They Don't Believe This...

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A breakdown of NBA debates that once happened, but are now hard to believe.
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The game of Basketball has been my passion since I was 5 years old. I grew up as a kid watching my dad's recorded VHS tapes of playoff games through the 70s and 80s, and collected all the Basketball cards. Something about the game and what it represents just hooked me from a very young age.
My love for the game only continues to grow as time goes on. I love studying and analyzing the game, with an unbiased perspective. Feel free to subscribe, follow me on social media, and celebrate this amazing game and it's rich history with me!
I post videos every week on NBA history, predictions, hypothetical scenarios and current NBA topics.
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Intro Music: Turn On - RW Smith • Turn On - RW Smith (No... ​​​​​​​​​​
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#nba #basketball #hoops

[@jonnyarnett]

Thanks to MANSCAPED for sponsoring today's video! Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping + 2 Free Gifts with my promo code "ARNETT" at mnscpd.com/JonnyArnett What is another comparison that people wouldn't believe today??

[@lazydadsgarage]

Clyde Drexler and MJ up until their meeting in the finals. Or even Dominique vs MJ. Maybe Chris Bosh vs Carlos Boozer 07-09

[@BoxingisgoatedBoxingisgoated]

Yao ming and shaq

[@skye6817]

@7:20 I wouldn't call him a late bloomer when his coach at the time didn't want to let him start. He averaged around 16 off the bench...

[@reinerzufall9097]

Why everyone advertising the same overpriced Chinese crap? Or the KEEPS scam which doesnt work. Do some Research before you take any offer from shady Companys Selling way overpriced trash. You literally Do advertising for wish quality.

[@ernestthomas9090]

Took me awhile to think of it but, James Harden vs Steph Curry. At one point the NBA players felt that Harden should have one the MVP over Curry when he won his first one. This is maybe only a decade ago and right now people would never compare the two.

[@Crono454]

Amare Stoudemire as an MVP candidate, in the conversation with Duncan and Dirk and KG. Amare’s run in the 2000s was mind blowing and in his first playoffs against the Spurs in 05 he averaged 37 and 10 for the series against Tim Duncan in a losing 5 game series.

[@keithjoseph128]

He was a perfect example of how stats don't always equal positive value.

[@Irfanhill]

True, I always forget how good Amar'e was in those days and I have to remind myself that he wasn't just to Nash what Kenyon Martin was to Jason Kidd in New Jersey.

[@Crono454]

@@keithjoseph128 they missed the playoffs for the rest of the time Nash was in Phoenix without him. When he played the Suns were contenders. When he missed the season with injury or after being traded they weren’t making the playoffs or lost earlier in the playoffs. Sorry to say, but if you really think that, you really just weren’t there. Amare was the best player on the team from 05-2010.

[@therealjhill6]

💯

[@TheIcemanthomas]

@@Crono454 Amare had naked would tell u different

[@citi360]

That Jordan fadaway in the beggining is soooo beautiful and clean.

[@Zamppa86]

Kobe himself said that TMac was able to do exactly what he was able to do but with the difference that TMac was 6'8". Kobe also said that every time he had to play against TMac and guard him it was like a puzzle. He always had to try to figure out what TMac was going to do. Kobe is an all time great perimeter defender so I do believe what he had to say about TMac. No one can claim at this point that Kobe and TMac were equals. Kobe ended up becoming a top 10 player of all time and winning 5 rings but for a few seasons TMac was pretty much as good as Kobe was on individual level as you can see from the stats. Basketball is a team game though and when ranking players both accomplishments should be taken into account. For me TMac was the most exciting player of the early 00s and I liked him more than I liked Kobe. TMac's prime was around the same level individually with Kobe but it was noticeably shorter and because of injuries with himself and in his supporting cast(Grant Hill and Yao) their careers ended up going into opposite directions. One on one prime TMac was on the same level with Kobe but NBA basketball is not a one on one game. For me Kobe is the 5th greatest player of all time and I have TMac somewhere barely inside top 50, maybe even just a bit outside of it but I still recognize how awesome overall TMac was for those few seasons he was completely healthy.

[@BOSSDONMAN]

Kobe was better in the Playoffs in all fairness.

[@facelessandnameless]

Agreed. I’d say when they were both at their peaks, the main difference was defense.

[@derrick3913]

People forget. There was a time when the debate was Kobe, Vince, or Tracy. Kobe ended up being the best. But there was a time period where you could make a debate

[@therealjhill6]

@@BOSSDONMAN Kobe had better teams than mcgrady

[@Lewishhhh]

I agree with your analysis but I have both players ranked much lower

[@idiverse3457]

This is the reason why I often don't debate among young fans because unless you were there to witness certain things. You would never believe that McGrady was better than Kobe for, like, a good 4 years and Allen Iverson as well.

[@JohnJohnson-do3db]

It would be cool if you made a longer version of this video with more examples, coming from someone who only became an nba fan during the 12-13 season.

[@Lloyd00]

Did anyone not watch the interview Tmac and Kobe had together? They were supposed to be battling for championships for their entire career. Each had the utmost respect for each other's games

[@aaa-dk6jr]

How can they battle for champioships when Tracy is a playoff choker and he never passed the first round? Dude played in just 50 playoff games in a 15 years long career. And yet somehow people consider him as a top 75, or even a top 50 players of all time. He is not even top 500.

[@tonyplushyt2685]

@@aaa-dk6jr no

[@samuelmunoz1464]

​@aaa-dk6jr if you don't think Tmac is top 500, you don't know anything about the sport.

[@aaa-dk6jr]

@@samuelmunoz1464 Like I said, just 50 playoff games in a 15 years long career. Top 5 most overrated players ever, and not top 500 players of all time.

[@paesoh8640]

@@aaa-dk6jrtell us you didn’t watch the video without saying you didn’t watch it

[@TheIcemanthomas]

The cp and rondo comparisons. The Nash and Kidd one. Kg vs Duncan. D rose Russell Westbrook, that weird few year of Andrew Bynum vs Dwight comparisons.

[@jonnyarnett]

"Weird" is a good way to describe Bynum vs Dwight. That one was pushed to the point of awkwardness. Bynum had better post moves.... Dwight was better at EVERYTHING else. lol. Never should have been an argument

[@Irfanhill]

@@jonnyarnett The argument relied on the hopes that were put on Bynum, who was so young and had all the physical tools. But I think he really didn't take any of it so seriously. He had the perfect environment to succeed too, with Kobe & Pau to lead him!

[@TheIcemanthomas]

@@jonnyarnett Shaq of course was the main guy pushing anyone that wasn’t Howard. He even tried to push brook as the top center for a few years. Smh.

[@fortnitejake850]

Talking about the cards was a nice touch. Since you obviously collect them, I would love to see more of that stuff on the channel

[@jlui21]

-- I have ZERO interest in basketall cards but then again, I watched a doc on Zippers. ZIPPERS!?! Why? IDK, and I watched the whole thing, lol.

[@iPokemonAi]

Yes that would be swell

[@kingdeedee]

@@jlui21trading cards always have some kind of story to tell. There’s always something interesting behind their intrinsic value even the ones that aren’t worth much

[@abrahamwiebe]

Yes I hadn't seen a Beckett in forever!

[@josueguillen4111]

I remember in 2k10 and 11 the commentators debating between CP3 and Williams being better than the other… or was it NBALive 09? I forgot. One of those

[@jonnyarnett]

Man, thats a great piece of evidence. It's probably a good thing I became aware of this after the video went live, because I would have been searching endlessly through the old 2k games for that sound bite. lol

[@josueguillen4111]

@@jonnyarnett I remember it so clearly cause I was full on team CP but being mad that one of them said they preferred Williams cause he had better size.

[@yuriykhasidov1626]

Ewing vs Olajuwon From the late 80s to the late mid 1990’s Who is the best center was a big debate.

[@iitchydog8770]

There are tons of videos of Kobe himself saying TMac was on his level

[@Lennard2121]

Tmac at his peak was incredibly good, my favorite player of all time. Saying he was NEVER EVEN CLOSE to Kobe was insane.

[@Mercurial.]

So T-Mac is a GOAT player then 👀

[@therealjhill6]

@@Mercurial.from a talent perspective yes

[@keithjoseph128]

​@@Mercurial.Is Kobe?

[@aricrudd6579]

@@Mercurial.Kobe isn’t, so it doesn’t matter.

[@Lennard2121]

@Mercurial. Judging by Talent and ability, 100%, by accomplishments and hardware, no. Kobe had good players by his side and had an amazing work ethic and drive, but Kobe even compared himself to a smaller Tmac.

[@DerethAC]

100% spot on. Hot take alert, but we never got to see Penny Hardaway reach his full potential because he was derailed by injuries. I would argue that the peak that we did see from Penny was in the same class as Kobe too. He was probably a step behind Kobe as a scorer, but he was a much better and more willing passer that wanted to get others involved in the offense. The guy was amazing.

[@deanbenford7363]

Meh, he struggled after shaq left even before the catastrophic injuries. His efficiency went down because defenses could focus on rim protection when he drove the lane because there's no fear of Shaq waiting on a quick dish for a dunk. Once he started shooting more jumpers after Shaq left he became quite pedestrian offensively.

[@DerethAC]

@@deanbenford7363 IMO, that was more a function of there not being a clear second option, allowing other teams to focus on him. Similarly, it highlights how amazing that Jordan was, because he played his entire career without a player that required a double team offensively, and he was still both efficient and unstoppable.

[@JonahsWail]

I dunno, if I remember correctly Penny’s injuries were coming into effect early and often after Shaq left. Solo Penny was still solid when 100% and that was also long before his prime years would’ve hit. I’d need to go back and research a bit tho.

[@TheIcemanthomas]

I don’t agree he was great but y’all put his short peak on way too high a pedestal.

[@jourdansarpy4935]

So many NBA players from the 2000s had penny as their favorite player.

[@mrjermz5406]

Vince Carter is my favorite player since his days at UNC, and I can confirm he was big time his first few seasons before becoming a legendary journeyman.

[@jourdansarpy4935]

Vince could have retired at 32 and had incredible career averages but he chose to stay in shape and get as much money from the league as he possibly could. He’s honestly one of the greatest athletes of all time. He’s the Ken Griffey Jr. of basketball.

[@DragonmasterDan]

Grant Hill vs Glen Robinson comparisons were common. With Hill being a higher usage rate player as a point forward and Robinson being more of a scorer. Iverson vs Marbury was a discussion as Iverson was scoring a lot on a losing team while Marbury was contributing to a playoff team in Minnesota. Also, LeBron vs Carmelo conversations were a thing in 2003-2004. I'll add in Rose vs Westbrook debates that ended when Rose got injured.

[@catrellbailey5887]

Great idea for a video. Needs a part 2.

[@ignitex1]

It's is a fact, they have the same skill set and TMAC has the height advantage.

[@TheIcemanthomas]

Not exactly the same skill set but close

[@chiefs816kc]

I am now seeing other KZbinrs shout out Jonny's channel. Jonny, you are extremely talented and creative. Your passion and professionalism are on display in every one of your videos. You are 1 or 2 years older than me (I remember you mentioning your age in one video), therefore our NBA viewing period is similar. Yes, Kobe vs T-Mac and D-Will vs CP3 were real debates during the 2000s.

[@colin24447]

It’s absolutely insane the basketball takes I see on a daily basis about literally everything. These kids who grew up in the social media age (and also didn’t start watching basketball until lebron was on the heat) know absolutely nothing about basketball history. Pathetic tbh

[@jonnyarnett]

It's crazy. Like I understand I'm older than most people online, but still, sometimes I'm like "were you born yesterday?!" lmao

[@markjackson6431]

@@jonnyarnett Please a video on Dream Team 2 (94 FIBA Team). PLEASE

[@phillipcummings3518]

A lot of these kids watching basketball didn't start watching Lebron until he started playing for the Lakers.

[@TheIcemanthomas]

This generation is not to blame. The last two generations takes are just as bad as todays kids. People between my age group 24-30, and older be having a lot of terrible takes too.

[@BoxingisgoatedBoxingisgoated]

@colinh2447 Old heads be having bad takes to. There be alot of old basketball player and old dudes on tik tok who have terrible takes it isn't just younger fans but older fans to who are casuals of the sport I be debating with old heads that lebron is top 5

[@loganmattoon5284]

As a 16 year old and entering my 4th year of being an NBA fan, I really appreciate your videos Jonny. When I found your channel about a year ago, my passion for the NBA was at it's lowest, and I seriously thought I wouldn't get that feeling of constantly learning new things about the game. But every single video I get enlightened and filled in on stuff I missed. Weather it's players I've never watched, past contenders, interesting stats and facts, or just different perspectives that I had never thought of before. Anyway, just wanted to say I appreciate u man. Also a Lakers fan 💜💛

[@thareelhelloagain]

Question: as a young and newer fan, did you legitimately not know about the Chris Paul vs Deron Williams debate? Or had you already heard that in a HUNDRED other NBA youtube videos about players that had a steep dropoff from their prime? Legitimately asking, since I do not agree with Jonny that ANYONE has forgotten that debate. To my mind, literally everyone always mentions it if they mention Deron Williams at all.

[@loganmattoon5284]

@@thareelhelloagain no I knew about the Williams Paul comparisons and that Paul normally got the edge because of his defense

[@thareelhelloagain]

@@loganmattoon5284 OK sweet. I think Jonny is ludicrous to use that pair as a comparison for TMac vs Kobe. Absolutely everyone and their grandma knows about Paul vs Williams.

[@michaelthreepeat]

​@@thareelhelloagainI see your point but people also forget at a crazy rate...and so many casuals talking it's becoming, this year number 2 pick Miller doesn't even know who Khris freaking Middleton is ??!!?

[@InceptionMusicGrp]

Can you do a video on how good CP3 was before his injury. I feel like because he was able to overcome the injury & still remain elite people forget that he was a different player before the knee injury in "09-10" season. Paul was easily averaging 22 & 11assist for 2 straight years & had the Hornets as a top half playoff seed without any other real offensive help. He literally started the pick & roll to a lob with Tyson Chandler. He had Chandler averaging 15 points, & it was 90% off of CP3 assist. After the injury he never averaged more than 20 points & never got back to 11 assist but he played with much more talent. he clearly had lost some explosiveness & lateral movement but he was just so good at basketball he was able to have a Point God career. Cp3 really deserves a deep dive.

[@Kashed]

People who didn’t watch the NBA in the late 90’s don’t realize that Kobe wasn’t always the classy well polished speaker he is most noted for in his later years and what they tend to show you in interviews. He was a cocky kid who came off as somewhat arrogant and it turned a lot of people off and not everyone liked him. He really changed his attitude after he gained his maturity.

[@strgametakes3699]

This is exactly why I love your content keep it coming.....also when are you going to stream

[@diablejambe3460]

Kinda reminds me of how once upon a time, deron williams was talked about as a top pg in the league and was getting compared to cp3 for best pg. Once he fell off, its like ppl just forgot how good he used to be. Edit: right after posting this, the kobe/t-mac section ended lol.

[@Bigedub101]

Man Williams fell like a ton a bricks after like 2013... Kinda sad😊

[@diablejambe3460]

@@Bigedub101 looool yeah, in his case it might actually be kinda understandable cuz like u said, dude fell off HARD man. Not like he was slowly (or even somewhat quickly) falling off, it was so damn ridiculously fast. If that wasnt the case then he might still be getting a bit more recognition today.

[@AudiTech26]

Classmates made fun of me for saying Donovan Mitchell was better than Ben Simmons. I know not a one to one matchup, but I remembered the storylines when Ben took Rookie Of The Year instead of Donovan.

[@cdubb9554]

Kobe spoke about this and he agreed with Tracy

[@Shiljamannn]

T-Mac is one of the biggest what ifs in the NBA history, his lack of post season auccess was mostly due to injuries and lack of luck...

[@randomperson2540]

Your absolutely right, dont forget ray allen was up there too in the early 2000s

[@randomperson2540]

Great video your awesome

[@Kool_Kids69]

Mj to Clyde

[@EddieWoodsRemnantOutreach]

man that intro from coming to america.... PERFECT

[@Paul-gn6nc]

When asked about being 2 games up: T-Mac: it feels good to be in the second round Kobe: job’s not finished Attitude and work ethic is what separated them.

[@overseer707]

dude please make more videos about basketball cards and other nba memorabilia. loved that segment

[@LungMing23]

This is so true. Just like people forget about prime Penny. They forget about TMac. Lots of us were team Mac over Kobe. But eventually when Kobe won without Shaq the comparisons were over. Kobe won lol.

[@zoneoutodg1350]

“He ain’t lyin” 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@poiudndudbbd]

Back in the mid to late 2000s i was firmly in the camp of Deron Williams is better than CP3. How wrong i was but i remember

[@jonnyarnett]

In the moment, you weren't so wrong, but yeah, Williams clearly wasn't built to last. lol

[@franchica]

Vince was definitely seen as that guy. Just didnt seem to have it that list .1%, that killer instinct. From memory he also seemed to get injured a lot.

[@jourdansarpy4935]

Vince was like a 6’6” Giannis. But unlike Giannis he would play a ton of minutes. In high school and college, you play like 40 games max in a season. So you can get away with going all out like he did. But in the NBA that eventually takes his toll. When he lost his athleticism, he didn’t have the elite level skill that guys like Kobe had. A Vince Carter that can’t fly is “only” a really good NBA player.

[@cadecrusader3940]

Thank you Jonny!

[@anthonysanchez5997]

Young Kobe was more of a Leader by example, always worked hard in practice and in the off-season, studied film and basketball history, to improve and perfect every aspect of his game. And wanted his teammates to commit to their craft like him. Shaq was more of the Vocal Leader, more likeable, funny and respected. Kobe had great leadership qualities but also at times can be a loner and more serious. In the 3 peat, Kobe did make sacrifices to help the team as a whole, to play through Shaq and play through the Triangle, which was a sign of leadership and good teammate. A lot of the Media was biased even back then to discredit Kobe.

[@Mercurial.]

The media couldn't cope that it was a young phenom post MJ era that was going to take over the mantle of the league. They media liked Shaq bec he was friendly smiling a 🧸 that joked a lot wich Shaq played that character bec it was important for him to be liked wich wasn't for Kobe.

[@facelessandnameless]

@@Mercurial.100%

[@AnHebrewChild]

39 year old here. Followed the league closely then. You NAILED this video man

[@mrt9539]

Johnny should be an analyst for the NBA. Hands down the best and most informed, analytical, statistical, historically aware, sensible and fair NBA KZbinr. Period.

[@AlbertoHernandezH]

Absolutely agree, they both were at the top, my two favorite players, even though Kobe was #1 for me. Carter and Iverson were close too. The fact that Kobe was putting up those numbers with Shaq on the team is insane, though!

[@alex4833]

Great video, Jonny! I remember when T-Mac, Carter, and Kobe were all in their primes and they were amazing. It is silly how some fans are dismissing T-Mac's comments. RE: Deron Williams - great points there too. If I remember correctly, he was on the Redeem Team also and I remember him being a great PG also. Happy Friday!

[@targethandgun7631]

This guy just brings so much sense. Love watching your videos.

[@SixSioux]

Bless ya dude, keeping it real with FACTS and history of the game. Best channel I joined so far. 🙏

[@muziqaz]

Kobe himself talked extremely highly of T-Mac

[@legendlee1576]

Need more of these!!!!!!

[@edrick28]

I love the surprise appearance of the Beckett mags haha

[@Kool_Kids69]

Love the vids

[@nicksamp515]

I remember the Vince Carter vs Kobe. Almost everyone was on Vince's side and was anticipating a Vince and Kobe showdown in the finals as the raptors were posed to get there. Sadly his poor decision making led them to lose against philly. Everybody knew that the Lakers would win it all that season but everyone was excited to see him go toe to toe with Kobe.

[@greywolf2155]

Absolutely love this concept for a video series. Would love to see more, especially in other eras

[@floydparr8006]

Another point in the DWill-CP3 debate was that Paul only won 1 playoff series in that period while Williams led his team to the WCF where they lost to the Champion Spurs. Utah also got past the 1st round 3 of 4:years. Paul is still seen as a playoff under achiever.

[@bigpapavee]

Johnny, thank you for setting it straight with T-Mac. I'm an ol ballhead Sixers fan til my hometown got it's own NBA franchise the Toronto Raptors. I never lost allegiance to the Sixers or Pistons and had this new team to root for! We signed McGrady out of high school and my goodness if we could have kept him in Toronto with Vince? What a show that would have been! You could see his potential as a Raptor and he sure lived up to it in spades. He was up there with all the "prime hybrids" of the post Jordan era. Kobe, Penny, Grant Hill, Vince. Thanks for the video. Do your thing boyyyy!!!

[@itznotdatserious99]

I like this video! It's different, nostalgic and it makes you think.

[@DuranmanX]

I think this is what hurts Bill and Wilt. People arent aware how dominant the 60s were, so assume they played against pushovers

[@skywalker2759]

You can honestly only speak on what you’ve been alive to see

[@jonnyarnett]

FACTS. The disrespect to Nate Thurmond is the one that especially bothers me. These kids have clearly never seen an actual plumber, because plumbers aren't 6, 10 and built like the incredible Hulk. lol

[@tallevy]

@@jonnyarnettI feel insulted as a 17yo fan. Thurmond is one of the greatest big men of all time, excellent rebounder too. And no, my younger ass was not that surprised by these comparisons. Great video!

[@catherinelynnfraser2001]

Great video and nice segue to manscaped advertisement and sponsorship

[@shaquille7414]

You definitely are the best basketball KZbinr your videos are just really interesting and informative and it’s great

[@alexanderlyons4807]

I feel like down the road the Steph vs Dame discussion will end up much like these

[@sksksjsjsja]

they are not even close

[@oaklandwarriors9129]

No lies were told in this video

[@tracelawson1367]

You deserve to be up there with the likes of Korzemba and Jimmy. Undoubtedly a Future bball KZbin GOAT

[@adamsmith-jm5fd]

Regarding Phil Jackson's criticism of Kobe. Anything he says you need to take with a grain of salt. Tex Winter who taught Phil how to coach was a big proponent of Kobe and did not buy the argument that he was selfish. Tex even made a collection of film about Kobe feeding the ball to Shaq to prove his point to Phil and Shaq. Phil is a backstabber who stabbed Jerry West and Tex Winter in the back.

[@kmarkhamussco]

fantastic video!!!!

[@XaviorJordan]

Not a lie told in this video. GREAT content

[@Lllooggaan]

Need a pt 2 as well

[@ImportAl]

Deron Williams, before the injuries and weight, was almost a taller Baron Davis. Both guys knees robbed them of years of high-flying, physical PG play, today's prototype minus more 3s.

[@dougdonelson9471]

Dwill was good but not on baron davis' level. As an overall player they are close but davis was on a whole other level. Dwill wish he could yam on someone like davis could.

[@ernestthomas9090]

As someone that collected cards at one point only four names sold, Jordan, Shaq, Penny, and Grant Hill. You really could tell how the fans liked based solely on which cards were worth the most.

[@carmelowanthony7946]

The cards were very interesting and it’s really nice and unique to have your perspective as someone who’s been a huge nba fan for many years and who experienced what to us is just history

[@steveharmon735]

I just subscribed. Great video.

[@dougdonelson9471]

Great video! I think I'm about your age Jonny and had these debates all the time. I'm also an LAL and Kobe fan but loved tmac and vinsanity almost as much too. It was a great era of bball. But one debate i had often was cp3/dwill. My buddy liked dwill for his sccoring/shooting and i liked cp3 for his defense. Would lile to see more of these videos.

[@wc4201]

David Robinson vs Hakeem… David’s greatness was severely diminished by one bad series against Hakeem.

[@Sweat404]

The Beckett magazine was a staple for 90s kids

[@ImportAl]

T-Mac & cousin Vince were my favorite players after Bulls Jordan retired. Yes Kobe's clearly greater, but T-Mac had DEEP bag and Lebron's height. Damn back, knee, & shoulder cut his prime short.

[@trevormay101]

Deron's drastic falloff clouds everybody's judgement but that debate was heated

[@matthieusaade3616]

Damn Jonny, take a break bro, you're going to burn yourself out with all these bangers back to back to back

[@user-jw5qj8kv2y]

Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer, who used to belong to the Utah Jazz, were really strong players.

[@ScooterChang]

That was a smooth transition into manscape haha

[@derekt9974]

I think you got it mixed up, Mike Miller had to carry McGrady. Lol

[@62crazylegs]

Bro, u spittin straight 🔥🔥🔥 they dont known the tmac vs kobe debate that took place between me and my best friend in those days. And they def dont know about the cp3 vs D williams!! I was always team cp3.

[@coreykaunfer6167]

Lebron vs Carmelo was a real thing very early on

[@RandomStuffFreak]

nice & important video - ppl forget and younger ppl dont know

[@LAdams-sb1hf]

To cap it off about TMac, Kobe said he was his toughest cover. He said that he could do anything that he could, just being 6'9.

[@Derrian-gq4zq]

You brought up Vince! You have gotten my like

[@alexlanza79]

Young fellas they don't really know how good he was, I totally remember TMac and he was so great that I don't know between him and Hill who is the greatest what if of the last 30 years in the NBA

[@tdup191]

🌹

[@arvinloremia5812]

Very nostalgic video. I remember with the tmac vs kobe back then. I was on team kobe just because my older brother is a huge shaq fan so I wanted to be his Kobe. I liked williams more than cp3 back then simply because he jad a nasty handle. I was a kid back then damn time flies.

[@ianmason2003]

I was 20 something when Kobe came into the league, he’s remembered WAY different than he should be.

[@Janon743]

How would you say he should be remembered? Just curious

[@xfacta334]

Those who were outside know that: Kobe, TMac, A.I., Vince and Ray Allen were all in the same orbit for about 5 years. CP3, Deron Williams and Rondo were neck and neck in all "best PG" debates for about 4 years. And one more that Jonny didn't touch on: D. Rose vs Westbrook was not a conversation until years after Rose's injuries. Russ was viewed as Diet Rose back then.

[@baileyv5239]

Deron Williams vs CP was never a real debate among smart NBA fans. You can go back and look at every article and listen to everyone who covered the NBA in those days and anyone who wasn’t in Utah would say Paul and usually not even close

[@blacknetsmed]

The TMac v Kobe was definitely a real thing in the 01/02 Season & the 02/03 Season. Outside of those years not so much. The thing about childhood nostalgia and childhood debates the arguments were very surface level rudimentary sometimes ridiculous. Back in those days people said: "Player A averages more point than points than Player B, therefore Player A is a better basketball player than Player B" which is incredibly indolent. Not putting much stock in things like Efficiency, Defense, Playmaking etc. People look back at a player like TMac and see that his overall scoring Efficiency was below the league average 11 out of 15 seasons and outside 2003 his TS% was never above 1%. He was Low Efficiency scorer so write off childhood debates as ridiculous, because quite frankly a lot them are in retrospect with more information and data.

[@GoodOmali]

The D will and CP3 run was some good years 08-11

[@ktapreswreckd921v9]

And from the late 80's and early 90's. The Michael and Drexler comparison.

[@andgar923]

I watched as many Magic games as I could and it was obvious that TMac was the most double and triple teamed perimeter player since MJ and still is. His number only tell a fraction of the story, how he got his stats is what's more fascinating for me. He had to fight hard to get the ball, then he had to fight 2-3 people to get a shot off. He was more unguardable than Kobe imo, because he was as skilled but taller and slightly more athletic. But what also made him more dangerous was his willingness to pass. He didn't hold on to the ball like Kobe, he passed quickly and moved without the ball sooner, something Kobe didn't do as much of. Kobe did have the tendency to hold on to the ball more and passed as a last resort. But that's also what separated them. Kobe wanted to kill you all by himself. TMac just wanted to get by and did't always 'appear' to have the same chip on his shoulder as Kobe. Kobe wanted to desperately prove he was the best, while Mac knew he was better and wasn't always on attack mode. I think TMac was a bigger version of Penny, with Penny being a better passer, but TMac a better defender and scorer. But whoever says TMac wasn't on the same level as Kobe is an idiot.

[@jourdansarpy4935]

I also was a Vince Carter truther back in the day. Great vid.

[@ancientphilosopher]

Get Mr. Arnett to the 1M club NOW.

[@bluelivesmurder5696]

I remember arguing with my friends in the early 2000s about who was better. They would argue T-Mac and I would argue Kobe.

[@lazydadsgarage]

Man Jonny is bringing up my childhood again. Kobe himself said that TMac was the toughest to guard. I think you could have definitely included a part about Chris Webber. If the Kings would have beat the Lakers in the West finals we'd be talking about him a lot more.

[@jonnyarnett]

Yeah. You'll remember this, but in the early 2000s, the top Power Forward spot was a debate between Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber, and it was seriously a toss up to most of us. Dirk Nowitzki was kinda seen as a dark horse candidate because of his inferior defense. That 2011 title really changed the perspective for a lot of people.

[@lazydadsgarage]

@@jonnyarnett especially after Dirk lost in his first finals appearance. "He's not a winner"

[@alexanderadonyae7937]

Ppl forgot "C Webb" owned Dirk and the Dallas Mavericks for 4 years straight in the 2000's

[@autisticturtle8210]

Jonny arnett top ten KZbinr on nba

[@veljkoradovic7162]

Embiid vs Jokic will be one in the future

[@TeacherLegendary]

Best basketball youtuber by far

[@willg3220]

Grant Hill drinks Sprite

[@justinpayne3308]

Ball shaver adds. That's how you know you come up.