This Was Slightly Nicer Than Expected

[@testoftempest]

Timestamps! 0:00 Intro 1:04 Why Won’t Vaush Debate Nick? 5:30 IrishLaddie 6:50 Twitch Cracker Ban 13:00 The Right’s ideology 15:08 Fix Political Polarization 17:16 Does the right have any good points? 21:38 “They Don’t Go To Church” 24:26 GUNS 27:03 Alt-Right Debates Got Boring 30:40 Mr. Girl 41:29 Why Should Right Wingers Change? 44:24 BreadTube Dying? 54:20 Pre Screened Callers 1:07:50 What Would Vaush Change in America? 1:09:40 SOTUS 1:13:00 Trump or Biden? 1:17:40 Explain The Picture Vaush! 1:21:40 Beverly Hills Rich Kid 1:33:20 Immigration Talk & Birth Rates 1:43:45 What Does Vaush’s Intro Mean? 1:45:45 Religion/Final Thoughts

[@karasu9]

excellent video title. good job on that title tempest

[@twilightpshye3859]

K pnołllhyyu

[@felicityc]

Easy mode: Dissonant Right Normal mode: Dissident Right Hard mode: Dissentient Right Sudden Death: Dissidia Right

[@Soren59]

😂😂

[@SatyreIkon]

👏👏👏

[@codemonster8443]

Nice to see us Vaushites not falling for this guy's niceness which he is putting up to try and scoop some of Vaushites.

[@wodidos]

imagine calling yourself a vauSHITE. eeew

[@wryd4sound]

@@wodidos we are simply reclaiming the slurs used against us 😤

[@TonyAncom]

@@wodidos Cope harder. We still love you

[@KalinTheZola]

Yeah every time I saw a singular vaushite be like "woah this guy is actually based?" I just kept thinking "... you realize he's a fascist right? He's obviously mask on." and of course he ended up slipping a little bit.

[@L0neSiPh0n]

@@wodidos It's because of the Irish origins of course

[@almosthelpless9374]

I can't help but feel that this guy is hiding the ball. Tucker Carlson sounded really nice and reasonable at Politicon a few years ago since he was able to read the room. Saagar Enjeti was able to keep this type of performance up during the Democratic primary but then dropped it later in 2020. I'm still skeptical.

[@xboxollieify]

Andrew's online persona is BigPapaFascist, He's about as far right as they come.

[@veel60]

Don't worry, this guy is still a huge fascist, that dogwhistled multiple times.

[@kkounal974]

This guy is literally radiating "I'm malicious and hiding my true intentions" vibes. The tone of his voice and his choices in framing makes it obvious.

[@andrewmilos2342]

@@kkounal974 overwatch

[@mc-ps-playa5569]

@@andrewmilos2342 Winston: overwatch

[@sven6574]

Don’t forget that this guys name is literally “big papa fascist” he might seem reasonable here, but I promise you he is just playing to the audience

[@RedShocktrooperRST]

How can he be so concerned with optics and still call himself, straight faced, a fascist?

[@jackskellingtonsora]

@@RedShocktrooperRST Because being a fascist isn't optically a bad thing anymore. We live in a world of people who grew up after WW2 and nobody knows how bad they actually are.

[@CynicalBastard]

@@jackskellingtonsora That isn't true, either. We all know how bad Stalin was, that doesn't stop people from being communists of a different sort than Stalin was.

[@pocketzed3481]

omg it's THAT guy?! didn't Vaush debate him before?

[@deathdealer312]

@@CynicalBastard Are you trying to say there are good ways of fascism? Not trying to accuse you of anything, I genuinely have no idea what your comment means

[@inurokuwarz]

I only caught the last half of this convo live, but I was geniuely suprised at how effective the host was at propaganda. He was able to bring up a lot of right wing talking points, but never steering into the easily dunked on talking points. Like, how he was able to make anti-jewish, anti-immigration talking points while being pro-globalism. It's interesting what he leaves unsaid so that his fascist audience can fill in the blanks, while still managing to sound progressive enough to lure in more left leaning people.

[@cheesedaboss4851]

Yea he's smarter than most on the right and actually seems to have some principles and rhetorical skill. Because of this, I find him more interesting to listen to, but that also means he's more dangerous than most.

[@TheMaskedPikmin]

@@aman-qj5sx at the start he did say he was a fan of doctor Jones, who is about as obvious an anti-semite as you can get

[@Bri_1219]

He talks like your racist uncle if your racist uncle had an ounce of tact. Any progressive person "lured" by politeness was looking to turn right anyway, imo

[@usingtiltcontrols3695]

Fuck, I didn’t even notice that. I need to get better at identifying that kind of stuff

[@shavedata5436]

@@aman-qj5sx His objection to Vaush's air-quotes hollywood was a little sussy

[@johnleoks7642]

To those who can't hear the guy, it's "Dissident Right", which refers to the various factions of the right that are dissatisfied with the current GOP. Just a weird hodgepodge of out of place right wingers whose values are not represented by mainstream conservatism, ranging from economically leftwing conservatives to white nationalist secessionists to white supremacist accelerationists to Christian nationalists.

[@dr.madmad3224]

2016: We’re alt-right! 2022: We’re dissident right! Saagar: NO, we’re populist right!

[@SatyreIkon]

Thank you. I was wondering what he was referring to and was about to google it when I saw your explanation.

[@kap1618]

Remember Richard Spencer? Being nice isn't a sign of a good person. Hell even sociopaths can do it.

[@Dryym]

To be fair. Sociopaths aren't inherently bad people. They have a lack of empathy, Which often leads to bad outcomes, However it's absolutely possible for a sociopath to be moral simply because they just do not want to hurt people and see no reason to do so. There's a lot of really fascinating firsthand accounts from sociopaths about how they live moral lives by adhering to a strict code because they just don't want to hurt others. Just because you can't feel empathy, It doesn't automatically make you a monster. It just makes it *harder*.

[@Yo-sb9st]

@@Dryym I think ur describing psychopaths. Psychopaths are often good ppl because of society, sociopaths are a lot different

[@Dryym]

@@Yo-sb9st To my knowledge, A lot of the differences in classification between sociopaths and psychopaths is somewhat archaic, Inconsistent, And are not how these things are officially recognized in a modern medical setting. If we use that classification, I believe the primary distinction is that psychopaths are born, Whereas sociopaths are made. However I believe the modern medical usage is to refer to anti-social personality disorders as a group of related mental disorders which cause certain distinct personal traits. I do find though that in casual conversation, Sociopath carries less violent connotations. When I hear sociopath, My initial instinct is someone who lacks ability to feel certain emotions towards those other than themselves. Whereas psychopath gives images of someone physically violent and/or manipulative who sees nothing wrong with such actions.

[@crypt5129]

​@@Yo-sb9stAren't they basically the same

[@Yo-sb9st]

@@crypt5129 they can be similar, but it’s very difficult for people with anti social personality disorder to function as normal members of society, whilst psychopaths can.

[@worldtec9098]

A wise man once said "I believe that caffeine and nicotine makes protein"

[@triagonalprism9019]

that was Karl "Mad Dog" Marx, I believe

[@lukedoesbutter]

Opiate of the people my ass this s***'s nutritional

[@oldchicken8679]

i don't know what to feel about his virtue signalling towards vaush's audience; when he repeatedly denounced the dissonant right throughout the convo based on past debates i expected bpf to be way more aggressive so when i watched it live it was kinda surreal tbh

[@Axxilles]

He's an optics conscious fascist. No joke. There's clips of him talking about how people like Nick Fuentes will never win the culture war. To my mind, this means that he's in the same political boat, he just wants to paint over the swastika so nobody notices.

[@BleedForTheWorld]

He's bullshitting. Don't believe a word any of these people say. He's not saying what he really believes in.

[@GabiGhita]

Hate is what you should feel. This guy is out recruiting disillusioned leftists in the fallout of the recent Vaush/EJ drama.

[@sp4wn515]

Literally every caller: please give me my 15 minutes of fame, Vowsh!

[@gigiratliff5801]

I was honestly kinda burned out on Vietnam's red-headed stepchild. Glad to hear something lighthearted. Voosh and Conure have been really helpful to me the last couple of days as I have been recovering from getting 4 wisdom teeth out. It's physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting, but the videos have really been distracting me from the nausea/pain. I know you don't do it for me, but thanks anyways. It really has meant a lot to me.

[@indiepedal]

Hope you're doing better 🤙

[@JC-jo9bf]

Hang in. I only had one taken out.......and one was horrible.

[@CynicalBastard]

I hate the "all four at once". No one should have to do the "all four at once" routine. Worst day ever, after that. Then the second day, you almost feel cracked, inside...a bit. It's rough. The first few days are the worst...it gets better. Soon.

[@industrialalliance9905]

The way he so easily sneaks in fascist talking points while seeming reasonable to unsuspecting leftists is astounding

[@CynicalBastard]

Your rhetoric is not so different. You people have the same level of animosity, foist, ingratitude, and just every other "cultural thing" that could be called a misgiving.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@CynicalBastard wow caught one of those fascist lurkers right here *Your rhetoric is not so different. You people have the same level of animosity, foist, ingratitude, and just every other "cultural thing" that could be called a misgiving.* Wow they even have the common vapid “no you” kindergarten level of rebuttal thought too... classic.

[@beforethegate8461]

except the rich @@daniels.1746

[@Sitbear]

Even during their debate I always thought BPF was smarter than most rightists. He’s still wrong though

[@GabiGhita]

Yep, he's a smart fascist. He manages his optics well, which is what makes him more dangerous than your average neo-nazi.

[@wile123456]

@@GabiGhita crazy to think the bar is so low that simply being polite and having basic human social skills makes you appear better than 90% of the right.

[@MysteryKar]

@@wile123456 being polite and having basic social skills make you look a lot better in general, civility politics and all

[@Jjames763]

Really wish Vaush would have gone for the “No shit Sherlock, what did you expect” angle when BPF complained about the other fashies being much more racist than he anticipated, though.

[@alandgomez5905]

@@Jjames763 I just think he was being polite. To be "surprised" by this seemed pretty silly.

[@ultimapanzer]

I’m sorry, but there is no unbroken through-line between “Eastern Orthodox” as this guy ascribes to and “the origins of Christianity”. The Eastern church had just as much evolution and institutionalization as the Catholic church. Study the history of Byzantium and you’ll see that. Christianity in any of its forms today is nothing like it was in its beginnings, just like every other religion that goes on for too long.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Christian nationalists. Fuckin' ahistorical lunatics.

[@anniemarie63]

PREACH

[@zemiron]

This is the comment that I wanted to make. Catholicism has just as much a claim to "the origins of Christianity" as the Eastern Orthodox church does.

[@themightymcb7310]

Big Papa Fascist had his best mask on for this, but honestly it ended up being a pretty decent interview as a result. It definitely would have been less interesting if he was just giving the standard fascist talking points, though I did pick up on quite a few subtle dogwhistles. It might be cool if Vaush rewatched this on stream to pick out the little things in what BPF says so that his audience could be better about assessing cryptofash vibes.

[@josephinehendricks]

I picked up on the more obvious stuff, like him saying he was a fan of the anti semetic nofap guy, and him saying he was anti lgbt, but what else did he say that was sus? I didnt actually hear any dogehistles throughout the convo

[@somedudeok1451]

Oh, that was Big Papa Fascist? If I hadn't read this, I would've never known! I watched two debates with this guy and he definitely a lot more unhinged in those. He's really hiding his power level well here.

[@lucasofmirrah5042]

@@josephinehendricks 1. The way he kept saying “dissident right” instead of alt-right, as a way to rebrand it. 2. Maybe it was just me, but his insistence on saying “racialism” instead of racism was super weird. That’s not a term that people normally use, so I do not know why he would insist on using it.

[@666kittycat666]

The cognitive dissonant right is a pretty accurate term.

[@absenteechild8542]

You actually debated the first caller (echoey anti gun leftist) about a year ago I think. It was on censorship and ethics, his names spelled Sinthe Edit: checked his KZbin, same guy. He has your debate on his channel, he doesn’t upload much so it was easier to find there.

[@alandgomez5905]

Yeah, I couldn't place him lol. I remember he completely fell apart on all of his arguments.

[@武道館-e6h]

I want to correct Andrew on his Japan claims. While Japan has traditionally preferred temporary work Visas rather than a naturalization process, That has been changing, especially in the last few decades. Japan has had several immigration reforms which has made naturalization much easier. There also has been the talk of allowing dual citizenship even from some right-leaning LDP. Japan does give citizenship for those who are able and willing to go through the naturalization process. Currently, the requirements to be naturalized is as follows: 5 years or more of legal residency in the country. The ability to support yourself financially. Being of good moral character (as in you haven't committed any extreme crimes) At least a conversational understanding and literacy in Japanese. Willingness to give up your old citizenship. If you meet all of these characteristics, then you can legally be naturalized in Japan. The idea that Japan doesn't give citizenship to people or that it's rare is untrue. My parents immigrated from Bangladesh. I was born and raised in Japan so I'm pretty familiar with the entire process. It is true that Japan is relatively more isolationist when it comes to immigration, especially compared to the US but one, that has been changing and two, people overstate the "homogeneity of Japan". I can get the fact that "98% Japanese" figure that people often cite is not talking about ethnicity but a nationality which means that people who were naturalized would also fit into the definition of Japanese in that figure but that's another complex topic of discussion..

[@SoSoKayla]

I think more than being truly "isolationist" anymore, the main barrier to effective immigration and ethnic diversification in Japan comes down to one thing - language. Attaining even passable verbal fluency, and especially attaining anything approaching practical literacy, of the Japanese language without _actually_ being in Japan is simply not something accessible or feasible for most people. And given the cost of living and intense career competition throughout the country, its often only those with some star aligned lucky combination of economic privilege, academic opportunity, and capacity for single-minded determination who have so much as an opportunity allowing them to realistically *survive* (much less flourish) in Japan without being able to adequately speak, read, and write the language. Even for most of those, especially when it comes to white Westerners, the most they can ever hope to be otherwise is a total social outsider living amongst other total social outsiders, within pitiful little nests of failure and entitlement otherwise known as expat communities. Gross.

[@phr3ui559]

cringe

[@武道館-e6h]

@@phr3ui559 how so?

[@mckenzie.latham91]

The Kavernackle did an entire segment on why the Nazis love Japan and have yellow fever so bad it’s going to cause them to get syphilis

[@xSixthiSx]

Power level: hidden

[@alandgomez5905]

Ehh, not too well imo.

[@mangojugurtti]

This host is what i mean when I talk about the scary, intelligent fascist. This facade of civility and hiding their contradictory worldviews behind big words and unspecified moral standings. It’s wild to listen to the light sprinkle of propaganda in his “neutral” talking points.

[@ironickrempt]

BPF fails the vibe check so much, it was painful to sit through this live

[@jizburg]

Can confirm. Altho at least he did not start screaming slurs XD

[@cuber3603]

Having a right wing podcast called the crucible is really something

[@stoneagealienz874]

It's a pretty good name to be honest

[@dustin6206]

Probably a Bible reference. There's a line somewhere (don't remember where) about refining silver in a crucible to make it something useful. Smithing silver reference/metaphor in the Bible is what I'm guessing he is referring to with the title.

[@CynicalBastard]

I made a wicked song called 'Strike At The Crucible', way before this podcast was a thing. So, therefore, I'm not impressed that this crucible hasn't been struck more effectively.

[@Ghee_Buttersnaps]

BigPapaFacsist and GigaDaddySocialist have a surprisingly pleasant convo

[@SS-xr7jf]

New immigrants generally don’t compete with the working class. They compete with other new immigrants.

[@capitalistraven]

The real answer on immigration v population replacement is this: since the industrial revolution, and possibly before, resource production has been a solved problem... It's distribution and overconsumption that have been the issue. Put another way: we have enough to meet everyone's basic needs but don't have adequate systems for getting people resources when they need them. Even more simple: if your grandma is hungry... Feed her the rich.

[@cloudstrife746]

Vaush > Maupin

[@zontafer1201]

Hmm... Borger King

[@felicityc]

P(Vaush | Maupin) = P(Maupin | Vaush) * P(Vaush | Maupin) / P (Maupin)

[@Manakete945]

@@felicityc theory

[@wodidos]

Maupin is a charlatan and a nazbol so that‘s not saying much

[@alandgomez5905]

What's a maupin? Also, this is just sophistry.

[@Ardren]

1:37:47 "About 5 percent of births in Israel - around 9,000 babies a year - are the result of IVF. The only country coming close in public funding is Denmark, which funds IVF up to age 45 but limits it to three rounds." US had 75,000 babies via IVF in 2021, about 2% of total births. Just thought the numbers were interesting.

[@inurokuwarz]

"The percentage is lower but the number is higher??????? This must be some kind of trick!!!"- Person Who doesn't understand statistics.

[@ZTanMURReneRs]

Even though Europe has low birth rates, countries that have come close to solving the "how to have replacement birth rates and be rich" issue are in Europe generally. Northwestern European countries do relatively well. France does especially well. Mostly having good childcare, financial support for raising kids, having jobs that pay a wage you can raise a family on, having a lot of parental leave, more flexibility with regard to the roles of people in the house and at work and finally it being more viable and socially acceptable to have parttime jobs rather than fulltime ones are all things that seem to help. Btw if you look at Europe as a whole you get a distorted view because Eastern Europe has such low birth rates although the real absurdly low birth rates are to be found in Asia. South Korea and Japan have absolutely abysmal birth rates, as it seems does China nowadays. It seems like a combination of economic growth, long and hard work cultures and more traditional and conservative social roles and expectations are a bad combination in this regard. Although that's probably way too short on all the issues playing a role in this in those countries.

[@enmysigmaquadrat9464]

Its sad that you can have more civil talks with someone you only agree on a small percentage of topics, while leftists that would agree with you on way more stuff are way more hostile towards you.

[@Dekubud]

Right? It seems like their biggest issue with Vaush is that he isn't self-hating. Actually, it looks like tome that Vaush loves himself, but since a lot of leftists seem to glorify self-hatred if you are man, cis, masculine, white or/and straight, it makes them angry to see a cis masculine white dude being a full on leftist while not self-flagelling. It makes me both sad to see leftists with one or more of those traits thinking it's good to hate themself for it and anger me to see them promote this toxic mentality. That kind of mentality scares me because they don't seem to realise it's a budding facism, just towards the dominant groups.

[@enmysigmaquadrat9464]

@@Dekubud I wouldn't say that leftists glorify self-hatred, or at least not directly. I think its more that most leftists hold values like modesty, self-critique, reflection, love thy neighbour shit. Vaushs whole aestatic don't really fit into this picture, so they intuitivly reject him. It's really sad to see that so many leftists are lead by their feelings and not by their mind.

[@wilder6408]

@@Dekubud I don't mean to be a pedant but Vaush is pan, not cis. He talked about his non-hetero relationships. Otherwise yeah I mostly agree.

[@Bryndleson]

@@wilder6408 cis refers to gender not sexuality.

[@randyohm3445]

@@wilder6408 "Cis" is short for "cisgender" and means that someone is the gender they were assigned at birth, i.e. they are not trans or nonbinary. It has nothing to do with sexual preferences. Vaush is both pan and cis.

[@SarahRoseCO10]

I thoroughly enjoyed this! But I don't think vaush should debate that abortion guy, once you've heard one abortion argument you've basically heard them all and nobody is ever going to have their minds changed on it.

[@alandgomez5905]

"But....it's just wrong [folds arms across chest smugly]"

[@alandgomez5905]

I caught a little here and there, but it took an hour and a half to reeeeeeeaaaally see the dogwhistles and "questions".

[@hunterwhite4394]

Next time you’re asked what law’s you’d implement as dictator “Fair and open elections”

[@alandgomez5905]

Lol

[@zen_tewmbs]

Based and democracy-pilled

[@McbrydeWithaY]

Where did this “Dissonant” right term come from?

[@felicityc]

"It’s a battle that’s both personality-driven and ideological, between supporters of Spencer and the “alt-right” more generally and supporters of the “dissident right” or the so-called “America First” movement, led in part by 22-year-old Nick Fuentes, a former conservative radio host and Unite the Right attendee who is growing in popularity with the white nationalist movement. " is a quotation on wiktionary. lol I think they switched to dissident right to try and sound more serious vs. alt right. sort of like how ancaps became libertarians in america

[@TMKing_MS]

They wouldn't know what dissident or dissonance would be.

[@emilchan5379]

@@felicityc Interesting. Is there any difference between the ideologies of the alt right and dissident right or is it just another attempt at rebranding?

[@alejandrorivas4585]

@@emilchan5379 rebranding mistly, but also a minor refocsing on bad stats over slogans

[@sp4wn515]

Rob's son recently had his first Christmas! Holy shit I hope he didn't strain himself reaching for something nice to say about his friend

[@Nerobyrne]

Step 1: Ignore everything they say Step 2: Claim that every argument is a win for you EZ! That's why nobody should ever debate Nick. Or JesusIsLord ^^ Seems like a lot of people love this strategy

[@Fragenzeichenplatte]

Of course he is nice. Vaush was talking to someone who has the same beliefs as him! /s

[@lurkingposter]

TRUE

[@se7399]

True bestie, \/4U$h should be cancelled

[@infinitivez]

Oh come on, I was just about to go sub to this Crucible channel, up until they admitted to being personal friends with Rob fucking Noerr. So I drop in on to watch Hunter's debate there, and literally see the favoritism taking place. I have absolutely no respect for a show who claims to be impartial to debate itself, but openly broadcasts collusion with certain participants, AND partakes in it during supposed impartial debates.

[@GabiGhita]

Yeah, this Andrew guy just put up an act. His online name is "Big Papa Fascist" and you can find at least one debate between him and Vaush. He's definitely smart and cares about optics, but he's still dishonest. He claims the "fascist" part of his name is a meme because people kept calling him that (wonder why). Anyway, seems he came over to find people who may have started doubting the left after the Vaush/NonCompete drama and try to court them over to the other side (that "we're not all bad" at the end kinda gave it away).

[@angryretailbanker5103]

@@GabiGhita I hate the whole "me calling myself a fascist is just a meme to mock you all" thing. If I called myself "Puppy Kicker Enthusiast" and then entered online debates where my position is that everyone should kick puppies, my ability to say that my name is just a meme to own bad faith insults against me sort of flies out the window.

[@doctahjonez]

@@angryretailbanker5103 Puppy kicker enthusiast lmaoo

[@CynicalBastard]

@@angryretailbanker5103 Meh, leftists are incredibly unreasonable, to the point of being dull. So I wouldn't blame him for using this justification.

[@ash12181987]

I think we need to have a discussion about this guy smoking 14 packs of cigarettes during this stream.

[@Wimikk]

I can smell the studio from my house

[@MysteryKar]

destiny really dropped the ball on this debate

[@adenjones1802]

TRUUUEEE

[@ethanwhitman7956]

Vaush needs to put some respect on Johnny Cash he’s a legend

[@nickv1212]

Terrible music takes guy has terrible takes on music.

[@lunaloveless7234]

I think mr. Girl just wants to be told its ok if he goed to therapy for his tendencies

[@benny399]

What tendencies?

[@JohnBosson]

@@benny399 chicken tendercies

[@benny399]

@@JohnBosson 🐸😏🐸

[@it-s-a-mystery]

Why is their logo a hangmans tree though??

[@666kittycat666]

Because they’re fashies

[@benny399]

.....😏🐸

[@CTGZealot]

The Crucible was a book that discussed a false witchcraft threat in 1600s Salem. Those accused of witchcraft by the girls who are lying, are hung in the end. I'm not positive why this is a book or symbolism to embrace.

[@cv4809]

@@CTGZealot maybe they sympathize with the witches

[@jamesgaston2745]

@@CTGZealot yeah but it's also just a word for a trial or extreme situation that facilitates change.

[@goblin6587]

22:30 these people love god, extremist religion and fascism go hand in hand. The catholic church often stood beside dictators including mussolini

[@macaron3141592653]

the worst part about this interview is how he said Xan and Dylan burns are bad debaters. They're both really good actually. Other people on the left are way worse.

[@nonzerovolta2541]

Don't know about Xan, but bigpapafascist had a debate with Dylan before and lost massively. This dude literally said that if banning interracial marriage would cause a decrease in homosexual activity he would be in favor of it. Actually unhinged.

[@thomkuhle6941]

it felt like a few times at the end there he was basically using you to make his weird ideas sound more reasonable

[@CynicalBastard]

You all have supremely weird ideas.

[@spacecase8888]

This guy needs to realize that, for Christians outside of the United States, the norm is for them to be left wing. And there are very good theological reasons for this.

[@curtbressler3127]

This entire conversation could be summed up as, "Echo chambers are killing humanity!"

[@JARV9701]

This was pretty nice, But I can already hear the tankies preparing their condemnations for Vaush talking nicely with a rightwinger.

[@galedribble9535]

I’m still not sold on the value of talking nicely with rightwingers

[@JARV9701]

@@galedribble9535 I agree with you, but this guy was acting in good faith, so there was no reason to antagonize him, while at the same time Vaush presented his positions and believes.

[@terridactyl5152]

Dissident, not dissonant.

[@Greasy0.0]

A wise man once said i like hard balls they are my favorite kind of balls~Vaush 😂

[@yandere8888]

the fact that vaush didn't try to make the fash make a fool of himself is VERY bad judging by the amount of people in the comment section who fell for his niceness

[@BenYork-UBY]

Not everyone is looking for a bloodbath. Some of us actually want to see civil discussion

[@yandere8888]

@@BenYork-UBY with a fascist? dont give him that kindness

[@zen_tewmbs]

I generally agree that Vaush generally shouldn’t allow fascists to look good in any way. But in this circumstance where it was an interview, where Vaush was given an open platform to express his views to the Crucible’s right wing and fascist audience and most importantly was not given any substantial lines of attack within the context of this conversation, what specifically do you think could have been done better? Remember, you can’t just go in guns a blazing and bring up every fucked up thing they’ve ever done - that’s how Vaush made himself look like a pissbaby in the first Sargon debate. And in a non-debate format like this, it isn’t an option to take a shot that could miss.

[@thepotato513]

Vaush's roast of Rob Noerr at 11:11:24 is hilarious lol

[@bongle3726]

"past a certain point you're just playing tennis against a brick wall" so you're playing squash?

[@caracasaltavista]

This was a great combo!

[@Lou_Skunt]

I remember first watching this insane. Andrew might actually be someone that Vosh could talk to now fast forward to the most recent debate and holy shit. What a psychopath.

[@cruznix4741]

As someone who spent upwards of 8 years in a Roman Catholic institution the religion has very little to actually due with Christ and god and more to due with enforcing a certain way of living. The word catholic/Catholicism doesn’t refer to Christ, but rather means universality or way of being.

[@Dekubud]

When it comes to food, we shouldn't be worried: so, SO much food is wasted that I am not worried about producing enough food to feed everyone on the planetary level. Nowadays, the only reason people are going hungry is because of the selfishness of our capitalistic overlords.

[@jkrt8722]

this is a dumb take. Selfishness is not the issue when it comes to something as cheap and abundant as food, it's just a matter of distribution efficiency.

[@jennanyx4968]

Dude sounds like Bill Hader 😂

[@progguy10]

Ok mask on fascist is kind of a great host. Like he really got some interesting stuff out of vaush. Like he is still facist but he is a good interviewer

[@ira233]

Yea he is a great host and not just to Vaush

[@notreal6762]

I disagree with the way Vaush uses "psychotic" so liberally... The mr. Girl thing has nothing to do with psychosis, and I think it's pretty harmful for people who do experience psychosis to frame it that way. I really like Vaush but I feel like his language is pretty ableist sometimes.

[@it-s-a-mystery]

I've never heard "psychotic" used to refer to psychosis, unless immediately followed by "break". Are you sure this isn't hypersensitivity? Nobody is thinking of or referring to psychosis when they use it. Maybe I'm wrong. I just feel like you could use the same argument for possibly every insult? Even those that are made up on the spot. Edit just to day there's no snark in my comment, I'm not going to be arrogant. I'm just concerned about language policing when it seems erroneous

[@notreal6762]

@@it-s-a-mystery Well, it's literally turning a medical term into an insult, I think that is - in fact- pretty stigmatizing. Just like if you used "autistic" as substitute for calling someone dumb. They don't actually mean that the person is autistic, but it's still ableist.

[@sXePunkV2]

@@it-s-a-mystery The definition of psychotic refers only to a person who is effected by psychosis. There is no other reference to make when using that word. The person above isn't being hyper sensitive or word policing.

[@FelisImpurrator]

I mean, the whole "it's fine to stigmatize people" stance Vaush takes on that specific subject is indicative of a post hoc bias he does have. Clinically speaking pedophilia has like... next to no overlap with actual CSA, most of which is opportunistic predation where only the abuse of power matters, so the biggest association between them is a knee-jerk intuitive bias. This is relevant simply because the ableism thing Vaush is doing in context is actually indicative of a defense mechanism most people have: "This action is so disgusting people who do it have to be diseased or damaged, somehow Not Like Us, because normal people don't do that". Most people subconsciously do this to some extent, to conceptually distance themselves from something they find intuitively uncomfortable. The Mr.Girl thing has nothing to do with mental illness and everything to do with dishonest debate bro optics poisoning.

[@lurkingposter]

Vaush still on his ableism arc. 😞

[@good4gaby]

The Top 3 things Vaush would do as dictator: one of the most exciting internet moments ever

[@JuliaMarieH]

"until I got clean" you mean until you got banned lol

[@cookies23z]

the impression was pretty fucking funny haha

[@galedribble9535]

This guy is being nice to try and win over some vaushites

[@davidc7450]

Re: good stuff Trump did, by far the best thing he did was that he somehow managed to not get us in any additional wars. Probably would have if given enough time but he pushed back against his hawkish advisors. Surprising, but good.

[@stormburn1]

"No new wars" sounds good until you look at his drone strike record. Before he ended transparency measures around them, his frequency and disregard for casualties made Obama look like a dove.

[@itisnotsosimple]

Great convo. Good to see that not all conservatives are bad people. This dude seemed pretty chill.

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

He’s a fascist. He hides it pretty well but that’s what makes him so sinister.

[@itisnotsosimple]

@@unslaadkrosis3489 that's sad to hear. The mask didn't slip once that whole interview. He came across very kind measured and reasonable.

[@zen_tewmbs]

@@itisnotsosimple the mask slipped a number of times, it was just less obvious than the openly raving lunatics we are used to.

[@djStens]

Vaush vs Nick Fuentes would probably be the most entertaining debate of 2022. Idk why Vaush thinks it'd be boring

[@zen_tewmbs]

I don’t find a 5 minute substanceless yelling match interesting. If you do, there’s already plenty of KZbin videos that cater to that interest. Fuentes has gotten off the “discussing topics in a substantive, evidence based way” train a LOOOOONG time ago.

[@Necro-wv7hw]

I think this may be a time of irresponsible platforming.

[@tgreaux5027]

Ill tell you exactly why I never had a kid......I CANT F-ING AFFORD TO! I can barely pay my medical debt and dental bills.

[@Yoshimitsu4prez]

Lmfao holy shit the dude came off non-unhinged enough in this I forgot how hardcore fascist he is. The logo for The Crucible, holy fuck what. Also googled “the dissonant right” and it’s just something this dude made up? I think it just means like, Neo nazis?

[@help4343]

The term is dissident right.

[@Bryan-pz5up]

1:23:11 damn, sitting here feeling the pangs in my stomach knowing its 6am and there's no food in the cupboard got me feeling a bit more revolutionary. Vaush wanna send some of that money my way to NZ so I can pick up some groceries? Love ya big man keep fighting the good fight.

[@butter3754]

As a scottish person, no one really says "laddie" anymore.

[@sorryyouhavekids8659]

You really forget that the brain rot hasn't gotten to the whole of the conservative population.. But loved the topics and the conversation that ya'll had because of this!

[@welsyee]

Well if it didn't they wouldn't be conservative, it's a matter of how far gone you are into it

[@torcaace]

nah he still has it. He just keeps it hidden, judging from his demeanor

[@GabiGhita]

He's smarter and more optics focused than most fascists. The whole point was to appear reasonable and distance himself from the "dissonant right" to appeal to disillusioned leftists in the wake of the Vaush/EJ drama. I was still on the fence about it until the very end where he gave away the game with the "just want you to see we're not all bad". Sure, mister Big Papa Fascist, I'm sure you're not a fascist.

[@ImaginaryMdA]

Nah his brain is rotted, just has the sense to hide it in public. How some apples rot from the inside.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

Ah. So "dissident right" just means fascist?

[@mela1888]

No

[@Univirsul]

Getting hammered off 1 bottle of wine is not a lightweight that's 5 alcohol equivalents (technically considered binge drinking). Most people should be wasted at that point.

[@therandomoguy3809]

can you start putting in the description when the vods you cover happened ?

[@lupin-x2]

Rare for a conservative to be able to actually conduct an interview and have it not turn into an argument

[@AngryShooter]

Nice? He committed the absolute hate crime of praising the horrendous new Berserk anime and you call this conversation nice?! I'm sorry Voosh, but this is where we part ways.

[@alandgomez5905]

Is it the Golden Age trilogy?

[@AngryShooter]

@@alandgomez5905 No I think he's talking about the new series. The Golden Age trilogy is good.

[@alandgomez5905]

@@AngryShooter Right?! I was like 'What's wrong with it?' lol. I guess I'll try looking it up again.

[@Alphabet7]

Hi please do more tankie debates. Especially on China. And India.

[@bucherregaldomi9084]

China is a fascistic regime, they persecute people based on personal characteristics (what we call protected characteristics). China doesn't care about the maximization of individual freedoms, just like America who doesn't care about the maximization of individual freedoms, because first comes the freedom of billionaires and oligarchs in America, before the freedoms of trans people, the workers, or the sick (no Universal Healthcare for us, paid for by taxing the billionaires).

[@hemantkarasala5767]

Enough of those. Need more conversations with conservatives, liberals, pro-capitalist soc dems etc.

[@Axxilles]

Nah, why argue with less than 1% of the population? They get too much attention already. Argue vs libs and conservatives and centrists who make up over 60% of the voting population imo.

[@chrismills7703]

Say what you will about BPF, his Vaush impression is actually really good tho

[@jascu4251]

I think the answer on "how do we stop polarisation": should be somewhat different. I think Vaush is mixing up the substance with the framing, and the framing is important So for example, with Diversity/Immigration, if you change the framing of it, it can look and feel a lot different to conservatives, without changing the substance. Instead of saying "Diversity is our strength, look at all these different languages and restaurants, look how DIFFERENT everyone is", you say "Look at how we are all American, look how COMMUNAL we are" The number of restaurants and languages remains the same, only the framing changes. A depolarised country needs commonality and some level of shared consensus. The right wants to do that through race, but we can soften the appeal of that by focusing on commonality rather than difference

[@Fragenzeichenplatte]

But Vaush said to change the framing?

[@jascu4251]

@@Fragenzeichenplatte If you mean "change the overall framing away from the cultural/social to economic" then yes, but thats not really what I mean. I meant change the framing OF certain cultural issues. Ie We need to de-emphasize cultural differences. Now that doesn't mean that eg a Malaysian-American family needs to stop being Malaysian, what it means is we need to stop with "isn't this neighborhood so great with all these different ethnicities" and say "isn't this neighborhood so great its very friendly and is a great places for kids to play" Some on the left and a lot of liberals exoticize difference, and it can be the difference that upsets Conservatives, and a lot of this can be ameliorated with de-emphasizing that Ie where I think vaush is slightly wrong is in thinking this is economic anxiety masquerading as cultural anxiety (though there is some of that). But I think the anxiety is cultural rather than economic, and can't be swept away by prioritising economics, but can be reduced by emphasising sameness over difference I think a lot to Conservatives, under the hood, want sameness, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that, we just need to be better at learning how to tap into and connect to that

[@Fragenzeichenplatte]

@@jascu4251 "If you mean "change the overall framing away from the cultural/social to economic" then yes, but thats not really what I mean. I meant change the framing OF certain cultural issues. " I meant "of". As for the rest, that is too subjective for me and I don't really have anything tp say in response.

[@adenjones1802]

The criticism I would have of what Vaush said is the part where he said that the harder you work the more likely you will get into heaven. Christianity was founded on the idea that this is untrue. It constantly says that a man is not justified by works but through faith. Working hard doesn't mean shit as far as salvation goes.

[@agabrielrose]

There have been official antipopes

[@samuellancaster9394]

bruh this dude sounds like the night watch guy from fight nights at Freddys lol

[@NaudVanDalen]

Top of the morning to Irish Laddie.

[@panzerfather6886]

WHERE IS VAUSH E-MAIL? I DON'T FIND IT

[@thechief043]

53:07 We all should touch grass more often.

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

I bet it was

[@forloveofthepage2361]

Catholicism is weird says the christian, ignoring the thousands of christian denominations.

[@666kittycat666]

But also “Eastern Orthodoxy was the first Christianity” like, no it is not. The first organised Christian state sanctioned institution maybe.

[@astolfo99]

@@666kittycat666 orthodoxy is (considered ) closer to ''original'' christianity than others modern denominations

[@666kittycat666]

@@astolfo99 I know it's one of the older organised christian dominions but it sure as fuck is not the oldest christian sect.

[@astolfo99]

@@666kittycat666 oh yeah not the oldest

[@cv4809]

@@666kittycat666 who's the oldest surviving sect today?

[@thomasdendtler4077]

Lets play a drinking game! Take a shot everytime this guy says "to be honest with you"- And... I have alcohol poisoning..

[@nielsjensen4185]

You should have listened closer to what the moderator said. "I'm against racialism since it's against Christian values." One thing is what he said, another is what he expressed, namely that if racialism was in the Christian values then he would commit racialism, whatever that is. I'm, sure he would be quite against that, which means that it has nothing with Christian values.

[@SRL001]

Please Mr. Andrew keep smoking three packs of cigs in one hour. It will keep you strong and healthy

[@eurotrash5610]

Nice conversation! If you have more of these you might just continue to exist. Really nice. Me happy. Good to see people disagreeing respectfully and finding common ground in humanity. even though I probably agree with neither of you.Still, much love ...? guys :-)

[@cmore138]

WTF is “dissident right” supposed to mean? Right or wrong answers accepted.

[@TheNosnets]

Smoking on stream😟

[@jessiejoy1703]

Nah these two aren’t giving mrgirl enough credit. Every conversation he’s been in since has been some of the most interesting shit on the Internet. He hits a spot of intellectualism that nobody can reach. It’s uncomfortable and wild

[@Garangus]

Uncomfortable and wild but not because of intellectualism, he just comes off as a fucking creep

[@jessiejoy1703]

@@Garangus he does come off as a creep. But he doesn’t JUST come off as a creep. Anyone being honest with themselves knows he has said things that make you think, no matter how much u might not want to

[@thcrimsnfckr666]

17:16 the only thing old conservative miner unions and me would agree with is that corporations aren't people and if they are considered such it will lead to tyranny they saw it in the 1880s along with more lib unions who tried lobbying against legislation that effectively gave corporations the rights of states but they mostly failed in their efforts sadly

[@james_with_a_z]

Can we get a "dissonant right" counter for thie convo? It's about as much as he chainsmoked in his recent debate

[@HalfBackCrack]

If an undocumented immigrant takes your job you should probably quit being a terrible employee.