The Canon Fodder Problem

[@Ultimabendessen]

Reminds me of when Chewbacca received Han's Medal of Yavin from Maz Kanata at the end of Ep9, even though it was revealed in the Chewbacca #5 (2015) comic that he actually did receive his own medal after the ceremony in Ep4. I guess in canon, Chewbacca just played dumb and was happy to receive an extra medal anyway.

[@emberfist8347]

I think it would be more in character that he kept the medal because it was Han's first. Remember Han was family to Chewbacca.

[@Jansenbaker]

Why does anyone see that as him "getting what he should have gotten 30 years ago"? It's a memento of a friend.

[@emberfist8347]

@@JansenbakerIf you strip away the context it is Chewbacca getting a medal for the Battle of Yavin. Casual fans think he didn’t get one after the battle. In reality he did and there was a scene where he was supposed to be shown getting it put on him by Leia, but it couldn’t be filmed due the height differences of the actors involved.

[@volksdude1970]

​@@emberfist8347 I've also heard that (supposedly) wookies fight for honor, and materialistic symbols, like war medals, are meaningless. Chewie was awarded the medal, but refused. At least, I think I remember seeing somewhere where that was the reason given why he "wasn't given a medal".

[@emberfist8347]

@@volksdude1970 I found the New Essential Guide To Weapons and Technology note that Wookiees do tend to have engravings on weapons to honor past hunts and the like. So that would contradict that claim. He also likely wouldn’t have participated in the award ceremony if that was the case.

[@AndreNitroX]

The expanded universe had its own canon issues but it had an amazing timeline full of events that were delivered on. I just became a fan of the EU and I keep finding amazing stories, meanwhile i have purchased none of the disney content

[@waterbears9874]

Plus I think the EU had the advantage of not being as “official” as stories under Disney are if that makes sense, they literally promised us a unified canon and can’t even do that

[@travismiller4320]

I used to order every EU book that was released. I’ve saved a lot of money since Disney started their own book series. Disney doesn’t run a “Legends” along their garbage because Disney would have to admit that Original EU is better then Disney EU.

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

The Clone Wars Multimedia Project is honestly superior to TCW, just for Quinlan Vos' character arc alone. The post RoTJ material is a mixed bag : not a fan of the Bantam Spectra novels and how they overuse Imperial superweapons, but the Thrawn trilogy, the NJO and Legacy of the Force novels are good. Also love the Legacy comics. Then we have Dawn of the Jedi, OG Tales of the Jedi, KOTOR 1&2 and the comics, Knight Errant, many good SWTOR novels, and the Darth Bane trilogy. It was a beautiful all-you-can-eat course, and they threw it away.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@travismiller4320 exactly right, all their work is inferior to the amazing writers of the EU

[@braxxian]

As far as I'm concerned you as the fan decide what's canon for you. The EU had some great stuff whereas the majority of what Disney has produced has been garbage.

[@extantsanity]

I think Phase 1-3 of the MCU handled it brilliantly: yes, the Marvel comics are/were a mess in terms of continuity and consistency-of-quality, but the movies nevertheless managed to respectfully pay homage to the greatest storylines the comics had to offer. In devising a master plan for the franchise, Kevin Feige had an entire library of work to draw inspiration from, PLUS the track record from the fans to see which storylines were the most popular and well-revered. All they had to do was simplify the storylines that the fans already loved, without insulting the audience in the process. So no, I don't believe in "required reading", but Disney would have done well to either "loosely" adapt something like the Heir to the Empire trilogy (the way the MCU "loosely" adapted Infinity Saga) or even just pay homage to the characters, with respectful easter eggs that tell us they knew who their audience was. Tossing it all out and then having the gall to say, "Gee, writing is hard..." as an excuse for terrible story choices and the lack of an overall plan... is literally just the worst hell they could have accidentally conjured up out of their ineptitude.

[@jiggycalzone8585]

"All they had to do was simplify the storylines that the fans already loved, without insulting the audience in the process." A notion thats been proven true with P4+ which has complicated the storylines and gone out of its way to insult the audience in the process

[@tinybee7780]

Cancelling the EU then deciding to borrow some ideas from it afterwards just makes Disney look lke jerks. You can't honestly tell me that Disney is using the phrase "Heir to the Empire" without the fans associating it one way or another it with the EU book. Also, it still baffles me how the Lucas Story Group manages to keep their jobs while looking at the numerous inconsistences in both the film and the Disney+ shows. I know that it's supposed to be hard to keep track of this things that span for many years but isn't that exactly the reason why they have the job in the first place?

[@achaudhari101]

Your first sentence is debatable and hypocritical because Lucas would have and did the same thing.

[@JoRoq1]

At least with bringing Thrawn into the Disney canon, Zahn has remained involved with two new novel trilogies and has been a consultant with Filoni in developing the character for the Ahsoka series (and possibly Rebels). As for the LSG, they haven’t been an actual thing since ROS and developing the High Republic. I think they still officially exist, but you never hear much of anything about them anymore. Especially after Pablo Hidalgo’s attack on Star Wars Theory. But it was clearly proven they were more interested in their own pet projects than in actually keeping the lore and canon straight.

[@AndreNitroX]

they are such losers, they got rid of the eu just to start stealing from it, when their own creations failed

[@chasehedges6775]

@@JoRoq1 👍

[@stephenelberfeld8175]

In the jewelry trade, the difference between amateur and professional craftsmen is that a peice has to be functional and not easily damaged from constant wear. Antiques must be repaired or restored with the same technical skill and applications used by the original designers. Showing how original you are only works if the design protects gems from wear or damage while fitting comfortably in prolonged use. A film franchise should be managed with the same regard to the original work. Changes in design must be approved by the customer before proceeding, or there will be trouble. No matter how clever the design, functionality and approval are essential or the peice will soon be melted down to make something new.

[@Alec11_43]

The EU/Legends also had plenty of crazy and messy things, but the big difference is that they were more than aware(accepting) of that, and thus better equipped to deal it. They had a transparent(official) and well organized canon hierarchy, so strange stuff like the early Marvel comics could be reconciled in broad strokes. Disney’s claim of superiority through a more streamlined while discontinuing the old one not only made their messy stuff look worse, but left them less prepared fix things. Not to mention, you have to consider how the very core of Disney canon(mainly the sequel trilogy) is already quite messy on it’s own.

[@mpnuorva]

Yeah, no. Almost all of Legend's Sith lore is built on Anderson deciding that an organization of two humans in RotJ used to be a species, and that the Dark Side being quicker and easier means the Sith are a Jedi splinter faction. This gets layers built on it, as all newer lore is fit to that. The Jedi get a similar treatment: dramatic but morally dubious actions and views are piled on each other. The Imperial Remnant emerges as a proto-First Order early on, and proceeds to reconquer the galaxy as the New Republic and it's successors are systematically kept from becoming the establishment RotJ sets them up as. A lot of the sillines is at the core of Legends, and cannot be removed without collapsing it. And when TCW only flirted with that, it caused whining in the fandom.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

​@@mpnuorva what's wrong with Sith being a Jedi splinter?

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

⁠@@mpnuorva the "sith lords" weren't the alien species, the sith purebloods were. It wasn't a terrible inference to make from ANH's deleted scene where they were mentioned anyhow. When it's not just a title and your the Lord of something specific, that could require more explanation then the Jedis title might. Just as well, I don't see why an order that's existed for as long as the Jedi's couldn't have had morally compromising moments or changing dynamics. If the jedi order was completely infallible they certainly wouldn't have fallen from grace in the first place. The imperial remnant....i'm not dying on that hill, not for dark empire. Still the New republic got back on it's feet at the end of the day and became a powerhouse that could go up against some egregious threats for the rest of the timeline. I don't see how any of the changes TCW 2008 did were any less silly as they were needlessly complicating the timeline, or just being sloppy.

[@wolfscar5557]

Well I mean to be fair to the old EU, it wasn't exactly established till...you could say the late 80s/early 90s and even then had some hiccups along the way. I mean for a long while, we only had the OT, so Dark Empire(at the time of creation) didn't cause any huge glaring issues, along with mentions of the Clone Wars being about armies of Force Users. So on and so forth. It's only when the PT came about, that there was continuity issues...which no one was really going to be able to account for, it's not like Tom could see into the future and Lucas was personally ok with him bringing back Sidious for DE. But yeah, the old EU after all that, did seem a lot more consistent, especially with the CWMMP that despite it being in multiple media forms with the CW Microseries, comics, novels and games, it was a pretty perfect timeline that led up to ROTS. Post-ROTJ was more or less consistent, well I feel like sometime later it got weird with Luke's characterization and just going back to the status quo with the Jedi Order not being based on Yavin 4.

[@emberfist8347]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 It wasn't the Sith Lords who were a species. They were a group that the aliens worshipped as gods due to their powers. Timothy Zhan previously wanted to use that idea with what became the Noghri but he was told not to name the Sith. Also the Imperial Remnant isn't a Dark Empire thing. The Empire in Dark Empire is called the Dark Empire the Imperial Remnant came latter.

[@schnarre0]

...EU trumped canon in consistency, characters & overall feel, at least for me. Given that Lucas had to approve anything written for it, we can see when he was on point or lost in thought for what to do next. That canon is trying to scrape so much from Legends (likely just to destroy them, given Disney's track record to date) shows how rich the original lore was!

[@ManiacMayhem7256]

EU did pre-2008 definitely. Thanks Dave Filoni and Force Unleashed

[@gameragodzilla]

@@ManiacMayhem7256 I’d say Force Unleashed was fine. Even kept Garm Bel Ilbus as one of the Rebel leaders since that was established in the Thrawn Trilogy.

[@ManiacMayhem7256]

@@gameragodzilla The issue with Force Unleashed is it makes the same issue Kenobi TV series does. Bail Organa and Bel Iblis were both captured by the Galactic Empire and brought in front of Sidious and Vader on the Death Star. Yet they managed to operate as senators publicly for two more years????? Bail was still an active senator by the time of A New Hope

[@gameragodzilla]

@@ManiacMayhem7256 I always chalked that up as the fact that Sidious couldn’t execute them without evidence to justify it, given he’d still be beholden to some level of PR. Same reason why Leia was brought to Kashyyk as a prisoner rather than just being killed outright, with even the death threat framed as a Wookie rebellion. The execution on the Death Star would’ve been preceded by a Soviet style show trial rather than just quick executions that would’ve created martyrs. Doubly so given that the Senate itself was only completely done away with by ANH, so they probably would’ve also protected their own to some degree. Even the Roman Emperors weren’t always able to kill on a whim.

[@aaronwishard7093]

The dumb thing is that Lucas was flat out a major writer for many of the LucasArts projects, such as the video games that come to mind first, yet he somehow didn't consider those stories canon baffles me to this day. To me that would be declaring Empire Strikes Back as not canon in Lucas' eyes because he said so

[@justinevert1504]

I consider EU/Legends to be canon. It is compatible with the Star Wars movies Lucas made, unlike the “lore” from Disney. So it makes sense to still regard Legends as canon no matter what Disney says.

[@dony2852]

For me, Star Wars ended after Disney declared the EU non-canon. The new Marvel books don't have the same draw because it feels like anything can be tossed out of canon with just a change in a couple of executives, including the sequel trilogy.

[@ridensroom6957]

I totally get people who like legacy of the force, fate of the jedi and legacy comics but to me, the EU ended at the unifying force where the galaxy finally knew peace after the YZV were beaten.

[@bigblue207]

@@TaurusInvicta how so

[@bigblue207]

@@TaurusInvicta oh I’ve heard those before. Honestly they’re not that big a deal, no bigger than a lot of the stuff George himself contradicted or weakly retconned in the movies. Like that general grievous thing, I agree it’s supposed to be their first meeting but you can hand wave it away as grandstanding by grievous. Because as a counterpoint they took care to not have grievous or Anakin really get to see each other upright when they did that prisoner exchange on Naboo in order for Anakin to still have that line about grievous being shorter than he expected. Still not their first meeting but I think that shows some attention to detail that you can forgive the other minor lines not working as well, especially with only two instances and seeing how bad continuity is treated now. At least the clone wars show didn’t undo Vader’s redemption and death. And the last point is more of a personal take or opinion. I never minded young Anakin but Darth Vader always seemed like a devout and knowledgeable student of the force whereas Jedi Anakin always seemed more like a varsity player, just naturally gifted without much consideration for studying. We never really got to see his training in depth. Me personally, I like to head canon both clone wars projects as canon even though they contradict a bit more strongly with each other than either does with the movies. The one thing I hate is the stupid inhibitor chips. But even the siege of mandalore and finale of 2003 kind of hold hands very nicely though I don’t think that’s intentional. And as much as people praise clone wars season 7 it’s like a bad joke because Disney is the reason the show got canceled in the first place and they had seasons 7 and 8 fully animated I believe and were writing season 9 or something like that. It’s a pure consolation prize when we were supposed to see the dark disciple stuff, the things on kashyyyk and utapau, the original cad vs boba, etc.

[@tvvistedv3nom26]

@@TaurusInvictaIt’s really not. Lucas himself saw the EU as an alternate universe to his own which is Eps 1-6 and TCW. The EU is it’s own canon but not part of Lucas’s canon and the same can be said for Disney since Lucas didn’t create it.

[@MurdocIsASaint]

Star Wars misses out on the Warhammer 40K logical out for retconning by saying “lol the warp is chaos” and “unreliable narrator!” Having the history of an event being told from Palpatine’s journal or something would help so much, you can always change the story later and put it down to Sith unreliability

[@joshuamueller3206]

R2 is supposed to be the one relaying what Lucas did, explaining why he is ever-present in the story.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Let's not take *too* much advice from warhammer lore now. They have their own issues.

[@MurdocIsASaint]

@@joshuamueller3206 Having a machine relate the story was always such an odd idea, specially because he’s not everywhere. So every scene he isn’t in must be hearsay filtered through a machines logical mind.

[@MurdocIsASaint]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Any massive lore does, I just think Star Wars relies too much on the omnipotent observer.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

It's inertia. Star Wars prized itself on being one continuous universe for 40 years with no reboots in sight. They still do things that way despite the fact they rebooted the universe. (Or at least the book and comic department does, filmmakers don't seem to care at all even when Lucas was in charge)

[@Bucketus.Lord.of.Buckets]

Past Thor: "Story group may be more discerning about what they let into the canon" Reality: "Disney starcruiser hotel is now canon, and tons of important stuff in the lore happened there. This thing will definitely last and make us billons"

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

Ok, this is funny

[@rodrigodelavega7252]

I didn't read much of the old EU back then, it seemed unfocused and pretty messy from my perspective. Now, given how awful the new canon is, I catch up with the old books and a lot of them are actually great.

[@joshuamueller3206]

Legends: Dumpster Fire. Canon: Flaming Garbage Truck still driving towards the landfill.

[@LOTRFAN33]

Most of the EU (that I read, which was a lot and only post ROTJ) was actually pretty good. The few that I read that were garbage are still better than anything Disney with the exception of Rogue One. Not sure why so many think like you as most seemed well connected and consistent.

[@priestesslucy]

​@@joshuamueller3206 Legends isn't a dumpster fire, it's a realm of fantasy and adventure. Seriously, I'd rather spend 10 hours listening to a Legends audio book than waste 3 hours watching one of Disney's garbage movies.

[@priestesslucy]

​@@LOTRFAN33 Can you report the bad EU books you read? I'm curious if we disagree or if it's just not a book I've experienced.

[@achaudhari101]

@@priestesslucy Not very bright of you.

[@gameragodzilla]

Given Disney didn’t bother planning out the Sequel Trilogy, the flagship of the whole franchise, they’re definitely not going to bother planning out the rest of their canon very well. I find it notable that Disney made more of a mess in their own timeline in less than 10 years than the old Expanded Universe did in 40. But in some ways, I suppose the decanonization of Legends was a blessing in disguise, since I can safely ignore Disney canon and not worry about my favorite characters there being screwed up. Kyle Katarn will remain awesome since he was split up into 3 different characters in DisCanon: Finn got the ex-Stormtrooper, Cassian got the Rebel agent who stole the Death Star plans, and Kanan Jarrus got the Jedi, none of which are as interesting as Kyle himself but none are also called Kyle so I can still enjoy his stories.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

Four characters! You forgot Cal Kestis. I expect to see EVEN more Kyle Katarn copycats. I thought they wanted creative freedom 😅 I just think it's sad, if they want Kyle Katarn why not pay the author and adapt the character faithfully instead of splitting him up into pieces.

[@chasehedges6775]

George Lucas knew what he was doing. I still admire Revenge Of The Sith and how I can watch it as a standalone movie.

[@RedAnimal100]

The fact that it can standalone shows how impactful and good Rots was. Totally agree

[@chasehedges6775]

@@RedAnimal100 👍👍👍💯. One of the best films of 2005.

[@dazdavis7896]

@@chasehedges6775 THE best film of 2005***

[@chasehedges6775]

@@dazdavis7896 👍👍👍

[@njux1871]

@@dazdavis7896 tbf best films of 2005 is prolly Lady Vengeance imho, but Revenge of the Sith is amazing. Although it's far from being perfect. I feel like all the prequel films would have benefitted so much from an extra hour of screen time

[@otakubullfrog1665]

When Disney took over, I think their plan was that Star Wars would remain primarily a film franchise that would tell no more than one new story feature-length story (or part of a story) per year and that it would mainly keep moving forward in time. I don't think they foresaw that they'd be creating mostly shows with the run-time of several films per season and that they'd be jumping back and in between so often, which happens to be exactly where so many old and new EU writers love to operate. It would have been easier to avoid stepping on the new EU writers all the time if their original plan had worked out, although saying that everything new would stay consistent forever might still have been too much to promise.

[@thomp9054]

When I first got into the EU books( it was the fate of the Jedi series) the main three actors(Hamill, Fisher, Ford) we're all the perfect age. It was so fun and easy to visualize with the books

[@onliwankannoli]

I bought a collection of old Star Wars comics from the late 70s and early 80s. I love them! Considering some were written even before ESB, sometimes they depart from canon immensely. It is like Luke, Leia, and Han have an adventure a day, and some of the stories are lame, but a lot of them are super interesting. Despite them not being canon, or maybe because of it, they’re really fun to read, how some people imagined the Star Wars universe when all they had to work with was “Star Wars” (don’t call it A New Hope 😆).

[@RoboticPope]

Alan Moore's 'Tilotny throws a shape' is a good example of that. A completely weird little star wars comic. Cool audio version here kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnzbnWOgZ9p2gas

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

That seems like a type of stuff Pablo Hidalgo likes so he doesn't do actual quality control because he likes controversial EU stuff and not beloved and acclaimed parts. No wonder story group sucks at their job tbh.

[@onliwankannoli]

@@RoboticPope Wow, that was trippy!

[@Takeshi357]

I've had those big hardcover omnibuses (omnibi?) for a few years now and I _still_ haven't read them - but I'm still looking _forward_ to actually doing so, _because_ of all that weird stuff the writers had to pull out of their hats because they had so little to draw from! And considering this was still Marvel of the late 70's, I think that silver age comic book style might work really well for something like Star Wars, which is deliberately old fashioned.

[@PixelKatana]

I'm willing to wager "Legends" literary media still generates more revenue than the current canon.

[@lordcarnorjax8599]

Me too. If the EU material wasn't selling well I don't think they'd keep it in print. I go to Amazon's best sellers list and drill down to the Sci Fi - Space Opera category. In the top 100 best sellers there's 13 Star Wars books. 7 are EU books & 6 are new canon books, 4 of the canon books are new Thrawn books. The top 4 are all EU books (original Thrawn trilogy & Dart Plagueis) and 8 out of all the books are Zahn books. Aftermath Life Debt (60) & Master & Apprentice (93) are the only books from other authors in canon to appear. There's no High Republic books at all.

[@karethrihker1829]

I didn’t realize that

[@KenBen0bi]

The problems being many, to me the three glaring things with the new canon: - the new comics series approach the time between the OT no differently than the classic Marvel one. So, knowing this, one can still read the comics if the approach is loose and the expectation is to just be entertained without needing a strict adherence to a consistent timeline. (Remember, Luke randomly had a blue lightsaber in the comics after ESB). Also, Dark Horse also ran into this problem in the early 00’s when they tried to have an ongoing mainline title when their original series and miniseries that had contained stories were the better sellers. - Like you said, because we know the end points of a lot of characters, anything to fill up the timeline with adventures have zero weight and thus in a way become skippable. So the struggle is do they bank in the OT characters to make a profit, or gamble completely and focus only on new things. - Which leads to the cancelling of the EU. Love it or hate it, at first it seemed like a smart move because they wanted the freedom to create a cohesive timeline with the Story Group. Since it seems the SG is really just there to placate us veteran fans, it’s almost as if the live-action media matters the most, so consistency with the canon is selective now. Had they chosen to have Episode VII be 45-50 years after ANH, I feel they would have been able to do even more including keep the EU for it to be vaguely mentioned or included as needed, if that makes sense.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

They couldn't have done that without problems with Rey and Kylo's ages.

[@KenBen0bi]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о Rey would be easier than Kylo, Kylo would have to be his own lineage instead of a Solo. Plus, it would leave room for Jaina

[@4891MR]

The EU was never perfect, but it had a level of consistency head and shoulders above any other multimedia IP. So the answer to whether Star Wars fans can enjoy contemporary secondary media depends on whether they lower their standards. If there is a reasonable explanation for the publisher having lowered their standards (Disney breaking up the previous system, in other words) it was probably to spare fans of other existing IPs (and creators with experience from those other IPs even moreso) the need to raise their own standards when participating in Star Wars. The recent success of a smaller shared universe within the bubble of the MCU has already been forced to adopt a multiverse, showing that to have been a temporary situation, not unlike the DC comics universe was for a few years after the original Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[@strikeflyer]

Stuff like this is why I stopped paying attention to Canon and why I more or less continue making EU fanfics and theories at what happened to certain characters like Fordo, Sev, Inyri Forge or even extremely obscure characters. There's no stakes in the canon books because we know where the roads lead to, and they use the same exact characters from the movies

[@thorshammer7883]

Good choice to set yourself apart seperate from lawless faithless Disney who continue to defile Star Wars. I admire your practice of staying true to Star Wars EU continuality in your heart and continuing to defy Disney's defilements by refusing to compromise and making your own EU based fanfics.

[@sophroneo6960]

A question I have related to the sequel trilogy... Why did Luke go to the planet Rey found him at? If memory serves me correctly, in Ep.7, Han said Luke went missing to find some secret. In Ep.8, Luke said he went there to die. In Ep.9, there was no explanation. Though Lando said he and Luke were seeking a dagger, and Luke left him to watch over the ship they found. Which would make no sense if either reason in the previous episodes' reasoning stood.

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

You just used one of several ways to argue why the sequels are not a trilogy. At best they are a two-parter with a one-shot added. Nothing really fits together.

[@jeffreycarman2185]

The expanded universe was awesome when I was a kid back in the 1990’s because there wasn’t much chance that we would ever have any movies. It helped that the books and comics were pretty awesome.

[@darthecclipse1073]

The EU was even trying to keep the Canon in order towards the end. They had been trying to retcon or just give simple explanations for contradictions from older books as well. Though TCW still messed some things up for the books 😅

[@emberfist8347]

Blame the writers for failing to be on the same page with George.

[@darthecclipse1073]

@emberfist8347 ya but it's not fully their fault. George had little to no interest in the books lol and the most input I've ever heard he had was saying the books can't do certain things.

[@chasehedges6775]

At this point, I just stick to my personal canon: The OT, Revenge Of The Sith, Andor, Rogue One, and Mandalorian S1 and S2. And I also consider the EU/Legends continuity as well to be canon. Long live the Lucas Era. Down with Disney.

[@joshuakolton9955]

That’s exactly what I do. I consider the Kenobi show as a “what if” story.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@joshuakolton9955 I consider a “That was fever dream” story

[@jayhartRIC]

Mine is basically the same but I include all the prequels

[@chasehedges6775]

@@jayhartRIC Awesome choice

[@Milothemighty10]

@@chasehedges6775 same but with the prequels, clone wars,both jedi fallen order/survivor and depending on how it ends with season 3 the bad batch. Because despite its faults there were episodes I did thoroughly enjoy…

[@derworfnet]

I still occasionally read Canon-books, as there are a couple of good ones. But I’m not a completist anymore, to the extent I used to be ten years ago. And, overall, I’m still much more drawn towards the EU. Infact, I started rereading my entire EU-collection a while ago and having a great time rediscovering these stories. Currently enjoying the „Dark Lord“-Novel (the direct Sequel to ROTS). Good stuff.

[@njux1871]

I'm reading through EU and Canon chronologically and just read them as "not entirely accurate" stories. This way I'm not as exhausted from Ahsoka appearing in every thing Filoni touches and from Sith Inquisitors being basically villain of the week. Instead I actually kinda enjoy Disney content a bit more than before, although EU still is best to me. Luceno just did some great things. Can't watch Ep I without reading Luceno anymore.

[@robmarconi6758]

@derworfnet what are some good Canon books would you recommend?

[@cjraymond8827]

I was very disappointed when the EU was discarded, however, your point about the main characters is something I used to think when I read all those books (and some comics). I used to think, "how the heck can these people have so many adventures and not just quit?" Luke, Han, Leia and Chewbacca never get a rest! It's always Star Wars all the time for them.

[@vetarlittorf1807]

Hey, Thor. I have been wondering. What if the prequels had been made in 1987, 1990 and 1993 as originally planned? Personally, I think Johnny Depp would be cast as Anakin because at the time he was the right age and had that "Rebel Without a Cause" vibe. I also think that both sides of the clone wars would use clones because of the limited computer technology. Lastly, while I think Naboo, Coruscant, Tatooine, Geonosis and Mustafar would be *relatively* the same with a few tweaks, I think the rest of the planets we saw would be considerably different. But what do you think?

[@chasehedges6775]

What if the ST had been made in 1987 - 1993? Anyone have any thoughts?

[@rigby_rich3650]

I really could care less about canon, I like some eu books, I like some Disney stuff. I simply want good stories and create my own head canon.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@rigby_rich3650 Create my own head canon YES

[@rigby_rich3650]

Sorry my comment was meant to be it’s own thing, not under yours😂

[@njux1871]

​@@chasehedges6775 I mean it kinda was with the Thrawn trilogy. Although I suspect Lucas wouldn't have had such an interesting adversary and would have vent for a new Sith danger in the spirit of Jedi Academy

[@johnpoulton9446]

I know this will sound negative or bitter but just make your own cannon. Pick and choose what like and keep that as your cannon. LF has shown they aren’t capable of keeping a cannon so we could do just as well as them.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

That's what some OneCanon people do who combine Legends and canon into one large cohesive timeline. Of course, dates of everything have to shift around so it's not compatible with either.

[@ivymackey9602]

Fanfiction people do it all the time!

[@jeffreyroedel9804]

Looking at the Dark Force Rising book cover I have to wonder if the concept artists for the Last Jedi took that aesthetic wholesale for the planet Crait. It's exactly the same, just add salt! lol

[@PrincessFionaYT]

When I was little I found three books with my dad’s collection. These were three prequel novels each to one of the prequel movies. I don’t know remember who wrote them or their titles and I think they’ve been out of print for a long time. As they’re old even for EU stuff. I’m not gonna go so far as to say each book fixed its corresponding prequel movie, but it did add an amazing amount of detail and filled in the blanks for much of what should’ve been included in each prequel film. They were also much more interesting than the prequel movies themselves. Each book ended almost minutes before the story and the prequel movies began so these were very direct tie ins. I found that they did increase my enjoyment of watching each prequel movie. I remember the first one really focused on Palpatine‘s machinations in the Senate and all of his political maneuvering and even setting up enemies and gathering allies. It was surprisingly interesting, like some of the better parts of Andor. It’s been a long time and I wish I could remember the titles but it occurred to me this is an excellent example of how books can be incorporated into canon without messing anything up and actually adding value to the movies without being necessary. If Lucasfilm had any brains they would be quoting authors to do these kinds of things. And don’t even make me laugh about the ‘story group’. That’s the most misnamed organization I’ve ever heard. A bunch of defeersity hires that clearly didn’t know anything about Star Wars. Their actual title is the Kathleen Kennedy propaganda group.

[@andreluiznogueira361]

Besides movies and series (except sequels), i consider most of comics that came before 2020. Aaron and Gillen run on the main star wars comic is amazing to me (Smuggler Moon and the shu thorun trilogy is great). For the canon books i've only read four and the only one i really enjoyed was lords of the sith.

[@percymacdonald6657]

How much should the books and comics matter? Put it this way, you don't need to watch Andor to understand Rogue one but it sure enriches the experience.

[@farmerboy2194]

I've only been reading comics for around the last two years. With the more recent books they go more crazy just to extend the series. The first run of Vader was amazing as it was more about Vader and what's going in his head than him doing fetch quests and then finding out some more dumb stuff. I don't mind Aphra in the first season but what I have heard in the second just like above it's gone so silly just to fill pages. Saying that the dark horse stuff I've read are quiet good, dark times, empire/rebellion where really good reads and made sense to the movies. Anyways that's my two cents love you to rate all of the current stuff and your actual thoughts

[@Evergreenoutsider10]

I remember when Marvel tried to do tie in comics to the movies. I never read them, but I thought “this is a bad idea.” Because comics take time to set up arcs, and movie scripts change so many times that doing simultaneous runs would quickly crash and burn. And oh look, that’s what happened here and there.

[@Grieftain]

As a person who loved old cannon and read a lot of it and now I'm reading just a bit of new cannon and comics from it I would love to see the video about most absurd things in new cannon :D About High Republic - I kinda liked them? I mean they are not special, but as a entertainment they are decent.

[@joshuakolton9955]

Keep your own head canons. Also stop giving Disney money and watch/listen to a review of a show/movie/book by your favorite Star Wars KZbinrs.

[@achaudhari101]

No because this sounds like you being petty in a crackhead way.

[@lucasnorthrup7175]

I liked Legends much more. Legends had better stories in their games, shows and comics. While they did not really affect the series George Lucas made, they did add a lot to the characters in the Original and Prequel trilogies, and made them go in directions to help them grow their development as characters. After how bad the sequels went, I honestly don’t consider Disney’s Star Wars canon to George Lucas’ vision. I don’t even watch the Mandolorian, or any of the other shows, and I’m not going to see Asokha, despite how loyal Dave Faloni is, there’s really no direction in this franchise, so I’m sticking with Legends.

[@achaudhari101]

Or you’re biased for an EU zealot and want to make excuses to hate everything in this version of Canon.

[@priestesslucy]

​@@achaudhari101 You don't have to make excuses if you genuinely hate something. I know it's petty, but I even hate the silly force connected Khyber crystals from Disney Canon

[@lucasnorthrup7175]

Alex Chaudhari Why are you being such a prick? I’m not biased, I’m not biased at all. It’s just Disney has just Star Wars in a direction that isn’t working. I think you’re the one who’s biased and just wants to pick a fight and bully people who don’t like Disney’s version. You’re not hurting me, you’re just hurting yourself.

[@achaudhari101]

@@priestesslucy Not when there is actual good stuff in the new Canon. I think the bleeding crystal thing makes more sense than a separate crystal for the Sith.

[@lukescrew1981]

​@@achaudhari101 96% of Disney canon sucks ass

[@hakimzane]

I would love to see a video on all of the new stuff that they put in the comics that just doesn't fit in the on-screen canon. I stopped reading the books and comics once I noticed they kept retconning things

[@bengheinrich7500]

In the Expanded Universe their was some things that was terrible like Sun Crusher and Palpatine coming back to life which ruined Anakins sacrifice both in the EU and Disney Canon. However I think Disney should have adapted much of the EU like the Thrawn Trilogy into animated films and the New Jedi Order and Yuuzan Vang onto screen into TV shows and kept the main charecters, like Mara Jade, Jason, Jaina and Anakin Solo and Ben Skywalker. Don't adopt everything line to line in legends but make it compatible and bring Ahsoka in the mix. I don't think they should totally canonize legends but should adopt some characters and plot points a middle ground if you will between retconning and adapting to make it compatible for TV and movies.

[@isaac3702]

Well, in defense of Palpatine returning, that was before the prophecy of the Chosen One was even thought up, so you can't blame that one quite as much

[@Alexzander1989]

To be fair, they made Dark Empire BEFORE the prequels and the prophesy were a thing, so we can cut them some slack on that one. 🤷 As for the Sun Crusher... Yeah I got nothing for that one, that was the dumbest and most overpowered vehicle in Legends 😅. It was so ridiculous and stupid, it came back around to being downright hilarious But hey, I'll take the galaxy's most overpowered ice cream cone over yet another giant ball of death that blows up some planets no one cared about 😅

[@isaac3702]

@@Alexzander1989 agreed. Of we wanted a small retcon, we could just have the spirit of Anakin return to finish off Palpatine instead of the ending it had originally

[@priestesslucy]

​@@isaac3702 I really, really enjoyed the ending of Dark Empire and the old Jedi's heroic sacrifice. It was actually really interesting when you think about how that old dude shared some similarities with Vader due to the circumstances of his living situation. But, seeing that we know Anakin is out there as a Force Ghost, it could be interesting if he did something in that climax as well.

[@kennyholmes5196]

Palpatine coming back to life happened anyways. So there's that.

[@azairman]

I just started reading the EU books so I would be interested in the top 10 crazy things video idea

[@wray2real]

My canon is EU/Legends novels. The movies only counted as the trump card canon when George Lucas was in charge. Disney just bought the franchise. Lucas created and understood the story, so he could turn it any way he wanted. No serious fan can tell me that they didn't consider the EU as canon before Disney. I mean Jecen,Jaina, Thrawn,Coruscant, Mara Jade, and a lot more came from it. Nobody can tell me that movie adaptations of that timeline isn't what they wanted Disney to do. Or at least a jumping off from point from the last novel. It's fact that everyone was stunned and dismayed to find out Luke was missing, there was no Jedi Order and Leia and Han had broken up in The Force Awakens.

[@riildiilcomments891]

To be honest, I only got two Canon stories, BUT only after checking that they could'nt conflict with the EU. First: Darth Maul Son of Dathomir. Because it is labeled as both Canon and Legends. Second: The final season of the Clone Wars TV show. Because those episodes are based on scripts and ideas that were supposed to be made Before Disney bought Lucasfilm. Also to mention; I think some of the Thrawn books are the only other stories I've considered about getting. Because one: I've checked to see that they don't conflict with Legends continuity. And second: Thrawn is one of the greatest characters in Star Wars and I respect him.

[@Manrikitabako1]

I had read some of the Disney canon, but once they retconned the Kanan Order 66 scene, I stopped reading the "canon" comics and books.

[@drnobody418]

At this point in time of the fandom, not taking canon seriously is a better ride. If you are comic person, plenty of the Disney/Marvel comics have been pretty entertaining, if you ask me. It's a mix bag but, you got variety.

[@bryona5271]

I used to read them every Wednesday. I realized I didn’t care if they tied in perfectly with every story. Just give me something fun and unexpected to read and look at. Instead the comics are all focused on “the message.” So I quit reading the new ones and I’m perfectly happy with my old Omnibus comics

[@azlanaddleman2448]

I honestly, have stopped reading the current Canon stuff. I stopped about two years ago. I used to collect it all in on everything once they launch the High Republic that’s really when I stopped buying the comics and all the books and such the legends novels and comics. However, I’ve been buying up and reading and Lord Almighty. It is phenomenal.

[@mhay9960]

I think we need to enjoy them for what they are. Enjoy them because they present a meaningful story. People loved new hope when it came out without knowing its connection to a larger universe. People liked it as a stand-alone film cause it was just plain good. It would be nice if these books connected but I still find joy in them. That’s why legends books are still popular like plaguies. Enjoy it because it’s good not because of its place in a massive universe

[@460Kidneys]

Path of the Open Hand is a freakin Monk subclass in D&D. Just "way" instead of "path".

[@The_Lucent_Archangel]

There are several things that annoyed me when they got cherry picked from or axed entirely. By far the worst offense has to be them ditching Shadows of the Empire when that was literally a Lucas-aligned multimedia tie-in set between TESB and ROTJ. And what did they slash that for, some wonky Vader subplots and nonsense from Solo or the laughable "High Republic" era references told solely in comics? Pretty awful replacement. Anyone who had any level of enthusiasm or positivity toward the "Story Group" was lying to themselves. Total jokes of "lore masters" like Hidalgo and the rest have panned out exactly as any reasonable person would have expected them to.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

Well, Leland Chee is a real lore master, why he can't do anything about this? Pablo just sucks as a person, but he seems to know enough lore to do his job, yet he doesn't. Even some basic lore like Jedi homeworld or how hyperspace worked was bangled in the sequels.

[@marki1498]

I agree with the overall sentiment and i definitely dont get into the comics for a lot of the reasons you laid out, but i think you are underselling the new canon books a bit. Master & Apprentice, Bloodlines, Dark Disciple, Lost Stars all add so much to legacy characters/time periods, i wouldnt want to discourage people from checking these out:)

[@paolopesare3566]

I have a difficult relationship with the Star Wars comics. My favorite one in Canon was the one with Kanan Jarrus' backstory. The ones set during the original trilogy are really weird. Luke dueling against a "stormtrooper with a lightsaber" feels really dumb imo. And that mon calamari version of Grievous? It's cursed 😂. In my opinion the best Star Wars comics series is the Legends "Star Wars Republic"

[@paulemge9156]

They should never have discontinued the EU, they should have stated that the EU is considered Legend, but is canon until it is superseded by film or series, that is basically how Lucas dealt with it ( I don't think George knew much about the EU actually and didn't give it much thought at all) and not have claimed everything will be canon. And Disney should slap a 'Legends' banner on the sequel trilogy too. Disney could have adapted Heir to the Empire as their sequel, it would have had to modified quite a bit, since the principles would be a lot older. Or they could have got buy in to from Mark ,Carrie and Harrison to recast the roles, sure it would have caused some issue with fans, but I doubt if the story was good, it would not have been as divisive.

[@peterkrochmalni673]

The Star Wars Expanded Universe = Canon Disney Wars = Noncanon “Disney Star Wars is not my Star Wars.” - George Lucas

[@mazkeraid4039]

Legends is more of an archived name for Expanded Universe, and speaking of which, Disney derived so much of its source material which makes me question their decision regarding the brand as a whole. While I cannot speak much of Expanded Universe from early ‘70s to early 2010’s, all I could see that they have massive variety of cast of characters and settings and others that can be either played up well or not, but acceptable. I hope Paramount or Universal would buy out Lucasfilm and bring George Lucas back on the surface.

[@2centswanted113]

Thor could you give your short opinions in one of these lightning vids about what new star wars media you like or didn't? The books and comics and what not. What do you recommend. I.e. I tried the audio book of Midnight Horizon and it was hard to listen to

[@rigby_rich3650]

I really could care less about canon, I like some eu books, I like some Disney stuff. I simply want good stories and create my own head canon.

[@isaiahjackson25]

Thor I’m just now getting into legends since I read all the canon stuff but oh my god the legends books after return of the Jedi are epic and consistent! New Jedi order is definitely a fav maybe someday we can get an animated version of Luke and young Ben

[@isaiahjackson25]

Some of the canon stuff is great like Luke’s yellow lightsaber suck it up Thor and crimson dawn was cool even though it’s ending up a weak

[@SengCenter]

Hey Thor: Great analysis, per usual. Given your comments in this video about how the books and comics are treated in the films/shows, and particularly regarding Thrawn - do you anticipate Timothy Zahn's reported involvement in the Ahsoka show might help Filoni keep intact those parts of Thrawn's canon backstory - unlike how he treated Ahsoka in "Tales of the Jedi"? Or the fact that Filoni did not create Thrawn like he created Ahsoka, and therefore likely doesn't view Thrawn in quite the same way?

[@musiciansnight]

I seem to recall in the ‘90’s that George Lucas just told the EU writers not to contradict each other.

[@JoRoq1]

He also had one person (I don’t recall her name at the moment) who oversaw the approval/editing process and managed to mostly keep things consistent between concurrent projects. She alone did an infinitely better job than KK’s so-called “Story Group”. There was also a set of defined rules to go by, not just “don’t contradict”. So the authors had basic guidance at the start of their projects for what they could and couldn’t do.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

​@@JoRoq1 what were those rules?

[@JoRoq1]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I don’t know the whole list, but it included things like not killing main or movie-featured characters (until Lucas personally ordered Chewie’s death in the New Jedi Order series), descriptions of how certain things worked, etc.

[@lordcarnorjax8599]

@@JoRoq1 Sue Rostoni & Howard Hoffman were the main two people that kept the EU straight and were the go betweens from George to the authors. Most of the time the authors would submit lists of ideas or things they'd like to do. Those check lists would go to George who'd tick yes or no and sometimes provide feedback via notes. For example one of the early EU authors got a note back from George that for Jedi philosophy he should look towards Buddhism. The other thing Sue Rostoni actively worked to fix contradictions, Stackpole has spoken about how he was asked to fix a number of contradictions in the lore in his books. These days there's lore or canon clashes and the story group just goes "oh well it's all ancient history" & "as long as the main events remain true, how we get there is up to the individual storyteller".

[@RaikenXion]

Thor you favor Dave Filoni so doesn't it annoy you what he appears to be doing using the beloved Timothy Zahn "Thrawn Trilogy", rehashing it, cherry-picking bits and some characters he likes and ditching the others or swapping them out. If it were me, right after TROS had came out, I would have announced that there's gonna be a full-on, live-action, Faithful *Adaptation* of the EU Thrawn Trilogy, with one movie focusing on covering the first book, and this would be classed as a Legends Anthology Film. This I think would get alot of fans back onboard. As for the comics, I never read any of the "Disney Star Wars" comics. Right from the moment of them releasing the - Road to the Force Awakens Aftermath Novels, I just didn't bother because I had this feeling in the back of my head those stories would not reveal anything significant, regarding Luke Skywalker his jedi order and the rest of the Legacy Characters. I'm glad I never bothered with any of the books and comics, not the Ahsoka, Kanan, Vader or Luke adventures comics. They're simply not worth my time or money when there is always the risk of Lucasfilm Story Group allowing any director to just come in and retcon those comics. Just admit it, Lucasfilm is a complete mess and it's been a mess since George sold it. The only way things can ever get better for this franchise is for the big white elephant in the room to step down or retire, and then for her story group to be dissolved, get rid of baby face Pablo also if you can, and just have a complete regime change at Lucasfilm.

[@dominicseibert3048]

"Fleshing out" the EU in animation and running the sequel trilogy through Kesh could've made Disney at least $10 billion and you'll never be able to convince me otherwise.

[@XLA-zg1nn]

What a great question - When they announced that they were not following the EU and were pretty much throwing it away, was the 1st UH OH this is bad, been going down ever since

[@JimUK]

As a fan I think it's important to decide for yourself what is canon and what isn't, don't just blindly accept what Disney tell you, personally I treat everything Lucas was involved in as canon which includes the EU that he signed off on, Disney's output I treat as fanfiction, some of it good, most of it terrible.

[@socialaccount0000]

Hey Thor, since the High Republic era isnt really interesting, what time period would you say is the most interesting to write in, or what time period would you like to see Disney write in? Personally, I always found the time of Darth Tennebrous to be interesting in Legends, its when the Sith truly started to make their move, albeit still in the shadows. We also see the beginning of research into Midichlorians and how Plageius would eventually take this research and (with help of Palpatine) create Anakin by mistake. Another interesting era is the ancient Sith era. I always found the pre-old republic days, with the Rottokhan (however thats spelt), proto-sabers, sith empire, etc to be fascinating. I always liked the whole sith cultist vibe that planets like Korriban have since its such a drastic contrasr from the modern sith of Plageius and Palpatine who focused more on science and less on sorcery

[@achaudhari101]

Subjective on that first sentence.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

The writing makes something interesting or not. If Disney writers wrote about things you talk about they'll make them boring and uninteresting. Just look at how interesting Tython looks in the comics compared to the planet in Mando Season 2 where it's just a field filmed in California.

[@Supherodude]

The reason why Disney is fine with disregarding the Star Wars comics when they make their movies and shows is because the majority of general audiences don’t read Star Wars comics. I know a lot Star Wars fans were upset that the Legends comics weren’t part of the canon but people need to keep in mind that no major Hollywood studio makes movies exclusively for the die hard fans of a series. This is also applicable to the MCU which has a lot of fans who aren’t comic book readers.

[@thealexgundam5006]

Well imo it's stupid desicion on their part as could do tv shows similar to how anime does with manga. Which in turn sells both show and manga,/ merch. But hey that's their choice, it also makes it easy for people not wanting waste money on star wars boo5as their irrelevant overall to the shows/ films. Maybe exclude detailed dictionaries about vehicles and planets. But that's it.

[@professorstewart6379]

Doing away with the expanded universe was a massive mistake, imo. I read all those books and comics because they mattered. Now it feels like they definitely don't.

[@johantolli372]

Every single issue with Disney Star Wars always boils down to one simple thing, Disney's own arrogance. They have always worked from the base assumption that Star Wars fans are easy marks, suckers basically. That Star Wars fan will gladly pay for anything, now matter the low quality and high prices. Why did Disney decannonize the EU? Well because they thought they could pump out their own simple garbage that could easily replace it with very little effort needed. Why did they make a trilogy without planning anything out, Well because Star Wars fans will hoot and holler at anything so they could just whip something together with very little effort and fans would just eat it up. Disney can never look past how much money George Lucas made on merchandising with the first two trilogies and dont understand that the only reason people bought the merch was because at its core, George Lucas told a compelling and meaningful story that people loved and by extention made them want the surrounding products. Disney has never had the story as a priority in ANY of their Star Wars works. They dont respect the base story, so its no wonder they never respect the side stories. I see no point in reading the comics or books and expect continuity.

[@achaudhari101]

Didn’t you pan him over the Prequels years ago? Don’t try to act like fans back then weren’t hard asses when I had to hear every Karen back then complain how Lucas “ruined” Star Wars with the Prequels. Both sides are guilty of trying to make anything SW a no win scenario.

[@thefarlander2050]

I feel the reason why some stories in the High Republic may be boring to some people is the fact that it was a time when there was peace in the galaxy. Only when Episode 1 came did that peace get shaken up with the return of the Sith. Prior to that, the Jedi Order and the Republic were more or less chilling, solving small issues from time to time in my opinion. Sure, fights had to have happened before this time, but nothing on the level of a full on war, or else what Obi Wan said to Luke in A New Hope, that the Jedi knights kept the galaxy in peace for over a 1000 generations, wouldn't really be true since that peace got disrupted pretty heavily. Of course, I never read the High Republic stories, so I can't be a great judge for it, but that's just my take. Keep up the great content as usual!!!

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

That's pretty much thrown out of the window. It feels more like inspired by NJO and Yuuzhan Vong War with the amount of deaths and tragedy happening. It only pretends they're in golden age because they have weird slogans and gold robes.

[@drumjedi5301]

I've been a fan of the EU since reading the original Thrawn Trilogy, as it was released, back in the 90s as a kid. Sometime in my 20s, after reading all the EU up until just before the NJO series began, I lost interest and stopped. After Disney released the ST (which were disappointing to me), I tried reading some of the new canon book releases... And they pale in comparison. I couldn't even finish the Aftermath series and have yet to finish the Thrawn: Ascendency trilogy (though I admit to rather enjoying the first two). I did enjoy Heir to the Jedi, and I hear that some other canon books are decent... However, being disappointed with the new canon caused me to pick up where I left off in the old EU, and I'm now halfway through the NJO series. This is far superior to anything canon I've read, even the ones I enjoyed to a degree. The EU had flaws (Crystal Star, anyone?), and discrepancies bred from literally building a canon from scratch with limited source material and changes made by Lucas with the Prequels, but those can be easily overlooked in consideration for the overall wonder that is the EU. Disney is a farce...

[@jonathanryan9946]

Lets be honest here, Legends had some terrible storylines & retconning it gave them the opportunity to cut out the bad. Instead they copied the worst of the EU & somehow made it worse. Then to top that off, they ignored all the best storylines so far (we'll see how Ahsoka redoes Heir to the Empire, but i fear it will just replace the OT cast with Filoni's pet characters) Sadly until we get new leadership running Lucasfilm and possibly Disney too. Star Wars Canon is basically a doomed endeavor, as you can only put lipstick on a pig but at the end of the day it is still a pig. The Sequels basically doom any fixes they could ever make. They're essentially a tumor that has to be cut out. Now, while I see the CWMMP as superior to TCW, I'm willing to accept TCW in a hypothetical reboot if it gives me back Timothy Zahn's books and New Jedi Order as the foundation for a post RotJ new Canon (but lets dump Dark Empire and LotF as Canon basically already did these stories), plus The Old Republic era back.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

They copied the worst stuff because they have no idea what fans like in EU. It just seems like Abrams randomly picked Dark Empire and decided to adapt it because it's the first thing he saw on a shelf in some Lucasfilm archive. Even Filoni, who seems to think he's an EU fan, proved multiple times he has no idea why some of the stuff is popular in the first place. He just heard Thrawn is cool from some EU circles and thinks associating with it will make him cool. It's like fake nerds.

[@LOTRFAN33]

EU post ROTJ had some great storylines. Had some average too but most were good to great imo. Had some stinkers that read like Shakespeare compared to the Disney storylines.

[@jonathanryan9946]

@@LOTRFAN33 oh, I fully agree that the EU had some great storylines. Heck a few were borderline groundbreaking and on par with ESB and RotS. I was merely focusing my comments on the opportunity they had at cutting out things like Dark Empire, Callista Ming trilogy, and rework the Jedi Academy trilogy to be less about Kyp and the Suncrusher and more about Luke struggling to get Mara Jade to help him run his Academy. Probably cut out other dumb things like trying to hook Jaina up with Kyp (he was literally twice her age).

[@jonathanryan9946]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I'm pretty convinced a few people on the Storygroup, like Pablo Hildgo, absolutely loves the more controversial stories from the EU and hated the beloved characters and stories. The guy on multiple occasions has implied he hates Mara Jade and Male Revan for example.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

@@jonathanryan9946 why would Pablo have such shit taste? Is Leland like that too?

[@thgar4850]

Between Ep 4 and Ep 5 there are so many stories that there cannot be anywhere near enough time for all of the stories in such a short period. And that was before the additional comics of dark horse years ago. So yes, some of the stories need to be set aside. What Disney failed to do was plan anything.

[@edg4441]

Great video and great content. Unfortunately, we are getting to the beginning of the Timothy Zahn Trilogy with "Ahsoka" following the "Heir to the Empire" storyline where Ahsoka Tano will replace Luke Skywalker. This is sacrilege to me. This is happening because KK believes Luke Skywalker's story arc is "a cautionary tale". KK is an imbecile and I still don't know how she has a job. However, that may end soon when not if "Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny" flops on the weekend of June 30. Thanks for covering the fact Disney Marvel has retconned the storyline where Han Solow was married previously to Sana Starros before Leia. Obviously, she's black and she's a terrible addition to the lore. Why can't she be Asian, Indian, Hispanic, Middle Eastern, or Native American? It's a shame Timothy Zahn didn't write more adventures of Luke and Mara Jade like his novel "Survivor's Quest". That's a great book, and I'd like to have seen more storylines like that taking place after their marriage. Star Wars is dead to me and there's no going back. We'll see how popular Ahsoka Tano's take on the "Heir to the Empire" storyline is when it comes out in August. It may have an audience and do well. It may not. We'll have to wait and see. All I know is when Disney voided the Legends Canon for the crap and garbage their company has written and produced in the last ten years, I continue to lose interest in following Star Wars. It's a tragedy and a joke at the same time.

[@priestesslucy]

1:45 I can't say I've ever read anything in the EU I didn't like on a conceptual scale. Cannot say the same about Star Wars under the management of Darth Mickey

[@achaudhari101]

“Darth Mickey” this weaboo says.

[@JediPastorAaron]

I enjoy reading the comics, though a lot of it is pretty bad. But it’s the only place in Disney Star Wars, that they are actually using the original trio pretty prominently. But I have always been flabbergasted by the fact that in issue one of the new Star Wars run, one of the very first comics they put out, Vader and Luke meet, and Vader recognizes that he has a son. So he spends the next three years investigating him with the help of Boba Fett. That seems to completely contradict Empire strikes back when the emperor reveals that Vader has a son.

[@johnnyinsac]

For me, growing up with the Star Wars EU, I had a good understanding of how we got to the beginning of each new arc. With Episode 7, I was almost immediately asking questions about how things got to where they were. Not just questions about the story, itself - although TFA did such a good job of posing fun questions to theorize about. But in-universe questions, character questions, and things that really needed some context going into it. For example, no one has ever really explained why this version of the New Republic disarmed...to the point where Leia would even NEED to be leading a "resistance" movement funded by the NR...but not really. I don't care HOW tired of war the galaxy was, we live in our real world...and there's no way we can relate to the concept of a state not being willing to use military force to secure it's sovereignty and protect it's citizens from some very big external and internal threats. So when we get told things like "oh, well after Jakku...", it's just silly to imagine that any government would disarm immediately with political instability like it was facing, and the Disney NR had very unrealistic treaty with the Imperial Remnant. And it's made so much worse by Disney CONSTANTLY using references to the EU. We're literally forced to compare both New Republics, and I'm gonna tell you...not my New Republic lol! The NR in the EU was armed to the teeth, and it's military had no shortage of enthusiasm for beating the hell out of any threat...especially uppity Imperial ones. EU Han and Leia had a separation brought on by trauma from the death of a child, Chewie, and war that really did a number on their relationship - he split for a while...but he came back to her after going through some shit. Canon Han is just some gambling addict dead beat that left his wife and kid? Whew! There are shades of the EU in Disney canon, and it's clear that they think it's fine...but it is not coming across well. It all just forces us to compare and go back to the older content.

[@edvolz73]

I read quite a few of the new cannon books, most were pretty good, there are a few that are exceptional. My favorite is probably Lost Stars, it was very well written.

[@ridensroom6957]

I only found out recently that shutting it down stopped writers carrying on the story. As a huge Jaina Solo fan, I am so mad that we may never get the Sword of the Jedi book. They should have allowed the EU to continue but make it clear it is separate from the films. But obviously they should have just adapted it in the first place.

[@istari0]

The problems with canon in Star Wars go back to the beginning of the EU as Lucas never acknowledged it as such and while there are certainly amazing stories in there that fit well with what Lucas did there are others that didn't. It's unfortunate that the EU was not overseen in such a way as to maintain consistency with George's work but there you have it. As far as Disney turning EU into Legends and acting like they would not be held to anything that was in it, that was a mistake. What Disney has come up with has been, with few exceptions, far worse than what was typically found in the EU. Disney would have been far wiser to start by including selected stories from the EU in the canon they wanted to create and build off of that. Of course, that also would have required making sure the people making the various movies, shows, etc were good at their jobs and cared about Star Wars. Even a movie trilogy of The Thrawn trilogy could have been butchered with the wrong people making it. That would have to have begun with Darth Kennedy not being in charge at Lucasfilm.

[@lainpereyra1833]

2:46 Thank you for the comnet down de image.... the dot is Vader.... wow! never see that in movies ('cuz don't fit the screen...)

[@ShavierTheHedgehog]

I was reading EU books and loving them, but after Disney's cancelation I stopped reading and buying them (13 books are lying not read) and went with new canon ones. I liked Sith Lords and Tarkin, but Aftermath was so meh I dropped it in the middle and after TLJ, I stopped those too (3 books lying not read). I was also reading Disney's comics, but when Leia said "Thank the Light" instead "Thank the Force", cuz they wanted to connect OT with High Republic, I stopped those too.

[@Setzer81]

I never read the comics from the new Star Wars canon, but EU comics published by Dark Horse back in the day worked best when comic book stories were set in different eras from the movies (Like Tales of the Jedi, The Old Republic and Star Wars Legacy), or if they are set in the same timeline as the movies, but do not focus on the main cast of the movies (Like Wedge Antilles in X-Wing: Rogue Squardon, or Quinlan Vos in Star Wars: Republic).

[@chrisb4457]

Shifting everything in the EU to "legends" status was a solid idea, since it allowed usage of this material as needed/desired. However, the first movie made by Disney should have used some of this content! A simple example of this would be the character's names. If Rey was called Jaina and Ben called Jacen (Kylo Ren called Darth Caedus), then things woudl have been MUCH smoother. All they had to do was start at a time after Luke trained them for a while, and the Mary Sue issue would never have appeared. Jaina was the savior, anyway, so that checks the diversity box, and they could have easily brought in Mara Jade, which doubles "the Force is Female" concept, and hard core fans would back up LucasFilms' decision! So much wasted potential right out of the gate.

[@GrievousReborn]

With these reprints they even have redesigned the covers for some of the expanded universe books

[@RoboticPope]

The new cover artworks are all far worse than the originals.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

​@@RoboticPope some of them feel like AI art. Outbound Flight cover makes no sense because Thrass shouldn't wear yellow color.

[@zelithfang2365]

"getting rid" of the EU/legends was one of the worst, stupidest and hugest company suicide they could have even done. The EU has so many damn stories from books, to comics, games, you name it, its there. Whats crazy about it the massive time scale it covers. It covers before the old republic, the rise and fall of the republic and the empire along with the imperial war lord factions, Thrawn, Palp's return and even after the Vog war. There's so many stories to be told, stories that even were taking place in tandem to what we saw in the movies that fits in perfectly without messing up anything and somehow even adds to it. Disney was sitting on a massive wealth of untapped potential, and most importantly for any company who wants to make profit as fast and easy as possible, money. Think about it, you already have the books that give you the entire story. Wanna make a game based off the books? Perfect, just stick to the book and the story is done for you. Wanna make a multi part series? (Which Disney is more interested in than making movie). Well you practically have the script for you already done. Get the books or whatever games talks about it and there you go. All they need to do is adapt it to fit into a game set up or series. Everything is literally there at their finger tips. They also have so many damn choices because of how vast it is. I mean lets take EU Boba Fett for the perfect example of a series tool. They ruined the cannon one. EU Fett was born before the clone wars, trained by Jango, he lived throughout the clone wars and was able to escape the pit he fell into, had to bring back his rep after that because his name was no longer feared after his defeat, he saw the fall of the empire and found one of the last remaining clones who found a growth decelerator that allowed him to stop the super fast growth clones grew at. Without Boba knowing he actually injected him with the deageent which made Fett live so damn long. He even became Mandalor and brought the Mando people into a golden age and found a never before seen new vein of mando steel. He literally seen it all! Think of the series potential! It'll be the longest running series. You could even do a prequal that is about Jango and he's start. But nope, they "got rid" of the EU. They are allergic to using anything the was made under Lucas. The reason why I say "got rid" like that because they have on multiple occasions blatantly stolen ideas from the EU and acted like it was original ideas. What's somehow worse is they somehow managed to make whatever they've stolen worse than what it was originally. Its like cheating on a test by copying your friend's test answers and even though the answers are right in front of you you still somehow, not just fail, but fail incredibly. Disney doesn't care about making a profit, if they did they wouldn't have done all the stupid stuff they have done, constantly commiting company suicide over and over again.

[@ManiacMayhem7256]

Nah they shouldnt integrate Legends into new canon. Would go horribly wrong. You know what they should do? Make Legends its own separate but valid timeline rather than being non canon. Make animated 2D adaptations in a style of Ninth Jedi or Dark Head from Visions to adapt several Legends stories. Dawn of the Jedi, Tale of the Jedi, SWTOR, Bane trilogy, Plageuis, Republic comics, Thrawn trilogy, X wing, Jedi Academy, Corellia trilogy, New Jedi Order, Legacy, etc. This would be awesome tbh so of course they arent gonna do it

[@hockey1973]

It's an excuse. They threw it away out of ignorance (I don't even think they knew anything about legends EU lore) thinking they wouldn't need it, then when their new stuff didn't pan they needed a scapegoat. The EU was fine. The novels had really started to come into their own and they were being setup to retire the big 3 before they canceled the EU outright. IMO all they had to do was adapt the core of "Lost Tribe of the Sith" for a new trilogy. Literally pick up from there. You have a time gap of 30ish years featuring Luke with a restored Jedi order alongside a new threat with lightsabers. They could end the new trilogy with Jaina being the focus for the franchise going forward because she was promoted to Master at the end of that series. A full Jedi vs Sith lightsaber war on the big screen ending with a well developed female character being the focus of the franchise going forward. They could literally print money with that idea AND they get everything they want. It was all there right in front of them. . .and they threw it away out of pure ignorance.

[@silverbullet1620]

Thor... I just want my pink and yellow lightsabers for my 3.75 in Star Wars figures.

[@maxeisenhardt8800]

I know that lot of fans love to see every gap filled, but I think that comics that use "legacy" characters as its main protagonists and take place in time periods where a higher form of canon (movies or series) have already a dominant presence shouldn't be an ongoing thing because of the clear lack of room for some significant development. Luke's random yellow-bladed lightsaber; Vader actually witnessing Luke and Leia's birth through a recording of a security camera on Polis Massa, or him venturing to Exegol and seeing for himself everything that Palpatine has been building, are things that feel so contrived that I'm having a hard time seeing them as canon. Shadows of the Empire worked nicely because it was conceived as THE big event between TESB and ROTJ, unlike War of the Bounty Hunters, that, while enjoyable, it was nonetheless just another arc of an already lengthy comic book continuity. Conversely, in the case of books, I think that the journey to Rogue One (Catalyst, Rebel Rising, and the movie itself) is a good example of how you can put together a compelling story using different media. And with Andor added to the equation, it only gets better. Rogue One has become the big crossover between the Erso and the Andor family saga, and it's great.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

Damn, so even nobodies have their family sagas. I thought fans wanted less Skywalker family drama because everyone was related to everyone.

[@Invalidcookie-bv4cx]

I like the story were Luke gets the G.I. temple guards saber. it's a good story.

[@dedalionarts6077]

3:54 I'm not 100% sure. But this seems like they wanted to reference the original Luke toy from Kenner . Where the toy of Luke from episode 4, and 5 had an Yellow Saber. As for resoning why this was done this way.. Let's just say RetroBlasting channel has the closest thing to an "answear". Because to be honest, there really isn't one.

[@dazdavis7896]

The first comics they started doing in 2015 were actually decent. The 2015 Vader comics were good. But they fell off QUICK with that mainline Star Wars series when they brought on a new author and lost all coherence to a storyline. It went to shit… They’ll never touch the original SW: Empire & SW: Rebellion comics for the OT from Dark Horse. And Dark Horse’s original Vader comics and those Dark Times comics were some of best ever made. What they NEED TO DO is set it up like DC and Marvel. Make things for BOTH timelines. Earth 1 (original/legends timeline) and earth 2 (new canon timeline) and publish content for BOTH timelines separately. THEY WOULD SELL MORE CANON CONTENT that way. If we still HAD the original timeline going on outside of just Star Wars: The Old Republic game, then people probably WOULD start to buy and check out the High Republic stuff. Because there are a TON of people like me that won’t buy anything out of blatant spite because of them dumping the actual, Lucas-era timeline of literally almost 40 years and telling ALL of those people fuck you your work doesn’t matter.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

It's worse than fuck you, they don't want to pay them.

[@geoffishy]

The top 10 craziest eu additions video would be good 👍🏻

[@MRDLT00]

1:50 Crazy sure, but at least they were creative and enjoyable to read/watch unlike the vast majority of Disney Era content. 😒

[@Shadowpack95]

Hey Thor what's your take on Jedi Battle Scars, why does the novel exist when almost nothing from the book is brought up or mentioned in Jedi Survivor. What was the point of the Novel?

[@MichaelDeNicola]

I have zero interest in reading the books or comics. I knew there was a tiered canon system and I just didn't want to bother

[@pulcherius]

Bottom line; its a commercial property being squeezed for all its worth. There are no fans involved in the decision making.

[@ErickMattig]

Thor, have you read Doctor Aphra? I've heard that it's very good, but I get pretty sceptical about comic books

[@mitch4065]

Hey Thor - would love to see your thoughts on Geetslys video about how the light side doesn’t exist and there just being the dark side and the force.

[@Alresu]

The Thrawn books are the only ones so far that really tempt me to begin reading Star Wars again... Timothy Zahn was always my favourite Star Wars author and Thrawn always one of my favourite characters overall (not only in Star Wars)... I wonder how he felt about them ripping up his creation. No too hard feelings, as it seems, but I can't imagine it didn't hurt...

[@peterpidrak9501]

Exactly. If they are going to re-print the stuff, then keep going. I would much rather read what happened with the prophecy of the sword of the Jedi than any of the crap we’re getting.

[@benparker1822]

Lucas was smart with the EU. He had final yes/no vote on stories that got written/drawn. So, that made for a bit of continuity.