THOR 4 SPOILERS AND WHY IT IS SO DIVISIVE | Double Toasted

[@Keychaine]

Infinity War was Thor at his absolute best. Strong, heroic badass who's fish-out-of-water nature would lead to some funny moments -- but part of that humor was also how nonchalantly he'd tell his jokes. Calling Rocket a "Rabbit" or saying "All words are made up" while being completely serious were things that made him funny. I think that's the difference. Thor in IW was funny. Thor in L+T is a goofball.

[@Sandman1027]

Wow this may be the best analogy I have read

[@marketlg24]

Now it’s just a comic relief

[@recklessnotion1899]

Facts

[@0912sooli]

He was like this because of Thor: Ragnarok...Endgame destroyed his chracter

[@eminosose]

Thank you!!!!! Or in the first Thor when he says "I need a horse" (my fav joke in MCU). He has been funny but not stupid. Thor holding the forge open while being blasted by the sun is arguably his dopest feat. Taika's Thor is ridiculously stupid

[@michaelsinger4638]

I was so waiting for Gorr to attack that hiding place where Zeus and all the other gods were at. Like Hela tearing through Asgard’s army herself in the last movie, Gorr just slaughters a bunch of gods to show how powerful and ruthless he is. Why they did not do that is beyond me?

[@cokemaster3710]

we got to see thors butt though…so the trade off wasn’t exactly terrible lol.

[@JonCom3dy]

Eventually, Gorr learned that he could just go to eternity and make one wish to save time. An action scene of him showing up to slaughter everyone in God City would have been cool, I admit.

[@rkvang479]

You’re thinking of Gorr the God Butcher. We are watching his cousin Gorr the Kid napper.

[@mcruz4571]

@@cokemaster3710 thats Asgard ass...

[@chasehedges6775]

💯💯

[@PoppieLand]

It's a real shame that we lost Chadwick Boseman, he was a great leading man

[@aerystargaryenii2565]

He was the only saving grace for the MCU after RDJR and CE left. But Chris Evans kinda ruined his image after lightyear soooo

[@Omar-wq9dz]

Sif, Valkyrie, Zeus, and Gorr were completely underused, but that might be due to editing, since it looked like a lot of scenes were cut

[@patrickcharles6983]

I really wish we got to see Sif's battle with Gorr, it just ticked me off that they made a joke out of Sif surviving.

[@deltablueprint3186]

Disney Marvel literally paid Lena Headey, from Game of Thrones, $7 million to be in Thor: Love and Thunder, then they completely cut out her scenes from the theatrical release. You won't see her in the movie AT ALL.

[@gimmibox]

Chris Hemsworth mentioned there’s a “crazy” 4 hour cut so you’re probably right

[@chasehedges6775]

@@gimmibox We’ll probably get in the future

[@molasorrosalom4846]

7 million????

[@Fade2BlackSS]

Corey been killing the transitions to the sponsor ads. This one and the Hellofresh one from the last video were so smooth. 😂😂😂

[@Omar-wq9dz]

The whole thing about Stormbreaker being sentient was completely unnecessary. I don't even know why that was done

[@ericstorm6582]

Because norse mythology magic weapons have always been sentient

[@summers7554]

Idk, it was funny? They showed both of Thors weapons' had sentience, which is cool for the worldbuilding and made for funny jokes. And Mjolnir remembering Thors wish and helping Jane was kind of crucial to the romantic elements.

[@velk2897]

It was unnecessary and not important to the plot, but it made some "unconventional moments"

[@summers7554]

@@velk2897 It was one of the core elements of the romance... in a romance movie, what do yuo mean lmao

[@ArcaJ]

It made me laugh.

[@JulesGunn]

As far as adults in the room, Chadwick was supposed to be that voice going forward but sadly the fates had other plans…

[@ashtonturner2862]

I thoroughly enjoyed the film, but my only complaint is that there wasn’t enough screen time with Gorr. There needed to be at least 1 to 2 more scenes conveying how big of a threat to the gods Gorr was. There needed to be more to convey him as a menace.

[@tomrivas]

They never even showed him killing any gods beside the initial one . Lmao

[@pastoryoda2789]

Screw that Gorr, i’m glad to hear he didn’t get much screen time, They made gorr into a dude instead of an alien.

[@alekesam]

There was 2 more scenes with him and they were cut.

[@ajiththomas2465]

Yeah, I feel like that was such a letdown. Gorr is supposed to be a serial killer of _gods_ . I would've liked some more Hannibal Lecter shit, ya know? Have him massacre a few gods and/or show off a wall of grisly trophies like the heads or signature weapons of a few gods from different pantheons. Something to actually show and justify to us why Gorr deserves the title Butcher of Gods. Instead, Hela has a better showcase as a Butcher of Gods than Gorr the God-Butcher does.

[@singingchef23]

I thoroughly agree my only wish was I wanted to see the Necro sword in more action. But I enjoyed the hell out of it. It is a bit unevenly paced but that's about it.

[@aquaticlife9251]

Thor is a serious comic. As much as a space comic can be. This storyline (Gorr) is one of the best storylines in Thor's history. It's all treated like a joke. They tried to cram 2 great stories into 1 to move on to another storyline for the sake of the "phases" just to further their narrative( run on sentence?) Imagine if they had 2 movies. One that had Lady Thor( romcom). Maybe an appearance with Beta Ray Bill. And another with Gorr in a more serious take of the characters (Thor/Gorr). Or is this movie better with Beta Ray? Definitely this one. Think of a movie like Conan the Barbarian(Arnold's). It's an epic adventure with some humorous moments yet doesn't go out of its way for a laugh. Thor comics 99 percent of the time are not funny. It's like the filmmakers are making fun of the source material and not honoring the writers they took it from. A parody. We get the "joke". We got it the first time.

[@shahidmirza1138]

He was serious for 2 of his movies and it didn’t work for most of the audience so they changed course.

[@TheJanissary90]

Also Comics make him serious after 80's.He is created as wacky bimbo.He created by Jack Kirby in 60's and last 2 movies leanin onto it.

[@greenman394]

@@shahidmirza1138 His origin movie wasn’t bad though, it was pretty in line with all the other phase 1 movies. Thor 2 was just boring because they can’t do fantasy adventures for some reason and picked the most boring villain.

[@KamiAnimeS1]

Yup

[@Jwallworth]

@@shahidmirza1138 exactly why is everyone going on about the comedy factor? First two Thor films were bang average and the fans made it known, Thor ragnarok received a brilliant reception! So obviously they’d take it in that direction and it wasn’t all silly, think people forget Jane had stage 4 cancer and they did play that part serious enough, if they focused on that any more it would’ve been depressing. I enjoyed the comedy, think it works well with the actors

[@armoriya]

All I can say is, as a fellow comic book reader, the MCU version of Gorr is rather tame, compared to the source material. Had they pulled everything from the comics, we would have had an R-rated Thor movie. That would have been cool to me.

[@taheemlewis7627]

I assume thats why scenes were edited out. Gorr murdering random gods in a montage sets a super dark tone.

[@SuperOmnicronsj44]

And Robert Eggers wouldve served that end PERFECTLY. Or Peter Jackson or anybody that understands the genre and doesnt splice in the inane humor. Hoping Bob Chapek CLEANS HOUSE at Marvell. .. but unfortunately it will take more flops at the box office until that happens.

[@powerbad696]

I think that's why Disney and the directer didn't use the source material on Gorr,too much money would've been lost,SO,we get the watered down Gorr.The 2nd faze of the MCU has been a big let-down for me.But,I think my expectations were TOO high,perhaps.

[@TYMMSTER]

I strongly disagree about Shang-Chi, I loved the villain and the actor.

[@haitiankid9456]

Same

[@M1dniter]

He was easily the best part of the movie! I was so pissed when he was killed off

[@marketlg24]

One of the worst mcu movies

[@haitiankid9456]

@@marketlg24 no

[@1kbmahan]

The main character abandoned his sister and promised to come back for her a lied he’s pretty garbage in that degree

[@RJ-Ramen]

This movie felt like it was made by a child on a sugar rush.

[@chasehedges6775]

That is the most accurate description of a Marvel ever.

[@TwistedReality13]

Was the child also gay?

[@thickbrownlegs1859]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 FACTS! Could not say it any better 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@rporche2600]

Basically yeah

[@213chewy]

And that’s a bad thing?

[@HigherEdGaming]

Character title - "God Butcher" Gods killed on screen - LITERALLY 1 IN THE FIRST 5 MINUTES Me - Annoyed

[@wespapes2054]

I had fun with it, and I can totally see why others hated it.

[@JonCom3dy]

Same

[@venom74799]

I’m the reverse. I didn’t like it nearly as much as the last Thor but can see why others enjoyed it.

[@wespapes2054]

@@venom74799 That's totally fair. Let people have their opinions.

[@danieltobin4498]

Yeah, it definitely felt…different.

[@aerystargaryenii2565]

Why did Taika Waititi have to direct this film. Imagine if Matt Reeves or the Russo Brothers directed this instead. It could have been in two parts, a fresh breath of air for the MCU it was meant to be new, it was meant to be beautiful.

[@chasehedges6775]

From what I hear, It’s divisive because it tries to be serious one minute, then hilarious and silly the next.

[@mutalemwananshiku4098]

Thats taika waitis movies blend of comedy and drama its like people have never seen his movies and determined now its a problem for them.

[@avonbarksdale91]

It works.

[@anaknangfilipina5846]

Its not the tonal shift for me. It’s because there’s no balance. A serious drama moment shouldn’t be diluted with a comedic gag right next to it. That’s what Ragnarok did. Also, Gorr is very underutilized.

[@CresentSoul]

@@mutalemwananshiku4098 it’s too volatile in this though

[@mutalemwananshiku4098]

@@CresentSoul i didnt feel that

[@tobiaslawrence8928]

When you have a thor film that has gorr the God Butcher in it you have to bring it. Gorr is Marvel comics' most epic villain in marvel comics history and when you have one of Hollywood's most top-tier actors to play an epic villain you have to bring it. Rather instead of playing the movie as a complete comedy skit, it's best to play the movie straightforwardly. Yes comedy should be used in the movie to make people laugh but when you undercut all of your serious scenes with comedy it becomes a joke in it's self...Gorr is a character that is on par with Thanos, magneto, Dr.doom, and so on when you give him less screen time it becomes very disappointing.

[@VeenSauce]

This was exactly what I was thinking. The stakes were high enough that Gorr should've done more, should have been more devastating, but instead he's just a Saturday morning badguy.

[@tobiaslawrence8928]

@@VeenSauce Bingo. Prime example, imagine if Gorr showed up in the omnipotent city and started mowing down gods but also what if we got a scene where he was in the middle of killing a celestial that would have been epic. Even though I enjoyed the movie it was completely wasted on comedy this could have been the MCU's third good film in phase 4 but sadly it falls in the middle. Also, I hate how thor progressed back to being an idiot if this was party thor from what if that would understandable but no.

[@MrUniq]

I agree with you but to most people Gorr is an unknown villian..so Marvel Studios can just pluck these guys from the comics and use them in any capacity and nobody will really know the context. Judging by the trailers this movie was being set up as a comical movie..so I figured that was going to overshadow the story. I'm starting to see a limitation in Marvel's story telling though..it seems like they seem to wrap up stories within a single movie when it focuses on one character...it limits what they can do.

[@2402devin]

FACTS, off potential alone this movie gets a 4 for me. & to add insult to injury he only kills 1 god on screen and everything else off screen.

[@2402devin]

@@tobiaslawrence8928 the fact that we only see him kill one god on screen is insulting.

[@CryptidZeker415]

Guys, comic book reader here. And Thor Love and Thunder, as someone who read and liked the Jane foster Thor run, was basically like seeing Celine Dion's Titanic Song being sung by Weird Al. It had way to many deep topics like cancer, false gods, child kidnapping and etc that just, ended up being over stuffed with jokes

[@alejandroabraham4250]

and Guns N Roses

[@truboss9470]

I think Marvel’s biggest mistake is making most of the movies like Guardians of the Galaxy. The comedy took away from the story. By the time Jane dies and Gorr makes his sacrifice I felt nothing.

[@BareBandSubscription]

It seems to me like this movie is just what Taika wanted to do. I think they’re trying to give more creative freedom to directors, as demonstrated with Dr Strange, and Taika just so happens to specialize in comedy, so it is what it is.

[@truboss9470]

@@BareBandSubscription then why use the Gorr and Jane story? Using two dark serious stories for one of the most comedic movie the MCU has ever seems like a recipe for disaster.

[@adukejohnson9277]

it is so weird to see Oz actually in the studio. I've always seen him calling from a different place everytime he's on. lol

[@ajiththomas2465]

From what I've heard from other reviews (particularly Jeremy Jahns' review), a trend that I've seen that leads to Thor 4 (while still enjoyable) not clicking with people as much stem from _Thor: Love and Thunder_ having TOO much jokes, to the point where it detracts from the film? That was always a lingering issue I had with _Thor: Ragnarok_ , where I liked the humor but it's excessive focus on the humor clashed with the dramatic tone it was trying to convey the other half of the time. Often times, it felt like you were watching two different movies that were mashed together. You had the gravitas of Odin's death and Hela conquering Asgard be undercut by all the jokes that Thor would make that undercut that gravitas. I think that similar to that, in Thor 4, the issue seems to be rather than Thor simply making jokes, it feels like he becomes the joke? That it feels like people are laughing at him rather than with him? That if Taiki Watiti (an immensely talented director whose usually really great at balancing tones of comedy and drama, as shown in _Jojo Rabbit_ ) was really going to commit to the humorous tone, that they should have the antagonists and stakes match that rather than feel like Thor and the main antagonists are from 2 different movies? Honestly, I think why I consider Guardians Vol 2 and the Ant-Man films to have the right balance while considering Thor: Ragnarok to be too jokey is because of scale, stakes, and expectations. The Ant-Man films have never had end-of-the-world stakes but instead more personal stakes that affect only a select few people close to the characters. The scale of the stakes in comparison to the humor in the Ant-Man films felt appropiate. Meanwhile with Guardians Vol 2, while the scale is certainly much bigger, it's crux lied in the very grounded, human-like emotional journey of Peter Quill/Star-Lord. It helps that the GotG films never really took themselves that seriously. Now contrast that with the latest 2 Thor films, where the scale and expectations are much bigger. The main characters in the Thor films aren't humans or humanoid aliens but gods or at least advanced aliens mistaken for gods. When your antagonists are Hela the Goddess of Death and Gorr the Butcher of Gods, there's a rather high expectation of scale and expectations. The expectations set by Hela and Gorr being such menacing cataclysmic foes that cleave through and threaten the people and civilization of Asgard comes with it a certain expectation of gravitas and seriousness. A civilization-ending threat necessitates some gravitas. If instead the set expectation was more like Hela or Gorr had killed a group of Asgardian children or a personal friend of Thor's like one of the Warriors Three, and Thor had set out on a quest for revenge, then the constant humor and joking wouldn't clash with the tone nearly as much because the scale and expectations are set more appropiately. There would still be stakes and dramatic moments but the scale and set expectations of the main antagonists and how much of a threat they menace to be is scaled appropriately to the tone and humor. It's not like the MCU haven't been able to balance humor with drama, especially when it comes to Thor. If the humor and jokes were used as a defense/coping mechanism to help with fear and trauma, like we see with Thor in _Infinity War_ and _Endgame_ , then it'd be understandable and appropriate in a sense. But when the jokes are made just because and it goes from laughing with Thor making jokes to laughing at Thor as the joke, that's when the clashing of tones is really apparent. Concurrently, we never really see Gorr actually butcher his way through gods. I feel like that was such a letdown. Gorr is supposed to be a serial killer of _gods_ . I would've liked some more Hannibal Lecter shit, ya know? Have him massacre a few gods and/or show off a wall of grisly trophies like the heads or signature weapons of a few gods from different pantheons. Something to actually show and justify to us why Gorr deserves the title Butcher of Gods. Instead, Hela (or Thanos) has a better showcase as a Butcher of Gods than Gorr the God-Butcher does. Do you get what I mean? Does that describe the sort of disconnect that some people justifiably feel with Thor 4?

[@ProfessorThursday]

Phase 4 is setting up the multiverse battle of time lines. Each multiverse is going to fight each other and you'll find out that each movie/series is in a slightly different universe. All the adults will be doomed under Kang, but the new Young Avengers will save the day (and their parents). In the end, one time line will be preserved, but the adult heroes will give their lives to see that their kid hero counterparts survive. Each movie/series shows us a kid/teen that will make up the New Avengers at the end of Phase 5. Thor = Love Dr Strange = America Chavez Cpt Marvel 2 = Ms Marvel Wanda = Wiccan and Speed Hawkeye = Kate Bishop Eternals = Sprite Black Widow = Yelena Loki = Kid Loki Ant Man 3 = Cassandra Lang

[@SathishKumar-sk8fe]

I think from middle of Phase 2, people started to judge MCU movies based on what impact it had on shared universe as whole. Initially it proved to be beneficial, hence people are forgiving for slightly underwhelming movies like Captain Marvel, Antman and Wasp and one or two movies like those. But now that same thing is causing people to be little disappointed with Phase 4. Because projects in phase 4 still has not had very big impact on the shared universe like before.

[@cliffchai3742]

if you told me in 2019 that Star-Lord would end up becoming a less comedic and more emotionally mature main character than Thor I would have laughed in your face

[@dynastyfamily00]

Here is what the previous movies get right. *Thor is carefree, impulsive, and strong-willed.* Here is what this movie got wrong: *Thor is not a buffoon*

[@thebrownbaldy]

That last sentence tells no lies

[@BareBandSubscription]

But Thor has been buffoonish since before this movie, hasn’t he?

[@mutalemwananshiku4098]

14:22 actually i feel we have gotten more variety in tone than previous phases, eternals , black widow and shang-chi all feel tonally different from each other. Wandavision, falcon and winter soldier , loki and hawkeye and moon knight all are tonally different.

[@andrewbristow2817]

Man…I appreciate this channel. From the unique or common discussions to your live events, y’all are the REAL DEAL! 💯

[@aimanmarzuqi4804]

Welp, the theatres in my country (Malaysia) has recently announced that the release of the Thor Love and Thunder film will be delayed indefinitely, which probably means I won't be watching it in cinemas any time soon. So I guess I'll just watch spoliers about the films instead considering all the bad reviews that has come out about the film.

[@StoneyGamerNetwork]

Who gave it bad reviews

[@ablazindevilhead]

Where Phase 4 isn't working for me is the Multiverse itself. It seems there are no stakes because you can always copy and paste another variant from another universe and all is assumed to be good. If you kill off Captain Carter or Reed Richards then I'm not worried because you can just kill and repeat like dropping a quarter in the slot. And then why are some variants the same and others completely different characters other than to conveniently merge other studio franchises that the MCU re-acquired the rights too? It's not like I can't have fun with these movies as individual properties, but trying to link them all together for some future plan that hasn't been fully realized yet, just makes me feel they're making the same mistakes the DCEU did with JUSTICE LEAGUE. The other issue is, I'm not all the interested in all the Disney+ properties. I didn't finish FALCON or even attempted MOON KNIGHT. And if those are required to understand some joke or plotline in some future film, I'm just not that interested in spending my time on that. There are other more exciting shows and movies to watch and not enough time in the day for everything. In the end, what all Phase 4 seems to be is watching the legal system work itself out on our time and dollar. Marvel gave away so many of their character rights and now they're spending our entertainment time trying to get them back onto the Marvel ranch. It's like Marvel is using us to give him a pat on the back.

[@aerystargaryenii2565]

Why did Taika Waititi have to direct this film. Imagine if Matt Reeves or the Russo Brothers directed this instead. It could have been in two parts, a fresh breath of air for the MCU it was meant to be new, it was meant to be beautiful.

[@a.f.watcher8888]

Love and Thunder couldn’t seem to hit the same Lightning as Ragnarok. I thought it was fine, but it was like Waititi tried too hard to one up his last film.

[@JamesASharp]

In conclusion, Thor: Love and Thunder should've been a much better movie. If you like or love this movie, then good for you.

[@harlandenham]

Its so weird seeing Oz on the actual studio😆 wish it could happen more often

[@RaikenXion]

Oz in the house man!

[@Sazzy-Jones]

Gorr was creepy and intriguing but without the Klyntar power around that sword he won't be terrifying

[@billa107]

Multiverse of Madness kinda balanced the humor and seriousness a little better. I didn’t leave that one feeling exasperated. I think in terms of leaders, I think Strange could be.

[@TheTonytone77]

Besides the fact that strange was a side character in his own movie

[@afcg136]

Lmfao when Martin screams "No no no" because of the ad

[@earnieboy54]

The current MCU lineup feels all over the place. Right it kinda feels like a network lineup of shows. Ms marvel, falcon and winter soldier, Loki, Wanda Vision, Moon Knight… they are fun alone but in the grand scheme of things? I really don’t know. Especially with so many film flops like Eternals.

[@Omar-wq9dz]

The love story between Thor and Jane has never been good, even in this movie

[@MrBump2]

I just wanted more Gorr, the rest I was fine with. He was good, I just wish we got more God butchering per his namesake, make him a bit scarier with some more kills early on.

[@ajiththomas2465]

Yeah, I feel like that was such a letdown. Gorr is supposed to be a serial killer of _gods_ . I would've liked some more Hannibal Lecter shit, ya know? Have him massacre a few gods and/or show off a wall of grisly trophies like the heads or signature weapons of a few gods from different pantheons. Something to actually show and justify to us why Gorr deserves the title Butcher of Gods. Instead, Hela (or even Thanos) has a better showcase as a Butcher of Gods than Gorr the God-Butcher does.

[@jaimemarrero23]

I wish I was a guest to chime in as you guys were talking lol...but yes, I agree with the lack of leaders and headliners for these movies...as well as instead of building up to just one major endgame of Thanos, phase is planting seeds and branching off into building up to many different endgame paths like the Multiverse, lower level things from Falcon/Bucky, Thunderbolts, Young Avengers, the Cosmic side from Eternals and the Celestials, whatever Nick Fury is up to with SWORD, Thor, and whatever is to come from the Guardians, Black Panther and what's to come from that and possible new villains, Namor, Dr Doom with Wakanda vs Atlantis vs Latvaria...not even mentioning X-men & Fantastic Four. But im sure its building many big stories like Avengers vs Men, multiverse stuff with Kang or Secret Wars as the next endgame event with God Dr Doom and all the heroes.

[@Hellseventeen]

2 years later chris is already over marvel movies 😂 anyone remember how butthurt he was when Martin Scorsese said he didn’t think marvel made good movies

[@zengamer21]

When you said the leaders are gone I thought you meant behind the camera. Like Favreau, Whedon, the Russos, and Marcus and McFeely. For a while the MCU was like a relay race where Favreau kicked things off with Iron Man and then he passed the baton to Joss Whedon who did a couple of Avengers movies. Then James gunn got the baton and he did Guardians. Then the Russos got the baton and they did 2 Cap movies and 2 Avengers movies. Marcus and McFeely wrote 5 MCU movies and 4 of them are like the backbone of the MCU: Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame. All of those guys are gone.

[@warriorsfs]

Yep. And during that time period Stan Lee was still alive. So I think those directors were still inspired by having him around. With the exception of the Captain Marvel directors, who had no inspiration whatsoever.

[@thedefinitionisthis]

I had the same feeling watching this, as I did watching "Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol .2": It just felt like everyone involved approached the movie with the mentality of "This worked last time, so let's just do it again, but MORE OF IT." I thought "Ragnarok" struck the perfect balance of comedy, action and bits of drama. "Love and Thunder" I felt unleashed a bit too much comedy. I'm fine with a barrage of jokes, but if the jokes themselves aren't funny, then it just comes off as cringy. The one-liners and gags felt fresh and more fast-paced in "Ragnarok", but it felt real forced in "Love & Thunder". I also felt the movie should've been longer. Would've liked to have seen Gorr kill more gods than just the one at the beginning, and also as opposed to just being told he's butchering others. I would've liked to have seen Sif in battle more, and actually have seen Jane *become* Thor. One of my favorite sequences was actually the montage of how Thor & Jane's relationship broke down, because the movie took its time to develop that particular storyline and show why & how we should be invested in their reunion. I wish the movie took that kind of approach with some of the other major plot points. Given the major success of "Ragnarok", it's clear that Taika was given so much more lee-way to do what he wanted. Definitely felt like it went too far in parts, particularly in the first half. It's a tough thing, because Marvel has been criticized for not letting their directors be true to their own sensibilities.... however with stuff like "Eternals", "Multiverse of Madness", and now "Love & Thunder", where Chloe Zhao, Sam Raimi and Taika Waititi were all legit given free rein to adjust to their respective styles, and have come up with mixed results, as the final products feel somewhat half-baked, and fans are balking against these stylistic choices, period. There has to be some balance.

[@michaelsinger4638]

GOTG 2 handled the emotional stuff far better than this film did imo.

[@thedefinitionisthis]

@@michaelsinger4638 To each their own, as I didn’t feel any emotional connection to anything in GOTG2. I’m one of the folks who didn’t really think Yondu’s redemption was well earned.

[@joshuachristopher5181]

This movie is like Batman forever and Batman & robin situation

[@thedefinitionisthis]

@@joshuachristopher5181 Definitely comparable in how the movies were approached. Regardless of the reputation now, "Batman Forever" made a lot of money at the box office at the time, and was considered good rebound from the diminishing returns of "Batman Returns". So when it came time for "Batman & Robin", the execs said to Schumacher to lean into the camp, and the rest is history. The only difference is that "Batman & Robin" was universally panned, while "Thor: Love & Thunder" is getting more mixed results. Also, the latter is working within the context of being part of a larger cinematic universe.

[@CrowTRobot]

@@michaelsinger4638 yeah Guardians 2 has aged extremely well and I’ve liked it better over time. The individual arcs that each member of the team has in the movie feel very satisfying and come to a really strong conclusion.

[@gcolbyp]

I liked the movie, but I didn’t love it. For me the first act did come off as rushed and I wish the comedy was reign in a little bit to have that perfect balance, it did went a bit overboard in some areas. It was a bit rocky at first… But once the 2nd act kicked in, it got better as it went on for me. I liked Hemsworth once again, this movie turn me around on Natalie Portman and their romance, I would’ve love more of Christian Bale as Gorr but he was still great, same with Tessa Thompson as Valkyrie, when the jokes did land, I laughed a lot but the emotional moments by the end did work for me. It’s a movie I get why some don’t like it and it’s definitely in the mid section of my MCU Ranking, but I still had a good time with it.

[@CrowTRobot]

Totally, the first act felt like a reshoot or that it was missing scenes. Gorr’s entire character arc was mashed into a 5 minute scene that ended with him saying “and this is my motivation”. Act 2 & 3 were a huge upgrade to the movie. It felt more cohesive and connected.

[@ghost245353]

The movie never explained how Thor got his slashed eye returned to its original blue color. His artificial right eye that Rocket gave him in Avengers Infinity War was brown in color.

[@JoseRuiz-yh2eh]

With Ragnarok, I remember laughing at “get help”, I remember “you wanted to know who I was… *splat”, the intro with Surtur was both funny and badass. But with this one, I don’t remember laughing once…

[@coreywallace2052]

If a “film” isn’t good enough to stand on its own without the speculation of greater plot lines or arch’s in the future then it’s just not good. Stop making excuses because your scared of the fan base.

[@remymorgan9630]

They played Thor like he was Shazam: a child in a grown man's body. It didn't work. Gor should have gotten maybe five more minutes. The breakup flashback should have been bittersweet and not funny. You could have played the Russel Crowe Lightning Bolt Dance the exactly the same--minus the ridiculous tutu. And maybe get rid of Thor riding storm-breaker like a witches broom. Keep the goats. They were hilarious 😂. Jane sacrifice and the ending were... touching. And the introduction of Infinity as a character, that whole ethereal scene, while brief, stands as the most breathtakingly exquisite scene shot for a marvel movie. Full stop. The set-up for the next movie were quite frankly what sold me on this on. Hopefully Taika Waititi can reign in the zanyness. Watch it, Kevin. Your Feige is slipping.

[@thickbrownlegs1859]

Korey I was with you on your rating high rental. I wanted more of Christian Bale character. Too much shits and giggles for me.

[@NiJewel1]

I did not like it. They were trying too hard to be funny. We didn't finish it. We walked out after an hour and read the ending online.

[@ArcaJ]

Can't people disagree about a movie, without it being a whole thing. Some people liked it. Some people didn't.

[@venom74799]

Of this is the case, what’s the point of double toasted? We’re here to talk about why they like it and why they don’t. I don’t see anyone screaming and yelling about it.

[@benm5970]

What are you talking about? This is the internet, aka everyone’s personal bubble that’s catered entirely towards them and them alone, no outside opinions are allowed

[@ThePonderer]

This movie feels somewhere between Batman & Robin and The Princess Bride. Chris Hemsworth said this movie feels like a 7 year old made it, and after thinking about it extensively I think that’s a feature, not a bug. The whole movie feels like an intentional childish story ABOUT childish stories, designed to ask the audience how much they’re willing to invest in these characters/this world even at its most deliberately immature. That said my favorite part on reflection has to be the ending with Gorr. The way Gorr is made to see that a God is capable of empathy and love, and even gets to see his Daughter’s death paralleled with Jane (Thor cradling Jane looks just like Gorr cradling Love), it’s a really impactful resolution.

[@palaniuki]

If the childish side is a feature, it's weird to put a 5mn joke about an orgy. For me it mostly doesn't even know what it wants to be, it's just a big mess. The movie is exposition then the action then exposition then the action. And of course with jokes every two seconds. But that said I really enjoyed your review and the way you wanted to see it :)

[@chrisbrown8748]

3:04 Martin has horrible taste lol. I’m sorry but if this was one of your favorite movies of the summer than damn bruh I don’t know what to say to that cause this shit was terrible.

[@FrankieTakesOver]

Felt like a 2 hr SNL skit. Every character was doing a parody of themselves. Joke after JOke after JOKE! Edit: Also for a God killer who hates God's to give his daughter to a God....🤣

[@langreeves6419]

What do I want from the mcu? More Kat Dennings! It was disappointing to see so little of her in this movie. She was so fun in Wandavision.

[@andrewpowers3697]

my brother just dies from cancer two months ago and humor was what saved me. i don't understand people who complain about comedy.

[@GojiraRising]

It was like Guardians Vol. 2 when they pushed certain gags that weren't funny to the limit but it was way goddamn worse than Vol. 2 plus I felt that Ragnarok was a tad bit overrated.

[@mutalemwananshiku4098]

Yea guardians 2 had humor that went over board but it still had great character work.

[@omaridaniels8427]

T'Challa probably COULD have filled one of those leadership spots, even though he didn't enter the scene until Civil War, but that's not possible now.

[@SathishKumar-sk8fe]

I still don't like how they are not open to atleast talk about recasting. Yes, it is very sad Chadwick is not with us anymore, but there are other good actors who can play T'Challa. Disney should be open to this, because right they are afraid to recast older characters with new actors in Star wars. I can understand about Star wars decision, but MCU is based on comics where there are different version of Black Panther exist which are written by different writers and drawn by different artists.

[@pugman9672]

@@SathishKumar-sk8fe I’m sure they did have that conversation behind closed door but in the end they didn’t want to recast

[@avgnfandon2]

@B my whole thing is that we shouldn’t have to go to the length; it’s this universe’s T’Challa so bringing in a different one’s T’Challa just doesn’t feel right to given that that universe’s T’Challa wouldn’t and shouldn’t have the same experiences/relationships/etc as ours and would effectively reset all that to zero

[@Alaiik]

I went in expecting the movie to be cartoonishly silly so I had fun with it! It was just another comedy to me. But I personally don’t care about the comics (at all), so I understand others who were expecting a lot from the Gorr storyline and felt the movie failed to deliver. To each their own. It is unfortunate to see people trashing Taika Waititi’s abilities as a director though; he has an impressive resume that shouldn’t be discounted over one movie.

[@aspengechel3723]

I love what Oz said because I truly think that what it is now marvel has conditioned us to expect something big after the movie and that everything is connected and gonna lead up to something but now all we have is filler and too much filler back to back

[@nanairomiso]

I was definitely on the full price side, but I generally enjoy Taika's work/comedy anyway? So maybe that's why? I noticed in other reviews some people didn't appreciate comedic material being thrown in with scenes about cancer, but that didn't bother me much either. It's been interesting to see the different opinions on it.

[@danieltobin4498]

Yea, some say it’s a whiplash but…I think that was intentional. It was supposed to rip you out of your comfort zone.

[@nanairomiso]

@@danieltobin4498 exactly. Felt like an interesting way to explore a typically heavy topic.

[@nikobelwilliams9739]

The real reason Phase 4 kinda sucks is because there's no real goal to this saga. There's no real drive, there's no real reason or porpous why events are transpiring. It's like these movies are being made just because they can be.

[@Str8talk50]

"We have watched and listened from the mountains, as you have criticised everything Snyder had to offer, and now you want to give a pass to this trash which didn't make any sense whatsoever, hmmmmmm, we will not have it,I said we will not have it toe

[@Crunch_Buttsteak]

100% do you see this hypocritical bullshit especially from Chris?! Jane Foster is compelling??

[@050679rudy]

I love Kat Dennings. There was not enough of her in this one

[@jimmiegiboney2473]

Mark 17:24. I forgot to do this before! (Ahem.) Congratulations on your new sponsor! 🎊🎉

[@HubertCampbellTravels]

We needed more Gorr

[@Steg_The_Man]

To me, it felt like a Wayans Bro parody movie from the 2000s. Joke after joke after joke. Thor made into an incompetent idiot who seems to have regressed in capability actually. Plus Gorr the God Butcher...butchered ONE god...in the beginning.

[@PharaohDom]

What I like about Phase 4 is the characters stories being more insular. I like that there is no overarching villain or obvious threat. I mean, I'm also not a fan of comics doing the obligatory big summer event. I like when the stories and characters have time to breathe in their own lives so to speak.

[@k.delpino1124]

Thor Odinson in the MCU feels more like his comic-book successor, Eric Masterson. Ditched the helmet & cape, grew a ponytail, rocked a vest and called himself "Thunderstrike". Christian Bale as Gorr was convincing as sympathetic and sinister. If they had him for more films, he would be an even greater villain. Natalie Portman as Jane and becoming Lady Thor was a nice addition and her storyarc is just fine. Tessa Thompson as Valkyrie had more to do and I enjoyed it. Russell Crowe is so hilarious as Zeus. New Asgard as an theme park is too weird. Hercules showing up was not what I was expecting. I figured Herc was so overrated that we would never see him. One of the first classic Thor stories I read was about them in a grudge match. If Phase 4 is moving towards something, it's being hidden for a reason. We got 4 more films left. Black Panther 2, Ant-Man 3, Guardians vol.3 and Fantastic Four. We'll see.

[@BlackThoughtTheOverLord]

I know Gorr The God Butcher was only ever going to be in just Love And Thunder, but I felt the character was a wasted and should be been more memorable (Thanos levels rather than Malekeith).

[@DJReadyCee]

Thor Love & Thunder was like going to a 90s Hiphop Night somewhere and all they play is Fresh Prince.

[@Yesthatsmyfirstname]

I just saw this today and it's one of my all time favorite MCU movies now... Can't believe people aren't liking it.

[@ishraqtalukder4518]

11:04-11:24 Chris’s crush on Kat Dennings 😂😂

[@SoulStarSketchin]

What a nice surprise to see Brad as a guest. And yea overall I still liked this one but it feels like a step down from Ragnarok

[@catspaw3092]

They could've given the goats a more thunderous baa baa instead of them just screaming.

[@traesmith9822]

Probably Korey's best ad read since talking about his gamecube

[@danwilliams1989]

I was never into Thor being into a comedic buffoon. I actually hope Thor’s next appearance they actually take a the character more seriously.

[@lamo1724]

What mystifies me is how $100 million can be spent on 'filler movies'. The source material for Love & Thunder was rich enough to reap many rewards. If Disney are just churning out content for their Disney+ platform, then they should also consider that long-standing series that lose their quality ultimately end up losing their audience xxx

[@haitiankid9456]

I agree with the complaints that nothing feels connected but at the same time I can't help but see the irony because at one point people were complaining that the early phases were too connected and they needed to have more standalone stories. Now we have that and they move the goal post. I think ultimately the problem is just that the latest phase 4 movies just haven't been as good, and the fans have higher expectations now. I think if every project was amazing then there wouldn't be complaints about it not being connected or leading to anything.

[@BlindedBraille]

You can have standalone stories that either connect to the larger universe or have major consequences for other stories. However, the MCU is too busy trying to set up a million crossover storylines from the comics to even figure out how to do the former.

[@haitiankid9456]

@@BlindedBraille I mean that's literally most of phase 4, just cause you can't see how they tie in to the bigger universe yet doesn't mean they don't. But don't worry Feige's gonna map out the next 5000 years cause folks don't know what patience is these days

[@BlindedBraille]

@@haitiankid9456 People aren't paying attention if they think they aren't setting up stories. Kang, Dark Avengers/Thunderbolts, Secret Wars, and Young Avengers, are all things they are current building towards. So, I don't understand the criticism. If anything I think Marvel needs to go smaller and stop hyping up the fanbase with cameos and quick fan service.

[@haitiankid9456]

@@BlindedBraille wait are you agreeing with me or disagreeing

[@BlindedBraille]

@@haitiankid9456 I agree 90% and disagree 10%.

[@Brokephi316]

Green Goblin in the MCU Kicked Ass!!!

[@cedricfowler3465]

Thor's learned everything he needed to be a good king and leader already. He already values humility, responsibility, and wisdom. Does he need any more character development?

[@quistopherdavis9549]

Character development doesn't end, it just shifts.

[@fangal12]

It's a shame they keep throwing his character development out the window in between movies

[@lightdarksoul2097]

Well he learned he wasn't meant to be a king and while a good leader, his ego and personality had caused to face defeat again and again. He is willing to learn to be better though and at the end of this he had his humility and responsibility but wisdom is a bit much. He's smart in different ways. I think his next journey like next movie won't be on his growth but focused on Herc and Love learning from Thor

[@rkvang479]

Is that why he ruined that planets sacred palace with no regards? sounds like he went backwards

[@lightdarksoul2097]

@@rkvang479 Yeah I think that was to just show gods lack of care for mortal's stuff. Like Thor wouldn't let these people die, but he doesn't care about damages. He wasn't there for the complaining in Civil War

[@crf122]

I loved the movie. Jane dying made me cry, can’t even lie. Also feel for Thor, poor guy is constantly losing loved ones.

[@Stitchpuppy01]

The more I sat around thinking about this movie the more I dislike it. It was so much fun for a theater experience, but when you hold it up to Avenger lore it’s a train wreck. It’s like Thor is his own Universe now. The scene in Endgame where Cap catches Mjolnir is so powerful because it worked up 10 years of lore; not just anyone can use it. While Jane Foster is a woman of incredible accomplishments and can be seen as a hero in her own right, in this movie it seems like she kind of got a pass because she used to fuck Thor.

[@Arikarinful]

This movie was straight doodoo compared to Ragnarok. The first half was almost sleep inducing and the end just made me go "THAT'S IT!?"

[@captaintaco979]

Completely disagree with the Mandarin being a weak villain.

[@Lyfeiswhatumakeit]

Thor is cooked, hulk is cooked, iron man 💀, cap is 👨🏻‍🦳,

[@cinematicsterling6897]

the movie is definitely some ol’ bullshit to me. the jokes were awful, the story is filled with plot holes, inconsistencies, and continuity problems, a lot of visuals look really bad for a big budget marvel movie, korg is even more annoying than he was in ragnarok, thor is an idiot once again, the love triangle between thor, mjonier, and storm breaker was stupid, the goats were annoying. only things i liked were christain bale, natalie portman, and the soundtrack was good when it wasn’t relying on guns n roses. i don’t want to see taika waititi write or direct another marvel movie ever again

[@alejandroabraham4250]

This was just a very expensive Guns N Roses music video. Disgusting.

[@robs9237]

Most phase 4 movies seemed underdeveloped and like something is missing. The movies don't feel whole or balanced.

[@RockPuncher]

Whoever gives this movie a full price, should check their fucking heads.

[@rockbusterproductions]

The second a well acclaimed filmmaker loses their step on a project, the reception switches. This happens with almost everyone (Spielberg, Rian Johnson, Patty Jenkins, and now Taika Waititi) and it's kind of hilarious. The best filmmaker in the world can't land gold every time, and usually they can get back on track with one or two other projects. Taika Waititi is an incredibly talented guy, Jojo Rabbit won him awards and tons of nominations and most of his work is great, I just think Disney has him reeled in for a bit because he's in almost everything they make right now.

[@samspotz8r8s]

A villain that was also comedic would have been interesting. Jeff Goldbloom is honestly probably my favourite villain out of everyone. That's just my opinion though, since I never really expect or want much more than a fun popcorn movie out of marvel. I'm a casual fan at best 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@tempusspiritus]

Very late comment: I enjoyed Ragnarok so I’m for comedic Thor yet I highly disliked Love & Thunder. I “might” have laughed once as to me it was overly stupid, childish humor and it wasn’t balanced as well. I think Ragnarok handled the humor much better. Outside of the humor the movie was also just badly written to the point it’s hard to say “outside the humor” as I felt like most of the content was purely humor.

[@chrisbrown8748]

5:53 This movie just wasn’t funny though I can’t even imagine laughing throughout this film.

[@gcolbyp]

After this movie, Phase 4 has been big discussion right now and I’ve heard both sides of the argument and I wanna give my piece on it. I guess for me, my thing with Phase 4 and the state of Marvel so far and why it’s been divisive is not so much of it’s been directionless or the quality is dipping, it’s more so a “finding its footing” problem. I think the pandemic did probably mess up their plan and maybe that’s why they’re still trying to figure things out right now. With the “directionless” complaint, I think there’s been hints in the movies/shows on where it’s heading, it’s just not that clear yet, and right now they’re just expanding the universe and introducing new characters, I’m with Chris that I think it’s gonna lead into Secret Wars, but we’ll see how that goes. And Martin brings up a good point that right now the fans are spoiled, they just want to know where it’s all heading towards and how it’s all connected right now, and I think the key in all this is something I know people don’t wanna hear: patience. Things might click once this phase is over (which is almost soon) and Kevin Feige said with Phase 5, things are all going to start to come together on and we’ll finally see the clear path we’re going towards, which he probably might announce at Comic Con next week or D23 (we’ll see), we just have to wait just like with Phase 1 and 2 on where it’s heading. I know with the amount of projects we got, I know it feels like we’ve been in this phase for awhile, but we’re still the first year of this new era. As far as the quality, well that’s subjective. Some people agree with you guys that a lot of the Phase 4 entries haven’t lived up to their potential. But I’ve seen some that they’ve liked most of the stuff that’s came out. For me, this phase has been a mixed bag, there’s definitely some issues with how they’re handling it, some entries I wasn’t in loved with like Black Widow, Falcon & Eternals, and I am getting a bit overwhelmed with the amount of content we’re getting. But that doesn’t mean I haven’t really liked any of the Phase 4 shows or movies (Wandavision, Loki, Shang Chi, No Way Home). And some of your points I do disagree on, sure Eternals and Black Widow had some lackluster villains, but I thought Wenwu was a great villain. Sure I would’ve prefer not killing him off and making the final battle more small scaled and personal, but I thought the movie did a great job on making you understand his motivation and Tony Leung was great. And I agree with Oz and Chris with the No Way Home villains, and I didn’t think it was just for nostalgia, as especially the Green Goblin played a big role in Peter’s arc in that movie. And as far as the variety feeling the same, I actually think this has been the most experimental phase so far. Granted they do fall back into the MCU-isms, and that sometimes can be a detriment, but I don’t think Marvel is solely relying on it and I think they recognize they need to change it up and I hope they continue that. With Eternals, Multiverse of Madness, Moon Knight, Wandavision, Loki, etc., now depending on if any of them worked is up for debate but they’re trying. Hell I know Deadpool 3 is gonna be Rated R, as much as we thought otherwise, the writers of the previous Deadpool films, Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick, said they let them go R-Rated. Plus when people say the quality hasn’t up to par with previous films from the other 3 phases, let’s not act like The Infinity Saga was flawless. Yeah there’s been some great movies obviously (Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Guardians, Avengers 1, Infinity War, Endgame) but they’re all spread out in between other films that range from “It was good, I had fun” to “Meh, it’s alright. Y’all can do better than that.” So the quality ain’t that much of a difference. So even despite some issues I have with this phase, I’m not feeling the MCU fatigue yet or think the quality has dropped. Sure there’s projects I’m cautious about and I think they need to ease up on adding more content for Disney+, but I’m still interested/excited for certain projects coming up like Fantastic Four, Blade, Deadpool 3, X-Men and looking forward to where it all leads to. You mentioned how you’ve been more interested in what DC has in store because you feel they’re diversifying their stuff and I would agree that after The Suicide Squad, Shazam, The Batman, Peacemaker, that I am really excited for certain DC projects coming up, but there’s some that I’m on the fence or had me going, “We’ll see, but I’m a little nervous.” I’ll be honest, the Black Adam trailer didn’t really impress me, just looks generic to me and when they doing a sequel to Joker and I’m like, “Is this necessary?” Also Wonder Woman 1984 showed me that they can still make a stinker. So they’re both on the same level of interests and excitement for me. I know this makes me sound like a complete Marvel shill, but really I recognize the flaws and even agreeing with some points people have made. I’m just being more optimistic rather than cynical like some people are right now. I’m still rooting for Marvel and I’ve been enjoying the ride, they just need to get things straightened out. But that’s my long ass TED talk. Thank you for coming.

[@thedefinitionisthis]

Despite some differences in opinions on individual Phase 4 projects, I agree wholeheartedly overall about Phase 4 in general. A huge criticism of the MCU has been the fact that a good portion of the Infinity Saga has felt like “the same thing” over and over again. A case can be made that Phase 4 has been the most experimental the MCU has ever been. But after ten years, we think we know what needs to be delivered, and what standards the franchise as a whole can attain, so when we don’t get that (or at least if we don’t get it the way we’re accustomed to), it’s jarring especially after Infinity War and Endgame. I definitely agree with the notion that the Infinity Saga being an outright perfect execution is untrue, because you’re right: from 2008-2019, we did get a fair share of movies that were merely okay. We didn’t get a “Winter Soldier” or “Avengers” every time.

[@gcolbyp]

@@thedefinitionisthis Yeah exactly! Sure the MCU-isms are still there, but I do think they’re taking chances and risks, depends on whether they work or not. People complain about the movies in Infinity Saga felt the same and now they seem to now let their directors put their stamp on it, now sometimes (in this movie’s case) they need to be reign in, but they’re experimenting a bit. And again once they announce the stuff in Phase 5, things will get more clearer, right now they’re expanding and setting up in this phase with some subtle hints on what’s to come.

[@margotk538]

I feel like they didn’t spend enough time for us to get to know more about the other Gods aside from Thor and his family. All the other Gods in this movie are A-holes so I don’t really feel the impact of why Gor’s intention is bad…they should make us care more about the Gods who are loving and caring and worth saving. They spent way too much time on jokes that doesn’t land and it was getting annoying. I am a big fan of Thor Regnorok but this movie is a big meh for me…

[@Mikepepp2]

Was still better than. Multiverse of Madness It needed 30 to 45 minutes of thor the dark world seriousness

[@Tamlinearthly]

Just a note that a lot of people--the DT crew in particular--hated it when Phase 2 and Phase 3 movies paused the whole film to remind us about Thanos and the larger plot that was going on.

[@haitiankid9456]

Exactly, people forget

[@thefirstbourne149]

@@haitiankid9456 Yeah, except they stop eventually built up to it. Bad doesn’t mean movies were that great.

[@ryanosullivan2858]

To me it’s about balance. Infinity war handled Thor the best. They knew how to balance Thor in serious moments and comedic moments without over doing it

[@dante6563]

I agree. Definitely agree.

[@bobheyotue9850]

IMO Those screaming goats were annoying

[@randomfools808]

And you got to hear them a good 20 times. I was annoyed everytime they showed up.

[@bobheyotue9850]

@@randomfools808 facts couldn’t agree more

[@brolockaye]

I'm with Martin. I absolutely loved this movie.