This Bow Company Took a Shot for the Moon MFJJ x Tim Connor (ep 86)

[@TimConnor13]

about time ya'll get the pod up!

[@HawkeyeIK802]

Ya, almost like an extra one needs to go up to make up for the late one

[@TimConnor13]

@@HawkeyeIK802 going to be a rough month for the pod, lots of travel. One more special episode this year likely.

[@johnpringle5358]

@@TimConnor13 ya killing me smalls

[@jordanhudson5075]

Brother get that shit off your top lip ! lol 😂

[@KillingStuffWithJosephJackson]

Note that Prime designs their top cam different than the bottom in order to achieve good nock travel while having the grip in the center. Primes do point/aim better than any other bow I have ever shot in my experience.

[@ApexPredatorOutdoors]

I did a video thermal testing the Prime aerogel grip and recorded the results with a Flir camera. It worked out really well, temperature wise it wasn't that much difference but the big difference was that I didn't lose any heat from my hand into the bow.

[@cjr4497]

The Prime Form is really something special. It represents real innovation

[@MichaelSchultz-mv7im]

I can deal with the price of my bow which is the lift 33. Having said that they are very expensive. But the thing I can’t get behind is the price of the accessories for my bow. I mean just look at the stabs and then on top of that you have to buy the set screw for 20.00 bucks. And it goes on sights, quivers etc.

[@woodson159]

Thank you guys so much for doing this podcast, hands down my favorite I could listen to you guys talk about bows for hours!!

[@ChefBased888]

This tardiness is unacceptable.

[@jayminer9416]

I feel Prime MAY have opened the door for a whole new wave of archery tech. IDGAF what people think of the aesthetics, they literally brought something NEW to the table for the first time in a long time....not just BNG, $700 sights, or self tuning adjustments...which I like...but that keeps us out of the shops as much and thats a huge part of the fun for me.....BS'ing with the guys at the shop. Im excited to see how this evolves.

[@osagemannn]

I look on Monday for the pod to drop, but it's been late for the last 2 weeks! I still have my Prime Centergy from 2017. I love the double cams, makes a very stable shot. I like the free strings every 2 years. But, I only change them every 3 years. As always, great insight. Thanks again...

[@AC-ut8pl]

Personally, I don’t think Bowtech’s weight should even be much of an issue. It’s 34 axle to axle and a mere 5 or 6 ounces heavier than a lift x 33. I’m both a midwestern and western hunter, and I think in a real life hunting scenario, that weight difference is negligible. When you’re packing out an elk hindquarter, is a guy really going to say, “Boy this pack out would be way easier if my bow was 5 ounces lighter”…

[@jacobbaugus6311]

I feel sorry for the people only listening to the pod who, unfortunately, could not see that the fire was still blazing in that stove! ... I build all this trust from seemingly honest reviews, and then this! 😂 Love the content guys! Keep it up! Hope to visit the Nashville front sometime!

[@davidmuz5654]

I genuinely enjoy these podcasts, thanks guys! Keep up the great work. 🍻

[@rogermcclain2074]

Awesome you listen to Andy…CTI is the best damn podcast going hands down!!

[@tommy001996]

Like I said in you review, I don t really doubt the Form will hold. Nowadays some mountain bike, even downhill bike, are made from carbon tubes et some sort of lugs (Atherton s are titanium printed lugs) bonded together and I m pretty sure those bike are seeing more stress than a riser.

[@DirtyBirdHunter]

Thanks guys good listen. Look forward to it each week

[@blackbeard0323]

I agree 100% with MFJJ on the Prime. If it was priced at the regular price of flagship aluminum bows, it would crush!

[@KillingStuffWithJosephJackson]

I agree with him also though that it is reasonably priced. It’s not as “cheap” as their aluminum, but it is cheaper than all the other traditional carbon bows.

[@adamduley2670]

Great discussion! Have been enjoying these. 👍

[@tyroneszili537]

I've been shooting the cheap lighted nocks, 6 for $18, for about 6 or 7 months now, I have about 3 dozen of them, in green, blue and red lights, I've had zero issues, they work every time, they're bright, haven't affected arrow flight, they're easy to turn off, and they come with inserts to fit any diameter arrow, and I have them on black eagle zombie slayers and rampages, Easton axis, and altra centriums. They've worked great for me, that's all I can speak on about them, my experience with them.

[@robertyoung1938]

We need a video on integrating the darton system on another bow!

[@williamdevito4630]

A huge Mathews selling point is their low weight but the amount of weight needed on the back bar to balance out the top heaviness negates that in my experience.

[@thomasknopp4485]

I shoot my lift with no stabilizer or back bar and it shoots great.

[@stevenhornbuckle8007]

Great session as usual. Like your thoughts on the Driver release, I talked with my local bow shop (he follows you) tech, salesman, bow hunter and he is ordering one for me. I await when you do a your typical in-depth review. Thanks for you guys sharing your thoughts and perspectives. Growing the sport!

[@matthewgoins2459]

Prime answered the question that nobody asked. Bless em.

[@josephr1198]

Everyone is asking for innovation, Prime is the closest to it.

[@connor_bohnts]

Here is my take on the prime. I think the bow and the concept is super cool and I think it is interesting that someone decided to take somewhat of a risk in changing things up over the regular norm. I think where they could really gain some ground is if they made it a modular system. If they made carbon posts that would allow you to have a 30 inch bow for hunting and then later have another set of carbon posts that are longer that allow you to lengthen your bow riser length. What that could create is a 38 inch bow with the change of cable and strings and of course the standard carbon posts within the riser. I hope to see this happen because I think that could really change the game for those that want to hunt with a short bow and practice and shoot 3D/target with a longer bow. Food for thought but overall very satisfied with the ambitious change from Prime and the team at G5

[@nhdavis]

That would be a cool idea but that would result in lots of blown up bows. Not having a fixed connection to the aluminum parts and having small variances in the fight to allow the posts to be changed out would not be good at all. Who knows, maybe finding a way to change out posts while still having the stiffness in the riser is something they're also working on. But with the amount of stress being put on those posts, they'd need to be fixed and permanently attached to aluminum.

[@connor_bohnts]

@@nhdavis I agree I do not think that bow can handle that kind of stress at this point in the time. Prime does have some good engineers and think they just opened the door for some pretty cool improvements.

[@Makka316]

@@nhdavis I agree. I don't think a modular system at the consumer end would work but I can see how this sort of modular design could be great from a manufacturing efficiency/cost perspective. They have literally created a system that simply requires different length carbon rods to make different length bows. All the other parts - except maybe cam size - can remain identical and they could produce maybe 3 standard sizes (e.g. 30", 32", 34") plus have a custom size option at a higher price for those that want something outside of the standard size. After that they could create a target bow platform based on the same design principals and do the same thing.

[@oklahomanights3042]

Interesting discussion regarding patent protection and intellectual property. The most obvious example I can think of for archery is the UV Button. UV retails for $350 vs a seemingly identical Chinese knockoff for $70-100 on eBay. I’d be curious to know how just how different the knockoff release actually is

[@BlindlyWatching]

To claim that they couldn't make things at more than 25% less without using the same material is absolutely false on so many of these products. The new UV Slider is a perfect example. Most sights are far more expensive than they need to be, but the UV Slider took it to another level.

[@josephmoon1270]

You hate apa 😂 I love it. I can change strings and tune without a press. Love the review and the pod!!! Thanks for taking the time and all the information

[@AndrewCoyne-z7m]

Just started watching you guys and elk shape this year. Love the bow reviews and look forward to the sight review videos. Hopefully we can get Josh and Tim's opinions on them

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

I loved my old dialed arxos so I know I'm going to love the new one

[@kmorrow63]

Another great pod guys!

[@davidtbowen8019]

Congrats on 10k! Keep it up!!

[@johnpringle5358]

That second of this pod is why buy from MFJJ and listen to him. He doesn’t care about his image to the supplier. Just the customer

[@Orr_s]

Wowww. Missed you goons. At work in the pouring rain on a service call in little old Rhode Island and see this upload! 👊🏼🙏🏼💪🏼

[@Bowhunter82]

Be safe out there bud I live in Connecticut this storm is bad

[@Orr_s]

@ yeah man thankfully ive been inside most of the day working as a road service tech for Crown. Thanks, you as well! Im jus hoping theres no water in the basement or tree branches on my truck when i get home😂

[@fr8cture]

Axcel launched the landslyde way before they were available. I found one at some random archery shop halfway across the country in 2021.

[@stephenray9007]

Long draw eastern hunter here, the Darton consequence is absolutely perfect, 31 inch’s at 70 pounds

[@Bearhawk_Life]

The prime bow is super innovative, but I am unsure of the nock point being above center…. Thoughts?

[@Fite234]

55:37 didn't they drop this back to 6k aluminum, too? Something about it adhering better with the carbon? I understand the aluminum version to still be 7k aluminum.

[@terrysnodgrass702]

Darton consequence. 31.5" draw. 30" ATA. Low reflex. Great bow for tree stand hunters with long arms.

[@DarkGuardian94]

I think the Prime Form is cool. I think it will do a lot for archery as a whole. I have talked to two bow shops around me today and it seems like getting the new 2025 bows is going to be hard for a bit. I was told for a Lift X 29.5 it would be like 4 weeks wait to get it. Same on Hoyt and longer on PSE.

[@gratefuldude82]

We are getting mathews and hoyt weekly but no word at all on our pse order. Been 2 months since we ordered... not even the preview package

[@DarkGuardian94]

@gratefuldude82 im located in Central NC. My main two shops are about 35 minutes one way from me. My problem is I'm left handed. Not sure if thats the real reason or not.

[@Orr_s]

What about ordering a lift x in certain specs and colors etc that youd want from your shop if they dont have it in stock, like how you can design it and save it on the site to have your shop order that spec one. Wonder how long that would take to get in. If im paying that much for a Lift X id want it in certain specs and colors not just whatever the shop has on hand

[@gratefuldude82]

@@DarkGuardian94 we haven't gotten any of the lefties we've ordered.

[@gratefuldude82]

@Orr_s shop lead time will be the same but we've about decided that if mathews wants to sell direct to customer they can send someone to work on them direct to the customer too. We can't keep the doors to this shop open with $35 setup fees!

[@motoxron1]

Tell Black Gold to make a 3 pin vertical micro adjust 🙏🏻

[@GAA777]

I am a BG fan, but a few more things to change up - 2nd axis, larger knob (not an adapter) with smoother trac (the plastic does keep the weight minimal), indicator needles to have more travel (machine the slot), and toolless elevation and windage.

[@zachbuller]

Aye shout out to Andy frisella! Great pod guys

[@Below_Average_Sports]

Josh has been saying for a while now that a now brand would make a bow that starts to not look like what we know as a bow and here comes Prime with the Form

[@ChrisSmoove77]

It still looks the same. He was talking about the limbs and cams with how we’re capped with the speeds

[@jonathanbarksdale8595]

Josh please deep dive the Dialed pruf.

[@skylermoore9322]

I think the prime form is cool, but admittedly I wanted it to grab me more, and make me really consider it for a new bow, but something about it feels like it’s lacking to me. My local pro shop is great, but it’s a one man show, which means getting a bow tuned can take weeks, sometimes even a month or more before he can get to it. Which makes me really drawn to bows I can tune myself. So far this year the Lift X is really the only bow that got me excited, which sucks cuz I really wanted the Form to do the same.

[@travisbowers5143]

I'm debating between Lift X and that Darton Sequel. I made fun of my buddy for years that shot a old early 90s Darton until about 5 years ago...I had no idea they were still around but the tunability of the Darton is pretty cool. That said, price is the same as Lift and its heavier ...

[@skylermoore9322]

@ even tho I currently shoot a mathews, I’m no simp for them. But I have to agree with MFJJ it’s just hard to not want their stuff when they’re just doing everything right. I’ve heard great things about Darton, but it’s hard to give them the same look when the lift x is lighter, price, plus all the integration features. I really wanted prime and bowtech to blow me away like the lift did, but I think I need to handle them all and see….which is also a problem cuz my pro shop will only stock the Lift X

[@travisbowers5143]

@@skylermoore9322 Agree. I've shot Mathews since 2001 so be awful tough to get me to change at this point. Just thought the Darton was interesting with its tuning features. Swapping top hats on my Halon is a huge pain in the butt, seems like I need to do it every couple years. The Lift X would be the ticket

[@Bob-kp2ut]

I am a 32” draw and it sucks, I have very very limited options. This new bowtech is looking great to me.

[@buckallison7279]

Been waiting all week

[@dbowburton]

Josh you’re a rocker! How did you overlook that the zebra bow is the Ted Nugget bow!!! 😳

[@waynehumphrey8910]

Expedition bows have intrigued me for a few years with the magnite their weight is probably the lightest on the market but they’re speed falls short and small companies scare me

[@chasesomethingoutdoors5081]

Bear also use the standard spacers

[@jerryjohnson525]

So question for both of you.....literally just getting into archery from ground zero. Got my first bow (Mission Switch) the week before Thanksgiving. What would be your advice going forward for me?

[@innerstrenghtfitness]

Congratulations on starting this amazing journey of archery and bow hunting. If I had to give myself one advice when I first started, it would be: Before you even get a bow, get a “Shot Trainer”. Use two cameras and a screen to work extensively on form; more exclusively on front hand contact points and back hand anchoring. If you master near perfect technique for just those two factors, it won’t matter what bow, arrow, string, sight, rest, or any other configuration you shoot. Mastering those two would set you up for success more than anything else. Wish you luck.

[@xdivineHART]

38:00 how about a bow that maxes at 30inch draw, then a long d-loop?

[@Ducatistto]

MFJJ needs to make a video about that idea to having the Ghost Stix in the back of the bow It looks interesting the place of the legs and how to make it usable :O

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

That's exactly what I was just writing. It's different but it's kind of cool looking in a way

[@DarkGuardian94]

Here we......... GO!!!

[@davidmayers1645]

Great vid...Clarify at somepoint exactly what the Db's mean. I don't think a lot of people realize that 10db more is 2X as loud to human hearing. So 7db difference is still big with what an animal would hear! I think that matters more than 5-10 ft/sec in speed, thoughts?

[@zachlewis9451]

The fan in front of the wood stove, what is that and where can I get it?! That is awesome

[@craigenhare3287]

Love the content

[@tyroneszili537]

I wish you would review the new Xpedition Xlite, I shoot 2 other Xpeditions and would like to know if you think it's worth the $1850 price tag.

[@johnlanders5505]

Ill be making the trip to Nashville

[@kylemacdonell1450]

Hey Team,, mathews bigger issue IMO is the fact they don't have 1/4" draw adjustment or better ways to tweak letoff

[@wpshelton]

I would argue that they can definitely get the costs down to atleast 50-60% of the cost. Just look at the price of Chinese knives these days. It will take time for them to perfect the bows just like the knife industry. Manufacturing techniques are improving in quality and the price is coming down quickly. You can see this in the 3d printing industry also with 3d printing machines increasing in quality while the price is staying the same or dropping.

[@jay_c140]

What's MFJJ's opinion on the Megameat after using it? Also has he considered the G5 dead meat for an alternative to the fatal steel. 1 1/2" cut and rear deploy.

[@stevenschmitz2361]

LOL you got him, FMJJ SNAP

[@CopeyJ325]

You have any info and/or experience with the Burris Oracle 2?

[@johnshroka7775]

Be cool to see them do a review on the new hca and the claim of 360 fps

[@thenameiwantedwastaken]

Can we get a Mach 35 review, please?

[@dennishollingsworth8193]

Great shop

[@johnsmith1812]

Is this an archery podcast or an ASMR energy drink review 0:25

[@mussersbowsboatsandscience6610]

SR on comfort is great

[@josephr1198]

Are you gonna yest the new diamond, and where can I find the spreadsheet?

[@workinonitsteve]

Man I thought you guys were dead 😂 better late than never.

[@JohnHamburg-u4n]

They need to make a sight with a wheel that has a digital read out.

[@daemonescarnifex]

Should have stood up the bowtech in frame to show off using the GoStix on it

[@brycekearns207]

Isn't hha dropping a new sight hopefully 3 pin vertical

I was waiting patiently…thought you two had unexpectedly fallen into a random precipice…or went on vacation…

[@angelosantora6625]

Zebra pattern should be the ted Nugent edition 😂

[@chadaplin21]

Mathews 33 vs Bowtech 34 comparison video please!

[@xdivineHART]

i just saw a bow with a mathews riser and bowtech limbs and cams

[@Timline69]

What stand is on that Bowtech Proven?

[@Verticalbowoutdoors]

Is that the new bowtech lawsuit 34 you pulled out?

[@lrdoutdoors2975]

Didn’t bowtech sue Athens over the tuning system and force them into bankruptcy and/or closing?

[@ryansullivan9413]

I go back and forth on patents preventing innovation. Think about it, if there were not patents stopping Darton and Mathews from copying bowtech what would have motivated them to finding other solutions that could be better than the dead lock system?

[@blessedvetoutdoors]

Love you JJ, but I wouldn't necessarily say that bowtech took a shot for the moon. Like you said, the sight and over all the bow itself was just an after thought. They slapped a few new tech accessories on the bow, a LD option (niche) and a dovetail integration that is different than the one they had last year. Last year's seemed to be more streamlined. People have been wondering if the sight integration on bowtech was scrubbed because of possible infringement on another's patent.

[@Chasin_Racks]

What is the stand thats on the Proven you built MFJJ?????

[@ArchieRodenbo]

MFJJ can you ask Mathews if they can make replacement cam shift systems for the Phase 4 that are similar to the Lift X ?

[@SJAYGAMES]

The asmr in the beginning

[@coltongibson7519]

Tell mfjj we need some info on these new Gas strings they came out with!!

[@billyjohnson9203]

I have to disagree patents do drive innovation. Just look at various solutions the bow Mfg have come up with for tuning. Darton Mathews Bowtech and Elite have all come up with different ways to solve the same tuning issue in different ways. If there was no patent they would just copy a design and call it a day. These are some of the best engineers in the world that look for creative solutions to problems. The limitation is the cost that the consumer can bear. Archery is getting to the point where prices are unsustainable. That is my biggest concern.

[@MegaElkaholic]

Tim The primes are slow so you can eliminate it immediately like you did with the rvx 34. Not the feel ,draw cycle ,great grip and free strings OR will Tim become a prime guy.

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

I was going to say I've had three deer this year where I've shot them at the top of the mountain. Well it's a mountain but it goes from about 1,500 ft down to 1100 ft and then it's got two steps in it but it's straight downhill and they literally can make that run in probably 10 to 12 seconds in their death run. So I've been finding them 3/4 way down the hill and all the way at the bottom where the crook is and it's a pain in the ass getting them back up but that's in less than 10 seconds on a lethal hit. I mean they're just taking off and booking though straight down to the thick stuff

[@grantprice6803]

I emailed the owner or manager of Axcel and he said he is staying with Mathews as a staff shooter. Which seems odd considering they went with UV

[@dustinsilva8016]

First 10 min are kinda rough! If you want to put your finger on the scale of innovation tell the reps. I watch you to hear fun convos about new bows and learn something. I have no use for the inner working of a bow shop and what shop owner want company’s to do. Forever a fan.

[@JakeMccullough]

Hybrid bow like the prime but instead of aluminum use the material that the bowtech honor was machine from

[@danwattsmessick]

Hasn’t Bowtech released mid year bows several times recently…?

[@recallthehunt]

GO Pack GO !!!

[@gratefuldude82]

Please reach out to xpedition archery and see if they'll send you a long ata to review!

[@paulheberling2750]

Sabout damn time!!!

[@paulheberling2750]

No pass thru 😔

[@JoelMartinez-us2ko]

Hey Josh put another log in the fire with them hands that have socks

[@jonathanharpe4333]

Sooo im sure I’ll get flak for this. The Prime is 4 Carbon Tubes connected to Aluminum pieces. The 1st Gen Carbon Hoyt’s are Carbon Tubes connected to Aluminum pieces. Yes this is slightly different as the grip section is completely aluminum but that being said it’s also well hideous. Yeah I know we don’t care what something looks like as long as it shoots good IJS it’s multiple colors of bows for a reason. Anyways I hope everyone shoots straight no matter what your rig of choice is

[@hunterslifestyle625]

Axcel > UV

[@easternadventures4254]

Alpha ax-2 29 is $1349