Thor Love & Thunder's Bad VFX Couldn't Have Been Any Better!

[@SzymonAdamus]

They are not super villains. They're a perfectly real corporation that behaves like all, under-regulated, corporations do - it wants to get its hands on all the world's money.... and that's it. It's not the people or the artistic values that matter, it's the columns in Excel.

[@KrunoslavStifter]

Quite true. And if you add woke insanity to the mix, you have a modern Hollyweird. Best to let it die on its own or put it out of our misery and allow something more healthy to take its place.

[@SameerKhan-oi5bp]

KlljgvQ

[@mikekolokowsky]

So congress should get involved and mandate better vfx and CGI? The writing was lousy, it wouldn’t have helped this movie.

[@carlosrivas1629]

@@mikekolokowsky its ridiculously over the top like the last one, just more of it. Taiko prob hjad the egos of all the stars to deal with plus his own. dam. i liked it, it tried and showed us the marvel afterlife. Also introduced Hercules and the god of wine and drink, Bacchus.

[@carlosrivas1629]

Bacchus should be Charlie Day, period.

[@Azrael__]

I don't usually even actively notice this type of bad CGI, but I can feel it. When I'm watching modern MCU movies I just feel like I'm watching weightless, plastic-like cartoons that don't exist in any type of physical space.

[@ryancols]

It's been this way for half the life of the franchise

[@jassphantom9884]

word

[@saanasalonen8684]

@@jassphantom9884 big up my man!

[@ElieBoutros1]

It has been like this since Age of Ultron, that’s when Marvel started taking a dip in quality, while there are some bangers after that, the majority of Marvel, since the first Iron-Man, isn’t all that great, at least in my opinion, like there are only a few movies that I can pick out that are worth rewatching, the rest are fillers to me.

[@xpellidagoat]

@@ElieBoutros1 the best is infinity war

[@CurriedBat]

This movie could be a how-not-to-produce-a-film-film

[@mikekolokowsky]

Apparently, Tahiti Waikiki the director shot over four hours of crazy sequences. It got cut and cut and cut. Amazing to me how a big executive signs off on spending a hundred million plus dollars for a movie that doesn’t have a final script or a game plan. Every scene that gets dropped is like half a million dollars in the trash.

[@mynameisjonas4191]

​@@lichoscar apparently Waititi is confident and wealthy enough to trust the process. The guy is so well known that doesn't need to fear much about such things anymore.

[@cadensam7]

The black and white moon scene is still cool af, and my mind will not be changed

[@purefoldnz3070]

one of the worst movies ever made.

[@purefoldnz3070]

@@cadensam7 bahahahahahahahahahaha ...but seriously

[@faaip]

The problem is marvel trying to aggressively push so many movies and tv shows per year. The fact the planning was so poorly done with so many edits shows they need to slow the heck down and actually plan this stuff out rather than just have planning as an exercise. If their first movies had this much "fix in post", they'd have gone bankrupt and failed.

[@SweetCandyDragon]

They definitely need to slow the heck down. There was an Ant Man movie that came out last month (I haven’t heard anything about it and I could care less) and I saw a trailer for the next Guardians of the Galaxy yesterday. I skipped the trailer because I don’t care about these marvel films anymore

[@DanielDuhon]

No they need to STOP MAKING MOVES! All they are doing is making crap movies when there’s no more story to follow

[@L3HMANNN]

KISS .... They're worse than Burger King. Throwing everything at the menu to see what sticks. Go with quality over quantity. Makes for a much better experience.

[@randwilliams5552]

It's not even just the output, which would be bad enough, but Director's wanting to constantly change and redo things that should have been polished and set in stone before the VFX team got their hands on anything is killing the final product. Everyone on that set deserves to be there and spent time to make things were as good as they could have been for what was asked of them. How can you expect them to do better on a second draft with less time?

[@zootin6688]

@@SweetCandyDragon i would definitely separate the guardians movies from most other marvel films. they're the only movies that actually feel like the director got to actually do his job, and make a movie that has its own style/voice. im happy to say that the new gotg movie actually has me excited for a marvel movie for the first time in years, just because james gunn has proven he can do what he whats with those movies, with very little studio interference. still scared the cgi wont be very good though, given this marvel trend. the first two actually had pretty great cgi (to me at least), but these last trailers have had some scenes that look a lil off to me.

[@TheJohnWhites]

From the black panther train scene on, I've never blamed the VFX artists, it's always on the studio/director

[@njux1871]

almost always*

[@nishaadjadhav]

i keep hearing people talk about that scene yet i still dont see any lapses in cgi, could you pinpoint things from the scene so i know what to look for

[@Azrael__]

@@nishaadjadhav It just didn't look real, especially when their masks were on and they were fighting. It's kind of looked like a video game fight mostly because (and I'm just using what I think are the correct terms, I'm no pro) the lighting and texture of the suits were wrong. Also, there was some weird editing possibly to hide the CGI, but most likely because since it was fully CGI it was difficult to capture the effect of a real camera recording the fight.

[@woIfson]

@@nishaadjadhav time to get new eyes? like seriously that scene is horrible and cartoonish

[@arandombard1197]

@@Azrael__ It just wasn't finished. They were told to do that shot 4 weeks before the premiere. It's insane.

[@placebo_yue]

They are abusing CGI. Someone should tell the director or whoever took those stupid decisions to suck it up and move forward with the movie

[@jamham69]

If anyone needs reminding, the original jurrassic park still looks amazing. that was 93, and kept digital effects to a minimum by using practical effects wherever possible. That film has aged like the finest wine.

[@ryancols]

​@@jamham69 if anyone needs reminding evil dead remake is far newer and looks solid

[@VolcanoPheonix]

@@jamham69 the guys behind the cgi in jurrassic park had to fight hard so it would be used, the original plan for all the cgi shots was to use stop motion puppetry

[@maurne7020]

@@jamham69 no they don't

[@ferociousrazordino3581]

​@@maurne7020yes, yes they do

[@conyo985]

Man this just shows how bad Disney/Marvel are. Also I blame Taika too. His ego got bigger because of his past success. He needed someone to reign him in.

[@user-ef7kt5sf6o]

I think for this film it’s mostly the blame on taika but for films like black panther with the train scene it’s more the studio

[@ryancols]

​@@user-ef7kt5sf6o it's all or nothing

[@TVperson1]

I'd love to see the Disney CEO try to do an effects shot while all the artists laugh

[@DrakeOola]

Do taika is a bad?

[@saanasalonen8684]

@@DrakeOola taika is awesome but he used to understand budget and how to work with it as an visual artist but it seems he has forgotten that.

[@AndrewCortesi]

The number one red flag is starting to shoot before the script was done. The studio wouldn’t have so many problems with the production had things been planned out from the start.

[@jamham69]

and thats what happens when it isnt a man that makes a film, but a boardroom.

[@ThunderlipsJoeYT]

Yes and to a small degree no... To be fair every producer and director round table tends to remark every screenplay is written 3 times. The og script, then during shooting as ideas happen but also solutions are needed when the set cannot replicate what's on the page, then a 3rd and final time in post (you shoot like 10 times more movie than what ends up the final cut). Also, yes, these same round tables all agree if it is crap on that first 'page' then no amount of director or vfx/post super powers can make it not suck.

[@voltinator]

@@ThunderlipsJoeYT There's a little of that in every movie sure. The directors in this case have to make the little innovations that come up during filming connect with other scenes or not violate other scenes down the road. This is probably why Taikka turned Love&Thunder into a comedy so that the cause and effect was less important than the joke in every scene. But ultimately with an incomplete screenplay you get madness and chaos on set. I don't know if this was foisted on Taikka with a short deadline or he simply couldn't come up with a reasonable story with what he was given. But ultimately someone should have stopped the madness and sat down to refine the story pages to get a better resolution.

[@mr.alkenly889]

I mean the shinning was rewritten many many times but it is still heralded as a good movie

[@shanekixmiller2133]

It's hilarious that they had built the Oasis set and then went back and mess with it digitally. Does anyone remember legend from 1985? That film has some of the most lush and beautiful Forest I have ever seen and I always assumed that they filmed in an actual Forest. I was blown away when I learned that all of that was soundstages. So, if they could do it so well back in 1985, there's no excuse for this now. Love and thunder was garbage. I was so angry when I left the theater. Especially since I loved Ragnarok so much.

[@graymoon3000]

Agreed. Legends sets were Legend lol

[@ynkybomber]

Craftsmen are all gone bro

[@darkblades1201]

Dagobah was also a practical set

[@flam7469]

They did the same thing with The Thing prequel. Created all the practical effects, then went with sloppy CG.

[@Marvolo14]

The lightsaber duel in The Force Awakens was also all done on a soundstage set. The forest was all created in camera, and cgi was only used for set extension, backgrounds, sky, and the lightsaber vfx.

[@BthIX]

People say this movie has bad CGI from a couple goofy shots but don't realize that whole sequences like the intro are almost entirely CGI instead of practical sets. That goes to show how talented the VFX artists are

[@LuckyOwI777]

same with She-Hulk. Everyone complaining how horrid the vfx are, and then glossing over all the amazing, flawless work that happened, like she dress in the one sequence. Stuff like that. People want to just harp on anything that's not perfect. Also, there' were other struggle with She-Hulks vfx, but I won't get into that lmao. Other hurdles that people that knw nothing wouldn't even think about. Just complain complain complain.

[@ShadowRulah]

​@@LuckyOwI777 Nobody cares about all the times you don't pee on the floor.

[@aliensoup2420]

@@LuckyOwI777 Yeah, like did you notice in 2001:A Space Odyssey how some of the spacecraft had no perspective shift, like they were 2d cutouts? Gawd the effects in that movie were terrible. (sarcasm intended)

[@LuckyOwI777]

@BEANSPOBBLES Read my comment again, then come back. Also, plot has nothing to do with what we're talking about, and I didn't comment on that And I'm not "glossing over" anything. But pop off, I guess

[@LuckyOwI777]

@BEANSPOBBLES People complaining how horrid the VFX are, specifically. When they have no knowledge about the industry. Poeple love harping on the few bad things, and completely ignore all the stuff that's actually done well. Thanks for clarifying that you didn't read my comment, and lack the skills to udnerstand what I'm talking about. Also, not talking about any of the movies here. Alhtough my point still stand for those as well. I'm not talking about the plot of anything. I'm not talking about how good or bad a move or show is overall. Please show me where I talked about any of that, which you keep bringing up. I'm only talking about people complaining about poor VFX, and exaggerating beyond belief. Refusing to ever look at anything that's done well. You're acting like I'm sitting here saying She-Hulk was a great show, and people should never complain about anything. when that's not even close to what I said. But if you feel the need to shove words in my mouth and complain I'm talking about stuff that I'm not actually talking about....you do you. I love how your entire argument against me, is taking the last sentence of my point and playing it out of context, lol.

[@pinadibenedetto8204]

Can I just say, thanks for speaking slowly, clearly and with a relaxing tone, for not rushing your talkingbon video, like others shooting similar content have the tendency to do, which gives headaches just by trying to understand what they say

[@rejectionperfection250]

I was a vfx artist on a Disney+ show that came out last month, and the studio was CONSTANTLY making these types of nit-picky little changes to the production in post. It always took a ton of time away from the big vfx sequences because they never moved deadlines to allow for these changes, making everything in the show look much worse in the end. To add insult to injury, none of the vfx artists were featured in the credits except for the supervisor and project lead.

[@StuartLugsden]

1) I feel sorry for the people in VFX industry. I can't imagine working in such a horrible environment and getting such horrible treatment. Its not right and hope one day you'll be able to unionise and put an end to it. 2) When you say studio do you mean Kevin Feige? Because I wonder how much involvement he has when it comes the VFX now, especially now with his attention always split across multiple projects.

[@RhysClark97]

Taika's approach to film-making also puts a lot of stress on larger budget productions, he likes the naturalistic spontaneity of improv which can work really really well when done right, the problem is this introduces post production changes that in already expensive movies like this leads to absolutely ballooning production costs if the VFX artists are expected to spend years on it, so marvel doesn't let them, Marvel sets a release date, knowing the movie will look bad and just expects the audience to go see it nyways.

[@GreenMagic0]

Fun Fact: In that thor flick scene, Chris Hemsworth was not actually nude. He was wearing pink shorts which they CGI-ed later.

[@carlosrivas1629]

Figured that.

[@user-ef7kt5sf6o]

Didn’t chris say he got naked

[@salvadorromero9712]

Really? That's ridiculous. I guess it's better than "butt doubles" as they used to have but if true it was certainly due to his lack of confidence in his posterior. Thought he'd be more chill than that but just shows you anyone can have "body image" issues. It also looks from these and some other set footage that the butt wasn't the only thing that received a bit of CGI in that scene.

[@dest5218]

@@salvadorromero9712 doesn't mean he has lack of confidence in his body, but even if he did big whoop man, lotta actors don't wanna go nude for any reason, pretty okay if you ask me

[@avithedev]

@@salvadorromero9712 is upset he didn't see Thor's butt

[@allyourpie4323]

There are times when this applies: "Starfleet captains are like children. They want everything now, and they want it their way. But the secret is to give them only what they need, not what they want." - Scotty to La Forge

[@Yuvsore2]

03:54 Great analysis. But I am still wondering how the green man was able to finish that banana. 02:31

[@IvoPavlik]

VFX bro :-D

[@umbertold]

My, oh my. I love your explanations of behind scene moves and invisible workers.

[@Zlittlepenguin]

Ngl this actually did kind of open my eyes a little bit. It must be infinitely frustrating to have to go through reshoots and effectively just have to do entire scenes digitally and try to make it look good. I dunno man, Disney just doesn’t have any idea what it’s doing anymore… they really need like a year off from releasing anything lol

[@Vynzent]

Seriously with the amount of changes they do they might as well shoot everything in front of greenscreen with even the costumes just being greenscreen. Since they will throw out most of the image anyway.

[@rheawelsh4142]

It's actually insane to think that there are people out there who are fully comfortable asking for an entire set to be Remade as a 3d model, wasting dozens of hours from talented artists who could have spent that time making the action sequences shine, because "I want the opening scene to be greener"

[@alcrian8627]

The problem was Taika Waititi. We all had a glimpse back in Thor Ragnarok but people ignored it. We have two Thor's portrayed by the same actor: the one before and after Taika. Thor is now a silly, dumb character with a few seconds of sobriety. He even stated that he doesn't know Thor as a character and he doesn't care. It's a shame.

[@nrelationship]

Agreed

[@johannduplessis3467]

Why was he given the job if he doesn't know the character?

[@unknown3158]

@Neil Deep The OP didn’t mean Chris but Taika or whatever his name.

[@ryancols]

Nope he's silly in Thor 1 and 2

[@johannduplessis3467]

@Neil Deep He said he doesn't care to know the character

[@handcoding]

I really appreciate this analysis, and I’d love to see more videos like this!

[@IvoPavlik]

You can. You just subscribe and send a few pennies as a form of appreciation. Simple as that ;-)

[@scoobydoo23320]

People often wonder, is screenwriting important? And this is exactly why it is. During the screen writing process you not only develop the story you plan out dialogue, the locations, the action scenes and how actors move in them. The script acts as the plan or blueprint with a unfinished or rushed one you get mid production changes that can be hard to work around.

[@sailorsenshi6]

Definitely the later, Marvel demanding last minute changes, imposing impossible and nonflexible deadlines, going for directors that lack the understanding and experience and will to actually understand and acquire the experience needed for a VFX heavy production and ultimately over relying on the usage of technology that is still being developed and putting it in the hands of the directors mentioned above. CGI is a tool in the hands of a visionary director, it supplements his vision, he/she builds that storytelling with that tool, but lately Marvel seems to be building the story around an idea with heavy usage of CGI. A great early example is the opposite company's Superman Returns. That movie contained the plane scene from the Superman Flyby script which for the time was truly magnificent on the screen. So basically they build a 150 minute theatrical cut around that scene and well, that went well...

[@rakoonshampoo2608]

I remember people at Marvel stating that they purposefully seek out these small directors so that the studio has all the power in the partnership. They essentially look for directors that they can bully and push around. The fact that they go for these directors that lack experience is 100% intentional on the studio.

[@dscataglini]

I used to get crazy requests (I was asked to change the color of some building after I delivered a 3 minute animation) by people in the late 90s, because frankly they didn't understand how vfx work. It's not the 90s and Marvel knows very well what goes into vfx. Artists are taken for granted, vfx companies have to buckle to demands all the time, because once they take the job, it's their name on the line

[@andybrice2711]

I've been noticing this for years in Marvel VFX breakdowns. They make props, sets, and costumes which are not quite up-to-standard for a big budget film. And then just end up rotoscoping out everything and replacing it with CGI. Seems like a massive waste of resources. They should either make a decision beforehand, or just shoot the whole thing on green-screen.

[@andrewreiersen]

The green man in the back was obviously CG

[@Heizemann]

And still: this scene with gorr vs the god was the best scene in the movie (mostly due to bale getting a chance to actually act)

[@yarugatyger1603]

I'm acquainted with some vfx artists at Trixter, they all stated marvel was a bad client and always wanted every done shot reworked and overworked, even when the deadline was already close.

[@ranchandard2840]

How about they focus on the story line instead of the VFX?

[@Reflect21]

Still terrible, video would be too long

[@LoneliestGuyintheUniverse]

The director will still change or scrap any good ideas on any well written stories.

[@astrinymris9953]

Taika Waititi doesn't care about story, or at least not in his Marvel films. He believes superhero movies should be flashy and ridiculous. I feel sorry for Christian Bale, who really tried to deliver a good performance. Pity he didn't talk with Tom Hiddleston before taking the role.

[@XMysticHerox]

@@LoneliestGuyintheUniverse It's not even just the director. It's corporate boardrooms demanding movies be a certain way rather than paying someone with a good idea.

[@covagotnext8337]

Tony's suit looked so real and amazing in Iron man 1. That was the 1st MCU movie. And Ironman's suit looks better in that movie than it does in Endgame. Which is one of the biggest movies of all time

[@vgm_composer]

I've been in companies where they ruin everything in post so I totally get this. Great vid! Tell mr green i love his music!

[@joseph7858]

very well narrated and demonstrated: thank you for this insight! 😊

[@shahidmalik9184]

I was one of the the Lead VFX artist on this movie. I appreciate your take on this issue.

[@StuartLugsden]

Can I ask, was Taika to blame for the constant changes or was it the studio? A lot of the time it's said that it's the studios fault for changes but here I feel its both.

[@NeoKaiser0]

I feel bad for the VFX artists. Not only are they treated horribly and get the blame, but they also have to do all this work with a broken heart.

[@corruptangel6793]

I honestly thought it was common knowledge that it wasn't the VFX artist's fault. Damn, I feel even more sorry for them now

[@mambaman3632]

If they are indeed the bullies they have been accused of, then they are super villains. Thanks for breaking things down the way you always do. It is enjoyable to see your technical skills on display in these breakdowns of VFX in movies.

[@calelsun]

I liked the god in the oasis and his original costume more. Yeah the cgi version was prettier but i think the original version looked more like a nature based deity in how organic and crafted it looked

[@nerulon089]

I miss the early 2000's when every year a new technology came out and challenged everything before. Movies like The Matrix for example.

[@bikechan9903]

Talks about early 2000s Mentions movie from 1999 Excellent

[@AlyssMa7rin]

Star Wars Episodes 2 & 3, LOTR, Spiderwick Chronicles, Iron Man, Captain America, Harry Potter...

[@rodryguezzz]

There's Avatar. Dune also has some impressive stuff mixed with practical effects.

[@phoenixdzk]

I will never forgive this movie for replacing Thor & Zeus' wholesome moment together with that stupid orgy planning committee scene

[@Chaka2nd1]

Wow! Great video essay. I love it, and that is no VFX lie ;) To your point, though, Marvel DC-ed Thor Love & Thunder. Or Marvel totally Henry Cavil/Joss Whedon Justice League Thor Love & Thunder. Also, you can use all the VFX you want. It cannot replace good storytelling, which is what happened. Even Chris Hemsworth did not really enjoy the last one; he said so. On another issue, Marvel, ever since the success of Avengers Endgame, they have been pushing and pumping out Marvel films like rubber ducks on an assembly line. Even rubber ducks can be boring after a while. This is why now they are slowing down, thanks to Bob Iger. But the push for VFX affects films and shows such as Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk. Not gonna lie. Ms. Marvel is a slog to get through. And She-hulk's transformation in the first trailer made her look like a Pixar character. This is why I have yet to watch it, yet. As I said in the beginning. Excellent video essay. I cannot wait to see the rest.

[@IvanDP1994]

Well it’s like how capitalism works. Firstly it’s boost the progress, but then, when money flow starts to go down, it starts functioning the opposite.

[@baron6148]

Let's all appreciate the VFX team for carrying this "film" single handedly

[@slothomatic]

Any time I see "bad" vfx in movies I don't automatically blame the artists themselves. I know a lot of studios treat vfx as a magic afterthought that can fix anything with a click of a button. They have unrealistic expectations and unrealistic budgets. 90% of the time bad vfx arise out of directors that don't understand how vfx work, so they don't shoot the film with that in mind.

[@heckensteiner4713]

00:13 I worked in VFX on 3 Marvel movies and 1 Disney+ show. This is how all of their movies are made nowadays. 75% to 95% of the final movie you're watching is reshoots due to constant script changes. It wasn't quite as bad in the early days when they needed a lot of careful planning and there was less CG. But now, their are constantly remade as they're filming which can lead to a garbled, clumsy, and rushed mess of a film.

[@Man_iCR8]

Good day, is there a way I can link up and be tutored by you?

[@grandsome1]

I always blame the director and producers it's their vision, everyone under them is scrambling to produce it. They should know the limitations and work around them.

[@WhiteManBehindADesk]

Good luck to the VFX artists working to unionise.

[@jakescartoons6045]

At this point, if they're not going to take advantage of the live-action medium, they may as well go full-on animated. That's what I did, after all.

[@Dcuniverse60]

Your are kid 😅😅😅😅😅 aminated kid

[@jakescartoons6045]

@@Dcuniverse60 Seriously? Why does everyone assume I'm a kid? I'm freaking 24 years old!

[@BartokandBadIdeas]

Okay so rapu's design definitely was greatly improved in post imo but it would've been better to just reshoot than cgi a slightly different helmet. Further evidence to the fact that practical effects should be used as much as possible

[@ghosttwo2]

Despite critic complaints, I've found LaT to be the most rewatchable Marvel production since Loki. It's just a clean, self contained adventure that doesn't spend too much time in one place, or running in circles.

[@80Bucks]

& it’s got the guardians of the galaxy :D

[@astrinymris9953]

I think VFX studios should sign a contract up front with Marvel (and other clients) that says how many scenes they will produce for the price *and that any revisions will cost extra*. Plus, this additional work will roll back the initial deadline. I think Marvel has come to see VFX as a cheaper way to make movies, and to view VFX workers time as an inexhaustible resource. Why should they care how much overwork and stress they put these workers under? They've already paid, so it's essentially free labor for them. Given Taika Waititi's desire to be constantly "improvising" so that he can make movies with plots that could have been written by seven-year-olds he's a particularly egregious offender. I suspect his cracking on the VFX artists in the infamous clip was his pouting that someone finally put their foot down on his irrational demands. If he had a fixed budget and knew any changes would deplete his available funds, he might grow the hell up and write the script before filming starts.

[@Sellner82]

Once green guy whipped out a banana I lost my attention span😂

[@SK22520]

I love the guy casually eating a banana in the background even tho he wears a full face covering mask

[@chrisk.1539]

Deadpool's brother background eating banana with the mask😅😂👍.

[@AAGEnzee]

I appreciated the banana joke. Very subtle, guessing most non-film people didn't notice, but good job on the continuity.

[@LeSpicey]

You forgot a few VFX studios who worked on the movie, but yeah, it was a mess of a movie to work on

[@pseudonym9215]

Taiko Watiti should be never given a project as big as this. He is Taiko the Thor Butcher.

[@ElGringoLatscho]

2:38 nice visual background joke

[@FameFocus]

Thanks! I was hungry...

[@BitewingGames]

Seriously, I am super impressed! They not only had him eating the banana there, but also the next scene shows the banana partially eaten. Excellent planning for something so few people will notice!

[@caephusagnola3493]

This video was short, Informing, well edited, had a point and stuck to it, perfectly executed and didn't have uncle jokes. Something I haven't said in a while watching KZbin. 👍

[@M201___]

Love you sir. From India 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳

[@noneofyourbusiness4616]

Just wanted to thank you for saying "this leaves the question" rather than "this begs the question."

[@falconzgamecircle]

This video was rlly interesting and all the tips and break down it gave me want me to watch the movie now

[@carnsoaks1]

Why they turned that Golden Gods head into a crown seemed idiotic. Why a God figure would have a crown, does not make sense. His head, being a sunburst was so much cooler. Waitikidollssuck should have his A.D.H.D treated .

[@falconzgamecircle]

@@carnsoaks1 ikr

[@kptitan1501]

As Motion Animation creative I can say this man speaks facts and that clients expect upmost quality in the the shortest deadlines because some producer or decided to play art/VFX director. Load of crap what some clients try to peen pinch out of creative studios because of how white label contracts works (Ghost Making). RIP

[@ryanlever6418]

Hey @Fame Focus Got a vfx question for you ? Which software do you prefer to use Nuke or After effects or something else ?

[@FameFocus]

AE all the way!

[@ryanlever6418]

@@FameFocus really i love node based work like nuke but i keep hearing good things about AE

[@oliverhilbert8143]

Just throwing 2 cents in here. Apples and oranges imo. VFX processes (in film) pretty much require Nuke. Sure both are compositors. Both are great tools. Both can achieve equivalent images but does not mean AE is the right tool for the job ;)

[@TheMCricket]

@@oliverhilbert8143 Not just film, tv shows! High end publicity as well

[@ryanlever6418]

@@oliverhilbert8143 Yeah I mean I love nuke I am a sad person who can enjoy doing roto for hours in it hahaha.

[@edenwayne8407]

I'm glad they made Gorr look more human. Based on the cgi quality of this movie, it would have distracted from his amazing performance.

[@fffx2]

Disney managed to ruin Marvel, Star Wars, AND ILM in 6 years lol

[@Idle1996]

Disney owned marvel since before the first avengers movie

[@bluedotdinosaur]

Something that more people need to understand as well: while rushed production and constant editing do wreck planning and execution of VFX, a lot of people have become infatuated with the idea that everything they see should, as they imagine it, feel "real". The difference between the infamous train fight in Black Panther, and literally any scene in Love & Thunder? BP was aiming for a natural aesthetic. And the CG stunt doubles in the train fight where not just rushed but literally unfinished by the current standards of visual effects. By comparison, Love & Thunder is literally trying to appear hyperreal. It is fantastical with depth of field, saturation, and lighting pushed in ways that aren't supposed to appear natural - believable within themselves, but not like reality. And in most shots, it does very well. I don't think a single shot actually looks as placeholder and unrefined as the BP train fight. There's a similar problem with the reaction to Quantumania. To be clear, that film is more of a mixed bag. Like Love & Thunder, the goal for the aesthetic in most of it is hyperreality and dream space in the quantum realm setting. And there are plenty of shots that are well-done and finished just fine - but they were never supposed to appear naturalistic. It does however suffer from a lot of scenes that veer into Black Panther territory - the nature of the film's aesthetic helps smooth them over, but they do clearly suffer from production pressure.

[@cne1975]

That movie was unwatchable

[@ozogo]

But that was a perfect parody of Chuck Norris in the sequence. First the splits than down into a full round house Chuck Norris style. Hilarious

[@TheCollegeActivist]

where do you get all the behind the scenes footage from?

[@bizarro20daves]

rising sun released a lot of footage showing how the shot was made

[@laurenoe]

The moment you take the weekend or stay up all night to over-deliver and exceed expectations, is when your client forgets the level of work you just did is not normal to achieve that. In media, when you have so many people competing to get work, this sort of "race to the bottom" is what makes the studios/clients feel they can get away with anything.

[@mikekolokowsky]

I thought for sure that Hemsworth doing a split was CGI. Wow, that is impressive. I work out with weights like Chris, but I have the flexibility of a tin woodsman.

[@poopheadtwenty-seven540]

How does one improve their flexibility?

[@DingbatToast]

Look at the photo again. Chris is wearing green leggings and the 2 other guys are holding his false legs up 😂

[@geroni211]

@@poopheadtwenty-seven540 there are plenty of exercises you can do, but it takes time

[@HarduntheRanger]

Do you know why it looks CGI? Because he's meant to be doing the splits between two objects, but there's no sense of contact. There's no solid connection between his feet and the surface, making it look fake because the physics are all wrong. They would've been better off imo having Hemsworth do the splits on the ground or a green box with the green people pushing against his feet from the sides. It looks like his legs are fake and floating because they filmed him being lifted from below. The physics is all wrong and your eyes can tell

[@DingbatToast]

@Hardûn Chris can't do the splits irl. It's just bad cgi making it look as false as it is.

[@wrightvcx2249]

Am I the only one who did not find VFX in this Thor movie bad? I actually even enjoyed the movie. Except for Natalie portman's part in the movie. Loved Russel crow as well.

[@chrisk.1539]

At least they made Amazing job in VFX.Liked the movie it had some dramatic scenes and a lot of humour,i hope they will made 5th Thor movie.

[@robertcoggeshall3071]

Me too. I don't get all the hate from that vfx view.

[@Theeoutcaste]

@@robertcoggeshall3071 they way the wrote Gor that's why.Thats a god butcher !!!

[@My2Drumsticks]

If you don’t see a Marvel movie the first week, it’s reputation as just a bad movie gets exposed and you really don’t worry about the VFX. That comes later on Disney Plus.

[@Derekstefan]

This is actually really informative and insightful. Also in the description, it is "were pretty bad" not "we're pretty bad".

[@otakushinsaku]

Visual effects artists are the backbone of the film and television industry, creating stunning and realistic images that bring stories to life. However, they often face harsh working conditions, low wages, long hours, and lack of recognition. That is why it is a great idea for visual effects artists to unionize across the entire industry like how directors, writers, and actors have union representation. Unionizing would give visual effects artists more bargaining power, better benefits, and more respect for their work. It would also help them to establish fair and consistent standards for their profession, such as minimum rates, overtime pay, health insurance, and credits. Unionizing would also foster a sense of solidarity and community among visual effects artists, who often work in isolation and under pressure. Unionizing across the entire industry would ensure that visual effects artists are not exploited by different studios or companies that compete for contracts and undercut each other. It would also prevent the outsourcing of visual effects work to countries with lower labor costs and regulations. Unionizing across the entire industry would create a level playing field for visual effects artists and protect their rights and interests. Unionizing is not only a great idea for visual effects artists, but also for the film and television industry as a whole. It would improve the quality and diversity of visual effects work, as well as the working conditions and morale of visual effects artists. It would also foster a more collaborative and respectful relationship between visual effects artists and other creative professionals in the industry. Unionizing is a win-win situation for everyone involved.

[@FredKuneDo]

It may change now after Victoria Alonso left Marvel Studios (but I am not really sure that she was even the one, or only one, responsible for the problems) Honestly I think, that the Marvel Producers should consider creating some movies and shows with Superheroes which do not need a massive amount of VFX work. The best example is the upcoming shows of Daredevil and Echo and possibly Punisher: Daredevil and Punisher had good runs on Netflix. And these shows had VFX, but they had mostly practical effects and awesome stunt choreographies. Best would be, to do one "low need of VFX show/movie" every time they need more development time and workpower for the next "big need of VFX show/movie".

[@ThunderlipsJoeYT]

*was fired Also there's reports Daredevil under Alonzo was going to be primarily CGI, she refused to rehire the stunt double who did all the work on the Netflix run of the show. Now that she's gone this may change but agree the shows and movies need to focus on good scripts with good practical effects so that the CGI/VFX are icing and not filler

[@FredKuneDo]

@@ThunderlipsJoeYT, do not give so much on rumors that are coming from stupid people, who do not have clue how fightscene-stuntwork is done and why CGI alone would never work for these scenes. Yes, it is right that Chris Brewster, the stunt double from the Netflix-Daredevil-show was not hired for the Disney-Daredevil-show. But: They hired another stunt double. In the appearances of Daredevil in "She-Hulk", it was Justin Eaton, who doubled Charlie Cox in fightscenes. And I guess they stick with him for the new "Daredevil"-show. He has a similar skillset like Chris Brewster and the decision was most likely made because the producers already worked with Justin Eaton. In example: he was a fight choreographer on "Falcon and the Winter Soldier" and the stunt double for Wyatt Russel as "US-Agent".

[@ThunderlipsJoeYT]

@@FredKuneDo I enjoyed the she hulk show unlike a loud minority of folks. But compared to previous D+ shows there was a huge amount of CGI that didn't need to be CGI. Much reporting including statements from the show runner back up both cases made in this video: rewrites putting VFX folks in a bad spot and D+ execs promising writers do whatever at the start then turning down the resources after committing as such. The fight choreography and limited effects on the Netflix show I recently rewatched looked on par with Loki and far better than that on WV, Falcon, et al. The point I was trying to make was recent evidence supports the reports that they WERE planning to keep moving the CGI action direction. With her gone and a 'new' Disney CEO maybe we see a shift? I would argue using the double of more recent endeavors bolsters those concerns. Not that I have a problem with his work but the end products he's been in compared to the end product that was the Netflix run.

[@FredKuneDo]

@@ThunderlipsJoeYT, just look here on KZbin for a "stunt reel" of Justin Eaton. As a stuntman for "martial arts fight scenes" he is really similar to Chris Brewster. In fact, they often worked on the same movies. About "She-Hulk": Yeah, there were a few "CGI-shots" that were not necessary. But "She-Hulk" herself was CGI and so interacting of other characters with her already needed much CGI and other VFX in postproduction. I am not afraid that they will use CGI in fightscenes of the new Daredevil-show. I am more afraid, that they use too much "Matrix-wirework" or other stuff and show Daredevil as too powerful. I mean, in "Falcon and the Wintersoldier", you had mostly characters who are "enhanced" by different versions of a "Supersoldier Serum" ("Winter Soldier" by the "Hydra"-version, the "Flagsmashers" and later "US Agent" by the "Power Broker"-version). This was actually a good storytelling to show how "John Walker/US Agent" really fails as a normal human at peak against the enhanced opponents and takes the "Supersoldier Drug". (And ironically the new "Sharon Carter is the Power Broker"-thing did not contradict the storyline of Netflix -"Jessica Jones". The guy who gave "Jessica Jones" and "Trish Walker/Hellcat" her powers, "Karl Malus" was the original "Power Broker" in the comics)

[@aliensoup2420]

If you are not sure Victoria Alonso was responsible for the problems why mention her in that context? Victoria started out as a visual effects producer for Digital Domain and Sony Imageworks, so I'm sure she is aware of the myriad issues of visual effects and working with the vendors. Unless you are inside the producing machine, there may be many considerations you are not aware of.

[@madtabby66]

Thanks! Just because I love the evolution of your channel

[@FameFocus]

Thanks!!! ^^

[@ds_the_rn]

God, The Volume is just so revolutionary. I started college wanting to be an art director. I chickened out after 2 years and switched majors away from art. I felt I couldn’t keep up. I’m afraid The Volume may put some people out of work.

[@ali32bit42]

its too expansive for most studios to use at the moment. and art directors wont loose their jobs since people still need to build all the digital sets

[@aliensoup2420]

Technology has always put some people out of work. But it creates new jobs for other people willing to evolve. Technology continues to advance, and population continues to increase yet most people still have jobs.

[@HoodedHavoc]

I remember thinking a lot of the odd vfx shots like the floating head was meant as an homage to old school 80's movies. Though the pressure the vfx com0anies working with Marvel at this point is sad to imagine.

[@kylespevak6781]

The movie didn't have bad VFX it just didn't have subtle VFX

[@BalgaBear]

The last statement is true of all multi-million+ companies nation wide, I've been involved with several and they're all the same. Set unrealistic expectations, employees leave, gotta hire new emplyees, train them, set unrealistic expectations and the cycle continues.

[@OsloTime]

I always learn so much from your channel!

[@kidkouga92]

Something I'd like to add to this conversation. The issue behind this is the Marvel pipeline quota. These things aren't being given enough time to bake with screenplay writers, costume and set designers. Otherwise things like the background would be known in advance

[@youthereth]

I felt like the VFX in Love & Thunder were better than many Marvel movies, I think the Black Panthers stand out as the worst to me. Nice to see someone bring up more than the floating head. That being said, I feel it deserves mentioning, the floating head looked as intended and is a call back to much older sci-fi movies. To someone my age it's pretty obvious, but a huge chunk of Marvel fans are younger and probably unaware of the call back.

[@Kira1Lawliet]

What we really need is a union for VFX workers. They are the ONLY group of workers in the film industry that don't have one, because they're the only workers whose industry came around after the great deregulation wave brought about by the Reagan administration (as with most terrible things in society, it can be traced back to Reagan). Having unions would mean higher pay, which means VFX would cost more, which means studios wouldn't feel so comfortable over-relying on it in favor of better-looking practical effects and filming on location as opposed to green screened sound stages. If you want people to make quality work, you have to disincentivize laziness.

[@TylerVGaming602]

With Iger back, he said they will return to quality over quantity. Phase 1 took 4 years to conclude, phase 2, 2 years, phase 3, 3 years and Phase 4, one year, with phases 5 and 6 set to be done within the span of one year. They’re overloading the VFX studios and the quality of the MCU has tanked!

[@CallMeMrX]

I worked on this and we were all glad to see it finally done.

[@Virtualblueart]

Not in VFX but in advertising, and we get similar situations. Whole photography sets are done and models hired etc forca job, we complete it with the client there, according it. All per spec and agreed upon. Days later clients decide the table looks wrong, the color of the wall must change and several models have to becreplaced with other models from different shots. So lots of photo manipulation and some 3D as well if needed. Its hard to do those things and always there is a risk of it ending up looking weird or off because of that. Doesnt happen often, but it does happen and its often a slog.

[@amswil3232]

I JUST LOVE YOUR NEW BRAND

[@stephenjohnston7630]

A balanced, informed and informative critique of a Disney project? Is it the End Times? Subscribed.

[@cromcccxvi3787]

I never realized how much I like real scenery and not greenscreen until this year

[@hehemonke4364]

Personally I like to think of marvel’s movie quality is similar to the life cycle of a star. It starts stable, but as it gets larger and larger it becomes more unstable and eventually collapses.

[@MattRose30000]

Being the best in the industry doesn't change the fact that designing for a client is an iterative process. Also, having dozens of studios involved means that nobody is able to see the full picture during their work. That's why movies like Avatar and Dune look so much better. They don't have better CGI artists, but a better directed and streamlined overall design process.

[@butcher568]

I think a big problem is that many directors and execs still have absoluteley no idea how vfx works and they dont bother. I work as a compositor and half of the requests are idiotic and nonsensical.

[@Vyanjansharma]

i didn't understand how mr green eaten that banana ?????

[@BoyBlunder66]

Marvel's definitely had a problem with rushed productions and excessive concurrent projects recently, thankfully some of the newer shake ups at Disney and Marvel may change things for the better.

[@carlosrivas1629]

Taiko Watiti like Joel Shumacher had his hands more tied in the first movie, repsectively and because of its success got more freedom to do his own thing. Helmsworth and Tessa Thompson felt under pressure since thier own movie MIB international bombed so they tolled away as they shot to make someinth they all could work with and changed things as they went from what does look like a story with maybe a rough outline. speculation, pure so.

[@RocketJr.]

When i think about it, Watiti could be the perfect director for Deadpool! 👍

[@DABA2024]

Can I just point out that this is how many Mandela Effects happen. Chris Hemsworth is one of the biggest stars on the planet, and MANY people, including you, call him Chris Helmsworth. This is how we get people thinking it was the Berenstein Bears.

[@noahshad09]

@@DABA2024 I was genuinely confused by who “Helmsworth” was.

[@Abdousjh]

Nice video and good observation. But it can’t be completely perfect, since it takes a lot of effort and time to make a movie.

[@edwardfletcher7790]

I blame Taika, he's a self indulgent child who needs more supervision..... SIGH Never, NEVER start a film without a completed script...😩

[@VitorHugoOliveiraSousa]

Yup, you see something like Dune Part 2, the script was ready in the pre production of the first film the results in less than two years of production they delivered something leagues better than whatever Marvel put out since Endgame and Infinity War (thos movies have some really good invisible effects). The saddest part is that they do this changes last minute so they don't even have time to do them right. Because with enough time and money they could work up those kind of magic tricks they wanted. Just look at Ultimato time travel suits, they are completely CGI put on post and the actors weren't using special VFX costume to make the work easier later, they were using their normal superhero clothes. Yet the effect is almost flawless. Besides some soft shadow in the neck of characters and the face when the helmet opens up, there is nothing that indicates they aren't real.