This is How You Kill a Game

[@Lakanus]

People always point to a single thing and say "Yeah this is where Overwatch died" but this video showed that it was, well, *everything*

[@blaydee4982]

Holy fuck lakanus It has been eons

[@iwasd5066]

It was only blizzard fault, they had the best game and they Just let It rot.

[@lightflo]

@@iwasd5066 Blizzard fault ? Or Activision-Blizzard ? it's two different things, Jeff Kaplan was a "good guy" working at Blizzard but the costume guys with a tie that takes decisions at Activision - Blizzard are different ppl.

[@iwasd5066]

@@lightflo was blizzard fault, even Jeff fault, this game was dying way before all the accusation.

[@barrybarry8564]

I mean just look at it. It's just a clusterfk of everyone in the middle of the map spamming abilities and gunfire into the other bullet-sponge team. it's terrible haha.

[@stormr7159]

The general consensus about overwatch is: everyone loved Overwatch. Now, nobody even likes it. All devs going forward should see Overwatch as a case study in how to kill your own video game.

[@drvinylscratch1936]

Facts. I saw this coming from so early on with dev choices for balancing

[@Gawn]

there's still plenty of people that like and play it, it's just that the people who quit are vocal and say shit like "the game is dead" when it still has an active playerbase

[@pottyputter05]

@@Gawn ya, mostly this

[@thelastcat8406]

@@Gawn most people doesnt mean the game itself is dead , its a great game and too much to fun.. but every decision blizzard takes starting with the ow league is disgusting..

[@andreitabacaru8242]

Story of Blizzard

[@angrychickengod3831]

OW2 isn't even a sequel. It's just all the content we should have gotten in the past 2 years in one large package

[@Yasviele]

3 years... or four because ow2 ain't ready soon

[@thecoomchalice5441]

Well yeah. OW2 was literally made as a PR stunt to try and distract the public from the shit going on at Blizzard rn

[@angrychickengod3831]

@@thecoomchalice5441 OW2 was announced a year before all that

[@thecoomchalice5441]

@@angrychickengod3831 Ah yes. Silly me. They have been digging themselves so deep in with all these scandals I genuinely lost track at this point lol. It was still a PR stunt to distract people from whatever the scandal they had going on at the time was.

[@HarmonicVector]

60$ DLC... where have I heard that one before? *Darkness horn plays*

[@bahamutShin]

"Blizzard itself is to blame for the game's downfall" that's seems to be how every single game Blizzard is doing now days.

[@Astarath]

The downfall started when they were purchased by Vivendi and then the merge with Activision. I don't mean OW specifically, I mean Blizzard overall.

[@aster1760]

@@Astarath really we cant even equate it to that, even before Activision came along the cracks were already forming, at that time before they were bought out, the WoW community was already slowly hating the game as the expansions and attention to the lore was slipping, becoming lazier and less interesting over time, and at the time WoW was their only still heavily worked on IP, after Activision came the company saw some fresh creative blood, but eventually the creativity was bleed dry for money

[@ukroo5841]

@@aster1760 Activision killed WoW no questions asked. Paid char boosts, in game cosmetics only obtainable via purchase and adding a shop to buy gold. as someone who played the game before the merge and still right now it is night and day. As for creative blood, it has done nothing but beat the mmo aspect out the game by bringing in people who know little about the genre, makes you see why WoW classic is such getting more traction than retail.

[@aster1760]

@@ukroo5841 oh dont get me wrong as a long time player myself Activision put the cap in that horses head when they came along, but the horse already had typhoid before hand, the game was already starting to loose its spark by its later years and the Activision took whatever was even left and snuffed it out. WoW classic was fun as hell, tbh the last time I had any fun with it was maybe the cataclysm expansion and I'm being generous Affidavit:my words on fresh creative blood were not for WoW they got none of that lol, I more meant the company got fresh blood to start new projects in the company away from WoW but that fresh blood in time died out much like WoW itself

[@meowass1455]

Blizzard doesn't know how to make a good game nowadays, its just unwanted reskin service

[@Helios_8888]

I used to defend this game from being called a ‘dead game’ but now even I don’t play it anymore

[@Vezarri]

lol same

[@okok-fs4qe]

@Ninja Crackpot I remember playing paladins it was so fun

[@Fluskar]

LMAO same, i used to defend so many games like that but now i dont even play em

[@Viper_Mk.1]

@@okok-fs4qe I played since the first alpha or beta and got some cool skins but after they started nerfing and changing stuff I got bored and just left

[@khazms]

I've recently started playing it again, but it will get boring .. again. Because they're not doing anything new. There's no new hero, no new map, no new game mode, etc.

[@parsleyisthicc]

Playing Overwatch during 2016-2018 were the best times I've ever had playing a game in a long time. I've put in so many hours into this game and have a lot of great memories and met so many good people so it really hurts having to see this game get ruined because of Blizzard's incompetence.

[@janky477]

Same thing happened to LoL.

[@gurubivolaru5114]

@@janky477 yet LoL is still played by a large ammount of players and still has a large pro scene.

[@hhattonaom9729]

LoL sucks but at least riot knows how to grow their brand

[@sewer_dog2096]

@@gurubivolaru5114 a bunch of anime watchers got attracted to the game because of it's theme thats probably why it's still popular

[@sona8879]

@@sewer_dog2096 I’m likely bias cause I play LoL a lot, but their art and music departments are on a new level. They’ve made so much sick out-of-game content that it makes you want to keep playing (Arcane, constant cinematics, music). Overwatch however, what little content there is-such as those single skin events with weekly challenges-there’s rarely a new concept introduced

[@Cruxis_Angel]

Overwatch has to be one of the most mismanaged disasters I’ve ever seen. A game that went from the top of industry to a shadow of its former glory all in the course of a few years. It’s safe to say that the whole concept of Overwatch 2 was a mistake. They should have kept adding to OW1. It’s sad since the core gameplay still feels years ahead of every FPS that came out this year. Blizzard just has no clue what they’re doing with this.

[@zilliq]

No way to know if ow2 was a mistake until it gets out, ow2 was papa Jeff idea and I trust papa Jeff with my whole heart

[@thetruestar6348]

@@zilliq It’s very clear that OW is a mistake it’s not going to have the same momentum at all

[@TheDragShot]

Come on, it's just Team Fortress 2 with MOBA skills, lots of heroes, heavy reliance on teamplay and somewhat worse balance. It isn't exactly innovative nor ahead of its time 😅 . It never was, actually, but at least it was a nice breath of fresh air back in the day.

[@Commander_Boreale]

yeah same as Warcraft RTS, same as WoW, same as Diablo, same as Hearthstone, same as Hots. Overwatch died like all other Blizzard games died, because the company itself is a money-grabber and sjw-oriented, it prioritizes quick profits and positive sjw-press outlook over the gameplay and the playerbase responses. You got a lot of money and made the leftie press happy, but lost all your fanbase and ruined your games. Blizzard started as a bunch of nerds that cared about their games and ended as a bunch of "effective managers" from diversity quotas, thats what killed them.

[@stenyethanmathews945]

@@Commander_Boreale blizzard is sjw only on the outside to grab that positive pr. Just look at how they treated many of their female employees lol

[@RyuShinkuuHadoken]

The first year of Overwatch was pure fun, the events were new, the joy of playing with the new characters, but then it became so toxic, if you didn't play what the Overwatch League players were using everyone in your team will let you know in the most "polite" way that you should change your character. By the way I was a Symmetra main

[@Sanjixoxo]

Imagibe being a hanzo/lucio main

[@LordPatroclus]

I feel you there. I played all iterations of Sym and even Sombra. Those two characters got destroyed time and time again by "balance" patches and Blizzard refused to buff them or even revert their nerfs so they were just a bit less trash tier. So why bother?

[@thedofflin]

God I remember when having an off-meta main was treated like the most shameful thing you could ever do. I think that's when the OWL really encroached on the core casual experience, that's when the toxicity really took off.

[@Whatever-tu7ue]

@@LordPatroclus sym was overpowered in the beginning since her ramp up damage was a lock on. Her abilities were a joke, I agree there. And sombra? She was more skill based in the beginning since you had to properly time everything. Her buffs made her unfair and OP.

[@murasakino101]

I used to play it occasionally but when I did, I literally only did arcade modes and custom ones. They were the only ones to keep me entertained a bit. It's been like 3 years since I've done compet play lmao

[@lenurple2945]

I will forever be thankful to overwatch for the top-tier r34.

[@unreeeal493]

So true

[@skyefox5796]

those Winston animations slap

[@thamrew676]

@@skyefox5796 hol up

[@SoloKrypton]

@@skyefox5796 Chotto mate kudasai 😰

[@skyefox5796]

@@SoloKrypton I said what I said

[@ExplodingBumfluff]

Overwatch on release was one of the best games I've played. Simple, you could find matches instantly it had great graphics, colours, matchmaking and 0 technical issues like hit reg, bad servers or lag making for a super smooth experience. It's sad that they didn't keep it up

[@3takoyakis]

it has such a gorgeous art design ever (or maybe it bcs im a weeb) it surely would put genshin release into trouble IF OW still at its prime but genshin came RIGHT after they announce robot shapeshifter would be their LAST UPDATE for OW and went ded silent (except for some minor event which added in to keep ppl playing) it ended up when genshin release. thats the last nail on the coffin after numerous shitty thing that happen

[@jacobburt5424]

I feel like they overbalanced the fun of of the game. Overwatch at launch was so much fun but everything fun about it kept getting nerfed out.

[@luckylunch3256]

The game (in my opinion) perfect visuals, great sound work but the balance has always been terrible. Too much CC(Crowd Control), Healers are way too strong, Tanks are too strong and not support enough and ults make the casual gameplay become a Ult mashing competition. Overall the casual experience completly sucks since its basically either getting one shot by CC abusing players and Healers and tanks DPSing of course in most cases.

[@piroloviniIA]

The problem with overwatch is that it got to a point that it didnt feel i was playing a shooting game anymore...Skills didnt matter anymore. Them when i tried Valorant i just loved and never stopped playing so.....

[@alecboco8809]

@@piroloviniIA like some abilities have damage but you still have to have good aiming skill like chamber's ult or jett's. What I like about valo is it doesn't have many shields and you can't spam ult

[@DjejFunny]

The fact their solution to balance their game is to remove a player slot is so tone deff is actually pretty funny.

[@sEaNoYeAh]

It's dumb but it makes sense from their perspective. They don't know how to balance tanks, and there aren't enough tank players, plus people want to feel like their individual performance matters more. So having one less tank makes sense following that. But of course it shouldn't be a problem because they should know how to balance the game by now. The whole thing is a victim of power creep, and now there's too much damage, healing, CC and shielding. They just needed to nerf basically every hero to fix the game.

[@alainchristienemendoza9982]

@@sEaNoYeAh Nerfing every single hero won't solve the whole problem, it will only make the heroes even more unsatisfying to play, potentially removing their overall character and mostly fun factor because it is not the main problem. The game Overwatch itself is the root of the problem.

[@JustDeichan]

​@@alainchristienemendoza9982 HAHAHAHA. No. I say that to you as somnebody who played Overwatch and Paladins. Game itself isnt a problem. Its still really good and fun. Blizzard eticks is a main problem.

[@alainchristienemendoza9982]

@@JustDeichan you're right. Blizzard is the root of the problem. They forsaken the game and it took me 3 years to find the answer to the problem and I forgot about it in 2 seconds.

[@alainchristienemendoza9982]

@@JustDeichan to you maybe. But what about the majority of its playerbase? If Overwatch is still really good and fun, why are they quitting overwatch?

[@caelenow2829]

I think it really started going down when the introduced doomfist. The character list was pretty balanced between healers, tanks, and damage. There was hype from launch about the character. Everything pointed to him being a tank. Then he was a damage character with near uncounterable one shot capability. After that, the OW team continued to fumble the bag

[@linkedXaverage]

I remember doing 1v1s and anytime you rolled doomfist it was the easiest point ever

[@AoiZassoOFCL]

doomfist was unreliable and pretty bad at a high level

[@thedofflin]

I agree with this. While overall Doomfist himself has had only a partial impact on the game, there's no denying that this was when the cursed timeline began.

[@murasakino101]

@@thedofflin Plus they started to add more dps after that. Brig was pretty terrible too. I had started playing around the time she came out so I was a newbie and getting shield bashed by her every second was awful. Not to mention the shield not getting destroyed after I literally sprayed it with bullets lmao Edit: I've seen videos of doom when he first came out, and I'm SO glad I joined after he was nerfed. I can't imagine him flying at you out of nowhere as a beginner lmao. He can still do it with a skilled player but he isn't used as often anymore

[@potatohhh25]

Bro forgot about brig, bap, sigma, orisa 💀. Doom was never the problem unless u didnt know how to counter heroes in ow.

[@aeyasera1]

I'd also like to point out that the inception of the Overwatch League killed all of the amateur/tier2 pro/tournament scene, Blizzard wanted all of the views to be on the OWL and there ended up being no real place to foster new talent in smaller third-party tournaments. The influx of new pros being mostly dead, and the lack of smaller tournaments to fill OWL downtime, were tangible factors to the game's death too.

[@danneltheflannel]

OWL shouldn't have even been a thing till the game was 2-3 years old.

[@pippo17173]

@@danneltheflannel But they did because loot box money ain't enough. The content stop because they needed the owl to fun the game and it basically became shit like you see from a bull.

[@Kellexyz]

I mean it work for valorant, blizzard is just incompetent I wish they would stick to what they do with their other games and doesn't force their e-sports

[@pippo17173]

@@Kellexyz I feel activision had some play in that if I remember, didn't activision bought them around 2014 or 15. don't know how long really.

[@ArchieGamez]

Remember OGN Overwatch? I GET IT Those were the days ;-;

[@AkadaJr]

I played overwatch not that long ago because my friend died, and he really likes that game. We grouped up and wrecked everything in his name. It was awesome.

[@phoenixflamegames1]

I’m sorry for your loss.

[@ibrahimfekry3610]

F

[@ttkh7973]

Don't worry soon your friend will be able to play it again.

[@PrismHeartOfficial]

This is really wholesome and i wish you, your friends, and his family, my biggest and warmest condolences.

[@abhinandhari7812]

He must have loved it in spectator mode

[@m.a.n.7469]

You didnt talk about how there has been NO content in 19 months. How are we expected to wait for nearly two years with no updates.

[@egorps2370]

tf2 players laughing

[@bryannaing6316]

@@egorps2370 I don't play overwatch so idk if they get seasonal lootboxes but TF2 still gets seasonal updates, though all we get are new maps and cosmetics, so it's kinda right but also not But yeah look at these Overwatch players talking about not getting any content

[@ladysyberia7419]

@@bryannaing6316 its been over 2 years since we got a new hero, got a new ACTUAL map, not a death map. There is no continual updates for the lootboxes, the last time they did that was about 4 years ago, and they havent done it since. They still try balancing updates, but this last expiremental card (where they let the players experiment with these changes) was completely crap changes and none came through. And at first these experimental changes came regularly, now it's rare if we ever get a hint of one. Overwatch has been left to rot. Its pretty sad.

[@RadioMagnetofon]

@@egorps2370 ouch blizzard litteraly took notes from valve

[@OkagaCalifornia]

The last actual patch happened in august I think lol.

[@rednidedni3875]

Aside from all the problems with the OWL, Overwatch 2 and blizzard falling out of grace, there's just a looot of problems in OW's very core game design that ended up making life incredibly hard for the people trying to balance it, unlike any other game where you can select a character for PvP. - Heroes have abilities that can counter other heroes strongly, making the heroes countered by the meta hard to enjoy - Ultimates allow very little counterplay aside from other ultimates, making it extremely important for the meta to squeeze the most out of them to allow even less counterplay - Hero switching being allowed and heroes countering others means you can't implement a ban system to help limit the meta options, which will always always be picked once they're figured out - The above makes balancing a complete fuckin tightrope, as making one char marginally more powerful means everyone will run it in the meta and end up countering a bunch others like tracer - Blizzard's insistence on keeping a firm grasp on the meta, potentially because of that, disallowing the fun of people discovering the game and playing how they want to in favor of rigid abilities that always do what they're "meant" to do, killing creatvity with stuff like mercy boosts

[@LordPatroclus]

It's hilarious how Blizzard just kept nerfing DPS heroes instead of reworking damage boosts,even though they were the whole reason said heroes were broken. Everyone agrees Nanoblade is an annoying combo and that Mercy pockets are awful to deal with as well,but they never did anything about those. Oh and also,back in 2018,the game would've ended up in a better spot if they had just nerfed mobility/dive and never introduced Brig.

[@philithegamer8265]

Blizzard has zero clue to how to balance a metagame or even deal with a metagame.

[@mutantraze3681]

@@LordPatroclus Dive was never meta. It was used abit in professional play. Thats it

[@PaganSamurai]

@@LordPatroclus Yeah I don't know how Brigitte ever made it past the balancing team.

[@jaydoherty7676]

Also worth mentioning: while the “home team” aspect may have worked in theory, some teams (like Boston Uprising) saw an almost entire team roster turnover between Season 1 and Season 2. It made it impossible to become attached to players, which in turn made it hard to stick with a team. By the time Season 2 rolled around, in addition to the controversial changes to the game, the team you tuned in to watch barely resembled the team you had grown attached to the season prior, so it became much easier to just stop tuning in.

[@papermario3982]

As a former huge OWL fan, this here! When I became an NYXL fan, it began as regional loyalty, but I grew to love "my boys" and they were why I loved the team. When NYXL dumped basically its entire roster between seasons 3 and 4, I had little reason to root for them anymore besides "yay New York I guess." I tried, but they had done my beloved boys so dirty that it was hard to watch, and eventually I gave up trying to get invested in the new players. And now I'm glad I didn't waste my time trying, because they've dumped the whole roster yet again lmao. I don't regret all my NYXL merch, I still wear and display it. I loved season 1-3 NYXL with all my heart, and that's what all of my merch is for. It's for seasons 1-3 NYXL, not what the team is today. Rooting for my team a couple evenings a week, attending the 2018 Grand Finals and getting a signed poster at the NYXL popup shop (still on my wall right now), attending the 2020 NY Homestand and cheering my heart out as each of my boys walked to the stage, high-fiving an equally excited stranger in the row in front of me after an amazing play... All are memories I cherish dearly. I'm sad that the team I loved is a shell of its former self, and I haven't tuned into OWL in many months. But I guess that's how life goes-- things come and go. But it makes me sad, because it was so preventable. I still love Overwatch as an esport, but I can't get into it anymore-- it just makes my heart hurt.

[@addisonwoods9367]

not even going to mention that every team was just 6 Koreans

[@edwardcardona717]

This is a problem with not just Overwatch, but a lot of esports in general. I play a lot of video games, and I’m a major consumer of various IRL sports, but when rosters change orgs year to year and it’s constantly in and out and in and out for most teams, it’s been difficult to attach myself to anyone. Back when Rocket League esports was starting up, it felt like new teams every year and inconsistency at every turn. I’m finally getting into Valorant esports now cause I play the game extensively and am on a school team myself, but it’s taken a lot to finally get there and enjoy it. As someone who has had the same Tennessee Titans all my life, and more recently Manchester City and Nashville SC, it’s so much easier to keep track of because real stability exists. Hell, even though I don’t watch em much, I support the Grizzlies not just cause they’re in my state, but because my youth league basketball was supported by them. Lasting infrastructure doesn’t exist like that in esports yet. And that’s just with the normal approach to esports; when you try to build a franchise, a home team, in an environment where extremely high amounts of turnover is common, where orgs and players are leaving and joining all the time, where the game being played doesn’t even have any sure longevity because it’s a video game and not a sport, it just doesn’t work. On top of that, they tried to have long distance international travel actually work on a regular basis, something that only F1 can truly seem to pull off

[@malasian]

@Nushia I think what he/she meant was "North American" team but instead of the "NA" team being well, American players who are American citizens. It's just mostly Korean players who are not American citizens who played for the "NA" teams.

[@farryhandika]

Traditional sports doesn't have to change their entire squad for new season, and also they have same number of subtitute as the main team to accomodate injury. Esport only have main team and doesn't need sub at all because no subs in-game. That's why esport is prone to roster changes

[@Ypog_UA]

When you think about it, TF2 and Valve has done basically the opposite. Almost no major balance changes, no official competitive, no official updates for a long time... And the game is still going

[@mozes88]

Ow is also still going, people say its death, media say its death. Then you launch the game and queue times are faster than ever.

[@karlisulmanis3810]

There is an official comp mode, though it takes a while to queue. And I'm pretty sure there's still 1 dev trying to update the game ever so often. Props to him..

[@crackjack144]

It’s more like no official major updates. sure seasonal updates and those random updates we had during the fall aren’t big and what people exactly wanted but they are official updates none the less

[@andreastwj]

@@mozes88 When I have to wait about 11 minutes in order to play a single game of support, I wouldn't exactly say the game is thriving

[@gorelovelive5022]

@@andreastwj many games have long queue times e.g. old ones like cs and dota, but yeah, in overwatch it's too much.

[@paulgibbon5991]

I think the lore was another factor in how interest declined, at least for me. With OW, you had these really distinctive and intriguing characters in this cool quasi-superhero world--giant mecha-monsters menacing Korea, Australia being a post-apocalyptic wasteland, a super-intelligent gorilla who was raised on the moon, robot monks, cyber-ninja, all these cool characters with hinted-at backstories and rivalries....and then it just went nowhere. We got flashback PVE missions to round out backstory (which mainly just told us what we already knew), and short movies which were really good but again, didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. New heroes and events didn't really advance the story beyond "Overwatch is verrrrry slooooowly getting back together, Talon is enacting their vague Evil Plan." I think the "seriously?" point for me was Storm Rising, where the big reveal is that Doomfist is secretly working with....some guy we've never seen before. Years in, and we still had no idea why characters like Symmetra or Pharah were even in the game, or which side they were on. It started to feel like the X-Files, when the "mystery" started to feel like a cover for "yeah, we have no idea where to take this story, so we'll just pile mysteries and Cryptic Hints on top of each other as a holding pattern". Oh, Sombra might be a double agent within Talon! Why do we care about that again? Of course, all this stuff doesn't matter in terms of pure gameplay. But I think it made a difference for me and many other players (a lot of the monetization of the game revolved around skins, voice lines, tags and other things rooted in the lore, after all). I'm middling at BEST in terms of skill, but even if I don't aspire to being a pro or even Gold-ranked, good lore keeps me invested, and makes me feel like a character in the world as well as a player clicking on things I want to go away. That was why I gave OW a shot even though I don't normally like FPS games. With Overwatch, that element was always weak in the actual gameplay--much like League of Legends. But LOL has very strong development of the lore outside the gameplay (and in its sister franchises), something Overwatch really flopped in.

[@OutOfPocket-h9e]

Just wanna say, Arcane was fucking dope. If only Blizzard made something like that.

[@Mordeiv]

@@OutOfPocket-h9e If you think Arcane was dope you should read more into League's lore. I swear that game is so hateable but the lore is too good it's insane you'd want a movie or a few spin off series.

[@gavriloIV]

Totally agreed. Riot's lore department seriously humiliates blizzard. Arcane is really just the beginning. The sky's the limit for Riot, where Blizzard cements itself in stagnation.

[@OutOfPocket-h9e]

@@Mordeiv Will do

[@cupcakemcsparklebutt9051]

Agreed

[@sti_clone3840]

I like how they say “and even casual players” well you just put majority of your player base in last place.

[@jym2r]

overwatch was golden for a while, and still could be amazing if they updated the game and balanced their game properly. gameplay lore esports was so good at one point

[@hakkorai]

is that the real jymer

[@alexlloyd5354]

As always, TF2 is always golden, not updated in 4 years, still timeless masterpiece. Beat that.

[@johnsorrows8998]

Hey at least it worked on release when's the last time you've heard that from blizzard no but seriously the games never been great great it got alot of free marketing 1 from rule 34 and 2 being a blizzard game when that still kinda meant something hell even battleborn had more balancing done to it and they shut the servers down in like 2018

[@RM-56]

Overwatch esports has gotten significantly better since the beginning. Someone who has been watching Overwatch esports since 2018 I can tell you for sure

[@Ty-v6v-c4r]

@@alexlloyd5354 That sounds like the equivalent of saying "As always, AOE2 is always golden, not updated in 4 years, still timeless masterpiece. Beat that." Yeah a smaller dedicated fanbase is more likely to breed loyalty and subjective claims like yours.

[@JerkyMurky]

"If you want your team to win youre going to have to play whats meta." THIS, this here is the problem with overwatch. If you foster skill over meta like good competitive fps games do, youll have instances where a team can play off meta, brilliantly, and win. It happens in nearly every other competitive fps, rts, and fighting game. Blizzard forcing the meta on people because they cant fucking balance killed overwatch.

[@Hhhh22222-w]

They removed interesting plays when they made roles

[@ThunderGiant]

That's pretty much what happened at the beginning. People experimented with different sorts of team compositions, and you even saw Torbjorn pre-buff used by Dallas Fuel to great effect.

[@paronicle3129]

Isn’t that… every game out there though?

[@molasses1415]

@@paronicle3129 Not even close man. Even in League of Legends you can play somewhat off meta. Hell, sometimes the off meta BECOMES meta. Any fighting game you can play any character and make it work. I'm pretty sure Overwatch is the biggest case of not letting players play what they want. GOATS just showed people how restrictive it really was. People would yell at you for just playing what you wanted, and then add the fact that your character likely just gets hard countered by the meta and you have a game that you just don't want to play.

[@jobo2243]

@@molasses1415 lmao your not serious are you? are you a fighting game player? I would like you to make your super turbo Honda work against my guile.

[@Suwawako]

That moment when tf2, despite the bots, is still somehow more alive than overwatch

[@InTecknicolour]

tf2 is a better game. default strat tf2 at least has room for dps instead of this dumb goat meta

[@berk-berk-berk]

Cope

[@Suwawako]

@unsubtract casual is the future

[@xlbthedemigod5662]

Nope

[@ArchieGamez]

@unsubtract So true, Meet Your Match update fucked TF2 hard in that aspect i wish they reverted it back

[@impytus]

Overwatch in its prime is hand down the best game I've ever played. However, it was more important for its designers to create the game they want to create, than to satisfy their audience. Terrible and ignorant developers. I'm actually glad it failed.

[@mrgodzillaraptors8632]

Reject overwatch, return to team fortress 2

[@buzter8135]

@@mrgodzillaraptors8632 Pootis

[@buzter8135]

@Sinneslöschen *Snort*

[@Drakensson]

Sometimes the world needs developers that make their games the way they want. Sometimes people dont know what they want until you show them. Ignoring mainstream opinions and taking risks can result in original and successful games. Flappy Bird and other frustrating "bad" games are a good example. This is also the kind of game designer I have decided to be. The world need such developers, they just dont know it

[@buzter8135]

@@Drakensson inb4 people shame this lad for making a legit point.

[@ff1077]

The fact that Team Fortress 2 outlived Overwatch is the best thing to see.

[@petrspetsnaz630]

"valve releasing barely two updates for TF2 after overwatch was released": - just as planned

[@TheSecondVersion]

And the universe will undergo heat death before Counter-Strike dies out

[@jeriann.glaser7680]

Yeah but you can't even play Tf2 normally so...?

[@qwerrorsstuff8217]

@@jeriann.glaser7680 ever tried community servers casual is toxic yeah but hmmmmmmmm why not play something better

[@LURKTec]

TF2 is unironically dead lol, it's literally just all bots and cheaters, even the devs don't give a shit at this point.

[@Ponysm]

The problem for me wasn't the balance itself, but how much time it took for them to do something. I remember GOATS being for MONTHS in the meta

[@immakillu2]

Dive was meta for like a year and a half before that too

[@wendigo374]

and then they buff reaper and made him op

[@brainbox9219]

Goats lasted a year lol

[@AzureRoxe]

@@immakillu2 And ironically, they buffed Doomfist because he "countered divers". While completely ignoring that Doomfist.....IS a diver, meaning they literally gave the dive meta a superweapon.

[@HerbaceousM8]

@@AzureRoxe ug i quit that patch. what a mess

[@BotBoy-un3pz]

The first few months of this game were the best gaming experience I’ve ever had. I wish I could experience something like that again.

[@somerandomguy6767]

Exactly. I remember when it first came out and how excited I was to play it back in 2016. But now...WTH

[@realtime8892]

Same. I played it almost ever day from early June to late august. I am not sure why I stopped, but I think I just got to a point where I had my fill.

[@OMartinez91]

I think it started going downhill once competitive came out

[@donaldodiaz4012]

Halo is good

[@samm_0091]

Same

[@legoferrari14]

With Blizzard's announcement of the PvE mode's cancellation, Overwatch as a Franchise died faster than TF2's _pre-launch development cycle_

[@dudebro5542]

"What killed Overwatch was Blizzard; it was an avalanche of decisions..." Even in a video like this they threw in some puns!

[@InnerEagle]

Blizzard is taking bad decisions. I still love the game, but they had to manage better timing and ideas

[@emceeb5289]

@@InnerEagle .

[@InnerEagle]

@@emceeb5289 That dot killed me, I'll sue you

[@michaelmartins4456]

Remember back in like 2016 when everyone was tracer or reaper for halloween. OW went from all that hype to where we are now

[@Fr00stee]

Game really started dying around 2018, i literally only play to get event lootboxes and thats it

[@byeolboi]

@@Fr00stee not 2018 maybe 2019-2020ish

[@Gerkan23]

And i hope this game will die soon. Nit really because of the game itself, because of how dirty trash and toxic of a company Blizzard is. They deserve to be legally shut down

[@Arhivite]

@@Fr00stee Oh I wonder why. There is a hero that released at 2018. It was called Briggite I think. Idk a lot of people didn't like her

[@Firearmsenjoyer]

A story mode would've been nice. Why not give us a campaign so that your characters get to be more fleshed out instead of using cinematics?

[@v-2xe]

With how much of an incostistent mess overwatch lore was last time I checked, I'm not sure if a story mode by the same writers would have solved all those issues it had or if would have just made them worse

[@SeaSloth095]

They are making a campaign for OW2, yes they’re making a 4 player co-op campaign which was announced since fucking forever

[@luisvilca4467]

I thought they cancelled OW2. But i have zero expectations for that, probably will be a very cardbox story

[@marlom7882]

I KNOW RIGHT!? Holy shit 7 years since this shit came out and still no story mode. If it had actual plot when it was at its peak damn game could’ve “broke the internet” (as they say)

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

Oh there's a *lot* more problems than that

[@opo3628]

It goes to show that an e-sports scene has to happen organically...you can't *force* it into existence.

[@philithegamer8265]

THAT was the main issue with Overwatch.

[@evilmostdefinitely4729]

^ i'd rather blizz went the ninty route of "barely acknowledge the pro scene" than this mess

[@justblais21]

one of the most addicting primes and saddest falls a game has ever had

[@Shinn27]

I don’t think I’ve ever loved / been as addicted to a game as I have with OW, and that’s speaking as a 20 year wow player. But I think it’s telling that I stopped playing comp after season 5-6

[@BunnyTheOverlord]

Still remember how pissed I was about the Roadhog nerf then they just kept doing it. When you got players feeling sorry for their most hated heroes getting nerfed you know you fucked up, rip Mercy.

[@tinyzx]

Overwatch was probably one of my favourite gaming memories. Coming home for winter break and just spamming the winter 3v3s with my friends was so exciting. It is really sad to see it go so down hill so fast - It's one of the only games I still don't mind playing non-stop but the failure of the competitive scene and the lacklustre appearance of OW2 has killed all hype in the community which is really unlucky. Atleast we have PH content sadge

[@KingVarianWrynn]

dog shit game by a dog shit company

[@Sela1]

As a casual player, I wad annoyed by boring events, horrible balance and absolutely no progress in the lore. When they wanted to make us buy a new game to get some lore, I lost it

[@vullord666]

Personally it probably makes up one of my worse gaming memories. The PVP always felt like an abusive toxic relationship I didn't know how to leave. PVE events were actually fun, but few and far between with very little variation. I do think overwatch was meant to be played with friends and had great meme plays on KZbin, so maybe it was just not a fun shooter to play solo.

[@HaxHaunter]

im surprised you missed a couple things from a more casual side of things: OW2's whole intent was to be the game that OW was originally supposed to be: a Story-driven PvE game rather than a PvP game. Jeff's original idea was to expand more on the lore and have a more PvE side rather than PvP, but it was Activision that wanted the team to focus more on going PvP instead. OW2 was supposed to make his original vision a reality, but now that he left and most of Activision is gone to crap, the series is as good as dead unless another company buy the IP's corpse. why else do you think there was almost no story whatsoever in the original game?

[@Firan25]

I mean...there IS story. But stupidly they put them in PVE matches that only happened during their anniversaries or when they decided to release a new skin. the PVE events where a blast for me, and I mostly played against the AI bots anyway. But playing the bots over and over got tiresome real fast.

[@marlom7882]

Ooooohhhhhh that explains a lot

[@pcxPOT]

@@Firan25 I never met a person who enjoys the boring as fuck PVE events.

[@shinmasterryu]

@@Firan25 Happened during the archives*

[@Duke_of_Spook]

I prefer it this way. I don't play OW for the story.

[@Killa90Robot]

Personally, I always though the addition of Moira and the follow support characters is what killed the meta, resulting in everyone leaving. Prior to her you COULD deal reliable DPS as a healer, but it was always going to be secondary to the support. Healers were still squishy and needed protection. Moira/Brigitte/Baptiste are all support characters that can easily hold their own against a damage dealer, and often times win. This allowed the meta to switch away from damage dealers being required, as the healers themselves could now deal damage. The mercy change was also non-sense to do.

[@Kspice9000]

Moira was a poor addition for the reason you said. But also how easy they were. Moira literally took no aiming, had an extra group dps or heal boost, and fade was disgusting in it's utility compared to other support. For me what broke the game was Sombra and the Mercy hyper armor fiasco. Sombras a severely underestimated and powerful utility character that locks out the opposing team in almost everyway. Mercy and junkrat was just way to powerful when they reworked her and I could tell this was just going to be formula for them.

[@LIONTAMER3D]

stop using the term "meta" if you don't know what it means

[@kermit8173]

@Kitten town doesn't matter if people understand the gist of their comment. Maybe you should have put a full stop at the end of your sentence so I knew that there wasn't a missing part. While you are at it maybe capitalize your first letter so I don't get lost and read from the middle to the end.

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

yeah I quit when Moira was added. I heard she was mad broken, glad I quit at that point. been having nostalgic fun with 2 though after 5 years, it feels pretty fresh in comparison to the boring metas we've had for the past 5 years. I will say, the newer characters from OW1 (mainly moira still and ones following her) are quite annoying and it does feel like they were designed to be less aim focused/creativity built (mainly with abilities), which is why I've found Kiriko to be SUCH A BREATH OF FRESH AIR. my god if role queue wasn't a thing I'd probably secondary her. she's able to dish out heavy damage, but it actually takes effort to do. you can even outdo moira's no-effort tick damage if you try hard enough. And her healing is quite good too. She can barely hold her own in a fight, but if you're good enough you can do it. Her abilities are not overtuned either. the teleport is quite limited and is more like Mercy's flight than something like Sombra's translocator on the fly, and the invincibility is something you can REALLY make use of in a clutch situation Her ult is also very useful while not being overtuned since it isnt infinite range. There is no "win" button as you'd expect and she's about as limited in mobility as Hanzo, while having less ability to defend herself than he does because of her lesser damage. so she can't quite entirely fill the role of DPS but she can in a pinch, or if you are fighting a really good Kiriko player, who actually has to work for their skill. I've also found Soljourn to be a strong DPS pick and fits in pretty nicely (though her vortex and general damage output is a bit more than I'd like) and Junker Queen is a nice counterpart to Roadhog as a damage-focused tank, where Roadhog focuses on quick burst damage and getting real close, Junker Queen opts more for tick damage and can play better at midranges. I do hope this is how they continue to design heroes going forward, because these feel refreshing compared to how every hero added in 1 was always broken (even all the way back to Ana, who I really like now but Nano was super busted on release) and yeah Brig sucks but not as much as she used to

[@niggachu420]

Lol the DPS mains funny af

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

*5 Years Later:* Blizzard: Overwatch 2 is a failure boys time to get started on Overwatch 3.

[@Rain87166]

I swear if it turns into fifa where they slap a new number on the game every year

[@brycebitetti1402]

The hell does that even mean?

[@MariOmor1]

So uncivilized

[@timjor7731]

What’s wrong with Mario?

[@Trueitshim]

@@timjor7731 nothing. Old is gold is all i can say

[@ImFeja]

I grinded to GM in this game, from bronze, over 2 years, and as soon as I hit it, I realized I hadn't enjoyed the game in forever. The game is great, but the lack of content, and the Metas killed the game. Peopel complained about dive, but at least is was fun. Goats was hell on earth. Still have nightmares from someone locking in a DPS then the entire team going "Go goats or we lose"

[@ERACLAB]

Yeah at some point I realized I get incredibly angry at the game in a very unhealthy way because small mistakes lose you matches and closer you get to GM the more annoying it gets. Dive was fun and for me it was prime OW.

[@21nyxx]

Nah, people forget that when goats came out it was genuinely fun to play, call it whatever you want. braindead, chaotic, confusing, but during the first month it was played it was actually fun cause it was fresh and in low elo you got to just yell into your mic and run into people. In high elo it was extremely team oriented which made it very fun to play in scrims. It only has a bad rep because it lasted 8 months and is associated with brig

[@ImFeja]

@@21nyxx Nah in high elos ot was played as a stall game. Basically play super safe until you can pick off a support

[@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS]

@@21nyxx true

[@DDracee]

@@21nyxx maybe for you, most teams refused to play it up till they realized they absolutely had to, i was grinding t3 at the time, people were upset in scrims from the very first day there was even drama about not playing goats in scrims since goats teams felt it was a waste of time to practice anything other than goats vs goats leaving alot of counter meta teams losing their scrim partners theres also something to be said about dps mains who spent years mastering their aim suddenly realizing that it's not required anymore, they had the worst of it, a real fuck you to their face

[@MayasMotivation]

I had fun for the first three years of Overwatch. It made so many memorable memories that I'll cherish forever. I gave up when I realized that it had been three years and yet they have yet to expand the lore. I was captivated by the lore, the designs and the world. But nothing came. Only scraps of stories and a few cinematics. Nothing concrete. Looking at Arcane, I felt this was how Overwatch could have been. I'm happy for LoL fans to see their characters made into animated series. Overwatch... You have been great. Thank you for giving the amazing memories..

[@Rain87166]

Last time I played overwatch some guy called doomfist was the last character not sure when hat was but I barely enjoyed it that time

[@porkman302]

Same, first 3 years of overwatch were some of my favorite times in gaming. I genuinely loved the game. Once the game became balanced around the pro scene it just lost what made it fun to me. It felt too controlled, too rigid. Blizzard didn’t listen to the community. This is a big lesson for developers on how to maintain a game. I switched over to DOTA 2 and it’s embarrassing how much better of a game it is. I’ve been playing it for nearly 3 years now and valve does drastic changes constantly, but the difference? Everyone loves all the changes. They all feel fresh and ADD to the experience rather than annoy.

[@Tunavi]

Arcane came out 12 years after LoL’s release

[@skullcrusher5424]

exactly, if they kept pumping in content and focused on new characters and lore they wpuldve made it

[@Blaz1ngFury]

Nah who cares about lore in a game like this. It just got boring

[@Aryan_homophobe]

What killed OW is two fukking years without updates. No new heroes, no new maps no nothing. With only a promise of a OW2 that just not looking fun at all.

[@exudeku]

"Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer" -Darkest Dungeon

[@xuvial1391]

I think OW became way too teamplay-dependent for it's own good. Requiring teamwork is fine, but OW pushes it to the extreme. ALL metas have revolved around stacking specific abilities/ultimates for maximum cheese. If even 1 out of 12 players in the match doesn't feel like coordinating, the game falls apart and becomes a one-sided stomp fest. If that player happens to be a tank, then you might as well quit the match early. This is why matches can be so wildly inconsistent even though you individually aren't playing any better or worse. Your performance is heavily dependent on what 11 other players enable you to do (or not do). That's also why the community is most toxic out of any online game. Every individual on the team can feel they're playing great, but if the other team just stacks ultimates slightly better and counter-picks they will have a MASSIVE inherent advantage that no amount of individual skill can overcome. Matches can often be lost at the hero select screen before they even begin. Even wins feel unsatisfying when it's clear someone on the enemy team isn't coordinating or getting hard countered. If all 12 players aren't on the same page, the entire experience is fucked for everyone.

[@Ace-jv9ls]

Fair point but I think that this argument is mostly applicable for players below mid-diamond. Obviously you'll get the eventual bad apple in your games but player skill levels are generally pretty consistent masters+.

[@Andytlp]

If individuals cant shine then its a bad game design even for a team oriented game. In moba every role can do plays and carry the team solo or with the help of others.

[@danneltheflannel]

Lmao, this argument. You are stuck in silver and gold because of your own terrible play, has nothing to do with your teammates after you play 100+ games in ranked. If you think the game is actually 90% out of your control, then of course you are never going to climb, in any ranked team based game.

[@xuvial1391]

​@@danneltheflannel You're right, it's not 90%. There are 12 people in a match so the actual number is 91.66% out of your individual control. Also I'm not gold/silver, I had climbed to high diamond at one point and then quit ranked because DPS queue times were hitting 15+ mins and I wasn't having any fun against braindead shield comps and losing SR for teammates disconnecting/throwing/etc.

[@portascar7996]

this is what is fun about overwatch, that teamplay, but what they did is rather than enhance that feeling they took the game to a different direction, and they are doing the exact same thing with 5v5, people loved overwatch and will love overwatch for what it was, not goats and not 5v5, both of them are trash. Also, if you don't like teamwork I don't think overwatch is for you, and its ok overwatch doesn't need to be to everyone. I would also stop looking at it from a fps view alone, look at it from both a moba and fps pov, because in mobas 1+1 can equal much more than 3, and in fps 1+1 equals 2. so look at it like its a combination and not just from what you came from.

[@Molisa682]

This really breaks my heart. I met the most incredible people playing this game, who literally changed my life and honestly? I still love playing it. Overwatch's gameplay is something I feel like I'll never find anywhere else. But i can't deny that the game is dying, it's been bad decision after bad decision with no sign of stopping. Why did you have to do this, Blizzard? Why sabotage one of the biggest sources of enjoyment in my life to hell like this? All you had to do was not ruin it. Announcing a sequel must've been the stupidest decision I've ever seen a company take in the scenario that they were in.

[@3takoyakis]

they want you to pay money for every fix you get just keep away from it

[@coolstufftodo5256]

@@3takoyakis explain tho. There are no payed dlcs and no pay to win stuff at all

[@cheesy4384]

I met two online friends that i’ve had for 3 years on overwatch, and it’s really sad to see the state of the game. I’m not even going to buy OW2

[@3takoyakis]

​@@coolstufftodo5256 OW2 didnt offer much but progression system, lots and lots of changes in core mechanic, _slightly_ graphic quality changes and PVE mode addition. This is added with PVP and *_all_* progression you made in OW1 will be carried to OW2 From the fact that OW1 last update was echo (the rest update are simply targetting ppl to stay), you could say OW2 is just delayed update about fix and stuff we should get in OW1 but we need to *_pay money for it_* .Why tf they need to shutdown update for OW1 when they just start developing OW2. Also why they announced it so early?! It kills the game and their fans (who literally doing free promotion in business perspective) Added with how blizzard reputation recently and their management of OW1, there isnt much hope for it.

[@adhamadyatma4716]

It feels sad remembering the time you used in the game, and knowing that the state of OW is as good as dead, would break the heart of many fans of this IP. However, we can't do anything now because the company who handle the game is going in ita downfall after the recent fiasco they made.

[@Farfallexi]

I've met so many amazing people playing this game, and I'm still amazing friends with most of them to this day. I made so many good memories in the first 2 years (been playing since Halloween 2016) and I genuinely had more fun playing this game than any other game, I even climbed from silver to masters. As much as I'd love to let it go, I just can't do it. Something about the comfort of those old memories just won't let me leave. Remembering coming home from school for winter break being so eager to play with the new Winter Wonderland skins and play the winter gamemodes with my friends. Those memories are the reason I can't leave this game, it just breaks my heart too much.

[@s0711ila]

same i can’t believe im still sticking to this game but honestly it can be fun sometimes when i play different game modes on arcade

[@matthewwhite343]

gonna make me cry lol, i remember running home from school when the day the winter event was announced to be released in like 2016 or 2017

[@Farfallexi]

@@s0711ila I agree, though I do prefer quickplay classic to mess around lol

[@Farfallexi]

@@matthewwhite343 IKR!? My exact thoughts, had the same feeling when I was in school too ;-;

[@Jesse-jp8bt]

Fuck dude I played one of the free weekends and I was fucking hooked. I begged my dad to buy it for me because I was just a freshmen in hs and didn't have a job. Best memories with this game, miss the addiction, don't get that adrenaline high like I used to because it's just frustrating now, also confusing, so much shit happens on your screen and you're left scrambling. I miss 2016 to 2018 OW, after Brigette I just stopped playing entirely, still waiting on a update on that Genji lore :(

[@dearickangelonej.legaspi6686]

I remember rewatching the Hanzo and Genji cinematic every day because of how good it was.

[@Sela1]

Same, loved the lore, and they never made anything with it

[@tyguy6827]

@@Sela1 Imagine if Blizzard/Activision would be something similar to Riot Games and Arcane. Overwatch would explode

[@Sela1]

@@tyguy6827 that's what I waiting for, but Cancervision/Shitzzard is too greedy and incompetent to make a show to boost their game.

[@sheikshook5720]

@@Sela1 Paladins also went downhill

[@dimitrijejovanovic5939]

I remember building my new PC because of Overwatch, after four years of gaming hiatus. That game really helped me during 2017 and 2018 when I really struggled with mental health. There was something for everyone, and I think that was the thing that attracted so many people. The game had such a large potential that it was almost tangible. Loads of pages on Artstation dedicated to custom heroes and maps, Reddit threads about the lore, the universe, the heroes and their relationships. I think that if Blizz even took a glance at the creativity of the community, this game would have still been popular. But no, all of that potential is wasted, eggs were placed in the wrong basket, and with the lawsuits and Valorant on top of that, I think that the game is done. And I am beyond sad to see the game I loved so much crash and burn in that way.

[@Ty-v6v-c4r]

Amazing. Overwatch. helped. you. with. your. mental. health. I juts want you to know, I think you are a very strong person. You go dude :)

[@nickpillow5692]

Overwatch had its own culture it was amazing to see but the downfall was so sad they just were oblivious to their community

[@Furyfrags]

This video is a statement as to why Tf2 should be given more respect from valve. Tf2 outlived overwatch as its competition. All these decades crafted a welcoming and humourous community. Overwatch could have gone down that path, but blizzard screwed up.

[@yenno4533]

Nice, for me it killed my mental health lol. Only fifa is worse 😡

[@lokanantazain]

@@capilah6285 Yeah StarCraft series for me

[@hatsuneelissu5924]

to me it just became so boring! allways the SAME events! ALWAYS nerfing the wrong characters but buffing the BS characters that can allready one shot you accross the map!

[@TheRusty]

You can blame OWL for the absurd nerds and buffs. The problem is... overwatch isn't a fun game to watch. Like streamers are fun because of the banter, but just watching twelve Koreans silently stare at a screen and move their mouse, not amazing. So Overwatch decided that they needed to hyperbuff damage, nerf tanks and healers, and give everyone big movement and displacement abilities. This is all to create the illusion of 'fast-paced dynamic gameplay!" when in reality it's still twelve koreans starign silently at a screen, just moving Echo around instead of Dva

[@ceu160193]

@@TheRusty By making it fun to watch, it becomes awful to play.

[@GunslingerLv]

Junkrat getting second mine and no explosive demage on himself was deal breaker

[@braydenbryant3977]

For honor buffs and nerfs be like

[@whitegoose2017]

@@TheRusty For me there is no entertainment value in watching Overwatch, because there is just too many things happening on the screen at the same time.

[@emmanm3583]

I remember how much I used to desperately want overwatch when I saw the first ever OW animation- I was younger then and had been so inspired by it that I had drawn posters and art and even did a school assignment on it as just the whole concept and the characters just resonated with me. When I finally got the game YEARS later, I was so infatuated and played it all the time and even had a team from my school for fun. But then suddenly the queues became emptier and the gameplay was getting more and more boring. And then I tried valorant and I have just played that since. But I miss overwatch and all the memories I associate it with :((( i really hope blizzard gets it together and revives the game :((

[@SteelKicker01]

Bruh I feel u

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

as someone in a very similar boat, you should give 2 a shot. It isnt perfect, but the gameplay is the best it's been since 2018 (they also don't ask for your phone number or other private info anymore so no worries on that front). theyve also done a much better job at balancing the new heroes and re-tooling the old ones, Kiriko may be my new favorite support and I'd probably secondary her if role queue wasn't still a thing. it still has the same charm it had years ago, but the gameplay isn't a slog anymore

[@Thalln]

Game was so much fun at launch. Sure there were a lot of characters that were completely broken (roadhogs hooks, widow HS ramp up, Genji triple jump, hanzo scattershot, etc) but it made it fun. It was frustrating, but also fun because you could easily abuse the same stuff. Instead of nerfing the heroes that were fun, they shouldve buffed the heroes that were bad. They went down the path of every new hero needing some sort of CC and it literally just made it so you spent more time not playing the game and dying because you get chain cc'd, thats a lot less enjoyable than getting hooked through 5 walls across the map.

[@ljdoff]

Its not fun for a long time. If you don't patch the game and just keeps playing the same it gets boring. Overbuffing wouldn't solve it also.

[@slowboioi4192]

@@ljdoff overbuffing is dota's fundamental balancing strategy and its retained its player base while improving the watchability of the pro scene. Its also extremely balanced. 119/120 heroes were picked the in last international. Overbuffing works when done right.

[@ceu160193]

Because back there we had some balance - instant kills were counterbalanced by resurrects and old teleport. But then both resurrect and teleport got weakened, while instant kills became more common, and everything went downhill.

[@ljdoff]

@@slowboioi4192 yeah, but how many games have icefrog?

[@ozymandias7392]

Don’t forget the Torb memes. Honestly they should have just buffed the weaker champs (like you mentioned) and kept it crazy fun.

[@rooskyv]

This game will always have a special place in my heart, the first game that I bought and introduced me to multiplayer games in general. The friends I made along the way too. The company chocked it to death and it’s a shame, I hope one day I can having fun again with this game.

[@nex5691]

me too but thats if bobby gets his ass kicked out of blizz then i would see hope bobby basically sucked its life force for money

[@rooskyv]

@@nex5691 yeah, basically they have to ‘factory reset’ the company in order to save this game.

[@Griza_bella]

@@nex5691 I hope, COD franchise and OW being revived again. Its a dream come true but the likely chances of Bobby getting kicked is slim. Apparently Activision board of directors are on his side. His grace period on saving Activisions' asses back when the company was struggling to get profits in the 90s is long gone

[@firandrew]

Damn you must be really young

[@rooskyv]

@@firandrew 24 actually, I only stumble to online games in 2017 because I don't have access to it before.

[@mephisto_ow]

My guy doesn't even mention the 1.5 years of double shields

[@dwoodward931]

I've played so much Overwatch. Like, probably 4-6k hours worth or more between 6 accounts. There's so many variables and that's yes another one of them.

[@TrueGamer22887]

Bc they plagiarize all of their videos and don’t actually know what they’re talking about

[@AnimalPuff]

They just had to mention GOATS but not a more relevant issue like double shield, and what made people use double shield (DPS power creep)

[@mage3690]

Or an even more relevant issue, the reason both double shield _and_ GOATS were meta: Brigitte. Broken hero. They should straight up yank that shield right off her arm and remove AOE heals from her kit, then I'll be happy with her power level.

[@nikkofabi]

Mark Cuban foresee the downfall of this game’s esports scene coz of the meta keeps on changing. Imagine Chicago bulls at their record breaking season, then suddenly you change the rules against their team’s strengths during the playoffs. Thats not fun

[@RandommBoyo]

Overwatch had an amazing potential, looked really great and overall just such a good game, but Blizzard fucked up their chance so bad

[@Whatever-tu7ue]

Sure Blizzard screwed it up but the players are the worst part now in my opinion. The woke crowd ruined it for me.

[@xailyn1]

@@Whatever-tu7ue truth

[@quantavious69420]

Even though the game is basically dead i will always remember this game as it is the first fps game i really started to love and get addicted to but it really makes me sad how fast this game is dying

[@cennix]

me too :)

[@SuperMisteryMan01]

@Keshuel I don’t think the game is bad, there is a lot of bad things around it like you say about having nothing to back it up and even recently the game itself just lost its soul. I picked it up about a year ago and I love the game although I have dropped it recently for awhile. The community I remember was horrible tho. I’ve played COD my whole life as my first FPS games but no games were as toxic as times in has in OW

[@TheManofThings777]

GOATS was really the turning point, I think. Before that, people would always say "I'm quitting OW" but they would never actually do it. Then Brig and GOATS came and they actually did.

[@enn1924]

This comment is so funny to read with no context

[@Hhhh22222-w]

Goat wasn't bad lol, it highlights the balancing issue and instead of fixing blizzard miles creative roles and forced everyone into a 2/2/2, that made every game felt the same and all the strats were gone

[@joeandrew8752]

Balance wise it was chipped away with each defining meta. Mercy meta was terrible, GOATs was annoying and ended up creating 2 2 2 but then you had people going into tank to get faster ques as dps and players were still not switching to optimal comps, whether the game should be designed that way that not playing optimally causes this is a separate discussion. They tried to do rotations of characters but it ended up creating a recycle meta. They reworked shields to get rid of double barrier but orisa and sig felt terrible afterwards. Echo was released as DPS when the game did not need more dps, bastion was basically a joke for majority of overwatch 1 and symetra never really found an appropriate role in the game besides gimmicky uses of her teleport.

[@TheManofThings777]

@@Hhhh22222-w Nah Goats was absolutely terrible. Every game was boring as hell because it was basically just waiting until either your Brig or your Zen messed up somehow. No one died, no fun characters could be played, it was a horrendous experience.

[@derricklindsey140]

What are goats? I mean yeah an animal or Michael Jordan… but in overwatch terms?

[@infinitemausoleum721]

See, I remember the best moment I had with Overwatch was pushing a payload as a solo Roadhog in 2018. Everyone else were supports or DPS, they were off playing for kills rather than the objective. The rhythm of fighting other players and pushing the payload was amazing. It was a hilariously off-meta match, but I'll seriously take off-meta games over "Both teams play meta and the one with better timing wins" any day.

[@AvengerofWarcraft]

I had a similar experience. Thing is, the other team were really blocking the road but I managed to sneak in and push the payload by myself. I just kept laughing the entire time because neither my teammates nor the enemy team knew that I was backdoor'ing and honestly, it felt stupid enough to work. By the time both sides knew what I was doing, my team already won.

[@rainbowman8923]

I long for the days of picking whoever you want in quick and both teams being one with the chaos. Twas fun and even if you lose, you can say that it was a game you enjoyed. There are times where you could chill with the enemies, but now they push the competitiveness even is supposed casual games...

[@meepmeep8875]

I remember I hard spammed Symmetra (through her several reworks) and Lucio like crazy. The solo aces by abusing wallrun angles people didn't know about and protecting the payload or Target area by spreading out my turrets to alert me to where people were. I remember squaring up with 5 of my friends, calling enemy movement the second a turret was destroyed or activated. Or turning into a surprise DPS due to my high mobility, that could flex support when the enemy team wasn't having any of my shit Those were the days And I miss them

[@roman2499]

I remember in 2016 a good buddy of mine said I should try Overwatch because he himself has been looking forward to the game since 2014. June 2016, I bought the game and after that I fell in love with the game and played it actively until mid 2019 and then the problems with the game came along as well as the controversies at Blizzard. It's sad to see such a good game today is completely dead. I will miss the 2016-mid 2019 time.

[@elbalerto]

For me, what really killed Overwatch was the Blitzcheung incident. OW's lore revolves around optimism for a better future, with hope playing a big role in the messaging. Blizzard's heavy-handed bans and blatant simpering toward China's authoritarian regime ruined that illusion for me. From that point on, narrative dissonance kept hitting me whenever I hear any of OW's heroes voice lines. Tracer, Mercy, Winston, Zenyatta, Lucio--Blizzard's actions turned them into hollow mockeries of what they represented.

[@DzinkyDzink]

But shouldn't things get darkest right before the dawn?

[@jasonrebamontan5351]

how the hell that killed overwatch? blitzcheung is from Hearthstone. the thing that really killing overwatch little by little is the lack of content for over the past 2 years. no new heroes, no new game modes and no new compe maps

[@nicka.9057]

@@jasonrebamontan5351 Hearthstone is also blizzard....

[@a.c6761]

Yeah maybe.. China will defund what they own in Blizzard. But OW is another issue

[@jasonrebamontan5351]

@@nicka.9057 oh yeah. but have different fan base

[@crayonchomper1180]

more importantly: how the hell is TF2 still alive nearly 4 years after it's last major content update

[@samuffert]

"I have no idea!"

[@pramanabudiman9761]

Easy answer: The community. TF2 can still alive because of its fan. Not only the fans just played the game or making fan works about it; they also made community servers, events, mods (even the origin of game was once mod for Half life 1) and even cosmetics that not only can get into the game by vote, but there even an entire TF2 economy just for the weapons, paints, cosmetic etc. So in the nutshell, TF2 has been carried by the community during the developers absent.

[@OverG88]

As one reviewer said: TF2 didn't reject its absurdity. It accepted it, and built around it.

[@e2rqey]

H a t s

[@chippedgoat]

Tf2 ain’t alive tho it’s more in a comatose state

[@zepiereite]

7:06 I remember seeing this live a long time ago. Seeing this again and rewatching the swap happen as soon as they saw the enemy team on GOATS tore a hole in my heart, the same one from all those years ago.

[@paulgibbon5991]

The frustrating thing was that nerfing the tanks and healers rippled down to casual play.....where it was hard to get anyone to play those roles in the first place! So many games of playing Healer Chicken in character select.....

[@lycanmark]

This would never have been a problem if they had just add a ban system that the players picked.

[@zepiereite]

@@lycanmark but nah we got a wheel of misfortune

[@lycanmark]

@@zepiereite ya I don't know why they ever thought that was a good system.

[@MrMoustachioo]

I think a lot of players didnt quite get this moment. They swapped precisely because NYXL was running winston with goats, which does a whole lot better into the pharah comp of houston. If Houston saw NYXL on reinhardt, they wouldve 100% stayed and tried this composition.

[@requix11]

I really miss 2016-2018 OW. Such a fun game.

[@maniczxc123]

This video made me genuinely sad. I loved this game. I played it since beta. When Bastion had that front face shield, when lucio can 1v1 any dps, when sym was a support that could give a single person some armour and many more. To watch it slowly die, to see how disconnected blizzard was, to see my love for the game turn into frustration... this made me so sad that I am beyond words. I loved Overwatch but its just that, past tense, I think it is time to move on.

[@harleyyyyy2706]

same bro its sad

[@skipmanghondarg]

I miss utility role man :(

[@Goldman200]

Symmetra dps! Moira dps!

[@Titi-zm7gr]

I would call it undead... It's not alive but not dead either, just... Roaming around brainlessly

[@construct8295]

arguably, that’s even worse. Hatred is much more preferable in media than apathy

[@keonkla]

So like tf2 then lool.

[@Titi-zm7gr]

@@keonkla Yep, overwatch wanted to be like tf2 so bad that they even ended up in the same state LMAO

[@gumidumi4604]

@@keonkla is tf2 dead

[@Uncle-Ruckus.]

Welcome to tf2

[@malohn2068]

I will never understand why no gaming company ever, when balancing anything. Do tiny incremental changes. Oh is Mercy too op? OK her healing per second changed from 12 to 10. And then wait a month n check her win rate. But no, blizzard always overnerf and overbuff and it seriously contributes alot to a game losing players

[@felathar1985]

Dota 2 does it right. Everyone is overpowered so no one is

[@maximusorbis2548]

@@felathar1985 that’s what overwatch used to be before they started adding more heroes and displaying it as a “competitive game”

[@yyn886]

Always one extreme to the other

[@xvingar6318]

I swear competitive games aren’t even fun why would you turn a fun game into a sweat fest

[@dragonenvy7768]

Overwatch was one of my favorite games ive ever played and it peaked in the first year. After that it took a sharp nose dive with every new hero they added throwing off the balance and the metas. Brig was in my opinion the main turning point in killing the game because she filled every role. Instead of properly balancing her, they changed every other character around her and it threw everything off. Before you could run any comp and rotate between dps. It wasn’t run goats/double shield or you lose. It hit a point of becoming boring. Last time i played the game was so unbalanced from powercreep and the dps getting big buffs to shred shields and tanks to compensate for double shields so supports couldnt out heal damage and it forced supports to dps instead of healing or else they would lose. Thats what made the game fun, the balance of ever role and knowing that if you are good on your role, you are going to bring a big impact to the game.

[@PikangsFutaba]

There was a short time I played the game when it was still decently balanced, but shortly after, I sold my Ps4 copy as I grew bored of the game as the bad balances didn't allow me to play without potentially been kicked out of the games, it's sacrifice allowed me to get other games I really liked like the vanilla version of Persona 5.

[@asmrtpop2676]

Brig fitting multiple roles was fine imo until they started forcing role selection. Role selection being mandatory ruined QP for me :(

[@AccipiterSmith]

Brigs was a huge trashy mistake on behalf of the former Overwatch fans out there.

[@BumBumTheBarbarian]

since i started playing overwatch like a year and a half ago the biggest update to the game was changing soldiers recoil and its just been so sad

[@deso2]

thats why soldier feels so weird playing now

[@Griza_bella]

You missed the honeymoon phase of the game. Honestly one of the best games I have played then it just crashed and burn.

[@harleyyyyy2706]

so true tho

[@skyefox5796]

@@Griza_bella ikr, like the first few seasons were some of the most fun I've had in a multi-player game ever, it was probably the first game I ever no lifed.

[@DevinDTV]

@@skyefox5796 yeah because when you're young you have no standards. OW was always retarded. it's an FPS MOBA, it makes no sense. ultimates are dumb, abilities are too powerful, mechanics are too limited. that said, it's in a great state right now relatively speaking. i mean sure i'd love to go back to the days before doomfist and orisa, but in today's OW almost every hero is viable.

[@phoboswhiplash]

Lets go back to no restrictions, those full-Torbjorn matches were the solution

[@TheDiion_]

Torbjorn Gaming

[@deathshade7death475]

Torbjorn gaming

[@lesackboy9914]

Torbjorn gaming

[@the_shadow_clasher]

Nazeem gaming

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

Torbjorn Gaming

[@thelordjesuschrist5062]

I loved this game and I used to play it everyday with my friends. But as soon as echo was in the game and Jeff left all my friends have stopped playing and I’m all alone and every time I play this game I just feel depressed. So good one blizzard

[@3takoyakis]

they did said echo was LAST MAJOR UPDATE before team shifting focus to OW2 which so far the progress are adding PVE and ruin more core mechanic that player love

[@HighQualityLeftover]

if you think you can trust blizzard with ANY game, you are living in a dream world. Giving such a toxic company money should be illigal anyways

[@rory8182]

SC2 seems to be alive for the most part, but I think that is since they have let the fans make the content instead

[@semenstainsthemountaintops9497]

Wdym toxic they will be employing 50% more women and non-binaries, if anyone's toxic then its you for accusing a racially diverse lgbt friendly corporation of being toxic... jokes aside they focus too much on bullshit like nonbinary employees to care about making a good game lol

[@rory8182]

@@semenstainsthemountaintops9497 I was about to say, any company that has to actively put effort into ensuring that they are diverse is doing something fundimentally wrong

[@Invenbel]

Overwatch is a genuinely interesting discussion topic to me because it shows that an esports first design just isn't guaranteed to work and is actually quite likely to fail for a simple reason: It wasn't designed to be a fun game before anything else. The peak of overwatch as an experience was in the beta when everything was new, novel, and not very well balanced. Thinking about it, it's kinda weird to design like that because no major sport or esport I'm aware of started from the idea of "hey let's spend 5 billion dollars on this weird ball game so people can watch us throw balls at hoops or whatever". It's skipping a crucial step where the community/public decides it's a game worth that kind of investment, not whoever made the game before it's even finished. Consider other popular esports like Smash Bros or just any fighting game. Many of those games never intended to be esports superstars, many of those fighting game franchises started as fun arcade cabinets and Smash in particular never had any real aspirations to be a major competitive game. But the key difference is that people *wanted* to play those games in a highly competitive scene to show off their skill and that's how their competitive scenes grew into actual global fighting game tournaments. There are also things to be said about how basing some of your games design around Dota/LoL is also a terrible idea because while yes those games do have big competitive scenes, the vast majority of players I've seen talk about those games in any capacity are absolutely miserable. Having a vast pool of characters while cool on paper is also incredibly difficult to balance and becomes exponentially harder every time you add a new character. This is why TF2 went the route of adding new weapons instead of characters because if a class is performing way too well with a particular item they can just nerf that one item without affecting the entirety of the character or how that character interacts with every other character.

[@connormclernon26]

Well spoken. None of the truly great eSports games began as eSports. They all began as fun games first and foremost. Without the organic growth of communities, you won’t get an eSport. Smash was first and foremost a fighting game meant for people who weren’t dedicated fighting game players, but over time, people got better, and better, and better, and eventually, they had a thriving eSports community, even against everything Nintendo threw at them for daring to play in a way that they didn’t want. All of this to say that Overwatch was doomed by trying to capture the eSports crowd

[@whitegoose2017]

​@@connormclernon26 A game has to be fun on some level or it will never break through to the mainstream. I remember Overwatch being marketed as this next competitive big esport and the competitiveness aspect is embedded into every part of Overwatch. It's in quickplay, arcade, etc., all of it. Hidden matchmaking rating which makes forces you to play with high ranked opponents, if you played well. Sounds good in practice, right? Try playing with your actual friends who aren't as good as you are. The nature of this game makes its impossible to hard carry, because the enemy team is just more functional and understands how to work together better. So, you'll never get to play a decent game of Overwatch with your lower ranked friends. Kinda hard to play with your friends who cannot even reach platinum in competitive, but are expected by Blizzard to do well against Diamonds/Masters just because your team has one MASTER player. This in ARCADE by the way..

[@Straviradius]

Overwatch was never an eSports first design from the get go. It was designed to be a game to grab casual players from CSGO and LoL/DOTA. Then Blizzard tried to force an eSports scene and the game fell apart at the seams because it was never designed well as an eSport. Blizzard forced eSports on all their games (HotS, Hearthstone, and Overwatch) because they were trend chasing due to eSports raking in money. It was never about trying to establish an eSport. It was about making money.

[@keatono8174]

Essay

[@mendBOT]

@@whitegoose2017 honestly, even climbing was hell because of that, one bad player could ruin the game of 5 others EXTREMELY easy and if there's something you can learn with Dota/LoL is that this should never happen to get a healthy game.

[@8bitcorgix]

This game has a really special place in my heart, it is the first aaa game i had with physical cd, i still remember the s1 of ranked where i met my 5 stack and wanted to go tourney but now not even a single one of them are online. Thank you for all the memories and i hope yall fine and healthy

[@manfromthepast7836]

THATS SAD MAN I FEEL THAT :(

[@MsDestroyer900]

This made me feel old

[@jdoggydogg]

Honestly, as crazy as this sounds, the game kind of died for me when they implemented hero limits. I remember when the game first came out, just having a blast at some of the stupid things that would happen organically, like getting into an all Winstons match and just having 12 players jumping around like mad men. I know that they eventually brought it back in Arcade mode or whatever, but by that point it had already soured me.

[@maltesers1239]

Couldn’t agree more. Getting the enemy team to cooperate and going 12 reins or 12 winstons were some of the best memories I had of that game

[@tiny3432]

@@maltesers1239 oh yes you still have that mode alright. If you're willing to wait at your device for more than 3 hours without leaving cause yknow, you always find that match when you're afk and get booted from it. I once made & ate lunch, drove out to collect a parcel from the post office, grabbed some groceries for dinner, prepped the food for dinner, and I still hadn't found a match (4.5 hours)

[@martymar2113]

I remember ppl were begging for this

[@Peacht4n]

@@martymar2113 People were begging for this because they didn't want to take the accountability of their team losing. But also, a lot of people would ONLY pick DPS constantly because they wanted to play a shooter more than a team-game. You'd end up playing a game with a high damage output with 0 healers. I hated the hero lockout too but the people who refused to pick healer (or me having to play healer EVERY match) kind of caused this

[@trollingisasport]

NO.

[@YayapLives]

Honestly, with the chaos of TF2 combined with the splashy effects and complex abilities of a MOBA Overwatch never really struck me as an eSports game to begin with.

[@searra3158]

I love Overwatch to death and I’m patient to give the devs time to properly develop Overwatch 2. But dude with the activision blizzard lawsuit, no new content (understandable), papa Jeff leaving, it’s hard to be a Overwatch fan. I still believe in the devs, love the characters and universe but its just sad to see a game you love die out.

[@JayceSyn]

I feel you I missed loving Overwatch

[@rh7474]

Idk why people seem to love Jeff so much when he oversaw much of what people complained about.

[@davidkolak7923]

honestly, i stopped playing because all my friends did but it was also due to adding the 2-2-2 role lock, i cant play dps without 20 minute wait times. Also I'm scared of the price tag on ow 2 Im not a rich person and i don't wanna spend on a game i already own

[@jacobdaniels3246]

@@davidkolak7923 ow2 is free, only the pve content will cost money

[@phantom498]

That’s how I feel about Rainbow six siege, but I still feel like siege has dedicated consistent fanbase. I don’t feel like they’ve fallen off as hard as OW though

[@ravinous]

"Overwatch wasn't a shooter" It never was, it was a First Person Hero Game. The problem was Blizzard tried to appease the CS:GO crowd and didn't lean into the action oriented game play they had going for it. So pulling in two directions they lost everything.

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

Like the game already had a much lower aiming requirement than its obvious inspiration Team Fortress 2.

[@GuyIdiot]

@@latrodectusmactans7592 and then blizzard just doubled down on no aim required characters lmao

[@gwarfanatik]

@@latrodectusmactans7592 TF2 players really can never get over OW. It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[@jdrmanmusiqking]

Same happened with Destiny. It was never a pure shooter but the CoD kids didnt know how to use abilities so "OMG EVERYTHING IS OP!" So Destiny 2 was just a CoD clone. Freaking disappointing as D1 really has you feeling like a god-slaying Space Wizard with a gun. In D2 ya feel more like Master Chief: a super soldier instead of a freakin planet collapsing Guardian of Light Companies should just stick to their vision instead of pandering to certain demographics

[@keonkla]

LMAO the hilarious thing aobut that is then Valorant spawned. As a ex over watch player i wouldint be surprised if a majoirty of the over watch fan base that left the game came right to valorant. Atleast Valorant know what its trying to do.

[@iminumst7827]

I was a Overwatch beta player and a fan for a while. The game had a solid start, but needed some serious work to stand the test of time. What I DIDN'T expect was Blizzard to make the game worse over the years. Overwatch just became not fun casually or competitively due to questionable balance changes, game design philosophy, and also the community. It's actually the last game I played competitively, the exhaustion of Overwatch killed my enthusiasm for esports perhaps forever. I still hop on occasionally to mess around with workshop modes, but god forbid I play the regular game now. It just makes me sick to my stomach. Now I just go back and play some classic class-shooters like TF2, Moviebattles 2, and I just have actual fun and make lasting memories even now.

[@Sela1]

I agree with everything you said. Basically the game became stale, the key issues were not addressed, and the lore that was hinted about never fully fleshed out. Every new meta became a chore, and usually matches would always play out more or less the same. Casually people would just dive in senselessly. Used to play counterstrike for a shorter period than Overwatch and I remember a great deal of my Counterstrike matches and various situations that happened during the games, while at the same time I don't remember anything from my Overwatch games....

[@Sela1]

Oh yeah, also, GOATS.. I mean, the problem was that often you had an optimal meta composition and no matter what you wanted to come up with, tacitcs wise, nothing was better then the current meta. So either play the meta or lose... Horrible balance and design.

[@jxstnnnnn]

only think keeping overwatch relevant is the porn

[@steven9674]

ngl i been wanting to check this game out for years they shouldve went f2p around the same time rocket league did couldve generated a bit of hype

[@crowz6247]

Or fuck, even dropping the price. It's still like $40 unless you buy second-hand.

[@Cybrtronlazr]

@@crowz6247 40? It has been 20 dollars for a LONG time you are misinformed. They DID drop the price, like 2 years ago. It is only 40 dollars if you want some not even that good exclusive skins in the legendary edition of the game.

[@henrikfredsbendixjensen8549]

@@Danny-nn8bo It WAS a hella good game at one point

[@chickenmorechicken7138]

@@crowz6247 bro Christmas sale puts it at 5 dollars every year. That's how I got it

[@mosab_faozi]

It is a good game, but I wouldn't recommend it for new people at the current state. Any amount of money to pay for it is too much at the moment.

[@Wolfpack7000]

Overwatch was supposed to be the TF2 killer, but the biggest difference between TF2 and Overwatch is that TF2 is fun.

[@ZifaVill]

Agree

[@philithegamer8265]

TF2 is still the GOAT over a decade later... even when Valve neglects it.

[@ZifaVill]

@@philithegamer8265 valve is playing with our feelings, with our memories, when i want to remember tf2 i want to remember the good times, the funny little moments, not these bots or these shity new cosmatics that look like each other, tf2 is more then just a game

[@racmanov]

Overwatch has the most incompetent out-of-touch leadership and even more out-of-touch incompetent balance team. And the worst is that both of those act like they know everything even when they totally fck up

[@TheGreatDanish]

That classic Blizzard attitude of "You think you do, but you don't." Daddy-Blizzard knows best, just open your wallet and give us your money!

[@jfayiii]

This has been the way of things since back in the early fortress days. The people making the calls are in it for the money, not for the game. Then they sell their shit/soul/company to a Chinese poultry farm. Looking at you, Paul Wedgwood. hannibal here hasn’t forgotten.

[@fnfn9229]

Clearly you have never played league of legends

[@AzoiatheCobra]

Honestly, Overwatch was a MOBA masked as a FPS. And after playing league for years, heroes of the storm for years and smite for years... every MOBA had a "Tank Meta" at one point. And in all of them it was somewhat resolved. But Blizzard aldready had to resolve a "Tank Meta" problem, they should have known better.

[@Lichtboys]

Finally, A video I can understand fully. I don’t play csgo or siege but like watching these videos cause they’re entertaining. Knowing the game fully makes them so much better

[@diamondcrafter78shane68]

Funny how everyone hyped it as the "TF2 killer" yet it died before TF2 did.

[@LångemansLya]

This

[@dendi9883]

Tf 2 will never die,even when gaben didn't care about the game anymore

[@gogetablue7905]

Yeah this is why I'm laughing right now

[@gogetablue7905]

Its Quality over quantity. Doesn't matter if Overwatch community is more larger than the TF 2 community. When Overwatch was released, I knew it won't last that long and I was right

[@JoshP86]

But TF2 is an awful game bruh xD

[@ivan39navi]

Honestly I still gotta give props to the Overwatch League for keeping it running despite no new content for years. And I kinda feel bad for the League and its teams. Despite what I feel about the game itself Ill always support the League since they are just as impacted as us.

[@syahareensharani6869]

11:12 Mr does that mean Overwatch is back Winston: Yes, yes we are Meanwhile in TF2: Spy: Gentleman synchronized your death watches

[@philithegamer8265]

TF2 is still goated.

[@saopro21]

I just find it fucking hilarious how the "TF2 Killer" died before the the game it was supposed to kill.

[@crowz6247]

I mean, Overwatch isn't actually any more dead than TF2. It still has a shit ton of players every day, and unlike TF2, isn't a minefield of servers filled with hackers. Overwatch is just much smaller than the behemoth it once was.

[@0ff_liv3_37]

Tf2 is dead

[@cwewww]

This is a terrible take

[@timber6059]

stupid take lmao tf2 is infinitely more dead than current ow

[@Fr00stee]

Tf2 has been dead for several years

[@marst91]

The potential overwatch could’ve held, if only they’d stuck to it. It was such a great game at the time, brilliant graphics, great gameplay and being instantly able to find a team. Admittedly, I still play now, but nowhere near as much as I did at release, blizzard honestly haven’t kept it up.

[@Yvädastra]

Overwatch is how I reconnected with a friend from high school during college and was the catalyst that led us to becoming one of each other's best friends. He passed away last year. Sometimes, I see stuff like Destiny 2: The Witch Queen and feel sad that we won't be able to raid like we used to, and other times I see stuff like the fall of Overwatch and I'm glad he doesn't have to see the trainwreck that this once beautiful game has become.

[@LokiMono]

The constant change of rosters is what got me out of the Overwatch League. I grew really attached to some teams and players, like the Shanghai Dragons. They were the only team to NOT score a single win during the season, and I was rooting for them every match, no matter who the opponents were, because I wanted to see them win at least once. Then, they completely changed the team (aside from Geguri), they enventually won but I wasn't feeling invested anymore. The name was the same, but not the players, so why should I be happy ? These aren't the same people that didn't see one win in a season, but a fresh roster of players who I had never heard of before. The teams, the players, and the interactions between them was what made the Overwatch League for me. So when they cut that out, I just quit watching it and never returned...

[@Taygon45]

What if they made breaking shields mechanically demanding? Mei's iceblocks vunerable at the cracks or Rien's shield have a weakpoint at the projector?

[@mage3690]

That wouldn't nerf the modern day issues of double shield and Brigitte. GOATS is no longer an issue because they introduced role lock, which forces every match to have 2 tanks, 2 DPS, and 2 healers. The modern meta is no better for it, however. It's just double shield, with Orisa, Sigma, Zenyatta, and Hanzo throwing enough high damage projectiles down main to just one shot nearly anything that peeks around a corner for more than half a second. Pick flank heros? The supporting cast for this comp is Tracer and Brigitte, you're going to get bashed, headshot, and one-clipped before you could say "boo". Get a DVa and 6 man dive the Zen? Sigma has defense matrix so no one but beam heros can touch the Zen for 2 seconds, and Brigitte can ensure the Winston does negative damage for long enough to bash the DVa and 1shot her into the shadow realm. Double shield vs double shield is even more boring, with both teams rotating shields and the best defensive cooldowns in the game to all but remove all incoming damage until someone walks too far away from their corner and just gets 1shot.

[@Real_MisterSir]

I like the idea, though of course it has some implications to it as well. Perhaps if a tank hero was introduced with an ability kit that focused on higher effectivity the more shields you were facing up agains. Just an example: A primary fire that actually has a pass-through effect, where half your damage passes through shields, and if you pass damage through multiple shields then the dmg number goes up - so running double shield would literally increase your own effectiveness against the shield comp. It could also be some kind of shieldbreak ability that draws strength from the amount of shield damage you do, Symmetra does that to a degree but the beam-style approach is a bit too limited imo. Maybe you have a sort of vampirism effect where you gain health of your own when you do damage to enemy shields - which would be in line with a tank-style nature. This could allow you to get up close with those double shield comps and actually sustain through their spam dmg in a way that someone like Rein can't.

[@mage3690]

@@Real_MisterSir if you make a tank that sustains through double shield spam damage, I think you just break the game. I've seen clips of Hog breather doing negative healing while a double shield comp is focusing him down, and that was without ultimates. Throw a bongo or a window in there, you get things like that clip of emongg going 745-0 in a single shot. Not 0.05 seconds, a single shot.

[@Real_MisterSir]

​@@mage3690 Easy fix is to make it so that the ability doesn't benefit from damage boost. Like Moira orbs for example, or Hanzo's dragon. It wouldn't be difficult to balance at all imo, and when adding more heroes there will be more options so you're never stuck with just two viable comps. The main issue is that there are so few tank heroes in the game rn, so it's relatively easy to learn all their synergies to perfection and easily deduct a most efficient meta. Add more heroes, and there will be exponentially more variables and synergies, making the likelihood of a single comp being the definitive go-to comp very minimal.

[@Mrs.THECOMMUNISTCHANNEL]

so much for *"Overwatch will kill TF2"*

[@HexYan]

I remember the "OW will kill League". Bwahahhahaha

[@WitchYuki22]

@@HexYan Don't act like Riot doesn't also enforce the meta onto players like Blizzard do lol Riot is just smarter with expanding their LCS brand. That being said, I want League to have continued success especially after Arcane because it quarantines toxic tryhards and prevent them from infesting other games lmao

[@eggcelentrat4005]

These days valve is doing it for them

[@HexYan]

@@WitchYuki22 You put a LOT of words in my mouth, mate. I never said that. However, the meta didn't kill Overwatch, it was just a part of it. Lack of updates, lack of care for the game killed it. So don't come at me with this attitude when you know that Riot is taking care of LoL even if they make mistakes from time to time. And btw when you started talking about the meta, right now it's quite great and with tons of options.

[@styxzero1675]

I said this from the beginning, overwatch is not an e-sport game, it never was, blizzard forcing e-sport on it was a mistake to begin with. It's a casual fun game for a bunch of friends playing.

[@pramanabudiman9761]

When you say it, blizzard really designed overwatch as an e-sport game with 6v6 match and players needing to work together to finish a goal. Unfortunately, despite of the success in the released, it entirely different in reality than the early idea of the game mechanic with players butchering the character abilities and nerfing and buffing that keep coming and coming, which ruined the main concept. In conclusion, the idea of making overwatch solely a competitive game wasn't a good idea.

[@3takoyakis]

OW was kind of expected having esport tho, its a FPS game bruh Brawl star on other hands, the dev was dedicated to make the game casual and family friendly (also it was the MOST GENEROUS supercell game EVER) the game was also really simple and the dev was agreed on to not make too much complex brawler bcs it would make player confused *_But smh, i dont know what their management thinking, that focusing and forcing everyone to be competitive was a good thing_*

[@El_Chuchuca]

This, I was one of the people who was yelling in the forums: OWL is a Scam, it won't last, OW itself it's not a competitive game with how the balances are made. People of course bullshitted me when OWL finally launched and it was a blast... then severely declined the year after. Imagine paying millions of dollars to reserve a spot in the OWL, Blizzard marketing strategy worked, but I was sure (as a gamer and a esport fan) that the OWL was condemmed to failure. The competitive scene is made by the fans for the fans, while the main task of the developer is to sustain it... Blizzard was doing the completely opposite.

[@DrFluffyNips]

I was just about to comment exactly the same thing. As soon as they started pushing the OWL and trying to balance it towards those players instead of the majority of casual players, the game died imo. I'm hoping they've learned from the downfall and they'll go back to the casual, chaotic gameplay for Overwatch 2, but I doubt it though.

[@3takoyakis]

@@DrFluffyNips but ppl saying it focused on pro player?

[@Glitch-Phases]

I feel like Overwatch Died when OverWatch 2 was Announced… It was really the FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFEN

[@pank3245]

I still have fond memories of the first month of Overwatch. No hero limits, no competitive, and payload rounds where the attack team was all Torbjorn and the defenders was a Roman wall of Reinhardts.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

don´t forget bastions

[@phoenixflamegames1]

You know, the fact that I saw the title (not the thumbnail mind you) and instantly knew what game it was is saying something.

[@TheRusty]

Bottom line is that Overwatch is an amazingly fun game to play casually, and an absolutely atrocious game to play competitively or professionally. IMO this comes down to the core feature of hero swapping, which makes it impossible to have a lot of features other games take for granted (hero bans, functional scoreboards, customization) which in turn creates hard mandatory-pick metas, which feeds into Blizzard's inability to just leave the game be for more than two weeks without massive patches and re-works and tweaks.

[@per_scep_tivegamer879]

Agree. Unfortunately its not a casual friendly game anymore but its definitely not something that should be played competitively more than half seriously.

[@maximusorbis2548]

You also have to account for overwatch constantly adding new heroes which causes the balance of the game to be all out of whack. The game was designed for the heroes originally created. Also, people don’t like being forced to change their from their favorite hero every 5 months because of a mega change. They should of left things as is

[@penteablo1722]

Casual overwatch is such a pain to play, if u play casually instead of tryharding as a team u will be bent over and stomped by stuff like bastion bunker, pharmercy, dive, hardcounters etc. without a doubt only fun if u play comp

[@maximusorbis2548]

@@penteablo1722 being restricted to 2-2-2 is fun? Waiting half an hour for queue is fun? Overwatch is so broken fundamentally as a game that the developers had to add something as restrictive as 2-2-2 just to try and balance it. It’s shit, the game always relied on spectacle and hype. Class based shooters will almost never be a perfect competitive format.

[@BernardoOne]

sadly they completely killed the casual part too. As someone who always played unranked they killed the game for me when they started forcing people in casual playlists to the same limits as competitive. Playing the meta is goddamn boring and I was playing casual for a reason.

[@mmhm7201]

Blizzard was acting like a teenager who refuses to wear a seatbelt, because he think he knows better. When Brigitte got added, there was an instant backlash and players changing their igns to "DELETEBRIG". Devs didn't listen, so we had goats meta for 2 years, OWL plummeting, and half of the player population gone. Guess what happened after those 1.5-2 years? Brigitte got several nerfs, to the point she became a throw-pick. Could have avoided all of it by using common sense like Riot, and listening to the players who have 5000+ hours in the genre instead of forcing an ideology based on your "amazing" portfolio.

[@mrdonut1231]

Imagine needing to travel 1/4 of the distance to the moon in less than a year jesus christ

[@kronos319]

And needing to travel for an esports. The ONE sport that can literally be played online!!

[@DDracee]

@@kronos319 not really, need a proper lan host to insure 0ping and no cheating i think travelling is fine, just not that much and not on a global scale, keep it regional similar to NFL/NHL/NBA with a big global event once a year lol

[@rimanpele]

@@kronos319 Cs players travel much more than this. Its not about it

[@predictorbibulous3327]

I think it was their arrogance that began their downfall. Complete dismissal of player criticisms (Overwatch and to an even larger extent WoW). They seem to have a knack for forgetting who pays them.

[@harleyyyyy2706]

i have played the game for the last 3-4 years i love it but can definantly recognise how terrible of a job blizzard has done, the game is only good to a specific audience who like what the game is, it used to be liked by everyone they just cut their population in quaters. i really hope they can pull it back but honestly its unlikly If anyone wants to know the more specific reason overwatch died go watch the ‘your overwatch’ video called we finally know why Jeff kaplin left overwatch Fucking ridiculous

[@Ty-v6v-c4r]

One of those people hwo definitely felt like the game didn't go in a direction I could have fun anymore. But could you share, for you, what are some of the dev decisions that cut the population? (I don't mean the latest developments which we only piece together on hindsight)

[@goldeneye1689]

I still remember the glory days of Overwatch, but now TF2 is still just like my childhood

[@goldeneye1689]

Yep, played TF2 as a kid and it's still just as fun