This Is Why Statues Mattered So Much to the Stoics | Ryan Holiday | Stoic Philosophy

[@erichyde2581]

This is a great argument to tearing down the massive staute of Lenin in Seattle.

[@jameson8682]

Why do I feel like the person making this video REEE'd super hard when he read that? 🤣🤣😂

[@RyanHolidayYT]

I'm sorry that you think that whataboutism allows you to change the topic whenever you like. Also sorry that you think I would support a Lenin statue (which by the way, is a private piece of art on private property).

[@kelkil79]

@@RyanHolidayYT Many of the statues that were illegally torn down (You support lawlessness?) like that of Christopher Columbus, had people in the communities begged to have them placed on private property but the Leftist mayors ignored all the pleading.

[@SuperBadwilly]

@@kelkil79 erasing history could potentially be morally bankrupt. However the perception of what these monuments mean is subjective to the individual, and it's my opinion that, if future generations wish to see what not to do, then maybe it serves a purpose to be reminded of where we were, where we are and how can we improve onward. Removal of history is a detriment especially when done out of rage to further a destructive political system.

[@monkeymindbananas9550]

Ha. Really? That really exists?

[@floydparker7772]

There were about 10 million slaves in the Roman Empire in the time of Marcus Aurelius (by comparison, there were almost 4 million slaves before the American Civil War). However, Marcus did not attempt to free them and even implemented stricter laws concerning runaway slaves (although he did protect slaves against certain abuses by their masters). Although I myself agree he was still a great man in many ways, I don’t think that he will past the test of the woke mob, that his statues will survive, or his books will be printed if they have their way. It seems odd to place Marcus on a pedestal while condemning so many other figures in this video, who were also a mixture of good and bad. Fortunately, Marcus was not blamed for the Antonine plague of 165 that killed 5 million people - many woke people today will likely blame him for that too.

[@Gigusx]

There were also 50x (more or less) fewer people on the planet at that time. If the figure of 10 million slaves is accurate, about 15% of the global population was enslaved, in Roman Empire alone.

[@davidhutchison7567]

Bravo.....

[@davidhutchison7567]

Let us also not forget that slavery was on every continent and in every aspect of society then and still as of today it is prevalent in non western societal groups....specifically indentured labor and sex trafficking.

[@reybladen3068]

People back then think that slavery and war was natural. They didn't see them as bad things. If it's natural, it's good, that's how they think. You can't just judge people from the past with modern moral standards.

[@shelbyramin1376]

Yeah I dont support tearing down statues of our forefathers and history. George Washington, Thomas jefferson, Fredrick Douglas, Hans Christian Hel, and Teddy Roosevelt's history is important, and tearing down those statues was despicable.

[@amommamust]

Most of these monuments are NOT to monstrous people, they are about something great a mere sinner did. If we can only have statues of perfect people, then I guess we only get statues of Jesu... Oh, no, they want to tear that down too. Coddling willfully ignorant people in their violent temper tantrum is pathetic.

[@patrickpham6854]

Like Malraux said we judge a society by the moments they put up. We're not coddling anyone we are looking at both sides and trying our best to be fair with our actions. If we were to put up monuments why not put up those who have dedicated their lives to the pursuit of truth and the betterment of our society? Theres plenty of examples Jonas Salk who created yet didn't patent the Polio vaccine because it "belonged to the people". Harriet Tubman, Maurice Hillman, Henrietta Lacks, Katherine Johnson, Norman Borlaug, Nicholas Winton. And that's just recent we can go further back in time to Marcus Aurelius and Seneca and so on. This way should our children ever ask who is this man and why does he have a statue we can tell them a pretty kick ass story about how they made the lives of others better. And maybe they will be inspired to do the same. Lastly the reason that there are no statues of Jesus is because of the agreed separation of church and state. For if we didn't we'd be a theocracy.

[@amommamust]

@@guptadagger896 Rather than replace, I would LOVE to see modern black artists commissioned to add pieces of whatever historic black person they were moved by. i think Malcolm X deserves a monument, for a good start. Perhaps near Lincoln's, to honor how we are making progress while acknowledging there is always still far to go on this crazy quest for liberty.

[@stoicforall]

Not destruction, but reinterpretation, reconfiguration, re-structurion.

[@michag4337]

...the entire civil war was a violent temper tantrum...and you're coddling the ancestors of those who threw it...

[@amommamust]

@@michag4337 History is history, studying and remembering it not coddling. Not studying or remembering it deliberate ignorance.

[@emanonymous]

what if the neo-marxists start burning meditations because marcus aurelius wrote against homosexuality? what would you say then?

[@calin6327]

True. Damn

[@deanodog3667]

Where did he write against homosexuality?

[@RyanHolidayYT]

@@deanodog3667 He didn't.

[@madvlad00]

This is not true. You're referring to the very beginning of meditations where he was praising his adopted father for how he ended his pursuit of boys, in particular young ones. Homosexuality was pretty assumed in Greek and Roman society. You're trying to attack a philosophy that isn't your enemy only because it isn't as judgemental of your own enemies as you'd like. You need to reevaluate your misdirected anger here.

[@charlesbourgoigne2130]

It is not just neo-marxists who censor idea they don’t like. It is also the right that censors what they don’t like. Only solution is free speech

[@ainzooalgown6450]

If we judge our forebares by our morals, no statue will survive. You showed Edward Colston statue being thrown in the river, that was because he was a slaver. But they refuse to acknowledge the good such as the building of schools and hospitals, and essentially Bristol itself. You say we should erect statues to people who's ways we wish to build our society upon, but who gets to decide thet? There are stoics, there are communists, there are capitalist. There are Buddhists. Humans are far too diverse in perspective and many sects unaccepting of others, especially the woke. People who built the civilization we live in should be honoured despite whatever crimes they committed according to our morals. These statues are reminders of our struggles and who we were and how far we've come. I simply don't get it. You're essentially condoning actions and events seemingly antithetical to the virtues of stoicism.

[@FiasaPower]

Fully agree with you. What he's arguing for is a foolish illusion no stoic would ever pass nearby.

[@michag4337]

Except no other nation honors its traitors. We have no statues to the nazi's or the Japanese or the Taliban or ISIS. The preservation of civil war monuments is simply to remind people that there are people in this country who would like to see that south rise again. There is no civil value in honoring a nation that waged war against us. Particularly when the statues in question were built 30-70 years after the war in question.

[@ainzooalgown6450]

@@michag4337 true, I still don't see how that justifies ripping down statues of historical figures.

[@michag4337]

@@ainzooalgown6450 You judge a society by the men it honors. We no longer wish to honor men who fired shots against our people. Simple enough. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong. This falls firmly into the category of subjectivity. I feel one way, but that doesn't mean I'm right. It's open to each how they feel about, and the majority should be heard. I don't much like mob rule, but I can appreciate spending years protesting something the "right" way, being ignored and trying a different route. Temper tantrums rather thrown by a toddler or an adult mostly occur when the individual is not being responded to in a manner they deem appropriate to the seriousness of the complaint. Perhaps if we don't what is going on we should look at the cause of the sickness and stop arguing over the symptoms. (that feels oddly topical in 2020.)

[@friedrich9607]

I don't think this message really has anything to do with Stoicism. How is tearing down statues gonna improve your life or help manage your emotions? Is vandalism really the only thing left in your control, I beg the question?

[@danielcavanagh5463]

I can see how it pertains to stoicism. Seneca was always citing other thinkers, borrowing ideas from them. Epicurus, for example, is cited in Seneca's letters even though Epicureanism was practically a heresy for early stoics. He did this because he saw positive and useful ideas that Epicurus had to offer. That's the point of this video: consider who it is that you're building monuments to. I would ask you: Are Stonewall Jackson, Lee and Davis really people that you admire and would like to emulate? Maybe if you're a general and admire that prowess of these men... but if not then consider why it is that you want to continue venerating these men with statues. The reality is that they betrayed the union and were complicit in the deaths of over 1 million Americans just to protect the economic interests of their homes (It wasn't so much about racism for these old confederate generals, as slavery was a means to an end: keeping the staple of Southern economics strong). No, I'm not saying that it's ok to commit vandalism and no I'm not saying that it's ok to forgot the past (we certainly need to remove these statues in a sophisticated and lawful manner if we're going to remove them at all), but if the totalitarian regime in N Korea fell tomorrow, would you condemn them for tearing down statues of their former leaders and say, "No! it's part of history!"? Think about it...

[@charlesbourgoigne2130]

The answer is: What is the right thing to do? Did the people honored by these statues do the morally right thing or not? Where the consequences of their actions a blessing or a curse? Of course, reality is complex. And what is right is also never 100% clear and to be always discussed. I think the best thing we have for what is right are the human rights. And so, someone who violated human rights would be in the wrong. I would put them in the museum and write down why there were once honored and why you decided to remove them so at least everybody now and who is to come is able to know your reasons and how you judged right vs wrong.

[@danielcavanagh5463]

@@charlesbourgoigne2130 I agree with your statement about putting them in a museum. I certainly don't think that tearing them down and destroying them is helpful or productive; however, I think that the people who wanna keep them erected in public areas are wrong too. It seems like the logical thing, putting them in a museum.

[@danielcavanagh5463]

@O.J Also, Stoicism is not just about a self-centered pursuit of inner peace, it's about changing yourself so that you can better influence society. That's what the Epicureans were all about- increasing pleasure and worrying not about public concerns- but not the Stoics. If it was all about tranquillity, Marcus Aurelius would have probably turned down his role as emperor to seek other ambitions. With that said, Stoics have an obligation to talk about this kind of thing.

[@Gromkiii]

Stoicism is complete opposite of this message. Marcus aureus teaching is - find peace within yourself don't be bothered from object around you. If object around you disturb your emotions you will never be happy.

[@dadawesome784]

Where does it end when we start pulling down monuments that we don’t agree with anymore? What memorials are at risk? Statues? City names? College names? Street names? And who decides when these have become objectionable? A simple majority? A mob? A political party? This is a very slippery slope.

[@dadawesome784]

Why not remove the statue of King Kamahameh from the US Capitol Visitor Center? He brutally and violently conquered other native tribes in the Hawaiian Islands. He was merciless. But his statue is in the US Capitol as well as in Honolulu. Plus many places in Hawaii bear his name.

[@dadawesome784]

Why not rename Malcom X College in Chicago? He advocated violence and was a racist that promoted Black separatism. He was a member of the Nation of Islam that is recognized as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Why should we gave a place of learning names after a violent man?

[@willkellas8986]

It's all about weighing it up it's much more complicated than tearing down a statue of a good or a bad guy. I think, like the video says , it requires some kind of debate. Need to look at the ideas that are celebrated by the statue as well as all the bad things the person had done

[@genxgeek2]

100% spot on Dad Awesome!

[@Kaalokalawaia]

@@dadawesome784 Fuck off. That's how we did things back then. Talk about your own statues don't talk about Hawaiian statues. Hawaiian people still admire Kamehameha. How about the US give us our country back and then you can take the statue down.

[@MisterPol]

I read the book Mediations by Marcus Aurelius during the lockdown and it changed my perspective. So glad to have discovered this channel too

[@nicelongsmile]

Dont know...monsters are one thing.. But for example Thomas Jefferson and George Washington whose statues are under siege as well that is completely different. To judge history by today’s standards is not tricky but insane

[@nicelongsmile]

Situation in the US reminds me of book burning when people lost mind in Europe in the thirties. Supporting savagery and vandalism won’t do good to any of us citizens

[@robertkirby8685]

Yep. With Robert E. Lee or Christopher Columbus I can understand why people want those statues taken down, one was a traitor and the other started centuries of Native Americans getting screwed over. But Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? I mean yeah these they were by those means far from perfect, but they were just men of their time. They still did great accomplishments in their own right.

[@pedrohenriquepinheiro9131]

Even Colombus is debatable

[@robertcervantes9649]

It’s odd that you enjoy and support monuments to slavers, pedophiles, and rapists. These monuments were erected during jim crow and belong in the garbage or, at best, in museums or private homes

[@victorespino5650]

Not always. Hitler. Extreme clear cut example. Then the lines can blur

[@Marcelo-ms4od]

Jesus, I hope this isn't another author going crazy about politics and polarizing their stuff. Get woke go broke. Hopefully Ryan is just expressing his opinion, which he's entitled to same as we all are.

[@chrislrob]

Can you give us some examples of "Get woke go broke"? Is that some kind of white supremacist thing? "Stay sleep" doesn't seem like something a Stoic would say.

[@Marcelo-ms4od]

@Chris L. Robinson Sorry, I won't give any examples, but I just verified that a quick google search will show you what I'm talking about. It's anything but new, this expression's been around for a while. And if you feel the need to rotulate anything that you disagree with as "white supremacist", guess who's the sleepy one here. I doubt stoics would claim that we should burn our books and change our legacy because some of our icons made mistakes. Revisionism is simply stupid. The Romans took slaves, opressed cultures and conquered, yet here we are talking about how brilliant they were.

[@_STNML]

It seems like stoicism and CBT, not tearing down statues, is the real cure to this madness today.

[@michael-jones]

Some arguments I see on here are wild. Vandalism is bad, however I grew up in the US with my school celebrating the vandalism of the Boston tea party. All in the name of liberty. There are extremes to every side. But I hope we can agree that taking down statues of confederates is not extreme. Or taking down state flags that were inspired by the confederates. Part of stoicism is taking care of the entire beehive that is humanity and this video is an argument for that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Ryan.

[@ryfreedman]

This gave me a lot to think about, but that’s what you typically do. Your podcasts, videos, and now I’m onto the audiobooks, have been instrumental in my transformation this year. Recently you ended a podcast with it’ll get better, or it won’t. I laughed out loud and knew I needed to share that sentiment with my friends. Thank you for what you do.

[@threethrushes]

For centuries, the statues of military leaders and statesmen were simply part of history - with no moral value given to them. They were symbols from a bygone era, from which we could learn about the lives, mores, culture, and history of the past. For all of my adult life (b.1976) I never once heard of people wanting to tear down statues (except in the former-USSR, where statues of Stalin and Lenin were taken down.) However, in the blink of an eye, these statues are suddenly so oppressive to certain people, as if they were unable to live a normal life because of a bronze statue of a General from the c.18th century. No, this was not a political act. It was the mob, moving from one object to another with ignorance, anger, and hate as only a mob knows. It was the same barbaric instinct that led the Taliban to destroy the ancient Buddhas in 2001. Welcome to the USA, 2020.

[@jasonarriola723]

This simply isn’t true, there is inherent moral value in the monuments we put up and allow to stay up. In Louisville, Kentucky, where I live, people have defaced statues of confederate officers since long before this year, because they represent racist traitors to the American odyssey. Simply because you are too pompous to be asked to care about what we glorify in this country does not mean everyone is so apathetic, thankfully.

[@rawmean8989]

Any mob mentality based action is extremely NON-STOIC. That’s just me though....

[@genxgeek2]

BOOM!!!!

[@stoicforall]

You’re absolutely right. Ryan is mistaken here.

[@danielcavanagh5463]

Ryan never said that rioting is ok. He merely said that removing the statues might be a wise move. Lee and Davis might be a part of our history, but they are not our heroes. As Stoics, we have an obligation to remain calm in the face of adversity, but we have a duty to ask ourselves what is just or not, as well. So I ask you, why should these statues remain standing and not be relocated (to a museum, for example)?

[@FelipeKana1]

How the hell no one talking about just taking the statues down and storing them in basements of museums for future research?????? Imagine destroying dinosaur fossils just because they weren't vegetarian. Don't erase history.

[@genxgeek2]

BOOM!!!!

[@pheonix373]

Society, not mobs should decide what statues should stand.

[@davidkinoti4051]

Mobs ARE society's unheard voices

[@viceroybear6298]

@@davidkinoti4051 no they don't speak for me and that's the problem

[@pheonix373]

@@davidkinoti4051 there's a reason for that. Empty vessels make most noise. The people of Bristol voted to keep the Colston monument. The mob tore it down.

[@davidkinoti4051]

Imagine getting robbed and beaten one day then seeing people hanging a statue of the perpetrator for all to see. I think that's sick. The mob is on the side of virtue this time if you put yourself in their shoes. Please explain to me with an analogy why those statues should remain?

[@joebauers8031]

David Kinoti gibberish... I’d be SHOCKED if you could name 4 prominent figures in American society, military or otherwise, during the Civil War, without googling it first. But you have no problem wagging your finger in unearned, righteous indignation at better men than you, who are long gone and from a time completely different from the one you dwell in. You are on the wrong side of history. Supporting a fake AstroTurf movement. Simpering weak coward.

[@RexGalilae]

As much as I love your work, Ryan, I think this argument is borne out of misinformation. Robert E. Lee didn't fight for slavery and racism. He fought for his state of Viriginia to which he owed his loyalty as a soldier. So did Stonewall Jackson who was a great man and an inspiration for his men, who was almost certainly a stoic by the way he conducted himself in life. The political landscape of USA pre-Lincoln was extremely fractured. States had way more autonomy and USA was nothing but a loose confederation, somewhere on the spectrum between the EU and the modern USA. If Robert E Lee sided with the Union, he'd be a traitor to his state. If Britain went to war with France, would a Brit be branded a traitor for fighting France?

[@eaglesrule89]

I disagree Robert E Lee and any Confederate is a traitor to the union, I am all for states right but slavery was wrong.

[@eaglesrule89]

Civil war was over slaves period the Confederate's don't even deserve a place in museum same as Nazi's

[@arknal]

I don't think Romains tore down statues of all bad people, look at Nero or Caligula for example there are tons of ancient statues of them.

[@hyleore]

I think the comparison involves realising that people are bad and denying their legacy; are you talking about people who are 'bad' according to our standards or theirs?

[@michag4337]

@@hyleore In my opinion it should be by ours. The statue is for use to see them and honor them, if we as society see no honor in them then we should remove the statue. It's not a political thing it's the intended function vs is it necessary. No one would argue a statue of hitler in berlin is not great, because it's so cut and dry that most of germany does not want to honor that man, that is why they build monuments to the survivors, and the victims. If we judge people by the time they lived in what part of it? back to the hitler analogy a very large portion of Germany supported hilter, maybe not fully 100% of his ideas but they didn't oppose him either, so if it's by their time would a statue of hitler be ok to stand if it was built in 1939? when the country did honor him? But to further the point, non of this has any bearing on the US because 70%+ of our confederate statues were built in 1920's or the 1960's (the 2 largest civil rights movements in US history) and to paraphrase john oliver "if you make a statue about that, at those times you aren't reminding us of our history, you're building a warning sign to send a very clear message."

[@QuestionEverythingButWHY]

"Today I escaped from anxiety. Or no, I discarded it, because it was within me, in my own perceptions - not outside." - Marcus Aurelius

[@chrislrob]

Why did you post this quote? MA is not saying to not have opinions or care about things. Do you think that?

[@rogerlewis1295]

If I was a true stoic, I should not express any emotion for or against this video. But..... Why use this platform to use a personal view to justify the re-writing of history from 150+ years.

[@grigsby4613]

Gottem

[@lukemacgregor3975]

The removal of statues is not a 're-writing of history'.

[@willkellas8986]

Nothing in this video suggests rewriting history u just didn't listen

[@mrqshines]

If anything, this is an ADDITION to history..

[@joana7497]

It is important to notice that that are several aspect and perspectives to every person and situation. One bad thing shouldn't condemn everything. No historical time was the same as today, they are full of negative and no longer desired things, therefore, everything should be condemned. Not.

[@michag4337]

I think we can agree that if hitler had a statue in berlin people would tear it down (they did actually post ww2). Those statue's represent injustice, inequality and unwelcomeness to millions of americans. The only reason to preserve them is if that is message you want to send. that america is for whites, everyone else should be glad the south lost and accept what they get.

[@genxgeek2]

Hmmm...not going to comment on that in full. I’ve been a long time subscriber but looks like Holiday has bowed to the mob. You missed the mark completely. Time to burn your books because I can’t believe or pay for something a hypocrite like you would pen. You should have steered away from politics altogether.

[@mrqshines]

Steered away from politics? Yea.... you need to REREAD the books, not burn them. You cant pick and choose what life throws your way

[@robertkirby8685]

Ok, I understand not agreeing with what he has to say, but burning his books seems a bit extreme. At least give them up on at a thrift shop or something.

[@MrAkura1984]

@@mrqshines Actually, Ryan should reread his own books. If he trully believed what's written there he would not have made this video. It's OK to talk about politics. It's not OK to be a hypocrite and blindly support brain washed vandals who can't tell you what is it they're protesting against and why they're breaking the law in a democratic country in which we must solve our disputes in a civilized way.

[@michag4337]

@@MrAkura1984 Sorry but they aren't brainwashed vandals. If i built a statue to osama bin laden and put it in central park in NYC do you think that would be cool? remember your history and what not, cause you know that guy planned 9/11 so we should honor the memory of that event by building a statue to him so we don't let it happen again, right? Fuck off most confederate statues were built in protest to the civil rights movements of 1920 and 1960 (around 70%) they aren't part of history they're part of a systemic problem that does everything it can to stop the franchisement of anyone who isn't pro white power. MA said "Do what is right: Nothing else matters." Tearing down statues that honor a nation that tried to destroy the US for the sole purpose of preserving slavery, and statues which remind a lot of american's that this isn't their country they just happen to live here, seems like the right thing to do.

[@michaelhoward8332]

Ryan, thank you for sharing your opinion. I think some people who "unsubscribed immediately" may not have mad it to the end of the video. I heard a personal call to action in the end, as always. Personally, I don't believe in allowing crowds to deface and remove property at will, but I would stand by a public decision to shift the focus of our history. Even Auschwitz still stands. Keep the monuments, change the narrative.

[@mrw9513]

Well said, and finally someone who actually watched it properly without any preconceived bias, but with an open mind and speaks complete absolute common sense. You my friend are a true stoic. Best wishes and stay safe and well to you and your family

[@ainzooalgown6450]

I watched it and I disagree with him. I've been learning the stoic ways for only a short time as of now and already the channel that is helping me learn is defending behaviour antithetical to the ways of stoicism that I know. it was unprincipled. That's probably why people have decided to leave this channel.

[@arknal]

"Only a coward is afraid of having an argument" yet here you are not even interacting with comment section to defend your own arguments, pathetic.

[@shway1]

almost every comment I've seen so far raises an issue already adressed in the video, and the few remaining are completely unhinged

[@bernieroche6925]

Bad take. Shoehorning in blm to stoicism is ridiculous.

[@ivan_t9n]

This comment is the best summary of the video. Some good points are made, great figures mentioned, and quotes cherry-picked. But, in the end, it's just a justification of vandalism. In the best case scenario, of poor public management of what monument should remain or not -mostly guided by the same mob rule mentality. Maybe a "Memento Park" like the one in Hungary would be the best middle ground. But tearing apart, sheer destruction, pure chaos? Nonsense.

[@MM-cl7vv]

Thank you Ryan for providing great historical context as usual. Your critics over this video really didn't listen to you. Holiday never said to take down statues of Jefferson or Washington. Considering how long history continues for, let's take down the monuments that don't represent our current values and put them in museums for study and reflection. In their places, we should erect monuments that actually inspire us.

[@Raghav1205]

But it's hard to draw a line on whose statue remains and whose doesn't

[@jameson8682]

This video is an unsubtle manipulation designed to confuse and conflate the issues of tearing down statues of murderous dictators with statues of ANY and ALL American historical figures. True he's not arguing that all statues of American historical figures should be torn down, but the ideology that he's espousing is trying to do exactly that. These mobs don't care whether they're destroying the statues and legacy of Robert E Lee or Abraham Lincoln, they draw no line based on the actions of these men. To these mobs, they are both evil regardless of what they represent. That should be a concern for all Americans because then one must ask what it is that all of these historical figures have in common that they object to, and the only answer that they are all American.

[@ainzooalgown6450]

I listened to the video twice... I deffinatly listened. Unironically, twice as much as I criticized.

[@ainzooalgown6450]

@@Raghav1205 it's not hard, it's damn near impossible.

[@ChrisHolly]

You speak truth not what is always popular. Part of why I adore your teachings and appreciate your work.

[@joebauers8031]

No he’s actually siding with the mob. Which is the obvious opposite of what you said.

[@kylen4701]

100% the woke mob would tear down a statue of Marcus Aurelius.

[@FelipeKana1]

Exactly

[@conorgibson7301]

Why so?

[@michaelscott5382]

100% agree. He owned slaves. Ryan should throw the statue away otherwise he’s a hypocrite. You can’t have it both ways.

[@chrislrob]

I wouldn't. And I'm woke AF. As was pointed out in the video, MA did more in his life than own slaves. He was not famous for being a slaveowner. Or for being a traitor. Or for rebelling against his country to protect slavery. But many of these Confederate monuments are in remembrance of men that are known for virtually nothing else. Nathan Bedford Forrest, Beauregard, Hood, Stonewall Jackson, even Lee himself, are defined by their participation in treason for a slavocracy. Although Forrest is also known for being the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.

[@rodrigom7686]

Trying to justify and validate violence and vices with philosophy is the most impure act I can think of coming from a stoic.

[@liamglackin1358]

Facts

[@nicelongsmile]

I like to how stoic is supposed to stand up in face of a challenge to rise against the mob but considering blm it is just twisting words...

[@Mayllie]

There’s no validation of violence in this video, only an acknowledgement that those who made negative contributions to society as their main legacy should not be left on a pedestal. Also, there is no “purity” in stoicism, it’s a philosophy, not a religion.

[@rodrigom7686]

@@Mayllie Yeah.. there are, see the video again. btw, purity is not an inherent and exclusive virtue of religion. But even so, using a concept, like "purity" as strawman is not gonna work here. And i even not said that purity as a stoic concept. Is my toughts on that matter, not of a stoic. “Keep yourself simple, good, PURE, serious, and unassuming; the friend of justice and godliness; kindly, affectionate, and resolute in your devotion to duty. ” - Marcus Aurelius

[@joebauers8031]

Mayllie you didn’t watch the video I guess

[@MrAkura1984]

Why do some experts in a particularly narrow field (be it science, Stoicism, acting, etc.) think they are better than the rest in terms of morality, ethics, politics, etc. Well, they're not. This video bears witness to my claim. How can you compare destroying a statue of Abraham Lincoln, a fierce opponent of slavery and a great liberator, by a brain washed, incited and well funded mob (people who can't tell exactly against what or who they're protesting) to destrying the statues of some of the worst Roman emperors by the Roman senate (backed by the vast majority of the citizens) BECAUSE those emperors committed horrible crimes and attrocities. I don't think we should ever erect monuments for anyone (that includes the great Martin Luther King and Marcus Aurelius as well), but once a nation decides to erect a monument for a great person, why destroy it? Only the people (through their elected government) can decide to destoy. And even if we all agree that monumnets should be destroyed (even of great individuals) as a general concept (to prevent Cult of Personality) then ALL monuments should be destroyed - both of men and women, black and white people, religious and secular, rich and poor, etc. Unlike a true Stoic, you've succumbed to your fear - fear of not being accepted by the elite, by your peers, by those on who you depend for having and maintaining a successful career and publicity. It is fear that compels you to adopt this PC rhetoric and to support vandals.

[@chrislrob]

"I don't think we should ever erect monuments for anyone (that includes the great Martin Luther King and Marcus Aurelius as well), but once a nation decides to erect a monument for a great person, why destroy it?" Because we didn't put it up because they were a great person, but because we feared them or when we did it we were not being great? The Confederates--at least looked at solely as Confederate military leaders, politicians, or soldiers, were not "great" people. They were traitors fighting to protect and expand slavery. Robert E. Lee's claim to fame isn't that he was the president of a college, but that he was a traitorous general. He doesn't deserve a statue. And the fact that someone gave him one is no reason to leave it there in perpetuity.

[@maggygwire]

Interesting and has made me question my previous thoughts on this which is always a good thing. I still can’t accept the angry, trouble making attitude of tearing statues down and I doubt many of those involved have thought particularly deeply on their actions. We should be celebrating the good and not evil but the balance needs to be right and we should strive to be more educated in order to learn from the massive mistake of history. I worry about the slippery slope of denial and ignorance but as a wannabe stoic I meditate on the vastness of space and somehow it seems a small blip in the blink of an eye.

[@Iroquois2688]

Uh, I have a life size bust of Batman in my bedroom, does that count?

[@RyanHolidayYT]

If he makes you better!

[@richhall1808]

That is a tough call because while Batman's costume is black he most assuredly is white.

[@redpillnomad9847]

I liked Ryan Holiday and followed most of his videos before, but I completely disagree and the fact the is labeling "what stoics would do" using great stoic minds in order to justify his own political view wow not impressed....

[@igorradonjic3679]

This channel should be called the Politically Correct Stoic. According to this woke logic we should destroy statues of Marcus Aurelius. I thought Stoicism was not caring about public opinion or your reputation, but that's all these types care about, they're so afraid of getting attacked or losing their fan base, they just conform to whatever is the status quo at the moment ideologically. He's a coward without integrity, or just very superficial. The Stoics call a spade a spade. They see rational observations as good. In today's climate, they would be condemned as hateful right wing extremists.

[@ezaudafi]

Good on you, Ryan, for doing this video. I see a lot of hate in the comments, but I know this doesn’t phase you. Early in the destatuing movement, let’s call it, I was quite against it. Over the last few months, I have been on the fence about it (I live in Memphis, where some statues have been removed, through the proper legal avenues, not through riots). Memphis also has some of the most tense race relations of any American city. Listening to your video has swayed me to then other side of the fence - these public, state buildings are buildings for the people. ALL people. If the majority of a people in a city have a problem with the monuments that they have to bear witness to daily, I think discussions of its removal should naturally follow.

[@QuestionEverythingButWHY]

"We suffer more often in imagination than in reality." --Seneca

[@deanodog3667]

Seneca was a fraud !

[@danielmaynard6837]

That is well said

[@ahaszsaddssd9931]

@@deanodog3667 Not more than you.

[@spencert1803]

We can’t agree on who is the best of us. That is the root of the problem.

[@chrislrob]

We cant all agree, but do you think that traitorous slavers are the best of us?

[@55Nyad]

Ok so then why not take down the Lenin statue?

[@chrislrob]

Because you literally don't know what you're talking about. And your ignorance is on you.

[@charlesbourgoigne2130]

Actually in Eastern Europe, all Lenin statues were removed ... some even burried; nowadays, they are dug out and presented in museums... Maybe remove all of it to museums??

[@rawmean8989]

Sounds like this guy is saying: Tearing down statues is Stoic!??

[@joebauers8031]

That’s what I heard.

[@GB-eo6fv]

yea his title was misleading on purpose. And then even in the video, he tries to convince you that they cared about statues but according to the content of his video, the title ought to be, "tear down statues & make room for whatever 'society' deems 'virtuous' today."

[@christopherratcliffe4715]

Are you seriously trying to compare American heroes to Commodus and Nero?

[@joebauers8031]

Yes he is.

[@kelkil79]

It's obscene;The lengths these Leftists go to excuse their barbarism.

[@conorgibson7301]

If you’re talking about the Confederates, then how is somebody who fought against America supposed to be one of America’s heroes? Russia likely doesn’t have very many statues of Napoleon or Hitler, these aggressors against Russia. So why should America have statues of those who were the aggressors against her?

[@michaelscott5382]

He’s a hypocrite. Marcus Aurelius owned slaves yet he has a bust on his desk. Wow.

[@ainzooalgown6450]

Apparently so.

[@paulgonzalez5957]

Didn’t Marcus Aurelius own slaves😂? Cancel him too😱?

[@joebauers8031]

He did indeed. This guy is a total hypocrite.

[@mrw9513]

That comment isn't the greatest counter statement. As times change, as does our perceptions on morality. They also used to send children down the mines to work and seen nothing wrong in that, however in todays age we would not allow it to happen now and rightly so. But in them times, things were what they were and no amount of wishful thinking can ever go back and change it, but we can say OK no more and prevent making the same mistakes again. It's called moral evolution, at some point in the future they will question what we are doing on the planet right now, with wars, nuclear weapons and destroying the environment which is the very thing that sustains us. And that's just a few examples. I don't intend to upset or offend you with this comment, just offering a different perspective.

[@janpieterszooncoen2550]

@@mrw9513 No it's a completely justified argument he's making, since this video supports the takedown of various "slave owner" statues, as is depicted multiple times.

[@mrw9513]

@@janpieterszooncoen2550 no it doesn't support the takedown of them at all, I suggest you watch it again without a preconceived idea of what you think it's saying. It doesn't suggest or support anything, it merely asks the question, if a statue that was erected in the past could be a source of distress or offence to people is there any harm in removing it from a place of reverence and celebration and maybe placed into a museum or such like. So it can still be viewed, but not so in your face to the people to whom it may offend. No idea at all how you came to your conclusion. Try watching the video with an open mind if I was you.

[@paulgonzalez5957]

Oh, per BLM and Democrats, I can smash any remaining statues of Marcus Aurelius and get approval from CNN and Nancy Pelosi😂? The author of this video likes his bust of Marcus Aurelius and some people like their Confederate statues...show me the difference😇!

[@Markadown]

This comment section is illuminating.

[@williamwallaceg2627]

Tearing anything down in mob fashion is inappropriate always. Have the mental strength to go about doing everything the right way. Mobs are uncontrollable by definition. Mob rule is uncontrollable by default.

[@chrislrob]

We celebrate the Boston Tea Party where a mob of American colonists, in an act of political protest, attacked a privately-owned ship and destroyed its product (and let's be honest, surely looted some for themselves). It is in EVERY American grade-school history book as a positive example.

[@MrAkura1984]

​@@chrislrob That's because these people were Americans and they wanted to disconnect from anything British. That was a war of independence. The protesters on the other hand want to disconnect from anything American. If they want independence from America they should not leave on that "stolen" land and that American country and just immigrate to Africa. Some had already done so and now live in Liberia. At the end of the day, America is America and the UK is the UK and those countries owe all their progress and what they are today to their founding fathers. You want something else? No problem. Don't destroy the old - simply disconnect. Just as those Bostoners were considered criminals by the UK, the mob of today whould be considered criminals by the US. If they don't like the US and want independence - be my guest. It didn't work that well for Liberia or Zimbabwe or Haiti. But as long as you're part of America, you must honor they founding fathers - who indeed were among the most moral people of their times, despite having committed crimes by modern standards - jult like the great Marcus Aurelius himself (who was a slave owner, a mass murderer, an occupier, a warmonger) yet despite all that he was also a very moral, smart and beneficial ruler when compared to others during his times.

[@chrislrob]

Are you American? Usually, I wouldn't ask this, but you clearly don't know what you are talking about. The American colonists did not leave the "stolen" land of America. Those criminal "Bostoners" WERE part of what we think of as the Founders. We honor their "criminal" activity. I believe we'll honor this "criminal" activity, too. Many American colonists had been born and raised in America, and had never traveled to England. George Washington himself never set foot in Europe in his entire lifetime, just as many African-Americans have never been to any country in Africa. So even presuming this is an attempt at "independence" which it simply is not--and you should know that--to be like the American colonists they would have to stay in America. You don't know what you are talking about. Your whole post is basically a "Go back to Africa" rant and is best responded to by stoically saying go to hell.

[@BruceHurley]

​@@MrAkura1984 I appreciate your perspectives. We were not Americans when we took up arms against England-we were a part of England just as the South was a part of the Union before the Civil War. Had the South won, the newly established Confederacy would be celebrating their "Independence Day" just like we do. Why aren't you advocating for the position that the colonies should have honored their "founding fathers" in England? The answer is simple: it's expedient to view our favored history as just while vilifying the historical experience of others. Our founding fathers were traitors to their fatherland in the same way that leaders in the South were traitors to the United States. That's not a rationalization for the actions of the southern states that led to the Civil War, but rather a re-framing of the narrative in a more accurate historical context. The protesters (including me: a 56-year-old white man) don’t want to “disconnect from anything American.” They want to raise up America to the promise of its most noble ideals. They don’t want “independence from America” but rather an integration of all people into the best opportunities that America has to offer (the benefits that I’ve enjoyed by default my entire life). Nobody is obligated to "honor the founding fathers." On the contrary, it's our mandate as Americans to question authority, update ideologies for modern application, and continue to hold our leaders, our fellow citizens, and our ancestors accountable for their beliefs and their actions. I don't think we necessarily need to "destroy the old," but we don't need to glorify all of it, either-and that's what public monuments do. The solution seems simple: relocate the most problematic monuments to museums before righteously indignant Americans take matters into their own hands and (metaphorically) throw them into Boston Harbor. Which historical figures should be honored and which relegated to museum status is a discussion we should take up with enthusiasm because the answers are not always easy. But what we should NOT do is dismiss the entire process as an attempt to "erase history" or "destroy the old." We have not just the right, but the obligation to determine if our public monuments represent the current ideals of our nation.

[@KeeganIdler]

Villains and heroes are quite complicated in the real world. But I suppose if you want to use the kindergarten version of history then it’s pretty easy to know which statues to tear down. I’d bet that soon enough we tear them all down. Or maybe we will just be left with the people obscure enough to not know they had human lives.

[@charlesbourgoigne2130]

I think it‘s best if the statues were removed to a museum and you write down why you did it so future generations can understand it.

[@edwardtomczewski3819]

Ryan, I am saddened. Today, I had watched a video, expecting to hear thoughts that would assist me in pursuing a way of living, leading to tranquility. Instead, I viewed a political commentary. I appreciate your videos, and will still subscribe. Unfortunately, I will need to review them for any underlying political tones, removing them from my reflection.

[@dustypatt1980]

You are pandering for views

[@clsaloha1100]

Excellent! Bravo👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@opflorin89]

I am disappointed that you taken this route, using controversial events to make a video that maybe will bring more views. I follow you for your caracter, and when I get the feeling that you don't create content for the sake of creating good content and you are doing it for your own selfish good, it becomes dull, with no value. Take care, hopefully you will come back to the videos filled with value that you usually do.

[@isesise2658]

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson

[@philosophycoaching8002]

what does this mean

[@k2alltheway]

This was great.

[@joebauers8031]

A leftist Stoic? Weird...

[@richhall1808]

I didn't know there were communist "stoics".

[@chrislrob]

I'm a Stoic. A "woke" one. Not a very good one, but certainly a woke one.

[@genxgeek2]

WiseG33k I’ve been there too over the years until recent events. Is presently called American aka Republican! =)

[@thinkingzoomer8037]

For everyone saying this video is too political: Philosophy is almost always political. Philosophy influences political thought and virtues of philosophy can are often meant to be or just can be applied to politics. This includes stoicism. Lessons in stoicism can be politically applied and I would say SHOULD be politically applied. For example, the dichotomy of control can say a lot about terrorism and how politicians should treat it. It can even say a lot about crime. This is just the way philosophy is.

[@robertkirby8685]

One the most prominent stoic figures was emperor of Rome for god's sakes. Doesn't get more political than that.

[@thinkingzoomer8037]

@@robertkirby8685 yeah, exactly!

[@MrAkura1984]

1. Philosophy is often driven by political events but by no means dependent on or relies on politics. 2. Being political is one thing. Contradicting oneself is another.

[@HenryHale]

Those who want to honor traitors to our country should privately finance a museum for them. Society is speaking and is saying we do not wish to honor the worst cases of the American experience, but, rather, we honor those who have fought to see that America lives up to the words of its Constitution. My tax dollars are not meant to honor traitors, fools, white supremicists, or any other form of bigot. This should be the default position of all who are working so that this country can stop talking about being exceptional and start, through actions, being exceptional.

[@joebauers8031]

I bet you couldn’t name 5 important figures in America during the time of the Civil War without googling it first. But your opinion matters...🙄

[@HenryHale]

Why would you choose to come on this thread and make yourself look so foolish? There are plenty of low quality sites to spread your ignorance.

[@karlalan3806]

@@HenryHale the fact is that he is true. You don't study history that's why you side with the mob. You will be next

[@johncunningham5137]

Oh wow. Politicizing your brand is destructive to your brand. Just ask Gillette or the NFL. Adios.

[@robertkirby8685]

Cause I guess this is the first time philosophy and politics intermingled.

[@johncunningham5137]

What part of my point do you need to have described to you?

[@robertkirby8685]

@@johncunningham5137 Except that this isn't a commercial by a company trying to sell you a product, it's a video by someone offering their opinion on current issues and using their philosophy to interpret it. You're free to not agree with what he says of course, but to say philosophy shouldn't be political sometimes is nonsense.

[@garthy4u]

@@johncunningham5137 is one of those people who figures we should stay quiet so long as things don't affect us. If you knew anything about Stoicism, you'd know that courage, and fairness/justice are central themes. You stand up for things that you believe to be true/right, irrespective of what the criticisms may be. @Ryan Holliday might lose support from someone like you, but that's probably a good thing.

[@johncunningham5137]

Robert Kirby pretty naive to think that Ryan isn’t a brand. He markets himself very well and I have no issues with that. However, what is going on in your country is violent and divisive. You can choose to believe it doesn’t affect people’s opinions on Ryan’s opinion ignores reality. Look around you.

[@rockysmith9286]

Disappointing video. Just when I was really starting to like Ryan and his mission. Now, not too sure. We can erect a statue of the greatest modern day man now and in hundreds of years society can smear him based on new values. Tearing that down is nothing but ignorance and virtue signaling.

[@ainzooalgown6450]

Yes, ignorance. A vice antithetical to stoic virtue.

[@michaelscott5382]

He’s a hypocrite. Marcus Aurelius owned slaves yet he has a bust on his desk. As he says on 1:02 “the senate passed a decree....”. There’s a process. Rioting and destroying public property is a crime. I lost respect for him.

[@Gigusx]

Controversial video and views, for sure. Was interesting to listen, but can't agree at all. - Marcus was very much guilty of slavery himself. He had all the power in the world and took no steps to abolish it. Okay, different times, different values. Also because it doesn't make much difference if you're a slave or not, you can still live a good life. Today we have different values as well, because world has changed. But just like Marcus who wasn't a perfect man, the statues going down today are not of monsters of despicable men whose history must be condemned. Look anywhere in the "civilized world", have you ever seen statues of truly horrific people that survived to this day? - These are not reasonable acts of "a freed people with a conscience". None of this was reflected and decided upon by the majority, not even agreed with by the authorities. These are acts of angry people in state of frenzy and fear, acts of people wanting to manipulate and force their way without regard for anybody else. It's simply a mob that grows in power with every victory and that always has more reasons to fear, more things to abolish and destroy. Is it them who get to decide? Should we not at least vote on it? - There are already cases of books being pulled out of curriculums, use of language being altered as to not "offend" anybody (knock knock, stoicism?), teachers being punished or investigated for doing their job because somebody felt they were wrong (and schools being complicit). There are more and more demands that originate from nothing but fear, not rationale or sense of responsibility. All part of the same movement and culture. Are you going to hope that the mob stops at a reasonable point, or are people going to act "then", once they do cross that point and the damage is irrevocably done? Lots of angry people in the comments as well, which adds to the irony. The good thing is, you and stoicism has taught us all well. We can't control what content you put out and what your views are, but we can sure as hell do the right thing and not submit to the fear and tyranny from the mob and political parties that stand behind them.

[@davidarbelaez4395]

My guess is that those who are knocking down statues today are not Stoics. I enjoy Ryan’s videos until they become political. Ryan lost some subscribers today.

[@altvctr]

Time to let go. Thanks for all the knowledge over the years. This is very subtle manipulation.

[@RyanHolidayYT]

Bye!

[@ainzooalgown6450]

It's not wise to block out those that would challenge your own beliefs.

[@jackolini]

I disagree with you on Robert E. Lee. Yes he fought for the South but that was because his state, Virginia was part of the South. It would be like today if you were told to pick a side and you choose AGAINST the side of all your friends, family, and neighbors. And you'd maybe be forced to kill them. Perhaps it isn't right but how many of us have been put in that position?

[@chrislrob]

Stoicism repeatedly calls on you to stand on the side of right AT ALL HAZARDS. That is not easy, but is certainly what you "should" do. And many people did it. There are numerous stories from the ACW of brother's ending up on opposite sides in the war. Lee was a traitor and did not have to be. He chose it.

[@gocaps83]

How did Commodus, Aurelius' own son, fall so very far from the tree? How much responsibility does Aurelius bear in that? Also, mobs undemocratically tearing down statues they don't like is not something I can get behind. Also, many of Aurelius' statues survived because people thought it was Constantine.

[@matthewmiller3745]

It's sad that some of the people commenting under the video likely watched it and yet did not pay attention

[@awofadeju1]

@DailyStoic What do you think about statues or monuments to professional athletes such as Michael Jordan outside of the United Center in Chicago or Magic Johnson outside of Staples Center in Los Angeles? What do you think about religious statues such as Christ the Redeemer in Rio de Janeiro or The Giant Buddha in Kamakura, Japan?

[@garthy4u]

The first two are on private property, no? The other two are up to those people to decide. Jesus (to the extent that he was a god who became mortal) probably would have hated having idols created in his image. Nothing about his ministry points to him wanting that kind of worship. I don't know enough about Buddhism to comment.

[@MrAkura1984]

@@garthy4u Jesus would have probably disagree with the fact that Christianity became a separate religion. He was Jewish to the bone. But that doesn't matter. People, through their elected officials, have the right to decide whether or not to errect or destroy monuments - not an angry mob.

[@BruceHurley]

​@@MrAkura1984 Unless that angry mob is committing a symbolic act of rising up against an unjust nation that neglected and abused them for centuries. By the way, I'm referring to the American colonists who rose up against England. While I prefer non-violent, non-destructive acts of protest, there is certainly a place for occasional civil disobedience in the absence of positive action-our country was founded on it! Of course, our founding fathers spilled blood to make their grievances known; a small fraction of modern protesters are simply destroying monuments that, to them, represent centuries of government-sanctioned oppression. It says a lot about us as a society that we elevate the "cause" of protecting monuments over the far more injurious offenses that we have visited on people of color. It's OK to disagree with illegal destruction of public property, but it's immoral to allow those beliefs to obfuscate the greater injustice.

[@LWayneMathison]

They tore down Fredrick Douglas!!!!!

[@She_Wonders]

No one know who pulled down that statue. Probably a white nationalist actually.

[@MrAkura1984]

@@She_Wonders If that was a nationalist the criminal would have been captured within a few hours. Only BLM and other leftist terrorists get to escape punishment for breaking the law. These are direct orders police gets from the "liberal" majors, governors.

[@steves3422]

Wow! Perfect! Not easy as none of our ancestors were perfect. Keeping the balance of the good vs the bad of each of them and ourselves will be an ongoing discussion. One need only ask 'what was their/our overall ideals and how did they/we work to realize them?' Thank you for this channel, it is in my top 5.

[@artysin6331]

Excellent video. It’s a shame these comments have such an individualist view of stoicism as only self-discipline and mental fortitude. Stoicism is political, letting go of past grievances and conflicts and modelling ourselves on the people or society we strive to be is an integral to Aurelius’s teaching, being men of action means action for our community, a community with different values, more egalitarian values, to those of 1939, 1850 or 96.

[@crooney29]

Very powerful, timely, and delicately apolitical. Well done Ryan.

[@janpieterszooncoen2550]

"apolitical" 🤣

[@ainzooalgown6450]

How on earth was this apolitical? He essentially made the case for tearing down statues based on the morals of today which is being discussed within the various echo chambers. "The kind of society we want to live in"? No?

[@philosophycoaching8002]

please speak on BLM and riots and violence and marxism

[@joebauers8031]

He loves it...

[@philosophycoaching8002]

@@joebauers8031 i might be our only hope. fuck.

[@mojo1467]

I think we can benefit from guiding lights that offer a positive path to follow and also from glaring examples of where we as a society have gone wrong and fallen. For example in Ireland where I am from Oliver Cromwell is a hated figure. If there were still statues of him standing in my hometown I would advocate that they be left standing where they are with a new plaque stating clearly all the atrocities he had committed along with any good he may have done. History is complicated if we shy away from the mistakes that are made we are more likely to repeat them.

[@jasonarriola723]

Thank you for this sane interpretation and analysis of current events in relation to history.

[@isesise2658]

Great video. Very thoughtful and well put.

[@thomaswhatley2075]

There's more to this than you have covered. You have omitted out of pc or ignorance some other worthy points. I may believe that Robert E. Lee was an outstanding man but still not agree that slavery was just or right. If we judge everyone by all that they are or have been not many would pass the test.

[@sylyjoly]

Very political

[@HecmarJayam]

Every time Ryan does politics I'm more convinced he doesn't know what cognitive dissonance is.

[@Santaheckler]

The Victor writes history to such a degree that history can easily be lost to the narrative.

[@elviradonaghy5422]

I agree with tearing down statues of such evil people. But not of Catholic statues, or noble honest upright ond morally outstanding, people who uphold one christian man and one christian woman upholding the life of an unborn child in the womb and any child born to to be holy unto God who created them for Himself. Good marriages as Jesus Christ has taught , holy parents to bring up children in Gods 10 Commandments. Family life is the cell of a godly country, a godly government. Which in these grevious days have fallen greatly by the wayside, only to be over run by a contemptuous group of evildoers, trying their hardest to destroy what the country was so fiercely fought for by honest God fearing men and women. Please don't allow this to happen.

[@robertkirby8685]

You realize the ten commandments is against statues or any representation of real life, right? "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"

[@dustypatt1980]

Stay out of politics

[@threeshocks5769]

Roam wasn't built in a day.! But the father of lies was demolished with a word. Psalm 5:5 IXOYE > SARX >

[@calin6327]

Rome* xd

[@t-bone6467]

Thank you for a rational perspective on this issue.

[@tadiqshahid4625]

No politics bro cmon

[@n00dl3]

If I'm not mistaken, the Stoics considered engaging in politics a civic duty.

[@terrycavender]

Slippery slope bud. Without the contrast of the bad, how can you recognize good? What relevance would Martin Luther King have without the history of oppression and prejudice in America? They used to say, "Rome is the mob." Remember, Rome fell, do we want to become Rome, and succumb to the mob? The passions of the mob is not the middle way, or moderation, it's anarchy. Tearing down statues, or removing them only polarize, people, not give them common ground to communicate, and heal the gap.

[@BruceHurley]

The polarization existed before the statues came down, not after. A commenter above wrote: "People, through their elected officials, have the right to decide whether or not to erect or destroy monuments - not an angry mob." While that is legally true, my reply to his comment was: Unless that angry mob is committing a symbolic act of rising up against an unjust nation that neglected and abused them for centuries. By the way, I'm referring to the American colonists who rose up against England. While I prefer non-violent, non-destructive acts of protest, there is certainly a place for occasional civil disobedience in the absence of positive action-our country was founded on it! Of course, our founding fathers spilled blood to make their grievances known; a small fraction of modern protesters are simply destroying monuments that, to them, represent centuries of government-sanctioned oppression. It says a lot about us as a society that we elevate the "cause" of protecting monuments over the far more injurious offenses that we have visited on people of color. It's OK to disagree with illegal destruction of public property, but it's immoral to allow those beliefs to obfuscate the greater injustice. Whatever the current movement is doing seems to be working, so whether right or wrong, legal or illegal, the zeitgeist is changing for the better. I have participated in protests, but I'm not one to pull down a statue-I would rather create a petition or stage a sit-in. But I'm also not inclined to judge too harshly those who find it necessary to take liberties by committing misdemeanor crimes to assert a measure of control that they have long deserved but never received.

[@jamesojinnaka]

Ubsubcribed immediately

[@n00dl3]

@Faigornx not exactly a stoic reaction lmao

[@robertkirby8685]

Not a very stoic response.

[@jamesojinnaka]

That not what his channel is about. Meddling in politics very embarrassing this channel helped me a lot so it's sad I have to do this

[@robertkirby8685]

@@jamesojinnaka You're free to not agree with what he says, but don't think politics and philosophy interacting with each other isn't a thing.

[@joebauers8031]

Robert Kirby not a very “stoic” video 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@davidschaller4837]

Kind of hard for Pliny the Elder to write anything in the year 96 in that he died in the eruption of Vesuvius in 79. What else is wrong with this picture?

[@BruceHurley]

The quote was actually from Pliny the Younger (Pliny the Elder's nephew). That's a casual and understandable mistake, like your assertion that Pliny the Elder died in the eruption of Vesuvius (the consensus is that he died of a heart attack). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliny_the_Elder#Death It is folly to assume that an error of detail taints the message. There may be other things wrong with this picture, but not because of this mistake.

[@danielcavanagh5463]

Wise words! Very enlightening!

[@dadawesome784]

Let those of you without sin cast the first stone.

[@chessdad182]

Imagine what will happen in North Korea one day.

[@ECR9419]

I have a tattoo of Marcus Aurelius on my arm

[@caeto01]

To all people here politicizing this video... Did you not hear Ryan say "to judge the past with the standards of today is a tricky business" ? Stop it with the tribalism. Stop being so defensive about everything you disagree with. Its not about you. Lets debate without personalizing

[@stoicforall]

Swift mob action is a result of anger. Anger is a unstoic emotion, a temporary madness. Mob action in taking down statues is unstoic.

[@chrislrob]

Cowardliness, failing to act, indifference to the plight of others, and divorcing yourself from the world around you--THAT is unstoic. If you think ANY action taken here has been swift, you haven't been paying attention.

[@HiwasseeRiver]

As this issue unfolded I formed an opinion that all likeness erected in public by the state are in fact idols erected to the religion on the state. Various statist publicly identify with likenesses to pander to the people they nominally "serve". In short it's a trap to give a sh*t over any statue. Recycle the metal ones, grind up the stone ones for gravel - all of them. Let the statist be damned if idols are the best articulation of their philosophy. Art work in your home, for your reasons - sure why not, public worship of statist idols, no thanks.

[@alexh4989]

At least you hold a different view than anyone I’ve heard, interesting perspective. Does this go for all monuments, like those that would be the replacers who are perceived as “good”, or just old “tyrants”. Also idk if it’s an actual Stoic philosophy thing to not idolize people, or if that’s just your opinion. Wherever you came across it I’d like to know. Also what do you say is the best articulation of a philosophy. Perhaps relating it to religion, Christians could show how they’ve got billions of followers. Whole societies and counties, even wars fought in Christianity’s name. Not sure if that’s what you’re going on, but is a higher form than idols something physical like books, or intellectual like songs/mantras/hymns? Not to be condescending or anything just curious. ✌️

[@alanschaub147]

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ~ George Santayana I am unsubscribing from this channel

[@Robert-mr7xr]

This sounds more like a political ad than a lesson in Stoicism. I don’t think Stoics would pay much attention to statues or mobs tearing them down. They would be above the cause.

[@robertkirby8685]

A nice stoic perspective on current issues.

[@joebauers8031]

Not really...

[@robertkirby8685]

@@joebauers8031 Yes actually. Though my personal opinion on the matter is that all statues are nothing but what they are, metal or stone shaped to look like a person. It's only us who gives them importance and symbolism.

[@karlalan3806]

@@robertkirby8685 and symbolism matters, every piece of art is representative of something.

[@robertkirby8685]

@@karlalan3806 Representative because we make it so. Outside of the human mind it's nothing.

[@ainzooalgown6450]

@@robertkirby8685 no, representative because they shaped the world we live in. And forgive me if I'm wrong,but stoicism doesn't teach us to be numb and ignorant of history and the importance of historical world changing events and people and the record of such things, right?

[@jeffa6841]

You speak against Lee as a traitor, Washington was just as bad, funny you don't mention that.

[@Yoartetu]

Moses...

[@michaelscott5382]

1:02 “the Senate issued the following decree....”. It is vandalism and a crime to destroy public property. Don’t justify crime. There is a legal process to remove statues. Did you know that Marcus Aurelius owned slaves? If you are so virtuous, why don’t you throw away the statue of the slave owner that you own? Hypocrite much? You can’t have it both ways. You can’t pick and choose what busts or sculptures is statues you keep and which one you tear down.

[@valoriebroderick]

Thanks for the thoughtful and nuanced video. I love getting the daily emails too. I really like this way of having stoicism in my life.

[@elijahp9184]

We shouldn't take history lessons from a college dropout.

[@DAMFOREIGNER]

Which college did Herdotus graduate from??? LOL 😆. We should learn from EVERYONE.

[@joedavis4150]

The very best societies leave no Trace. No Trace.