This plane crash was 40 YEARS in the making | Crossair flight 3597

[@GreenDotAviation]

☕If you're feeling generous, support my work by buying me a coffee! www.buymeacoffee.com/GreenDot

[@ronniewall492]

BESSIE COLEMAN FIRST AFRICAN FEMALE PILOT DIED IN A SUSPECT SITUATION.

[@fuckyoutubengoogle2]

Think you could produce a vid on United Flight 553?

[@BPFACTS88]

brew your own coffee at home and save hundreds per year

[@glamdolly30]

@@BPFACTS88 Cheeky!

[@RedCoalsSweatSouls]

Scraping broke at the memento, but very much appreciate your content tone and cadence, and hoping someone drops a year of coffee on you:) Cheers Brother~

[@cefarix]

I had heard of the gear-up incident and the almost-landed-in-italy incident but didn't know it was by the same captain!

[@NicolaW72]

Yes, it was. And at that time many people thought this incident were "funny".

[@jupiterzombies]

@@NicolaW72 since no one was hurt and probably assumed he'd been fired! : (

[@NicolaW72]

@@jupiterzombies Probably. Looking and judging backwards is always easy. But nevertheless: If a Crash happens with several Fatalities and the Pilot mostly responsible for it had such a Past the Question is allowed: What was wrong with that Airline?

[@Ward1706]

Wasn't the first thing he knew about it was when his passengers saw signs in Italian?

[@NicolaW72]

@@Ward1706 Yes.

[@sammy9062]

Wow! 13:50 - Unbelievable ... he almost forced a landing at not only the wrong airport, but in the wrong country!

[@furqanrazafrk6336]

😭😭😭😂😂😂

[@anmolshah6838]

The captain in training showing the FO that retracting the landing gear while on the ground wouldn't retract the landing gear was the funniest thing I've ever seen. This man is a bad pilot but a comedy goldmine

[@raven_1133]

Imagine this: “See, it won’t re-“ *thud* “*sigh* Zurich Tower, this is Crossair 3597, our gear is up. Can we get some forklifts over here?”

[@NicolaW72]

I can remember that people at that time thought this would be "funny" and made jokes about this Captain. Nobody saw the serious danger caused by the fact that this man was flying as Pilot-in-Command commercial aircrafts with passengers on board. The "fun" quickly disappeared after this crash.

[@karjalatakaisin]

@@NicolaW72 sure, but it is a funny story out of the context

[@NicolaW72]

@@karjalatakaisin Yes, indeed. At that time the story made its way into the comedy shows.

[@karjalatakaisin]

@@Capecodham First officer

[@markallison4794]

This came up in my recommendations, and I thought "do I really need to follow another aviation channel?" Watched anyway, and yes, I do. Subscribed.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Welcome! 😎

[@egilsaerman8769]

I'm being trained by a lot of old Saab people, and this pilot is a bit "infamous" here, especially the gear incident, which was the first Saab 340 hull loss

[@NicolaW72]

Yes, I remember that he became a sort of a TV VIP at that time - and stayed unfortunately as Captain and Pilot-in-Command.

[@rawexplorer8373]

I had a laughing seizure literally😂 wish I could see that

[@c208driver6]

How does a pilot accumulate 20k hrs and still make this kind of mistake. All they had to do was literally look down and check the DME. Unbelievable

[@rawexplorer8373]

Its insane that after everything that happened the captain was still a friggin captain. I would be terrified to fly with him

[@ukraine7249]

I flew with him. He is a good bloke

[@alexm5764]

@@ukraine7249 Yeah but being a good bloke doesn't make you a good captain...

[@tgoodjenkins]

​@@alexm5764true, also someone with downs syndrome can be a good bloke.

[@nicadair7700]

Profit before safety...

[@The_Voyager_ch]

I still remember this really well when I was living and growing up in Switzerland. My dad was supposed to be on this flight from Berlin but was running late due to a Meeting, so he opted to take an early flight out the next day instead. My mum and I were, at the same time, very excited to see Melanie Thornton live a few days later on a charity concert with her christmas song she released... Well, we never saw the concert, but at least I could see my dad. He still has the boarding pass to this flight at home to this date and is happy he did not make it after all... What Crossair did back in the day was crazy, and thinking about how much we flew them back in the day (especially after the bankrupt of Swissair and with their codeshare flights) my dad to this day has crazy stories to tell of some weird incidents on his business flights. Just absolutely crazy!

[@GreenDotAviation]

How spooky - both your Dad and you and your Mom have ties to this flight. Sounds like your Dad was very lucky indeed. I'd love to hear some of those stories!

[@NicolaW72]

Thank you very much for sharing your experience! I still must think to Melanie Thornton and this crash whenever I hear a Christmas Song. It´s so sad. RIP.

[@antraneenas2343]

@@GreenDotAviation my mums friend survived she was a part of the passion fruit band on the flight. Only survivor in the band

[@antraneenas2343]

Wow. My mums friend wasn’t late to the flight and was actually on it. Luckily she survived but she was part of a musical band called passion fruit. She was the only survivor of the band

[@KlaxontheImpailr]

Maybe you could make it into a video series, if you haven’t already.

[@Dakiraun]

That is really astonishing that such a captain could just keep on flying. Really _tragic_ that so many people had to lose their lives to finally put a spotlight on it. :(

[@GreenDotAviation]

Absolutely. Crossair was a mess of an airline.

[@dfuher968]

Yes, I have always found it both mindboggling and horrifying, that they took a "below average" pilot with a long string of failures and bad incidents and not only made him a captain, but also a friggin flight instructor, when he was such a piss poor pilot, he barely passed the minimum requirements himself. Clearly, the minimum requirements should be higher, and no1 should be able to make captain, let alone flight instructor, if ranked below average. And yeah, administration at the airline was godawful. Not surprising, that their poor management and many incidents and crashes finally led to them folding and the remains being incorporated into Swissair.

[@Dakiraun]

@@dfuher968 Yeah, no kidding. The scary thing to take away from that though is just how many pilots, trained by that guy, are still out there flying? And are any of them a potential problem waiting to happen as a result?

[@Commentator541]

Many of them are still out there. Especially on the regional carriers.

[@NicolaW72]

Yes, indeed.

[@darth3261]

An inspiring story of perseverance from the Captain, fulfill your dreams or die trying, never give up. What a champion.

[@squ1dd13]

lmao

[@the-red-ghost]

I'm having a feeling that he had an issue effecting his performance or he just wasn't trying hard if all of these pilots can fly an airplane I think he could

[@beatlemyn]

It’s unbelievable that the airline allowed him to keep flying. Totally preventable accident. Sad.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed.

[@josephburton92]

To be honest. I’m not trying to be funny. But if this captain could become a professional pilot. I know that I can. This just gave me a big boost of confidence.

[@bigdoggo5827]

It seems that it's always that way. That guy is incompetent, I'm sure I'll do it better it's something I think about too. But it looks like complacency is key to almost every incident

[@OneRedKraken]

Another great example of failing upwards.

[@NoBootyBeauty]

100 students in medical school. What do they call the person who graduates first place? Doctor. And what do they call the guy who graduates last place? Doctor. Just saying!

[@micfail2]

@NoBootyBeauty If they just graduated medical school they are not doctors they are just physicians. They don't become actual doctors until they are given their PHD, which most physicians never get.

[@ijj2286]

Felt bad to the co-pilot. He had the potential to be a great pilot and surpass Capt. Lutz.

[@jupiterzombies]

yes! he clearly had doubts, but this captain sounds like a piece of work to communicate concerns to as well, if his incompetence wasnt enough...

[@alicedelarge]

I'm scared of flying yet I think even I could surpass that guy.

[@pop5678eye]

The scary thing about an incompetent captain allowed to fly until they crash is the thought how many other incompetent captains were also allowed to fly and just got lucky. Thinking that if you get rid of just one problem person will prevent the problem from recurring is dangerous. The system should never allow such problem from arising again in the first place.

[@uschurch]

As a Swiss I have to say that my country seems to have a tradition of a cavalier attitude to aviation safety, including the federal office for civil aviation. The crash of Junkers JU-52 HB-HOT on 2022-08-04 shows that at best superficial improvements have been made since 2001.

[@reyjusuf]

You have an excellent rail system though

[@Yusuf-cx6ov]

Thanks for sharing

[@GeneBurrell]

I prefer flying under my own power (paper model)

[@Emilien-hy3sy]

​@@reyjusuf Yes, but some people still think it's smart to emit tons of co2 and make a 200km flight inside our tiny country while we have a fantastic rail system... Gotta love capitalism...

[@devin8967]

my mom who's a flight attendant met one of the survivors of this crash while working. they had a good conversation, but my mom had to quickly reseat another passenger (who was flying for the first time and absolutely terrified) becore they both met lol

[@tookitogo]

I used to work for one of the survivors. (The one who is now a well-known politician.)

[@turricanedtc3764]

I think it's important to consider an aspect which was alluded to in the Mayday/ACI episode concerning this accident - namely the business challenges faced by airlines which are expanding rapidly and the impact of those challenges on safety. A rapidly expanding airline has to have sufficient flight crew to cover a constantly increasing number of flights and routes, and the inherent danger there is that commercial pressures and staff turnover mean that pilots with dubious training evaluations and safety records (such as Capt. Lutz in this case) tend to "fall through the cracks". As the video states, Crossair's chief pilot at the time of the accident was unaware of Lutz's deficiencies and Lutz's First Officer at the time of the major navigation error either did not report it to the company or any report made was lost by the (likely overburdened) administrative structure in place. Quite a few commenters are asking how Lutz passed his command upgrade in the first place, and the likely answer there is that he was fortunate to have performed satisfactorily (significantly better than usual) during that specific period, and the airline's need for Captains at that time meant that his performance was treated as an indication of consistent improvement rather than a fluke. This state of affairs has occurred several times across global aviation in rapidly-growing markets; the case of TransAsia Flight 235 was another clear example of an airline's rapid growth leading to a pilot with a sketchy safety history being given command when they should not have been.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed.

[@uzaiyaro]

I’m amazed that any pilot could have ever performed a Homer. I thought raising the landing gear on the ground was somehow impossible.

[@OwlRTA]

lmao

[@uzaiyaro]

@@OwlRTA im glad someone gets the, admittedly now somewhat obtuse, reference. But for real, I genuinely thought there would have been some sort of interlock, even a software one. The plane already knows if it’s on the ground or in the air, and has multiple sensors from which it derives this particular state. I understand that it’s generally not a bad thing to keep a pilot from doing something especially if the computer is going wonky, sure. But surely it’s not that difficult or limiting to the pilot’s authority such that when gear up is commanded whilst all weight-on-wheel switches agree that the aircraft is, indeed, on the bloody floor, for the plane to then tell the pilots “umm… u wot m8?”, but I guess that no engineer thought a pilot could be this stupid. But you know what they say about the world building a better idiot and all that jazz. P.S. Out of interest, there is a video where the weight-on-wheel switches were instrumental in a near fatal crash. It’s Smartlynx flight… I can’t remember, you’ll find it by searching “smartlynx crash”. I dunno if Three Greens here has done it, but the fellow behind Airspace provides really deep insight to the airbus A320s flight control logic, as he is a pilot of the A320, and it was this logic plus WoW sensors being interrogated by the flight control computers at literally and precisely the perfectly wrong time, which both caused and (kind of) did not cause this crash landing. IMO it’s the closest you’ll ever come to Schrödinger’s Crash. P.P.S. They have. Still, do check out the airspace video too. I love seeing multiple videos of the same incident by multiple people as to me, it’s a great way to learn as much as possible. Every one of these KZbin creators has to choose what to cut and what to leave in, so someone else may not have cut a certain piece of into out. I hope you don’t mind my shouting out another creator’s video, Mist3r Greens.

[@uditabhattacharya2824]

Landing gear is usually pinned while on ground but the brakes/pine would have been removed when the pilots were in the cockpit setting it up for takeoff

[@makromizer]

So did he, obviously... But unlike you (I assume) he was supposed to be a trained instructor for that model.

[@rfvtgbzhn]

Interesting, I have seen a documentary about this flight years ago but I am quite sure that it never mentioned that the captain had such a bad record. I really like how you can always learn new things from your videos.

[@lusolte]

I was a hotel receptionist at that evening in Switzerland. We were expecting Melanie Thornton and band to check in during this night, but they never did. Still remember this sad night.

[@tookitogo]

Oof, yeah. I remember a few years earlier (25 years and 2 weeks ago) when Swissair 111 crashed. I was living in Zurich, and when my clock radio turned on in the morning to wake me up for school, instead of the expected music, the radio was nonstop live coverage of the crash. It was also a bit eerie how a few days later, the obituaries for the flight crew were in the local paper (NZZ), since it was a Zurich-based crew.

[@axoman3041]

The auto-pilot also failed many exams but Crossair still allowed him to fly the plane...Sarcasm aside..This channel is great and the narrative is professionnal.

[@David..]

14:06 can’t help but get a chuckle at this.

[@BoJack_HorseFly85]

Here's a Dutch proverb for you.. "Gentle healers make stinking wounds." Sure, it would have been a rotten job to tell Lutz he just wasn't capable enough to be a commercial pilot. But it sure beats telling all those families one of your company-numpties finally made the error that killed their loved one(s). RIP

[@stevencooke6451]

It was reprehensible that Lutz was ever allowed to fly. I can't believe that Crossair wasn't buried with fines for a reckless corporate culture that was criminal.

[@gentuxable]

​@@stevencooke6451 Even if that doesn't excuse anything, Switzerland has a huge staff problem. It goes without saying that I've been working in multiple companies which were not that bad and had a good culture and good pay that simply were unable to fill skilled positions like IT engineers. Even if negligance is a crime, it takes a bit to cease operations because you simply have not enough people working for you... And Pilots are even more rare than that! A well trained pilot in Switzerland at the time had no problem flying with any airline he chose to and Crossair couldn't even come close to offer a good pay or a decent flight plan in direct comparison.

[@NicolaW72]

Yes, indeed.

[@NicolaW72]

@@stevencooke6451 In opposite they became the highly reputated Swiss, since 2005 (four years after this crash) part of the Lufthansa Group.

[@LunaticTheCat]

I'm glad I found your channel, the quality of your videos is exceptional. I can tell that you're well on your way towards becoming a successful channel/KZbinr as long as you maintain a consistent upload schedule. So far you're off to a great start!

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you! I like the username and pic, btw.

[@juk-hw5lv]

VOR/DME is actually a newer approach method than the ILS, as the VORs date from the 1960s, while ILS was approved as early as early 40s and was in common use by the end of WW2. VOR approaches are less precise, true, and have a higher workload, but they're not necessarily older. They just make use of no dedicated landing aids and employ already existing enroute beacons thereby reducing cost of creating an instriment procedure.

[@peteconrad2077]

The big issue is that ILS requires large areas if surveyed flat ground ti work. VOR doesn’t.

[@702Wolfi]

These people. They move right next to airports, approach and departure paths and then complain about the noise.

[@702Wolfi]

@Grassy Sands But it wasn't. I know that area very well.

[@jupiterzombies]

and what were they going to do, sell the house to someone else who would have the same problem? 🙄 dont be ridiculous. its up to regulators to make sure IF they accept to switch runways during certain hours, that it's up to date and safe. they didn't do that, but how is it the villagers' fault.

[@Nobilangelo]

You analyses are among the finest on KZbin. Excellent always. Thank you.

[@orionwesley]

Rest in peace, Melanie Thornton, other passengers and the Passion Fruits.

[@juliusnepos6013]

R.I.P

[@NicolaW72]

Yes. RIP. So sad.

[@mattesrocket]

I think often, I am sure that there are out there always a couple of very unreliable pilots who are "slipped" through the safety grid. It must be like this if you think how many thousands of pilots are flying around the globe. Some might have for example a psyche that can't cope with *real life* unexpected events (outside the simulator where you know that something will happen) or some few older guys may be just way too selfconfident or too much in a routine if they haven't experienced a really critical situation for decades. Some might have sudden health issues that began just shortly after the last health check but without they noticing themself. I am sure that some of these pilots are out there. Or some younger might get personal problems e.g. in family that they don't dare to say to someone as they can't afford to loos their jobs so they continue flying, although their personal troubles (if they can't cope with them) make them very unfocussed or depressive or aggressive. Who knows how often almost something happend what just nobody knows. The biggest risk is, that the pilots, humans, change during years of working and they might change towards beeing not suitable anymore *without indications that are on a checklist of doctors or trainers.*

[@barryroberts2196]

Very well done, great presentation. You must all be wondering, like me, how did this all happen & go unnoticed by the Company ? What was the legal out come of this accident. or did it never go to court ? Thanks very much..

[@NicolaW72]

The CEO and the COO were charged but acquited because the court found it proven that the management of the airline was not complicit at this crash. Crossair became Swiss and is since 2005 a highly reputated member of the Lufthansa Group.

[@tookitogo]

I have touched a piece of the wreckage of this aircraft. I used to work at a company whose CEO is a survivor of this crash, and she had a piece of the plane framed, which now hangs on the wall of the company conference room.

[@SMaamri78]

Well, it does seem odd that landing gear is able to retract while sitting on the ground (or at least so back then). But, that does seem to be a fact any captain would have known.

[@rsambrook]

Nice graphics but the cockpit is a BAE 146 and not the RJ100. I was flying the RJ100 from 2001 to 2003 and it was a CAT 3 EFIS (Electronic Flight Information System) and not dials. There isn’t a glide path for a VOR approach. You fly a vertical profile (usually 3%) to arrive at the minimum descent altitude (MDA), that you can see the runway and continue at the same vertical descent rate in a stabilised condition. If not, Go-Around and demand the ILS to runway 14. You did this with vertical speed selected as the descent mode (other aircraft may have a flight path angle FPA mode). There are lots of noise restrictions at airport’s especially at night which are overridden if the weather is not suitable or you have an emergency. Have done many approach’s to Zurich’s Rw28 at night and done one go-around at 300’ in a A320 (ordered by ATC as runway occupied). Never bust minimums and always empower your first officer to tell you when your fucking it up. The best equipment you have on board is the other crew members. Teams skills prevents accidents.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Great comment. And yes, the EFIS cockpit isn’t available for the sim I use, so I used the next closest thing.

[@NicolaW72]

It seems to be that the unfortunate FO Stefan Löhrer had a tremendous respect for the much older and much more experienced Captain who showed the whole flight the teacher and instructor to him - unfortunately too much respect. He was with his 400 something hours flight time a much better pilot than his Captain was ever in his whole lifetime.

[@karenreddy]

Is astounding that pilot, airplane and maintenance history aren't made available online, particularly when booking a ticket, given the severity of errors under the circumstances. It sure would keep airlines in check, if it were a requirement.

[@heavenchainslayingmoon]

Watching this before my next flight. I dont know if I can still trust the captain 🤣

[@GreenDotAviation]

You're really living up to your username!

[@EEE_MMM]

Sadly, incompetence in all levels of aviation immediately leads to enormous risks, much more so than in 99% of other fields of work. No matter if it's the pilots, instructors, ATC, maintenance crews of either airplanes or installations on the ground, manufacturers... If it goes wrong, it really really does go wrong.

[@MrRaddoslaw]

Watching Air Crash Inv's before a flight is a good fun :)

[@maesc2001]

Those pilots had not a professional attitude to their flying basically, as so often in these days in smaller commuter airlines. Crossair was one such, where CRM could still be improved on, giving the first officer more room to intervene in the chain of command as is the case today in modern Western and/or the likes of Emirates, Qatar etc. which are being flown at at least the same standards.

[@aviationworld4119]

😹😹😹

[@anthonyiuculano6002]

If I can make a suggestion... Swissair 111. Just found your channel and I love it.

[@nedcollier1495]

Hi GD, your posts are as always, very informative, providing a unique up close narrative supported by excellent graphics, stills and recreations of events, sequences and contributory factors. Your work deserves more recognition as a producer/editor/script writer. Thank you ...... Eamonn (Co. Kerry.)

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you Eamonn! Much appreciated :)

[@federicoprice2687]

Thank you for an excellent assessment of this tragic accident.

[@Emilien-hy3sy]

As a Swiss, the fact that this captain landed in Aoste instead of Sion is absolutely mind-boggling, I can't believe it's real!!!!!

[@cogitoergospud1]

Changing runways to accommodate people who don’t like noisy airplanes, yet who also decided to buy a house on the approach to an airport, is ridiculous.

[@jupiterzombies]

you think the village wasnt there BEFORE the airport was built? 🤣 cities and villages here in europe are very old. no one signed up to have jet airplanes fly low over their house at night. but its up to regulators to make sure if they accept using a different approach during those times, that the airport and runway are up to date. that's the mistake here.

[@SimonWallwork]

I've done this approach in an RJ-100. As originally drawn there was just one alt (7000?') before descent, and no intermediate check altitudes. It was changed after this accident, but we always tried to get to Zurich before they changed to 28. I've seen ice on that approach that would still your heart.

[@dereksteneman9657]

Love this channel! Been binging for a week! Well done. While I no longer actively fly (intend to soon) it is a great reminder of how accidents develop.

[@Hobbes4ever]

2001 was probably the worst year for civil aviation

[@badmonkey2222]

What boggles my mind is that any pilot even a captain one with a questionable past as this one still why was he not monitoring his instruments on approach in fog and low ceilings mainly his DME the most important of the approach instruments it's incomprehensible!?!?;

[@NicolaW72]

A very good question.

[@galady8632]

You are being logical. Obviously that wasn't a possibility for the inferior Captain. He couldn't question himself, that would require admitting he made a mistake. Classic narcissist.

[@badmonkey2222]

@@galady8632 As allot of pilots are, especially ones from developing countries they think they are better than everyone and have shitty attitudes seen it a thousand times.

[@NicolaW72]

@@galady8632 To try to answer the original question above: The Captain had shown severe incompetence especially in navigation and technical understanding of how his aircrafts works. So it wasn´t a surprise that he failed again especially in this matters. And unfortunately the First Officer was too young, unexperienced and shy to step in and save the flight. About the Captain´s personality, so to talk about Hans-Ulrich Lutz (that was his name): I tried to learn about his biography as much as possible. He wasn´t a narcissist in a classical sense. He was born into a very poor family in a very remote area of Switzerland, went only a few years onto the small village school and got most of his knowledge only via self-education and self-study. He had to work hard for long years in a couple of jobs to earn the money to make his pilot training and to get his pilot license. And when he got his pilot´s license he had to work for long years as a free lancer in difficult financial and social circumstances, always doing additional jobs to earn enough money for his small living. He was well in his fourties when he got his first real employment by Crossair and it was the fulfillment of his life dream when he became a Captain and even an Instructor at Crossair. To me it is plain clear that his employer fired him only as instructor but not as Captain not only because they needed pilots for their expansion (Crossair developed in that years from a small regional airline into what is today Swiss, the Flag Carrier of Switzerland and part of the Lufthansa Group). To me it´s obvious that his biography played a huge role in the decision-making-process of his employer after his first incidents. And with his background it was nearly impossible for him to recognize how dangerous his deficits and limits were in fact and to quit therefore his employment and profession as a pilot voluntarily. He spended too much into his dream to become and to be a pilot and with his age of 57 he was then to old to start a new life from his own. If you take a closer look onto his story then you get pity - probably similar as his employer - unfortunately for all the lifes he took with him while he was killing himself out of incompetency.

[@NicolaW72]

@@badmonkey2222 This pilot we´re talking about here came from SWITZERLAND, not from a developing country, and the airline we´re talking about was Crossair, now SWISS, not a bush airline from Africa!!! The name of the pilot was Hans-Ulrich Lutz, born in 1944, died in the crash in 2001.

[@apackwestbound5946]

I'm a U.S. Citizen and pilot, so I can't speak from personal experience but as difficult as it is to become a commercial pilot in Europe I am surprised that the Europeans did not terminate this individual's career after so many earlier failures. It seems to me that European pilots, in general, take aviation much more seriously than most U.S. pilots. That doesn't necessarily translate to being "better pilots" just more serious, methodical and formal. As an "airline instructor" this Captain destroying an airframe by intentionally selecting gear up on the ground to demonstrate a training point, that turned out to be in error for whatever reason, really stood out to me as a huge warning sign. Pity, that for noise abatement reasons, a crew this was forced to fly a non-precision approach at night in difficult weather conditions and pass up a perfectly functioning ILS. Of course, the crew needs to fly the non-precision approach according to standard procedures. They did themselves no favors here and paid the ultimate price. Unfortunately numerous hull losses and many deaths have been attributed to non-precision approaches. For good reason they are being replaced by RNAV-RNP approaches that provide both lateral and vertical guidance. Really nice job on the KZbin channel "Green Dot Aviation"!

[@Commentator541]

I think that has to do with geography as well as the dense aerospace handled by many countries. Midwest and South are for the most part just straight up flights, so it’s not so demanding to fly as Switzerland, Scotland or Norway for example with many peculiar geographical and, hence, navigational challenges.

[@louissikkema5399]

to this day, the usage of rwy28 at night (after 8pm local in the weekends or 9 pm on workdays) is one of the big bottlenecks of zurich airport. It now has an ILS but it has high minimas due to hills in the approach path and is not even standard ICAO CAT1 certified. It is often used in bad weather (winter fog descending in the evening) until some pilots goaround and only then the airport is allowed to use the fully CAT1-3 certified ILS14 (or most of the time the CAT1 ILS of rwy34 is used if the minima remain high enough for that approach)

[@gentuxable]

I'm not a pilot but I live and work in Zurich and I see sort of those problems in many companies here. I think there really is a big labor shortage problem in Switzerland and Crossair was a "bus company" comparatively, Swissair was the dream at the time and growing extremely fast creating a "sinkhole" for most good pilots leaving almost nothing to Crossair and a pilot trained in Switzerland with good performance (i.e. not Lutz) could easily work at whichever airline they like. Add the fact that 2000 there was no Schengen treaty yet that allowed to get staff easily from elsewhere and there we have a problem and even those that they pulled in weren't trained well enough (guess that's what happened when those get trained by Lutz-type instructors).

[@NicolaW72]

@@gentuxable The Schengen agreement was in enforcement since 1995 and Crossair hired a lot of Pilots from Eastern Europe at that time, two of them caused the crash one year earlier. But Crossair grew up very fast at that time and they had therefore a severe shortage of pilots. Not to forget, too: Lutz was a highly experienced pilot with nearly 20000 hours of flight time. So unfortunately he stayed in charge.

[@gentuxable]

@@NicolaW72 But Switzerland signed Schengen in 2004 a few years after Crossair has merged and disappeared. At the time it was even harder to find good people internationally and have them come to serve.

[@greymark420]

It astonishes me that an individual can time after time show a lack of competency and yet be allowed to fly, with the responsibility that comes with it.

[@mohamedkhamis6255]

Keep up the good work man, thanks for your videos

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you!

[@adamwallace0929]

I reckon If you keep the uploads up you will grow a very big channel, I prefer these videos to the other chap that does aviation disasters simulator to yourself. The only difference is he has many many videos. Keep going and you will be tip off the spear

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you! That’s the goal anyway.

[@bavarianaviationvideonews5870]

awesome channel m8, thats some quality content you provide. thanks for that . greetings and a happy new year

[@romanwiseman4778]

Your videos are top notch quality mate! Can't believe only 16.5k subs - you've earnt mine

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thanks! Hope you enjoy what’s to come

[@zzrandy7110]

Hi Your videos are of excellent quality thank you! And YES there is an accident I would VERY much life you to make a video of. It's the Avro Tudor crash at Llandow on 12 March 1950 carrying rugby fans from Ireland. The reason I'm so interested in this crash is because my father witnessed it, was one of the first to arrive at the crash site, and he witnessed some horrifying scenes which he continued to tell us kids about for years. It explains my fascination with aircraft disasters! PLEASE make this video I'd love to get your take on it 😃. Andy

[@westhavenor9513]

Not everyone gets to be an astronaut, but sometimes a real dud slips through.

[@bobbieratclif9519]

Excellent show that I did not know anything about.

[@EannaButler]

Great job, I hope the lessons learned here were internationally-binding and not specific to the Swiss authorities. Hope your channel grows, you do a great job👏 Up the Irish!

[@GreenDotAviation]

The final report contained plenty of broadly-applicable recommendations, though I'd wonder about the thoroughness of regulatory oversight in some countries today, even though it has improved in Switzerland. And thanks!

[@elliotoliver8679]

Excellent re-creation!

[@charliemo]

That Imbecile Captain is responsible for everyone that was injured and died that night. Among the dead was the beautiful Melanie Thornton, 🎤 Singer from 90’s EuroPop Band “La Bouche”. Whenever I’m in Zurich I always play the “La Bouche” song “ Sweet Dreams”. R.I.P Melanie. 🥲

[@NicolaW72]

Yes. RIP Melanie Thornton.

[@gora2497]

New subscriber here. just found your channel and found it astonishing. Keep up the good work!

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thanks and welcome!

[@jamescaley9942]

The "minimums" warning here is like a parking sensor on constant pitch.

[@stevensrocks798]

The fact a pilot can get a license even though they're assessed as being "below average," is legitimately terrifying.

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

Half of pilots will be below average

[@stevensrocks798]

@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 depends on what kind of average you take.

[@emilsinclair4190]

I don't think you know how averages work.

[@janTasita]

@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 Unless the average score is for everyone that takes the assessment, including the ones that fail.

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

@@janTasita you could take an average to manipulate the results in anyway that you want, but that’s not what the video was talking about.

[@HowToFixIT404]

love the bit when the captain says Oh shizar

[@cbuchner1]

chuckled at the Captain’s oh 💩 comment

[@cbuchner1]

the real oh 💩 moment was just before impact though…

[@NicolaW72]

@@cbuchner1 Yes.

[@roynichols5212]

Well some people, for lack of a better phrase, do not have the mental capacity to be able to fly an aircraft. Nothing against them, I wouldn't want to fly one, but that's me. Clearly he was not made for flying aircraft. It is sad that management could not see this and people had to pay for this with their lives.

[@markusackermann1961]

It is not just sad, it is a scandal. The policies and practices at this airline were absolutely below any standard. With a very high risk tolerance, not acceptable for any airline.

[@NicolaW72]

Yes, indeed.

[@davidwilkinson6949]

Excellent video very comprehensive

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thanks!

[@shaunbrowne5139]

Thank you for your informative and articulate presentations.

[@marcuswarfield9119]

This captain shouldn't never been flying at all.

[@FastColin]

I've been really enjoying your videos but oh my your channel is underrated! You'll be on 100k subs in no-time :) thank you for your videos

[@stephenbrock1231]

2001 seems like just a generally bad time to be on a plane

[@eggselent9814]

Or Swiss. Autumn of 2001 had 4 major disasters happen in Switzerland.

[@TheLesserWeevil]

I work in hospitality. If you can't figure out how to work the coffee machine, you get sacked. Apparently, if you can't work out how to fly a plane, you just get to try again.

[@darylstafford8366]

The singer from labouche was on the flight

[@jackm.9178]

Melanie Thornton. Rip. She was very talented.

[@thatoneannoyingtornadosire8755]

People had to die before anyone had the thought of "Should we be allowing this person to fly?" Even the captain himself should have seen his performance and stopped as it put himself and many other lives in danger and ultimately led to something completely avoidable.

[@StephenLuke]

RIP To the 24 passengers and crew of Crossair Flight 3597

[@emmahenry3995]

Holy crap! So this guy thought that retracting the landing gear on the ground wouldn't... Well retract. Then he nearly lands at the wrong airport, in the wrong country??? That guy shouldn't have been allowed to captain a bicycle let alone a plane! 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@Kazuya1008]

Unless you consider that the captain was a member of a powerful family that the airline could not defy, it is hard to understand why they continued to allow him to fly the aircraft. It's a nightmare indeed☠

[@a320trevor]

With record keeping most airline training departments hadn’t caught the computer record keeping age at the time. So monitoring performance was not so efficient, sometimes, the training could be outsourced to third parties and the leadership could change regularly not saying that happened in this case.

[@Blatsen]

Many employers view length of tenure as being a sign of competence, which is not always necessarily true. Having long tenure in a position may give one a greater time frame in which to learn and hone their skills, but that is only if the person is competent and is open to learning and honing their skills. Someone who is inherently incompetent will unfortunately usually remain that way. Also, when one attains a certain job title or job classification, they often get typecast as being competent in that job title or classification, which is also not always necessarily the case. For example, I once worked with an incompetent mortgage loan closer who was friends with the mortgage loan closing manager. The incompetent closer was promoted to mortgage loan closing supervisor, not on merit, but on favoritism based on their friendship with the manager. This incompetent supervisor was coddled and enabled in their position for years by the manager. The incompetent supervisor was eventually laid off and promptly hired as a manager at another mortgage company that liked that this person had previous mortgage leadership experience. This other company didn’t know or care that the incompetent supervisor was in fact incompetent, they only cared that this person had established leadership experience. This incompetent person then went on to enjoy a long career as an incompetent manager at their new company. Another example is an incompetent user acceptance tester (UAT) that I work with that I call Sleepy Face. This person is lazy and frequently and openly sleeps on the job, but they have established a long work history as a UAT, which makes them look impressive to employers looking for experience. Once this person gets hired at a new employer, the new employer sometimes catches on to the fact that they are lazy and eventually fires this person. I have coworkers who worked with the lazy UAT at previous employers and have related this to me. My current employer, for whatever reason, is oblivious to this lazy UAT’s slacker behavior and has allowed them to work for the company in this manner for 8 months now, which shows a gross failure of oversight on the part of this person’s supervisor. The lesson is that employers need to judge their employees on the basis of merit and not on length of tenure or on job titles previously or currently held.

[@dannicatzer305]

I'm a very nervous flier and I'm uneasy the entire time when on a plane but rationalize my fear away by thinking it's incredibly rare to die in a plane crash, it's safer than driving yet I watch a lot of these types of videos lol

[@echo-trip-1]

Try to always remind yourself that every moment of your life, there are planes taking off and landing constantly non-stop at every city's airport around the world. Do you know how many planes that is up in the sky at any given second of your life? And how often do you hear about one crashing?

[@swilleh_]

@@echo-trip-1 a crash in the car won't be lethal like in the plane.

[@timelwell7002]

I HAVE SIX QUESTIONS: QUESTION 1: Precisely WHY did Crossair employ this man as a pilot in the first place? QUESTION 2: Exactly WHY, given that this pilot was of below average ability, and that Crossair had decided to employ him anyway, was his performance NOT closely monitored? QUESTION 3: Given that Crossair HAD employed this pilot, AND an inexperienced co-pilot, why PRECISELY was there not an ongoing monitoring and training system in place for ALL their pilots? QUESTION 4: Given the fatal crash of ANOTHER Crossair flight only a short time before, then WHY, PRECISELY had not the aviation authorities not looked VERY CLOSELY at Crossair to see if their pilot training and professional development was in line with that which was expected within the aviation industry as a whole? QUESTION 5: WHY, PRECISELY was the airport allowed to GET AWAY with FAILING TO INVEST in the correct and up-to-date electronic glide slope technology for ALL of the runways at this airport? QUESTION 6: Have any INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS sought to ascertain if any BRIBES were paid to officials in order to to invest the correct technology, the correct pilot training, assessment and professional development, and abject failure to monitor all of the above points and questions? If not, then WHY NOT..?

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

Why precisely do you think anyone will answer your questions?

[@timelwell7002]

@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 I'm not demanding that anyone answer these questions. In fact, I'm not demanding anything, just asking the questions, and if anyone wants to reply, great, if they don't, then no problem. Have my questions offended you in some way? Your tone sounds antagonistic - but I have not said or asked anything designed to be antagonistic to anyone - except, perhaps, those who were willing to put the lives of others at risk for profit. Were you a shareholder of this company, perhaps? Is that why you seem so angry at me?

[@louissikkema5399]

I can answer you question 5: only a few weeks before it was decided on quite short notice, that this runway would have to be used at night. it is the shortest runway of the airport and normally only used for departures, so it never made sense to install an ILS. At that time it was already planned to install an ILS but untill you have done such an installation and all the required calibration and obstacle clearance paperwork it takes time that the airport didn't have. Even now, the approach isnt a fully certified ICAO CAT1 ILS approach, as the minimums are way higher than on normal ILS approaches due to the terrain on the approach

[@timelwell7002]

@@louissikkema5399 Thanks for the info. You clearly have some inside knowledge.

[@louissikkema5399]

@@timelwell7002 depends what you call inside knowledge, I'm just an aviation nerd but a lot of publications are publicly available

[@Caterind]

For those interested the crash happened in the forest by a town called bassersdorf. There’s also a memorial there you can visit.

[@noelmaher4633]

Was waiting for MD80, knew it was them, three attempts at take off to Marseilles..I was quiet young but thought this odd...1982...Was raining heavily, two attempts .at take off, third attempt "the noise" aeroplane was bouncing down runway.. Odd I remember it still..

[@PJay-wy5fx]

It's unbelievable how 'certain people' always fail upwards. Quite literally in this case, until he went down, taking 23 other lives with him. Smh.

[@CammyjOfficial]

The captain was just winging it and they never terminated him after all those incidents.

[@pikachu6031]

Excellent, but one thing of note: ALL Runways in normal latitudes are orientated to Magnetic North. (M). The printed numbers are the Magnetic Heading of the runway and are Always given as Separate Numbers! eg: Runway 14 is given or read as Runway 1,4 One, Four. And Not Runway 14 (fourteen). Runway 35 would be Runway 3,5. Three, Five. Not (thirty five)! All Runways in High latitudes are orientated towards True (T) North, as magnetic compasses don’t work at high latitudes!

[@brianevans4525]

Yes I would like to see about the crash in the new Orleans international Airport in Kenner Louisiana. Back in the late 80's or early 90's can't remember what year.

[@dennisblankenship5979]

Well it sounded like corporate failure the airline should have been held accountable for this man and they should have done a complete investigation in his background before letting him even get anywhere close to an airplane

[@mujtaballa3105]

Really like Your videos. The intro music is amazing

[@ZombieSazza]

There’s incompetence, and then there’s this guys level

[@GrubbJunker]

13:50 How is it possible to not know you're almost 50 km off an airport in an entirely different Country?

[@ukraine7249]

I was a passenger on this flight. Really scary stuff!

[@r.o.1330]

.....this guy sounds like the all star that put the commuter porp jet down in Clarence Center, NY. makes you think before you get on an airplane.

[@MalenkyGoblin]

The lead sing of La Bouche and all but one of the music trio Passion Fruit died in this crash. The sole survivor of the group now works as a social worker in the Netherlands.

[@johnpatrick1588]

He passed with "below average to average". Nothing but the best. Was it an affirmative action quota?

[@RichartEgli]

Crossair gets in Crosshair ...Sad story. I`m swiss and i remeber this day.

[@katferguson]

The lesson learned for this travesty was to not hire idiots.

[@topjet4433]

Fantastic videos and explanations, how about talking about AF447

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you, I’ll definitely be covering that at some point.

[@n.e.e.n.official6639]

😢 Melanie Thornton

[@chandrachurniyogi8394]

lack of crew resource management is quite evident here . . . back in 1995 - 1996 Cross Air (SWISS Air) should have acquired a fleet of 18 - 23 brand new BAE 146-300 regional airliner . . .

[@marktolner2922]

I vaguely recall that the Captain also had some prescription drugs in his possession/flight bag which it was thought may have impaired his decision making but I may be recalling incorrectly.

[@NicolaW72]

The Captain with the prescription drugs in his flight bag was the Captain of the other Crossair Flight which crashed one year earlier.

[@devious187]

It's truly amazing and frightening that the pilot wasn't fired immediately after the bit with the landing gear... The term too stupid to fly comes to mind. This guy would have probably checked to see if a gun was loaded or not by putting it to his head and pulling the trigger

[@RonPiggott]

Heartbreaking.

[@vans617]

they say avaiation is statistically the safest way to travel, but one thing they can never prevent is human error