STRANGER THINGS Season 4 Ending Explained, Volume 2 Theories, Vecna Explained & Details You Missed!

[@ThinkStory]

What did we think of STRANGER THINGS Season 4 Volume 1? Will I have to sing again? Please don't make me do it... Check out my other sci-fi videos here: kzbin.info/aero/PLY9KJ1cFVs7iajBX4Ibg6jaCAH1eIuSgd

[@jordanadams9098]

A few folks are already mentioning the thing where Dustin actually said that “Vecna is a 5 star general for the mindflayer”, so he’s not the actual upsidedown’s leader. But another big note is that the place where vecna took Max and Nancy is not the actual upsidedown. It’s Vecna’s mind space, and sorta like a dream world. Dustin even mentioned that when Vecna was attacking Max, she must have found a backdoor into his mind. In Max’s case, it actually looks a lot different then anything we’ve seen the the upsidedown, but for Nancy, it only looks like the upsidedown cause that’s where Barb’s death happened in the season 1. So Vecna is preying on her trauma from that.

[@ShilohAmore]

@@jordanadams9098 Are you saying there’s gonna be a season 5??

[@jordanadams9098]

@@ShilohAmore Nah, I don’t think so. I just was repeating what was said in the show.

[@utkarshagrawal9832]

@@ShilohAmore there is season 5 which will be the last

[@peterjohn8625]

I loved that little ditty at the start, haha. 👍

[@DaiNguyen-xv4vn]

I think you totally misunderstood the scene where eleven remembers being born. It was a memory of pure love that made her powerful. Not a sad one of being taken away from her mother. She tried anger and sadness first but it was not enough. This Shows why Number 1 can never be as strong as eleven because she has known true love and will have the power of friendship as well, for the final battle.

[@Ashley-km4qi]

@@kamil_0228 the power of friendship is not a new theme

[@BaDazai]

@@kamil_0228 they all stole that show from the care bears 😅

[@Channel-di6tw]

legit nobody asked

[@meganbradley2369]

I feel like this season is Harry Potter and IT combined lol

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

This theme of love over evil reminds me of Harry Potter VS Voldemort

[@minar3907]

It was actually the memory of El's mom telling her that she loves her, that helped her to overpower Vecna. I think that was a key moment, that showed that love overcomes all.

[@MrDazed]

I have a feeling that 001/vecna relies on hate and anger to feed his power, and that birth scene shows that for el and the gang that love is the fuel for theirs.

[@mbm432]

But the one she used when she sent vecna to the upside down was the memory of those other kids bullying her in the rainbow room

[@minar3907]

@@mbm432 No, you can rewatch it, the memory that helped her overpower Vecna was the memory of her mom telling her "Jane, I love you" It's in the last 8-7 minutes of the episode.

[@rickbhai9829]

*the power of love* 🤣🤣

[@RajKumar-ud1hz]

I doubt it because El was not there in 1959

[@s.gallagher4851]

A theory, Vecna is using the therapist in the school to possess teen's minds. Note the therapist wears a grandfather clock necklace. Both Chrissy and Max visit the therapist

[@bonds927]

Theory, the mind flare used Will's memory of Hawkins to give Vecna the opportunity to strategize the perfect locations to open portals for the best chance to take over the world

[@loretaruisenor988]

Fred also visits her. She gives off weird vibes from the beginning. I don't trust her.

[@BarbieAllNightDance]

@@loretaruisenor988 I agree

[@morganb6717]

the school counselor provides the perfect opportunity to sift for troubled children and having had sessions with every victim was an immediate red flag. if this is an intentional red herring, i'd be happily surprised, because they made it a little too obvious.

[@nattyb9993]

That’s a good one - I didn’t see the clock necklace .. good shout!

[@Culley91]

One scene I wanna say that was underrated cause it wasn’t action packed was the whole mirroring of the younger kids riding their bikes in the real world to go to Eddie’s while the older kids Steve Nancy Robin and Eddie was riding bikes in the upside down to go to Eddie’s as well……that little shot was perfect

[@quinguyen4953]

As a person who loves photography and videography, I agree with you. I would like to ask the story telling at the end was the same where they switched between Vecna telling Nancy his story when he was a kid, and Henry telling Eleven the same story. That was amazingly directed and filmed.

[@Culley91]

@@quinguyen4953 oh I’m sorry you was asking ?

[@kyzowrld1]

I agree my dad had also suggested that the movie was filmed incredibly and I also go by that

[@greyLeicester]

Agreed. Action packed does not equal quality imho

[@jaicabryizky6987]

Right?? Where day and the camera from above them all their biking, been down in front of them and threw the ground / barrier and then up in front of the older kids on the other side? Yeah that was great directing / cinematography. Totally agree the biggest weakness of the season was the storytelling, trying to do too much with having four to five different story lines going at the same time, makes it harder to give a shit about the characters like Mike and will and Pizza Stoner dude on their Sideshow Quest LOL

[@elizabethduffy2145]

Hopper could be so vulnerable to Vecna since he thinks he’s cursed. It would be really touching to see Eleven coming into the Upside Down to save him, maybe trying to explain how much she loves him but it’s not getting through, then she starts singing ‘You don’t mess around with Jim’ and doing the awkward wee dance Hopper did when they were cleaning up the cabin. Then he remembers all the times he made Eleven happy, the times he made Joyce laugh, and pulling Will out of hell. He’s not a black hole, he’s a hero. That would be a hell of a scene.

[@mdsahnawazahmed]

That's hell of a thought ❤️

[@daniellek5238]

I actually cried!! What a theory!

[@Jay-bee663]

He deserves a happy ending

[@elizabethduffy2145]

@@Jay-bee663 he does, but I’m nervous for him tbh.

[@user-vg1yq9cu1k]

cool theory but Vecnas only after teens because they're easier to influence and less able to regulate their emotions. Vecnas a pretty obvious allegory for depression and suicide

[@shadowfox87]

Actually Dustin says that the Mind Flayer is still the boss. The demigorgon was the foot soldier and Vecna is a general. The upside down always existed since dawn of time as it is just a mirror dimension. El just opened a gate to it and sent One (Vecna) through it. The Mind Flayer is helping Vecna with its tentacles, amplifying its telekinetic reach. He is doing this because the Mind Flayer needs more gates to be opened to the real world.

[@letschatMwithJ]

I think vecna is actually the ruler just Dustin would have no way to know that

[@yacinealimi7808]

@@letschatMwithJ nah its def still the mind flayer, vecna was only sent to the upside down, but there mustve been something existing there already

[@DrHorribleishere12]

@@yacinealimi7808 I don’t think he was strong though, I think he was just an entity that existed there, you know. It wasn’t until One entered into the upside down and made everything as we know. The mind flayer is being controlled by vecna, his name is literally mind flayer which is bacically what vecna does to his victims, it all him. He controls it all

[@KC-py5vq]

@@DrHorribleishere12 nah, that would be a huge let down if the mindflayer is just a minion of vecna

[@blobbers1377]

yeah, he says the demogorgons a foot soldier and vecnas a five star general

[@kadarabdullahi]

If Chrissy's mother was emotionally abusive, her father must've been no help at all? That's why in her nightmare he was tied to a chair and had his mouth shut lol!

[@supergirl1214_]

True also his eyes were sewed hinting he sees everything but remains silent

[@iamV10010]

Nice catch

[@WeirdSnakeGal]

That was one of my thoughts too. He just let it happen because he probably is a coward and feels he has no power against his wife so he just gave up.

[@thetoughestcookie9312]

7:57 Small correction, we actually hear Lucas talk about the trauma that victims of Vecna face (this was after Patrick died). He says that Patrick once came to practice with a black eye, but refused to tell what happened. Patrick was most likely abused and traumatized, and possibly felt guilt over it.

[@khanaiiijahh23]

This also reminds me of Billy with his trauma from his abusive Dad when it came to the Mind Flayer. Interesting.

[@evelinramosmiranda619]

yeah and when they show vecna looking for victims you can hear patrick's dad asking him if he was out drinking again and thats when patrick got a headache on the car

[@aaroncornish9955]

Nice catch! Also.. Nancy isn’t physically transported to the pool, it’s a Psychological attack from Vecna

[@Sassssky]

@@aaroncornish9955 physiological would physical lol. You mean psychological

[@aaroncornish9955]

@@Sassssky so you got the context despite the grammatical error. Nice.

[@sailorgonewild]

The story telling at the end was brilliant where they switched between Vecna telling Nancy his story when he was a kid, and Henry telling Eleven the same story. That was amazingly directed and filmed.

[@davidkonevky7372]

Mild correction: the reason Eleven overpowered One was because she focused on a nice memory instead of a bad one. Instead of feeding off of negativity like One always did in his entire life, she did it with positivty.

[@donaldhavasy2356]

Yes and the doctor told the children, when he made them compete to push each other out of the circles, if they use fear or anger they will surely lose. Eleven defeats two in their exchange and Eleven did win that exchange using anger, which left me perplexed until I considered the idea the doctor wasn’t talking about the confrontation between the two children. He was preparing them for something else.

[@graydenday3760]

And it seemed as if Max got out of Vecnas curse by focusing on her loving memories of those closest to her.

[@pauljakeanderson3182]

For me, Karate Master Murray is so underated. Come on! He spared with 14 to 16 years old kids and he has no experience in real fights and yet he defeated several soviet soldiers by infiltrating and using his new karate skill. He is so buff tbh, one of my fav scenes and character development. After the last season, he knows he will be in danger and his friends after all what happened to hopper, hawkins and secret russian bases. Edited: Murray has a hidden character development after last season. Hopper was the muscle during their infiltration on the Russian underground base. Knowing that Hopper's gone and the fact that Russians can easily infiltrate in American soil, he prepared himself by learning karate.

[@Matthew-oj2mq]

@@asmabalaska2428 Ah yes because Stranger Things is know for it’s unrelenting realism.

[@FootsieEdits]

@@Matthew-oj2mq 🤣🤣 godly reply

[@robertsimon841]

I love Murray’s awkward badassery

[@TheRizzalante13]

He’s sort of like Steve in a way: super unlikely to win a fight, but still pulls it off in a super badass way.

[@annaisntcool]

murray stans rise up

[@thatfishguy4991]

Actually, according to Dustin, Vecna is just a general for the mindflayer. Apparently the last two beasts that Eleven has fought weren’t the mindflayer. I’m kinda annoyed with the whole mindflayer thing already.

[@JustJamesYT]

Yeah, thats the only thing I don't like. Literally everything is the mindflayer

[@FullMetalB]

They were minions of the mind flayer. That was always the case. Vecna being a whole new thing is a bit odd though. I dont know why there needed to be a whole separate villain in the upside down with its own origin and motivations along side the mind flayer. And now we know more about this new villain than we know about the mind flayer still.

[@ThinkStory]

My bad, I watched all the episodes in one day and I guess my "mind" fried. Pardon the pun.

[@Leviathan_Art]

@@FullMetalB technically Vecna wouldn't be new he would be the whole reason stranger things happens in the first place. Like what are you talking about? Since Vecna is 001 and we literally watched how eleven battled 001 ( which I'm curious if they have a telekinetic link which is why she was able to ) send him away. Plus children think simply, bad people go to bad places. " the upside down".

[@KC-py5vq]

@Fea†her when they make a character say things like that, it’s basically a fact..

[@GuilhermeOliveira-se3zh]

I was thinking… the only time that Vecna/001 lost was on episodes 4 and 7, against Max and Eleven, and what those 2 scenes have in common? Both Max and Eleven where remembering happy memories (Max with her friends and Eleven with her mother saying she loves her) before they could find the strength to defeat Vecna. It’s kinda like Vecna represents depression and the only way to fight it is with love and happiness, they give you strength to fight it. So yeah, my theory is that Eleven is going to kill Vecna for good using happy memories with her friends to fuel her powers

[@juanabeeditor089]

THISSSS-

[@kittenoutinspace]

Hopper will probably be the reason why Eleven will triumph over Vecna/001. Eleven explained how Hopper is her hero, and so she will be his hero in the fight against Vecna

[@thisuserdoesntexistg59]

except she didn’t use happy memories, that memory of her mother wasn’t a good one.it was literally her mother being torn apart from her

[@sylviagodsmith6957]

It's basically a beautiful representation of trauma vs will to live. Depression vs hope. That's what I love about stranger things, hidden symbolism.

[@jon_ovo3653]

That’s so lame😐

[@Eddie_M16]

Okay so hear me out, seeing as Ruth means friendship in Hebrew, and the name Ruth keeps coming up this season (Where Owens lives, The name Nancy uses when pretending to be a student to get an interview with Victor Creel, and the song Max uses to escape Vecna: Running Up that Hill - RUTH), maybe this is all foreshadowing for how Eleven is going to use her friendships to amplify her powers in the final battle with Vecna, I feel like she is going to go through all her memories of Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas and Max and then I feel like she is going to use the memories of Hop to make her powers strong enough to destroy Vecna. Just a thought

[@datlilbeanch5477]

@Tomer Horowitz ruth means friend, not friendship

[@razramot5552]

The only thing is that ruth dont translate to friendship or friend.... "Ruth" is a bibicle name writen as - רות Maybe he got Confused with "Reut" a common name that mean friendship or solidarity - רעות But they are very difrent

[@greyLeicester]

That would make sense if there was a connection in the series to the Jewish faith or the Hebrew language... as clever and observant as your comment is, it is a bit of a reach quite frankly 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@MeredithHagan]

Henry/One/Vecna is interesting because his early life follows the trajectory of what has become the archetypal serial killer - born during the Baby Boom to a father traumatized by the war and a mother that doesn’t know how to handle her son’s emotional problems, sociopathy, animal torture before moving on to humans, his mother and sister being his first victims, “daddy issues” (both with Victor and Brenner), bullying of other children. They clearly modeled his childhood after famous psychopaths like Gacy and Dahmer. The FBI task force that even coined the phrase “serial killer” was formed in 1979, the same year that Henry murdered all the Brenner children and Eleven banished him to the Upside Down. Also, she banished Henry in 1979 when she was eight, and didn’t escape the lab until 1983 when she was 12. A lot of people think they happened around the same time but there was a four year gap where she was in the lab as Brenner’s only subject. That’s why her speech patterns devolved a little, she didn’t have her siblings to socialize with anymore, for several years. Also, Patrick’s trauma was an abusive father, I think it was Lucas who supplied that information.

[@ironicly__iconic]

Very good. Though Darhma's childhood wasn't like that apparently. He did kill animals but he loved his parents and was a class clown at school. He didn't bully other children. Anyway, I agree 🙂

[@gokushkameha-ha-ha9344]

*you completely missed that his mother heavily neglected him, then resented him* That's a HUGE part of what pushes people to kill people

[@MeredithHagan]

@@gokushkameha-ha-ha9344 Maybe sometimes, but the overwhelming majority of people with shitty parents don’t become serial killers.

[@amandahallman1091]

Thank you for clarifying the time gap, bc I knew it wasn’t adding up either. Also, Eleven suffered a type of “stroke” that disrupted her memory, causing her to forget what happened (with 001) as well as simple things like how to speak.

[@KaziahKerenRose]

I dont fully agree with this in relation to explaining "Vecna" and the whole "Upside Down" thing. For me I actually believe Henry/One is a victim somehow as well. So we know El can also get into others minds just like One does. For eg with Billy as a kid last season. And im pretty sure she may do it again with Max in Volume 2.. Then, alluding to DnD the only way to defeat and lift this curse on Hawkins is to defeat "Vecna's curse" which requires a "20". However, to do that they have to somehow save One in order to have him help them. So maybe El has to actually get into One's mind in order to reveal what happened to him and why he was cursed originally to somehow reverse the curse. Then in season 5, Eleven, One and Eight (=20) will team up to defeat this curse on Hawkins and close all gates to the Upside Down.

[@mandalindream]

I honestly think its going to be Hoper being ALIVE that gives El the push to defeat Vectna. Vectna's power is based on sadness and anger... El's might be stronger cause while I think that core memory was sad i tmight have also been a happy one where her mom said she loved her. Which would be a totally 80s way to end it. ROFL

[@pathora4484]

When she fought One in the past she tried to use memories of anger and sadness to defeat him but he easily defeated her. It wasn't until she remembered her only happy memory where her mother told her she loved her was she able to defeat him. So when she does defeat Vecna it will probably be a montage of all her scenes with Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas, Max, Steve, Johnathan, Nancy, Joyce, and Hooper that will give her the power to defeat Vecna and whatever else is in the Upsidedown World once and for all.

[@mintani19]

Someone has to die. Like the main character in the last episode. And maybe at the very end, there will be a new problem. You know those 3 second sneak peaks at the end of the episode, like how season 3 had them where hopper was captured.

[@mintani19]

@Too.Biased.ToCareAnymore. no. Just no.

[@thatfishguy4991]

@@pathora4484 well there’s a fifth season so the upside down isn’t over uet

[@Gaatjenietsaaan]

Was thinking that too

[@kittenoutinspace]

Is it just me or do others think that Erica will also play a role in defeating Vecna? Idk, just a hunch from their DnD game foreshadowing Vecna's defeat. 🤷‍♂️

[@YenellyT]

yes since she's already helping, and she helped them figure out things at the mall last season

[@smsmsm16]

they better give lady applejack more screentime... i was so excited for her cus i thought she might be with the gang since the beginning of season 4.. but then she finally joined in to help in episode 6 or 7

[@replynotificationsdisabled]

You mean AIRWRECKA? LULZ

[@RealBradMiller]

Love her character.

[@salazar556]

I hope so because I love Erica! She's so funny.

[@lolabaker8197]

Doesn’t the black widow also have a sort of hour glass symbol on its back? Like the red thing? Seems fitting for the grandfather clock motif.

[@cherrymilk5590]

Holy shit

[@nimbusnimbus.IV.]

Only the female Black Widow's the hourglass, the males just a red dot or blobamd are not as lethal as the female.

[@cindyhurd5488]

brilliant thinking! 😀😳😃

[@badzs.]

Meaning that’s how he Got he’s powers WOAH

[@barbarasmith7432]

It does, doesn't it?

[@ninotria8042]

I would argue that the red space wasn't actually the upside-down, but a projection of Vecna's inner mind. The upside-down id a very solid place in the show.

[@something2b445]

Didn’t max say that first she was in her own mind, but then she went into vecnas

[@elliotmedina4455]

I wasn't thinking 11 opened a portal and that was the first portal we see ofnthe upside down. The one that everyone is always working on.

[@The-Beyonder]

1:38 so you clearly didn't pay attention or hear Dustin right. He said that the Mind Flayer is the supreme leader while the demogorgons are the foot soldiers and Vecna is his 5 star general. This is nothing more than Dustin's theory, but it is likely. The duffers also admitted long ago that the Mind Flayer is the big bad of the Upside down that always existed in there while 001 only got there in the late 70s. Logically and thematically Vecna would worship the Mind Flayer since he fits the image of what a god is to him since he looks like a spider and acts as like an invasive creature.

[@amandahallman1091]

Yeah. Sorta like God/ruler of the heavens & Satan/ruler of Hell (on Earth)

[@Cove_Blue]

I don't think he's the one that didn't pay attention lol

[@The-Beyonder]

@@Cove_Blue how?

[@The-Beyonder]

@@Cove_Blue and don't say something stupid like "Watch Vol. 2" when this was before Vol.2 came out and nobody knew anything

[@dakshbhatnagar]

We see in the trailer someone was playing Guitar in the upside down. From the episodes, we know Eddie is a guitarist hence he is gonna play a big role in defeating Vecna.

[@Pipapisca]

Music to keep everyone away from Vecna's evil words!

[@supergirl1214_]

True. It’s possible to guide Nancy in the upside down

[@exactly14ever]

i imagine its either a distraction or a way to neutralize the swarm of demo bats.

[@Nobody0102]

And i think he’s gonna do it to save nancy, then die there sacrificing himself. Because in the volume 2 trailer, there’s no eddie anymore. There’s only steve nancy and robin together. (i hope my theory is so wrong cuz i dont want eddie to die omg)

[@RyanKOnk]

@@Nobody0102 seems like it. an og character's death would be more meaningful tho.

[@Pain.-]

6:41 thats incorrect. Eleven tried it with the advice but she failed, it wasnt enough (This happened vers shortly before her newborn memory was shown). The "I love you" from her mom in her memory was what made her so strong. Also Brenner told the kids before that: "if you allow anger or emotion ... You will fail" something like that. Only because she relied on good memories, rather than infuriating or sad ones, was she able to be so much stronger than 001. Seen many people think she defeated him bc of the advice and thats just false so I thought Ill clear that up

[@kojiattwood]

Glad someone else pointed out that glaring omission.

[@mcokayiguess3879]

And of course this is going to play into Mike finally confessing he loves her at the most crucial climactic moment in Vol.2

[@blytheellis9768]

hopper being alive is def gonna be her main motivation for killing vecna

[@Pain.-]

@@blytheellis9768 yes 100% that and mike is probably gonna tell her that he loves her so thats maybe also gonna help

[@paularogolinska320]

uuuuu i think thats correct. when she hangs in the air, almost dead she somehow managed „to UNLOCK the memory that makes you both sad and angry” which IS the memory of being born aka being separeted from the mothers womb. i believe ST creators made it kinda freudian, i like it, ill stand by it

[@beatles9588]

Kind of reminded me of the Tom Riddle - Voldemort storyline, interestingly enough.

[@benvlerick8303]

Brought to you by the actor who played Grindelwand haha. Small world.

[@Mr.PepeSilvia]

Definitely, I also got Harry/Lilly vibes when El remembered her mother and overpowered 001

[@YenellyT]

yes! I see the similarities!

[@Rachhlaur]

BITCH I THOUGHT THE SAME THING! I was like uh…Tom riddle?!

[@official_wonnie]

Vecna and Voldemort both don't have a nose so yeah lots of similarities

[@DIRTYPRODiGY]

The dimension where the victims of Vecna ended up isn't the upside down. It is a separate dimension where only the victim and Vecna exist (most likely a guilt conscious/memory dimension) since the body of the victims are still in the actual world while their mental state aren't. When the others traveled through the watergate (or any other "gates"), their bodies do not remain in the actual world but they are teleported to the upside down. In the case of Vecna's victims, they didn't.

[@jojo5986]

It's just a picture in your mind

[@ameonna8168]

Maybe more like a dream?

[@ZekeThePlumber86]

I'm so glad Murray has a prominent role in this season. I love him!

[@DatVo-tl2dw]

the 001 plotline not only connects to everything dating season 1, but is also so clever and interesting. love it love it love it

[@nightbluerose1333]

Lucas mentioned that he saw Patrick with a black eye on at least one occasion and that Patrick said he just tripped: maybe he was beaten at home?

[@ThinkStory]

Ohh, interesting!

[@dreamonstardust]

@@ThinkStory We also hear what is presumably Patrick's father saying something along the lines Patrick being a disappointment. This happens when Vecna is scanning for victims, and ends his search on Patrick in the car with the other jocks.

[@official_wonnie]

One thing I didn't get was that Vecna was holding both Max and Patrick hostage at the same time. Patrick eventually got killed since he couldn't reach Max but they were both cursed at the same time period

[@soleynate]

@@official_wonnie he had all of them cursed at the same time at one point right ?

[@official_wonnie]

@@soleynate no what I recollect is that once he curses someone he will kill the person that he cursed and hunt the person down and then go after someone else. But the weird part is is that he hunted down Patrick and Max at the same time. Chrissy and Fred were apart from each other in visions. Fred saw them happening after Chrissy died, and Patrick heard his first one while Max had it already as well

[@Memehuskie]

If max saw el being bullied and humiliated she would kick Angelina ass

[@CH3FDIZZYLO]

Those people made me so mad 😡

[@CanadianShishaGuru]

I love how this season is also explaining how season 1 got started..the original portal was opened by el when killing henry..also how great is it that the main dude kill people in a sleep trance and his father is freddy krueger actor ...thats soo cool

[@cinnamon0atz]

I thought el opened the portal when she was underwater and touched the demogorgen in her mind?

[@CanadianShishaGuru]

@@cinnamon0atz oh right...but it stil is the first gate to the otherside

[@andis60]

I don't think El escaped at this point. She was the only kid there for awhile. Brenner hadn't really started working with her in the tank yet. She was barely coming into her powers. Notice the dark mark left in the wall where One disappeared. I think that is where the gate is eventually and they end up building their observation room around the Rainbow Room. Eleven is much smaller in those memories. More like maybe 7 or 8 years old. She escapes when she is more like 12 or 13.

[@jessicanalainy15]

@@andis60 thank you for this, I was wondering the entire time why the portal looks to be in a different location season 1 than it does in season 4

[@somerandomchannel382]

I'm not even sure that "the upside down" existed before the confrontation with El. They might use it as a weird reason in the ending but it would make less sense. Henry view on the world explained his own psychological struggle but also beliefs. And he isn't wrong. The world is in disorder thanks to humans. This is - 100% - true. The cruelty of how we gain food today is beyond hellish proportions. The ideology how everything in this world is created to control. Is also true. The ways a human life is about education - job - pension - death is true as well. Also the weirdest part is how we still have the same look on life as thousands years ago. Not in every manner, but in many. Humans learn we are incapable of doing mostly anything but still news papers shows us daily updates about everything. Does any news articles gives us any ways to change things? No. Instead we go our job, at our office and talks about things that doesn't really concern our state in the world. We elect people to bring justice in the world, but instead are puppets controlled by people outside the public space. And we aren't stupid. We all knows this is happening, all time. But it easier to forget the cruelty and harshness in reality and focus on a baby's smile or a daughter first step in the grass field. We are constantly also manipulated by media and cooperation's to act and behave as they want us too. And if we don't they put even more effort to control us. Not the individuals thoughts - but the group thinking. … There is other ways too. I seen a family life on a boat in Caribbean, just vloging their life and having fun. Just like Henry they see the world as possibility to do other things as well. A father called him "sensitive". I would more or less call his father someone who wanted to control his child. And when that didn't happen what was about to happen? They wanted to send him to the "prison" to be studied. Like a lab rat. A place where they torture him, or manipulate him until he displayed the "powers" he had. And what did they do thereafter? They created copies of him. All subjects from 02-13 are copies of Henry created inside artificial way. They also locked him in. You notice how old "Henry" is? Imagine being forced to be a prisoner in such a place as that was. Only surrounded by copies of yourself. And being forced to be a "guard". Also one more thing. When "Henry" is talking to El it is in adult view of the world. We never hear Henry say anything when he was younger. The one time we hear Henry talk is when he: 1. Had a short youth been seen as different and even his family was about to sent him to mental prison to be studied. 2. He had killed his family with powers to more or less for real reason. a) Escape the prison he was gonna be sent to. b) Frame his father for the crime. c) Walk free and continue a different path. However even his plan did become reality. He didn't walk free. He was sent to Hawkins prison. And what happen there when he was young? We have no idea. But I don't think it was anything nice. Then who was the "children" we saw at Hawkins? The 02-13? Copies. Basically clones, artificially created based on his DNA. Then the ultimate fate is to lock his powers and keep him there to as guard, but also a prisoner. So when Henry speaks to El. He been subjected to indiscernible torment his entire life. Henry is a frozen, prisoned mind with one thing in his conscience. Escape. and Revenge. For god knows how many years. There's no mind flayer creating this scenario. This is as real as it gets to Hell. He hasn't seen a girl, he never went on dates, he hasn't had any "normal" life at all. Just like the test-tube babies in Homelander series but without anything thereafter. Anyone. I repeat. Anyone here on this comment field would do probably the same as he did in Hawkins lab having those experiences. Apart from killing the child subjects maybe. But with all lack of emotional connection he had. How the "F" would he be able to care for anyone. What I'm saying is... just adding the spoiled notion that "Oh poor henry was controlled by a mind flayer" would remove the whole impact on ... "Something is different, lets study it, then kill it" mentality that was present during 1950s in hospitals and mental institutions .

[@maggiedunn7167]

I was wondering how they were going to use Jamie Campbell Bauer. He was too good of an actor to be just an orderlie. He is so good in this

[@karolina285]

When I saw him on the screen I was like "well that's a surprise" 😁 And I figured it out quickly that he is 001 but him being son of Victor Creel and also Vecna was a complete shock. And I agree,he is great in that role

[@StLProgressive]

Once I recognized him I knew that character was gonna be a baddie.

[@jonesy2892]

I thought the same thing. His overall presence as an actor seemed just too much for such a small role.

[@jasminelopez9711]

@@karolina285 same

[@jacksonthatman525]

I think that when Will has taken to the upside down. Vecna used Will to create a parallel world that resembles the real world further explaining why it is stuck at that time. Also makes sense why Will wasn’t killed

[@jon_ovo3653]

Will was almost killed though same way as barb

[@YenellyT]

makes sense that the world was created when will was gone, but I think it happened when el opened the gate

[@peepee9446]

No. When eleven opened the gate, in 1983 she opened it the day will went missing. Once it opened it got “stuck” in that time. That’s why everything in the upside down is from 1983

[@Curiosity.o]

@@peepee9446 No, when El sent 001/vecna through the gate after their fight, that was when the very first gate was opened

[@ndongengone7284]

@@Curiosity.o You didn't understand what he was explaining. A portal was opened in 1979 for the very first time, it was through this portal that 001 was sent to the Upside Down. This portal has been closed. Later in 1983, El opens a portal again while she is in the bath and this portal will remain open for a long time, it is from this portal that the demogorgon will escape which will capture Will. But 1979 to 1983 number 001 had time to assimilate things from the Upside Down and when the portal was opened for the second time in 1983, it is not known if that was when place an update of the Upsie Down to make it look like the town of Hawkins at that time or it was when Will was captured and taken to the Upside Down that his mind was used to remodel the Upside Down at this time of 1983.

[@TonySamedi]

Thoughts on the eventual final battle. It will mirror a lot of the final battle with Vecna from the D&D game. He will take down seemingly everyone, one will distract Vecna while someone else gets the final blow to kill him. I'm wondering if Eddie will be the big distraction, or somehow get the final blow himself. Basically him playing a rogue, sneaking around, seemingly cowardly, until he can sneak attack for massive damage. (Possibly while Vecna is entirely focused on El)

[@utkarshagrawal9832]

I think it will be Eddie and Dustin who will district veccna because you see that Eddie was Playing guiter at hill top were Dustin was singing never ending story

[@TonySamedi]

@@utkarshagrawal9832 ah very good call. No way they set up Eddie loving his guitar to not have that come back somehow.

[@official_wonnie]

@@utkarshagrawal9832 its Eddie on his trailer though. But I think its like a parallel from season 3. Instead of Dustin & Suzie its Eddie. What i think though is that Suzie joins the party to find El because no one else knows the exact coordinates then Suzie does as she is the smartest of all of them at this point besides Will having a secret code knowledge. And if Suzie comes with them she must come with them to Hawkins and perhaps Dustin and Suzie are gonna sing again that makes Eddie turn up the volume with his guitar so they play a whole ass 'never ending story' song to distract Vecna

[@utkarshagrawal9832]

@@official_wonnie Dustin is also there I saw in some trailer he was fighting with bats while Eddie was playing guiter up there

[@gustavnordenskiold1252]

@@utkarshagrawal9832 he was playing the guitar on top of a trailer in the trailer park

[@WALKERxBAIT]

I don’t like the idea of Hopper dying for good, it would feel pointless to have these characters go through that loss last season only for them to reunite this season only for him to die again? I think if anyone were to actually die this season it would be either Steve or Max.

[@Michelala]

I think it’s going to be Eddie. He’ll sacrifice himself to save others, thus completing his zero to hero story arch.

[@jackselle4607]

I couldn’t agree more, I think it will definitely have the hero arch with Eddie. They want to build on the Joyce/Hopper relationship/family. I don’t think he’ll die.. again

[@bigload6]

Steve will die saving Nancy in the upside down

[@Michelala]

@@bigload6 doubt it. Killing Steve would likely piss off too many fans and they’ll lose viewers

[@iamV10010]

Or Nancy...

[@MistyUnicorn666]

Season 4 was epic! They really turned it up a notch in terms of the graphic scenes and imagery. The deaths were disturbing and there was a heck of a lot of torture! I also got Carrie vibes when El was being bullied and I also got Nightmare on Elm street vibes before Robert England was introduced.

[@bababooey.26]

yes!! i didn’t even think of carrie, it’s the perfect comparison to El! great catch

[@thinlion01]

@@bababooey.26 beginning of this video he uses Carrie audio and a clip of Carrie in pigs blood lol.

[@thumper5839]

Also the plot and writing were superb

[@jessn7034]

Also It vibes when they go in to Vecnas house. Vecna is a lot like It, he uses kids fears etc to gain power. In the original novel the kids killed It with love and thats the one up 11 has on vecna, memories of love. Also, in the end of the book It aka pennywise turned into a big spider.

[@Randomperson-zt3il]

@@jessn7034 Thank god I wasn’t the only one thinking the Creel house was similar to the house in IT!

[@jordanloophole]

I think Will's paintings are visions. We all know he loves drawing. Remember in the first season where he drew the vines that lead to the upside down? I think the mind flayer is still giving him signs or something.

[@jasonviner8259]

I think's Will painting is based on him being gay and his feelings regarding Mike.

[@giggleschad1484]

@@jasonviner8259 wtf, you think Will turns into the guy in wedding crashers who painted Vince Vaughn and wanted to play tummy sticks? Lol

[@lorealiiiii]

@@giggleschad1484 what…

[@giggleschad1484]

@@lorealiiiii have you ever seen wedding crashers? The gay guy who drew a picture of a shirtless vince Vaughn? Lol

[@swissgoat4981]

Honestly I think Will does have feelings for Mike based on how he acted with him early in the season. Plus the way he said "best friends" and his jealousy of Mike spending all his time with El.

[@LaineyBug2020]

I liked watching Nancy and Robin become friends!

[@jonnyquezt1651]

Favorite season so far. Not perfect, but Vecna has his hooks in me. Also, Hopper should have been “hopping” everywhere with them busted ass feet, but I can forgive it when the storytelling has been so satisfying.

[@louisepreacely6161]

He was a war vet maybe he been through it

[@Cody-lc5ws]

@@louisepreacely6161 I can almost certainly guarantee he didn't have previous experience walking in an arctic environment on a broken ankle from the environment where he was mixing Agent Orange in the Vietnam War lol. That said, not a big deal, all things considered. It kind of lines up with my head canon that the characters, as a party, have been 'leveling up' over the past seasons, with Steve, Murray, and Hopper now essentially high level martial class characters.

[@louisepreacely6161]

@@Cody-lc5ws actually he might have both my father and grandfather are vets my grandfather fought in world War 2 they say they would mace them leave them underground no food and all type of stuff so they would be ready for battle its possible but u know he had to survive for the plot

[@replynotificationsdisabled]

@@Cody-lc5ws broke his foot. A broken ankle won't help shackles being slipped off.. haha. Dude ain't "not" walking anywhere with 2 broken feet without showing pain. And they snow? Nothing bothers me worse than digital snow.

[@idrisahmed2659]

Yea i think hopper shudnt have been in such mint condition after the painful things he had to endure ... He wouldn't be getting up for a few weeks .... That too in that snow .... But he gets to reunite with Joyce so ... Ok

[@SuperBeasto303]

This season is so amazing, perfect combination of nightmare on elm street, IT and Goonies.

[@jasonviner8259]

I enjoyed seeing Freddy playing a character in this since he was a big deal in 80s movies (nightmare on elm street).

[@mak2488]

This season, especially episode 7 is the most effectively jaw dropping television I have ever seen. Unbelievable storytelling, cinematography, mystery and effects. Astonishing production. Will be hard to top it. Like….holy shit. The reveal in episode 7 had me genuinely shocked. Chills.

[@gregorytreacy7085]

The cinematography was god like, the inversion for the upside down scenes was perfect how can they top this going into volume 2

[@ieatsofttacosforbreakfast1600]

I agree the scene with the demogorgon and how well it was produced easily deserves a award.

[@louskunt1066]

@@ieatsofttacosforbreakfast1600 nah the bit where hes transforming into vecna was goated by far

[@carolynk3100]

I was especially amazed at 001 and his acting, so terrifying in the best way possible. I wasn’t expecting any of it

[@dudestravel8934]

It is very impressive, Best TV show for 2022 easily. Wish people don’t password sharing too much, netflix deserve to get paid at least for month of june and july. They’ve been giving us great show this summer. Stranger things, Lincoln lawyer and umbrella academy fo sure will be great also. Just do it on disney plus they’re shows been shit anyway it should be free lol

[@SitchBlap]

Kinda think the parents and ton are gonna have to step in and help defend the town with fireworks and fire. They make it a huge point to remind us about fire being a weakness. So, I think the kids are gonna have to spill the beans to the adults.

[@grapes9h5]

The Mind-Flayer, the true one, is I think still the supreme monster boss above Vecna, like Dustin said. This Mind-Flayer is a truly otherworldly being of unknowable origin. However my theory is that Vecna/001/Henry “summoned” it - bringing it into what became the upside down. It’s the Black Widow god he’s always worshiped/wished to become or become one with. When Eleven fought Henry in 1979 she created the very first gate by “inverting” Henry and their powers. The red lighting represents this Anti-Matter universe as it actually existed. It’s possible this is the true source of both Eleven and Henry’s powers, which is why pushing them to their max causes such tears, thus the gate. Henry was powerful enough to not only survive though but unleash his true power, summoning/bonding with the Mind Flayer. The Mind-Flayer helped him reconstruct his body, thus becoming Vecna. Then then began reshaping the place to be the shadow Hawkins it became while also breeding their minion creatures. Meanwhile The Hawkins lab was experimenting with Eleven at the rear until s1’s events happened in 83. For reasons I still don’t know what to do with, the Upside Down Hawkins froze in time when this happens as well.

[@nunualma8230]

nice theory, I prefer this considering all the set facts and history in the series.

[@chickenbreast2221]

I think u could be right about this. I guess we’ll know on July 1st

[@grapes9h5]

@@chickenbreast2221 thanks! Yeah I think we’ll for sure by the end of 9

[@opiecookie8951]

Can you explain why eleven didn’t know how to speak in the first season? She didn’t know what anything was, they had to teach her words.. but in the flash backs she was speaking at the lab

[@grapes9h5]

@@opiecookie8951 We’re experiencing the scenes through current Eleven. In actuality, in the past, she might have been saying less

[@PerfectDark0]

Loved the Carrie reference at the beginning.

[@Jamie31166]

Henry’s whole philosophy can be summed up as “We live in a society”.

[@Saintdidntdoit]

1. The symbolism of depression vs the will to live is beautiful and impactful . 2. Max almost losing her life then coming back to her friends and Lucas made me wanna cry. 3. Will is so gay

[@Michelala]

I think Eddie is going to be the one to die. He sacrifices himself to save others, thus completing his zero to hero story arch

[@stevendarniel]

EXACTLY!!!

[@djack915]

And he's playing a mean 🎸 on top of a trailer !!! Seems like a SERIOUS distraction to kill Venca !

[@Luvly975]

I think so too. There is no way for him to be able to prove he isn't the murderer of Chrissy, Fred and the basketball kid for the ppl of Hawkins to accept. If he survives the upside down, he will never have a peaceful life as a free man. And making him live his life in jail wouldn't seem fair to me.

[@davidkrapensits4367]

Walking dead syndrome every new character eventually dies hate to see it

[@TheRizzalante13]

Also, if he survives, he will most likely be convicted for the murders of Chrissy, Fred, and Patrick. So yeah, there isn’t anything in it for him if he lives.

[@Gaatjenietsaaan]

I recommend everyone to whatch season one straight after four. Everything makes so much more sense. But also the gentle similarities. 1 example, Nancy binding the wound of Jonathan and asking if it’s to tight and than slowly fall in love happens too in season 4 but with Steve

[@prussianwossun9152]

Well spotted

[@opiecookie8951]

Can you explain why eleven didn’t know how to speak in the first season? She didn’t know what anything was, they had to teach her words.. but in the flash backs she was speaking at the lab

[@Gaatjenietsaaan]

@@opiecookie8951 she doesn't speak really great that time line, but she could speak. She didn't had a caring household but she definitely was raised. I guess they just teached her enough to communicate. But indeed, her new friends and family needed to teach her a lot. She was never in situations of friendship and love so everything was quit new and scary. I think because she was nervous most days of that week she also had issues with talking. But that's just my theory

[@shahzebafzal3833]

I just finished volume 1 of season 4. It took me a while to remember all the relationships and lore from seasons 1-3 since its been a while. I was contemplating on whether I should watch them again or not to fully experience season 4 to its best potential but now you might have just drawn me to watching it again.

[@replynotificationsdisabled]

@@opiecookie8951 just flawed writing. Like.. why did this antagonist come out of nowhere? It's been 2 plus years and he's supposedly a problem now. Ugh... And people give me shit for liking Westworld. At least its writing is near perfect.

[@peepoFlavor]

Eddie has to be that dude from the trailer playing the guitar in the upside down

[@mariraaaww4007]

He is

[@Nostalgio]

That is him

[@Magicalnora]

I see a guy with no nose, immediately thinks it's Red Skull

[@LeleJackMusic]

Even after Season 4 Part II, we'll be getting a final Season 5. I can only imagine where things will go in the final season. I really liked Stranger Things before, but Season 4 tied so many things together and I'm so in love with the series now.

[@noahlefebvre29]

The Mind Flayer is still the mastermind of the Upside Down, 001 was only sent to the Upside Down by Eleven when he massacred the facility and that’s when he turned into Vecna. Mind Flayer would have already been there. They likely made a deal or something, I’m sure we will see more in Volume 2.

[@bigload6]

Doubt it, Vecna/001 built everything in the upside down to fight 011 (including the mind flayer)

[@Dupylo]

@@noahlefebvre29 whats ur point? Dustin also said that vecna responds to the mind flayer smtn like that meaning that the mind flayer is stronger and will most likely be the end boss fight for season 5, If vecna was the main villian, the ruler of upside down then season 4 would be the last season

[@noahlefebvre29]

@@Dupylo you need better reading comprehension. I literally said the Mind Flayer is in charge.

[@Dupylo]

@@noahlefebvre29 i replied to someone who deleted their comment, not u

[@zelkovabright7723]

Yeah for some reason everybody thinks they defeated the mind flayer in season 3? I thought it was pretty obvious that the giant meat spider was just a physical proxie for the shadow monster, not the actual shadow monster. It’s always been the overarching evil of the series.

[@idfk8268]

I have a feeling Steve is going to die saving Nancy and I don’t like it

[@L154N4LG4IB]

Love triangles have to resolve themselves somehow

[@idfk8268]

@@L154N4LG4IB threesome?

[@brennafreeman5814]

Steve would try but Eddie likely would jump in saving both Steve and Nancy

[@stevenguzzo]

Henry creel's transformation into vecna is similar to Anakin Skywalker's turning into Vader

[@JosephHandibode]

Except Anakin Skywalker was good natured at first and was hero who turned bad. This kid was bad from start that naturally turned into vecna

[@wilsongoodfellow8113]

no not really lmao

[@MrTway88]

It'd be kind of pointless for Hopper to be presumed dead, just so he can be found alive and saved, and then die for real this time.

[@RamonIRL]

Who is your fave character in Season 4 and why? kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXnIiYGKoLGeaK8

[@Sammy-cm9ce]

Patrick was getting abused at home. Lucas said he saw Patrick with a black eye once and he said he fell.

[@TheOfficialEpicTree]

Henry is scarily similar to a Sith, he may as we be called Darth Vecna.

[@jasminelopez9711]

Exactly what I was thinking very much Anakien vibes , honestly even more evil

[@monstertruckscanada]

Did no one realise when they showed the guy recording Eleven on the Skating Rink that the timestamp in the bottom left says March 22nd 1986? In Season 1 Joyce mentions that Will's birthday is March 22nd. It wasn't mentioned once in the episodes!

[@BaDazai]

Oh no, so they forgot?

[@Michelala]

I caught that too! I was mad cause I have the same bday as Will and it was always overshadowed by March break when I was a kid lol

[@kookieuniversal21]

Oh shit

[@leaphymoon9881]

@@BaDazai more like it was overshadowed by them coming to visit. Mike got caught up with El and even Johnathen told him to enjoy his day as if it belonged to him. In the end so much shit happened that there was no time to even remember. It's also probably why Will was so dejected and felt like a third wheel.

[@jessicanalainy15]

The writers admitted on twitter they forgot 😂

[@Corneilus1]

“Frequently loses her kids”. Laughed way too hard😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

[@ronaldreggie5511]

i missed a day at work just to binge this show ngl 😭

[@devo23466]

Did doctor brenner know eleven didn’t kill all the kids before she found out? At first it’s shown he blames eleven for the deaths but then it seems he knew the whole time it was not her. Does he know about vecna and who he is ?

[@mambamike5627]

Well he would know that obviously 001 killed everyone but the only person with that connection to who he is would be Nancy at the moment

[@zeratul____1228]

He likely doesn't know who Vecna is since that mystery is currently only solved by Nancy, because Brenner and Eleven don't know even know about Vecna just that there is an evil attacking the town.

[@stafraszka]

I think the "what have you done" is regarding the portal he can see on the wall, not the bodies.

[@kristydavis3988]

I think he ask what have you done? Because she set number one free, resulting in the Slaughter of all the children, plus the portal.

[@watchesandcaps2566]

Brenner knew and that's the memory he was trying to get her to remember in the Nina machine.

[@A4S2HI994]

My final theory on the Upside Down, Henry and Mind Flayer: *Point 1: Upside Down is Henry's Mind* The mind of each person is a dimension itself. The clash of powers between Eleven and Henry was so violent that it opened a direct portal to Henry's twisted mind by physically connecting his inner world with reality and locking him inside his own mind. Henry IS "Upside Down". The name would make even more sense since it would be a mind that contains its own body instead of being a body containing the mind as is normal. In addition, that dimension and its entire ecosystem have always been conceived as a great hive mind, the vines themselves could be a physical representation of his neural network. *Point 2: Henry's Objective* It is known that Henry hated the reality in which he lived and believed himself superior. No wonder he wanted to create a new world tailored to his tastes in which he was a god. According to Henry himself, his victims "live" inside him. It can be assumed, then, that what Henry does is absorb the consciousness/soul of his victims, after weakening, damaging and corrupting them with psychological torture. In this way, by assimilating into his own mind that of his victims, he adds more terrain to the Upside Down by incorporating the dark parts of the people he kills, which, surely, increases his own power. His ultimate goal, probably, is to expand his "ideal world" by consuming the minds/dimensions of everybody and substituting physical reality for his own reality. *Point 3: Relationship between Vecna ​​and the Mind Flayer* If all of the this is true, every creature native to the Upside Down is part of Henry's mind, including the Mind Flayer. In other words, the Mind Flayer could be the representation of Henry's consciousness fused with the corrupted minds of all his victims, something like the true form of his "soul", and Vecna ​​would be nothing more than his physical body trapped inside his own mind. This would explain why the Mind Flayer is shaped like a spider. In fact, Vecna ​​is probably perfectly capable of escaping from the Upside Down but, being Henry's body, Vecna ​​is his only weak point, since if he is destroyed, Upside Down will disappear, so he prefers to stay safe within his own dimension and act from the distance.

[@POTUSOA]

Good stuff!

[@nxlix.x5424]

when 001 said him and eleven are alike, it made me think how much they actually are alike. despite the age difference, they have the same powers and were both said to be dead while brenner just took them to test on them. in season 2, we got to know that eleven's mother was told eleven died which was a lie, the same thing happened to 001, in episode 4 when nancy and robin went to talk with victor creel, he said that he was told his son died a week after the incident in hospital which obviously wasn't true. it was the same lie brenner used with eleven.

[@maddy4690]

after reading your comment, the one i can remember is sara. Like they also lied about her death maybe cuz i read a theory. Didnt they bring her to HNL? (like i saw a theory like the stairs where hopper was crying was a HNL stairs). So does that mean sara is also a number and that she's alive?

[@nxlix.x5424]

@@maddy4690 in one of season 4 episodes, hopper said that all the guys who were with him and had children, their children got some disadvantages, or even died shortly after birth, but sara was completely healthy, of course it might just been a coincidence but maybe they found out she had some kind of shield?? (like bella’s power in twilight that protected her from other’s powers, sorry i cant think of better example💀) but even if she was one of the numbers, which she probably wasnt because we saw her with shaved hair (in a flashback in season 1) and none of the kids at the lab looked like her + she would be like almost an adult by the time eleven was in the lab, even if she was one of the kids, she’s most probably dead rn because 001 killed all the kids before his fight with eleven

[@maddy4690]

@@nxlix.x5424 oh you are right. But i can 100% say she definitely had some connection with HNL and upside down.

[@StellarMonstrosity]

@@nxlix.x5424 I'm pretty sure 008 is alive

[@nxlix.x5424]

@@StellarMonstrosity yeah cause she escaped before this happened

[@mmem4264]

The way I understood the whole Nancy thing is she didn't go anywhere, she's still standing in front of Steve right at the exit in a trance state, Vecna grabbing her consciousness like he did with his other victims. Since Nancy is no longer haunted by guilt over Barb's death (why her interest in Steve is even possible now) thanks to s2, she's able to leave the pool and enter Vecna's consciousness pretty quickly. Honestly it felt like Vecna was really scrapping the barrel to trance her lol. Hopefully someone plays Nancy's fav song so she can snap out of it now that she's got all that backstory info.

[@PossibleBat]

I think everyone forgets that Eleven is not the true main character of Stranger Things, it’s Will. He was the first one to come in contact with the Upside Down and survive. Not only do I believe Will is another “chosen one”, but the main objective of the Mindflayer, Vecna and all other hiveminded creatures in the Upside Down like Demodogs/Demogorgons. The Mindflayer has already told him they want everyone dead but Him, and the Demogorgons didn’t kill him when he was in the Upside Down, Vecna is the only character we know that does not belong to the Hivemind of the Mindflayer, he is an individual who was turned in the Upside Down. He must be working with the Mindflayer with the objective to get Will. Their only enemy is Eleven. I think Vecna sees Will as another Eleven, the one who will not betray him, but join him. We’ve seen Will’s refusal to grow up and mature, he is stuck in real life, harboring jealousy towards Eleven’s relationship with his "former" best friend Mike. They are waiting for Will to crack and the fina, decision will be in Will’s hands to either join Vecna and the Mindflayer or join Eleven and Mike and continue on with his life.

[@nickhanif5460]

I love how this season explains a lot of points from season 1 but there’s still a lot I’d like to be answered. How did the demogorgan just capture and not kill will? How did he survive in the upside down? Did they ever explain where the sister (7 or 8) was during these experiments and how did she leave before the massacre? How did the Russians discover the gate/upside down?

[@solm.6184]

i have the same questions!! i feel like the creators completely forgot about her “sister” lmao WAIT IM BACK. one of the kids said that “remember when the last 008?” or something along the lines. 8 escaped and replaced

[@annbsirius1703]

When One tells El about her mother he says something like Do you remember that woman's visit when 8 was still here? She had already escaped by the massacre.

[@elektrogenin]

I think Will stayed alive in the Upside down only because he sang his favourite song “should I stay or should I go” 8 somehow escaped the lab before the massacre,we don’t know for sure how,maybe with the help of 001,but I doubt it Soviets probably infiltrated the high ranking US seats and had the intel on this secret government led experiment,and after the failure in Hawkins,they decided to open the gate in Chernobyl, because Chernobyl disaster was in April 26 1986,and this season started I believe in March 1986,so it can’t be a coincidence

[@jonesy2892]

Will survived by hiding in the woods near his home. I think he was just lucky. The sister, 008, escaped prior to the 1979 massacre by using her mind powers over the guards. The Russians likely learned about the gate because there were spies during the Cold War and they were seeking intel on the US government.

[@alx.7k]

@@elektrogenin You’re a genius! All of this makes sense

[@alejandroangel998]

I would want that in the s4 finale they lost and at the beginning of s5 we see the repercussions of it; much like Endgame.

[@lukeryan1934]

Always a great journey. They’d have to lose even more in season 5 tho

[@alejandroangel998]

@@lukeryan1934 exactly, and end with a high note defeating the Demogorgon King, like the Avengers did with Thanos.

[@lukeryan1934]

@@alejandroangel998 think killing of eleven to secure the end of war maybe?

[@LaineyBug2020]

I want to know how the Russian captured Demogorgon couldn't open gates when the one from season one could, and thus couldn't be contained.

[@eggyyoke1072]

@@w6341 I think they are talking about the potal in the tree that Nancy went through and the portal that it opened in Joyce's house both in season 1. Because as far as I can tell Eleven didn't open those up.

[@jordanadams9098]

@@eggyyoke1072 I think it’s the same concept, just not as specific. A normal demogorgon can’t open gates on its own, but the one in season one could, because it had a link with Eleven. So basically they need a strong psychic connection with someone to gain the ability to open gates, and don’t need El to actually open it. (Also remember the gates the first demogorgon opened were just temporary, while the main portal El made was permanent)

[@binkyboohoo3906]

It seems as well (spoiler if you haven’t seen the volume 2 trailer) that they’ve also captured the mind flayer and put him in a glass holding cell

[@LaineyBug2020]

@@w6341 So maybe, they had someone go through the portal they opened at Starcourt and somehow capture a demigorgon without a psychic link, maybe as a pollywog, and found a way to contain it. I forgot it doesn't like heat, if they knew that (and I'm guessing they did by their reaction to Hopper's torch) it would have been easy to rig something up to contain it. This is what I love about talking to other fans!

[@AbhayRajKarun]

@@binkyboohoo3906 where the f? i can't fuck vol 2 trailer

[@liamsgro2640]

Crazy theory. 001 turns will bad. Think about it. They “relate” don’t fit in, misunderstood, Will is clearly not into women, I think he’s got something for mike and will be rejected, 001 could use that and convince will he should join him. That would be a pretty crazy cliff hanger

[@constelic]

and noah schnapp was in a harness in the behind the scenes photos from possibly being lifted in the air by vecna

[@priceringo1756]

It won't happen because The Message can't allow alphabet characters to be portrayed with depth. I mean in a bad light.

[@devo23466]

What would vecna gain from that. Him having will join him doesn’t mean anything because he is just a kid. He seems to want to cure humanity not befriend a random kid

[@jessicapalhares8436]

I doubt they would end Will's arc like that, he's already suffered so much in the upside down, it seems sadistic. No, he already had his beginning, middle and end of the upside down world. As Millie said in an interview, the script flipped the casting scenario, some kids who dealt with evil now have to deal with ordinary high school stuff. Will's arc is understanding his feelings, possibly realizing that he's in love and that helps end the strange discomfort between him and Mike 🙏🏼

[@Camilla550]

That’s definitely an interesting thought, I know Noah has said Will deals with more emotional issues this season but I’m wondering if he’s just saying that to throw us off too. He was seen in harness behind the scenes so I’m definitely hoping he’ll have more screen time in Vol 2 🤞🏻

[@jomada1493]

There's something everyone seems to have missed, Nancy is not back in the upside down. She's just having a vision because she's now the next victim of Vecna.

[@user-vg1yq9cu1k]

this dude made a video about a season he barely understood lmao

[@Hernborg]

But she is still in the upside down. She never went through the portal. So she is standing in the upside down, having a vision about being in another location, in the upside down…..

[@michaelwilliams8242]

She never left the upside down. He tranced her before she could climb out

[@decoydamsel]

I feel for Chrissy because that's also how I reacted to Eddie Munson. (Also Lucas tells Max after Patrick's death that he suspected that he had an abusive homelife)

[@sardonicapple5369]

The product placement song was a perfect “I get that reference” moment.

[@kishore4274]

001 is 1 in decimal from gray code, 011 is 2 similarly. Maybe there’s a reason why 011 (el)’s more stronger being the 2nd iteration.

[@kishore4274]

+ gray code is also known as reflected binary like “upside down” binary.

[@justicebeske5704]

Wow you got this written and edited and season 4 came out like yesterday, you guys are on it.

[@lochofmceo]

Most reviewers got the eps like a week before us

[@justicebeske5704]

@@lochofmceo Oh I didn't know that, thanks

[@lochofmceo]

@@justicebeske5704 Yeah because last week I started seeing reviews and I rushed home to watch it to find out it wasn’t coming out for five more days

[@mistreated]

Dude, you are TOO funny.! Always a pleasure to click on Think Story videos.

[@watchesandcaps2566]

I also was very impressed by that unnamed guy taking down those special forces dudes by himself. 5 seconds before he was reclined on a chair wolfing down snacks.

[@Luis-ky7wx]

fr I was like my god he's on a kill streak. Thought he was going to be killed in like 2 seconds

[@TheNobody8984]

I loved Vol. 1 and Vecna/One origin and the twists was fkin awesome. He’s Thanos in the Stranger Things Universe. Plus I would love to see more of the Vecna in ST5 and if we get a spin-off of the Upside Down. But I can’t wait for Vol. 2.

[@lfgnexus4892]

I am not a fan of how they are bringing Vecna in, but the hand or eye is a great way to keep him coming for Season 5.

[@drippypiss4810]

Why did Mike, Jonathon and Will just disappear towards the end

[@Rachhlaur]

I think their story was kind irrelevant for the last episode of volume 1

[@ME-hs7ll]

Compared to the two other storylines and where they got during the last episode/s, their storyline had no reason to be shown as they are just traveling toward the location of Eleven, and it would just cut from the crucial development of the other two.

[@ajaiy]

I’ll think they’ll play a crucial part in vol 2. showing up in just enough time to help out El and then they’ll all meet back together.

[@Michelala]

@@Rachhlaur agreed

[@theawesomebat1244]

@@ajaiy In the trailer, you can even see that the Military has found the secret base towards Project Nina.

[@NattieAngel]

Questions for part 2: - what did Will paint? - is Will gay? - how did Henry get powers? - why did time stop the day Will went missing?

[@josiecooper895]

Lmao probably will is gay, but whatever his sexuality I hope he gets screen time

[@vixatoxic5674]

Also why is the upside down having earthquakes?

[@jon_ovo3653]

@Rich Perez cause they keep hinting at it, it’s like like anyone cares if he’s gay outta no where bro

[@jon_ovo3653]

@@vixatoxic5674 good question also why aren’t they being met with any resistance in the upside down

[@Rachhlaur]

Will 100% has a crush on Mike

[@shelleydwyer-murphy2281]

Just reminding you, your videos are fantastic, so well informed and intelligent. And funny! (The Animaniacs drinking song was hilarious!) 😋😎👍

[@larasaikali2483]

Eddie and Suzy are my favorite new editions. I relate to Eleven the most because from when I was younger until now I never felt like I belonged and that I always felt like I was different.

[@alexh1642]

I don't think Hopper is going to die but I DO think Eddie will :(

[@lleahholmes]

AGREE

[@T-Dawg75]

No, I would put my money on Steve.

[@fabricioguanipa7530]

I once read that this show was thinkpiece by the duffer brothers about depression and this season had several clues that lead me to believe this is true, specially in Dear Billy. Kind of like Wandavision but with an ensemble of main character each one going through their own process

[@FeedzTheLegend]

This was an amazing season, probs the best one yet, and that's saying something considering i think all the other 3 seasons are also very good

[@blizz2795]

Jamie's acting was superb! The way he transformed from Henry to 001 to Vecna so seamlessly was mind blowing!

[@angiegonzalez52311]

Just realized that Victor mentioned finding dead animals around the home before his family was killed. Love those connections throughout the show.

[@sarahmcarthur3660]

Venca is the Thanos of stranger things

[@Transformers217]

Episode 7 was a masterpiece and makes me want to rewatch the whole series again! Lol

[@RedLaneArts]

Best episode with one of the best written Villain in ST

[@weisenbergphoto]

Patrick was physically abused by his father. When Vecna analyzes him, you can hear the yells of an adult male (Patrick’s dad). Also Lucas mentioned Patrick had a black eye when he came into practice one time.

[@Bullsac]

That shot count opener! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 so glad you came up on recommendations goood breakdown!

[@T.W.K.1993]

did you totaly miss that Steve was right next to Nancy. vecna didnt teleport her, he Just take over her mind.....

[@YenellyT]

when 11 was getting bullied on the rink I was waiting for her to go full carrie on them lol but she went with the skate. I hope on the second half of this season 11 learns to stand up for herself more, instead of holding it in. They deserved worse tho

[@camburizinho]

I think Vecna's curse is not just an allegory of depression or trauma, but something more specific - teen suicide. His victims feel inadequacy, guilt, grief. They die hollow, eyes sucked inside. Max survives because her friends, particularly Lucas, reach out to her and "tether" her back to life - other victims isolated themselves. Vecna at some point will aim at Will, cause he has issues accepting his sexuality. This also fits with Eleven's arc, that realizes that her power grows when she draws from a memory of love (Xmen First Class Magneto, anyone?). Love is the answer to defeat Vecna/suicide.

[@mo6live]

Mind Flayer wasn’t a foot solider he was the main boss and they even said that he was this season they said the demigorgan was a foot solider and vecna is his top 5 star soldier

[@fansim6110]

mindflayer weak variant(physical form) really wipe out our side easily, we still didnt see it full power, it only control it demodog. Yea maybe ss5 we will facing mindflayer shadow form,-,

[@JamoSimcity47]

Hearing you sing, was an absolute treat lmao.

[@dominickgonzalez440]

bro the beginning of the video got a genuine chuckle out of me, i also loved your humor throughout the video 😂. you just earned a new subscriber and viewer

[@chancethompson9507]

I think that Erika will have a major part in killing vecna and dusty will die. In the first episode dusty failed to kill vecna and his character died but erika rolled a twenty and killed him.

[@trashcanhd1790]

Both Will and Jonathan getting it rough this season when it comes to love🤣

[@azsoho6532]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the Mind Flayer for some reason. Let me explain the hierarchy of Upside Down Creatures for anyone who might not understand. 1. Mind Flayer (Is the main evil attempting to infiltrate reality from the upside down) - The Mind Flayer was NOT defeated in Season 3. - The Mind Flayer attempted to use Billy to build itself a body in our reality so it could infiltrate Hawkins and kill Eleven. It succeeded in building a body, but it did not succeed in becoming as strong, big and powerful as it is in the upside down. - Killing the smaller Mind Flayer Creature in the Mall did NOT kill the actual Mind Flayer in the upside down. The Huge Mind Flayer is still alive in the upside down and still the mastermind behind all of this. 2. Vecna (The Mind Flayer's General, He plugs into the Mind Flayer's Vines or the Mind Flayer plugs into him when he begins attacking victims from the upside down, Vecna is being used to open many portals in a quick fashion for whatever the Mind Flayer is planning, possibly a large invasion scenario) 3. Demogorgons (Deadly Creatures, Act as Foot Soldiers essentially) 4. Demo Dogs & Demo Bats (Demodogs are young Demogorgons that haven't fully matured, the bats and dogs are the weakest creatures we've seen from the upside down.)

[@xox2354]

Thank you!! This makes everything make so much more sense now I think I might need to rewatch all the seasons again 😅

[@res6148]

I think the part where hopper said that maybe he could save El even if it's the last thing he does was accurate given the fact that they didn't think they could survive the prison.