They Apologized

[@baronmunchausen757]

How is this a proper apology?? Where's the interpretative dance? Where's the gaslighting? No cringe poems?

[@demetribaldwin]

ikr not even a ukulele, very disappointing

[@wolvie1618]

​@@demetribaldwin I demand ukulele, I can lend them mine

[@LeonBix]

Honestly though, i like the guys and im happy they realized their mistake

[@KadeNoMula]

@@LeonBix It's genuine not beating around the bush. How apologies should be, straightforward.

[@cabbitt]

No one is sitting on the floor or wearing white. I’m so disappointed.

[@Ghost51900_]

"Shane finally saw a ghost, the ghost of his career." This comment had me wheezing

[@emilyjades]

LMAOOO

[@MayorGoldieWilson825]

Wheezing? Do you have asthma?

[@Mt_BT]

This comment couldn't be more true.

[@Oxipvp]

@@MayorGoldieWilson825nah they got COPD

[@Peachu_n_Goma_Home]

​@@MayorGoldieWilson825 wheezing is like an inside joke from their buzzfeed days unsolved series

[@ManOfEthnicity]

They left buzzfeed and then made all the financial mistakes buzzfeed made. You don't HAVE to build elaborate sets, you don't HAVE to hire all your friends, you don't HAVE to constantly travel. There are bigger channels than them that are literally just a dude in a chair.

[@hydrogen3266]

But if they wanted to do that, they wouldn’t have started at Buzzfeed. It’s the same thing with the Try Guys imo, where they don’t just want to be content creators, and they don’t want to just be youtubers. They want to be media hosts/personalities and producers at their own independent production company, and youtube is just an easy way to build a fan base and get money from it. They all liked Buzzfeed, minus the lack of ownership over your work and quota system. But the Try Guys and Buzzfeed Unsolved were two of the biggest shows they ever made, so they definitely had better treatment than other staff members there. The only good transition (that I’ve seen) from Buzzfeed content into being a normal KZbinr is Safiya Nygaard, who has been pretty good at staying relevant by making fun content that often stays within a niche. She doesn’t let the jokes run old/stale, and she doesn’t make a parody out of herself. It’s a great incorporation of her real life with content, and she’s always been pretty entertaining. Her videos are also high quality while still feeling like she’s a creator, not just the host or the star personality of the video. Those kinds of things are what rub me the wrong way about Watcher and Try Guys

[@dudejuice]

Which is a poetic saying as Charles is a good example

[@merucrypoison296]

Yea I really hope they’re just terrible at managing their money rather than them just being greedy since I actually kinda care about those guys

[@isopodboy]

wendigooooonnnnn

[@thewhutnow5795]

You fail to realize that there are different approaches in content creation.

[@VFXcaronfire]

I would have paid $6 to see the absolute chaos crisis-mode the office must have been in the whole weekend

[@unidentifiedidentity-z2i]

Nice copy and paste

[@noway377]

I imagine a lot of pissing, shitting, and crying. 😂

[@lunamiku4166]

I bet $6 a lot of pointing who's fault this shit happened in their office Also gonna wagger that this definitely made their relationship with each other on thin ice

[@swiftlyjer-pdf]

delete this before they see it

[@noway377]

@@swiftlyjer-pdf delete it before they delete it first

[@HerHollyness]

You’re right about their ads. Their fan base has actually complimented them on their sponsored bits several times and said they watch them willingly because of how fun they are. I can’t believe they would find it hard to get sponsors at all.

[@adrianaheiler9794]

The ads on the last Mystery Files season maybe even got more compliments than the actual content, I saw loads of people getting really invested in them.

[@AnAngryFetus]

I love Professor Morris Ashley and his story. I want to see if he can find love after his time with his beautiful, estranged, Italian wife, Bianca Sophia.

[@vita_pulchra_est]

The way I look at it is that they want full control on whether or not the videos will be monetized or not. KZbin can at any time say "were changing the rules to monetization" and they wont have a say about the matter. Not to say their solution to this risk makes good sense for the audience.

[@Goblinboyo162]

@CleanserSquadSigma HEY EVERYONE this mf spelt asked wrong what a loser! Let’s all point and laugh at him!🫵🤣

[@showaker4755]

there are a few content creators who's ads are either too funny to skip or blend in pretty well to the skit they are doing. Ryan George's can be funny sometimes and Zach Star blends his with his skits.

[@gum884]

How far has society come that public figures acknowledging what they did wrong while apologizing is now a high standard for an apology

[@the.sketch.projekt8851]

Cause everyone is so numb to the fact that most people just ignore the criticism, double-down, attack the people critiquing, or just blatantly keep doing what they're doing that when someone actually realizes of their mistake, people think it's a needle in a haystack. Why? All we see if just the worst of the worst, so we just expect someone to be a scumbag.

[@sweetcherry7759]

Bc it’s the right thing to do and it shows they listened- and that’s kinda rare

[@mocapcow2933]

@@sweetcherry7759I mean if they didn’t listen, they would permanently stain their career. This is the bare minimum.

[@MFBloosh]

It's different with the Watcher guys. They're actually good dudes. Most people would've just ignored their fans. Lol.

[@ThatGuy-qp6dv]

R u new to KZbin?? Most apologies aren't apologies. They usually go on a counter attack and double down or shift blame 😂😂😂

[@TripleKrabbySupreme]

people LOVED the low quality shit. small office, old ass decorations, and blue and yellow text on a black screen? 10/10. it was so good cause their personalities not the quality (watcher had some bangers too ngl but they kinda ventured pretty far from the content i liked)

[@AC-th4ci]

Ikr?? I stuck with Watcher for maybe a year or two when they first started, but I lost interest in Puppet History when they killed off the professor (I think it came back but I just didn't care by that point), and I was growing out of the ghost hunting/true crime videos before they even left BUN. They never put out anything else that really grabbed me-- going through their channel now it just looks like a 2015 Buzzfeed reskin. That kind of content was fun when I was 17-18, but now I'm 26 and it's not for me lol.

[@niranjanrajesh1058]

Nothing compares to buzzfeed unsolved, especially pre covid buzzfeed unsolved. That period of unsolved was pure gold. So good. So entertaining. Two dudes talking, black screen. Just amazing

[@midnight1116]

I only watch Watcher for Shane and Ryan's mystery and ghost files.

[@Jessa8891]

This! Why do they need sets, videographers, etc? You can also get amazing quality on smartphones now. Spending all this money just to make the videos is ridiculous.

[@Tucan_Cam]

1000% agree

[@crispeggies]

they were at their best when it was just blue and yellow text on a screen. they really never needed more production value than that

[@Sheridan2LT]

Ikr?? That's when I watched them the most! I mean of course they had production value still, using stock images in a clever way, really good video editing etc., but they don't need an insanely high budget.

[@Robisquick]

I'm betting that the format didn't bring in new viewers enough or it got played out. Sure we have a nostalgia bias, but no matter how great the original style is, the appetites of the viewers, especially considering there are always new young kids coming onto youtube, there almost certainly has to be a refreshing element. Only in very very rare cases can one stay true to the same exact format and maintain for more than a couple years. But who knows. Hard to deconstruct and be sure

[@crispeggies]

@Robisquick im sure that flashier/higher production value videos made it easier to attract newer & younger viewers. if they never changed i know that i personally never would have complained

[@chelsear9483]

@@Robisquickactually they left because Unsolved was not allowing them to provide their own input into any of the videos and was making it harder and harder for them. They talked about it before. I do miss the text on the video but they might not be able to do that because it could be property of Unsolved.

[@ihswap]

Never heard of this channel. Is it like a spiritual successor to Buzzfeed's unsolved?

[@sierra7827]

saw a comment under the apology vid that said if they’re struggling this much to produce videos even with patreon, sponsors, merch, live shows, and everything else so much so that they felt like they needed to launch this separate subscription service in the first place, it’s not a matter of making more money, it’s a matter of spending less. this hits the nail on the head for me, so many ppl are saying they’re just there for the chemistry between shane and ryan and don’t care about production quality, and it seems like watcher either doesn’t know or doesn’t care about this and both their finances and their intentions with their content seem to be horribly misguided, like they don’t know what their audience is even there to see in the first place

[@idontwantahandlethough]

there's 100% some suits messing things up from behind the scenes, I guarantee it

[@helalakeoffire]

​@@idontwantahandlethoughagree!

[@carsongxd]

Your comment brings up a good point. If they’re struggling, they should ask for help in a more humane and compassionate way. Not push away the majority of their viewers by putting up a literal pay-WALL.

[@charlidvds3296]

Agree completely. If they need help financially they could come up with a new show and ask for crowd funding. The fan base would put money on anything as long as they get something out of it for not much… like buzzfeed unsolved was peak for me and although they were being funded it was cheaper than what they are doing now.

[@ihunt12903]

Democrats and progressives generally don't run successful businesses, the ones that do are lying and are conservatives 😂 so just like vice and buzzfeed these guys will fail no matter how much support they have or how many views they get . Democrats can mess up a wet dream . Shame the content is good , they just need a conservative to run the business .

[@thiccomniman]

No ukulele, apology declined.

[@anxietyonline1947]

Top comment.

[@ItsJustSeb]

Absolutely agree.

[@440-fishermandrock8]

That dude likes dudes 😂😂😂

[@bimapriambada1098]

It fell off massively tbh

[@anut8733]

Exactly

[@lilytran3414]

"really odd mismanagement" It's this one. Everything I've glimpsed from their behind the scenes makes it seem like they have no idea how to manage their money as a business and they aren't hiring anyone to do that. Ghost Files should not be taking six figures an episode to produce.

[@blademasterzero]

A correction from another comment. I’ve heard it’s actually only six figures a season instead, which while less is still a massive amount

[@davidlazerz8564]

@@blademasterzero If they are paying a living wage to a few people to work on it then that seems reasonable. If they are wasting 90% of it on extra shit then yea thats dumb.

[@Anne-fn4po]

​@@davidlazerz8564yeah the problem is it's not "a few" people that work on it but they have So Many employees (which can be seen listed in credit under videos), they really don't need that many at all or to spend so much on production/equipment

[@Ducks23]

⁠@@davidlazerz8564 a livable wage according to data and news articles for LA is 110k, which is insane. They said they have 25 ppl hired. At 110k that’s 2.75MM a year. Even if you drop the salary to 80k that’s 2MM a year. 25 employees on salary for a KZbin channel that produces 4-6 videos a month in ridiculous. That isn’t a few people. They are bloated and more than likely paying significantly more than similar roles at other companies. Their operating expenses are too high before you get into the rest of the balance sheet. They don’t know how to run a business. They need to drastically increase their revenue (which probably was the result of their original announcement) to keep their current staff, less people at current salary levels or cheaper labor. That should be the first step before they optimize their whole production to reduce costs.

[@nicka5040]

@@davidlazerz8564 They credited 17 people including a Gaffer/Lighting in a cheap Let's-play video and only put out on average a video a week. lol.

[@InfiniteAnvil]

You touched on what the community suspects is going on: mismanagement behind the scenes. Specifically, the impression we get is that they've hired too many people, and have wildly inflated production budgets. As an example: they've got a lets-play series called Survival Mode. How many people do you think need to be involved in making a lets-play series? There's two people on screen, plus an editor, plus to be generous maybe someone to handle the lights, cameras, and microphones. Four people tops, right? For their latest Survival Mode episode, on top of the 2 people on screen/playing the games, they had a director, producer, tech director, editor, post-production supervisor, production coordinator, gaffer, camera operator, sound mixer, PA, DIT, and assistant editor. That's 14 people working on one episode of a lets-play. (There were more people credited, but I'm limiting this to people who presumably had hands on producing *that episode*, unlike for example the logo designer, executive producers, head of development, and head of production.) Thanks to u/Shitfaced-Crusader on reddit who raised this to the greater community's attention

[@ferinzz]

PLEASE tell me it's at least the best let's play ever with dynamic lighting effects and multiple cameras and amazing editing that doesn't rely on the game itself. Because otherwise wtf is a director going to do? The game is the director. And I just went to look at it and it's the most basic shit ever...

[@jeongin6014]

@@ferinzz ur gonna hate this but the game is the main part along with shane and ryan joking about, theres some lighting changes throughout and some light editing here and there but literally no use for that many ppl 😭

[@wingdingdoes6687]

I'm all for creating new jobs,,,, but that's INSANE

[@Giawulf]

Thats insane. To put it in perspective...when Gametheory does their GTNotLive vids, aka their let's plays...they have a team of four: Matt on the couch as the host, Ash as cameraperson, audio tech, and co-host, an Editor in post-production, and I believe one additional audio/video tech person. GT is also a huge channel like Watchers, so the fact that Watchers is using a team of 14 people for a lets play vid whereas Game Theory, a channel of similar size, does it with a team of four is insane mismanagement on Watchers' part.

[@IrrelevantKoby]

I've seen higher production quality LPs done by just a single person and they were full LPs on top of that instead of just mostly one offs that Watcher was doing

[@SnacksFan]

I do fully believe that they are mismanaging their money and don’t know how to budget properly. None of these 3 guys know anything about running a business. Shane and Ryan fully backed out of their executive roles in the company to make Steven the sole CEO. And Steven, frankly, is the one whose content specifically revolved around buying, eating, and/or making very expensive food. From my perspective, he doesn’t have the best grasp on sound financial decision making. Honestly Charlie, you should get in contact with them and see what the hell is going on over at watcher hq 💀

[@tea9047]

yeah, like worth it was fine cause it was all off buzzfeed money but i don’t think he fully realizes that this isn’t buzzfeed anymore and the people aren’t gonna be happy with him eating gold and truffles in his tesla off viewers money 💀💀

[@Cattrix999]

lol, I've watched Shane and Ryan's content and if Steven has been involved in their content.. cool. But I have never watched anything Steven has produced. It just doesn't interest me.

[@dotdedo]

Honestly he could write off all that expensive food as a tax write off in the United States if it was in a monetized video. So if he’s smart enough to do that at least he’s getting a fat return every year which is even worse

[@intothepale3551]

I didn't realize Steven is now in charge, that explains a lot in a very worrying way.

[@moonbeams4999]

I'd pay money for Charlie and MatPat to drop in on Watcher to provide financial guidance like a reality show.

[@saga685]

One of the comments on their video stood out to me: “It was funny when you ate gold leaf ice cream on Buzzfeed’s dime, but it’s less funny when it’s our money” They wanted more money, plain and simple. These buzzfeed alumni are used to a cushier lifestyle, but someone else was supplying the money back then. Now they’re treating their fans like their former employer; an infinite cash cow.

[@j.artiste8596]

Fire everyone except Shane, Ryan and ONE cameraman. Go back to ghost hunting and storytelling (in a small studio). I will be sending them a bill for financial advice. 😂

[@Aceofspades2006]

If u can find the comment again but there @ cus you know credit. :)

[@sgt.lincolnosiris4111]

​@@Aceofspades2006this isn't high school. No one cares.

[@Van-ff6tq]

Best comment I’ve seen thus far

[@NoodleVerse]

To be fair it's been 5 years since they left buzzfeed so i doubt that they are still used to a cushier lifestyle at this point, this argument would've made sense if it was only a year after they left, but after 5 years i don't think it holds much water. Though was still a very surprising and very bad move from them, never would have thought that about them

[@jijitters]

The funny thing is, if they had just made a kickstarter or crowdfund and stated, "hey this is how much this show costs to make, please help us raise the money we need for the season and then we'll go do it" with direct promises of what that money was for, they would've easily hit targets, like no question, especially if it was Puppet History or Ghost Files related. Asking people to pay for a nebulous idea including content they don't want was the wrong move when they could've easily focused on direct funding to things they want.

[@Mr-Spood]

ZackM-sx7tccreep

[@booxwee3804]

ZackM-sx7tcThats kinda creepy..

[@charlieseen]

​@ZackM-sx7tc Brother, as a woman, if you start a sentence off with "Not to be a creep, but", whatever you're saying or typing should stay as an inside thought 😭

[@acookie7548]

wasn't one of the options after subscription being able to vote for which show to revive? from a list of shows that literally died the first time?

[@marandabolish]

You're right. If one of your shows is watching someone eat literal gold maybe people don't want to see that if it means they now have to pay to see the content people want to see.

[@muhammadryanelyeddari8631]

They should've posted the apology on the Watcher platform and put the preview on KZbin.

[@clarknelson5875]

Lol that's a good one

[@sharipn8348]

Bruh 💀

[@fork4207]

Imagine

[@craigmode]

That’s a baller move

[@Jonathan_Collins]

The comment section on Watcher's announcement was majestic. It turns out you either die an independent youtube channel or live long enough to see yourself become Buzzfeed again.

[@LeBimbo]

nice copy & paste

[@chrisrosado754]

Me when I steal someone else's comment for likes (stolen from Philip Defranco video)

[@rememberpickles]

Whoa. That's some truth.

[@elfinflame6244]

Or cheat on your wife with a coworkee

[@setsers1]

Yyyup

[@Ratlife04]

The fact that they also just hired more people for Steven's show but they say they worry about paying ,in Shane's wife's words, livable wages but are paying new people and are worried about the pay is wild to me, like how can you hire more people when yall are having trouble with the people you already have

[@JACpotatos]

They're just worried that they won't be able to keep their $1M salaries 😂

[@Kiterpuss]

I get the impression a lot of this fuss is specifically because of Steven and his own goals steamrolling the other guys. He took the lead in the original video announcement and some of the verbiage by Shane and Ryan in this apology feel VERY pointed. Lots of unspoken "I told you so."

[@sneakysnail9225]

Yeah with how big they were there's no way they couldn't pay their workers unless they were spending it on luxuries 💀💀💀

[@NightQueen01]

They wanted to bring on the guys from Worth It. Which Steven and Ryan wrote for Buzzfeed and was as successful, if not more successful than UnSolved. Hiring the two guys from that show would be worth it in my eyes specifically Andrew, he's very charismatic and has quite the following of his own. They could all make really good popular content together. They will make more money with Andrew and Adam, I just think they failed to realise they would need to make budget cuts else where to support the new talent.

[@masterdon187]

Welcome to the corporate world. my last company they kept delaying our pay rise for over 2 years saying lack of funds but kept hiring new people with higher salary. And what do you know they lost 7 of the original members within 6 months. Companies have the money but refuse to take a dip in profit for a better workplace

[@MINETURNNOWGamingRblxOnYT]

The funniest thing to me is that their patreon already existed at nearly the same price and we already got content early through it. This whole thing could've been avoided if they just upped the patreon price by one dollar, released ad-free content a month early rather than a day early, and advertised it more on their KZbin channel. And Patreon has a comment section so the community would be more engaged and still get to discuss new episodes as they come out.

[@Alittlefruitgoesalongway]

True, but through their own website they wouldn't have to share a cut of the money with Patreon

[@Freexnme]

@@Alittlefruitgoesalongway WatcherTV is on Vimeo, which costs $1 per subscriber.

[@pazz]

Yeah, but that way they wouldn't get BOTH income streams.

[@janelbbuck]

Buuut moooom, daaaad they want their own site 👶. Jokes aside, I get they really wanna own their media to the *bone.* But they really don’t NEED too yet. And honestly they can’t yet, the audience doesn’t want that.

[@KimbiW]

@@Alittlefruitgoesalongwaythe streaming is done through Vimeo. I’m sure they take some kind of cut

[@summy1300]

When they were describing Ghost Files costs thats when it clicked for me. I watched their supernatural on buzzfeed and was really enjoying it, but with watcher it didn't hit the same... thats probably because on buzzfeed they went in maybe couple of people and a few small cameras on tripod. You can tell ryan was actually scared there. I bet its less scary when you go into an abandoned building with crew of 15 people and lots of equipment. Didn't feel genuine for me anymore

[@mrsgunsage01]

Yeah I watched Ghost Files a few times but it wasn't as good as Unsolved. I actually hadn't even thought of them for a year or so until this hit.

[@oliviap.1370]

I think part of that is also that at the start of buzzfeed, he was a random dude who had no real experience with going into these haunted places. Exposure therapy is a real thing, overtime the more people are exposed to/experience their fears the less they're scared of them. He went from having no experience to being a bona-fide ghost hunter. Of course he's not as scared, he's been in dozens of haunted places by now.

[@summy1300]

@@oliviap.1370 yes, I agree, this also plays a big role in this. It's not realistic for everyone to continue with every episode like its their first. That's why it just doesn't hit the same

[@carno.5911]

Ryan is still actually scared often enough clearly, the cameras also seem to be often enough static ones that follow their moves & dont need the cameramen to stand behind it all the time, just to move it around. & they have the part where each one goes trough it all alone at the end now, in that ryan surely looks really scared.

[@carno.5911]

@@oliviap.1370 I am not a body-language expert like so many youtubers are allegedly, but he still looks clearly scared enough to me. Just not this almost paralysing irational making kind of scared all the time now, but stil at least 2 thirds of it.

[@gracefoster7587]

Charlie missed that they don’t have 3 tiers on Patreon, they actually have 4. The highest isn’t $25/month it’s ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH.

[@Nunyabisness86]

Omg who is rich enough in this economy to pay for that shit

[@weeklyfont]

no parasocial relationship that doesnt involve showing feet is worth half that much

[@nnnmmmable]

​@@Nunyabisness86A person who is rich enough. Seriously.

[@amberskies4187]

bro what-

[@km2766]

100?! I hope there is ejaculation.on video

[@cxsmikaiyo]

25 employees and not even one capable finance manager

[@monostonight]

there's just friends and family in that company. no finance manager

[@slickricky769]

its not so much the channel... they are living extravagant lives so they keep paying themselves a "liveable wage" you know one that enough to to host as couple 100k wedding

[@SonjaHamburg]

​@@monostonightfor their apology video alone, they credit like 2 directors of photography, a creative director, multiple editors, a production coordinator,... . That's not "i hire some friends&family". That is thinking they are a tv channel!

[@millawitt1882]

😂

[@monostonight]

@@SonjaHamburg and even all that for an apology video is crazy.

[@hannybee8975]

Even the demons that possess Shane knew they fucked up.

[@wiseguy1512]

Even the goat wanted his bridge back

[@Its_like_the_T-Rex]

Is it weird I read that in my inner Morgan Freeman voice.

[@katethevampire]

Guys the demons made them do this trust me 😰😰😰

[@peregrintook310]

My favorite comment from the og video was “maybe that fortune teller that told Ryan that he was going to die, meant his entire career…” 😂😂😂

[@LizLuvsCupcakes]

"Shane, you have stepped in it this time, you are ON YOUR OWN." "You can have your bridge back???" "Maybe someone will rent it from you for six dollars a month."

[@alisonmiller4071]

“We need to pay our employees a fair wage” *brings on two more people and starts up worth it again*

[@kaeyaliker]

it's insane to me that andrew and adam even agreed to join this whole mess... it makes me feel like steven/ryan/shane were so unaware about their audience's perception of them, they appeared confident enough for others to accept whatever offer they'd make i just can't wrap my mind around the fact that there were so many important figures in a room and everyone just agreed with the leaving youtube idea, like, no one said a thing??? specially andrew. dude always seemed to be so down to earth and idk? wise? lmfao it's just weird

[@caitchri2426]

“We need to pay our employees a fair wage.” *LIVES IN CALIFORNIA MAKING CONTENT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CALIFORNIA* Guys, just move your business somewhere more cost effective … your 1mil salaries would go much further literally 100miles east.

[@yubelwish]

​@caitchri2426 you're asking them to *gasp* make sacrifices and stay in budget?

[@caitchri2426]

@@yubelwish unspeakable horror

[@Jerrbearr0520]

Watcher: "We were going to lay off employees and we weren't going to survive if we didn't do this" Also Watcher: *continues to hire more people*

[@scourgehh714]

Have to understand though. New hires are often overworked and paid basically nothing, way cheaper than current employees

[@SleepWalker88]

Also Watcher: and in our apology video we’re gonna lie about our revenue

[@rosemadder5547]

For their "high quality".... Food shows? 😅

[@rosemadder5547]

​@@scourgehh714 and? Their profit is huge.

[@isaburntcake]

@@rosemadder5547 Literally!! I think they don’t know how to balance their finances and their wants. They are over staffed (25 ppl) imo and could easily do a lot of the work their staff does by using tech and some creativity. On top of that they want to have large budgets for their expensive shows and productions (like eating the most expensive food at XYZ type of stuff) when they don’t have to. They could change their content to cheaper stuff that might even be more relatable to the audience instead of trying out new fancy things. I think Watcher just wanted to do whatever they felt like and expected their audience to pay for it which was silly. If watcher was more creative and took more time with things (like slowly growing their staff and # of shows) they wouldn’t be in this financial rut and wouldn’t have had to release a new platform with a pay wall.

[@Karragh]

I still can't get behind "we weren't going to survive, we were going to have to lay off employees and eventually shutter without this pay wall", when they are also expanding by hiring two more, I'm sure expensive, on screen talents.

[@semperaugustus661]

It seems like it is their own fault. They grew too big too fast and are afraid to make the necessary changes because they don't want to fire anyone. So instead they are making everyone else pay for their mistake.

[@Bloodclatburner]

@@semperaugustus661 not that they grew too fast, they just want everything to be super high quality when thats not what we care about. We care about the personalities not the set of the shows or the animations. they seen to have this idea that more people equals higher quality which isnt true

[@niccolom4556]

God forbid they want to grow, huh?

[@Karragh]

@@niccolom4556 You have to have natural growth. If we take them at their word that the company is bleeding money and on the verge of shuttering and costing everyone their jobs it is an incredibly unwise and frankly selfish move to keep expanding rather then tightening things up and keeping your people employed.

[@vault_tec_404_4]

Not only did they hire 2 more on screen talent. They want to bring back the more expensive show of traveling and eating expensive food. Nothing about their announcement said “we need to stay afloat” all it said to me was “I want more”

[@kaelanniblett2460]

I'm so glad charlie brought up the fact that their content is super brand friendly, cuz that's like the first thing I thought when they were explaining their original decision. They're former buzzfeed employees, their content is pretty much as brand-friendly as you can get. So to act like getting brand deals was an issue hasn't made sense to me

[@zythe69akaru]

I could see maybe if they wanted to include more drunk content (idk KZbin's stance on that) or swear more, but yeah, most of their content is perfectly fine for advertisers...

[@msthecommentator2863]

Exactly, it's not like Dropout where they're drawing dongs every other episode and swearing like sailors. There's a need for an independent platform for content that YT will flag, but that never felt like the case for this group.

[@Blackjack1317]

That's what I thought. I guess you could call some of their topics not suitable for kids and their language isn't clean either, but over all, what's the problem. Or rather, what kind of content did they plan for the future, that couldn't be put on KZbin? What are they planning that could risk their "brand-saveness"?

[@Gabriellaella23]

@@msthecommentator2863 but I have to disagree. They do swear quite often and a lot of the stuff and jokes they make can be “inappropriate” for a younger audience. Especially when doing their true crime content their jokes can get pretty graphic . I am not sure where the family friend/clean comments are coming from. They also have a show where they try to get extremely drunk and often talk about Ryan being a stoner. Maybe they wanted to make more mature content where they don’t have to beat around the bush about things and watch what they speak about. Maybe have a stoner version or too many spirits without getting demonetized or having trouble finding a sponsor. I’m not saying they made the right decision with making their own platform, but saying their content is “clean/family friendly” is not completely true.

[@earthsfur]

It's also like.. completely possible to reach out to companies.

[@lillymae9637]

can’t believe they said they would have to end the channel if they didn’t do this??? there were A LOT of other options, cut your own salaries, fire some of your staff if necessary. their audience already throws TONS of money at them, they said it themselves, live shows merch patreon etc., it’s not the audience’s responsibility to pay your 25 employees. could’ve just made some necessary cut backs but instead greed took over and permanently damaged their brand. sad really.

[@Lozza685]

I agree fully there but just want to point out something. Customers going into a restaurant to eat are expected to pay waiters in America by way of tips. A waiter/servers salary from their employers is that small and pitiful that customers are expected to give the servers a tip. Isn’t what watcher asking of it’s fan base the same as what is expected of customers in a restaurant? My thought to your comment of it’s not the audience’s responsibility to pay their staff, it’s not a customers responsibility to pay a waiters wage either. It’s the employers,

[@lillymae9637]

@@Lozza685 i agree with you but unfortunately employers refuse to pay their servers a living wage, that’s the way it’s been for a long time i don’t see it changing any time soon

[@bcjfzoufljvlhfoyyf8860]

@@Lozza685what they’re doing is closer to having a meal served by a person that’s only slightly underpaid bc of seniority/popularity, getting ample tips(patreon) and now adding an automatic tip onto your check on top of it all. i have no problem tipping but we patrons shouldn’t have to pay for more than just our meal to ensure their server made enough money to buy their own. and on top of that when a person just adds a tip for me to give them that leaves a very bitter taste. Watcher is now expecting and demanding viewers to pay for ANY of their new content, which is so much more entitled than just having a patreon where supporters CHOOSE to further support you and often get a special thank you video.

[@lunawenko9324]

they made a severe and continuous lapse in their judgement

[@Noah73827]

They do not expect to be forgiven.

[@Ilovedallthepeople]

Thankfully it was a one time kind of thing and they fixed it in like two days lol

[@Anomandaris]

nice

[@vampqueen182]

lollll omg whose apology video is this from

[@lessthanthreemetal]

​@@vampqueen182Logan Paul

[@mn9946]

When Smosh was going down, they literally sold their company in order to provide free entertainment to their fans while still being able to do what they wanted creatively. I think it's frustrating that their first thought was not to get a financial manager, business manager, even a damn media/marketing manager or look within their company to see what they could do but rather impose it on their fans. Saying we're taking away all your content if you don't pay us is wildly horrible marketing strategy to introduce a new product.

[@MoHaziq93]

Smosh is such a good example. They have way more mouths to feed and much lesser views during that era. They survived without paywalling and now became bigger than ever before.

[@kieira]

Because Steven's tesla isnt going to paid itself, or you know...Steven's lets go eat to the most expensive restaurant we can find and make a video of me eating a 1000 dollars hamburger, for the channel of course. Also, who has extra money to hire a financial manager or a business manager? Steven first needs to hire his buddies from back of Buzzfeed to work on his lets eat expensive food show.

[@RoeBoats]

the best example I've come across so far. Big props to smosh for not giving up and always trying to keep their fans happy. Now I'm even more bothered by the whole Watcher situation considering what Smosh went through.

[@Alex-sl1hm]

I was wondering if they were going through something similar to smosh. Perhaps they already sold watcher and are owned by a scammy company or already have a manager who is taking way more than their fair share(?) That's the only way I can see their maths making sense...

[@VIXVIIIMCMXCVII]

Smosh fucking sucks though

[@mckrackin5324]

Their "Goodbye" video basically described their viewership as negligible and inconsequential. Not what I'd call good marketing. Also, I think them talking about their $250K wedding and honeymoon before crying about needing more money was very ill advised.

[@rs-mt6kl]

Wait who's wedding?👀👀

[@chloeapples]

⁠@@rs-mt6kli think it’s Shane’s? But also steven just got married so it might be that! But both weddings were insanely expensive (no one needs three dresses for one day XD)

[@Chris_Cross]

Are those three married to each other?!?

[@madsfiedler3884]

​@@Chris_Crossno?

[@madsfiedler3884]

​@@chloeapples depends on culture, but at least for modern us weddings a lot of brides have 2 dresses or a changeable dress

[@HarperNell]

I think they shot themselves in the foot pretty badly here. One of the things that separated Watcher from other KZbinrs or entertainment ventures was their extremely loyal and active fanbase. If the situation was that they needed money right now or the channel would shut down, they genuinely could've just asked the fanbase point blank and the fans would've been there. Now, no matter how loyal the fans were originally, there's always gonna be a bad taste left in your mouth when you think of the company.

[@madisontutone9810]

That is exactly how I feel! Like I don’t watch every video but even id try and chip in if they just flat out asked and I own multiple pieces of merch too. But like even with this apology being good I just can’t look at them the same

[@Just_Reading_Comments]

Maybe if they weren’t spending ~$250,000 on a wedding and other extravagances they wouldn’t need to try and milk their fanbase for more money.

[@maryhough8041]

Exactly, a simple “hey, wanna donate so we can work on production value?” Woulda sufficed.

[@KampungBaru5dl2drZDF]

I think they need to hire a CEO with legitimate experience. This has been a disaster and 100% could've been avoided with more oversight and business acumen.

[@_boogatti_]

Apparently up until recently they were doing fine with Steven as the head, especially at the start. They did videos around the process of making their company. But I suppose reviving his old content of traveling and eating expensive stuff threw a wrench in the machine.

[@RazielDeTam]

I guess, they actually hired a CEO, and that's his genius Idea

[@GlacialScion]

"Business acumen" is how you get decisions like this in the first place.

[@LostMane]

@@GlacialScion facts

[@ApoloniaJones1976]

@@RazielDeTamSteven Lim is their CEO. In terms of business acumen, he is a ten year old in a 33 year old’s body.

[@williamdixon-gk2sk]

It sounds like they got greedy, over-played thier hand, and the public as a whole called their Bluff.

[@carsongxd]

Yup

[@camjacob8876]

I blame the guy on the left he’s the ceo

[@carsongxd]

@@camjacob8876 they’re all bad can we just stop acting like one of them is better or worse than the other? Again, they’re all bad.

[@chasehorton2324]

Why are people so butthurt about it though, paramount+, Netflix, Hulu, hbo max all cost money, twitch subs, but they crossed the line by wanting people to pay a monthly subscription for content?

[@kkoyyyy484]

What if they were genuinely sorry? We get it, you like drama. You like it when someone famous goes under because its a guarantee ego booster. But these guys were sorry and generally cares for their fans.

[@MarvelSonicFan04]

Maybe they need a ukulele

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

@@Austin_Jason nerd

[@Ravensbro04]

Or an interpretive dance while narrating their apology

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

@PWRGEUTTP nerd

[@jetanimations]

Maybe sing about it

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

@FREEROBUXATMYBIO-qq8gs nerd

[@IrisCorven]

Imagine if they paywalled the apology. That would have been galaxy brain tier.

[@martinmcwilliams]

Linus ltt levels of not reading room if they did that lol

[@monostonight]

they actually did that on patreon when the one on the left admitted to being friends with people that are "kinda racist and homophobic"

[@ryckarduhryckarduh180]

gotta love the "Im talking from my heart although its clear Im reading a strategically planned speech" vibe

[@IvyHale151]

An apology made out of obligation isn't sincere.

[@aaronstevens5325]

@@IvyHale151wtf would a sincere apology look like then? people like you really confuse me.

[@rajput36000]

@@IvyHale151they don’t owe you anything

[@evilalan2084]

​@@aaronstevens5325 First off, not doing something scummy like this knowing full well is wrong. Now since it has impacted them negatively they're obligated to apologize. Not because they want to, but because they have to

[@divaofthedamned365]

@@IvyHale151 All apologies are made out of obligations. You're obligated to apologize to the wronged party for whatever you've done to wrong them. Doesn't matter how you feel about the person, it's what's supposed to be done regardless.

[@burlyzulu]

"My bad bro, can we have your money now?"

[@sarahm3674]

pretty much

[@carsongxd]

“Did we do good? Money, please?”

[@malhare6501]

It's so pathetic that people are actually buying it lol

[@Prince-pk4fi]

Be honest though, how could they have improved their apology even further? They apologized sincerely, took accountability, and directly fixed pretty much the main issue people had with their move while still trying to save face financially. Are they just irredeemable to yall?

[@leafio4190]

@@Prince-pk4fiI think if they just didn’t claim that they were running out of money it would be way better

[@DeadlyAdvocate]

It's important to note that all of this has come out a week before a massive live show in London.

[@m_here1]

No one has mentioned this. Oh my god. They’re doing another live show and still need this streaming service???

[@qxevtnu1879]

@@m_here1 live shows are hard to judge without actual numbers. Cost to the venue, paying staff, renting equipment, transporting merch can all be more than you'd think. From what I've gathered, unless you're a major artist or something in that nature, live shows can be a loss leader. It still rings true for a lot of esports. LCS is one of the most popular video game events that happens and is still a loss leader, but it promotes and commercializes so its seen as good regardless. OWL is also not profitable. Hell Charlie himself has claimed that Moist Esports isn't profitable. At most they likely get 5-15% profit.

[@Karl.Jayce-DE]

Greed

[@aimeeh2079]

Dude no way I want to know how that live show goes after this 💀

[@mariac4127]

This reminds me of when the fine bros tried to trademark the word “react.” It showed that they were completely out of touch with their audience and now it’s how people remember them. I doubt people will just forget this.

[@caylei9967]

I forgot about them actually (fine bros)

[@kevray]

People will forget when the next Shane and Ryan video drops. Calling it now. There’s already people that don’t blame them even though they are a massive part of the watcher brand and undoubtedly had a big say in this decision

[@legitdetective5594]

I'm sorry, but the whole situation felt like a fever dream. I mean, Shane "eat the rich" Madej making a KZbin apology over such a topic? Yeah, never in a million years did I see this coming as a long time viewer since Buzzfeed Unsolved

[@billbill6094]

And the rich was sitting on the left.

[@fangsbrokenrose]

It’s eat the rich until you’re rich apparently 🫠

[@Carmn07]

@@fangsbrokenrosesaltburn effect

[@the_real_cookiez]

Buzzfeed people doing Buzzfeed things LMAO

[@CantTellYou]

14:24 Shane’s expression says a lot 😂 Like someone else said, I imagine he & maybe Ryan had a few “told ya so Stevens” yelled out after

[@marastruck]

I did NOT expect them to apologise lmao

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

@itz_me_beautiful_devil_21 nerd

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

nerd

[@years-ti7xl]

At least they did and at least it's better than most apology vids.

[@pablopablo3834]

They had to or they all lose their jobs lmao. They make the easiest content ever for dumb people yet those troglodytes are even smart enough to know when they are getting fucked over.

[@BigDaddyDelliott]

@itz_me_beautiful_devil_21what

[@reaganb6013]

the thing that has bugged me the most during this whole situation is shane's wife's tumblr post. she said something about how it's hard to pay people fairly and also make a survivable wage. girl... your wedding venue alone cost $50k and you wore THREE DIFFERENT wedding dresses. last week you posted about a $100 TOTE BAG you bought. don't pretend you're struggling or barely making a "survivable wage" edit: I'm not saying she can't spend her money how she wants to. I just think it's annoying when rich ppl act like they are struggling financially

[@Maplebear1203]

Not to mention his wife doesn't work none of that money was her own it was watcher money she just wants people to keep paying for her expensive tastes while she gets to sit home and do half assed art

[@littlelilac901]

Where are you seeing the three wedding dresses? I’ve only seen one and a shorter dress she wore at her reception.

[@EazyDuz18]

Poor

[@windws7137]

After that story addition no wonder, this pay to play strategy was brought so that their wives could buy a gucci purse😂

[@arielbeck]

Rather knowing how to manage your funds the right way 🫢

[@davidsantiagotate7380]

I work on independent films that can get really high production value with just a small fraction of the budget watcher has. I call total BS on their excuse that they need more money in order to provide that quality. What I’m seeing is a huge mismanagement of funds and resources. They need to cut back on the ridiculous amount of money they’re spending before they start asking for more.

[@wolfgangwaxlobster3046]

Greed. Greed is the word you’re looking for

[@ARTSONICFAN990]

Watcher: *Adds a Paywall to their KZbin channel.* EA: Look what their doing to imitate a fraction of our power.

[@kesterlimpo4854]

Think!

[@geneticallyengineeredcatgirl]

I cried alot as a kid because I couldn't use any of my game codes again from the games I bought physically. Literally didn't get to play them just found out I needed a new SD card after installing them then EA NEVER let me use my expensive ass games again.

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

@PWRGEUTTP nerd

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

@FREEROBUXATMYBIO-qq8gs nerd

[@TempestLich]

​@PWRGEUTTPyou are nothing

[@TabascoJones1]

"obviously we weren't sneaky enough in the way we asked for money, but we'll hit the drawing board and make it less obvious"

[@jaydelicioso]

That’s literally what I understood from this message. And I don’t know how Charlie didn’t touch upon that.

[@KillerSkullX]

This

[@masterchiefofhalo4525]

Correct!

[@codyeaster290]

@@jaydelicioso Because Charlies is human and as a human, he is sometimes dumb enough to miss details, important as they are.

[@king_supreme1102]

Oh no, the people providing a service want your money for it. What is this blasphemy?

[@Skittyscooter]

I’m SO glad they apologized. Everyone needs to take a book out of the sonic movie and LISTEN TO THEIR AUDIENCE

[@whatswiththisnewhandlesthing]

There should be a scale from the Saints Row Reboot to the Sonic Movie to categorise how to handle that shit

[@lightseyedea763]

​@@whatswiththisnewhandlesthinggod don't remind me of the SR reboot... one of my favorite series man

[@stinkybumwhole2653]

That was a fake out to draw attention to the movie

[@Woter_X]

You should not be needing an apology from the Internet. Like seriously what is wrong with you? I think you need to put your phone down and get in touch with actual human beings. Anybody who is needing an apology from somebody on a free platform is completely out of touch.

[@winstonwilkerson7094]

Page out of the sonic movie*

[@AgentZombieMan]

The thing with the $6, is that it legitimately ISN'T that much, that's 1 cup of coffee a month. But the problem is that there is already 500 other services who are begging for $5-10 a month, INCLUDING THEM WITH THEIR PATREON. If they were one of 4 services in the world asking for a $6 sub, that would be one thing, but since it's one of so many (and again, they already had a different subscription that they asked people to partake in) that left such the bad taste.

[@ramseyzev5179]

and they completely forgot about conversion for outside rhe us. a fan from the Philippines on the goodbye video said $6 usd is more than a day and a half of normal wages there

[@kristin123a]

If they at least made a deal or shared service with like 3-4 other channels it could've made sense, but did they really expect to earn big bucks from this? Would't it be better to make the prices on patreon higher or smt? Or even ask for direct donations? Or sell each episode for like $1?

[@theflyingdutchguy9870]

you buy $6 cups of coffee?!?!? i doubt a cup of coffee i drink costs less than 1

[@blandcoffeeamv4107]

​@@ramseyzev5179So, so, so true! My husband earned 400€ a month (conversion rates between Euro and Dollar are not that crazy) which could provide for a family of 4! Imagine more than 10% of your wage go to that! When you can feed so many people on your wage.

[@mirandoromero]

Minimum wage in my state is $7. I make $15 at a really good job. They're asking for an hour of work for some people

[@loulagman]

What gave me the biggest ick was the moral attachment of people’s finances and fair wages (see Sarah’s post). Why is it on the audience to pay fair wages to the employees? Meanwhile Steven drives a Tesla (mentioned in a Watcher podcast), flies out to Korea to eat good food, and let’s not forget how expensive many Dish Granted episodes. Yes, lay-offs suck, but if pay equity is such a priority (as it should), then why add 2 more employees for a new fancy show? Why expand so quickly if it can’t be done sustainably? Another thing of note is that some of the most viewed content seemed not as costly to produce, literally done in a backyard or virtually (Too Many Spirits and Are You Scared?). I was a die-hard Buzzfeed Unsolved fan in my broke college days, and was a die-hard Watcher fan until that goodbye announcement. It honestly feels weird to continue supporting them knowing that their finances are likely being mismanaged to the point of fair wages being at risk

[@froggylover666]

They literally discussed tips on pod watcher a while ago and were agreeing that it shouldn’t be the consumers job to pay servers livable wages. Ironic

[@Splat-25]

Completely agree. Someone nailed it on their video. Steven is money hungry. Ryan is fame and growth hungry and Shane went along with it because he had no choice.

[@froggylover666]

@@Splat-25 see I want to believe shane was against it but like…. Why would his wife make that post then :/

[@stolenrelic]

​@@froggylover666It's possible his wife drank the corporate growth kool aid more than he did. She's a highly influential and highly paid member of that company, too. But it's truly impossible to know anything for sure.

[@Dimsrose]

They literally didn't read the room at all. This doesn't sound like a problem that they need to throw more money at. It sounds like a problem with controlling their money outflow.

[@Lactose_intolerant791]

Watcher literally got sponsored by the state of Washington, it's crazy that a channel with a sponsor like that is saying that they are unsuccessful on a platform and would otherwise close down if they didn't launch their own streaming service

[@Ilovedallthepeople]

The interesting thing is that the video you are talking about was incredibly censored and restricted precisely because it was sponsored by the State of Washington so it had to fit certain guidelines and standards. I understand why would an artist want to figure out different ways of founding so they dont have to rely in that. Obviously this wasnt the right way tho.

[@samanthaho7713]

They had an entire episode sponsored by Disney 😅 to promote the Haunted Mansion movie

[@anyataylorsad]

@@samanthaho7713that’s actually insane

[@CardSharkPNW]

I’m sorry, what?! My tax dollars are paying for what?!

[@WhisperingMoon83]

They were also sponsored by the state of Montana, that was the first episode of the last season at the Missouri State Penitentiary

[@krumpits]

Really feels like they pay themselves too much and dont wanna cut it back when needed

[@IronWangCreates]

I don’t even think it’s that, i think it’s putting the content before the income. They started Watcher with these phenomenally detailed sets, all the graphics and in house art etc. They talk about wanting to produce to/Netflix quality work. But instead of starting out with work they can afford, like the Try Guys did, they’re making content as if they have that Netflix budget and then expecting the money to come after. They should have started with simple backdrops or home made sets, a skeleton crew and people multiple roles on set. Instead, it sounds like they massively overspent on production above their income, and then were surprised when the money didn’t suddenly increase. Doesn’t help that they had a bump during Covid where more people were watching, and Covid regulations almost forced productions to be low budget with minimal crew.

[@haloimplant7678]

Hired a bunch of people too. 25 people is a lot of salaries to pay for a youtube channel. Charlie threw out 500k as a crazy cost for a video but if a video takes 2+ weeks it could be 100k+ salary right off the bat.

[@Crystalised24]

As someone who works in market research, it’s absolutely BAFFLING to me that they didn’t poll their audience on this idea first. It seems like the way the “goodbye KZbin” video was led up to and the entire concept of that video was very insincere and not transparent, which left people feeling ambushed and then thrown away. If they had asked their patreon members and their KZbin audience what they thought about a potential streaming service, they could’ve gauged the audience reaction and also introduced everyone to the idea in a more gradual way, but instead they hit everyone with it out of left field once the decision had already been made. Especially when they’ve created a community that feels a close personal connection to them, it really feels like a betrayal to leave them out of decisions like this. I just want to know if they consulted with a professional about this move or did it on their own, cause they either need a refund or to hire a pro lmfao

[@morfy2581]

They wanted to jump in the sudden goodbye train, joining MatPat and TomScott.

[@CJ-ht4rf]

And now we wait for the video where they find out Steven has been embezzling money

[@danner253]

Maybe if his stupid show was cancelled they could run. I like Ryan and Shane but I can't fucking stand him and his shallow show.

[@soapa4279]

Coffeezilla: *Breathes heavily*

[@cic3000]

steven has gotta go if shane and Ryan are going to have a chance

[@PRAYERS4KIRBY]

I've never seen a money hungry and overall shitty steven in my LIFE😭

[@mrsurge4789]

I legit joked about this possibility to myself earlier but I genuinely would not be surprised. The guy makes all the financial decisions apparently and he’s the CEO who gets the final say. This whole idea has his name written all over it

[@zoeebo]

If this wasn’t driven by greed, they desperately need a better accountant. 😅

[@erodac]

Bet they did have a CEO BRO sillicon valley make his decision for them. "Yo dudes, this gonna be awesome -trust me!"

[@aaaaaa-wd3eb]

@@erodac One of the guys on the couch is the CEO. The guy who did the cheap vs expensive food videos. He has no business experience at all, neither do anyone else at their company

[@vanessac1721]

Ryan is CFO. Its on their company charter papers. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 let's stop laying all the blame on Steven as CEO.

[@bizmonkey007]

They were probably looking for a more stable source of revenue. People forget that KZbin can be a cruel platform that makes sudden changes that can dramatically affect how much money creators make (look at the cussing rule it implemented recently). I don’t think greed was a factor at all, but I do think they grew too big and perhaps need to consider scaling back production. The Watcher production quality has been excellent but that’s not really why people tune in

[@easyadventurer]

“We can’t keep this type of content on YT” “Okay, so we will keep this content on YT, just a month late”

[@acleanpairofsocks]

😆yup. Plus, idk man, everyone else seems to be able to keep their content on YT, so it sounds like an issue on your end.

[@nuyynuyy]

Other channels already do this shit. You guys are just throwing a hissy fit because your relatable KZbin want to get paid for it lol. They're stupid doe announcing it

[@Maplebear1203]

@@nuyynuyy they ARE getting paid though patreon, merch, live show tickets with ad cents and sponsors it's not a making money issue it's a irresponsible spending issue

[@Sahasrahla.]

With this method they aren't as exposed to risk when their videos get demonetized. They talk about murder and sex and rape all the time, thankfully without bleeping or annoyingly muting them out, other channels won't even say those words for fear of getting demonetized. If you're only posting one or two big videos per week it takes a huge chunk of the revenue if it gets flagged.

[@DHell-n8i]

@@Maplebear1203 patreon has a tax, merch is barely sold, they don't have many live shows, sponsors hardly reaches out to them and sometimes sponsors doesn't give money but rather benefits.

[@bellastroscio8274]

The way you can CLEARLY tell they made Steven read the bit about insensitivity around the cost and he didn’t want to 😭

[@cici7051]

Why? Can you explain please I don’t get it

[@ddr1706]

Me neither

[@xNSHD]

@@cici7051 look how hes saying it and watch his eyes. hes reading it from a script and it has multiple cuts for something so short. couldnt even get it in one take its that hard to say for him. most of these youtubers are the same. act like your friend get greedy and then fall from grace.

[@Sotebolikurac]

@@ddr1706 He did sound ingeniune when talking about it, like he was reading a script.

[@robinmitchells]

They have all these revenue streams already, plus they have a mascot, the Professor, who they’ve been heavily-underutilizing in merch, especially compared to how much the audience loves him and constantly asks for merch of him. As someone on tiktok pointed out, none of this would have happened if they had instead went “hey we’re starting up a $6 a month sticker club where every month you get sent a different sticker of the Professor”, and they’d be rolling in money right now. Plus it would probably be a lot cheaper on the backend so they’d end up with even more profits than if the streaming service had worked out for them.

[@sdrawkcabemdaer5]

Honestly their merch has always been understocked/under -exploited. Every time I've WANTED to buy something from them they've seen sold out in multiple sizes. And there are so many more merch opportunities they haven't pursued. I'm sure it's not cheap to produce, but they aren't charging cheap prices either and they seemed to have a pretty no-risk market for it since they consistently sell out.

[@ghostlyhousehorrors]

​​​​​@@sdrawkcabemdaer5honestly the sticker idea is really great. Besides even a good quality consumer level vinyl sticker maker would be very cheap for a company like them to buy. For company like them, stickers would be inexpensive to make and ship. They can still get the $6 dollars from many people and people can get cool stickers every month. I've seen other channels that do monthly pins and stickers, people that support them monthly get the merches for free or in a discount. Those decisions are often very well received by the audience in those channels. Another thing they can have someone really talented in the staff to make designs OR make a contest with fans submitting their designs as potential stickers. There are many talented and creative fans and a submission contest is a great way to have your fans engaged. People would love to see their or their peers designs shared. Later in the future if they ever get big enough and the risks is more financially viable THEN they can think about making their own platform like DropOut did.

[@burlyzulu]

Who tf wants a sticker for 6 dollars a month?

[@lostinlumiosecity]

@@burlyzuluto be fair sticker clubs send out more than 1 sticker lmao. the stickers r custom made and can’t be purchased anywhere else, so i can see why someone would want to pay for that. it’s a fun idea

[@ghostlyhousehorrors]

​​@@burlyzuluDude it's optional, personally I don't care much for stickers but maybe some fans who have a lot of money or some patreon supporters wouldn't mind $6 dollar monthly merch, hell it doesn't have to be stickers nor a expensive to produce hoodie. I've seen other KZbin channels do something similar offered on patreon or something in that vein, and most of the audience don't mind. Those who are interested can opt in and those who can't afford nor interested can still enjoy content. One of the biggest gripes with subscription service is that it's all temporary and whether people's favourite content continue to remain is all due to chance. With merch you keep paying but you OWN something atleast. This is just my 2 cents. You can disagree its alright with me

[@McCheeseincakes]

Here's what Shane Madej's wife said about this issue over on her Tumblr: "I get people don't like to pay for things that were once free, but paying people fairly and making a survivable living while making cool things is HARD." - Sara Rubin I'm sorry but If you're already having trouble sustaining the money that's coming in from this project then that's an issue in your camp. There's people working two separate 40 hour a week jobs barely making a "survivable living", It just sounds like they are living above their means.

[@M4jorToM23]

This is the same woman who in the post DIRECTLY BEFORE THIS ONE, showcased that she bought a $115 Tote Bag. Oh, and spent an estimated $55k on the wedding. But sure, pop off about "survivable" wages

[@Malphas38th]

And also why are WE supposed to giving them the paycheck? Shouldn’t that be the company or KZbin? She’s pointing her finger in the wrong direction

[@CoRLex-jh5vx]

​@@M4jorToM23more than 55k. 55k was the venue alone

[@caleighhraee]

Exactly. I saw a video recently of this girl talking about how her and her husband live on one source of income and her first advice was “don’t buy a new car, get a used one” like yeah as if all of us poors have luxury new Lexus 😂 if they live in California they are definitely living above their means and they feel entitled to it. Girls don’t NEED to get their hair colored and cut by an expensive hair dresser. They don’t need to get their nails done. They don’t need to wear the newest clothes or have expensive handbags. I bring a $30 backpack to work everyday, and I bought it 4 years ago. I don’t eat lunch to save money dawg 😂 sometimes I just drink water to feel full lmao

[@Drip-Soup373]

​@@caleighhraeeachieve inner piece and you could survive on nothing but a single drop of dew for a few years. Just like the dragon warrior.

[@kendallwest5705]

As somebody who loved watcher before this happened, I just can’t go back and support them the same way that I used to. The mindset the main characters (Ryan and Shane) have had in the past was the “eat the rich” mentality and then for them to turn around and go “yeah we need more money so we can travel and eat expensive food.” It just left a sour taste that the apology didn’t take out.

[@Matt-bp5vy]

It's always like this. There's a reason why every single time humanity tried communism it ended with a tragedy

[@abdulsabri6551]

I'm pretty sure, though I might be wrong, but didn't Shane and Ryan step down from CEO, so it would just be Steven.

[@mrrockets32]

You mean to pay employees not vacations

[@Podcast-Clipz324]

@@mrrockets32they don’t need more money to pay their employees especially since they’re easily supported by ads

[@timc6669]

Not that big a deal in my opinion, they just made an ill informed decision, didn't hurt anyone, didn't affect anyone, no harm done. Just a stupid mistake.

[@itstrash_pigeon5304]

Watcher: “We are going through financial strive, thus we need more money from our fans!!!” Also Watcher: *hires two people to continue a series which causes major financial costs, to reboot a show that had its own channel that flopped due to lack of funds…* 🤔🤔🤔

[@Crystalised24]

This is what I feel like a lot of people aren’t connecting, like they make this announcement as soon as they hire on the two guys associated with making content that involves buying the most expensive food/service and it’s just a coincidence?? Seems a lil fishy

[@IanSmith2814]

Saying they would have to lay people off or shut down seems like a real shady tactic. Trying to make the audience feel bad for questioning them.

[@Blaquebarbgamer]

Shiiii all of us are struggling, I was like join the club.

[@billbill6094]

Or it could just be the truth, if you go into every situation thinking an explanation is just a sympathy garnering tactic then the whole world will seem like a bunch of manipulative cunts.

[@princesssookeh]

Good thing it doesn't seem to be working. Most are accepting of the apology but still are asking how the hell they allegedly ended up in such bad shape.

[@midgematic8659]

Honestly Im completely turned off by Watcher now, the facade is broken with this sht and that language has caused me to just see these three dudes as greedy corporate faces now. Any of their business problems are completely on them as a business, if they dont make content that the public enjoys or watches, thats on THEM to produce content thats viable. And that wasn’t even a problem with their channel; people genuinely enjoy them! But their poor ass business decisions and “tv quality” obsession with videos lead them t9 this point. If they want to do tv, they should put their asses into hollywood, except they won’t because they’d be at the bottom all over again and they already have a large yt audience. As we have seen throughout the years, youtube IS NOT television programming. I’m sorry for being so fired up about stupid drama, but I’m actually disgusted with these guys. I used to love watching them; but they’ve became what they were running from. Just Buzzfeed but in different font.

[@michaelka3071]

its a common reason believe it or not, bad stuff comes out when something goes wrong and clearly they needed to give a reasonable reason on what they did, its not only for people to feel "bad" for them its also to assure people that they made a mistake due to this "reason" that they gave, if they gave a reason that isnt acceptable they would dig a deeper hole on what they already dug it would be a dumber decision up top a dumb decision. so if you made a dumb decision in the future and dont want to look even dumber dont halfass your reasons

[@DannyBoo242]

I love how they out Shane in the middle because they know we trusted him the most

[@ruralmetalhead]

His wife's opinions on the matter actually made me trust him less, tbh. I don't think he was as uninvolved as people seem to think.

[@iiastridii]

@@ruralmetalhead omg what opinions? 👀

[@RyuKyu.77]

​@@ruralmetalheadmf spill, don't just leave us looking for her Twitter

[@rs-mt6kl]

Yooo tea?? So people still say that?? Either way I want it ​@@ruralmetalhead

[@ruralmetalhead]

@@RyuKyu.77 She had a little pretentious guilt trip moment on her tumblr implying people who didn't want to pay for WatcherTV didn't want to pay workers livable wages or something along those lines. The funny part about it is, her and Shane's wedding was apparently in the $250,000 range, and she wore THREE DIFFERENT wedding dresses. In one day. So her post comes of VERY out-of-touch and preachy.

[@ohhello937]

There has to be mis-management of funds. They mentioned they hire freelance people when going on location. Why? You have 25 employees. What are they doing and why aren't they going to help shoot? They frequently just post 1 video a week but they have 25 people. Where is all the content? As a viewer I've wondered this for a while. One of their wives complained on her Tumblr that they just wanted a "survivable" wage like they can't eat or something AFTER posting about a luxury $125 purse she bought.

[@kirkhendsbee2192]

I think we can assume the freelancers are locals to the shooting locations, and therefore WatcherE saves money on flights and accommodations they'd otherwise have to pay for their LA staff. Really, the only people travelling should be the hosts and possibly the producer. Why we need all of this travel is the real question. The travel episodes of Unsolved and True Crime were always my least favorite.

[@petiteange08]

Like @@kirkhendsbee2192 mentioned above, I think they are saving money by hiring local freelancers, therefore no flights/food/accommodations. However, this means that they likely don't need a staff of 25 employees. Just hire locals when going on location, and most of their shows when staying in LA don't need 25 people to produce from what I see in the comment sections. For the few times when they do need more staff, they can just hire ad hoc. They can also move base to lower the production cost if a living wage is their concern.

[@HH-le1vi]

I've never seen a luxury purse sell for that cheap.

[@ohhello937]

@@HH-le1vi Maybe she got it cheap who knows? Spending $125 or more on a purse isn't the normal for a lot of people.

[@BigSuzpekt]

I don't get why a youtube company need that many employees, especially when they aren't releasing a lot of videos a week. I think they could survive on half the amount of employees. I think they are trying to run their youtube channel like it's a big filming company where they have one employee doing one thing for each role that is required when filming instead of condensing roles and having an employee do more than one job. I wouldn't be surprised if they are running in the negatives and not making money. 25 employees is a big payroll in the books for a youtube channel their size. But their way of going about things just backfired and this might be the beginning of the end for their youtube channel unless they make drastic cuts to free funds. But yeah you're right, i think they are not using their funds properly.

[@kirkschwarz]

2 things people: 1. Don’t spend more than you earn. 2. Don’t think you’re bigger than KZbin - there’s thousands of stories out there… but millions of others who can tell them.

[@hydrogen3266]

Right. If you can’t make the content because you can’t afford it, don’t make it. Their fans would rather see them make something of lower production value than feel abandoned or forced to pay them a subscription for their content

[@snaggiz]

Looking at it from a business perspective, it’s really bizarre that they couldn’t find any other way to cut down their costs? None whatsoever? You’re running a pretty risky business if you have to make the choice of A) pissing off your entire following or B) go under. There has to be a middle ground. They apologized and did so pretty well, but they’ve really gotta reconsider how they run that business if the margins are that thin. Not to mention the breach of trust here from their long time fans.

[@Venya9]

100% agree. If their business is actually doing as poorly as they said with so many revenue streams already they actually needed to look at how they're running the business and not try to make their audience pay more.

[@TwiggyHetfield27]

"It's really bizarre that they couldn't find any other way to cut down their costs" Maybe not spend 250k on a wedding? Just a thought. Lol

[@Junnie7]

it is because they probably didnt reinvest in the channel that much from the multiple revenue streams they have. i suspect that a big chunk of the revenue are just being pocketed to funds their own lavish lifestyle they currently have and want to maintain that lifestyle in the current economic situations

[@veryrandomvideos]

Isn't running a streaming service cost a lot of money? Like youtube membership also allow the same kind of exclusivity so why bother spending money if you aren't enough money.

[@greenbean4422]

​@@TwiggyHetfield27I've been to some really expensive weddings and 250k is insane

[@MarioGoatse]

"Spit on more than a Mic at a beatbox competition". Charlie and his metaphors and similes always crack me up. The man has a metaphor for every single situation you could think of.

[@claytonlatone8959]

But if Charlie watched beatboxing, he would know that pro beatboxers don't leave any spit on the mics 😆

[@guacamolegoblin]

@@claytonlatone8959 cap

[@KinoJosh]

​@@claytonlatone8959🤓☝️

[@watashiwahamburber3296]

​@@guacamolegoblin people like dlow inertia or codfish who use more throat based techniques dont spit at all but the technical beatboxers like helium or colaps spit like crazy

[@grimsleeper1006]

If they danced in their apology video , I may have resubbed

[@normanmai7865]

Yeah. Ukelele and interpretive dance combo apology video when?

[@dontaskme7004]

Wearing old hoodies, no make up and hair not done... Maybe have a puppy too?

[@israelrodriguez4643]

Just say you don’t have bread lil bro

[@odetotano3292]

i’m stan and i was wrong! i’m doing the stan wrong song.

[@manic-n5n]

They did dance in the apology video. If you're interested, you can watch it on their streaming platform for $6.

[@L0op]

I love how Ryan just looks scared, Shanes face exudes pure "told you so", and Steven is just barely holding on, watching his dream of even more money crumble before him.

[@vanlifebae]

😂😂😂 this is too accurate

[@vanlifebae]

Lol this is too accurate

[@DocAcher]

Yeeeep. Steven is the one who's been pushing for it, I'm sure, and now it's all crashing down on him

[@bruno3]

It's greed. But then they say it isn't, they just have to look after their 25 employees. And then I ask, why the hell do you have 25 employees in the first place? This is nuts, a channel of this size doesn't require 25 employees. You try to leverage your way up to the top and when you realize it was a misstep you try to exploit your audience? And there's also the possibility of this being just a bs excuse. And we go back to greed.

[@Thenerdinyourclass]

The employees are mostly nepo hires

[@CaulkMongler]

Genuinely curious what all those 25 job titles are cause wtf.

[@shanel4294]

This, you should be able to do more with less people, not saying to over work them. But we gotta work smarter instead of harder

[@masansr]

Well, obviously, someone has to make and maintain that website, especially one that has subscriptions for money.

[@pizzagroom6221]

lmao my old fast food job didn't even have 25 employees

[@alleycat2297]

Steven recites his lines like he’s squinting while trying to read off of a Wendy’s menu

[@LeMenace1]

He took most of the flak for the decision from an audience he probably thought supported him just as much as the other two. The thing is most people didn’t want to blame Shane or Ryan which is probably why.

[@comedyimpossible]

He felt like he was reciting an official PR statement more than the other two

[@xrgarcia10]

⁠@cptnjody7and he is also the one that ends up buying 10k lobster for his show. Sorry, he wanted us to pay for his 10k lobster 😂

[@aritrasaha441]

Most people just accept steven as a part of watcher. Most people are not fans of his work clouding thier channel​@@LeMenace1

[@madsfiedler3884]

​@@LeMenace1 he did take the most flak, but his shows are also historically and currently afaik the most expensive. he also is the one who is most likely to actually be out of touch enough to say the stuff they said and truly mean it, sarah for a FACT wouldnt let shane get that big of a metaphorical head (cant do anything ab that noggin unfortunately).

[@bigwinterhat]

BANISHED, to the APOLOGY COUCH!

[@santorosario_solus]

⛈⛈⛈⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️🌩🌩🌩🌩

[@L4mpVibes]

unironically one of the best youtuber apologies genuinely sincere and admitted wrongs and actually said what 90% of apologies don't say "I'm sorry" solid 8.7/10 apology

[@michaelmcclain6369]

Wealth literally rots people's brains. These guys are falling for the same stupid thought process as most greedy business owners: the idea of unlimited growth. They're already making an insane amount of money and yet it's still not enough for them. They could all quit now and never have to work a day in their lives but they're so addicted to capital gains they'll never be satisfied. They're chasing the dragon

[@nilexxx]

totally agree

[@HappyDragneels_page]

not to mention im pretty sure all these guys live in LA which just accelerates the wealth brain rot

[@drunkenhobo5039]

Line goes up!

[@PossibleBat]

Im so glad I’ve always despised money. I get the amount I need and nothing more. I have no desire to accumulate wealth. I want to live a happy life, not a rich one.

[@ThorAxeleon]

​@@PossibleBatFacts, preach!

[@Art_trash_girl]

I agree with Charlie in that I appreciate the apology, but it still doesn’t land for me. Shane sounded genuine, Ryan sounded scared, and Steven sounded about as empathetic as an HR manager explaining why you don’t qualify for unemployment after being laid off. Thanks for the “sorry” boys, but you already showed your hand.

[@HeyItsmeImAlex]

Same, they lost me and I followed them since the beginning of their buzzfeed days. They’re doing crisis management now after all the drama.

[@madsfiedler3884]

shane means it, and was probably expecting this response. if ryan was scared, its probably because it seems like that was part of his Big Dream(tm) and hes seeing that it isnt able to happen the way he thought it was. steven literally does not give a shit, hes always been in it for the money imo.

[@ohapplesauce]

@@HeyItsmeImAlex I’m so conflicted about it 😕 Now whenever their videos auto play on my feed I just can’t watch them.

[@Jess-lw1qv]

@@madsfiedler3884 same feelings I got from the video. It’s so clear who cares and who doesn’t.

[@carsongxd]

@@ohapplesaucegood, don’t support them. Any employees laid off will surely find a new job and they needn’t be spending their *apparent* low revenue on hundreds of thousands of dollars on weddings.

[@FrattFTW]

I can't imagine Ryan and Shane's "Ghost Files", "Puppet History" or "Are you Scared?" really costs that much to make. It's 100% Steven's luxurious spending that brought them in this position in the first place.

[@realribar4999]

This!

[@Juliana-Bub]

Ghost Files and anything else that requires travel is insanely expensive to produce.

[@generalgreevus8773]

Of the ventures that would cost a lot more to produce would be Ghost Files if they are traveling around the country and having to bring camera crews along, equipment, rent hotels, buying food, etc, BUT just like Charlie said they make a really good chunk of change through patreon, ads, and merch They should have plenty to cover the costs of Ghost Files. It seems like they need to have an actual accountant or something along the lines to help them budget their money if they are that hurting for cash.

[@spikejonzelover420]

I don’t even fuck with Steven at all idk why he’s involved in watcher

[@ferochoosss328]

shane literally makes his own puppets like what steven tf

[@aoellkddoske]

shane and ryan getting into controversy is not what I expected

[@Darkwolf-ey4jz]

most likely was Stevens idea

[@cor289]

and to think all of this could’ve been avoided if they’d just hired a financial manager

[@MariVlogable]

Thiiiiiiiiis. I commented on it too they NEED a CFO to hone in on where the money drain is. Because they are not hurting for money, for the thousand reasons youtube commentators have stated these past few days. None of them have business degrees or experience they need to stop hiring friends and family for the moment and get an actual business model set up. They want to be taken serious as a media company then get the core of a business going. Get a marketing/PR person hired, get someone to manage their sponsorships and ad deals, get a freaking financial officer in place to rein in their spending and help them budget so they can grown steadily and not bankrupt their company. Sorry to vent lol 😆 it’s just they missed so many steps in between KZbinrs and streaming platform.

[@Ripman98]

Bro are you serious? Sometimes Financial Manager are the reason this whole shit show happened in the first place. Many Financial Manager are Boomers and they doesn't know jack shit about social media

[@renangelo419]

if they had one of those they wouldnt be able to siphon off money to their personal accounts and spend it on weddings 💀

[@psychotic4560]

Whoever suggested that strategy.. they should not listen to that person ever again.

[@croissantsareaustrianactually]

The guy to the far left is the CEO. He makes all of the financial decisions and according to the comments on the announcement video, no one likes him!

[@letscrashcar9502]

​@@croissantsareaustrianactuallynot only that,the fact that Shane and Ryan leave being CEO because they dont know how and leave it to Steven means they believed him which I dont think great idea considering Steven contents have always being about buying expensive stuff and unnecessary spending

[@KhanMann66]

They all did and agreed. Stop blaming one person.

[@psychotic4560]

@KhanMann66 they all had the same idea pop into their head at the same time? 👏

[@brendolbreadwar2671]

A good point that wasnt discussed is how being too overproduced is a really bad thing. At some point they have to be satisfied with the quality and start working on more creativity. Chasing down perfection isnt good and sounds like its costing them a LOTTTTT more than it should be.

[@angelderp6689]

They for sure probably spend over 5k a video, half of that probably post and editing. Then a 25 person staff payroll is probably killing them.

[@demilts]

​@@lilytran3414100k per season. Not per episode.

[@BobbyLvl138]

@@demilts they didn't even specify that it was 100k either. "hundreds of thousands" per season was the wording, so it could be 100k, 250k, 500, etc. Regardless, they need to downsize and focus on where their viewership is, Ghost/Mystery Files, Puppet History, etc. Besides, going on expensive trips and eating expensive food on camera isn't "content", its just rich assholes flexing how much money they have so I hope to god they keep that shit in the bin where it belongs.

[@brendolbreadwar2671]

@lilytran3414 that's fucking insane. There is no reason that should cost more than what, 20k? Even that seems a little expensive. They're definitely focusing on superficial things simply because it was the goal of the mission statement, when they should be asking what they need instead.

[@ghostlyhousehorrors]

Specially with a channel thats really young. They need to focus on the growing before they can jump into more costly productions. They haven't grown much, gained enough business experiences (prior watcher, they had their empolyer buzzfeed doing all business and financing) nor do they had enough name recognition like example like folks like Rhett & Link or Markiplier to do costly productions and bigger projects yet. The finances and scale isn't their yet to take on a risk to stand on their own and make their own platform. Also paying and treating your workers lavishly well, (I say lavish, I mean like bringing them along to expensive costly production trips when they have no impactful role in the production) some who are your family and friends isn't inheritly bad per say but if it's really draining on the cost of operating your business, you need to find a balance. It's on THEM to improve and learn from mismanaging their business, not their audience to foot the bill of their own poor business decisions

[@MrMakeDo]

Surely no one believes they’re genuinely sorry because they messed up? They’re apologising because they’ve realised they’re gonna lose subs and money from it.

[@aidanwiehl2397]

If you can't accept a well formulated apology such as this one, you can't accept any. I find that sort of sad. I do think they are sorry

[@Maplebear1203]

@@aidanwiehl2397 it took to long and was to calculated for it to feel like anything more than "sorry we tried to blatantly demand more money we'll try to be less obvious next time"

[@DebtSentence]

​@@aidanwiehl2397A bunch of millionaires begging for money in the most obviously manipulative tone possible. These people are extremely calculated but act like their greed was a mistake. The business is making easily a million dollars yearly, and they cry about expensive in the thousands.

[@GalinaEv]

Anyone reading from the promt instead of saying it in thier own words - is insincere to me

[@hegone3290]

​@aidanwiehl2397 Ryan and Shane? Sure, that could be sincere. Steven, however, you could tell he was reading off a paper and most likely wasn't sincere.

[@CypherAFhhhh]

IMHO, good on them for listening to their audience and taking the L. Boooo for essentially blaming the viewers for staff layoffs.

[@stolenrelic]

The first thing they should do is lay off Steve for blowing so much on his lavish lifestyle and food shows. Personally, I would be a lot more interested in a show where the host makes food from surprisingly affordable products. But I doubt Steven would be able to do this because he's so out of touch that he doesn't know what affordable is anymore.

[@CutiePie-cq5dx]

The manipulation and gaslighting they did lol. I was rooting for them to win me back over. Now I’m sad that I feel at blame for their obvious money mismanagement

[@CypherAFhhhh]

@@CutiePie-cq5dx pretty much what you said. “See we were doing this to sustain our business and make sure we didn’t have to fire people. However because *you guys* complained so much about having to pay a measly $6 a month, we have made the decision to stay on KZbin and fire people instead, and it’s all your fault”… what

[@winniepooh187]

The fastest “Grand Opening” to “Grand Closing”. Well, at least they listened to their audience. 🤗

[@ArariaKAgelessTraveller]

They want you to believe their lies

[@quoththekraven5911]

Oh hey Jay-Z

[@samsizer2919]

Not really a grand closing. All new shows go on there along with the early access.

[@winniepooh187]

@@samsizer2919 it’s really just early access. Still free content with no paywall

[@TheFlatPancakeTheory]

They haven’t listened

[@emmahughett6596]

I am an accountant at a hotel, we have only 6 figures in our bank account at any given time AND we have over a 100 employees and a restaurant and bar we need to keep stock. 25 employees with that kind of money is nothing.

[@Altearithe]

Right exactly! I used to be the department admin for a smallish department at a major airline, and one of my responsibilities was managing the budget. Our monthly budget normally is around 300k-400k. We have around 100 employees and we run a pretty tight ship to make sure planes fly. What the heck are these guys doing with just 28 people total??

[@placeholderdoe]

To be fair LA is expensive, but yeah even with that what are they doing?

[@sassypeawaterray]

right, I was going to say....I work in a public firm and manage many clients in many different industries and 100+ employee companies operating IN OVERDRAFT AS A NORM is a very real thing for maybe a third of them? very odd.

[@rachelannbunny]

Right, what overhead costs does this company have? wages for 25 people, nice cameras, and equipment. Theyre not spending these every month once the equipment is acquired. I'm sure they have monthly running costs too like rent but. welcome to business.

[@emmahughett6596]

@@rachelannbunny That's what I am saying! I imagine it is a combo of mismanaging funds, frivolous spending, and greed.

[@user-mf8rt8yc3d]

Their goodbye video started with a shot of Watcher Headquarters IN HOLLYWOOD. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@bongbing00]

High production* and overhiring. They went to far and want to go farther.

[@nathangothan601]

Definitely over hiring. This is what happens when you hire all your friends from your previous employer - there is no way in hell they need 25 employees. And they beat a dead horse with videos that do poorly, instead of calling them in and trying something new.

[@lildishwasher]

Just sat down to eat, literal God timing

[@7evenproductions271]

DUUUUDE SAME what are you having?

[@AndrewTapia-n1y]

Same

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

@itz_me_beautiful_devil_21 nerd

[@TLT_Productions]

@itz_me_beautiful_devil_21bro what

[@kiwithryn3830]

SAME it was meant to be

[@honeyedboba]

They are treating their fans the way restaurants treat patrons. Its OUR responsibility to pay the employees enough to survive, not theirs. Its bullshit

[@KillerSkullX]

This

[@mrebear9758]

Only in America buddy

[@thebeastbrothers103]

@@mrebear9758move to China

[@p1xelz323]

Well we as viewers ARE responsible for paying ALL youtubers. If we dont watch they lose money.

[@msmoco5898]

@@thebeastbrothers103Why China?

[@snufkinsboots7220]

The way Shane lowkey has that “thank god it didn’t happen” look lmao

[@silentchrisXXI]

Man it hurts to see the apology video because they really made the worst decision and not knowing the consequences shows they don't know their audience at all

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

Exactly none of us asked for TV level product

[@homebrew4970]

Or the best decision, since everyone is talking about them right now. And by fucking things up and apologizing, they started a fire only to be the heroes that put it out. I think it's a PR stunt; nothing more, nothing less. They also did it right when quitting YT was trending. What a coincidence.

[@vincenth.8709]

you talk like they owe their audiences anything lmao.

[@DylanIE_]

​@@vincenth.8709 They make money off of their audience. No audience = No money. What kind of thinking process is this?

[@vincenth.8709]

@@DylanIE_ that's like saying doctors owe their jobs to sick people. Doctors do owe their jobs to sick people, but sick people owe their health to the doctor. There is an equivalent exchange. They get your view, you get their entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less.

[@chibiyumeusa]

They talked in the original goodbye video about how expensive Ghost Files was, claiming it was over 100k an episode, but I'm seriously hard pressed to figure out how it could possibly cost them over 60k per video of Ghost Files all in. If they take Ryan and Shane, a producer, a sound mixer, two camera operators, and an extra whoever via BUSINESS CLASS to LONDON at 5k a pop (a price inflated to account for checked baggage) that's 35k, + 2 night stay at a upper mid-range hotel for $100 a night per person: 1.4k; include 2.5 days worth of food for everyone and round up to get 3k for both. 5k location fee. $200 permitting fees rounded up= $43.2k for the shoot at the high cost end of reality. Average editor salary in LA works out to ~$31 an hour based on a google search and glassdoor. Ghost Files average about an hour long per episode, but they also are going to be working with many hours of footage and there's animations and graphics and the like so let's say it takes 4 hours of editing per minute of footage and that they're paying their editor more like $40 an hour, you're still not breaking $10k for editing costs per video. So all in, ~$54k IF they're taking a crew of 7 people via business class to an expensive location and comping meals and staying in a nice hotel. They make 6-7 episodes a year, not counting the debriefs which have to be cheap to make so that's at most $420k a year for the main crux of the series, which is about half of their take home from just Patreon, annually, based on their numbers right now.

[@rawrrree]

to be fair if they were getting hotels in london it wouldn't be £100 a night... it would be closer to £200 per person... (coming from a brit) but otherwise totally think it's complete mismanagement of funds!

[@sadishradish633]

the only thing i can think of is that they might be including the cost of ghost hunting equipment in the cost per episode estimate, even so though i feel like there's no way these machines are that expensive to be pushing the cost so high

[@MeadowSongs]

You may want to apply to manage their finances.

[@ShadowWhisper]

I suspect they probably have to pay the owners of the places they go to though, and on top of something like a rental fee they may also have to pay quite a bit to them for lost revenue for however long they have to close the place (at least for the places they go to that do tours and such). I agree that this whole thing has been ridiculous though.

[@OscarASevilla]

​@ShadowWhisper then we get into the topic of, "what kind of hotels and food should they be opting for.?" Obviously not the shittiest places and food, but at the same time, they don't need to stay at the fanciest of hotels and eat the fanciest of food, of which I'm sure they opt for.

[@teriyaki6914]

I appreciate moist pointing out that it was a little fishy they would frame it as if their only way to save their company was to try this subscription service. That part of the apology seemed like a bit of a convenient lie, and their audience ate it up. It seems more likely they just wanted more money or just have terrible financial management.

[@FukaiKokoro]

To me it feels more like a "we're sorry you feel this way"

[@3lttlbrds]

Steven's new show is expensive af. It's not Buzzfeeds funding Worth It again, but the show is not just expensive asz food but also traveling to different countries and hiring Adam and Andrew and they would be more costly. It's no coincidence that the launch of that show preceded this. But the ghoul boys got a reality check. They're still human and I hope they learn from this.

[@ghostlytavern129]

I’m a fan and that part gave me the ick but as long as they wise up I’ll deal with it

[@kaylenc05]

I think it's both, they want more money AND they have hilariously terrible financial management. It is so ironic that they focused on hiring 25 employees, now also hired steven's old cohosts from worth it, yet it looks like none of them has any knowledge on how to manage a company budget. It's like they expect to keep hiring friends and family, continue living lavish lifestyles and then have us foot the bill. Not smart nor cool at all. Also super tone deaf in the current global economic market.

[@notLime_]

I'm a fan and idgaf as long as the content will be on KZbin. People tend to forget what the important thing is.

[@TherealHoffypoffy]

I think they didn’t put enough thought into the fact that a big part of their audience is international. For example, 6 dollars for them actually are R$30,00 in my country. Second thing is, most people aren’t going to pay for something they had free access to since the beginning

[@ElphabaWasFramed]

I'm in the U.S. but this was one of my first thoughts as well. The whole "anyone and everyone can afford" was completely out of touch. It shows ignorance of not only the current cost of living crisis in their own country of residence, but a complete lack of any consideration for their international fans. If Lim is flying all over the world to try expensive food how are they so willfully ignorant of the implications of $6 elsewhere? It's elitist and maddening and I'm not resubscribing.

[@gil1934]

Now that I think about it... Watcher TV is so unnecessary. Not only they could've done it just with Patreon, but running the servers and this new platform is also gonna cost them money, driving up their spending even more. My god, what a mess

[@samsizer2919]

They're putting any future new shows on there, which is a good idea.

[@charlidvds3296]

And the thing is now many viewers have a mistrust whenever they will ask to support them, before this they could of just plugged their patreon in their videos more, or if they had a great idea for something big they could of gotten a go fund me where most could just chop in 2 dollars for something great

[@GenderedMess]

Exactly! Patreon takes around 5% of each transaction on average (so a $1 would be 0.05 or so to Patreon), that is going to be way less than having to pay and run servers and a platform. Just plug your patreon more!!

[@Supernovald]

Of course the paid subscription for a FREE video watching platform is bound to fail. How else could they not see this?

[@jay-gt8re]

You paid for it huh?​@@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0

[@Yoruharu]

@@jay-gt8re no, they are just bots, stop giving them attention.

[@3JAD21]

Ask Steven Lim. He's the CEO and has publicly stated that he's the one that makes the financial decisions.

[@handgun559]

Idk. Roosterteeth kinda didn't for years before the whole conglomeration thing slowly killed them. Also Dropout still rocks. Granted, I didn't see these peoples price tag, but DropOut is $5 a month, and is worth it.

[@kylebanks13]

​@handgun559 literally everyone is ignoring that dropout exists. They also love pretending that a subscription killed rooster teeth and not everything else.

[@spookyy.k]

If I had a dollar for each time some ex-buzzfeed employees made a company, resulting in 3 men talking seriously on a couch, I'd have 2, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.

[@GW42329]

Copied comment from the watcher apology video.

[@kyleellis1825]

If I had a nickel for everytime someone has repurposed this quote in another uninspired way, I'd be rich. Which is hilarious considering the quote was about something be slightly unusual, not so common you hear it multiple times a day.

[@nate9948]

@@GW42329 oh this comment has been around for a while, seen the same exact comment years ago, kids these days dont know how to be original

[@Avaa-vanilla995]

​@kyleellis1825 it's just a silly little thing from Phineas and Ferb

[@CaLypSO4456]

I saw this word for word on twitter

[@Crooks7772]

You hit the nail on the head when you speculated about “some kind of weird mismanagement behind the scenes.”

[@somainswakadoad5684]

There's information they're not telling in these videos, They claim they're losing money, but they don't tell you they just added 3 new hosts to their lineup. So something else they're not telling us, My theory (Guess) is that they tried to get a YT Premium show slot for one of their series, And KZbin said get bent, so they took it personal and thought this was the move.

[@Maplebear1203]

Mine is that they keep hiring their friends and family bc tell me why you need that big of a staff for one video a week and now all of that stuff is being horribly overpaid while their videos are over produced so they end up spending way more money than they should

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

@@Maplebear1203I know I’ve wondered about their one show a week thing. Too like produce more videos and you’ll make more mosny

[@cyahnaa]

Im waiting for the "steven has been embezzling" vid

[@Gallade400]

Definitely a ton of problems, mainy: Management problems - they hire these many people but cannot accept the fact that as a company, you have to lay off sooner or later. They hire too many people and now they're having problems with their upkeep? If this is a legit reason from them, then they just have to hire an experienced HR who has the skill, knowledge, ability, and experience in working with teams or companies. This person won't just hire friends, families, or anyone who applies. This person would also be responsible into deciding if hiring/letting go of people would be necessary/detrimental to the company. Ego problems - I think Ryan got a little too over his head wanting to produce Netflix-level kind of platform. They're only 3 million subscribers with most of them being hooked only to the supernatural/true crime/history content. Not everyone is gonna like their banter, so what makes them think that people who have no idea who they are, ride with their jokes and references? Ryan did not think realistically.

[@laurenkay5401]

100% this.

[@mirusasaki]

It's a shame that they didn't want to dip back into the true crime scene. Which was baffling because their reason was it's mentally taxing for them. Meanwhile we have hundreds to thousands of others who do the exact same videos without running into those problems. They're also running at a fraction of the cost than these guys were doing.

[@leatherDarkhorse]

because all they hire is friends and family, that why they cant get rid off, and most of them are sitting there do nothing and get paid. sara is obviously one of them.

[@velrine3430]

lol they’re not sorry, only sorry because it backfired