Why We Make Others Feel Bad: Understanding Projective Identification

[@heatherwall9571]

We are ALL looking for the love we lacked in childhood. 🙏💙

[@spiralsun1]

This is true. You perfectly described someone I grew up with who does this projection and provocation. I already knew that this is what it was but I didn’t know it was a formal idea from Jungian psychology 😊 Thanks. I’m extremely open (psychological trait) and peoples stuff just zooms right into me. Good or bad. I inherently become a target of projectors. So I’m probably part of the problem because I’m an easy target. Like co-dependence. 🤷‍♀️ Thanks for this so much! ❤ On the positive side, it helps me understand this in myself and prevented me from doing this early on so I’m basically immune and very aware of it. I still project but I definitely notice it most of the time. As an open person I’m definitely less prone to that. But I’m as high on trait openness as it is possible to be 😂

[@sunbeam9222]

" She's not really doing anything. The unconscious is doing it. She's really not aware" thank you. So important to note. The unconscious is non personal. Missing that point makes for so much suffering and blame.

[@MaryDunford]

Agreed. Presumption of conscious intent seems to be the source of a lot of miscommunication and unnecessary retaliation.

[@RippleDrop.]

​@@MaryDunford💯

[@sagelovestodrum]

I'm realizing this with my 31 yo. Wow, before I found this video I experienced what I could only feel as gaslighting. What I was being accused of was not what I was willing to believe. This video, amongst other this jungian life videos have instilled me with compassion in place of defending myself. I am hooked to this channel. (((( sigh)))))

[@c.s.102]

Off course, things were said and done yeah unconsciously and does not mean it did not hurt ... A LOT.

[@kimberlyhelbing]

The cure for the pain is in the pain. -Rumi

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

This is what my family has done to me. Decades and Decades of ''you're sensitive''. ''You're paranoid''. My mother is the one who can accept no feedback at all. My father spent time in a psychiatric hospital with paranoid delusions and it was only in my forties that I thought, no, wait, stop this. Stop putting this onto me anytime I TRY to question your narratives! So when I got this and asked for change, I was shut down, given the cold shoulder, labelled angry, aggressive, detached from reality, insane, unhappy................... I give up. The ONLY way to be included in the family is to accept that I am this angry sensitive paranoid version of myself that allows my parents to feel superior (and disguise their own blindspots)_

[@jagirkaur6216]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnaTfoewiN-el9Usi=cn9Yi2fdl1g5Kfo0

[@sunbeam9222]

We need to stop projecting on others also. I used to view my mum in such a negative light. And ofc that would come to play in our interactions, expectations and interpretations. Today I don't label her, she's just mum, with a multitude of different facets and I really cannot know how each visit will go. Whatever happens is fine by me anyway. I know I love her but that's about it.

[@BL-sd2qw]

Omg, I feel you. They told me that I was paranoid and crazy for complaining about their gaslighting and flying monkeys, yet they are the ones that go around like "you hate me! You do those things to hurt me!" and then try to control my access to my car or bank account. Edit: worst part is that psychs actually believed them and they drugged me to the point of making me lose my consciousness for 8 years, cause me brain damage that they refused to trest and completely destroyed my physical health. I lost my university degree, my dog, my four grandparents, my house, my summer house, my aunts house, my grandparents house, all my friends and my reputation, and I'm still not completely aware of it. It's too much.

[@parry3231]

Craziness is a dangerous and serious problem. We can not make sense of craziness. Egotistical perspectives on the daily life with jealousy and the ability to manipulate the reality into a place of blame,judgment and control. It is best to keep the distance from the people who are seeking power over others and who are actively seeking to destroy the joy and comfort of others. You can not make people change their minds and make them look at themselves in a healthy and sane way. Move forward with a new beginning and the opportunity to realize the importance of not being traumatized by the circumstances that are happening because of unkind and greedy people.

[@Mimzmim-ng2bf]

Everyone never knows the real us because they're too busy making up false versions of us in their heads to fit their narrative or justification for their bad behavior. Wishing you much happiness, blessings and love. Be true to yourself.❤ You're a gift to this world 🎁

[@d3a1990]

I always feel like I’m sitting down listening to three dear friends of the spirit when I hear the wisdom intricately woven in each and every episode of This Jungian Life. Bravo to all three of you!!

[@MrZakatista]

I was probably in 45 yo and had been in analysis for a couple of years when I began noticing this behavior. It really was devastating not only to see it happening, but also to realize that it had always been a feature of every relationship.

[@iloveFreedom.]

Brave to take a look I'm sure ! I bet this means life gets more fun now tho😊 how can we see when we have surrounded ourselves by what we created unconsciously I guess. Now I can see differently amd stumble and fall and get back up again ha

[@sunbeam9222]

The unconscious was not for you to see. We all can only act according to our level of consciousness. Enjoy the new light ✨

[@MaryDunford]

It's pretty unsettling, at first. Then scary. But the empowerment it eventually brings is the great equalizer.

[@nancybartley4610]

Yes, but realization of what we have been doing doesn't necessarily mean we can fix it. If I see myself as a failure, for example, at board games but I love board games and want to play them with others who find my lousy skills boring/ annoying, what do I do? Do I stop playing? Do I tell myself they aren't bored/annoyed and keep showing up at game events? How did you apply your realization that you were projecting to your interactions with others?

[@pearpo]

It isn’t about being lousy at the game, it’s the intensely overly critical attitude you have against yourself and possibly on others, try pausing you negative thoughts about yourself. Observe you negative self-talk without identifying with the talker or the elements of yourself you are criticizing. Just witness how you interact within yourself.

[@SuzaWoof]

I've come to learn that some people run on a completely different operating system, where nothing is compatible with my own programming. There might be workarounds, but in the end it's always way too much work to get what should be the simplest of tasks done.

[@fabio.1]

Well put 🙏

[@persia888]

Agreed. Detach and move on. Believe in the abundance of connections and good people in the world and engage with them ❤

[@wendi2819]

I'm dealing with this very thing right now. I have a friend insisting I become her parent and/or caregiver. She honestly regresses into a helpless young child when we're together. She's handed me butter in a tiny sealed container for me to open. I didn't set a clear boundary. Now she's wailing over my rejection. We're just not good for each other.

[@kathleenb6375]

This episode is so important. Learning to not be seduced into living someone else's shadow is going to save me. I have been living this for 15 years. I had no idea. Such a big piece of knowledge for me.

[@lisbethbird8268]

Interesting Jung's term 'participation mystique', to me, because it did seem like "a spell", very mysterious. I was friends with a person who compulsively and repetitively (and at least initially, unconsciously) acted to annoy, anger, and steal any sense of presence, balance, well being, or contentment (or even safety) I may have in the moment. Eventually, I saw this more and more clearly, after being driven to actual trauma responses a few times. ( Once a ran away out of my own house into a raging storm. Another occasion I froze to the point of dissociation - couldn't move or think.) I attempted many times to talk about this dynamic, and my attempts were always dismissed and often ridiculed or made into a joke. Eventually, fortunately temporarily, I hated my former friend. Then I also hated myself for feeling that way. While I do think that the behaviors were initiated impulsively(compulsively?) and unconsciously, there would sometimes be a point at which I could clearly see that my friend was feeling gratification, and a sense of power and superiority. That calmness would appear ( you could even say smugness) and she would sometimes seem to *consciously*, *deliberately* continue the provocations because my reactions and feelings gave her pleasure and a sense of being the person in control. As clinicians, what do you see as being "under" this repetition complulsion? I have wondered whether she hated herself because of how, for a time, I ended up hating her. That's a very unusual emotion for me...seeming to be from the outside, like a spell cast. Or maybe she hated me, because of how I also ended up hating myself. Could it be both? But do you think that the emotions being projected could also include my friend's *lack* of what she needed to take away from me, namely, balance, presence, contentment, and safety? i.e. " If I can't manage to feel these, you're not allowed to either. " (I guess that would be a type of envy?)

[@lauracicero-miller3238]

It's like they are trying to steal your happiness. It's like they want that from you and are jealous. It took me years and year's to figure this one out. Be you! Sending hugs

[@pada5992]

I have often felt like, when we are overwhelmed and clueless how to act in a situation, we put someone else in this situation and try to learn from THEIR example if they can come up with better ideas. we look for blueprints on what we could do next time we are in that situation and/or we look to finally relive the old traumatic situation from the past in a way that ends well and with healing. so we turn to a person we trust and we feel is strong, and we "ask" them, on a subconscious level, to re-enact the old story so we can a, learn a new attitude and strategy (i.e. answer the questions, get closure on: what COULD i have done, back then? and what CAN i do should a situation like this come up again?) and b, re-live the trauma but with a positive ending, we get the understanding, the positive constructive empathy, we get the consolation, we get the hug, that our inner child still wants. so we hope for a different outcome, but we cannot do anything about it other than bringing the exact dynamic up in max intensity, and hope and pray that one day someone will come up with a better idea about how to react, than what we know so far. it's the first thought i have when a child comes home from kindergarden and starts throwing harsh words around or misbehaving in specific ways. i always picture the child experiencing or witnessing this behavior and being at a loss, about how to deal with it. so they "bring the sample home" and see what the peer group or the adults do with it. does this make sense to anyone? is it a "thing"?

[@breececlayborn1490]

Your meaning is wholly accurate to my own hypothesis. I'm grateful to have my thoughts validated by another person. Thank you for commenting.

[@fadeelaally-schmidt2596]

What's wonderful is that you perceive it as helpful and not personal, and preface the entrusted of the experimental response as strong and safe to try it out on. I love that you see it as compassionate. You've explained family same sex relationships for me. Mother daughter stuff. Father son stuff. As a mother of a 21 year old, I get used as that kind of starting block sometimes more than I can handle. And while I'm aware of its developmental need, the egoic need to be right and make you wrong to test response is harrowing. After time the clarity of my wrong, and the defended positioning of a dissatisfied habit of being, simply exhausts the relationship.

[@sagelovestodrum]

The only way we can benefit from, and not take PERSONALLY...is the asking our angels or guides what to do with accusing accusations you know are not true! That is how I found this wonderful channel. I was heartbroken when this happened to me from a beloved daughter. It helped so much to realize none of it was really "at me". I was able to soften my defenses and put the experience in prospective. I love jungian analysis as I navigate my evolving life.

[@Roswell33]

This is SO COMMON!! I grew up with Narcissists so they obviously did this to maintain their narrative. Then I got out into the world and expected sanity in comparison, I was shocked! I'm neurodivergent and people are so unpredictable and seem to target me a lot!! It's hard doing the work and living in reality, often alone

[@mandyjames8211]

Do you feel there is a crossover with neurodivergence and narcissism? The symptoms often overlap?

[@Emy53]

My goodness, the damage inflicted on children is deep just by words. It's no wonder we are seeing so many children attacking their classmates, and their teachers.

[@ArchBrethren]

@53:36 Lisa hits it on the head here. I don't want this to go unnoticed. For me, I'm experiencing a coworker that's supposed to be training me and he's projecting this sense of inferiority or incompetence. I too have had the thought of meeting that person on that level, but I had to think about why someone would be projecting these strong feelings in such a way. I found myself thinking about what sort of compassion this person isn't showing their self (inferiority) and how I could show them that compassion even if they will not afford it to themself. If I ever found myself behaving as they are, what sort of compassion would I hope someone would show me? In my mind, this is the christ-like attitude. The cure to the internal civil war that Jung talked about when he addressed the clergymen long ago. Thank you, Lisa.

[@pruettstephen1413]

As Joseph said that it is gold to realize what one has been doing but it's also deeply sad to realize that one has spent a lifetime doing the same thing and that it is so deeply crystalized. It can leave one not knowing how to navigate life even if that person's relationship dynamic has been deeply flawed. I have a sign on the exit door to my apartment that reads" withdraw your projections keep your mouth shut."

[@sunbeam9222]

Projections : how our interactions with others is internalized. Thank you. I love it when a discussion starts with an accepted definition for the topic in question.

[@MaryDunford]

Same here. It's refreshing when everyone wants to be on the same page. 😊

[@sd-11-11-sd]

Really insightful talk here. I am certain from my own direct experience that projective identification on the deepest level directly correlates to soul murder. Would love to hear you guys discuss this.

[@saycog1084]

If I make it someone else’s fault I get to be a little child for longer.

[@BEEaTREE]

At what point are we allowed to accept that, while some of us are willing as well as interested as well as more capable of self-healing, self-awareness and self-empowerment, others may simply not have a) the time b) the capability c) the desire for this inner change? And if this is indeed true, is it not also true that we need to find room for compassion? In other words, be where you are on your inner journey (emotionally and psychologically) but don't expect others to be where you are or to even want to embark on a healing journey ... This is the strongest test of self-realization, I feel. Where our progress, our inner changes, our accountability for who we are, our inner growth CAN continue despite being around people who aren't there ... or may never wish to be...

[@BEEaTREE]

The greatest thing about self-healing is that we reach a point where, having come face to face with our own inner suffering, we can see when someone else is operating from a trauma place... This isn't to say they should heal... they may choose not to... This is only to say that healing oneself IS already enough... Simply because it already gives us an insight into the human condition and the shared suffering. It also gives us the empathy needed to watch people suffer WITHOUT (unsolicited) intervention ...

[@dessaarnold7540]

I lost my reply in the commercial. So true this. Sometimes lonely.

[@dessaarnold7540]

Sometimes painful.

[@BEEaTREE]

@@dessaarnold7540 All that, yes. We may also feel misunderstood. At one point, the realisation takes place that what we are looking for is not anyone else's understanding or even anyone else's company or comforting. But our own. Our own full self-expression. Our own permission to embrace and express our inner universe, in its totality, as it feels right to us, without holding back. Journeying through the pain has been the most incredible and most illuminating experience I could have possibly asked for. Wishing you well. 💚🧚🌲

[@danielaoyarzun6390]

Deb's interpretations on dreams are always on point and feel so right. I really admire how incisive her analyses of dreams are.

[@FrederiqueBertin]

The making feeling bad is a way to weaken your vibration and switch on a vibration where you are easy for manipulation .

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

''the passive aggressive person has no sense of their own anger''. You've met my mother. She doesn't recognise the cold shoulder or the silent treatment or stonewalling as ANGER. She only recognises a straightforward plea for communication as anger!!!! (because there is one perspective; hers. Therefore any attempt to communication is aggression I guess). I wish there were a solution.

[@iloveFreedom.]

If it helps / echkarte tihle or Rupert Spira I love) and I had to completely distance myself from my mother while I sirt my wounds out/ I don't know how long that may be / but now it feels free + safer / all the best 😊 sorry/ obvs only you know what works for you / we all have unique bonds/ attatchments/ Love with our mothers / fascinating stuff. I'm kinda meeting am inner Mother vibration more often/ more gentle and compash

[@susanmercurio1060]

My daughter

[@sunbeam9222]

​@@iloveFreedom. Just for clarification for those eager to know the author, I think you meant to write Eckhart Tolle.

[@kalimiltcharek9397]

I feel like my daughter is talking about me. I am that mother you are describing me from your perspective, but I suffer intensely because I don't know how to help my daughter to not see me like the way you describe your mother because me perspective on myself, and it probably goes the same for your mother, is different. I suffer because I don't know, there is no way how to show my daughter that I love her. The president with mothers like me, like your mom is that we can't make our daughters to feel loved because we were not loved. A mom can't grow a princess if she wasn't treated like a princess. I love you sweetheart, I don't know if you got what I wanted to tell. I love you and I am sure your mom loves you too. I will say again I love you to you because I can't say it to my daughter-she would not accept it.

[@MaryDunford]

I've been in a similar situation. Eventually, the staunch resistance to communication led me to become hostile. I'm still not happy with my own reactions then. In hindsight, if I were to be in this position again I would likely just mimic their reaction and go about my life until they wanted to address it. We can't crawl in the head of a silent person. Their motivations could stem from fear, anger, control. We don't know because there's no communication. That's the point. But there's no resolution without that open two-way communication, either. Regardless of the reasons for radio silence it's easiest on our peace of mind (and self-opinion) to walk away and forget it until they're ready to walk with us and deal with it. I hope this helps. 😊

[@Our_Patterns]

Shedler’s ’in plain English’: A projection that you make come true

[@willtroy1986]

Hello friends! I say this in the spirit of being supportive, because the content of this video ROCKS. If the video was a little more structured, and the information was more organized from the beginning, I think you may be able to get your messages across even more effectively. I almost stopped listening at the beginning when it felt like it kind of meandered around a bit. After a few minutes, I heard you all making points I had never heard before. In general, I would suggest talking about the groups you are a part of and how to join towards the end of the video rather than the beginning. If this is my first time listening to you, I don’t know your material well enough to want to invest my energy with you before I understand what that means. It would be kind of like trying to sell a car to a buyer before they’ve driven it; they’re more likely to buy once they have more information. Just my thoughts, and thank you for this video!

[@heatherwall9571]

We all have childhood wounds that we need to heal in order to become whole. 🙏💙

[@loriconner6740]

Years ago, while having some medical issues, I started seeing a therapist . After a couple of months she told me " we are our past experiences". I never saw her again. To this day, I have no idea what she was trying to put on me since she knew some terrible experiences I had suffered as a child. If anyone can add some insight, please explain, since it's obviously still in my thoughts.

[@loriconner6740]

I should add that I did challenge her statement but got a firm push back from her. " no, this is true".

[@MaryDunford]

Sounds like she puts people in boxes with labels. In her case, your experiences would become your definition/label. Once you've been "labeled" by someone who sees people in broad strokes they expect you to live according to their definition of you. And there's no changing their mind. Any therapist who does that would easily damage their clients. I don't know for certain if that's why she said this. But I've heard people who think this way use this phrase to justify that mindset. I wouldn't risk it. You made the right choice. Good instincts. Nicely done. 😎 👍

[@laroseblanche9435]

Her words not correct 100%, but If we dont heal, we can repeat same cycle and become the person who hurt others. Like the person who hurt us in past ( that why she said we are product of our past) but since u already start the healing progress then use it to evolve ur soul growth in order to get out from the trauma and Yes trauma can effecting in health issues on the surface level because our body remember the score. We are mind body and soul.

[@michelecrawford4253]

Perhaps the therapist was indicating in general terms that all our positive and negative life experiences growing up have influenced how we react to others and perhaps how we perceive ourselves. Growing up with a dominant controlling mother could make one slightly fearful/ apprehensive about other women? A nurturing non aggressive father would make one feel more comfortable with men. That was my experience

[@Roswell33]

We hold trauma in our bodies. But if you decided not to see her again, trust that. She may also mean that experiences shape us into who we are

[@ntinagyftopoulou7495]

Ευχαριστούμε!

[@thisjungianlife]

Thank you so so much!!

[@aceshigh5157]

how did i not know that i can see your faces on yt? i much rather prefer this format than just hearing you guys.

[@angelat3156]

Wow, what an amazing conversation! I found it just in time to help me work through a challenging work situation that has been causing me stress and anxiety. I will now look into what I’ve been projecting and take responsibility for what I bring into these situations. I already feel more compassion. What a gift- thank you!🙏

[@AquariusGate]

5:15 possibilities of interacting with self. Yes this is all it is, thought and feeling are quantum experiences of entanglement. They affect everyone but resonate strongly within us individually. Projective identification is ongoing, this is how our own mythology works , we are projecting emotional trials and challenges through our surroundings....including people. When we think of conditions and conditioning, these are aspects of our own nature we struggle to integrate. 9:35 this is the quantum entanglement i was speaking about.

[@yootoob1001001]

Great episode! It certainly is a twisty concept to navigate sometimes, more so when we're in the thick of it. I found myself coming up with a question about a third of the way through the podcast about how it works in relation to parent-child dynamics and what we might internalize and why, then Joseph chimed in right behind my question and essentially answered it, so thank you! I always come away with something valuable from listening to you all.

[@stefani.delima]

I thought it was interesting that Ms. Marciano and Mr. Lee had different views on projection frequency. There are some theories out there in intersexual gender dynamics/praxeology that say women project much more than men due to the fact that they are more perceptive (whereas men are more judgmental in the typological sense but really that's just another way to say compartmentalizing). Perceptive in tandem with projection is also the enmeshment mechanism🤔. Very interesting spectrum. Projection fascinates me especially as to how to identify it when it is happening and utilize it for introspection rather than allow it to compel oneself. I just found your channel recently. I've been really enjoying the content and Food for thought. Thank you for producing it❤

[@StephenS-2024]

I've pretty much shut everyone out. Except my immediate household. Seems the only way for me to avoid ill- communication. I'm " triggered" by familiar people dragging me back into a past self that doesn't exist anymore.

[@alllifematters]

I see this with my dog constantly. It's frustrating. I try so hard to not focus on what i dont want him to do , but its really a big psychological exercise... My dog can read my mind! I swear to hod this has happened multiple times, we will be walking in a park or a big empty parking lot where i see one piece of broken glass on the ground and of course i dont want my dog to walk on it but the level that i have to hide my fear is so great ..he could be walking on the opposite side of the park and yet somehow will inebitably find his way over to the piece of glass 🤷

[@mars54mars54]

Fantastic episode, as always. I am so glad I discovered your podcast, I always learn so much, see so much in the healing mirror!

[@mri8517]

this episode is so profound, thank you so much

[@IOSALive]

I really enjoyed this video, so I hit the like button!

[@deepjourneys-barbarayuruvi6295]

Thanks!

[@thisjungianlife]

Thank you so much for your contribution!!

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

the jungian yoga retreat sounds so good! wish i could join but i'm in Ireland.

[@Liyah-encyclopedia333]

Wow I find those scenarios enacting so vivid and enlightening

[@loretagema9085]

I listened with great intetest to this podcast. Very pleased I found it. Just a small observation: when one of you laugh or utter an interjection while another one is talking, the listener cannot hear what was being said at that moment. It is a bit distracting, especially as the speakers choose their words carefully and every word counts. Thank you for such an in-depth discussion!

[@appletree6898]

Personally, I like the spontaneous and human flow of these conversations and hope they'll continue to laugh sometimes!

[@savytigress]

delightfulllllll conversation and discussion about something so primal and commonplace - feelings internal and/or projected are def energy in motion - we are allllllll swimming in our earthly experientialAmniotic fluid and skills to navigate are essential

[@HumbertoRamosOfficial]

Here is another interpretation of the dream, from another angle: The church is himself, the cellar is his innermost self, he wants to go in to find himself, but something prevents him in an annoying way, it is not easy to find himself. The dog is a shadow that stalks him from the corner of his eye, he can't see it from the front; his own shadow that frightens him, and for which he seeks refuge, trying to find himself, to understand himself, to dominate himself... but he still doesn't succeed... and the threat is approaching. Night is a state of sadness, excessive calm, a drowsiness of the senses, which is soft and comforting, like the maternal bed. That dominates everything, that observes him, that witnesses his life. But it is also helping the dog not to be visible..... That is to say, the night prevents him not to be able to make his shadow conscious. The night seems to me to be a psyche accustomed to the mother's shelter,; the night is his omnipresence of his mother, and because it is so persistent, is beginning to become worrying, something bad must have happened, or is happening... or could happen. He wonder if he has to get rid of the night as well. He may find out in future dreams, while his intrspection evolves. Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

[@jeanniecampbell1374]

This hurts to hear when we know either our own childhoods we did not get our needs met and later we observe children who are not getting their needs met it takes us back to our own childhood and for some we want to rush in and save the child ..but of course we can't so we try and save the broken Adults in our life the more we dig deep the more painful..before the knowledge and the practice of putting this into practice and become more confident .wow I was blamed recently for not surrendering and I had to really learn to keep my mouth shut and not take the bate of manipulation ( I did feel angry ) but I did feel as if I was being provoked to become angry ..so listened to my inner voice and decided NOT to show my anger ...saying that I did go into a depression for a few days and very tearful that I could not give my adult son the way he wanted me too , still trying to work out how to help him without sinking under ...Thanks for a great gathering of minds .

[@cheoresono3896]

Thank you to all of you, for your time and therapeutic labor you all put in making of this video! I wonder though being a therapist myself, how do you dissolve all the disturbance and mental problems coming out from 'projective identification' as well as from meaningful dreams? Is interpreting them for the client and pulling them onto the surface of their awareness enough for the healing?

[@peterhenley9776]

Great episode! Loved the dream discussion too. Deb mentioned Harry Potter re the Cerberus angle, but the dream also reminded me of the early scenes from the 3rd Harry Potter book when Harry sees the Grim who is a large dog, a shape shifter of his dark guardian parent figure.

[@kathleenb6375]

It’s hard to imagine pushing cheating into someone who isn’t already capable or guilty.

[@CBTCFT]

Fear of cheating = fear of abandonment... it's so true... and... trying to make it turn out differently this time... It sound promising, and I'm willing to learn, but I don't know how to do something different...

[@dannydetonator]

I'm 10min in, read all the comments and have no clue about what is this about. I have serious problems communicating with people, don't want any relationships and after hearing this certainly would never go to terapy.

[@elamanecera]

yes, how to be agressive is the key

[@brightphoebesays]

I had a panic attack in the veterinary clinic, when they were having trouble obtaining a blood sample from my cat for testing. I irrationally feared they were killing my cat or otherwise taking her away from me permanently. 9 months later she was diagnosed with diabetes, 11 months on she died. It's as if the veterinary people expected she was dying because of my reaction of panic. They don't understand PTSD, or abandonment issues, and thought I was having a premonition, that because I thought she was dying, she must be dying, and they made it so.

[@josephsestito9204]

Put very succinctly, I would like to become a patron, but how do I do this? Best Joseph

[@jodisherland5335]

No! We are not attracted to reliving abuse because it's familiar. We aren't attracted to abuse at all. We hate abuse! We are aligned with abuse that is often very much like a copy of what we experienced when we were helpless and vulnerable so that we can respond in an empowered and self loving manner. This is essential for rewriting the operating system running in our ROM (unconscious memory). It also has another important purpose. When we grow up abused and neglected we become disconnected to yourselves and we become desperate for love because we had to exist in a state of alienation and painful isolation. Every act that we perform that protects us from abuse and says NO to anyone who is violating our boundaries we not only rewrite our ROM, we also fulfill our own emotional needs for love. This is the main obstacle to moving away from dysfunction. Most of us victims become so hungry for love and relief from pain we put ourselves in the hands of another person who will not be able to fulfill our emotional needs. But if we understand that life offers us ways to correct injustices by responding appropriately and in a way that prioritizes our own well being. This prevents the dysfunctional relationship and takes us right out of the cycle.....it can PREVENT THE CYCLE.

[@maryannbeeton2106]

I agree, I don’t think it’s about being comfortable with the familiar, I think it’s more about making the unconscious conscious, in the search for healing.

[@pattiewoodall2488]

This was brilliantly said. Thank you for putting it into words. ❤

[@jennw6809]

He actually said we are "comforted" by familiar experiences, and I agree. They are *not* comforting. I do tend to agree with the idea that we are drawn into enactments and reenactments because our subconscious is trying to work them out/gain mastery of the experience.

[@groundedunorthodoxy8000]

The parents can prob put an antidote by simply acknowledging about the lack, abandon, neglect, wrong doings.

[@etandrepont]

If only that could take place for all the traumatized, neglected, and abandoned children. Instead we get blamed and they protect themselves with their utter denial/lies. Classic family dynamics 101 I shall not admit my truths. I will hold on to my anger. I will project and blame my victims that tell them I’m sick of them playing the martyr. ETA🌹

[@umeshkulkarni9687]

@31.36 it hit me hard. How difficult it's to manage a powerless grown up Son or Daughter with their growing demands. Marriage and Parenting are the most difficult and worst exams in a relationship management 🙄🤦‍♀️🤦‍♂️

[@iloveFreedom.]

Fascinating and highly insight Full❤🎉Thankyou❤🎉

[@annayudin290]

15:30 end of Evangelion when rei and shinji are in the ocean

[@amy-mu1zr]

Exceptional discussion 👏🏼

[@josephsestito9204]

I am a mental health practitioner I studied under Aaron beck, Albert Ellis and more recently, David Burns Having written that, it may come as a surprise that I have really enjoyed listening to your podcasts❤ However, as an undergraduate and while I was in graduate school I was is there a curious about the approach developed by Carl Jung so, ironically, I have been integrating my CBT work with the the approached by Carl Jung I have, for instance, including dreams and active imagination with my classic CBT lens thanks all of you, so much! Most recently commented I have started to read the vital Spark Anyway, the main reason behind my writing to you is that, I'd like to become a patron, but don't know how to do it . For example, I don't see anywhere no box that I can push which will guide my financial contribution involved in becoming a patron. Perhaps other folks have this problem, but I would at least like to know how to do this. What I think you are doing is of great value, and so I would like to be involved in financing what you are doing. My best to all of you, Joseph

[@Scarz733]

It is a demand for empathy. However, the individual who is projecting her/his concerns may be far beyond help. Perhaps, they don't have money and/or resources to obtain what they wish they had in life. And I am glad a solution was introduced. The best option is to always walk away from toxic people.

[@isabellekeyzer]

i have 2 people in my life who really embody this explanation. And they both had very deep attachment trauma at 2 years old. Till then everything was loving and normal. So it seems it is not per se the earliest experiences

[@Wingedmagician]

just in time for my ride to work. where people sometimes do try and make me feel bad for whatever the hell reason I can’t even fathom

[@dessaarnold7540]

Or at work lol

[@_N0_0ne]

Thank you

[@Alex_Khan]

Great discussion

[@nancybartley4610]

What is reasonable frustration? How much should we accept from others? If they are always late, for example, do we just accept that? How many minutes should I wait at a designated meeting place for someone who has a record of being 30 to 40 minutes late? Can't we also be projecting that taking us for granted is okay if we accept certain treatment? I want to be reasonable.

[@angelacarpenter8232]

Awesome Thank you

[@jessieessex]

1:04:35 If there has to be a closeness for this participation to take effect, then is it the case that certain people will seek out close relationships with those who they sense they can induce participation?

[@woodspriteful]

Love this discussion, especially the cape example. It is so appropriate to care for that patient by providing the cape and have the discussion later. Projection is unconscious, but I wonder to what degree people who are conscious in their coercive controlling behavior may be fueled by some unconscious projection. Of course, that would have to be analyzed on the level of the individual. More depth psychologists are needed in Family Court and to revise law and set new standards for lawyers and judges.

[@wildwoodskimberlynewworldd5282]

Most excellent 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@ilovesamyo]

This is wonderful thank you! I would be curious to see a topic about why, how, where it comes from, people with pretty entrenched personality disorders. Especially if they’re in our family, I wonder if there are jungian perspectives regarding this topic🤯

[@JennyBesserit]

If you're interested in Jungian psychology and personality disorders I strongly recommend reading Donald Kalsched's work. Either his book "the inner world of trauma" or "trauma and the soul". Both are great, but personally I think "the inner world of trauma" is the superior book if you're looking to learn about personality disorders. You can also search on KZbin for "Jordan Thornton trauma and the soul" and get a good idea of what these books are about.

[@noellecuisine8912]

Thank you again! Participation Mystique ….❤ Kind Greetings from the Netherlands 🇳🇱 from your FrenchFan 😊

[@saycog1084]

I see the projection happening between intercultural couples. The one learning the new language and getting used to the new country and culture starts forcing the partner to learn their language so they can feel how hard it is to be in their shoes going through all those changes.

[@peaceofmind2406]

I was wondering what exactly it indicates if this loop of projective identification repeats itself continuously in a relationship with different frequencies and does not seem to be solved due to one's inability to carry it into consciousness? Thank you! It's a brilliant episode as always.

[@pearpo]

What if it isn’t because we want to re-enact childhood patterns especially ones that induce trauma or negative emotions, but that neuron pathway has been established.. so walking through the woods, you are more likely (and it is easier) to travel on a trail already created. That is an external literal example. You could appear to be on a hap hazard path through the woods to the untrained observer, but to someone who knows you they are like” oh well she knows her dog likes to sniff the trees, so she is walking that pattern because she is with her dog,” or “she is looking at the flowers so she is identifying flowers along her way and beelining around those.”

[@averagebodybuilder]

I guess I have a lot to learn about myself

[@averagebodybuilder]

How can one differentiate between projection and simple bad behaviour?

[@christineplaton3048]

Life isn't all good. There is dark and light. It is important to be aware of the dark side of the personality. People who are out of touch with reality do a lot of damage. If it takes opening eyes to the reality then it's important for growth. You can love someone and need to help them to see reality. That's just a fact of life. Denial. Does no good.

[@alllifematters]

Prople who grow up with narcissistic abuse learn to introject and sometimes can't project their energy outward bc it's been a whole life time of taking in projections from others

[@TimThomas-mn2xh]

Very interesting

[@JR764.._]

Leaders of countries with poor human rights reflect their own projections

[@Killane10]

I have a question. Your brilliant and wise❤ analysis of human behaviour totally resonates with me. Why isn't this wisdom being brought into the greater consciousness with regard to the conflicts in say Gaza and Ukraine? I can see so much of what you guys are describing manifesting into the lashing out we see with these conflicts

[@patikrysiuk6683]

I see dogs in the dreams as projection of the Shadow who reminds us to do things we are ashamed of doing, they are instincual beings. Someone is ashamed of leaving religious beliefs so Shadow is helping him in his ways. Instincts are telling him that religion is dangerous for his mind and that he should stay away.

[@kalokization]

I wonder if there is a way to tell the difference between projective identification onto another leading to self-fulfilling prophecy and subconscious knowledge of the other leading to correct expectation of how the other will act?

[@patriciamorgan2501]

Yes

[@Blonde111]

Ah yes, this person wants to be gratified and praised continuously….my ex husband

[@dawnpage11]

I think Covid caused lots of projection. I wish more investigation about separation between Covid psychosis. The division. I do appreciate .

[@amylombardi9088]

Yep, I've totally dropped the cookies! 😆

[@happygucci5094]

I totally have dropped the cookies!!! 😅💯

[@happygucci5094]

I think it would be interesting to view this with an “and/both” perspective- this integrated with a Fsmily Sustems approach as well as an Eriksonian approach- trauma lens- and we have the ability to start to create a new language that seeks to understand not judge and moralize or ( in scientific language) pathologize- the function and behavior has meaning. And we are expanding our vocabulary in service of getting a more accurate non perjorative view of human behavior within an ever increasingly complex and sophisticated world. It’s a belief that these phenomena are trying to tell us something and as Jung believed- is working for our benefit. Then we can focus on the task of being able to identify and personalize the individuals particular intention ( italicized) behind the behavior.

[@bryanalltogether]

So that we can bring the unconscious contents of the relationship out, maybe we need to remove ourselves from the (divine) drama by amplification. In amplification we automatically objectify the behavior, and can process it before seeing it in ourselves.

[@dancingcloud8557]

Is there a way to clear the original wound so as to avoid the induction?

[@hildebeerens4332]

I have listened to this a couple of times and what I am taking from it is that projective identification is an invitation to take the role of a part the person does not want to (or cannot because it is in the shadow) negotiate with internally and wants to argue with in someone else so it can stay in the shadow. Recently I have been wondering what would happen in everyday life if I’d ask the other person if they would like me to take role x, y or z so they can try out a couple of # outcomes? ?

[@brightphoebesays]

However, by 10 months, a mother can't aquiesse to the baby's every desire. The baby no longer needs feedings every 4 hours. They can physically go 8 hours without feeding by 6 months, so if they're still crying for mummy in the middle of the night then, it's for something else, and should she really be a slave to her baby's every whim, at the sacrifice of her own sleep and sanity?

[@Liyah-encyclopedia333]

❤❤❤

[@JennyBesserit]

Every time I hear about the women's retreat I wish I could go

[@mkthinks7455]

I am confused by this concept. How do we tell if it is us projecting onto somebody or if it is the other person projecting onto us? Like if somebody suddenly attacks us with anger, is this them projecting their issues onto us or is this us unconsciously provoking them into anger. In a dysfunctional family situation with a scapegoat child, are the parents projecting onto the child or is the child projecting onto the parents? With narcissistic abuse how does this work?

[@poutinez1688]

Which one of you makes the Schweedy Balls dude - I wasn't sure if this video was a Parody of the SNL skit dude either way it is CLASSIC dude

[@josegongora2479]

Please, I ask you to include subtitles.

[@Wingedmagician]

download, use transcription software. this is too much of a demand

[@catherinemyers7419]

On your screen is an icon in a box : cc : that means closed caption, and by using this, you get subtitles in English. Some KZbin channels also have other languages as subtitles, and you can choose. Hope this helps.

[@alllifematters]

They should call introjection a survival mechanism not a defense mechanism

[@uniqueusername22337]

What if the child is so well taken care of that they can't handle the spouse coming home 30 minutes late? If you got ignored in childhood you probably have a higher expectation and acceptance of disappointment.

[@jessicasankey3630]

I think if the child was so well taken care of the odd time that a spouse was 30 mins late they could rationalise, they would not question their lovability. However, if someone was constantly 30 mins late, perhaps they would start to become anxious and instead of internalising this as shame be able to question whether or not this was a relationship that could meet their needs.

[@EclecticEngineer604]

❤️🙏🏼