This Makes Pokémon Games Feel the Same

[@EduSolsa]

To me, this is a problem of many RPGs. Most enemies are weak and the battles fast, so long term strategies are a waste of time. Meanwhile, bosses are too resistant or immune to most status, making them completely useless... But I really like the spin in Beastieball. Since most monster taming games focus on beating the enemy in direct combat, but this one have a different winning condition. I hope it become popular so more people can bring even more fresh ideas for the genre.

[@evan_mirDM]

I think it should be noted that in Pokemon status moves includes buff and debuffs. Buff/debuff are important in other rpgs such as SMT, where the difficulty necessitate it or else you're fucked. In not so demanding rpgs buff/debuff are more encouraged since you have party members that move right after and such

[@EduSolsa]

@evan_mirDM yeah, but SMT is an exception and still, bosses resisit status. Eecentcly I played Dragon Quest Monsters 3, and I can have a support mon using buffs and debuffs without worries, bosses eillnuse moves that dispel all changes, and going back and fort repeating buffs can be a little tedious

[@murozaki3547]

I would say that is also why many Turn-Based RPGs, specially old ones, have a reputation for being grindy. Players see little incentive to use non-damaging moves -> Players just use damaging moves on everything -> Player hits a wall of a difficult boss -> Player comes to the conclusion they just need more levels rather than just adapt their strategy and try something new It is a common pattern many end up falling into.

[@maglev0789]

This is part of why Angry Birds Epic and Miitopia, despite their unassuming looks, are genuinely some of the better RPGs I've played

[@sophiasabkv1372]

It's a natural conclusion of having a leveling system - a worthless mechanic that only exists to pad out play time, at the expense of making a game boring and any other mechanics irrelevant.

[@jayanbyrapuram7405]

I used to never use status moves, then I learned that they existed.

[@TechnoHusky418]

Isn’t that everyone who first plays?

[@N1ghtL1ght64]

"If it doesnt do damage, I dont want it!"

[@tsakanizungu1646]

​@@N1ghtL1ght64True

[@qwertygutierrez1293]

Cuz they almost useless in the main game bc how easy they are, all you need is a powerful pokemon with coverage and you beat the game

[@jake9107]

@@qwertygutierrez1293do a nuzlocke or mono type challenge, youre an adult playing a childrens game. use your brain

[@RadiactionRay]

Teraraids made me pick up status moves. Being very "Lets try Swords Dance twice and see what kind of damage it does- OH!"

[@SethiKinsGaming]

if you've ever used Double Team, you'll know just how powerful a status move can truly be, and for games where farming for levels simply takes too long, DT can truly make or break a battle.

[@vanesslifeygo]

@@SethiKinsGaming Or if you have to deal with a battle tower trainer who is ending your streak with it Werster gets a lot of this

[@IndigoEuphonium]

I'd like the main series games to have a small icon next to the HP bars showing what status moves did, like in Pokemon Showdown. Showing that a Swords Dance causes "Attack x2" I think is a lot better than a tiny sword icon that I'd need to go to another menu to see what that little icon actually meant

[@HydrapleMortar64]

Like in pokemon reborn and Rejuvenation

[@Magikarpador]

keep spreading the good word, brother

[@MrReset94]

Well I think the icon is simpler and better and you only need to learn what it means once (and it's pretty intuitive), but the issue is pokèmon doesn't even have that

[@laskurtanceixixii]

​@@MrReset94yeaj the game Never tells you exactly what's happening

[@SethiKinsGaming]

don't moves have descriptions in a pokémon's status screen though? I always make sure to check the stats on a freshly caught pokémon, so as a consequence I've always known what their status moves did.

[@BelleColonD]

Dude I got half way through this video when it released before stopping for some reason. Yesterday I found beastieball and fell in love immediately. I'm kicking myself for not finishing this video and discovering it sooner 😭

[@nicholaslogan6840]

I usually ran 3 offensive moves and one technical slot because I found it to be more effective, especially if you ever know you're losing turns to protect or heal spam anyway or want to boost for a one-shot, which also avoids counter or mirror coat. It's pretty hard to find four useful moves that all add to your coverage in a meaningful way on most Pokemon, too

[@burgila7878]

unironically cant wait for the prototype for your game to come out. the creatures designs are so well done and i love the art style! and from the small bits you've give us on combat, it seems like itll be interesting! these vids are inspiring me to work on my own creature collector project that i stopped working on due to loss of motivation lol

[@StarBeam500]

Your idea of having 2 attacks, but attacking twice, weakens the second attack reminds me of Bug Fables. It's a paper mario style RPG that I love, and it has a mechanic that can allow members of your team to attack multiple times, either by gaining advantage on the field before the fight or having one member give their turn to another. The gimmick, of course, is that the second attack deals 1 less damage. (which can be almost half your attack in many cases) There is still a use, however, in that some enemies can only be hit by a certain party member, so you may need to trade out some damage to hit an enemy out of the sky or ground. It's not exactly the same, but I think the idea of making the second attack weaker would work very well to encourage varied combat, or at least the use of non-damaging moves.

[@miimiiandco]

Choice items and Assault Vest users are crying.

[@josenobi3022]

It made me think of parental bond lol

[@redraycoon1662]

13:13 gotta love the 3am discord message explaining the systems I imagine Nort just lying in bed in idle thought as the idea pops up, rushing to the phone and typing it down. Then finally going back to sleep, mission complete

[@DragonTheOneDZA]

He uses the internet He's legally nocturnal

[@person_guy3505]

I think allowing for multiple actions in a turn is the best way to incentivize status moves in turn based combat. While you didn't talk about them, in Party-based JRPGs, like Final Fantasy, the White Mage is considered a very important character, and their role in almost exclusively status, with very little in terms of offense except in very specific circumstances. This is because each party member gets to move on a turn, granting multiple actions. While its good to use most of these for damage, its a lot easier to justify using more status effects when you have other party members dealing damage simultaneously, so the fight is still progressing.

[@ToonedMinecraft]

I agree with this, as Divinity Original Sin 2 also has quite a few status moves, but you have "action points" and usually these status moves only cost 1 AP, while a basic attack costs 2.

[@qwertygutierrez1293]

Yeah except double battles do this already, only problem is that the games barely use this format

[@mayuwu4408]

@@qwertygutierrez1293 I forget where exactly but I saw some rom hack that let you choose if which gym battle would be singles or doubles, however over the course of the game 4 of them must be singles battles and 4 of them must be doubles battles. I think it'd be a cool way to let the player decide what they wanna do while making doubles more a part of the game (as it should be, being the primary competitive format. It's strange to wanna be the best only to be met with a format you've almost never been required to battle in for more than a gimick). It'd also make Pokemon battles less about the format overall and more about the Pokemon, and how you choose to use and adapt with them to whatever challenge comes your way. Also getting more esoteric, single battles emphasize the relationship between the Pokemon and their trainer (the Friendship mechanics emphasizing and codifying this), but it'd be cool to have more doubles to give more room for the player to develop relationships between their Pokemon like in the anime (inter-Pokemon friendship mechanics would also be sick!!) Sorry for the essay, love talking game design and this topic inspired me 😅 hope this is interesting!

[@milliondollarmistake]

PLA sorta did this but it would be completely broken in a regular Pokemon game. Xerneas was one of the most toxic pokemon in PvP because it was able to effectively use Quiver Dance twice in one turn.

[@person_guy3505]

@milliondollarmistake I mean, the obvious solution is just to make status moves less op. Keep boosts either less powerful or for shorter durations. Or maybe do a system like DND where some abilities are actions, and others are bonus actions. That way the really good status moves could be reserved for full turns, whereas the weaker ones could be used alongside other moves.

[@centurosproductions8827]

Overleveling has been made so easy recently in Pokemon that it's very hard *not* to do it.

[@laskurtanceixixii]

Even before it was not that difficult

[@Dustydank-333]

You know it’s a good day when Nort uploads

[@maglev0789]

A nice day, even

[@Air21Man]

BEASTIEBALL! Just a couple quick notes. 1. There are also defensive plays that can be used while your opponent has control of the ball, and some Beasties whose ability allows them to use their support moves as defensive moves. 2. Some attacks can be used without volleying the ball first, but tend to be weaker and/or lack the additional effects that other moves have. There are also some abilities that can auto-volley the ball. Lastly, if a Beastie gets an Easy Receive, then they don't need to volley the ball first. It is a great game that everyone needs to check out!

[@thekirbyguy4576]

I think one thing that would be cool to mention here are the Max and Tera Raid Battles. In Dynamax Adventures, since you were forced to use Pokemon that had pre-made movesets, you couldn't avoid status moves, and the difficulty of certain challenges such as Zygarde would force you to strategize with them to figure out how to defeat them. 7 Star Tera Raids are basically impossible to brute force and almost always require a strategy that involves picking the right Pokemon for the job as well as using status moves to cripple the boss and buff yourself, allowing you to defeat them. These game modes are heavily incentivized and advertised with the rewards they give, usually being a strong/rare Pokemon and great items for both casual and competitive play, so you could look at them as another way Pokemon has promoted more strategic play and the use of status moves over time.

[@platinumg.8614]

I think using more formats different or changing HP in the main game too? Idk

[@BigMastah79]

The short battles of pokemon like wild encounters and trainer battles with 1-3 pokemon heavily undervalue status moves. Why waste soooo much time using status moves on the 20th Skitty you find when you just can kill it? Then the actual big fights aren’t hard enough or well structured enough to command strategy

[@eightcoins4401]

The incredibly incompetent AI trainers have also doesn't help. Status moves are so useful in SMT because the enemies got actual strategies to them. The main problem Pokemon really has is - its one of the most complex battle systems in any JRPG - and the official games literally dont utilize any of it in their npcs.

[@BigMastah79]

@ exactly. Also the switch battle style, it just removes an entire layer of the gameplay

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Need mons to last longer across the board.

[@herowither12354]

That's why if I did a creature collector, or a Pokemon fangame, I would give every major trainer at least 2/3rds of a full team. (almost all Gym Leader equivalents and Elite Four equivalents would have full teams)

[@BigMastah79]

@@youtubeuniversity3638 I don’t think that we need to necessarily buff longevity (but a lot of weaker mons I think could use just random defense and hp buffs like that lol) but the games definitely need to play more into the aspect of planning and switching in singles as a format

[@Deadflower019]

I'm actually fascinated with Pokérogue's solution to this. Since your Pokémon stay on the field between battles, you don't lose stat buffs and effects like Aqua Ring. This is both a benefit and a hinderance since stat drops and other effects like Confusion stick around too. I've copied this pretty well for my project since 99% of my battles are wild encounters, so following Pokémon don't return to their Pokéballs either, meaning those effects persist from one encounter to the next.

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

I think a major source of difference between competative and casual, is the format. Casual, you usually play through gauntlets with limited healing in between, and effectively no PP refills. So spending a move slot on something that does not let your limited pp make it to the next town, is not just unhelpful, it can be actively harmful. This is the main disincentive for status moves. I think we'd see fewer status moves in competative if your party as is at the end of match 1, is how you enter match 2, statuses and health included. Compounding this further, is the health pool. That's the other resource you're managing from one heal point to the next. This means that if status moves are used at all, they tend to prioritize statusses that cost your opponent their entire turn, so that you don't take hits, and you preserve health for the rest of the trial.

[@ampisbadatthis]

as someone who always did use status moves, most of the games have very well-balanced difficulty curves when you use them. I've seen a lot of people complain about Whitney, Cynthia, Ultra Necrozma, etc. but I beat each on my first attempt, without much difficulty, whereas I lost to Grant in X, and Falkner in HG, which are often considered to be trivial, mostly because they come early in the game and I had underlevelled teams and very few good status moves.

[@GWJ319]

Omg I see people complain about those guys all the time, really?? I see a lot of people come unprepared in almost every fight they come in. It’s not really status moves it’s just a lot of players aren’t the brightest. The tools aren’t available to the player early game and then as they play throughout the game it becomes well paced and maybe easier due to oncoming of new mechanics and new ideas. Though most of the players don’t follow this and complain about how the games aren’t well paced and hard due to them rushing through the game while gamefreak is trying to guide them throughout and teach them.

[@chaosenforcerdhm969]

Ultra necrozma is really easy even not using cheese or status move

[@iantaakalla8180]

I like that Grant from X and Y is hard simply because he has two fossil Pokémon that not only hit hard, but the Amaura sets up for the sweep Tyrunt can provide. It’s not just “there are random weak rock pokemon and here is my Ace which is the best this Pokemon will ever get except in spinoffs like Pokémon GO”

[@InsertFunnyThingHere]

I think Cynthia's issue is also how comically overleveled she is. Like most of early pokemon's difficulty comes entirely just from level differences and Cynthia takes it to an extreme while also being like an actually difficult fight even without level differences

[@lilharm]

smart player vs ai is usually able to take down the opponent with a strong/super effective move, especially when the game is always the same, the ai never changes it’s Pokemon, Cynthia will always have a Garchomp and Whitney will always have a Miltank, so you can plan around it, even when they’re considered the hardest fights in the series smart player vs smart player is never so predictable, not everyone brings a Landorus, and when they’re considered do, it won’t always be in the same spot, and usually it’ll have something to cover it’s counterplay (be it an ally Pokemon that covers it’s weaknesses or it’s own coverage move) since you can’t know what an opponent is bringing to the fight (before you get a chance to change your team), you can’t reasonably one-shot their team with STAB from your overleveled starter or the box art legendary’s signature move

[@GeorgeDCowley]

Also, online negates leveling.

[@GroundThing]

I' m of the opinion that Pokemon battles would be benefitted (at least for the single player experience, I don't know much about competitive) by being on average a turn longer per pokemon. By the end of the game, you're 1- or 2-shotting most enemies, which isn't really enough time that giving up a turn for a status move to be worth it. If instead you were 2- or 3-shotting it seems like a better risk-reward payout, with the risk being taking an extra hit, but the reward being whatever the status move does. And while it means, for instance, your setup sweeper might need 2 dragon dances instead of 1, remember also that this change would be in effect make them bulkier (though most are still /relatively/ frail, assuming the same setup sweepers remain popular, meaning some Gyms for instance could be designed for counterplay, like a Flannery analogue whose lead has an overheat-like move to punish opponents who want to set up with a frail mon).

[@Commander_Appo]

12:55 NOOOOOOOOOOOOO little red guy you were so young

[@Niko41231]

they fell :(

[@TEAMKYR]

It’s interesting how much of this would be avoided with a sort of level cap to prevent over-leveling. Pokemon already has the mechanic that traded pokemon stop listening to you if they go over your badge level to prevent trainers from trading something overleveled and sweeping the game. Maybe a similar mechanic for recently caught pokemon would be interesting to force you to either use that pokemon enough so you can overlevel with no drawback or figure out how to use it effectively without overleveling.

[@jaernihiltheus7817]

Over leveling isn't as much an issue in the earlier games. The gen 6-9 exp share + abundant exp candies make over leveling a full team of 6 not only trivial, but inevitable. Gen 1 lets you over level until you get to the e4 and have to deal with a level jump of mid 40s to late 50s and early 60s. Gen 2 has a general lack of xp that prevents over leveling. Gen 3 has a less severe version of gen 1s level spike. Gen 4 also has an e4 level spike. And gen 5 has multiple sharp level spikes (mitigated by double lucky eggs) that prevent over leveling if you use more than 1 pokemon.

[@Gatchu137]

​@@jaernihiltheus7817 Gen 5 doesn't need the lucky eggs, and doesn't have an overleveling problem because those games had dynamic experience growth that gave way more/less experience depending on level differences.

[@CoolMintMC]

@@Gatchu137I genuinely can’t believe they dropped that, as it should’ve been a CORE mechanic. But GameFreak & incompetency seem to always go together I guess.

[@TEAMKYR]

@@jaernihiltheus7817 i think my point wasn’t exactly that overleveling is too easy now (which it is don’t get me wrong), it’s more so that keeping the option of overleveling on the table for every pokemon the player has takes away the opportunity for the player to try any tactics out as they can always brute force with higher level pokemon.

[@miimiiandco]

​@CoolMintMC Dynamic EXP is still in the modern entries, minus gen 6 for some reason.

[@AaronL0905]

Once you use status moves in PvE you can figure out how to swipe everything with your overleveled starter even more efficiently

[@AaronL0905]

Also in Ultra Necrozma, a lot of the "boss" design in S&M/US&UM do actually feel designed to make you either take advantage of your whole team and not just one mon or use status moves to make you think more efficiently Feels a little more inspired by more traditional RPGs where status and buffs are basically necessary

[@Gatchu137]

​@@AaronL0905 I think it's really just a product of the totem pokemon and ultra necrozma being harder, so it forces you to engage with status moves. There's usually no point to debuffing enemies when your pokemon are stronger, or comparably strong anyway. You'd rather buff your pokemon instead. But against objectively stronger bosses, debuffs and status effects are way more valuable.

[@miimiiandco]

​@@Gatchu137 Since it's only one main Pokemon, a single use of Charm is a half attack drop for the rest of the battle. Same with a Burn or a Paralyse. Status moves are honestly broken in Totem fights.

[@josephbulkin9222]

Bold to assume that you can even overlevel to begin with.

[@Bonkus..]

Shoutout to volcarona my beloved for introducing me to setup moves

[@FrostFire425]

Volcarona sweep 💥💥💥💥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@dylstarling8649]

Took me too long to realise status moves can be useful, some can even be broken when used by the right pokemon, and a lot of them can just be stupid fun, I actually learned to appreciate using status moves through playing final fantasy 1, that game isn't too difficult but using support magic and abilities can really make most fights a joke, it's satisfying getting your team set up to tear a boss apart in that game, transferring that to pokemon made battle a bit more interesting and fun, infact playing Crystal Red is way easier to beat on lower levels with the right status moves, not even the cheesy ones either.

[@JackitK]

I think another example of the game teaching you about the more niche parts of the game are the Battle Sims in Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness. Granted it's a side mode, but by forcing you to win battles in a specific scenario you can often end up learning about game mechanics you'd otherwise overlook. For example, for one of the battles requires you to defeat an entire team of Pokemon in a single turn. And you have to use hazards to take advantage the way you send out Pokemon, specifically in gen 3, to pull off the feat.

[@suponyan]

It's also because the opponent theoretically can have the same team and move pool as you. Nothing can be too outstanding without exception or consequence (legendries, pseudos', megas, and some held items like leftovers and some berries are at least rarer) because then everything has to raise their standards

[@varflock9777]

It's true that the option of overleveling the opponent a lot often makes the players just use that as a default strategy, but how to solve it? The ways I can think of: - Setting soft level caps. I've seen it in a few games and I don't like it. It feels like the game forces you to follow the path it chose for you, because otherwise the experience points you earn are wasted after you hit the cap. Making you earn less exp but still some above the cap could be a bit more forgivable, perhaps. - Rubber-banding the level of the opponents to yours so they're always challenging - I hate that. It only ends up making the player feel like leveling up is useless. Also, it makes no sense to kill a dragon and get destroyed by a bear afterwards in Skyrim for example. - Make the game harder. If the opponents are strong enough to force the player to either grind levels or use strategy... well, some will just grind anyway, I guess. But if you manage to make using strategy the easier way to progress, then it may actually work. - Make the fighting mechanics more complex like in Sea of Stars or Chained Echoes. In Sea of Stars the moves have different elements/types (like sun, moon, poison, blunt damage, slashing damage...), but they're not only used to deal more damage to specific opponents with specific types. The opponents generate "locks" that require you to hit that enemy with specific element/type to break the lock. When you break them all, the opponent's skill fails, they're briefly stunned and you can deal more damage to them. This system makes brute-forcing through the game impossible (or at least extremely hard) but doesn't make leveling up any less rewarding. You need both. Chained Echoes has a bar displayed in combat with an orange (neutral) part on the left, green (good) in the middle and red (bad) on the right. When you get hit or attack the opponent, your mark progresses toward the right on the bar - your characters get more warmed up. There are actions that move you toward the left like defending or using a move of a specific, randomly selected by the game type. When you're in the green, you take less damage, deal more and use less mana (or TP or whatever it's called), being on the red part gives the opposite effect so you need to try staying in the middle part of the bar. This also blocks the strategy of just getting overleveled and hitting with the most damaging moves all the time without making leveling up useless. Also - the "status moves" there in many cases still deal damage, just not as much of it. That makes using them feel less like you're wasting a turn. Sorry for an essay.

[@typemasters2871]

Most of the time I prefer moves that deal damage and have a secondary effect May that effect be stat buffs like Torch Song or Trail Blaze, debuff stat like Acid Spray or Electro Web, or provide status like Sacred Fire or Nuzzle The only times I would use status moves in a main story playthrough is if it was a healing move or it gave the target paralysis or sleep to increase it’s catch rate

[@anglure3617]

from what I've seen of Beastieball it seems like it's a very unique kind of mons game and I really appreciate that

[@coffee-ouji]

I love learning stuff from your vids! Keep up the good stuff

[@kingmagikarp97]

0:58 that was really good word play 😂❤

[@nidohime6233]

The issue with status moves is for the average player there feel like time wasters. Why use one in the first turn when you could use Tackle a couple of times? There are very few moments where the game do actually teach why there are so important.

[@monog0n]

About Beastieball, having played some of the playtests I can add a few stuff. First, while you only get one action in defense, there does exist defense plays. Although it is important to know that you can only assign 3 plays per Beastie (besides the default ones like the normal volley, free ball, etc.), so having each beastie be a bit specialized is I think what the devs are going for. Also, while during offense you have to first volley the ball to get it under control (so that you can attack), you could also spend the whole turn doing 2 support plays with the other beastie, and then use free ball, since free ball is basically a volley to your opponent (which only does 1 damage) but then that means the opponent won't have to volley the ball (since you volleyed it for them, it's under control!). Also, free ball is pretty important outside of combat, notably when recruiting (equivalent to catching) wild beasties, since you have to do their unique recruit conditions, having a play that only does 1 damage is very useful. Another very cool thing that directly adresses the subject of your video is that the game will often force you in different ways to change your beasties' moveset (and in turn discover new strategies). For example at some point during the game one of your beastie will stop learning new plays and the only way to change that is to fulfill their "yearning," which is to have a particular feeling (status effect) in a combat, which will force you to probably change your beasties' order and some beastie's moveset. Also there's a whole system with the way the plays are learned between beasties which definitely will force you to change what plays you've equipped but I don't know how much casual players will really get involved in that system. And not really about the plays themselves but if you always use the same beastie in every combat, they will be "injured" (can't use any play except the default one), so that's also so that you change your beasties order/strategy.

[@owenb19]

oh this explains why I didn't find the ultra necrozma fight that difficult. I love poison types and I love using toxic (basically my strategy was "I have a toxapex")

[@miimiiandco]

I guess you get one chance to Protect before you get blown of the face of the planet.

[@frakspikes2619]

... i wonder how the competitive would change if the status moves introduced a mechanic for the "magic types" to allow each one of them to have 1 low priority high accuracy status move (basically "accept a hit to land a debuffing counter" strategy) with a varient of lesser PP that has a 1/3 chance of negating the opponent's attack damage?

[@ScarletRebel96]

I always look forward to these videos

[@pjanderson4876]

I’ve loved every entry of this series so far, I’m a huge math, science, and pokemon nerd so it’s right up my alley! Let me know if you need a mathematician on your team to help you out with anything

[@Wackii0]

It looks good so far, keep up the good work

[@Aftonsparv90]

honestly i think cassette beasts handels status like moves masterfully because how the types have diffrent effects on eachother and how you cant instantly use a big powerful move i offten found myself having to set up or think ahead and debuff my opponet make my beasts stronger or put an affect on the feild to tip it in my favor

[@ruzma3927]

Beastieball mention!!!!!!🎉 Game's comin' out in Early Acess on the 12th of November!!

[@someoneawesome8717]

When it came to Ultra Necrozma my Mimikyu's disguise was incredibly useful for Stall tactics, and most of Necrozma's moves were psychic type so my Zoroark clutched in too

[@miimiiandco]

Disguise into Thunder Wave seems like a pretty good way to slow Ultra Necrozma down.

[@pedrocto9474]

0:52 Imagine if that Pachirisu actually survived lol, that would be crazy, shame that it probably didn't happen

[@Bazingus-xp9rc]

Pachirisu: watch me Fun fact for anyone who doesnt know that clip is a very famous one from the 2014 vgc world championship grand finals where pachirisu on see jun parks team lived a draco meteor from salamance. pachirisu usually sucks as a mon but it's ability of volt absorb its move pool including follow me, nuzzle and super fang plus its surprisingly high special bulk allowed it with good ev investment to act as a great support mon for Se Jun Park's team. the format for that year had a very limited pokedex so better options to pachirisu were unavaliable making the choice of a usually really bad mon competitively actually genius as it filled a very specific role well.

[@Blueskirtt]

I think another way modern Pokemon encourages the use of multiple strategies is in the 7* tera raid events in Scarlet and Violet. If you want to beat these solo, usually a novel strategy with planning and defensive options to deal with the overpowered raid pokemon are needed. Additionally, the "why use turns to use non-damaging moves" is seriously made up for in doubles, and if the main games had a more vgc-type feel to in game battles, it would make these strategies a lot more fulfilling. The Indigo Disk dlc did this very well in having all its battles be doubles.

[@ShockRox]

Arinot's skill explained with memes: Turn 1: GAS GAS GAS Turn 2: he attac Turn 3: * brmp * Turn 4: he protec Until end of battle: DO IT AGAIN

[@docalpaca]

0:39 poor guy lmao

[@Mattno.777]

Bro went SAD SPONGEBOB mode after that💀

[@Muffin86700]

*”shut up”*

[@konstantinschreiner2122]

He had nothing important to say anyway!

[@PizzaKnight-pizzapizza]

‘Blahbalahla blah balhab” Such inspiring words

[@l0u13__3]

Idk but the idea of someone playing Pokémon casually and using stall strats throughout the story mode is bloody hilarious

[@miimiiandco]

Someone needs to make that playthrough a reality.

[@BrilliantBro]

I’m genuinely excited to see how your game works and looks😁

[@insupportofjunhado]

I definitely noticed the addition of stealth rock, the move I wish never existed, in generation four. Aqua ring was cool though. Generation five meanwhile had cotton guard, hone claws, bestow, quiver dance, telekinesis, heal pulse, where have you been all my life?

[@FrostFire425]

Hone Claws + Stone Edge my beloved

[@windego64]

it's really simple. a trainer have multiple pokemon all of which kos quickly as 3hits tops. attacking is the most optimal way to play even in competitive. another game which is completely opposite is smt where you have a boss and lackies who all present on field. the boss have a lot of hp and can heal. you need to use status moves to win. in fact a big enjoyment in smt is making the most overpowered sets using these moves that often a demon would have only one attack

[@skitten02tapp99]

When you were talking about the zodiac beast and brought up engines and friction, I thought for sure the zodiac beast would be a perpetual motion machine lol. I was incorrect. That would be neat tho even if it’s impossible in the real world.

[@wizakke5399]

I thought that too, and he already had the klein bottle one which is also impossible irl.

[@Vanilla-mint]

I’ve never understood the ignoring of status moves, I always used them, maybe a little too much!

[@Tiosedan]

Kid uses move, text pop-ups, HP is the same, non english speaking child is not amused.

[@mrpop9725]

why double attack when i use attack twice

[@jocabulous]

Because it's often the case in the story, i could use swords dance and double my attack, or just attack twice. And if 2 attacks don't kill, it means my pokemon isn't overleveled enough

[@An_Entire_Lime]

What's so hard to understand? The game is easy, you can beat everyone by just spamming attacks. Meanwhile status moves do the same thing, but take way longer, so why would you ever click them?

[@An_Entire_Lime]

​@@jocabulous You don't need to be overleveled to get 2 hit kos, most pokemon can just get them by default if the target doesn't resist it. And with super effective hits it's almost always a 1 shot.

[@arielalejandrodelfabro1740]

16:19 Kinda see why you want to redraw it Is a collection of tubes And while, it makes sense for the engine analogy and the pyro and cryo combo, I feel like it could be made into something more… stylish With more flair and maybe intercepting. Making the icy blue have orange and the fire red have some blue Some more contrast that makes it look less like (sorry for this) a pool inflatable

[@folechno]

What if the Zodiac Beast had a cycle of offensive and defensive modes that it would passively switch between? Like the sword pokemon that has either an offensive or defensive mode, the zodiac beast would passively switch, but you and your opponent would know what switch will be occurring.

[@usagi2076]

Something i never thought about is how i play many RPG'S Games and i always try to explore buff, debuff, status ailments as well as any other unique game mechanic the game has to offer, i did this with Shin Megami Tensei, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and many other games, but never with Pokémon. Since most of the games you can easily beat them only exploring the Pokémon Weakness, i never felt the necessity to go after using buff's and debuff's skills. I knew they were great and they would make combat easy, but at the same time i felt like they weren't really necessary, but when i start playing harder fan made games, Showdown or challenge runs, i start exploring more what the complete mechanics had to offer. I just wish Pokémon games tried to encourage the players on using buff's, debuff's and ailments attacks.

[@Munchkin.Of.Pern09]

This is part of why I love Legends: Arceus so much. Not only does it change up the ways turns work, making it less Final Fantasy and more Paper Mario, but it also makes the batting feel special because it’s not your primary means of progression anymore.

[@Thebrooky12]

as someone active on Smogon, seeing babidi and jacob show up as the examples of status moves in singles is fascinating, where did you find that replay?

[@NIMPAK1]

Interesting video. I mostly just chalked up modern Pokemon's lame campaigns mostly to lack of difficulty and boring regions. As a casual player myself, using status moves always felt like a stab in the dark. After all, you can't exactly see the other Pokemon's stats and it's hard to tell how turn effective using a status move would be versus just attacking unless you rely on trial and error and constantly reset. Fighting Morimoto underleveled in Sun and Moon made me really appreciate Mimikyu/Trick Room, but I had to reset several times in order to develop that strategy. Not that having to reset a hard fight is a bad thing, but it can feel pretty unsatisfying and knowing the opponent's Pokemon and moves beforehand adds a huge advantage. One idea I had was to have a meter that allows you to use multiple moves at once with status moves using less meter and can be spammed multiple times per turn while powerful attacking moves use up the entire meter and can only be used once per turn.

[@arielalejandrodelfabro1740]

Status moves are an interesting tool for some weaker types. If you realize, grass types and poison types normally use their status because they are easily blocked (Sure, poison types can’t poison other poison types or steel types. But still. Toxic and poison spikes are both really used by teams of that type) I really think Status moves could be beneficial if you were playing more defensive or specially with a mono type run. Where sweepers are more needed than “spam the b button” Maybe grant some status moves less chances to be healed up Or to do a bit more damage In general, status is annoying But it is a nice alternative for those who don’t want to risk it all in a super effective move (Also, do you see that Leech seed or other status actually don’t apply the type chart? That is because, unlike the attacking moves, they can be used against some types that resist normally the attacks) Now, of course, this is demolished by things like “grass inmune to powder and spore”, “electric is never paralized” or “ice types never freeze” But… it could be useful for other matches Like the stealth rocks for bug-fire and ice types Or leech seeding a steel type or normal type Status moves are useful when it seems the attacks will not do enough So… you drain your opponent Little by little Until you get the upper hand And then, you strike!

[@Stephen-Fox]

Might be worth looking outside the genre, especially into TTRPGs here - Specifically Pathfinder 2e. Three actions per turn, a lot of spells cost two actions, fighting types are disincentivised from using all their actions on attacks via the multiple attack penalty - You're rolling at -5 for your second attack, and -10 for your third and more. There's usually something better to do on your third action than attack at -10, no matter how basic your character build is. Your idea of a second attacking move delivering lower damage is setting up a similar, though more subtle, incentive to do other things on the second action. I used to use sleep a lot. Then they nerfed sleep in Gen 2, (from 1-7 turns and waking up costs a turn, to 1-6 and you can act on waking up - Nerfing it further in Gen 3 to 1 to 4 turns) - Along with razor leaf via the changes to the critical system in Gen 2 which meant that strategy stopped feeling worthwhile in the campaign. Still enjoy the good old paralysis/confusion combo, mind if I get reliable ways of causing those status effects.

[@zixvirzjghamn737]

0:39 amazing dialogue

[@raulkirbo]

0:39 justice for Justice 🗣️🗣️

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

The idea of having multiple actions each turn and a multiple attack penalty is a proven approach - Pathfinder 2e does the same thing in TTRPG format.

[@RahidenChan]

I think the first time I used status moves consistently in an ingame playthrough was Shell Smash on my Carracosta in Gen 5. The fact that status moves generally get more powerful as the generations come out adds to the incentive.

[@Zaggs_XD]

Yo n0Rtist posted everyone wake up!

[@Shamazya]

I love the design of the Zodiac Beast

[@Skimmer951]

Love the beastie ball showcase I loved its demo!

[@mr.cobbweb1624]

Usually the only status moves that I tend to actively use are either: - Sleep, Paralysis or Burn specific moves due to them having enough of an impact to warrant their use (and even then applying Burn or Sleep with said status moves isn't reliable due to their accuracy so I don't tend to use those often.). Freeze doesn't have a specific status move and Poison/Toxic rarely are of use with the mild exception of Toxic Spikes but Stealth Rock and normal Spikes tend to be more effective in casual use. - Status moves that increase two stats and one of those either being Speed or Attack/Sp. Attack. Stuff like Curse, Calm Mind, Dragon Dance, etc. However, this is very pokemon dependant since sometimes a pokemon can't afford to waste a turn because of their stats so I only use them on pokemon who can guarantee a notable boost on one turn. (Cloyster, most Dragon Dancers, etc.) Example: Rampardos may benefit from a Swords Dance or Curse but the dude's so slow and not that bulky that wasting a turn using them is a waste of time and may get the Rampardos fainted (if the dude had Rock Polish then THAT would be a plausible status move to use). In the other hand there's Shell Smash Crustle who has enough bulk to survive an attack and the boost obtained are so good that makes up for the lost turn by making the dude a decently fast powerhouse. - Encore on a fast pokemon so they can guarantee that the move goes off when needed. If most of the game was Double Battles then stuff like Terrain and Weather setting moves, Trick Room, Protect and double battle specific moves would become viable, specially the timed ones that only last a limited amount of time. Sad that weather moves had to be nered in gen 6 onwards due to gen 5's weather meta since the permanency of pre gen 6 weather made the setting moves worth having in Single Battles. I recently had a Platinum playthrough where I used my Crobat as a Sunny Day setter and it was quite fun.

[@erinkarp]

Your combat system sounds promising

[@modenoatr]

I've been watching Imported Cheese's in-game tierlists, and in the Gen V video, he mentions that the new XP system inadvertently made certain status moves (specifically self-buffing moves) slightly better in BW/2 playthroughs. Essentially: - XP gain is now increased or decreased depending on whether you're underlevelled or overlevelled. - While the primary goal of this change was likely to make it easier to bring late-game catches up to speed, it also has the effect of making overlevelling fights more difficult and tedious. - Therefore, you likely aren't oneshotting most opponents, so you might as well use a turn to Swords/Dragon/Quiver Dance your way to victory. Really goes to show how interconnected the systems of a game are!

[@NIMPAK1]

I also think BW's linearity and lack of old Pokemon in the campaign also helped contribute to it being one of the better campaigns in the series.

[@SangoProductions213]

I've been working on a pokemon-based slots game, and... yeah. Turns out people are much more willing to slot in status moves when there's much less cost to using it. When you get 3-5 moves per round, and upwards of 10 slots... yeah.

[@slyfox7452]

Ultra necrozma is cheesed by picking the water starter

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

I feel like making mons across the board a good bit bulkier would help a bit. Any moves that depend on a given mon persisting to have effect, whether ally or enemy or user or whatever targeting, becomes a better investment. And, even if not, each individual turn of damage deal has less value, letting weaker nondamage moves compete with them. Meanwhile, in competetive, status moves are already used a ton, so there's less to actually increase it by. (1+1 is a 100% increase, 10+1 is a 10% increase, y'know?)

[@Thirty_Five]

0:52 did you just do that

[@ForgottenSoma]

Your point about leveling and super effective moves being enough to carry through the story makes me wonder: what happens if you cut levels out of the game entirely? Most challenge run youtubers use rare candies to cut out grinding, competitions are all played at the same level, etc. This would make all pokemon essentially be max level when you find them, but their EVs, moves, evolutions, etc. would all be tied to something else. Taking a cue from the anime, we would tie it to the friendship system. The more time you spend with them, the more nice things you do with them, the more you bring out their potential. My only fear is that this doesn't actually move you anywhere, it only changes the way you grind, but if pokemon is going to put in all these side features about bonding with pokemon, why not tie progression in with then? Maybe battling grants you certain moves like the best outright damaging moves, contests could be tied to other buffing moves, picnics could be tied to others like rest, you could tie fleeing from battle to stuff like u-turn and volt-switch. I don't think they'd ever do it, but I feel like there's something here.

[@captaincanterberrystudios6920]

I loved Swords Dance Scyther in my Fire Red playthrough, and I think I also put Toxic on my Vaporeon. I think those were the only statuses I used on the Elite Four . . .

[@GeorgeDCowley]

The first status move I really used was Howl, on Fennekin.

[@Magikarpador]

i think it's primarily a difficult thing combined with a lot of earlier status moved being underwhelming and only having 4 move slots with limited power points. Like sure thunder wave might help you against an upcoming gym leader but if you have thunderbolt snd discharge you can get through this whole cave without having to go back to heal. and since difficulty is the rare exception, that kinda exchange is rarely prioritized

[@bigkebizino8970]

Loomian Legecy status moves are pretty cool and are easy to not only understand but also see the impact of them due to the clear indicators

[@DarkSlayerJ]

My biggest problem with pokemon is how important the type chart is taught to us to be, then about STAB, and then we get slapped with 4 move slots. Get some coverage, but maybe still have something for STAB to do big damage too, but also why not have some status stuff? You've got no room. Mechanically it works fine. But it feels god awful in my brain to see a mon with like 1 attack move that's not even STAB and everything else is status. But in doubles, this feels much better for some reason. At least to my brain. Continuing this train of thought, when PLA came out, I was so hyped that the battle system was changed a bit. Turn orders on the side being a thing and the swift and strong style felt like such a neat shake up in my mind. It... really wasn't. Pokemon just lack enough HP, unless they're a 'tanky mon' on level or higher than you, to really live long enough for that turn order to mater. Ignoring the issues of times where the turn order didn't mean jack as the Pokemon you're fighting just dunks you twice or you beat a mon and the new one that comes out get 2 hits right off the bat. At no point did I ever feel like not rushing the foe down was the best move.

[@zenone9698]

Xenoblade series uses statues effects and buffs and debuffs and are useful for main story.

[@An_Entire_Lime]

I mean... Yeah, but Xenoblade combat and Pokemon combat aren't exactly comparable.

[@milliondollarmistake]

Maybe it's because of my competitive Pokemon knowledge but I tend to use status moves in other RPGs too, not just Pokemon. SMT 3 and 5, Dragon Quest 11, Dragon Quest Monsters, etc, all have some powerful status moves that made them worth using. Even if we just stick to Pokemon I can't imagine not using status moves since they just add so much more depth to the gameplay. Granted I also place other restrictions on myself when I play through a Pokemon game, like using Set Battle (if the game has it, thanks SV), not using any items in battle (except pokeballs obviously), and constantly swapping out Pokemon from my PC to my party which keeps me a little under levelled, and no legendary Pokemon (though this is flexible, it depends on their BST). These restrictions almost force me to use status moves because I usually can't just click Flamethrower with my level 88 Typhlosion because my Typhlosion is 10 levels below the gym leader's Pokemon.

[@SerDerpish]

The samey feel of pokemon combat during any its vanilla campaign doesn’t come from status moves. It is because the devs are prioritizing accessibility by removing the challenge to the point where they don’t force the player to actually engage with the mechanics in any meaningful way besides spamming super-effective attacks. Having switch battle style as default and removing set mode play a part in this, IMO. You can only find that kind of experience from pokemon ROM hacks made by players frustrated by that very philosophy. TL;DR: it’s not a problem with the combat system, it’s that in 9 generations, you are never forced to learn it 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@Just_A_Husk]

Hey N0rtist, I think it would be cool if you handled pokémon's battle ai in the next video! I feel like it interconnects nicely with why the campaigns of pokemon are easy

[@scorchinglizard]

Have to shout out tera raids for letting me go silly with status effects. Oh my calm mind miracle fire acid spray flamethrower armarogue

[@andream8655]

Oh my gosh, your guys can talk!!! Blablablablbablblalah!!!

[@karlcole5617]

another way to make people consider status moves is what tvtropes calls the smash mook. it is just a huge, blunt challenge that requires you to be smart or you fail, due to them just having bigger numbers.

[@Absbor]

when i turned roughly 16, i started to appreciate stat moves more. charge and discharge are one of my favourites.

[@moodle6500]

very cool stuff as usual

[@sinisternorimaki]

I'm still surprised each time I see people talking about how difficult the Ultra Necrozma fight was. I don't remember it being difficult. It's not that I remember it easy either, it's that it didn't left a notorious impact on me in the slightest. The Ultra Lusamine one, now that's one I remember fondly.

[@josephbulkin9222]

Bold of you to assume i was even able to overlevel in the first place

[@peperoni_pepino]

I did use a lot of status moves in my casual playthrough. They were just called 'items', as I wasn't going to waste one of my 4 possibles moves. Between healing items and X-Attacks, the only Status move I actually kept were DDance on my Garchomp and SDance on my Scizor, as they are more effective than X-Attacks. I haven't played the Necrozma game, but I'm sure you could pp-stall it with sufficiently many revives. EDIT: SDance on Garchomp, DD on Haxorus a gen later. Confused them, it's been a while.

[@edgargaebolg9307]

Garchomp can't learn DD my guy

[@peperoni_pepino]

@edgargaebolg9307 Oops, I meant SDance on Garchomp as well. Confused with gen 5, I had DDance on Haxorus.

[@dadadabest2237]

Satus moves are even made less important starting gen6, especially gen7, where the npc trainers often have only 1 or 2 pokemons with em, so the most viable strategy is just to mega or just one shot your opponent with a z-move to end the battle.

[@DottieRuebens]

waiting so patiently for the Libra one

[@poppyfrancis7338]

To me, the thing I find ridiculous is the notion that a given trainer would just focus on one specific type. Now, don't get me wrong. Trainers with type themes aren't bad. Unless they're gym leaders or the elite four, then its inexcusable and part of the reasons the games have become so easy, along with the way they handle held items and EVs post gen 5 (barely at all). The easiest fix is to actually build a team for these trainers with mechanics that require more thought than just clicking the super effective button, which like would also mean allowing the opposing trainer to switch whenever they want

[@akirandrake414]

I want the return of the fast and strong style to allow for set up then attacking back to back.

[@derickviana9831]

Its not a problem about moves, its a problem about Super Effectiveness. If the damage wasnt multiplied battle would be longer and status moves would matter more.

[@Muffin86700]

6:51 my entire time in the pokemon fanbase, I was told that ultra necrozma was one of the hardest fights ever, and when I finally got ultra moon and reached the ultra necrozma boss fight, I ended up 2-shotting it💀

[@bassman9261995]

Status moves make way more sense on showdown because they show you the effect. I can see that after doing a swords dance, my attack is 2x. I never understood why Pokémon decided not to show this information

[@nightsofsilver1573]

fair points, and cool liitle guy!