Thorin's Thoughts - Fan Critiques of Pro Players (CS:GO)

[@VinceMetuz]

The point about static aim versus flick reaction in 1v1's is absolutely spot on. Something not enough people take in to account.

[@MusicJunkie37]

Best video i've seen in a while. Thank you for this video Thorin! Sums up the CS community nowadays pretty damn spot on.

[@nivolcas]

I thought this quote from Mark Twain was relevant too: "There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot."

[@driedpancake]

Thorin. I love you.

[@tomaslane573]

I love how some youtuber or streamers etc say like it will support me if u check out the sponsor were as Thooorin flat out says (I paraphrase) and by this you will give me referal money it's good to see someone in the community is actually honest about it.It is something tiny but i find it admirable

[@simovihinen875]

Awesome to have you Thorin! You're really enriching the whole e-sports experience here with in-depth analysis and new ideas, even for me who doesn't really follow CS or LoL.

[@yamaxanadu7]

I love that I get a notification on my phone when you upload something

[@vivac825]

I'm silver 2 and I got 69 aces in one game and these pros can't even get a 4k.

[@r3b3ll3r]

VimGamer math or meth?

[@emmey8865]

VimGamer only 69? Git gud. I win at least 1337 1v5s each game. Kappa

[@joegstilllives]

VimGamer cant wait till someone takes this comment seriously lol

[@bennethkrattli262]

VimGamer PRO PPL PLAY AGAINST GOOD PPL UNLIKE UUU!

[@vivac825]

spongeb0b You're wrong, I'm global guardian elite master. I foking rek kids ez pz on the games. I ded a 420 nospe on a ked sew ez

[@mbsfaridi]

I've been watching your videos since the beginning of the year. Just subscribed and went on "like"ing every video I watched. Thanks for the amazing content!

[@darogers125]

Thorin your ability to recall rounds from certain maps from games over a year ago and say exactly how the buy went is awesome :D

[@Mempo1]

Thooorin trying to talk sense into HLTV/MM kids. I'll give it the "nice try".

[@antix995]

One thing I've noticed is that the only difference between a stupid move and a fantastic move is that a stupid move didn't work. You could do the exact same move but if it didn't work, its regarded as a stupid move, but if it worked and you slaughtered the whole team or whatever, it becomes a great play. You get me? For example, moving through a smoke and slaughtering them becomes a sneaky quality play but doing it and getting mowed down, people will say its stupid.

[@ugotpwned999]

I 100% agree. When I play pugs with my friends I give them tips when they clutch. Sometimes they dont take it and they get lucky and say "it worked, so whats wrong with that?" Smh.

[@razhmazh]

+Nick Matthews TL:DR: If it's stupid, but it works, it's not stupid.

[@antix995]

+razhmazh Aye

[@midwestgamerglhf6791]

Thooorin, they put a Game of Thrones ad before your video. You finally made it mate.

[@dbix9109]

I think 6:20 is the most important point in this video. In my personal experience this is often the root of dissension between teammates as well.

[@PwnstarUK]

thorins best video ..

[@emilsvartengren8203]

Great video Thorin keep it up, love all the CS videos!

[@SuperSkillzify]

Completely spot on with the comment on "he missed an easy shot", so many times when I watch games with my friends who are quite a low skill level, they will always say thing along those lines; it's clearly a result of not playing at a high enough level to know that really good players will make it so hard to get an "easy head shot". This comparison can be made in football too which is ridiculous in itself.

[@n0rman908]

I think another thing you should have mentioned in regard to pros missing "easy shots" is that these people, myself included (DMG), don't have the knowledge, experience or skill to create the opportunity to take these "easy shots". It pisses me off when people say a pro is bad just because he risks going for a shot even though he has HIMSELF turned the odds in his favour but just fails the execution. With regards to comms i think that you should mention that pro players have reached the point were they no longer need to advise one another, they have their own playstyle that they have proven works and a lot of info and decisions that make they have made and been in those situations hundreds of time more than the "pro nova" has

[@bbreakerCE]

hey Thorin, once again great video and argumentation. One thing i want to say ever since i saw reflections with cypher: you could really benefit by having russian subtitles. CIS is just too big of a part of valve-games community to ignore it - and right now there is nothing even close to what you are doing in russian language.

[@sunday.4597]

That nuke example was spot on

[@Aaron66111]

I totally agree with you. I have started getting into watching more and more pro csgo lately as I have played at a reasonably high level of competitive since early days in css. The casters seem to take whatever a player does and if they die or lose a 1v1 or something they "made a mistake" and if they won "they made the correct decision" which kind of annoys me because by this logic it seems the casters would be happy if in a 2v1 or 1v1 the person would jump out and go for a 360 instant headshot. If the person died they would be like "dunno wtf he was doing such a dumb decision" if he won the 1v1 they would be like "omg amazing next level plays with the 360 jumping headshot totally next level skills" so its kind of annoying when they do this shit.

[@jrdN_uk]

I agree with you. I stay away from Reddit and any forum/twitch chats where most of the community converse with each other because especially on CS:GO, the community is so toxic at times it just pains me to go anywhere near those places. I do find myself getting extremely angry though when the company/companies hosting these events (like ESWC) this weekend just make extremely terrible events for the viewers. It's not something we should have to tolerate after this many years of this game being played competitively.

[@XxJERICHOHOLICxX13]

I try not to bash the players, and I want you guys to stop bashing the players too. Just remember that there is a reason they are pro and you aren't

[@dennisaaa_]

***** He's still better then you

[@XxJERICHOHOLICxX13]

MazyModz REKT

[@Cypriot108]

***** lol whenever I check comments under Thorin's videos, I see you saying some stupid shit :x

[@kwhatofit]

You make some very valid points Good video

[@dakotaplasterer8575]

Thooorin Love all your insight on both CS GO and league of legends, but was curious if you would consider SeanGares the Hai of CS:GO. Both are able to keep the team in international games despite having a skill deficiency, when compared to the other team. I understand the games and situations are completely different, since the skill gap in CS:GO is nowhere near the skill gap between NA and the world in League. Ironically enough both players are apart of the Cloud 9 organization. I was just curious on your thoughts on the matter and great video as always!

[@louishough5182]

Can you do a video on Fnatic (lol) and your thoughts on them?

[@IDontGiveAFluxx]

Hey thorin, What microphone do you use?

[@jimgrey1627]

I think this can be applied to any other esport (league, Smash etc.)

[@oORoOFLOo]

When I aim on one place and wait (static aim I guess) I almost fall asleep, I can't focus enough and when someone peaks me, I don't react really fast. I do way better by just running and changing positions or just walking left and right behind a box in order to cover two angles at once. I'm a terrible CT, but I really like T, 'cause of their freedom.

[@gimliCSGOCONTENTedits]

good video Thorin (Oaken)Shields ;D I experienced the same thing in matchmaking... i rekt everyone with 30 bombs on DMG and Legendary Eagle with instant headshots and when i ranked up to supreme (in one week from LE to Supreme) i had to spray cause they took completely different angels and pretty much outmoved my onetaps ... i was doing badly on Supreme for 3 weeks but after that i was dropping 30 kills again in 2 out of 3 games... just an example but i think its the same with the prolevel... espacially cause the pros may be under pressure so fails can and always will happen...

[@EwasSC]

I was he opposite to you, as LE I would spray and frag hard and I too got to smfc in a short time. Then I started trying to tap more and now I play better without sprays

[@gimliCSGOCONTENTedits]

Ewan Collins im back to tapping now but i needed some time...

[@igorpaersson]

I know you have answered this many times but do you still play (CS:GO)? Its really all about the fact that ppl make mistakes that some times come out as a heroic move. You made you're point. The thing bothers me is how a lets say flusha or getright win rounds as a lurker when they actually have to be the "entry" -fragger. I know they have the aim but I mean whats the difference between those styles of play and if or how can you warm up for those?

[@nigottr2]

I'm DMG and people are still shit at this rank (including myself).

[@xBen00x]

Dmg is not that high once you hit LEM you get challenged

[@nigottr2]

Had a game yesterday where my teammates refused to smoke the crossing on Dust 2 even though they were being awped, so I had to do it for them. #justdmgthings

[@xBen00x]

The rzk Cheaters.

[@ViceFielder]

rHd last 5 matches every dmg would aim much much better than any lems. Really really puzzled at this rank.

[@xBen00x]

Daniel Ozawa Aim isn't everything, getting up the ranks includes gamesense,and experience

[@Anybanks]

As someone who doesn't play CS but likes listening to thorin, can I make a point of how funny it sounds when he said "Even if I got killed, I got killed by the one guy holding the banana" with a tone suggesting that it's not such a bad thing

[@neemtee]

Thats deep, how deep? Deeper than Atlantis.

[@justanotherstarinthesky]

+neemtee thorin deep.

[@nivolcas]

Thooorin uses logic and reasoning to explain why someone isn't always right. Some who watch this video (me? you?) aren't at this level of understanding. Thooorin may be ineffective with some of us? :/ STEP DOWN YOUR GAME MATE, TOO ADVANCED JK nice video as always

[@daniellee4003]

I'm mg1 and I try and take literally as many strange angles as possible because I know people will check the standard ones when approaching and it gives me a bit of an element of surprise. Am I thinking too hard about that, then? A lot of these also apply to critiques of your own team in matchmaking. People just think everyone on their team is a pro and throw insults out when they "miss an easy shot" or "aren't in the right place".

[@TheElectriczil]

You probably are it's a mm pug and at that low level it could probably work but it would be better to just play smart and with your team as much as you can not weird off angles because at higher levels where people are quite as potato about doing the basics like checking corners they will check it and probably kill you

[@TheElectriczil]

cool jay not necessarily you should not learn to play off the badness of other people instead play to make yourself shine and become better

[@th3on3andonlylov3r]

Hence the reason I hardly make comments; I can acknowledge that I'm not a pro and that I don't have their game sense. I can voice my opinion of what I think might be the best possible option for any given scenario but I'll never pass it off as fact, only speculation.

[@lagreify]

Duzcek This is what everyone should do

[@th3on3andonlylov3r]

The problem is that that isn't going to happen since the planet is mostly filled with idiots. 60% of the world population doesn't have the ability to critically think and thats an actual fact. 60% of people form an opinion and then think that there opinion is the only correct one. Then likely 20% of us who can critically think are occasionally stubborn in their ways.lagreify

[@lagreify]

Duzcek Yup, sad truth.

[@ViceFielder]

I think 2v1 with a nearly dead teamate goes better if the almost dead guy peeks and gets intel than having the enemy pop flash hs full health and legshot the other guy.

[@WaseemDiab]

I don't believe there is anything wrong with trying to analyze pro games and sometimes critiquing certain plays, even if you are a low level player. There is nothing wrong with trying to analyze the game. I also don't believe there is anything wrong with trying to defend your analysis. I think the issue is some people don't have a sense of humility. They are not willing to consider that they may be wrong. This is more of a response to the comments on this video. In terms of what Thorin said in the video, I would argue that you can't really blame casters. I know Thorin said casters make this mistake sometimes, but said nothing about whether he can blame them for it. The reason I believe casters are somewhat exempt is because they are forced to commentate on the situation to the best of their knowledge. They must accept that they may be wrong and give their best opinion, I believe there is nothing wrong with that.

[@DivineFrag]

Every time you watch a thorin video, write &t=15s at the end of your URL, so you skip his ad. Kappa

[@draheim90]

It's almost impossible for one to critique someone that is significantly better than them. Not just because they're better, but because they're also playing against better opposition. Excellent point about missing 'easy' shots. In MM if you miss a shot, there usually isn't much penalty to it. You have all day to set up the shot and if you miss you can try again or easily fall back. At pro level they have milliseconds to execute the shot, and if they take too long they're going to be instantly headshot before getting the shot off. As such they have to rush shots and just gamble that if they take quick shots (without exposing themselves for too long), some will land.

[@fr0nage]

In this video Thorin works out that reddit is an enormous circlejerk.

[@Astrokillernaut]

Great video. Well done.

[@killerofCarthage]

Thorin do a video on Cheating accusations and maybe explanations if you have any? Maybe troubles with cheating on LAN etc. Thanks

[@Shiftaws]

lol i couldn't stop laughing when he started talking about poker. I agree, just funny.

[@gangz]

I bet thorin is master guardian

[@Ghozt51]

I think this scrutiny of 'loool fucking noob i couldve done that' is present in sports in general. If Mata breaks away onto goal but hits the ball wrong when shooting and it misses, fans rip him apart for being shit and missing an easy sitter and 'my mate from sunday league could score that'. People thinking they can do what professionals can do is commonplace in sports, albeit still wrong.

[@goneFeral]

You have to take into account that everyone in twitch chat spam and the majority of people on the sub reddit are 14 years old. You have to keep your head above the water and just ignore ignorant comments.

[@Exigentable]

a lot of good points made here, I will keep this in mind when slinging my opinions around like semen. thanks again thorin for keeping me on the straight and narrow. shame the people who need to take this into account the most will likely write it off.

[@comaroniandrei]

Would you ever get into Hearthstone? Why not?

[@xBen00x]

No.

[@KnowYourRole93]

thorin went all in and won

[@NinjaScorpio]

Thooorin be fast and do a video about the french colapse and why they cant have mayonese in the croissant anymore!!

[@tomeknaj]

Nobody EVER admits that they are lower than MG, just look up forum threads about ranks on HLTV...

[@Weisswoscht]

Very good video!

[@a656582540]

fan critiques is in every (e)Sports see it has a part of sport which will always be there. But when will russians get their own server?

[@iamledgendarydupe]

What MM rank does thorin have, he keeps bringing up mm rank but i've never known what rank he himself is. Just curious and i know it doesn't have much to do with the content of his vids.

[@imwawo]

Guys who do you think is the best OPer 1. KennyS 2. Wonderchild 3. Get_Right 4. F0rest 5. Hiko

[@6o3matty]

TLDW You are not on their level. If you could do better, you would be there.

[@filipbunalti]

6o3matty Well, by that logic, Thooorin is in no position to comment on them either (but does anyways). Having the understanding of high-level CS =/= ability to actually execute them. The game mechanics take thousands of hours to perfect.

[@MrThuralion]

The "If you can't do it better, you shouldn't say anything" is not the way to go either. We need coaches and critics in this world

[@6o3matty]

Ayush Sharma WTF are you talking about?! I said nothing about not being able to critique. Just stop being a dumb shit when you do, because obviously you can't play at that level.

[@JerehmiaBoaz]

6o3matty It's not the people, fans have been whining about players since the invention of spectator sports. The problem is lowest common denominator sites like reddit where the mob rule of the school yard dictates that the one with the most vitriolic criticism of people in general (not just about pro gamers) wins.

[@Dranzzz]

Ayush Sharma To bad most people that say a pro player sucks don't have a high level understanding of cs OR can execute it.

[@shterguh2c]

Everything's cool and you are right just about everything but the QQs vs A10. Nobody will or has ever folded on QQ pre-flop. Bad comparison.

[@AncientDPGz]

Thats like mee peeking mid getting 4 opening frags in 4 rounds then die the 5th round and my team screams at me why I peek L

[@busdriver0000]

7:26 I was so fucking confused for a second

[@filipbunalti]

Thooorin's audience is Silvers and Novas confirmed. (Unsubbed) /s

[@BlockCinemamatics]

Thoorin shirt -_- well I guess he got to get those koreans.

[@00HoODBoy]

very difficult topic to explain, especially the aim and movement part. you did a really good job in trying , people should think more before typing and talking shit

[@kidpwnz]

thorin has heat lolol

[@fr0zeNid]

nice.

[@gamersragefails]

Just don't let anyone under eagle talk

[@TheElectriczil]

Eagles are just as bad trust me they are basically all retarded except a few and basically anyone playing mm pugs and ESEA pugs to an extent though less so. Don't let anyone under main talk would be a way to limit the community a lot but fix a lot of the retardedness but also fuck that just try ignore the dumbasses

[@maulcs]

You on opiates, man? *itches*

[@CS-CASESorg]

HUN:DEN carry! :D

[@hellroamer]

LOVE YOUR SHIT

[@SY-it7xs]

best part: and you can give me some referral money

[@tylerwitt8904]

Add f2b and no x-ray :D

[@eHond433]

stop calling me a silver m8

[@SeekTheMoon201]

This video was pretty pointless tbh. Of course many people commenting on the pro scene and specific situations ingame dont know what the fuck they are talking about but there are many "fans" that watch nearly every cs:go game that is playd and have the game knowledge to comment and make valid points in the critique of pro teams . To the point of comparing pro gameplay to your own experience from matchmaking I think that most people that write "Im gold nova and even I know that in situation xy u have to play z " are frustrated because the team they bet on or are a fan on lost and its simply a exaggeration rather than a statement that they really mean. To not realize, that the pro meta isnt compareable to mm is a given and most people know that. Again think this video is pretty pointless

[@jacksonbermingham2168]

i try to leave constructive criticism .. if i do with answer for my thoughts .. im a c9 fan and i wouldnt change the team but i will critique over them with other c9 fans preferred.. then general pleb shit talkers .. c9 still have teething issues but r getting better every lan and it shows .. in hind site now i dont like what esl esea pov vids that brought alot of criticism.there good to watch but maybe they should of just uploaded it on youtube after event.. like they did for fnatic subbed vids .not like c9 vids that where couple hours after game while still competeing in the event.. esl esea mafia gotta keep odds in favor lol jokes

[@DiogoMarquesAwesome]

tldr: Everyone sucks except the pros

[@kattepus3]

Thorin its globale that think thay are better Then pros not only nova/silver

[@oliverbergmann6117]

So you are analyzing yourself now...damn

[@zissou6928]

Take notes scrubs

[@ironshroom]

People expect pro gaming fans to be different from regular sports fans? Lot's of people are stupid and shouldn't be listened to, if you can't tell the difference your parents didn't do a good job.

[@Yevlentieve]

Is your bed in your kitchen?

[@christopherpeakechris]

bot thooorin

[@killenmedskillen1338]

Thorins the biggest fanboy ever. Shox and hiko is overrated players. Stop talk about them. You hate C9 because hiko is not there. Titan top 7? rofl

[@TrudedeRude1]

bla bla bla zzzz

[@SGZealotry]

first

[@pkbtpiccolo]

first ? :O

[@walrus9999]

Thoorin.. you can't talk sense to shitty mmers suffering from dunning kruger's syndrome. Please stop telling these prodigal get-right spraying, kennyS awping, ex6tenz brained god players to shut up. Obviously they would never make the mistakes these pros make, despite the fact that 99% of them have even played on an open team before.