This German jet ran out of fuel!? | Hapag-Lloyd flight 3378

[@GreenDotAviation]

If you found this video interesting, consider supporting my work on Patreon, which gets you early access to new videos! 🟢www.patreon.com/GreenDotAviation

[@sparrowbe4k802]

Good vid, but if your landing gear won't retract then you rtb asap. There's all sorts of problems with flying gear down. I'd like Mentour Pilot to cover this one. (if he hasn't already).

[@sparrowbe4k802]

Especially if you don't know WHY the gear won't retract. (Hydraulics etc.) If the hydraulics have failed to retract the gear then what other flight controls might soon fail. I don't like this one.

[@tonyroy8123]

Far too much commenatary. Unnecessary.

[@SayaAensland]

First officer: We're burning fuel way faster than the FMS says, the FMS is obviously, visibly incapable of providing accurate information about fuel consumption with gear-down flight, we're going to run out of fuel, we need to divert to the nearest airport NOW! Captain: This is fine.

[@isbestlizard]

FO: Sure whatever idc it's not like if we run out of fuel I'm going to die or anything

[@masr8875]

The captain should've stuck to his story and do a PA welcoming the passengers into Vienna

[@artrathousky2878]

Lol

[@andykeith1]

In his mind he made an almost textbook landing. Just a couple of small scratches to the wing 😅

[@noob.168]

@@andykeith1 Ryanair is hiring a pilot that does solid landings.

[@SuperLordHawHaw]

"We won't have to worry about a fire if we crash. You need fuel for that."

[@wgroenewald]

My thoughts exactly as I watched. Pilot was right, they did make it to the runway in Vienna

[@darthvader7684]

Props for the first officer to raising various concerns and plans, he seems to have done excellently, especially for such a green pilot! Props to him.

[@panther7748]

But when the captain did nothing, he should've declared a fuel emergency or even mayday himself. This may require a lot of courage and probably doesn't improve collegiality, but it's better than letting yourself and hundreds of people getting killed by an arrogant moron.

[@horrido666]

Beg to disagree. The incompetency of this crew is off the charts.

[@demoncloud6147]

Because he is secretly the real captain

[@SuperNuclearUnicorn]

I love how the hubris of the captain in trying to avoid looking bad by doing the right thing and declaring a fuel emergency ended up making him look even worse when he crashed and then got exposed on the cockpit recorder as ignoring safety and being arrogant

[@se-kmg355]

It is like KL4805 all over again.

[@troodon1096]

Crashing the plane also looks bad and has the added disincentive that you might not survive to defend your actions.

[@enflamedhuevos]

⁠@@troodon1096Yes, but crashing has the added incentive of meaning you probably won’t have to have any repercussions

[@musicaldoge9412]

If you crash the plane, who’ll be there to complain?

[@henningniehues8023]

He's just the best example of the classic german boomer at work. they're all like that, just usually human lives arent at stake

[@Doogle136]

I just began to follow this channel in the last 10 days and I can't applaud the narrative and graphic presentations enough. Among the countless other aviation channel subscriptions, there isn't one I know of that lays out the story more cogently. Brilliant work Green Dot Aviation. Thanks so much!

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you very much for the kind words! :)

[@derp8575]

@@GreenDotAviation Their radio wasn't working, yet radio communications were 100% for the moon landings. NASA must have top secret technology.

[@MarkPentler]

@@derp8575 🤦‍♂️ Fitting name

[@derp8575]

@@MarkPentler You don't find it odd?

[@tuliosouzaa]

@@derp8575 You literally know absolutely nothing about how radio works, right?

[@eldebo99]

I appreciate the displays being so in sync with the narrative, especially the engine 1 failure checklist appearing then seeing all the displays wink out after losing engine 2.

[@GreenDotAviation]

I’m glad!

[@Knightlight02]

Im a system specialist on A330/A350/A380 and i can vouch. The details in all the videos for Airbus Aircraft are ON POINT. An FMS FUEL PRED UNRELIABLE message can be seen on the aircraft i mentionned, im assuming due this incident!

[@Jszar]

@@GreenDotAviationNarration and displays moving in synchrony helps laypeople quite a bit, too. We can pause and zoom in on what's changed, getting some idea what the pilot's field of view would have been and the visual priority each indicator has.

[@jakeofspurs-pj7it]

What software is used for these sims?

[@Drugiekontonayt]

@@jakeofspurs-pj7itthis is xplane and inibulids a310, but aviation related channels usually use MSFS because it has better visuals

[@TheLukaszpg]

How many tries did it take you on the FS to get such a realistic crash landing across the taxi way? Well done

[@sleazymeezy]

Jokes on us, that was a legit captain trying to land.

[@polduseri909]

Airline motto: “Safety is our main concern” Pilot: “hold my beer”

[@sleazymeezy]

Yea, with how much we were told that flying is super safe there sure as shit are alot of aviation disaster videos out there

[@neilmartin1111]

@@sleazymeezy algorithms' you watch one crash video and get bombarded with loads lol, and I used to love flying !

[@tejaspathak7298]

More like hold my gear

[@muhamadsayyidabidin3906]

​@@sleazymeezytechnically it still is the safest way to travel, seconds only to train perhaps. Ships accident are more common, and even higher number for road crash. If you asked me, I would rather travel in a train or an airplane rather than riding a bus, thank you.

[@Randy-mw1es]

It's a miracle he got that close to that airport and had a wide open flat space to land the air plane

[@321southtube]

I got 3 things from this video. 1. It's "ok" to fly with the gear down but actually it's not. 2. Confirmation bias, complacency and laziness will always lead you to something bad and 3. Green Dot Aviation as usual puts out fantastic, well narrated videos with outstanding Sims and graphics.

[@troodon1096]

Well it's "OK" in the sense that the plane is capable of flight; however the increased drag means it will consume fuel much more quickly; this means the fuel you planned to use is now not enough to reach your originally intended destination.

[@Person01234]

@@troodon1096 It's "ok" in the sense that the plane won't immediately fall out of the sky, but it's not in the sense of wtf are you doing trying to fly all the way to your destination with the gear down, are you on drugs? Turn around and get the broken plane fixed.

[@blackvulcan100]

So safety first was not the captains priority, a miracle no lives lost.

[@nakulkrejimon]

Vienna must be a heck of a place lol

[@lewiscurry562]

There are some great aircraft content makers on KZbin this channel is particularly exceptional - I wish you the greatest success!

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thanks so much! ❤️

[@Airman..]

The Pilot weighted company's loyalty over passengers safety

[@josephconnor2310]

Very illuminating. I wasn't familiar with this incident. It's great that there was no loss of life.

[@justuskaffenberger863]

I dont know why but your videos kind of give me that winter day-cuddle up in bed- feeling. Also always watch them when im sick and can only lay on bed. Thanks for your content

[@garfarrell]

Computer says no! Fantastic video. Very well put together as always. Another aircrash that I was not previously familiar with! Well done!!

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thanks again Gary! Glad you enjoyed it

[@moiraatkinson]

Same. I’m enjoying this newly found channel particularly because almost all the videos I’ve watched are new material to me, which is hard to find after a while. I think it’s amazing how anyone can put graphics together because I wouldn’t have a clue, particularly when it switches to a real photo of the plane.

[@Steveman61]

He should have turned back right after take off. That is what 99 out of 100 pilots had done. The decision to keep going was simply dumb.

[@someguy4915]

@@justinepaula-robilliard Can't find details on that Qantas Sydney to Singapore flight, but Qantas VH-ZNH had an incident last year flying from Sydney to Perth with a stuck gear and they turned around back to Sydney. It is obvious that with the gear sticking out, any aircraft meant to retract the gear will consume significantly more fuel. It also seems obvious that any airport you landed the aircraft in prior to taking off again is required to have safety and rescue equipment ready so that's not an issue either in a stuck gear situation. The reason there was no pan pan pan call was because of the captain making bad decisions so that in fact was exactly why they should've turned back. He was legally required to declare the fuel issue and later even declare a mayday. These are all reasons as to exactly why they should have turned back to their departure airport or at least a nearby airport. This captain was so determined to save the company some money as the airline had their technical staff at other airports than any he could divert to that he risked the entire aircraft and all the lives of those onboard... Ended up writing the aircraft off so very obviously very poor decision making from a captain... Do you have a flight number or other information to find that Qantas flight from Sydney to Singapore?

[@someguy4915]

@@justinepaula-robilliard You are assuming this video is the first and only information I read/watched about this incident... Reasoning that an accident has multiple facets doesn't excuse the fact that the captain performed very poor here, as is also stated by the incident report. The captain made a decision and from then on refused to evaluate his own decision, something that is the main task a captain has. Even if the aircraft would've made it to the landing safely and with the legal minimum amount of fuel left over the performance of the captain was poor. CRM training as a result of this and similar incidents has luckily largely resolved this, though we still have occasional incidents. Here it is just shocking that it wasn't a captain arrogantly screaming that he/she was the big boss and the FO should stay quiet but it was a captain who refused clear signs that his decision was bad. You make a decision, days later you realize it was the wrong one. This can happen to anyone and is mostly fine, depending on how smart the decision was back then. Deciding that the gear out wouldn't consume significantly more fuel was already a bad decision but this is not the main concern. Deciding to not evaluate his own decision because the conclusion might be unfavorable is very bad. Deciding to not declare the fuel situation, as he was legally required to do, is becoming malicious, purposely hiding evidence... Deciding to at this point still not fly to a nearby military base by calling a mayday was terrible decision-making. Deciding after crashing to lie about 'sudden fuel loss before landing' to try and subvert the incident investigation and reduce bad press by playing the hero was malicious. This captain had bad luck: some incorrect bolt preventing his gear from retracting. He then chose to lie about, deceive and ignore the situation until he crashed. Nothing speaks positively for the captain in this incident, that doesn't mean the bolt started the entire incident, just that the captain caused it to become so severe.

[@someguy4915]

@@justinepaula-robilliard Tenerife also was a collection of exceptions (terrorist attack, bomb threat at destination airport, diversion to Tenerife airport, small sized airport so taxiing over the runway, severe fog on runway, van Zanten (captain KLM 747) cutting in line, PA and ATC stepping on each other on the radio, ATC using non-standard and ambiguous calls on the radio which eventually lead to van Zanten ignoring his FO and ramming his aircraft into another... A tragic example of the same issue here: a captain deciding that his perfect scenario MUST be true and anything proving otherwise must be fake... It is not best practice to get as close to the destination as possible, it is best practice to be as safe as reasonably possible, where you got the idea that destination and convenience go over safety I don't know. Had the captain followed the procedure for gear out flight he would've known. Had he followed protocol instead of choosing to ignore the protocol and just use a computer which wasn't designed for it he would've realized his full situation and landed asap. The sole reason we have pilots flying an aircraft is because things sometimes change. We can make aircraft that would taxi, take-off, cruise, land and taxi all autonomously, but we'd still want two people sitting in the front in case anything unexpected happens. A captain is deemed a captain instead of an FO due to experience and leadership. This captain locked up in a wrong decision made based upon incorrect (though individually perhaps logical) assumptions. No matter how you twist it, this captain should not have been a captain on such a flight with the way he ignored all signs that he had a serious issue. It is true that some flights do fly with down gear, but never to their destination airport unless they have massive fuel reserves, which this HL flight didn't have. In any case I'm sure landing at an alternate airport and dealing with passengers having to stay at a hotel and possible visa issues is a lot of work but you know what is more work? Crashing an aircraft, or at least the aftermath... ;) No I do not solely blame the captain here, I am just amazed by his performance during this incident.

[@huskkyy]

@@justinepaula-robilliard The manual does actually state that the FMS fuel prediction should not be used in non-normal flight conditions. aka gear down. This was in the manual at the time which is available but I can't post the link here becasue itll flag this comment as spam. While its good that they landed safely, if this was over an ocean for example this couldve turned the poor decisions by the PIC into fatal consequences.

[@HDJess]

True, that's what most people with normal logical thinking would do. I would instantly turn around and land if my gear wouldn't retract, even if only to save myself the trouble of dealing with checklists, fuel calculations, diverting, etc, etc. It would also not put me in the position to land at an airport not covered by my maintenance company, in which case I'd be creating huge extra costs to my airline.

[@jack002tuber]

If I was the FO and know the computer was not giving my the right info I would take a stopwatch ( I have one on my watch) and record the fuel loss over time. Then tell the capt we have N hours, min left in the tank. Simple to do.

[@se-kmg355]

And that is being done by routine on every flight, and as mentioned in the video they discovered they had consumed 60& more fuel than the flight plan estimate, however they made up an excuse that the climb to cruise uses more fuel.

[@bluedistortions]

​@@se-kmg355 If they were so convinced that was true, the above suggestion would have proven or disproven this theory in minutes. They didnt seem to think any of this through very logically.

[@adityabee1]

In July, 2017 an Air india flight (probably an A320) from Kolkata to Mumbai had to land at Nagpur when the crew discovered they had forgotten to retract the landing gear and were running out of fuel.

[@bluedistortions]

What is it with idiot pilots..?

[@Dakiraun]

Again, so interesting to see how one single thing - a bolt - starts a series of small mistakes that compound into a disaster (albeit one that thankfully was not deadly). I think it also illustrates the issue of computer-reliance. All too often it is "assumed" the computer knows everything, but in this case, it can only know what it was programmed to know about fuel consumption calculations. My wife's grandmother was one of the first female pilots in Canada, and in those days, you had to fly by what few analogue systems you had, and one heck of a lot of knowledge and understanding of flight. The one thing it seems we are slowly losing is as things becoming increasingly automated and computerized, that hands-on knowledge of how to fly manually is diminishing.

[@fluffy-fluffy5996]

Yeah it should accommodate us, but not replace being able to actually calculate and have knowledge now lost due to heavy reliance on computers. I think if I would ever become a pilot (I would love to but hey, the money just for the license and then have access to a place is not within my reach whatsoever. So I’ll reinstall msfs2020 and try there with my joystick and just one throttle lol. Or crash myself on the mobile ones. However, if I could, I’d like the less computerized ones so I can actually fly manually and keep sharp about fuel, oillevels, take off speed and landing speed (and weight in case I would be flying to small villages in nowhereland and drop food and medical things) and all the things now generally calculated by a computer and only landing and take off are still manually done though many planes could even land themselves. I know that’s a time of high workload but imagine you basically have 15minutes or less on a 10h flight.

[@Dakiraun]

@@fluffy-fluffy5996 Yeah - to a similar degree, it's like all these new automated driving assistance things in cars. I would MUCH rather see money put towards creating (and enforcing) good drivers instead of relying on the car to do more and more _for_ the driver.

[@jack002tuber]

The addition of training on WHAT TO DO IF THE GEAR WON'T GO UP would have done all they needed

[@fairyprincess911]

There are some who watch flight channels who are convinced planes should be totally computerized 🙀🙀🙀

[@jack002tuber]

@@fairyprincess911 I think they have too many computers now

[@jbconno]

To be fair though, he did make it to Vienna ;-) Great videos, keep up the good work.

[@anadubar4819]

He was an idiot but also a brilliant pilot.

[@jaycee145]

😂😂😂

[@squirrelhallowino29]

I just feel irritated that he didn't kept the altitude. Like sure maybe something is not right, but just aviate the god damn plane brother, keep the altitude so if there really is a problem you can just glide there. Also he could've just kept the engines at idle up there, and power up on final. This is such a dumb crash idk

[@Rage-_-Quit]

Literally like in a videogame where you crash but your wreckage passing the finish line still counts lol

[@patmx5]

Maxwell Smart voice *Missed it by that much*

[@big_man_ank1768]

in an attempt to prevent bad media he literally destroyed a plane and tried to make an excuse ppl do alot of stupid shit under stress

[@jack002tuber]

The root cause was not knowing how far he could go on his fuel. It was so preventable. Ego did seem to play a factor.

[@lisamarieashby2523]

People do a lot of s**t when they are so arrogant that they do not know what their priorities SHOULD BE!

[@falanglao01]

I remember that aircraft remained on site at VIE for many years until the legal case was finally settled. I know the guy who drove the pushback tractor used to tow away the wreck. Interesting story, luckily noone was hurt.

[@troodon1096]

26 people were injured but thankfully none fatally or seriously.

[@k.5037]

I really enjoy Green Dot videos. You do a fantastic job. I especially like that you cover crashes that I've never seen on any of the other aviation channels. Keep the great content coming, thanks

[@afreightdogslife]

In my opinion this captain lacked CRM knowledge, he overruled or simply ignored/dismissed his first officer's inputs and suggestions. Moreover, as far as I know, no one in their right mind would decide to fly to the destination airport, with the landing gear down due to a landing gear malfunction. The normal action of any profesional crew, is to troubleshoot the malfunction with the use of the QRH (Quick Reference Handbook), and then decide if they are above the maximum landing weight or below the maximum landing weight (depending on aircraft type), in order for them to return to do a landing at the departure airport. If they are to heavy for landing, then they must tell the air traffic controller about their situation and ask permission to go over some specific airspace, in order for them to dump fuel thus bringing the current aircraft weight down to the maximum landing weight, and then land the aircraft safely. This captain ended up getting a severe case of what is commonly referred to in aviation as "Getthereitis Syndrome," and the outcome, sadly was predictable.

[@Glen.Danielsen]

Beautiful graphics. Also excellent narration. 💛🙏🏼

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you 😀

[@jack002tuber]

These are great videos. Well done. 👍

[@andrew_koala2974]

NO - The cadence of the presentation needs to slow down - so the listener does not have to be hyper-focused on what is being said. Amateurs have a mouth like a rattle gun - and fail to learn from skilled orators.

[@mtm4a]

@@andrew_koala2974 - Thank you Andrew. I have been reluctant to make any comment about the speed of the commentary because all those making comments on this channel exclusively praise the presentation, for many good reasons. One small example here was my inability to clearly identify the name of the alternative airport to Vienna and Zagreb. Through a bit of research, I have concluded that it was *Graz* in Austria. Did anyone hear that clearly first time around, even though the name was repeated two or three times in the commentary?! I know it's perhaps an insignificant point, but a place name in these circumstances still matters!

[@philippgabler5835]

I live near Graz and every time I heard about that flight I always wondered why they didn't land here in Graz. Now I have an idea! Thanks for your videos!

[@ozangokceo]

I am really looking forward to an Aircrash Investigation episode dedicated to this! It's a really interesting case. Edit: How did you nail that final resting position? It's pretty impressive.

[@ahsanrahib9958]

Lol he tried so hard to not bring any bad press ended up destroying a plane

[@CocoaBeachLiving]

This is why I never completed my efforts to being a commercial pilot. I could very well have been like this Captain.. Better to know your limits.. Lol

[@asktari610]

Lol same.I could never be a pilot

[@jack002tuber]

Train for every possible situation and then just calmly fly. 😄 Like the one who put it down in the Hudson, Sully. (I'm not a pilot, so there's that 🤣🤣)

[@indahooddererste]

@@jack002tuber and even him lost topics on the checklist. we all just are humans.

[@alphalunamare]

It makes you wonder if young pilots should not be teamed with old pilots ... that way at least you get a balance of respect in the communication twixt the pair.

[@fluffy-fluffy5996]

Should be based on flying hours/experience. Never team up two newbies, that is at least a recommended outcome from a crash but if it is actually being executed? Dunno. 🤷‍♀️

[@cynthiadavid5282]

He made poor choices on this plane he shoud have turned back sad the tragic happend

[@gaiaiulia]

@@cynthiadavid5282 he couldn't turn back to Heraklion. The fuel load was too heavy for landing. He should have landed at an airport about halfway

[@pauljordan4452]

Thus, pilots are like oxen.

[@selftrue670]

The cause of this crash is pilot error, not the gear down, not anything else. Nothing that failed on that aircraft was a risk to flight. When the un-retractible gear issue first emerged, landing soon became priority one. Not corporate convenience, not get-there-itis,

[@davidtrice8307]

i found your channel few days ago. watching these videos makes u realise how much it takes to fly a plain and problem solve when things go wrong brilliant channel

[@andrewthomson]

Thank you

[@LateNightCigars]

This feels like an episode of The Simpsons where Homer was the pilot.

[@Gregorius421]

Talk about get-there-itis... 12:00 power slide. "The aircraft has just about made it to Vienna"

[@adithyakaravadi8170]

This is my fav flight channel now, no BS.

[@XiaoChaCha]

What a motivating story. If you are determined to reach your destination, you will evetually get there, even though in pieces.

[@petervandolah5322]

Don't let that Captain off the hook ... He blew it with his inflexibility and arrogance ... The FO would make a great Captain ... Great videos !

[@javasrevenge7121]

Agreed.

[@troodon1096]

To be fair, he wasn't let off the hook. He spent 6 months in jail and lost his flight license.

[@bluedistortions]

Agreed, to show you how bad it was, all he had to do was maintain cruising altitude a bit longer than normal at a reduced speed, even if only once the low fuel warning sounded, and he would have made it. But he didn't do even that, he just acted like this was a normal landing, because he didn't want to do anything that was out of the ordinary to avoid some perceived professional embarrassment.

[@rilmar2137]

The pilot's top priority should always be the safety. Also, I thought that since Tenerife the PICs have been required to hear out their crewmates' suggestions?

[@Bamboule05]

Oh they can hear them out, but it's still de decision of the captain what to do

[@Ztbmrc1]

I think the most logical thing to do was to return to Crete (Hiraklion?) when they encountered the problem with the gear after take off. We do not know for sure but it seems as if they were urged by the airlines ops to proceed to an airport with the airlines maintenance facility. But even then, there were so many chances to land safely and avoid this crash...

[@Amanda-C.]

Turning around would have prevented the issue, but I don't think it would've been appriopriate. They had a reasonable and well-founded belief that they could land safely, if perhaps a little short of their destination. It wasn't even incorrect in the broad strokes. The issue was that they failed to take appropriate action when it became undeniable that they were in an emergency, partly because they didn't have sufficient training and available information to identify the emergency earlier. I understand how the captain felt (I've fallen victim to plan continuation bias and expected utility bias myself, not to mention the likely financial pressure), but we can't excuse his poor decision making near the end of the flight. But when it was just getting started? Not every unusual situation is an emergency, and, even if it were, not every emergency requires you to turn around.

[@gcorriveau6864]

Deciding to divert to a base where maintenance is available and passengers' ongoing flights can be arranged is a very reasonable choice. It may also avoid having to make an 'over-weight' landing (airliners are certified to take off at heavier weights than they are certified to land at). In this case, however, the captain seemed to be very under-trained and unaware of the drag vs. fuel consumption realities!

[@Ztbmrc1]

@@gcorriveau6864 But safety should always be first, and than company and or passenger conveniences. And in case of overweight you can always either release fuel, or fly some time in a holding pattern to loose fuel to get under the max landing weight.

[@crazymonkeyVII]

@@Ztbmrc1 That's true, but it makes no sense to do that. It's perfectly alright to get the airplane closer towards the destination, as long as you make sure not to run out of fuel! It's a far better option than flying a perfectly controllable airplane in a holding pattern for hours or dumping the fuel into the environment for no reason. A stuck landing gear is simply not that much of a deal!

[@sleazymeezy]

@@gcorriveau6864 bro, he had 24000 hours flight time iirc

[@big_man_ank1768]

as always awesome quality

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you! Glad you're enjoying it.

[@hanswurst4463]

I find this crash very interesting because my Teacher and his family was part of the passengers and he told us so many things about it

[@BjorgenEatinger]

And then?

[@miniena7774]

Such as?

[@Big_Tex]

Say what?

[@BjorgenEatinger]

@@Big_Tex Right?

[@232K7]

Fascinating

[@matthewhoverd471]

It must just be me, but this airlines name sounds a lot like 'Happy Glide'! Quite ironic!

[@jekanyika]

I find it strange that they are allowed to continue the flight as normal with the gear extended.

[@anadubar4819]

It happens regularly and planes just continue their flight. It is much worse when the landing gear cannot be extended - that makes for a crash landing. This is what my friend, who works at the airport, told me.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

I don't know about strange... The gear DOES reduce the speed they can go, and by rote, also the altitude they can fly to some degree. It's definitely NOT 'just like normal" to fly like that... BUT frequently on take-off, there's so much fuel on board that the plane is legitimately too heavy to land safely... SO turning right around to land may not have been an option... If there's no emergency (and gear-stuck down is NOT an emergency) then there's no good to come from creating an emergency by being too anxious to get back to the ground too early. The options then are to take a holding pattern long enough to dump fuel sufficient for a safe landing and go back... OR divert to some mid-way point where the fuel can be burned in progress for airline and passengers and then face the details of trying to fix the issue or getting refueled with intent to get to a place where it CAN be fixed... The truly weird part is how reluctant the Captain was to try ANY alternative at all... AND even once he chose an alternative (Vienna) he set himself up for failure by continuing the narrow minded demands of his craft... instead of simply diverting to THE nearest suitable airport as soon as he figured out they couldn't reach Munich. He gambled on reaching Vienna (as far as he could possibly fly) with the lives of his passengers and crew. ;o)

[@charleskennedy1712]

Low time FO seemed much more switched on than Hapag-Lloyd’s highest time captain

[@rfvtgbzhn]

7:51 I think the commercial pressure is a point that should be included in all videos where time pressure on pilots is mentioned (which are a lot from the ones I have already seen). In capitalism corporations always put profits over safety. They actually only increase safety if that is required by law or reduces their costs (for liabilities and/or insurance) enough.

[@citizensnips3850]

Don't say "capitalism" as if places like China and Soviet Russia haven't had dozens and dozens of horrendous accidents

[@rfvtgbzhn]

@@citizensnips3850 China is capitalist since about 30 years and you can't compare aviation of 1917-1991 with today. There where generally more accidents back then.

[@rfvtgbzhn]

@@citizensnips3850 also from what I know there was an increase of aviation accidents in Russia in the 90s, after the transistion to capitalism.

[@citizensnips3850]

@rfvtgbzhn Lmao China the country that recently (as in 2015 recently) had laws on how many children you can have and a nation with a social credit score where being disliked by the government costs you your rights is DEFINITELY a capitalist Nation. Totally no cap there at all lmao

[@citizensnips3850]

@rfvtgbzhn There was countles Soviet Union crashes that were never documented and were swept under the rug. Considering their checkered past with covering things and how many soviet plane crashes that they tried to cover up but couldn't.

[@edsonherald3720]

In other words, more than 20 thousand hours of flight were not enough to listen to the Co-Pilot's suggestions that, in fact, were correct and would have avoided this accident. Typical case of "Power Distance" ! No wonder, CRM (Crew/Corporate Research Management) remains the key to minimizing the possibility of idiocy like this pilot in command.

[@adamwallace0929]

Brilliant video, quickly becoming my favourite aviation accident channel

[@Taketimeout3]

I have difficulty believing it is permissible to fly an airliner with passengers on board with the gear down. The strain and stress on the gear and much higher fuel burn makes it imperative to land immediately. I guess I am always learning Good upload.

[@abigaileggleston9108]

"Luckily, there was no fuel left to start a fire" 😮

[@AaronHarberg]

Very interesting, the A310 was a nice looking plane. The Captain had a case of get there itis.

[@tommcglone2867]

Yes. A very serious chronic case of Get-There-Itis.

[@Soulkatyoga8]

I’m sure most of you did this same thing: as soon as I knew the landing gear was down, my first thought was welp the LG is down so drag will cause the plane to use fuel faster as the plane had drag. Very interesting segment. 👍🏻😺

[@stevencooke6451]

Exemplary production again. These videos explain so much without overloading the brain.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Glad you appreciate it! ❤️

[@samsungtab1064]

found your channel at 7k subscribers and been subscribed since! Your vids never cease to amaze me, keep it up☺

[@brianjones3191]

I’ve watched several of these, and am now terrified I will be on one of the flights where things go wrong.

[@trevorjoneill707]

or get a foolish captain

[@gilbertfranklin1537]

The single most glaring and stupid thing the captain did was not agreeing to land at one of the two nearer airports, which it seems were definitely reachable. Surely he must now realize that and is having trouble sleeping at night! 🙄

[@mark9294]

We got to give him his due. He did bring all the passengers back to ground safely. With qualifications. I do think he can sleep at night

[@BrettonFerguson]

640 meters. If they had a few more seconds of fuel we would likely have never heard of this incident.

[@grundged]

Terrible captain. 🤦‍♂️

[@bayouflier6641]

Excellent video. I do, however, disagree that lowering any degree of flaps would have gotten them to the runway. The extra drag inherent with flap extension would have accomplished quite the opposite.

[@Harald-MacGerhard]

Again, fantastic storytelling, love it 😊 Keep up the good work 😎

[@bigal3940]

Great mini investigation. Thanks for sharing @GreenDotAviation

[@bobamoto]

Very nice underrated channel, keep on.

[@johnmartinelli5511]

Pilots are gamblers, risk takers......the "it won't happen to me" attitude is not one to be used on a life and death situation, and having a chance to set the plane down should have been taken advantage of!! I can only LMAO 🤣😂.

[@Redeemed_marine_69]

Our poor German captain thought the airplane would have at least as much engineering as a German car. 😂 Honestly I can’t say I blame him too badly. Pretty wack German cars have better fuel calculations than a god damn airliner. Still should have recognised what a piece of crap it actually was.

[@thelazyalgorithm8164]

There is just enough room for a Captain, 1st officer and 2nd officer within a cockpit. There is no room however for egos or errors.

[@dontatmebaron]

Just a few moths ago in 2023 A320 crew in Russia made seemingly the exact same mistake during their diversion to the alternate and made a forced landing in a random field halfway. This was Ural Airlines Flight 1383

[@thatguy_nick2937]

Another happy landing!

[@chris99997]

This is classic poor airmanship. Despite what the computer said, all they needed to do was estimate how long it would take to fly the required distance at present speed, and compare fuel on board to fuel flow. That's easy mental math that pilots know how to do.

[@sludge4125]

Just land at the closest airport. My goodness! Don’t wait.

[@steffengerlach8395]

Exactly. All they had needed to do inflight was to use their raw data to roughly calculate or even estimate how long they could make it with their current fuel burn which is well being displayed as fuel flow on the instruments. Should be done during any flight on a regular basis anyway, to double check the computers. That is what these indications are there for... Shockingly poor performance.😳 Honestly it would have been my very first idea to check the actual fuel burn when flying with gear extended and estimate how long it will take to burn the tanks empty instead of fiddling around with the FMC on an unclear basis. And then decide on basis of the rule safety first instead of economics first with a good plus of extra for saftey...

[@A423-f9o]

You are absolutely right. And exactly that was written in the final report of the investigators.

[@inse001]

The computer is always right!

[@hiscifi2986]

@@steffengerlach8395 There are some gotchas in using rate of fuel burn... It all depends upon the stage of flight that you take the measurements... During the climb, the rate is very high, and during the descent, it can be almost zero. Even when cruising, the cruise speed can alter the fuel burn. Headwinds will also corrupt your calculations of how much range you have left. There are two well known airspeeds for maximum performance, one gives the maximum range, and the other slightly slower speed , give the maximum duration time.

[@ttgeopol1289]

Chancellor Scholz has the same frame of mind of this German pilot.

[@RatPfink66]

as the son and grandson of inflexible German-American males, i would like to say: THE HELL WITH YOUR PLAN!! GET THIS THING DOWN _NOW,_ IF NOT SOONER!!!

[@johncantwell8216]

Two-crew airliners had been in use for some time, including the Douglas DC-9 (1965), and the Boeing 737-100 (1967), so the Airbus A310 was not one of the first.

[@locklear308]

Still confused as to why they do not have backup batteries for electronics

[@joelhenderson4450]

The fuel gauge is the most important gauge in my car. I realize pilots have a lot to pay attention to, but how is the fuel gauge not in the top three?

[@eko4749]

Idk man speedometer seems pretty important.

[@JoeEvermore]

Seems with so many incidences the first fact mentioned is the large number of flying hours the pilots have and the inference that their experience is an asset to their plight. It seems that after flying for so many hours they become complacent . Younger less experienced pilots don’t exhibit such arrogance/complacency as in the case of the first officer on this flight. Just my observation. I’m sure many experienced pilots don’t fall into this trap.

[@user-mt4ku7jw1y]

This captain alarmingly behaved shockingly and with that kind of attitude shouldnt be allowed near a plane ever again.

[@Chris-hf2sl]

I'm not into aviation except as a passenger, but I'm an electronic engineer and computer programmer. I've now watched several of these videos and the common theme that always surprises me is the amount of effort that seems to be required to set up the flight computer. In several of these videos, the pilot, when in difficulty would rather not divert to a different airport because of the work involved in changing the information in the flight computer. Why is it so hard to do this? The aircraft already knows the essential parameters such as the amount of fuel left, the current location, the cargo / passenger weight etc. So surely, the software should be able to switch to a different destination upon receiving nothing more than the name of the destination. A modern passenger jet should surely have all the necessary information about the various airports already built in. Even my 10 year old car has a sat-nav that can take me to any hotel anywhere in the UK and throughout most of Europe. I understand that airports are much more complicated than hotels, but the point is there are far fewer of them and all of them have runways etc. that don't move about or change length etc. Also a system needs to be developed to enable Air Traffic Control to send height, bearing and other instruction straight to the flight computer instead of verbally to the pilot. This would eliminate language and pilot stress problems. (I'm not suggesting that ATC controls the aircraft, but that the requested instructions are presented on a screen for the pilot to review and if he's happy with them he presses an accept button, whereupon the flight computer / autopilot does what's necessary. Even without that last step, a written instruction from ATC would be a considerable advantage over a verbal instruction.

[@SlavaUkraini85]

The quality of your videos is phenomenal!

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you! 🙏🏼

[@superconnie5003]

There was an Indo 737 that ditched in a river before this and Scully.

[@Williamb612]

absolutely! Everything else was a domino effect from that single bad call. The captain is 💯 culpable for this…I hope he was fired.

[@davidf6326]

Well there's their first problem - there were no pilots on board! 😁 (0:49)

[@dh510]

Tbh, the computer not using the current rate of fuel consumption for its calculations in any way seems like a tremendous oversight to me, at least from the modern day perspective... Nowadays, I would assume that any FMC would automatically register that the gear is down and have the corresponding look-up-charts available to recalculate everything on the fly..

[@adherry8142]

Wer den Tod nicht scheut, der fliegt Hapag-Lloyd (German turn of phrase)

[@RatPfink66]

"Who does not fear death flies Hapag-Lloyd"

[@patricktuggles4815]

This captain was a real company man lol

[@Z3NYBOY]

You were very critical in this video - and I am fully with you on that. He should have turned around or landed straight away. Thanks for another fantastic video.

[@adamc27]

"The aircraft had just about made it to Vienna" 😂

[@jude_the_apostle]

I don't get why they felt the need to minimize the commercial damage for the airline. All that was needed was a top-up at another airport regardless of destination. Zagreb or Munich, both the jet would have just taken off again bound for Hanover?

[@anadubar4819]

There are fees for landing and take-off, and they are different for each airport. There are cheap and expensive airports.

[@chrisg9627]

Gear locked down, you go to the graphs ... not the FMS. easy to say in hindsight, but thats the way on my aircraft, and it is extremely limiting, this is a ferry flight only procedure. with no pax. A landing back at the airport of origin is absolutely required in my FCOM.

[@patmx5]

How does a 20k+ hour pilot not realize that having the wheels hanging out in the breeze is going to hugely increase drag and as a result, his fuel consumption? And then once he'd decided to proceed with the flight, to not be EXTRA vigilant with the fuel consumption and have alarm bells going off in his head when the amount was dropping much faster than anticipated. Yeah, we've used more than 60% less than halfway through the flight. It was the climb - yeah, that's it - the climb! The only time you should really trust the fuel gauge is if it says you have less than you think you should. Mind blowing, and miraculous that no one was seriously injured or killed.

[@DBR00]

Great video, Mr. Green Dot! Hope you have a nice day! I enjoyed watching.

[@andrewcruz1931]

Corporations value time and money over safety .

[@Dilley_G45]

A couple things. A 310 was not one of the first 2-man cockpits. B 737, DC-9 and others were there. A310 wasn't a marvel just an average plane. It wasn't replaced by the A330. Rather by modern A320 versions etc. A330 is bigger.

[@part6133]

Land recovery switch could have made the captain a hero== saves the plane, people and arrives at destination.!!

[@Butterproductionsreal]

If I am totally honest, I think it was %50 the maintenance crew’s fault because they didn’t install a part of the plane right, %25 the airlines fault for taking off a part of the checklist, and %25 the pilot’s fault because he believed the flight computer and denied all of the first officer’s suggestions

[@Miki99432]

I know it's weird but these videos are so relaxing for me. I assume because of his voice and the way he present it, however I learned so much from these videos that I could potentially try to land a plane if both pilots die. I know I would most likely fail but I know a lot about how planes work since i start watching this channel :)

[@kotsaris87]

00:15 Crete is not a "small island". It has a population of 650 thousand and 8500 sq km size

[@troodon1096]

That makes it smaller than quite a few populated islands. Everything is relative.

[@godlessblessings7020]

Thanks!

[@MrEsMysteriesMagicks]

Does anyone know what discipline the PIC may have received? The FO's behavior may have been "exemplary," but he did omit a critical checklist or at least remember to turn on the emergency flaps and slats switch.

[@se-kmg355]

From Wiki: Hapag-Lloyd reported that the Captain Wolfgang Arminger voluntarily left the airline six months after the incident. In 2004, a Hannover district court convicted Captain Arminger of "dangerous interference in the air traffic," saying he was "endangering others' lives" mainly by failing to divert to Zagreb, and gave him a six-month suspended prison sentence. The conviction was criticized by German court reporter Gisela Friedrichsen who thought the two court sessions of the main trial were not enough to present and evaluate all evidence.

[@anadubar4819]

He lost his pilot's licence and got six months prison (on parole).

[@sirfanatical8763]

I think the captain was a bit of a psychopath

[@alexhoe02]

Do you have any plans to work on Pulkovo 612? If so I would love to give you all the details I have about the accident

[@GreenDotAviation]

Yes I'll be covering this at some point. Feel free to email me any details you have at [e-mail] :)

[@alexhoe02]

@@GreenDotAviation ❤️❤️❤️

[@renoholland7090]

Great video. Thank you.