This Tech Is A MYTH!

[@tomschwemberger7559]

Actual physicist here, and the representation of physics here is incomplete. The driving factor in water movement across a membrane is both the relative humidity (partial pressure) and the chemical potential, the latter of which depends on temperature, specifically, it increases with temperature. Just as objects fall from high to low gravitational potential, water diffuses from high to low chemical potential. If you're producing heat and sweating, you're raising the chemical potential in your jacket which makes it energetically favorable to diffuse across the membrane, even if the humidity outside is nearly 100%. You can still sweat too fast of course, or a warm rain makes this less effective. The chemical potential is roughly: \mu = \mu_0 + T*R*ln(C). where C is the concentration of water. Note that the water concentration is in a logarithm while the temperature is linear, thus changes in temperature actually have a larger effect than humidity.

[@bikeradar]

Hi Tom, thanks for your comment - that's a really good point re. increasing temperature on the inside of the jacket when working up a sweat, which can help when it's raining but cold out. Appreciate the insight! Simon

[@StrategyPerformance]

Exactly my thought. Hot inside, cold rain outside!

[@AMehta-ok5pf]

And importantly, what is happening with diffusion is not absolute. The understanding of the issue is incomplete.

[@MsTatakai]

yeah and because of this respiration occurs

[@stiffjalopy4189]

And no matter what, I either get soaked from rain or soaked from sweat.

[@HotKooks]

Weather resistant gear = wet from rain. Waterproof gear = wet from sweat

[@DaveAtkins]

I think the key is that these technical materials are "vapor-permeable". While it's true that the relative humidity during a rain storm is 100% (or near to it, at the altitude where the droplets are forming). But the other thing to consider is that there is (usually) also a temperature gradient across the membrane with the interior being much warmer than the exterior, which means that the water inside the jacket can evaporate, some of this vapor will pass through the material and condense on the outside, and some will condense on the inside (unfortunately). This means that even under wet conditions, the interior can become drier than the exterior over time. If you are working hard and sweating a lot though, it probably won't happen faster than you're producing new sweat. But as an anecdote, I have fallen in a stream while fly fishing, and literally had water flowing through into the bottom of my jacket and out my neck and arms, and then left the stream because it started raining and lightning. And while I was waiting out the storm, I noticed that my shirt had dried out without opening my jacket. Now this is kind of the perfect conditions, it was cool, I was not exercising, therefore I was not producing much sweat, and my body heat was evaporating the water inside the jacket. I've never worn a jacket while it was raining on the bike. But I have done strenuous backpacking with a vapor permeable jacket, and opening the armpit vents for some additional ventilation goes a long way.

[@wilfriedmestdagh1676]

Very interesting.

[@bikeradar]

Hi Dave, thanks for your comment. Yes, you're right that relative temperature plays a role too. I think my overall point is not that the membranes don't work *at all*, simply that they don't work as well as advertised and especially not when you're most likely to be wearing them (i.e. when it's raining). Cheers for watching, Simon

[@4partmedia]

Exactly. Under arm vents on my TNF GTX rain shell literally wind tunnel air into the interior. Maybe sonny should try a TNF.

[@GuyKesTV]

Absolutely brilliant. I’ve been going on about this for years - including when I wrote clothing tests for MBUK, Cycling Plus, What MTB and Bikeradar. Always choose a soft shell over a ‘waterproof’ if you’re actually pedalling and producing significant heat rather than just uplifting or going super steady.

[@VYBEKAT]

Pit zips. I won't use a jacket without em. Some jackets even have multiple vents that let air out but don't let water in. I've been using the Columbia Outdry which uses a rubbery feeling Urethane exterior. No need to reapply toxic PFAS Is it breathable? I don't know, but it has pit zips and that's what actually works

[@neilmdon]

it isn’t *quite* that bad but close. We tend to be quite hot when working hard and, crucially, we will heat up the air near our bodies. That is the whole point of sweat after all, which transfers so-called “latent heat” to the air, but there is also a fair bit of “sensible heating” of that air near us. So the cold wet air outside that is nearly saturated in the ambient air will be much less saturated near us because the *absolute* humidity stays the same while the *relative* humidity goes down as temperature rises. This is also why it is so dry inside during wintertime even though RH is typically quite high during winter (especially in Ireland, lol). Sooooo, our sweaty selves have some room to also raise the *relative* humidity near our bodies by evaporation of that sweat (and because of the fun physics of mixing that vapour can condense a bit away from us, thus the steamy sweat or in fact steamy breath). All in all the physics of this heat transfer do not change much with the presence of the semi-permeable membrane. All that does is change the mass transfer rate away from our bodies, and there is no question at all that the membrane will slow that transfer. It is *that*, not the saturation thermodynamics of water and water vapour, that ultimately limits the capacity of these things to keep us dry. (I am actually a meteorologist so I have some reason to claim some expertise here).

[@bikeradar]

Hi Neil, thanks for the comment - yes, you're correct that relative temperature plays a role too. I think my overall point - which I hope comes across - is that the membranes do work, just not as well as advertised when you really want/need them to (i.e. when it's raining). Cheers for watching, Simon

[@camonin]

Granted, my Gore Shakedry jacket does not keep me dry because I'm sweating, but it keeps me comfortable even in miserable conditions. One of the best purchases I have ever made and would buy another at full MSRP, if the original model was still available.

[@enigma1000]

So no concern for the environment, given what we now know?

[@stiffjalopy4189]

This is why on rainy days I usually go either merino wool base layer, then wind stopper fleece outside. I know I’m gonna get wet either way, but I stay warm. I only bust out the Gore Tex when it’s close to freezing or super windy. But tbh, at that point I’m looking at the trainer.

[@Rekmeyata]

Yeah I found that out the expensive way. Bought a GoreTex rain jacket and I got soaked in a downpour. That crap is only good for misty rain. Prior to that I had vinyl cycling jacket, the rain never got through that, but the sweat got me soaked. I then bought a Showers Pass Syncline CC jacket, and I'll be damn if that jacket, which cost me $45 on sale 6 years ago, is now on sale right now for $60, works better than the much more expensive GoreTex jacket I threw away in discust! There is some degree of sweat build up, but nothing like the vinyl jacket, but overall I'm less wet by far vs either of those other two. I bought the red color called FireCracker red for better visibility then the other colors they showed during downpours, but since I bought mine they came out with a yellow color, not sure how those two would compare in a darkened downpouring storm for visibility. Showers Pass uses their own Artex fabric, so it's cheaper than GoreTex, but works better than GoreTex.

[@HS-iu2nv]

Yes and no. When it's warm inside the jacket the absolute humidity can be way higher inside than on the (cold air) outside. Of course it only goes so far. On a rainy commute I have to adjust my speed so I reach the office in acceptable condition 😀. And regarding PFAS. You are absolutely right. That stuff should be banned in my opinion. The average frying pan and rain jacket are unfortunately marginal compared to he amounts that are still used in various industries.

[@bikeradar]

Yes, you can force the humidity inside your jacket higher than outside, and then there will be a partial pressure gradient... But by the time that gradient is created, are you not then very sweaty? Some of that moisture will transfer across ofc, but not quickly enough to keep you dry IME. As you say, the important part is managing it properly - it's not that the membranes don't work *at all* just that their performance has been overhyped. Cheers for watching, Simon

[@HS-iu2nv]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Could you also make a video on coating? I have yet to find a non pfas based coating that works as well as one with. I have even brought a heat pump tumble dryer with a dedicated program for heat activated water repellants.

[@thecampingastronomer8554]

This is a very interesting video, however I do feel that it tempts you to a conclusion that there is no point in buying any waterproofs more expensive than a pacamac. In my experience this is simply not the case. An important consideration is that a temperature gradient builds up between the inside and the outside of a jacket, particularly when exercising at moderate to high intensity (hill walking and cycling in my case). The higher temperature inside the jacket will help drive internal vapour through a breathable membrane. Although far from perfect, a breathable membrane works far better than a pacamac type jacket in this respect. Adding pit zips to a jacket makes another big difference in keeping down the moisture inside the jacket. In addition, more expensive jackets usually have better quality waterproof zips or stormflaps, which are leakage paths in basic jackets. Also, higher quality designs focus on things like a well fitting hood, which helps prevent water getting in and running down your neck. Ditto for wrist closures. Having said that, it is a fallacy to think that the most expensive jackets will keep you completely dry. One of the more highly regarded waterproofs on the market for UK mountain conditions is the ME Lhotse which costs around £500 currently. If the conditions are bad enough for long enough, you will still start to feel damp inside after a while. Partly this is due to the breathability not able to keep up with the high workrate involved in hiking up mountains and partly it is because all jackets (no matter how expensive) have 4 big holes in them (two for your arms to poke through, one for your head, and one for your legs) which water eventually finds a way into. I think that a conclusion should be that no waterproof will keep you totally dry in all conditions, but (up to a point) the more money you spend, the better the jacket will perform. Whilst there are diminishing returns at the highest price points for most of us, mid level jackets should keep us mostly comfortable for several hours in poor conditions.

[@bikeradar]

Hi, thanks for the comment. I think you're totally right that more expensive jackets will have other features that make them better than cheap ones, and I agree a membrane-based jacket will work much better than a totally impermeable one... The point I'm trying to make is that I feel the performance of these membranes is overhyped and there's a sleight of hand going on with the term 'breathable waterproof' - when you can't get the best of both aspects at the same time. FWIW, I still use membrane-based waterproof jackets, and - as you say - they can be really useful in certain scenarios, but I'm just more realistic now about what they can realistically offer. Cheers for watching, Simon

[@11robotics]

"Not only have brands been lying to you, but we, in the media, have been lying to you too!" Truth has been spoken. PS: this is an excellent video, we need more of these marketing myth debunking videos.

[@senseye1977]

Excellent content. As an avid bike rider myself, I think we all need to wake up not to get much into the hype. This is evident in all cycling products and I really appreciate videos like this.

[@bikeradar]

Thanks for watching! Great to hear you like this type of video - Felix

[@jahen65]

I have often been slightly disappointed by rain clothes with membranes and experienced that I got very damp and wet from the inside… Never really understood why and just blamed the jacket hence I didn’t had the money to buy the high end stuff… This very good video explains why 😊 Makes me re think it and might just settle with ‘it is what it is…’😊

[@maxsievers8251]

I'm not a purist but last year I gave wool a try and it's true that it still feels good and not too cold when wet and also it doesn't attain body odor. So it's a good choice especially on multi day events.

[@maxsievers8251]

When it's quite cold you can see the water vapor escaping from your hot skin and also from breathable fabric (you see it condensating). But at that time you are definitely wet and you won't return to being dry unless you change clothes. The magic effect of staying dry in the rain might happen when you stand in the rain to have a smoke or waiting for the bus - with the minimal amount of sweat.

[@psychoal1967]

Garments stop breathing if they 'wet out', that is why Shakedry is so effective. However, it is possible to out sweat the ability of bare skin to evaporate moisture, under such conditions it appears that breathable garments don't work.

[@stormeporm]

I like the example of riding on a dry sunny day in your t shirt. Its really breathable but you still get wet. If under those perfect conditions you don't have enough vapor transfer its not getting any better in the rain with a raincoat on.

[@Pieterpittigeportiepeperpathe]

I am told that not only humidity gradient plays a roll, but the temperature gradient as well. So the higher the temperature on the inside of a jacket and the colder on the outside, the faster water vapor is transported to the outside. That would than probably help when the humidity on the outside is closing in on the humidity on the inside.

[@bikeradar]

Yes, temperature plays a role too - if it's cold outside, then the fabrics will breathe better than when it's warmer. I think the overall point is that they simply don't work as well as advertised (i.e. they're not amazingly waterproof and breathable all at the same time when it's pouring with rain). Cheers for watching! Simon

[@lborisfromlv426]

2:30 in, that's a paramo. That's totally different and is the only waterproof that has kept me dry in the rain when working hard.

[@nickporter3531]

The key is to be able to stay warm enough and dry ENOUGH. My experience cycling and mountain walking has been that you will never (despite what many manufacturers say…) be able to not be wet with sweat at l some point. I like using natural fibres wherever possible (wool and silks are great base layers) and gear that’s going to remain warm even when it sets out. Cycling is always going to be a challenge due to the necessity of closer fitting clothes - so the gabba / soft shell approach & windproofs has always made more sense than waterproof/breathable gear to me.

[@bikeradar]

Hi Nick, thanks for your comment - yes, I agree the goal is to stay warm and dry enough. Cheers for watching, Simon

[@yumyumhungry]

So why is it that a cheap plastic jacket is a hot clamy miserable experience while a modern jacket with this tech feels less sauna-like? Is it really all in my head?

[@IK47-d2l]

It is just placebo effect, give some people some sugar pills that look like medication and they will tell you they feel better

[@ryanw8987]

I'm guessing there's still a possible benefit to these materials where moving through the air might increase evaporation so there's still a bit of transfer, though not much. Combine that with the fact that cheaper rain shells also often lack other venting like underarm zips and the like, and I'm sure the higher-end jackets are still helpful. Just not nearly as much as the price tag would have you believe

[@fallenshallrise]

I don't think you're imagining things. As far as the heat a thicker material is bound to insulate better. Also a lot of study has gone into the texture of materials and why some feel "clammy" and some don't even if they are equally wet. It's a real effect. Some materials can feel wet even when they are bone dry, kind of like wearing rubber gloves and feeling like your hands are soaking wet when they are actually dry due to the temperature and texture of the surface.

[@enigma1000]

It probably depends on the fabric structure on the inside. I have a fleece that never feels cold or wet, it’s not waterproof. My goretex jackets all get wet inside, mainly from sweat I assume, and they can feel cold and wet.

[@bikeradar]

Good question - it's not that membrane-based fabrics don't breathe in wet weather at all, and they certainly will allow better moisture transfer the an impermeable shell... They just don't work as well as advertised IME. I think the takeaway is simply to be realistic about the performance a waterproof jacket can offer and if you're going to be riding hard enough to work up a serious sweat, then maybe a hardshell jacket isn't the best option for that ride. For easier rides, a hardshell waterproof can be really useful, but spending hundreds of £/$s doesn't mean the tech can suddenly defy physics. Hope that helps - cheers for watching. Simon

[@dewindoethdwl2798]

The only time I’ve found breathable fabrics work is when it’s well below zero. As a consequence the conditions inside the jacket are warm & humid and the conditions outside are bitterly cold and dry. This lets physics kick in and the difference draws moisture out of the jacket. In the UK the humidity inside and out can be near equal, not enough to let moisture migrate outwards quickly enough, especially when working up a good sweat. Hence, it’s just an expensive boil in the bag experience. Better to accept being damp and work on minimising wind-chill.

[@PrzemyslawSliwinski]

I was frankly never able to persuade myself I needed a jacket worth an Alivio group (say). But I like and appreciate the "wind stopper/softshell/whatchamacallit) gear, especially in the rainy/snowy days when it nicely blocks the cold wind.

[@HotKooks]

What you said sounds more like a crossword clue than a statement or opinion. Also, live a winter in the Pacific Northwest and tell me you appreciate Windstopper on a rainy day 😂

[@PrzemyslawSliwinski]

@@HotKooks Yup! I subconsciously hide it beneath a few unbreathable layers... PS I will verify my appreciation in five minutes! ;)

[@AndyRides]

Great vid. So we've been conned. The one time you'd use a rain jacket it won't work in that you get sweaty. I've never read this on any menufacturer's website. If they do mention it; it's not easy to find.

[@bikeradar]

Thanks Andy - glad you found it useful. I don't know if it's quite as black and white as that - a good rain jacket will keep you dry when raining and if you're not working hard enough to induce a lot of sweat then ofc it should keep you dry/comfortable on the inside too... But there's basically a limit and, yes, when it's humid outside (i.e. when it's raining!!!) then the breathability of the membranes is going to be compromised, so you 're still going to get wet inside if working up a sweat. Cheers for watching, Simon

[@diehardbikes]

I just got to the point, being a rider with a deep love of CX, that you will get wet. I accepted that. Now, being wet and super obviously sweaty isn't appealing. So I just go with this: you are going to get wet. Ok. So the challenge isn't to stay dry, its finding the right balance of staying warm. Not too bundled, just enough. Sometimes fleece lining is too much. Sometimes, you need 2 layers of it. Sometimes you need a baselayer, jersey, arm warmers, and a thermal fleece lined jersey. Sometimes if it's just a light mist, you just need a thicker jersey with no fleece lining with sun sleeves. This is the reality of the rider riding in the elements. As a shop, I have no problem selling you a $300 jacket if that's what you want. But as someone who wants you to be happy with your choice, I urge you to recognize my above words as the truth. Stay warm my friends.

[@JohnnyCarlsen]

There's also something off with the 10,000mm water column rating. It sounds like a lot of rain, but it's actually a measure of water pressure. How much water pressure or equivalent mm water column would that correspond to if you're cycling at 30 km/h and the rain is coming at 25 km/h? ChatGPT said 11896mm 🙂

[@spare9434]

this is why i run/hike/ride in paramo

[@OnzaRob]

its not about staying dry on the bike, but staying warm. Soft shell for the win!

[@MrShaneSunshine]

I wear a woolen christmas sweaters all year round. Wet and warm with a comforting itch! 😂

[@bikeradar]

🥲

[@savagepro9060]

The only thing that can not get wet is . . . water!

[@markhay1664]

🤔 I kinda new this venting is key and a good base layer. I won’t pay over £60 for a light weight shell with vents.

[@steveb0503]

I wonder if you could utilize one of those inflated-costume blowers to make the water vapor escape even when it IS raining.

[@4partmedia]

Oh hell naw, b. My The Northface GTX Goretex kept me dry in torrential rains for hours. It was all sorts of heat dissipation, especially under arm vents.

[@speedysmart1]

Whilst this is not new news, it is more than worth repeating and I love the additional information about what it is actually made from and its impact on the environment. I feel this needs a PS - relative humidity is high in the UK and is higher when cold due to the air not being able to contain as much water. That is why the Alps do not feel as cold in the winter (as you think it should at -20) or as hot in the summer - due do the low relative humidity. This is why you will still sweat in the winter when wearing breathable waterproof materials.

[@Tourdewhat]

This is a very good video. Congrats.

[@davehause8571]

Yep, gore-tex works best when it's cold and dry. Great for skiing.

[@sebstott3573]

Great work on this 👏

[@bikeradar]

Thanks Seb 👍 hope you're doing well, from all at BikeRadar 🌟

[@bikeradar]

BikeRadar misses you Seb! - Jack

[@malcontent_1]

Thank you - very timely video

[@meanredspider]

This is stuff on waterproofing I always knew (as did anybody that understands the science). The fabric that I’ve always believed is waterproof and breathable is called “skin” and, fortunately, most of us have a tight-fitting version. I do, however, have one of the original Gore shake-dry jackets because I live in Scotland and, whilst some clothing keeps you dry whilst damp (I have a Gabba - not too impressed), if it’s being constantly saturated whilst in an airstream, you are likely to get cold. Your point about PFAS is 100% correct. I work in product compliance and PFAS is a very hot topic ( find the film “Dark Waters” if you want to know more whilst being entertained). Most US retailers won’t touch anything with PFAS in. Europe is catching up. As you say, they aren’t harmful in normal use so don’t get rid of your Goretex.

[@davetbassbos]

Skin is the only real waterproof and breathable membrane, so just tough it out and wear as little as possible within the norms of your culture. Of course I mean for strenuous exercise close to home, Out in the wild (or sitting in an office with damp shoes all day) is a different story.

[@magicknight8412]

No more Gore clothing being sent to bike radar for review !

[@IK47-d2l]

Haha they got blacklisted for sure, but I really appreciate bike radar's honesty and professionalism, it is a rare thing these days!

[@magicknight8412]

@@IK47-d2l agreed

[@bikeradar]

Well, it's not just Gore tbf - every waterproof clothing manufacturer says the same stuff IME. I only singled Gore out in this video because they invented the PTFE membrane tech and I thought the history/context of that was important. Cheers for watching, Simon

[@Pieterpittigeportiepeperpathe]

So I kept thinking a bit and I think it's not true what's being said. What is well known is that the outer fabric of waterproof garments is coated to make this water-repellent. This coating wears of over time and when washing the garment. The coating has to be reapplied again. Without the coating the outerfabric would get soaked in the rain and than there would be film of water on the entire membrain. In that case the garment wouldn't breath at all. Now I sure as **** feel the difference between an uncoated and coated jacket in the rain. I am sorry, but I think it's time for a paradigm shift in natural science.....😄

[@HS-iu2nv]

Good point, the better the coating works the better the membrane can breathe.

[@bikeradar]

So the DWR coating (the thing that makes the after bead up and run off the fabric, rather than soaking in) does make a big difference, yes - and if a coating has worn out, then, yes, a membrane won't be able to breathe at all - but the main thing is that even if the outer layer isn't saturated, the air outside is almost completely saturated with water vapour when it's raining. There will still be some breathability if there's a temperature gradient (hot inside, cold outside) to help, but it will be limited and no where near as good as what's advertised. Does that make sense? Cheers for watching, Simon

[@Pieterpittigeportiepeperpathe]

@bikeradar Yes of coarse that makes sense. When running I rarely use a waterproof jacket. Instead I use a jacket that blocks a bit of wind (so not even windproof!). Your activity is a big factor as well. Just walking in the rain, Gore Tex is really comfortable.

[@CYBERBUNS]

Good journalism. Thank you. Appreciated

[@biketrybe7071]

Thanks for calling BS on the BS.

[@selinov]

This content got me to re-subscribe. 👍🏾

[@bikeradar]

That's great to hear! Feel free to let us know what made you unsubscribe 👍

[@JibbaJabber]

Well done! Take all marketing with a big pinch of salt, and do your own research if poss. If it still matches your use case, then great.

[@Coolcmsc]

So, are the various PFC's cheaper, or better or both? Or just giving them a miss makes less than a 5% increase in production cost, maybe? Anybody have the facts as this is a facts-based vid? I'm not so stupid as to fail to realise that the convenience for Gore of sticking with their Green (Peace) PFC's might have other advantages over non PFC (degradable) surface chemical treatments.

[@PatParvum]

Alas shakedry is no more

[@Andy_ATB]

I think FortNine did a similar video........

[@tomschwemberger7559]

FortNine's point was that a wet jacket can't breath. Not quite the same, but reached a similar conclusion

[@bikeradar]

Yes, Fortnine has covered this topic, and their video is good too - worth watching. Obviously the demands of cycling are slightly different to the demands of motorbiking, but the fabrics are largely similar so there's definitely a lot of cross over with the points. Cheers for watching, Simon

[@GrassChoppersIreland]

Where did Jack and Joe and Ruben go please. 6:16

[@bikeradar]

Jack is now BikeRadar's digital editor which means he's very busy and important these days! If you keep a close eye on the channel you'll still see him, in fact, check out today's video (publishing 4pm UK time) for more Jack. We still see Joe quite a lot and can even persuade him to get out on a ride every now and then between his freelance work and family time. We did this great video with him earlier this year 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4O6mIxqoN2GjdE&ab_channel=BikeRadar

[@galenkehler]

This is not new information, we already knew that these fabrics only really worked in the mountaineering environment, where its very cold and dry, since the 80s when they really gained popularity

[@bikeradar]

Hi Galen, thanks for your comment - it may not have been new info to you, but it was to me so thought it was worth talking about. Hope you still found it interesting/entertaining? Cheers for watching, Simon

[@bk83082]

Man reads data... In cold, wet weather a membrane shell will perform far better than a PVC rain shell. I'm from a temporate rain forest, discussions of water on the molecular level are worthless in comparison to years of saddle time commuting through rainy winters.

[@bikeradar]

Yes, membrane-based waterproof clothes will definitely work better than impermeable shells... But the performance is simply overhyped IMO - they work, just not as well as advertised. Cheers for watching, Simon

[@Pieterpittigeportiepeperpathe]

Around 4:25 sounds like a religion 😂

[@Paul9]

PARAMO!

[@larryfinke6133]

Loki!

[@Raymond-Farts]

What about carbon fiber and it's impact on the environment? I think it should be banned also.

[@bikeradar]

Maybe one for a future video - thanks for the idea! Simon

[@anthony-xk8wc]

🏋‍♂️🏋‍♂️🏋‍♂️

[@nelsonsilva6842]

Well, let's just say that you are very late to the game! Or maybe now that EU is on to it and manufacturers have to change you can just tell the truth. Anyway Fortnine was way ahead on this marketing mambo jumbo! At the same time how can someone believe this, you have water outside, you have sweat inside how the hell will you be dry!?!?! Now Gore what, would never buy anything from them ever!

[@bikeradar]

Better late than never? Agree it would have been great to have made this video earlier, but I only found out about this recently. Did watch Fortnine's video during research for this one, though, and I agree it's excellent - it's a great channel. Cheers for watching, Simon

[@IK47-d2l]

I can't believe there are people who believe breathable waterproof fabrics are legit.. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@johanrr4]

Try a gore-tex jacket and then something made of plastic and tell me it isnt legit. Its nowhere near perfect but it makes a hell of a difference in my experience

[@treimar]

​@@johanrr4When it's raining it doesn't really matter.

[@JibbaJabber]

@@IK47-d2l They are. However, I find they only work well during passing showers, as opposed to constant rain.

[@moozeex1]

Now that Trump is a president even reviews became True ... What a time to be allive

[@bikeradar]

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