Windows 11's NEW CPU Requirements (Why You Shouldn't Care)

[@s1ne20]

Ah yes, 0:03 "Mac'osoft", the fusion between Mac and Microsoft

[@WindowsXPfan-FNFMix]

Don't we all love Mac'osost?

[@pyp2205]

It called Windowtosh or Macdows right? 🤔

[@ZH_ZARIFO_O]

Windows phone 8.1 Iwindows phone 8.1

[@vz1778]

why the "angry mob" aint looking tor wards the mac'osoft building?

[@harleylazy]

@@vz1778 cuz AI

[@Sentieantbeing]

Well there goes my pentium 4 build

[@cip0llo]

rip

[@Timely7]

Yeah just use linux for it, but I feel like you're joking here. But if you're not use linux, I have a x10 more powerful cpu and im still using linux. I like an OS that is optimized.

[@volvo09]

Haha!

[@ABaumstumpf]

@@Timely7 "I like an OS that is optimized." So windows - which is just as optimised, but also doing a lot more things already by default.

[@alphagiga4878]

Me still struggling to build my new PC still stuck with an fx6300

[@mrbrown6421]

In 1989 I worked on a Boeing 737-300 Communications Bus in Michigan. I was hired to increase traffic flow rate. As the project was wrapping up, we received a notice from the bus controller manufacturer that if more than 22 bits of a 32 bit data word were 1, the controller would glitch and lose data. I NEEDED THE POPCNT instruction. But it was not in the Z8002 processor at the time. -- 2.23.2024 Excellent Info.

[@sas408]

Oh man, sorry to hear. Did you survive?

[@mrbrown6421]

@@sas408Of course I survived. Who do think is writing this ? I wrote this clever routine in Z8002 assembly to quickly determine the bit population. (Population Count) Thanks for asking. Few Do.

[@tamtliskedy]

its also feels weird that todays computers have more powerful cpu's than a aviation computers one. (idk if they are still using the old microprocessors)

[@Patrik6920]

@@tamtliskedy u would probably be chocked in how many systems that is critical that rely on old hw and cpus... this w11 thing is just freaking nuts...

[@ElShogoso]

@skedyThere are still aircraft from the 1980's being used commercially so yeah, they're still using them. Those may be old but they're very reliable.

[@cynicalthoughts]

No one with a 2006 procesor would try to install windows 11 🤔 they would probably chill with 7 or 10

[@FloatSamplesGT710]

Yes 10 is way lighter and better than 11, Its basically 7 with some UI disabled

[@milaszxxx]

I tried it with e8400, it wasn't as fast as i thought

[@fcfcth]

7? Imagine using an OS that is unpatched since 4 years

[@rudeskalamander]

Just use Linux at that point

[@Originalimoc]

​@@fcfcthwhat do you expect on a 2006 PC, compile your own Linux for it?

[@BinaryBridgeHQ]

I understand the rationale behind Windows dropping support for various processors as they aim to streamline and remove legacy code from the operating system. The old legacy code interfacing with newer versions necessitates this decision. However, my concern lies in the lack of transparency. It would be more honest to clearly communicate the reasons instead of using explanations like security measures.

[@Chris-hw4mq]

People who use CPUs from 2010 either use windows 7 or 10 because they dont have secure boot bios so no loss here

[@codetoil]

Microsoft doesn't need to explain why they are breaking compatibility with older hardware *they already do not support*.

[@BinaryBridgeHQ]

@@Chris-hw4mq 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Biaanca5036]

more like 2006 . .

[@JamesSmith-ix5jd]

What are you talking about, they can't remove old code, it will make Windows incompatible with any WIN32 applications. They can only build on top of old things.

[@NoxNyctores427]

Pentium 4 bros, we had it good

[@user-ko9qy5st9i]

so bad we can't run Windows 11 on our Pentium 4's anymore, just sad

[@JamesSmith-ix5jd]

P4 was not usable since like 2010, I remember how painfully slow the browsing was on it, while core 2 duo and especially quad core were 5-10 times faster in real usage.

[@AltonV]

The first computer that I bought had a Pentium 4 3GHz with hyperthreading

[@0w3nn]

@@JamesSmith-ix5jdyep, totally right. Pentium 4s are unusable in 2024. Core 2 duos actually still are.

[@mycelia_ow]

My old core 2 quad makes the P4 seem ancient and will still be supported. You can buy pentium 4's for less than a dollar, suffice to say nobody should be using them. Those things are paperweights.

[@CHETAN_I_007]

As you said for Cryptography, it makes the task very very fast as it is directly running on hard ware. While the other option might be some kind of emulation or program which might make such a task slower. Hamming code is used to check if data is tampered either intentionally or unintentionally, and having dedicated hardware for such a task is actually good as far as my knowledge goes. Edit:- Now that I think of, bit locker might rely heavily on it, also all network packets verification might be done with it but not sure

[@Originalimoc]

Bitlocker uses AES-XTS which is heavily accelerated on ASIC on recent CPU achieving 10GB+ per sec speed. Almost 10x faster than if done on general purpose CPU.

[@TD-er]

It might also be possible that alternatives for such missing instructions require more code which can create some attack vector to alter registers (or read them) inbetween. An atomic instruction can't be paused inbetween instructions, where lots of instructions can. So maybe there is a theoretical potential attack vector they want to eliminate here?

[@robertoXCX]

I can rest easy knowing that my retired 1st gen i7 960 just barely makes the cut for a version of Windows it will never see. That particular computer was made for 7 and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[@mycelia_ow]

Probably shouldn't be using win11 anyway, maybe not even win10, maybe linux. That CPU isn't a problem, it's the outdated and vulnerable platform hardware its running on. Expect Win12 to be even stricter, rightfully so.

[@AT-sl9kf]

how is the platform hardware insecure? as far as ik spectre/meltdown is the only hardware level vulnerability and thats been patched

[@kneekoo]

@@AT-sl9kf Google "linux kernel Hardware vulnerabilities". They're not related to Linux, they're simply listed on the documentation website of the Linux kernel. It's a pretty long list, unfortunately.

[@mikem9536]

@@fishy2939Now? I gave up on Windows 7 5 years ago.

[@thommysides4616]

Amen brother!

[@fragalot]

Thing is PopCnt is so old that newer CPUs since SSE4.2 was introduced into x64 processors STILL won't have TMP support, nor SecureBoot. You'd have to be sporting an old 32bit CPU like an Athlon XP or a Pentium 4 which a 64bit version of Windows wouldn't run on anyway, and Windows 11 doesn't exist as a 32bit OS.

[@kunka592]

You don't really need those features to install or use Win11. Literally look up any guide on youtube to bypass the Win11 TPM, SecureBoot, and even RAM requirements. This is gonna create a bunch of e-waste of Core2Quads and Core2Duos that could at least somewhat run Win11 for basic tasks, but it's more money for microsoft so they don't care.

[@fcfcth]

Certain Pentium 4s can run Windows 11

[@fragalot]

@@fcfcth yeah but can you install more than 4GB of RAM on that? windows 10 would balk at that.

[@wabbit234]

@@fragalot4GB is fine for Windows 10 and 11.

[@fcfcth]

@@fragalot Windows 10 can run even on 512MB of RAM

[@ZipplyZane]

Apparently there are other programs that had these requirements that have been patches with a software version of this instruction. Popcount is something that you can implement in code. In fact, some code optimizers will detect if you try to write your own code to implement Popcount and replace it with the POPCNT CPU instruction.

[@twocows360]

There are a lot of people in the third world (or in very rural places with low access to technology in the first world) running very old devices because that's what they have access to or can afford. I worry that they're *not* going to change to Linux and will just continue running whatever Windows they can past the expiration date. I don't really fault Microsoft for implementing changes that affect stuff older than Nehalem, I mean that's ancient, but it's still unfortunate any time this comes up. It's good that Linux is there as an option, but I really wish Microsoft would just make some kind of stripped down version of Windows for older devices so that they can at least get minimal web functionality and updates. I guess it's not really in their business strategy, though.

[@ZGURemixer]

This.

[@Originalimoc]

TBH Very old device can't be secured anyway... Just use whatever OS available... Better understand the risk

[@JasbirSingh-zj1fg]

Don't underestimate the third worlders. They *will* switch to Linux if Windows gets too difficult to use.

[@no_name4796]

stripped down = less ads, less tracking, and less bs microsoft puts in their OS. you know why that won't happen. So yeah, if you want a safe and lightweight OS, linux is the only solution. Which for me works, since i now use only linux, but yeah i understand that unless linux becomes easy to find already preinstalled, most people will not even know about it.

[@Timely7]

Yeah or just make the entire OS x10 more optimized. there like game devs, because gpu's are getting so powerful and with FSR and DLS that devs don't optimze there game since higher hardware can handle it. Microsoft has been doing the same as CPU's have gotten better they thought there's no need to optimze and debloat the system as hardware is getting better and can handle it. Personally I hate this, it's why I use linux. I have a ryzen 7 7800X3d and it could run windows even after this update but I like how linux is able to utilze every bit of my system performance. If Microsoft optimizes there OS I might try it out, not use it as a daily driver but I'll give it a go around to see how it is, but ill be dead before that point.

[@Psychx_]

What's interesting is that the Hackintosh community was confronted with the same problem ages ago. They wrote an SSE4.2 emulator and had the kernel trap said instructions to get newer MacOS versions working on SSE4.1 Macs.

[@hquest]

Just to clarify, as Thio talks about SSE 4 and begin to talk about them at 1:57, the first Intel CPUs that supported SSE 4 (by means of SSE 4.1) were the Penryn based, known by their market name Intel Core 2. The SSE 4.2 which implements the PopCnt feature required by the Windows 11 24H2 update is indeed the Nehalem, as he states in the video.

[@volvo09]

So if I have that right the Core duo and Core 2 series of processors (probably including the centrino mobile line) are the first "new" unsupported processors before going back in the lineup to the Pentium 4... So all of the iX CPU's and onward have it. Not like Win11 on a first gen I series processor would run good....

[@hquest]

@@volvo09 Yup. Any Core iX CPU has the necessary SSE4.2 instruction set. And you are spot on, if those would run good is a very different question.

[@marvinmallette6795]

I wouldn't count on it. Wikipedia reports that "SSSE3" was mislabeled as "SSE4" early on in the Core 2 era. With Intel not adopting POPCNT until the second gen iX CPUs with SSE4.2. So by all indications, no Core 2 CPUs will work. It looks like there may be early Xeon CPUs with POPCNT. So I am not counting on my Core 2 Duo E7500 to boot the next time it updates.

[@rpst39]

Yeah I remember patching macOS Mojave to run on my Core 2 Duo E7400 hackintosh because my CPU only had SSE4 but Mojave required 4.2

[@thej3799]

So will there be a workaround?

[@hentosama]

i5 4960k running latest w11 here, still chugging along!

[@Beni_777]

I have an i7-7700k, do you think it's still viable?

[@MikeK-vo3ly]

I have a i5 3570k😂

[@MrSamadolfo]

yes 🙂 works fine

[@綠豆]

@@Beni_777I'm running it, it's working fine!

[@benhaze1010]

I still can't believe that my i7-4770 is not compatible with Windows 11. It was a high end CPU at that time...

[@pureplay7071]

That has to be about 10 years old now, that is a long time.

[@benhaze1010]

@@pureplay7071It is but there are other versions of the same CPU (same age) that are compatible. Even i5 and i7. Goes to show how complex CPUs architecture are.

[@pureplay7071]

​@@benhaze1010 How about the poor I7 7700k which was just 4 years old at the time, I mean that was some sort of joke.

[@treelineresearch3387]

​@@pureplay7071 Corpos gotta have you continuously consuming, even if your 10 year old hardware is perfectly adequate. Selling a new PC for the most part sells a new copy of Windows.

[@geehammer1511]

Funny thing is my CPU released April 2021, October 2021 Windows 11 arrives, my CPU not good enough.

[@Munenushi]

i would not have been able to pronounce the cpu feature "POPCNT", as often as you have, without saying the 'bad' word that the abbreviation is making me think in my head. you are a stronger man than i am. kudos, and kudos for informative vid!

[@ZeFoxii]

The problem I have is it’s a slow rolling snowball, people don’t realize it yet but windows has been doing more and more to limit what people can and can’t do. The amount they changed without warning “should” be concerning but for some reason it’s just not. Microsoft are even turning windows into even worse spyware and putting ad placements in the start menu. What’s worse is a lot of people still feel forced to use windows either because they don’t know how to use Linux or because there is no better alternative yet.

[@linkfreeman1998]

If only Linux doesnt make a gazillion distros just because they can... And instead unite.

[@ZeFoxii]

That would be awesome, I only see that happening once valve makes an official desktop OS @@linkfreeman1998

[@bite-sizedshorts9635]

@@linkfreeman1998 There is no "they" with Linux. It's multiple teams doing what Linux was designed to allow. I hope we never have just one Linux that some corporation can take over.

[@ZeFoxii]

@@bite-sizedshorts9635 me two but we need to as a community decide what the de facto standard should be the “go to” Linux for beginners, something that just works and plays games well without complexity, and it does not matter what anyone says. Point blank that doesn’t yet exist, not Nobara not regataOS and not pikaOS they are steps in the right direction but they have their own quirks and issues that unless you have a computer background like I do can be difficult for the average Joe.

[@ZeFoxii]

@@bite-sizedshorts9635 my list of OOTB features that would fit this bill, Double click windows exe’s and have them work out the rip, it’s getting there and nobara does this for a lot of apps but not all work. Or run well… Gaming ready solid performance, aka no weird glitches from the os. Easy to theme and have a great user friendly interface not bloated similar to cinnamon, with easy to understand UI like kde, and have no errors when installing well known themes, Flatpack as the main if not close to only way to install apps, and a solid App Store experience with nice ui’s for everything, A super easy way to install Linux that is user UI friendly, and have the option to install without going into a live environment. Most if not most important auto updates enabled with a nice toggle to disable, I hate updates so you may ask why would I suggest this. Most people forget to update their phone yet alone their computer, so having it enabled automatically is better for the end user, Immutable file system, this way average people can’t kill or uninstall their os like Linus, as funny as that was. And an easy way to install .deb/.rpm without it being fedora(troublesome company) or Debian(dreadfully slow updates) And finally not have it look or run like a pile of garbage, and most if not all distro’s they look fugly and expect the end user to fix it.

[@AntoniNowak69]

i love that he put the windows 10 logo instead of the windows 11 logo in the thumbnail

[@Rob2]

Windows 11 is just a marketing name for Windows 10.2 Internally the version is 10.2xxxx

[@45545videos]

Proper subtitles, wahoo! Please never stop providing those :D

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

what does windows 11 *do* that warrants better hardware, anyway? I still do the same things I did several versions ago so I'm not sure what the value add is for me.

[@DerivativeOfLog7]

People when Windows 11 won't support 16yo CPUs anymore for an actual good reason [edit: *unlike the artificial limitations*] for once expecting software to be forever tied to legacy hardware: 😠😠😠

[@volvo09]

Yeah, just try to put win7 on a Pentium III... Or XP on a 486, same thing. There is no reason for it. These are old computers, you can ask around and often find someone willing to give you a free 10y old or newer computer these days if you want to hack win11 on something.

[@kunka592]

It would make more sense if Win11 launched with these requirements (don't tell me their arbitrary CPU cutoff is a real requirement), but this is some random update after a few years that kills CPU support for hardware that was already functional with the OS. This doesn't affect me but they will just create e-waste of otherwise usable basic PCs. Core2Quads are still fast enough for basic tasks.

[@DerivativeOfLog7]

@@kunka592 it's an os that's in active development... I'll grant you that it probably would've been to make the decision alongside a new OS major release, but its not surprising and it has normally already happened before (Win8 requires SSE2, XP won't run on 486s, and so on) And no, I never said the arbitrary cutoff is justified, I even said "for an actual good reason for once", tho at least the artificial limits can be bypassed

[@marioalexanderski9598]

Maybe Microsoft didn't want to repeat the Vista shenanigans that happened in mid 2000s.

[@willshirk8697]

Sure except an dell precision from 2017 is not upgradable due to processor. Everything else is compliant. You cannot say a 18 core Xeon is an old slow processor. I have Dell precision 5810 with 64 gigs of RAM and an 18 core processor I certainly have not spent a lot on this machine, but if I had spent $10,000 on a workstation from 2017 I would be infuriated to know my money went down the drain via Draconian requirements of windows 11

[@roiltidor]

I used to watch your videos over 10 years ago when I was a kid. How time flies😊

[@_SJ]

Wow. Not a black V-neck. Congrats 🎉 Joe not wearing a black V-neck makes me feel like I'm in an alternate universe.

[@ThioJoe]

I put off doing the laundry for too many days and ran out 💀

[@_SJ]

​@@ThioJoe Looks good tbh 👍🏻

[@mdmackint]

how are you 13hr ago?

[@cynicalthoughts]

Lmao 😂

[@s1ne20]

​@@mdmackint He's a channel member. They get videos early by a day

[@Oweblow]

As a Windows 10 user who’s not upgrading ever: “Oh no… Anyways”

[@mycelia_ow]

"Ever" yeah right, where've heard that one before.....

[@adamtajhassam9188]

youll be forced when u are online in win10

[@Saji_0]

​@@adamtajhassam9188good thing I broke something within my win10 install, so it won't update automatically

[@basshead.]

We're all going to use Win12 in 2026 (except me because I still use a BSEL modded E2160)

[@rulercostax]

@@adamtajhassam9188 just use LTSC 2021 IoT Enterprise edition

[@Woodzta]

I know my fellow Brits are pronouncing "PopCnt" a slightly less family friendly way.

[@tonyvn5817]

Hi ThioJoe. I'm still running windows 10. And with no problems. I concider you a friend even tho we naver met. Take care Thio.

[@Ivan-pr7ku]

Steam Hardware Survey indicates CPUs with SSE4.2 install base are covering 99.45% of the market, so it was bound critical software like Windows to move the compatibility bar up, ditching fallback routines for older hardware -- streamlining the code base sort of. Some games are already asking for AVX support as minimum.

[@harpskid]

Gaming is not the only use for computers.

[@bite-sizedshorts9635]

That survey was among gamers, not the general public. People in eastern Europe are still using DOS on 80s and 90s PCs. There are millions of PCs in the US that won't meet the requirements. I know mine won't, as I built it myself about 12 years ago. It does everything I need, so why change?

[@harpskid]

@@bite-sizedshorts9635How much would a sandy bridge i5 cost in eastern Europe? A days wages? A weeks? Just trying to get a frame of reference.

[@FirstLast-qy7hf]

3 week wage for a decent version of the i5 here in romania

[@fragalot]

CPU instructions are many many levels above fundamental logic gates. Since logic gates exist outside (and before) the first microprocessors were created. Instruction Sets are basically hard-coded software that performs a specific task inside the CPU, often to automate a common repeated function so that it doesn't need to be performed in software which would be much slower. When you write software you can call on the specific CPU op code do an operation, rather than verbosely code the logic in software to do the same task. This is why not all software is cross compatible with all CPUs, since not all of them have the same instructions sets or op-codes, even among modern CPUs they aren't often compatible with out (software) abstraction layers, or compiling your code specific for each CPU (and often OS.) like the differences between ARM and x86/x64 CPUs.

[@spydermonkey9381]

Windows 7 and XP was the best windows versions ever to exist.

[@SoldierSide88]

Oh no. My Core2Duo E8600 won't get any new windows 11 versions I guess. Well It's finally time to move on then I guess.

[@marvinmallette6795]

Yeah, i mean it had a good run. Much more energy efficient options for around $100 these days. I'd probably still be using mine if I didn't damage a DDR2 RAM channel after taking my GPU out to use a can of air on it. 4GB of non-Dual Channel DDR2 hurts a smidge in 2024.

[@outtheredude]

Oh well. Guess a dual boot XP/Linux system for gaming and everyday use may resurrect this old dog.

[@marvinmallette6795]

@@outtheredude I was an NVIDIA guy back in the day, and my Core 2 has a Geforce GT 240. Unfortunately, it is better supported by Windows 11 than Linux. I couldn't find a decent driver the last time I installed Linux on it. I figure Open Source AMD drivers will have a better chance of long term support.

[@Anonymous______________]

​@@marvinmallette6795Lmfao, I had the opposite experience baring any weird SCSI/RAID controllers Linux will literally run on anything.

[@marvinmallette6795]

@@Anonymous______________ You couldn't find a GPU driver for AMD for the 5.x Linux kernel? However, you could find an official NVIDIA driver for an AGP graphics card that works with the 5.x kernel? Weird.

[@rich1051414]

The hamming code can also be used to detect if memory is tampered with without actually granting access to the memory. This is a big deal for security. If rogue software is running at layer zero under the kernel, it's a way to detect it's presence without actually accessing memory that it doesn't have access to. One thing this would mean is, better anti-cheat.

[@FGwithAyush]

Back to watching Theo after 2 years 🖤

[@thisislilraskal]

You just get out bro?

[@FGwithAyush]

@@thisislilraskal ???

[@deepabala823]

like where were you these 2 years without watching him? How could you!

[@thisislilraskal]

@@FGwithAyush ...of prison is what I meant, my bad.

[@FGwithAyush]

@@deepabala823 It's a long story I even left using PCs

[@MonochromeWench]

This isn't the first time Microsoft has done this, Windows 8.1 required cmpexchg16b that was not supported by 1st gen x86_64 cpus blocking upgrade paths for some users. Typically Microsoft doesn't add cpu feature testing in the kernel. If they want to use a cpu instruction in the Kernel and you don't have it, a bsod for you if you somehow forced install.

[@bite-sizedshorts9635]

And there were millions of us who never once used Windows 8. I won't be using 11 either. I skipped from 7 to 10 a while back and changed most of the user interface to what I like.

[@Talha101khan_]

Windows 10 users here ⬇

[@Joshualibbyy]

I use server 2022 lol

[@Karman7]

I use windows 11 because my Windows 10 laptop broke

[@lollovec]

I use 10 cause 11 sucks

[@geehammer1511]

Yep Windows 10 here because my CPU released in 2021 isn't good enough to run Windows 11.

[@dianne8929]

Windows 10 👍👍

[@Its-Just-Zip]

If I remember correctly, there are some low power or embedded CPUs that lack these instruction sets that are pretty modern, but I'm also still not really concerned about this because you should be running a more low power friendly operating system like Linux on those chips anyway. This might be a problem for some people trying to make use of some of the interesting Alibaba nucs machines but for most people this will be fine

[@valenrn8657]

ARM64 has a POPCNT like instruction i.e. CNT. This is from RPi 4B's ARM Cortex A72.

[@skytrigger]

Been following you for a while, while I rarely understand most of the technical things all around the computer sciences, it's always a comfortable listen when watching your video, if not informative. Happy to see more of you and your tipps and tricks.

[@Double-Negative]

2:19. They knew you might not be sure how to pronounce it... which is why the second word in the article is a guide on how to pronounce it. nuh-HAY-lum

[@jeremykoenig7996]

I run a dell percision 7710 microsoft says my cpu is not compatible, i installed windows 11 pro anyway and it runs smooth!

[@sayantanisaha8989]

What you said in the original windows 11 update system requirements video was right. They needed or wanted some more processor space

[@sonytv6107]

From my tv account: When I first heard the news: Oh no ! , I have 8th gen my PC is definitely not getting 24h2. Upon later inspection: My pc is getting it, only old CPUs ain't getting it

[@Max_Mustermann]

Honestly, the oldest CPU still suitable for everyday use is probably a 1st or 2nd generation Core i5. Trying to browse the web on a Core 2 Duo laptop is an exercise in frustration.

[@volvo09]

Yeah, they are very very old. 2nd Gen i5 (with an SSD) is my "lowest spec" PC I can use on the modern Internet without getting too irritated waiting for pages to load. one of my favorite laptops has a 2nd Gen i5).

[@0w3nn]

I’d say core 2 duos are fine if you have a dedicated gpu. They can play 1080p60 video.

[@0w3nn]

@@volvo09well you haven’t used an i7-740QM then.

[@Max_Mustermann]

@@0w3nn It probably depends on the GPU. My old Vaio with a Core 2 Duo P8400 and a GeForce 9300M GS struggles quite a lot with KZbin. Maybe desktops from that era fare a bit better.

[@0w3nn]

@@Max_Mustermann that’s weird, especially since you’ve got dedicated graphics and a P series core 2 duo. my 2007 dell latitude d630 with core 2 duo t9300 could do 1080p30 vp9 even with integrated graphics. And it’s CPU isn’t even maxed out, usually at 70-90%. It can’t do 1080p60 though, which is a shame.

[@user-sf7fm1bi1p]

I'm still daily-driving a Core 2 Quad Q9650, so I do care about this. To be fair I wasn't planning on upgrading to 11 until Windows 10 support stopped, but still, this is disappointing... I guess I'll have to finally make the switch to Linux.

[@honkhonkler7732]

I run a Q6600 and a modern Radeon Pro card with 8GB RAM and and SSD. It has Fedora 39 with the full fat gnome desktop and it runs great. About as well as an average modern laptop runs Windows 11.

[@beardyface8492]

Same processor, same issue, except some of the legacy software I use daily won't function correctly under WINE, so I'll still be using unsupported Windows after the switch to Linux, if only inside a VM, might go back to Win98 or NT4 for it to reduce the VM's footprint.

[@DMS_6482]

Check out Netrunner 23 (Vaporwave). :) I've been using Netruuner OS (Debian based) for a few years now and recommend. :)

[@Thomasgabrielmod]

I'm switching to Windows 10 Enterprise IoT LTSC which is supported until 2032. Maybe consider that....?

[@bodasactra]

TPM suddenly started blocking boot just after a Win 11 update and BIOS update. In the end both main and backup BIOS were corrupted and its stuck at UEFI light loop, dead. I am building a branch new system just as they intended. Scam .

[@stevenlee3661]

My core 2 duo laptop works great with windows 11 pro and not bad with a hard drive in it that gets speeds of 140mb/s and 6gb of ram. Do I now just not get updates?

[@sofiaknyazeva]

Just for the reference, POPCNT instruction isn't mandatory, well, for Windows, it is, but the entire instruction can be implemented in the software level. Just check if the bit ANDs with 1, if it does, then increase the index. The problem is that this will require a few more instructions where POPCNT do this in a single instruction.

[@Rob2]

I guess the test if POPCNT works is just a quick way to determine if your processor supports a number of instructions that are now generated by the compiler used to compile Windows 11. A hypothetical processor that only supports POPCNT but not other SSE4.2 instructions probably would still fail to work.

[@sofiaknyazeva]

​@@Rob2 No, POPCNT doesn't have any special feature that we can say a big deal or viable enough. POPCNT is a single instruction, that was added in SSE4.x instruction set. I'm sure that Microsoft main focus isn't the POPCNT here, but to make sure user has at least a CPU that support SSE4.x instruction set. It helps Windows to implement optimizations, for this, and CPUs later released. Any processor that's was made earlier than 2008-2009, is basically unsupported by Windows 11 (or will be after this update began to roll out).

[@Rob2]

@@sofiaknyazeva In itself it is strange that they refer to a single instruction rather than a capability. Intel/AMD CPUs have a register that has a number of flags indicating if a certain feature is supported, and SSE4.x is among them. So they can directly refer to that capability. Of course I understand (and said above) that they want to use new instructions that older CPUs do not have. It is not, as some people believe, "an easy way to make you buy a new computer", it is a way to distribute optimized software in binary form without the hassle of having to use alternative libraries that are put in place after a CPU type detection.

[@Knirin]

@@Rob2 I don’t remember off the top of my head about SSE4.?, but each AVX family has a few subversions with different sets of instructions. POPCNT may be the safest to test or generally useful of the entire SSE4.? family.

[@Rob2]

@@Knirin As I already wrote, there is NO need to "test" if an instruction is available. Ever since the days of the 486 (maybe even 386) there is a register with flags that tells you what the capabilities of the processor are. In Linux you can easily query those flags, don't know how it is in Windows but likely the same. My processor says: *fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc art arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc cpuid aperfmperf tsc_known_freq pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 sdbg fma cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm abm 3dnowprefetch cpuid_fault epb ssbd ibrs ibpb stibp ibrs_enhanced tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid ept_ad fsgsbase tsc_adjust bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 erms invpcid rdseed adx smap clflushopt clwb intel_pt sha_ni xsaveopt xsavec xgetbv1 xsaves avx_vnni dtherm ida arat pln pts hwp hwp_notify hwp_act_window hwp_epp hwp_pkg_req hfi umip pku ospke waitpkg gfni vaes vpclmulqdq tme rdpid movdiri movdir64b fsrm md_clear serialize pconfig arch_lbr ibt flush_l1d arch_capabilities* As you can see, the sse4.x capabilities are also in that. But there are many more.

[@Sir_Uncle_Ned]

I just got tired of Windows constantly trying to shove subscriptions and LLM GPT as deep as possible into every orifice, and since I use my pc mainly for gaming; I went with Pop! OS which is based on Ubuntu but with nVidia or AMD driver magic (You have to choose the right version when downloading) to make sure you can use that powerful graphics card right out of the box. Thanks to Valve’s Proton I can run every game in my steam library without major issue, and with Litrus I can access and run my other assorted game libraries. As an added bonus; the boot and shutdown times are WAY faster than Windows could hope to accomplish

[@Solarpunk_SciFi]

For me, it just says 'hardware insufficient' or something like that every time I try to update, my laptop is only a bit over a decade old! It doesn't say whether it's the cpu or not.

[@Solarpunk_SciFi]

@@lennytlm well, my cheap laptop from like 2020 doesn't have enough storage space to fit windows 11 and a browser at the same time! And my actually worth something laptop is too old. :(

[@Joker-no1fz]

even on disability i have a 3070 ti laptop. i hope you are a kid.

[@bite-sizedshorts9635]

@@lennytlm I guess it's a certainty that I'll never get another version of Windows. I have 10 on a computer I built from scratch about 12 years ago. It does everything I want, so I don't see any need to change it.

[@STR82DVD]

Good find lad. Brilliant. Thanks for the heads up man.

[@Legitti]

I'm good with Intel Core i9-13900HX??

[@user-c29dxkl4]

No

[@ckingpro]

In addition, some distros (not all) are starting to require x86-64-v2 as the baseline (Nehalem/Bulldozer/Silvermont/Jaguar or later) and if your CPU is too old to support it, you will get a massive boost in performance when you upgrade anyways. Additionally, I have used CPUID check before using AVX2. (Also, even if you are going to be using 128-bit SIMD, do a check for AVX as VEX encoded versions of SSE instructions as introduced with AVX are more efficient) However, Windows 11 24H2 definitively require POPCNT as you can confirm using Qemu with or without POPCNT

[@volvo09]

Yeah, these processors are so old that simply saying "just install Linux" won't always fly, you'll have to go with an older distro, just like sticking to older windows.

[@ckingpro]

@@volvo09 yeah. There will always be distros supporting old PCs considering Debian still supports 32-bit x86 processors

[@harpskid]

@@volvo09The newest kernel still supports i486 (even though there were talks of removing it a couple years ago) and plenty of distros support i686.

[@MrVidification]

I did a windows reset and now 11 thinks I don't have the required hardware. It still works but defender won't scan manually with some limited access warnings. Having said that, the usb to reset was done with rufus which can remove tpm and other requirements, so that may have still messed up the reset. Everything is intact though, no errors, and runs just as it would with 10. I see no major differences since I've always used openshell for the start menu

[@SteelSkin667]

FWIW, there has been a lot of discussion recently about mainline Linux distros Ubuntu and Fedora doing the same thing Microsoft has been doing with Windows 11, ie requiring higher CPU ISA baselines in upcoming releases than they do these days. I find it surprising that Microsoft are taking so little advantage of the very high CPU requirements of Windows to be honest, and that they set them that high right off the bat. When the minimum CPU spec is so modern, starting off by requiring a single SSE4.2 instruction a whole two years after launch is fairly tame. No wonder that people still feel like the cutoff was arbitrary and made to help PC sales.

[@harpskid]

The distros can do whatever they want, as long as the linux kernel keeps up the support (and its been doing a pretty good job!) I'm pretty sure a Pentium 3 can run the modern kernel.

[@SteelSkin667]

@@harpskid Oh, you can even boot modern Gentoo on a Pentium Pro. I believe the baseline for the kernel is still i486, although the very few distros that still support 32-bit tend to compile for i686.

[@SteelSkin667]

@@harpskid Oh, you can even run modern Gentoo on a Pentium Pro, although finding a suitable desktop environment could prove a bit of a challenge. The kernel still targets i486 as a baseline, and the few distros that still support 32-bit x86 tend to compile for i686. Personally I am in favor of the gradual raising of CPU requirements on the more mainstream, as long as there are still options out there for older hardware, which will unfortunately not be an option for many Windows users come 2025.

[@harpskid]

@@SteelSkin667 I'm happy they still support i486, but I can't fathom many people are running hardware older than p68 that *also* is getting regular updates. It seems like a very arbitrary target (although I do find videos of ancient hardware running linux very enjoyable). Like, p68 came out 23 years ago. Even in extremely poor countries I would expect people to have access to that kind of hardware. Maybe that's optimistic though. Regardless, microsoft has gone off the deep end with insane system requirements. I can't imagine most people are happy with it.

[@honkhonkler7732]

I decided to move my Core 2 Quad box to Linux from Windows 10. I thought about bypassing the Windows 11 requirements check and installing anyway but given this, I'm glad I didn't. Runs Fedora 39 perfectly with a Radeon Pro WX2100.

[@JeanRosa-qc3mb]

i was NOT expecting to see Minecraft redstone schemes in this video.

[@Mircoblaze]

the funny thing about windows 11 is that when it was launched in 2021 the min requirements include a processor 12 years old but cant include my i5 7400 a much newer processor

[@geehammer1511]

Or my AMD 5700g released in April 2021

[@marblox9300]

From my standpoint - I don't see any reason to go from Win10 to Win11. Just wish Win10 had the looks of XP which was easier to use.

[@jooroth18]

Dope, my laoptp still works. Im running a 3rd gen i7 HP Elitebook 8570W laptop that does support Windows 11 as it has a TPM chip that is compatible.

[@sourav7620]

Yes

[@bite-sizedshorts9635]

I won't change. I have a laptop that has the original XP running. It works fine.

[@debosmitdas9951]

If your pc is from 2008 , then upgrading to the latest windows version should be the least of your concerns!

[@j7ndominica051]

I have an "extremely old" Core 2 Duo, and I have no interest in bloated and slow Windows 11 with flat design. They have no reason to bake in neural networks in the system files even if they wanted to provide a module for that.

[@neilprimrose8720]

Thanks ThioJoe - you continue to be one of the best teachers on the web: your clarity, diligence and levelheaded approach is always a pleasure.

[@overnexus.]

“Why I shouldn’t care.” I don’t need windows 11.

[@Originalimoc]

To me, only gamers need Win 11.

[@ottergauze]

@@Originalimoc I'd argue not even gamers "need" Windows 11. I don't think Windows 11 is "bad" by any measure as far as gaming goes, but it doesn't bring anything particularly novel to that space unless you're super into HDR.

[@overnexus.]

@@Originalimoc Linux is also becoming easier to game on now

[@Anonymous______________]

​@@Originalimoclaughs in photon lol.

[@LUCKO2022]

​@Originalimoc Lol, no. A good chunk of games work just fine using proton. I have allot of "windows only" games running just fine on my Linux machine thanks to Proton. Proton keeps getting better ans better. So you won't need Windows for gaming. If only companies like Bungie would get on board with the anticheat and you would be fine.

[@eno88]

"Mac'osoft"? Now THAT is cursed.

[@thetower8553]

Indeed 🤣

[@WeatherMan2005]

Fr

[@i_Kruti]

I was waiting for it...!!😂🤣

[@JereAnimate]

Looks AI Generated

[@WeatherMan2005]

@@JereAnimate it was

[@chesshooligan1282]

Core 2 Duo here. I suppose I'm in the 0.1%.

[@djtnm]

I also core 2 duo, My games are old flight simulator 2002/2004 in cd , originals. I do not care about Steam. I installed Windows 10 using Windows 7 key, but I decided come back to 7 and make dualboot with linux just for browsing.

[@kevinhanley6462]

I've done a recent check with my 6th generation i7 2700K 3.50GHz 4 cores 8 threads CPU and has SSE 4.2. It's scary how Windows 11 could become unusable at any time, so would be wise for people to stick with Windows 10 and experiment with Linux a few times to see if Wine will get your Windows apps and games running or ProtonDB for gaming.

[@UneducatedPcBuilder]

When your os cost more than your cpu…

[@Ferrolune]

My experience with popcnt was filtering and reducing 1.5 million combinatoric sets. Traditionally it took 5 seconds, but with popcnt it was down to ~300 milliseconds AFTER I found a way to represent and operate on the data in a single word. Basically, code go vroom, vroom! For a Windows end user, you will not notice much if any of a performance gain.

[@dzxtricks]

I notice that at the very latest Windows 11 Dev Built I found that Transparency is now very heavy to run. My GPU is Integrated Vega 8 laptop, it's not powerful, but Transparency works well before the latest update.

[@dwarf365]

Don't care. Win 11 will NEVER touch one of my PCs. If my first gen Ryzen (R5-1600) isn't good enough, Microsoft can kiss my ass. My main will stay on 10 and if 12 isn't sorted out ALL of my PCs will be Linux boxes. Simple as.

[@WhoLover]

No. Windows 11 sucks. My CPU is fine and my PC is fine without all the spyware that comes with Win11

[@bhargavjitbhuyan9394]

Then use windows 7 or linux.

[@WhoLover]

@@bhargavjitbhuyan9394 planning on it. Bit too attached to Win10 so I'm sticking to that for now, but I might put linux on my old laptop

[@psyxx_]

I wish i could go back but i cant, it wont let me :( slows my computer down way more than 10 ever did

[@WhoLover]

@@bhargavjitbhuyan9394 planning on it. Too attached and used to Win10. Might put linux on my laptop since it's a bit old though

[@bhargavjitbhuyan9394]

@@psyxx_ you can backup your files and wipe your disk or ssd and install windows 10. If you have old hardware, why not give linux a shot? You don't really have to even install it. You try it and see if your hardware works. Use works for you. Not what Microsoft wants you to use. Let it be windows 10 , linux , BSD etc. Steps to install windows , linux whatever. You need a pendrive Backup your disk Make a bootable pendrive with Rufus, dd, ventoy, balena etcher Try or flash Done. It is better to watch a KZbin tutorial.

[@XxTWMLxX]

RIP Core 2 Duo CPUs finally getting to rest.

[@Katesgamingcorner]

You know what's funny? My 6th Gen core i7 6700HK meets all the requirements for windows 11 but because it's a 6th Gen and not a 7th Gen it's not eligible for windows 11.

[@ayoCC]

My Intel i7 7700k also does not meet requirements

[@theshadowoftruth7561]

I got this popup with a system running an AMD R5 2600. I just ignored it. Not the popcnt just my CPU wasn't supported.

[@Jenny_Digital]

Also used in error correction and detection. EDIT:- I bet they decided to optimise their code by discontinuing support for processors that don’t have it. EDIT 2:- Back in my pre-teen years I was writing 6502 assembly language and we didn’t have multiply, divide, or floating point support without doing the leg work ourselves. Floating point in 6502 is slow and hard work BTW.

[@magicdippyegg]

Waiting for another update…

[@danieldyman7196]

Ive got a laptop i use to tune cars with, its about 15 years old and still runs windows 10 with little issue. If i tried to install windows 11 on this dual core monster i think it would have the computer version of a stroke

[@gatogordo1]

0:01 man i remember that time when we raided the Mac’osoft Headquartes

[@bulldata]

Logic gates. Ha! I started with hardwire programming. Required that one knew how logic flowed through the gates to pass to other chips. Used to program IBM hollerith card sorting machines. 1024 wires, box of labels, graph chart, and "motherboard" with 2048 holes. Create a logic chart. Label the wires. Install the wires. Call the mainframe office and make an appointment to run your "program." After two weeks, usually, they call to inform you of the pass or fail of your diagram. If yours fails, you had to start from scratch.

[@spilt-milkie]

Are you, like 65?

[@bulldata]

@@spilt-milkieI wish. Much older.

[@bitwize]

Imagine if people got assmad that Windows 95 didn't work with their Z80 CPU from 1979.That's what this is like.

[@jeffb.6642]

yeah and back in those days, hardware advancement was a lot more fast paced than it has been in the last decade and a half. The idea that a 10-year old CPU would even be close to capable for anything modern was simply unheard of at the time. We all got spoiled by Intel's refusal to innovate for the better part of 10 years until AMD shook up the market with Ryzen, and this is what happens. Hardware advancements are actually noticeable again and we have more people than ever still using early Core i7s and such because until recently, they've had little reason to upgrade.

[@ABaumstumpf]

@@jeffb.6642 "We all got spoiled by Intel's refusal to innovate for the better part of 10 years until" That is just wrong. In that time Intel had spent literally billions on research and development and had changed a lot in their CPU design while having trouble cause they had too high goals for the 10nm. They had 2 finished architectures for 10nm that they couldn't produce and had to design a complete second line at the same time. Now just imagine a CPU like the i5 12400 but back in 2016 - that is BEFORE first gen Ryzen. Yes - that is what they had planned and developed.

[@flexmasterize]

@@ABaumstumpf LOL, intel fanboyism at its finest. I guess it was just sheer coincidence that the next gen of CPUs that Intel put out after Ryzen dropped finally upped the core count from 4C/8T.

[@ABaumstumpf]

@@flexmasterize " intel fanboyism at its finest" So you got no clue and cause you know you are wrong you try ad Hominem instead of actually making an argument. Yeah there is a fanboy: You.

[@DeadRaider37]

Dang, guess I can't be running windows 11 on that old Core 2 Duo anymore edit: it's a terrible dell optiplex that I was shocked to find was 64 bit, it played a youtube video at barely 10 fps, it's only really good as a Linux server, and I got it to run windows 11 once as a joke

[@DrFunFong]

So, does this mean that Microsoft will be re-expanding the CPUs eligible for Windows 11, eventually?

[@CC-1.]

Like I think there might be not someone with duo core running win 11 but there might be some customs,exclusives etc

[@dmitriivanov7143]

Running Windows 11 on a Core 2 Quad Q9550 based system with 16Gigs of RAM, and it runs like a champ. The hard POPCNT requirement for the 24H2 would be really unfortunate for me.

[@bulldata]

Theo, thanks for this explanation and the advice on the freeware to detect it. When my system loaded the upgrade, my computer refused to restart. I sat watching a black sceen for a looooong time. I had to reinstaall an earlier build of Windows to regain control.

[@blunderingfool]

That is just flat-out disgusting behaviour from MS.

[@bulldata]

Strange. My cpu supports the required cpu instructions.

[@sklynexd]

It's Thio but his name is probably Joe

[@MundaneGray]

ThioJoe says he’s not sure how to pronounce Nehalem. Meanwhile, the correct pronunciation is RIGHT THERE on the screen, clearly spelled out in the first line of the Wikipedia article.

[@robertc.9503]

TBF, not everyone understands the IPA. That said, I think it's funny he went with a middle-eastern sounding pronunciation.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

My CPU is from 2015 (i5-6600) and it has no support for Windows 11 at all.

[@httydmrdragon1409]

Around 1:50 you look like an elf with those pointy ears. :P -Nice!

[@typingcat]

Seems like a simple instruction. Why can't the OS use use other instructions to count 1's, if PopCnt is not available? It should not be hard.

[@anon_y_mousse]

They can and were previously. This is just about the SIMD variant.

[@tgheretford]

It is worth nothing that Linux is also going the same way as Windows and removing support for older CPU architectures and those that lack specific instructions. So unless you find a niche distribution that supports older hardware or run a legacy version of a distribution with the inherent security risks, you'll also end up in the same position of your hardware being landfill bound.

[@sihamhamda47]

Yeah, considering that most linux distros has already stopped the update support of 32-bit only version since a couple years ago, I can see this coming very soon

[@cry2love]

CPU makers - Let's make chips that can work forever! Microsoft - Give me money, money me, money now, me a money needing a lot now. (planned obsolescence mode ON)🤝

[@MrChemluthHavanna]

I still have the ThinkPad X31 as a last Backup, because it is the most robust hardware what I have, but I have installed Linux.

[@outtheredude]

They've already shifted support for Microsoft Store Apps to supporting only SSE 4.2 based processors with the latest updates, so they no longer work with processors like Core 2 Quad Q9650s and earlier. It seems that when they updated their development environment for the latest beta version of Windows 11, they're also using the same development environment for Microsoft Store Apps. The same development environment is also increasingly used by third party website developers too. Good job I can still turn my Core 2 Quad Q9650 machine into a full blown XP retro rig. Who needs Windows 10 or 11 anyways? ;-)

[@xsparky0168]

logic gates>every other cs unit taught at school, truly a goated subject

[@Graeme_Lastname]

Needs a newer CPU so the bloatware doesn't affect the "user experience" too much.

[@роскомнадзор-д8я]

cope and seethe, 80386 user

[@volvo09]

These are cpu's from like 2007 and back, there is no reason to be running windows 11 on a system that shipped with XP or vista. When Win7 came out no one was crying that you couldn't install it on a Pentium3 system... This is the same thing. Absolutely no reason to expect modern software to run on such an outdated machine.

[@ckingpro]

@@volvo09agreed but I will point out that you could install Windows 7 on Pentium 3. Windows 8 upped the requirement to at least SSE2. However, Windows 7 finally required SSE2 for newer updates in 2018

[@volvo09]

@@ckingpro but just because you can, doesn't mean it's got real world demand... I supported some old systems and never once did I run into someone actually using win7 or wanting to use it on a P3... I have some in my collection and I don't think I'd even try it for the heck of it. It's pointless to keep supporting such old hardware with modern OS's. Others have mentioned modern software is requiring it before windows. You can easily find newer computers for free, I have a small pile of 2nd and 3rd gen i5 desktops and laptops, I stopped accepting them because I came across enough, I'll only pick one up if I know someone who could use a free computer. So in my opinion if newer machines are reaching "junk" status, there is no need to support even older machines. Just stick to win10...

[@ABaumstumpf]

@@ckingpro "agreed but I will point out that you could install Windows 7 on Pentium 3. " But a Pentium 2 !!!! was closer to Win7 release than this Win11 update to the CPUs it doesn't support anymore. Yes - it is that old. Have you also complained about not being able to run Win8 on a P2?

[@UberNeuman]

PopCnt was the original title for the film Mean Girls.

[@ishouldcomeupwithagoodname]

i7-920 from November 2008 is the oldest CPU that can unofficially run Windows 11 24H2. On AMD side the FX series from 2011.

[@guygrotke8059]

Another very useful use of POPCNT is for allocating resources like fixed-size memory blocks. Each 1 bit would represent an allocated block. So the allocation software would check a map of words for a free block. POPCNT would make this about 64 times faster than checking each bit. BUT the fact is it's not at all complicated to check each bit without POPCNT.

[@lurkerrekrul]

I think we should apply Microsoft's strategy to everything! For example, first you pick the graphics driver you want, then you buy a graphics card that supports it. Or you decide on a printer driver, then you buy a printer that's compatible with it. I mean, that all makes perfect sense, right?

[@elmariachi5133]

Saying first "Intel Core series" is wrong. The "Intel Core" series (Core2Duo, Core2Quad and Dopthan/Banias later renamed to Core Solo) existed before the "Core i" series and die NOT support SSE 4.2, opposed to the later "Intel Core i series".

[@probablyyourneighbororsome8412]

I was panicking thinking my i5 8600 wasn't gonna work anymore.. I wouldn't be too supersized lol

[@NEONBOXYT]

I actually missed my cpu instruction introduction class. Thanks for the video 😂.

[@sontodosnarcos]

4:13 The "Hemingway"

[@ivanlimzg]

I googled and apparently games like Overwatch already have the requirement So actually Microsoft implementing it shouldn't be too much of a surprise In any case, POPCNT CPUs(according to Wikipedia) date all the way back to 2003, and as you mentioned, from the 1st gen of the Core Series. So while the complaints might be valid, but I feel they are unnecessary, cos YT already shows that W11 on ancient machines suck, the YT-ers prefer 7 or 10 instead

[@resneptacle]

The Core series launched in 2006. That aside, games ain't the only thing people do on computers

[@256odeon]

@@resneptacle your point being?

[@apocalypticbean]

Is Thio short for Theodore? Never heard of that before?

[@basshead.]

Thiago