Was the original idea for Reva much better... or even worse?

[@marsy24-o6b]

i actually like that idea for Reva MUCH better. Makes more sense as to why she goes around killing jedi instead of just because the plot needs her to do.

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

It would make a lot more sense! Unfortunately not everything. She still does things that just make her the main focus, like Meta-moves, in a way, like when she stabs the grand inquisitor, plants the tracker, kidnaps Leia, these are just actions to make her the main villain, but she does things a bit too well, unbelievably effective, I guess. She’s always right, she’s never fooled, she gets to places before people who have a good head start, discovers everything that’s hidden, her plans always work out, basically. She needed to be more relatable, more streamlined as a character with less fingers in all the pies. She didn’t need to be grand inquisitor, but for whatever reason Disney had to force it in there.

[@Aml-dr5oz]

she is killing the Jedi to avenge the death of the younglings by serving the people who ordered the distraction of the Jedi order that lead to the killing of the younglings......disney logic.

[@Yarblocosifilitico]

@@henrikaugustsson4041 except for when she parkours her way through the city while Obi-Wan and Leia have a shoot out, and her jumping to her death and Obi stopping it, then getting down the building (polite bounty hunters left him alone) and checking on her... Meanwhile Reva is still parkouring her way there (which was a few blocks away).

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

@@Yarblocosifilitico true, but the thing is she was still right in how she flushed them out and the other inquisitors opposed her for bad reasons to make her look better. She didn’t catch Obi-Wan then because she was going to catch him later, after he had his little moment with falling Leia and all that. In a way, this was still all to elevate Reva, because her plan was perfect, she still found Obi-Wan, she would’ve had him if the GI hadn’t distracted her, so she didn’t really do anything wrong, it was everyone else getting in her way.

[@Yarblocosifilitico]

@@henrikaugustsson4041 yeah, agree, they made her invulnerable even when she fails (Vader choking her and her mentioning the tracker, for example). She also seems to be inmortal haha, surviving two stab wounds (first one as a kid!)

[@TheDanteJamesShow]

Let’s not forget what happened when Darth Maul found Obi-Wan on Tatooine. As soon as he realize that Obi-Wan was protecting someone, Obi-Wan ignited his light saber. He didn’t even know *who* Obi-Wan was protecting, and Obi-Wan decided that Maul knew too much and had to die then and there. They’ve turned Obi-Wan into a wimpy sad sack instead of a badass Sage who protects his mission *no matter the cost.*

[@siiir1322]

THIS

[@TheDanteJamesShow]

@@siiir1322 Kenobi should have ended with him hugging Reva and then igniting his lightsaber through her heart

[@EternityKingdomsHeadHoncho]

You know the Obi-Wan writers donked up when Kenobi’s brief appearance in Rebels was better-written and more consistent with the PT and OT than the show intended for more mature audiences. Not bashing Rebels here; just pointing out how frustrating it is that one episode of that show beats the pants off this six-episode dumpster fire.

[@ronramen5827]

Isn’t the point of the show that he shapes up into that Kenobi after regaining confidence and reconnecting with the Jedi way? Yes, the execution and presentation isn’t great, but idk about this argument. Obi-Wan SHOULD be sad, he SHOULD be broken. Of course, in the end he stands up tall and perseveres, fully tackling his duty as a Jedi master. There are other, arguably better, ways to do Kenobi this time period, but imo the whole regaining his faith, hope, and fighting spirit thing is fine.

[@yourstruly4817]

Maul surviving isn't canon imo

[@Luks2820]

The mistake was giving Reva that much importance. As a secondary villain she would do fine, a competent Jedi hunter and someone who could give Obi-Wan a good fight before he got his mind back in track. As it was, Reva basically shared Obi-Wan's spot as protagonist and she had no business doing that in this series. We wanted Obi-Wan and Darth Vader, not someone we never heard about getting in the middle of this.

[@eyeheartsushi2212]

Agreed!

[@devinhargrave4723]

And honestly, side characters work best in terms of giving them their own spin offs too. Just dropping someone in and giving them insane importance after being told that you were getting a different series doesn't do much to make them likeable.

[@Sergeant_Camacho]

This. She should have been like Lurtz in The Fellowship Of The Ring. Which was the nemesis of the main protagonists, and in the final battle we have this epic confrontation. But of course, Lucasfilm crew is incompetent and don't have any talented writers who care about telling a good story. They want to make money fast and relying on nostalgia.

[@jaysgamingcorner8539]

100% agree!

[@humanbeing2420]

@@devinhargrave4723 Having the character kill Jedi, maim innocent civilians and kidnap children also doesn't help make her likable.

[@Kale13000]

I think this makes way WAY more sense at least for Reva’s motivations. It still has issues though. The reasoning behind Vader killing Reva is still dubious, though having him kill her makes a lot more sense then him killing her and still magically surviving. At least Kenobi had some part in it instead of her being a narcissist and only sparing Luke because she saw… herself, or whatever that was, but I also agree it wouldn’t make sense for Kenobi to let her go. I would say that this would have been better, but still not at all good. At the very least though at least this writer understands having consequences for villains instead of magically letting them go

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

What they should’ve done was that Reva believed the propaganda, but didn’t know Vader was Anakin, and when Obi-Wan tells her the truth she goes off to take revenge on the youngling-slayer. That’s when she gets killed, in a duel with Vader where she dies fighting like a hero. It would’ve been sooooooo much better, her story wouldn’t have so many contradictions and she would probably be a great character then.

[@Kale13000]

@@henrikaugustsson4041 yeah, at that point the only issue is Obi wan letting her go. I know he’s not a cold blooded killer, but he also would protect Luke. Maybe if the story was done in a way that there was an understandable reason for Kenobi to trust reva

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

@@Kale13000 in my version Reva would never know of Luke, that scene was stupid and pointless.

[@Kale13000]

@@henrikaugustsson4041 that’s a good point. If she didn’t know about Luke Obi wan would have no reason to kill her at all, and the story would then make way more sense

[@CoolDudeProducts]

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Van der lets Reva live twice simply because that Anikan/the good in him seeking thru. There are many comics where Vader fails to kill insignificant people, and it feels like a mistake, but it's just his Guilt.

[@TheCosmicBroadcast]

I keep hearing all of the plots that were originally created for this show, and they sound so much better than what we got. I really wish we were able to experience Ewan’s return on the big screen in a movie theater with a fully fleshed out story. Sad to think that Solo’s flop led to all of these mediocre tv shows and other media.

[@michaeldavidson8766]

EXACTLY!

[@Jacob-ef1sv]

I 100% agree, Ewan deserved better

[@legosmithsigh]

The solo flop excuse make no sense because rogue one made a billion. They didn’t think that there were other factors besides it being a Star Wars story?

[@williamflowers9435]

It could have been worse for Kenobi… this is Disney we’re talking about.

[@TheCosmicBroadcast]

@@legosmithsigh exactly! Disney panicked cause the ONE thing they care about is money, and since they didn’t make a lot with Solo, the executives basically scrapped EVERYTHING. Without even taking a second thought of maybe they weren’t telling stories that Star Wars fans wanted to see? All they had to do was listen to us, make products that the fans enjoy, and they’ll STILL get their money!!

[@QuestionMan]

This is the fundamental problem with Disney Star Wars: it isn't the characters they have, it's what they choose to do with them. Creation by committee just doesn't work. Reva's function for the series existed OUTSIDE the story's core narrative and so could only fall flat. Her character had potential but was wasted, being shoehorned into a function that did not fit.

[@shanenolan8252]

You cant make art by committee.

[@andrewbirkett698]

Very well put.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@andrewbirkett698 💯

[@joeclaridy]

Yet another sign of not just Disney but the entire American film industry declining in basic writing and creativity.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@joeclaridy Especially creativity

[@mrcat3493]

"You can only redeem so much", the voice of reason, no wonder LucasFilm did not do that.

[@Kale13000]

For real. They love no consequences

[@Cheesehead_Caleb]

Even this very vague description of the original plan for Reva is MILES and MILES better than what we got

[@lordcaplinz6137]

"Somehow Reva knows" 21st century writing skills.

[@chasehedges6775]

And Palpatine returned

[@tomriddler1926]

somehow it came to this.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

"You can only redeem so much. People bring up Vader" Yes, Vader was absolutely evil yet got redemption, AND HE DIED. There comes a point that there can be no 'wipe the slate clean and retire', at the very least you get to 'spending the rest of your life repaying the debt', but eventually redemption can only be gained by the way someone chooses to die.

[@yourstruly4817]

And then he became a force ghost, so dying wasn't the end for him

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

Yeah, if Vader lived he would’ve spent his days in a cell or be executed publicly for his war crimes. If he lived it would also lessen his sacrifice, which is the whole key to his redemption. He died destroying the greatest evil, who was murdering his estranged son in front of his eyes. He knew it would mean his death if he intervened, and he did it anyway, and that’s why he was redeemed.

[@True-Believer616]

My biggest issue with Vader's redemption is him becoming a Force Ghost. I mean after all the evil he committed. They should not have added that to the story imo.

[@LordHollow]

*Force kids who died during Order 66, side eyeing Force Vader*

[@my600_lblife]

@@True-Believer616 the entire point of the story for George was redemption and that it is always possible regardless of how far they are from the light.

[@WR288]

Had no business being introduced in the Kenobi series. Show could've been lot better if they freed her screentime for more Obi Wan and Vader.

[@Sam_T2000]

after _Fallen Order_ had a very similar character to Reva in Trilla (sp?), they really should’ve retooled Reva to be something more unique. also, she definitely should have died.

[@Shipwreck15151]

Guarantee they bit Revas story off of Trilla. I loved that story line.

[@Sam_T2000]

@@Shipwreck15151 - no, it seems the original writer created Reva several years ago, before _Fallen Order…_ perhaps they were developed at the same time, but either way, they should’ve avoided having two characters with such similar stories.

[@yarpen26]

Amazing. Disney's been in possession of Star Wars for just a decade and has already stolen _two_ dark side characters from video games for their movie material.

[@GENGHISKHAN-hk3qs]

I gotta say I can’t imagine anything being good about this character I have no problem with the actress but I have a problem with the writing not a good character I blame KK. Pretty sure that it was not called the Rava show.

[@warborn_inc.]

Agreed. I actually feel bad for the actress because the greatest actor/actress alive couldn't have saved this horribly written mess.

[@GENGHISKHAN-hk3qs]

@@warborn_inc. that is true💯

[@GENGHISKHAN-hk3qs]

@@warborn_inc. yeah, exactly

[@drakealexander6668]

Reva could have work. She was treated like a main character. Now, her story could've been interesting but they added this unnecessary level of secrecy about her. We all knew she was the little girl at the beginning of the show so, the realization of her being "a Youngling" was weak and quite lame. That first draft of her believing the Jedi plotted against the republic made more sense. Like you mentioned, her motivation to get Jedi would've been justified and then her realization that she was deceived. She shouldn't know who Anakin/Vader was since her motivation to help Obi-Wan would be to get at Vader. Then she discovers with Obi-Wan that Anakin was Vader. Then she dies, making Vader more of a villain and prompting Kenobi to try and stop Anakin one more time.

[@j.j.herrick6871]

Reva’s backstory is compelling and interesting. The idea of having someone to defeat or save is also compelling and interesting. What was delivered was not compelling or interesting but frustrating in the plot holes it creates. I really think the writer they brought in either wasn’t talented enough to pull this off or didn’t have enough leeway and was overruled a lot. In my “head cannon” fan fiction rewrite I have a hard time getting Reva’s story to makes sense. A much better streamlined story is just having a random but interesting unseen to this point Inquisitor be his antagonist if you really want Obi-Wan to defeat someone. But any Obi-Wan story these things are a must as to not break cannon : - Nothing can lead back to Luke on Tattooine. Basically no scenes w Inquisitors there otherwise it is malpractice for Obi-wan to let them stay. - Obi-Wan shouldn’t be “adventuring” throughout the galaxy looking like a Jedi. He should be under cover. Sorry Ewan, some scenes your face will be covered/partially covered. - Leia should never know it was Obi-Wan who saves her. It should be his undercover alter-ego. This eliminates a lot of the dialog between them meaning Obi-Wan needs grownups to talk to. This series had the worst action scenes in any Star Wars movie / series I have ever seen. If you can’t direct / edit action, get someone who can.

[@lilboybluenotes7042]

Ever since Disney plus started I’ve wanted a Quinlan Vos show, I think he’s such an intricate character that you could do so much with. But since I’ve seen Obi Wan, I take it back. If they have no clue how to handle one of the legacy iconic characters, how in the world could they be trusted with a tougher Vos?

[@JAdino]

It is wise to retract that desire in the face of Obi-Wan "Catastrophic" Obi

[@jonathanmaestas8080]

I would have had GREAT respect for Disney if they had portrayed Reva as a very villianous character and then have her STAY that way. Similar to how they used Grand Moff Tarkin or Valin Hess in the Mandalorian. That would have made her far more interesting since the expectation is that she would eventually become good. And, no matter how Obi-Wan tries to reason with her, she refuses to turn away from the darkness and he is forced to kill her.

[@greyworld6242]

Damn THIS is the reva we should’ve gotten! Not what we got stuck with. This original version feels like she actually has a character and can probably stand beside trilla as a great inquisitor character in the Star Wars story. This should have never been changed! Damn you Disney!

[@achaudhari101]

That could still happen in regards to her starting out as an Inquisitor.

[@greyworld6242]

@@achaudhari101 yeah

[@Mr.PepeSilvia]

Leave it to KK to turn Obi-Wan into a complete farce in his own show. I understand he needs to struggle because he's in exile, but his complete lack of intelligence, leadership, and competence is insulting to the character.

[@Hikaru3899]

Lucasfilm loves to ruin our legacy characters. ESPECIALLY if they are straight white men

[@lxdarknessxl]

Yoda went into exile. Obi-Wan didn't. He went to Tatooine to watch over and train Luke.

[@Mr.PepeSilvia]

@@lxdarknessxl still a form of exile imo but I hear you

[@selendile030]

Reva gives a chance for something interesting: We've yet (in the new canon) to see someone come back from the dark side and struggle with repenting and making amends. Every time someone turns back to the light, they die immediately after lol. Could be an interesting story.

[@christopherm.1258]

That`s the reason I love Cere in Jedi Fallen Order.

[@parttimesaint3165]

It should never happen consider what we learn about the Dark Side. If you get seduced by it, it will dominate your entire life and warp your mind into someone else. Luke gets this warning and then we saw how it changed Anakin and his descent into Vader from "I want to save Padmé and my baby" to "We can rule the galaxy" and "I can overthrow Paplatine". Only since Disney took over has the Dark Side gone from a wholly corrupting force to a gothic lifestyle anyone can choose to walk away from. Even Kylo found it difficult to embrace the Dark Side by choice ("The Light Side is so tempting grandpapa Vader").

[@selendile030]

@@parttimesaint3165 i disagree to an extent; I agree on your points about Kylo Ren, but the old EU had plenty of characters return from the dark side and it made for some compelling character arcs.

[@patriciafenwick5846]

Even though Beattie's might have had some issues, his story sounded soooo much better than the one we got

[@HectorLopez0217]

Reva surviving Order 66 doesn’t work because she survived getting stabbed by a lightsaber(twice), not get executed by the clones while playing dead, doesn’t excuse her joining the inquisitors, and if she survived then what’s stopping more younglings from popping up

[@emberfist8347]

I mean the 501st and Vader wouldn't be sloppy. Anyone who survived at the Temple would have fled the building when the attack started and nobody saw them there.

[@MCsCreations]

I absolutely agree, Thor. You know, Lucasfilm should create a group... A group dedicated to the canon lore and where those ideas would be debated... And things would be refined. No, wait... That supposedly already exists! 😳 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@EvanBerry.]

I always felt that, in A New Hope, until Vader says, "I feel something -- a presence I've not felt since..." he believed Obi-Wan to be dead and only realized his mistake in that moment. So I thought it would have been fitting if the Kenobi series had ended with Vader thinking Kenobi was dead. As it actually ended, though, we're supposed to believe that Vader was told to simply forget Obi-Wan under the orders of Palpatine, even though he knows him to still be alive.

[@emberfist8347]

I rather they left it when never meeting. Mustafar makes more sense like he was left the room because he was going to blow up the hanger if he stayed there any longer sensing Obi-Wan was there. Plus the other lines suggests they never encountered each other after Mustafar.

[@onliwankannoli]

Given their resources and the great characters and lore to work with, I can’t believe how poor their stories are. Don’t they ever think their ideas through? They have no understanding or love for Star Wars.

[@yarpen26]

"So, that kinda completed her arc" It sounds like these guys come up with ideas between two turd pushes while sitting on a toilet and immediately insert them into the story without ever revisiting them again.

[@sometimesfriendly9839]

They should have had the courage just to make her a villain, start to finish. That might have been interesting. I have no interest in the Reva we got in Kenobi or this alternate Reva. Make her so evil that she starts to hatch a plan to kill Palpatine and Vader and take over the Empire.

[@CordeliaWagner]

But it doesn't make sense because we know she won't take over.

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

The story of Reva buying into the propaganda would’ve been great, IMO. She also shouldn’t have been hunting Luke, she shouldn’t have known Anakin was Vader, and Obi-Wan telling her that could’ve been a great catalyst for that fight where she ambushes Vader and she should’ve died then and there. If those things had happened, she would’ve been a GREAT new character, IMO, also granted that she didn’t do all the other silly shit she did, like the parkour, stabbing the grand inquisitor, planting the tracker et.c. If she had been just a brainwashed woman seeking revenge on the Jedi, most of the actions she takes would be perfectly explained, and if she found out the truth in the last episode or so, there could be revenge and redemption for her, a great climax to the show and she would be more sympathetic.

[@davekingrey1009]

Force users can feel each other when they are using the force. That's why Kenobi couldn't reach out to Yoda through the force in fear of getting caught. I makes sense that she could sense they were the same person having felt his force ora up close. But I do think it would have been better if she didnt know Anakin was Vader and thought the Jedi council were the traitors, until Obi-Wan tells her that Anakin is Vader, and THAT would be the thing that makes her have a change of heart.

[@emberfist8347]

Except that is not how the force works. You can't sense people from opposite parts of the galaxy.

[@HandofOmega]

There are parts I like in both versions but ngl on the whole this does mostly sound better

[@ankuriboh]

I didn't watch the show because I let my Disney+ subscription expire, but I had some long conversations with a coworker about this series on an episode by episode basis. According to him, during Reva's flashbacks one of the clone troopers refers to Anakin as "Darth Vader" or "Lord Vader", or in some way calls him Vader, which would explain how she knows his identity provided she was awake and alert while playing dead. But this is second-hand information. I could very well be wrong.

[@emberfist8347]

I still don't think that would work for the simple reason that Clones wouldn't be so sloppy as to not make sure there was no one playing dead.

[@redcr24]

Thor I wholeheartedly agree about Reva. ..some aspects of her original story do sound better..her survival is the plot point that drives me nuts!

[@northofknowhere130]

Now, the person Kenobi should've been saving in this series is himself. 2:13 I'd imagined that the Emperor would've went to great lengths to make sure no one finds out, so I find it a bit difficult to believe she searched the archives for it. As for Reva, like everything else, it's how well her story is written and how it fits into the overall vision of the series. If written right, that itself could've been the reason to draw Kenobi off of Tatooine and not Leia. Not involving Bail or Luke, which created more chaos. The series should've taken place 5 years after "Revenge of the Sith", not 10. The only reason why I think it was a decade is to have Anakin's kids in it and like Thor explains at 6:41, it draws out too many questions. The only promising arc for Reva was her being an Inquisitioner and that's where it should've started. Not her being a Youngling, knowing that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker, etc... Just an Inquisitioner obsessed with impressing the Emperor and unseat Vader. Reva could've been getting too close to Luke, like we saw in the series, but with Kenobi fearing the worst, could lead them away and off world. Reva gets closer to her goal, Vader finished his downward spiral by become completely possessed by the Dark Side, and Kenobi comes to terms with the past while starting his new journey.

[@modernslice2238]

Vader is already fully consumed after ROTS, that's the point of that film. Him battling Kenobi and losing, burning.....being reborn as a machine and discovering Padme died....the transformation is complete....it didn't need 10 years post that moment to solidify that

[@northofknowhere130]

@@modernslice2238 As I said in the comment above, I believe it should've been 5 years, but the writer went with 10 with the attempt to create a connection between Leia and Kenobi. Regarding Vader, I understand where you're coming from as the threat of losing Padme' and his unborn child forced Anakin to seek the Dark Side even more and what happened on Mustafar with losing to Obi-Wan and Padme's death, to me, gave Vader a clear opportunity to take over. I still believe there was more Anakin left in him that Vader chipped away at until their next meeting.

[@williamflowers9435]

If Palpatine can so easily read Luke’s thoughts in ROTJ, especially if you consider the part about him asking if Yoda was alive, then he’d easily pull whatever he wanted from Reva.

[@Matman2099]

Put it this way. KK got hold of the script and saw fit to have extensive rewrites.

[@TheClem552]

Do not worry, everything will be explained in the reboots/makes of the OT.

[@firehoundlt]

I do like the first idea for Reva much better than the one we got. I think it could have worked if she did not know of Luke. You mentioned that Vader probably not believe her and your probably right. But it could work with some editing. Have Palpatine's conversation about Obi Wan happen BEFORE Reva shows up. Then if he doesn't believe her there is at least a reason why he let's it go. (albeit a flimsy reason) As to him killing her there are two options at this point. One is he doesn't believe her and kills her for lying. Two, IF he does take her at face value he would recognize that she is truly powerful for killing Obi Wan when even he couldn't. Therefore she must be killed as she could become a future threat to him. Anyway just my take on stuff.

[@megamattzx]

The only thing from the original idea that I would actually change was to have Reva actually fight Vader in order to Obi-Wan time to escape. She would know that you would die in the process and it would have made a lot more sense than there for her to stop the obsession with Vader so instead of fighting Vader in order to try to kill him, she would pretty much fight Vader to buy Obi-Wan time to escape. Perhaps even realizing that Obi-Wan could have a much larger part to play in the Empire's later downfall and perhaps even Vader's downfall as a result which would lead to her resolve to face Vader head-on and face certain death at the same time. In concept and in theory, this idea for reva actually makes a lot more sense and could have been a good story if executed properly. Her dying at the hands of Vader made a lot more sense than what we got narratively speaking , my issues would have been as to how she would have died. I feel a small tweak would be needed and it would have been a lot more engaging and made a lot more sense for her to sacrifice herself to save Obi-Wan by fighting Vader rather than lying to his face. Perhaps she would attempt to lie at first but then be forced to face Vader head on when she realizes that Vader know she's lying and in an attempt to save Obi-Wan and if we were to go down her knowledge of Luke, Luke from being discovered by the Empire she then battles Vader in an attempt knowing that she's going to die to avoid capture. With the exception of her surviving the wound in episode 5 I believe, that is how I actually saw her actually dying. An attempt to battle Vader, only for it to be a fruitless attempt.

[@zendoargos4988]

There's a popular saying "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" Apply that to Hollywood. If you can't tell a story that doesn't fuck up an established universe, don't tell the story. Kenobi did significant damage to the Skywalker Saga (6 films not 9) and should never have been told. People watched the show in large numbers out of hope, but a significant percentage of us have now lost all hope after even more legacy characters have been made to look incompetent and weak in comparison to poorly written new characters.

[@siiir1322]

How i would have made a kenobi show/movie: -He still is a hermit and has lost his faith -a group of young Jedi finds him on tatooine thanks to a holocron -he basically sends them right into the arms of the empire, because he wants to stay hidden at all cost -he regrets his decision After Qui gon talks to Kenobi for the first time and tells him even though the fight was lost, there is still hope and that kenobi needs to find his path again -the Young group of jedi leave the planet to a „hiding Spot“ (the deathtrap kenobi sent them) -Kenobi leaves tatooine to save the young jedi -Vader finds the jedis and kills them in a epic fight scene -kenobi learns that anakin survived -rematch of the century -kenobi kinda wins, but he has to decide if he wants to kill Vader and die with him or if he leaves the planet, but that way Vader also survives (maybe the factory or wherever they are is about to explode or crash into the ground) -he leaves because he realizes Luke is their only hope to win against the empire and killing Vader wont stop the emperor Edit: Vader stabs kenobi deadly and kenobi cuts vaders Mask in half (like in the original). Vader survives thanks to his hate and Obi Wan survives because of his hope. He knows he needs to be there for luke. That would explain why the fight in EP4 was so slow (kenobi is since then injured and cant fight anymore) and Vader would think Obi wan died to his wound like Qui Gon. After their fight Vader would stop looking for kenobi

[@siiir1322]

And OF COURSE the first scene of the show needs to be the holocron recording of Kenobi After 66 warning surviving jedis

[@achaudhari101]

The Jedi plot sounds like it would also divert attention away from Obi Wan.

[@Nightlightknight]

I think the combination of her witnessing Anakin killing her friends and picking up the empire’s official version of events that a certain Lord Vader, the emperor’s new enforcer purged the hone of the treacherous Jedi meant she knew who Vader is. I never got the impression that Reva would return to Vader and that Obi Wan trusted that she would not betray them. Makes perfect sense. It just remains to see if there is a season 2 and what that does with Reva.

[@deadeye4047]

My hope for Reva was that she was the reason why Obi-Wan believed that Dark Siders couldn't be redeemed. I was hoping for a Obi-Wan vs. Reva match for the life of Luke due to the hyperspace speed theory.

[@___David__]

The idea behind Reva wasn't bad. But the character was on the wrong series AND it was given to an actress who simply doesn't have the acting chops to pull off such a complex character.

[@dr.aleccort1833]

Don’t know how anything about current Star Wars could be worse

[@johncasas5908]

Would have loved if this series began by showing Vader as conquering General, slaughtering worlds to take for the Empires possession, showing the strength of the Empire. In Vaders third conquest, we meet Reva a young Jedi that got away during order 66, forced to fight after an invasion of the Empire taking over another planet. In the end she hunted down by the 2nd inquisitor and forced to face Vader where she is killed, as the planet falls to the Empire. Meanwhile Obi Wan in Tatoiine struggles with the hurt and betrayal however continues to commune and meditate in the force, training continued, saves Owens farm from an aggressive Hutt Raider group. Later an original Grand Inquistor on a secret mission with a squadron of troopers scout tatoiine for resources, and potential take over of the Planet. The inquisitor finds a force sensitive Jedi who has been living as a Tusken destroys the tribe, decides to use chemical weapons to burn all farms. Obi Wan steps into action, fights and Kills the original inquisitor avenging the Tuskens, and slays the trooper Squadron with a Tusken army. It is reported back to base that the Tuskens destroyed the squadron and Obi Wan use mind tricks spares a few troopers to report back that Tatoiine is desolate and not worth the war with the Hutts and locals. Last we get scenes of Yoda, meditating hurt and confused he relives the factors that caused the fall of the Jedi. He fast for many days then finds he communes with former Jedi Spirits who bring him back to the wisdom’s of the old Jedi, he becomes powerful in Wisdom an is able to commune with Obi Wan through force meditation shown as dreams to Obi, who learns how to advance train the new Skywalker boy in the short time they have.

[@marknovak6498]

Reva learning about Vader from Obi-Wan makes sense and it would have made sense she died knowing in the penultimate episode, not on Tantooin where see could have been easily traced.

[@GP.Records]

That is light years better than what we got.

[@clairemadeinheaven]

thanks a lot kathleen

[@CanIGetaGame134]

She shoulda gotten straight up MURDERED by Vader… but eh Vader just forgot how to kill somebody for some reason.

[@betterlatethannever4529]

Still say the girl killed in the temple should have been her apprentice instead. This gives a better reason to hate Kenobi for his results as a master.

[@MedalionDS9]

If i am tbh, I was surprised to learn Reva was still in the original Kenobi movie idea but it sounds at least on paper, slightly better... but still if the directing, acting, and editing don't play well with each other... it still can go to shit. A good script is important yes, but if it was still made with the same carelessness the series was made... it wouldn't matter that much better.

[@igodreamer7096]

The series or movie should never be on the table, just to avoid this kind of mess. Period.

[@warborn_inc.]

Agreed 100%

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

If you ask me we should have had Vader and the Grand Inquisitor duo for the entire show. GI’s experience with hunting Jedi would have made him a more dangerous threat. His speech about patience is one of my favorite scenes in the show and something that should have been further focused on with his character. Reva’s recklessness being rewarded every episode doesn’t really make any sense, especially when it’s implied so many times how green she is.

[@Madcapunlimited]

Redemption equals death seemed the obvious finish for her character, but Lucasfilm was like "nah"

[@kirgan1000]

Cant kill a black woman

[@joshdelagarza231]

Top 5 Worst Star Wars characters 1. Rose Tico 2. Admiral Holdo 3. Reva 4. Jar Jar 5. The biker mods

[@kerravon4159]

An even better question with regards to Reeeeva is.... "Who gives a crap?"

[@Paradox-es3bl]

Wow, go figure, the original version was better before Disney got their hands on things and changed things. Edit: I should clarify: I mean the motivations, mostly. I agree with you about not letting her go back to Vader and endanger Luke.

[@cobra312004]

The problem with Reva's redemption is that Obi-Wan and the larger Jedi Order during the Clone Wars are highly skeptical of coming back from the dark side. We see this demonstrated over and over in the original trilogy and Clone Wars. The only example we have is Quinlan Vos, and they were even proven right to be skeptical of his return. This isn't even surprising as the only way we've ever seen dark Jedi return to the light (and this is true in the EU as well) is via their attachments, which Jedi are taught to eschew. I'm convinced it's a big part of why Anakin seems to do such an abrupt 180 turn in Ep III, he believes what he was taught "once you start down the dark path, forever it will dominate your destiny". There's no mechanism for redemption in their religion, so he embraces what he sees as his only choice. So Obi-Wan can't bring Reva back from the dark side or he wouldn't have reason to say that Anakin must be destroyed when Luke wants to redeem him. It's not possible from his point of view. Of course they then avoided that by having Reva just come back to the light side all on her own for no real reason. Apparently the other children she slaughtered didn't trigger her internal goodness enough.

[@torrentarrow9097]

It has its issues but is by far better than what was told in the show and fixes the inconsistency of obi wan not knowing Anakin is Vader

[@emberfist8347]

Except that was never an inconsistency. He heard Palpatine address him as Vader in the scene where he looks over the security footage in the Jedi Temple after the attack.

[@Dandiel_]

8:49 Vader just says "I've been waiting for you Obi-wan" because he says early on when the Falcon lands "I feel a presents I haven't felt since.... " and he walks away. I'm pretty sure he knows he is on the death star.

[@Drifter2025]

I thought we were getting a lot of flash backs, Black Kersantan because he was a character in the Boba Fett, the tusken Jedi, and saving Uncle Owen. Boy, I was totally wrong and know nothing about Star Wars anymore.

[@Bwkjam]

I always thought that people give off a certain energy, almost like a voice in the force, and they can be recognized this way. Think of Maul reacting to his masters presence for example.

[@alejandrobernal9200]

*An echo*

[@vetarlittorf1807]

Hey Thor, how far into KOTOR 2 have you gotten?

[@alexneumann3092]

Somehow Reva learned Vader was Anakin. Somehow Palpatine returned.

[@niccistarkiller1131]

I kind of liked Reva I have only seen the Kai Patterson cut, but I think she worked as a inqisitor. Also that she can have seen that Anakin was Lord Vader. But I didn't understand how they knew Leia was so important that it would bring Obi-Wan out of hiding. I think the other Jedi that came to Obi-Wan was a good start This made the inqisitors come so Obi-Wan had to confront them and make them chase him of planet so they don't stay and find Luke. He is the no1 on Vader list so of course they follow him. If he leaves it also shows he was just hiding there and now he is on the run.Lots of adventures can happen on that trip. As I went in this series I expect every inqisitor to search Tatooine also Leia would be known to Vader already so why don't anyone question why Tatooine and Leia are so important to Obi-Wan

[@longgone6312]

I like your vids so much more then those vids with the group of pep that just make fun of every thing and spout nothing but hate ur vids are so much better and a breath of fresh air

[@OppressiveMaul]

Let’s not forget in rebels Season 2 Vader still has the Kenobi obessesion when he speaks to Palpatine, and in Ian mcdiarmids dub of that episode he Sounds frustrated by Vader bringing him up, which is now given context by their conversation in Kenobi, Palpatine clearly doesn’t like Vader’s obsession with him

[@anthonyplanzo1082]

We shouldn't expect Disney to understand the lore of Star Wars considering the fact that they don't even understand the lore of their own original stories when they make these live action movies based on older cartoons. It's a joke at this point.

[@parttimesaint3165]

Kenobi should never have even come close to Vader in this show. Reva should not have been able to break out of the Dark Side's grasp on her own. The Dark Side has been seriously nerfed since Disney took over. From "One misstep and it will rule your destiny" to "The Light Side is so tempting granddaddy" and "Eh, I don't feel like doing this dark stuff anymore".

[@slamdunktouchdown]

We had stories that were inspired and bold.. before the dark times before the empire

[@1701EarlGrey]

The only was Reva story would make some sense is if her story was fever dream, hallucination of dying brain of a child stabbed during night of Order 66. Otherwise her tale - new or old version - is nonsensical. How did a small child survive stab to the gut, especially considering that she was stabbed with lightsaber which is capable of melting metal? Why Reva was the only child in the temple who survived this? Was I suppose to believe that seriously wounded little child derived both troopers and Anakin and hide from authorities? How did this same person survived second stab wound to the gut? Why Vader didn't finish her off... for a second time? Why person who was hurt by Empire would ever work for Empire? Why Reva is OK with killing Jedi if Jedi Order was her only family? How is Reva know about Anakin being Vader or Organa being friends with Kenobi? Why would Reva by OK with killing, maiming and torturing people but killing Luke is bridge to far for her? Why then and only then she experience an epiphany? As I said; it have to be hallucination of dying brain... that or just Disney's bad writing!😂

[@patricksimpson1157]

It doesn't sound like that writer had fully figured out the ending yet because I can see no way that any of those scenarios could rid Vader of his obsession with Kenobi. Maybe if he believed her at first and did the kill her out of anger for killing Kenobi bit and it allows him to let go for awhile and then down the line he finds out it was a lie but the time without the obsession let him move on?But, as you pointed out, who really believes Vader would be duped like that? Interesting seeing some of the changes made though.

[@masamune2984]

If the Inquisitors were a TEAM of secondary characters (even if they are in conflict with each other) with shared screen time and importance, they, and Reva, would have worked much better as characters.

[@Trinsicity]

One way to address the "Vader would keep Reva and interrogate her etc" if she went back to him to convince him she killed Kenobi would be for her to resist him and refuse to submit herself. She attacks but Vader just toys with her to wear her down. Until she manages to get lucky and land a glancing blow on Vader (like Luke did hitting his shoulder in ESB), at which point Vader lashes out in rage and kills her. That way, she still gets her redemption, Vader doesn't get to know the truth, and most importantly their characters remain consistent. Also, this is a younger Vader not as experienced in the dark side as he is in ANH and ESB, so it makes sense that it could consume him momentarily to kill an enemy.

[@emberfist8347]

Except Vader was toying with Luke in Empire Strikes Back. He has no reason to do that with her. Hell killing Kenobi would be a death sentence itself as Vader would want to do it himself.

[@lucaraiti6780]

What if they did not involve the Inquisitors at all? Imagine this plot: Obi-Wan Kenobi now goes by Ben, well hidden on Tatooine, the best place to disappear and the last place Vadet would ever visit. He watches over Luke, and meditates to unoovk new knowledge, bit one day realizes he is not the only former jedi hiding there: a fallenbone now uses the force to act like a prowler, endangering the Lars family and attracting way too much attention on the planet. So Ben must find a way to stop him, without revealing himself as a Jedi.

[@gibsoneb3]

I gained an appreciation for the character at the end - it’s a big galaxy and she is insignificant. Whatever she knows about Vader is not of consequence - that said she’s no Asoka that is for sure. I enjoyed Kenobi - IMO it was real SWs.

[@jamespuso1627]

Ya know, I kinda like what we got a little better except I think it would have been better if she died. She reminded me a bit of Ventress and Maul in the later seasons of The Clone Wars where she's essentially a dark sider motivated by revenge. In the 6th episode she felt out of place but she was fine the rest of the way.

[@friidrottskarlsson3878]

Do a battle of the Heroes and villains with Reva

[@irena4545]

I like this idea MUCH better, even despite that potential plothole of letting her return to Vader. I would prefer to have her sacrifice herself by engaging Vader in order to help Kenobi (perhaps with Luke) escape, that would be her redemption as well as a nod to New Hope.

[@zh1992]

Think it would of been better or actually made sense if Obi Wan was willing to let Reva go but is killed by Owen who then says something along the lines of “you may be willing to trust her at the risk of Luke’s safety, but I’m not” which would add to the line “that wizards just a crazy old man”

[@MajorTomFisher]

I don't see how you can get away with a Jedi becoming an Inquisitor especially after almost being killed in Order 66. The whole idea seems contrived. A more realistic idea might be that she was spared because Vader sensed potential in her and then she was offered a position as Inquisitor or she would face execution. Or maybe she was a runaway Jedi Apprentice that wanted nothing to do with the Jedi Order before she was offered the opportunity to finish off the last remnants of the Order she never wanted to be a part of. Really though, I think Lucasfilms needs to stop introducing new Jedi that survived Order 66. The original movies made it seem like Luke would be the last chance for the Jedi. He wasn't just a New Hope, he was their _only_ hope. Luke was the last Jedi in a world where the Jedi had totally disappeared. As much as I liked Rebels and Ashoka surviving the Clone Wars, they took away that "isolated" feeling from the original movies, like if Luke doesn't succeed another missing Jedi will come and do it for him.

[@Kevin_Street]

The original version of Reva does sound better. It gives her a real character arc - and not only that, an arc that's connected to Obi-Wan's actions. Like you said, the biggest problem with the Reva we actually got is that her story doesn't really connect with Obi-Wan's. It could be taken out without affecting his story that much. As it is, there's no clear reason why Reva has a change of heart. Near as I can tell, it's just that the unconscious Luke reminds her of herself as a child. But this empathy is extremely specific and doesn't extend to other children like Leia. If the change happened because Obi-Wan explained the true nature of Order 66 and the massacre at the temple (no doubt while they're having a furious light saber duel), it would make much more sense and feel more satisfying. I like the idea of a duel where he's trying to change her mind and not physically kill her, meanwhile her fighting skill would be related to her resistance to what he's saying. As his ideas sink in, Reva's stops fighting so hard, and Obi-Wan wins the duel. He could kill her, but she's finally accepted the truth and he no longer needs to. At that point, maybe she decides to leave Tatooine immediately and go back to Vader, and there's some scene where she asks him to trust her. Not knowing what she has in mind, but feeling her emotions, he reluctantly agrees. She tells Vader she killed Kenobi, and Vader kills her in a rage. Unfortunately since she's dead Vader can no longer prove she's lying, and meanwhile the Emperor has another job for him. Remember that Darth Vader was still subordinate to high ranking officers like Moffs at this time. He has to follow orders and can't give full expression to his desires until the OT. I like the idea that Vader is pretty sure Kenobi is still alive somewhere, but can't justify his beliefs to the Emperor so he can receive leave to go off and search the galaxy. He's too valuable to be let that far off the leash.

[@maxmessling8064]

I saw Solo 4 times at the the movie theater. I enjoyed and still enjoy it despite all the flaws. Solo was not a relative flop, it was a flop, period. I was sad because I knew it would mean the end of the Star Wars stories and we'd be stuck with the sequel trilogy, which I never enjoyed. I have not yet seen The Rise of Skywalker. I was never excited by the sequel trology, even when it was announced. I was way more excited by the spinoff movies.

[@edwardbloecher4563]

Reva knew Anakin was Vader because she read the script. 😆 Sorry that was an homage to Adam Driver's line in The Dead Don't Die.

[@Jagunco]

I feel sorry for Moses Ingram. I've had a snoop through her Wiki and to my untrained eye she's not a experienced actor and she's been handed this role with so many holes in it I feel see just wasn't experienced enough to stop up all the gaps. I hope the controversy around this show doesn't hobble her career.

[@DomingoRiveraJr]

One thing that not many are talking about that I don't like from the Obi Wan show is the fact that now Vader's brilliant idea from the original trilogy to let the enemy escape in order to use a tracker he planted to trace them to their base is now just an idea he stole from Reva. It diminishes his tactical brilliance.

[@AstroNerdBoy]

Basically, this story shouldn't have been told.

[@williamflowers9435]

Reva’s arc should have finished with her performing the Jibai ritual. This ties up the loose end of her knowing about Luke and atones for her sins while paying homage to the samurai tradition the Jedi are partly based on.

[@derworfnet]

I didn't care for either Riva or her subplot but I have to admit that there were two points that *could* have been a perfect end to conclude her story and it kinda pisses me off that neither route was taken: 1.) They could have let Vader kill her in their duel. She tries to get back at her Nemesis, fails but buys time for Ben to escape. 2.) She could hve died from her wounds after deciding to spare Luke, expiring in Ben's arms like Maul did. But to add insult to injury, she gets to live, despite having sustained a would that would have been otherwise fatal *and* knowing Ben's secret. She got away scott-free, despite knowing this and despite the things she did in service to the Empire. Also, when was the last time we got an actual nasty and unapologetically _evil_ female *Villain?* Riva was made a misunderstood sorta-Antihero at the end.

[@amonke4u]

I liked the concept of her character. A younglings who survived the Purge. Who was on the run. Ends up join the empire to kill Vader and the emperor. But the fact she was so weak think she could take on Vader with no plan was just poorly done. Their was no scaling of her power. If she fought the 5th brother and 4th sister and owned them in a dual you would think damn she good. And challenge and almost beat the Grand inquisitor in a training bit. Views could be like ( oh she maybe can take Vader if she crafty enough.) If she does a team up with Kanobi that's when her betrayal should be where Vader and Kanobi are fighting. And let say Kanobi is losing and throw her blade and jt cuts off Vader's leg or arm( he see it but moves to slow. Kanobi start beating him and she gets the last plung into his breathing apparatus. They both think he's dead and she goes on the run revenge complete. Obviously Vader to stubborn to die. Season 2 he hunts Riva and Kanobi

[@Alec11_43]

There’s still plenty of specifics we don’t know for sure about this older draft, but at the very least Vader actually killed her and it doesn’t feature the major complaint many had about Reva knowing who Vader was and Vader implying to have always known that and yet didn’t kill her earlier.

[@Bamiar1789]

I think the version we got was better, except that instead of Reva, I think it should have been Sors Bandeam. Morever, when discovering Luke and his connection to Vader, he should have joined Obi-Wan in his efforts to protect him, not hunted Luke down out of vengeance. Or, perhaps he could have been distrustful of Luke, fearing he might follow his father down the dark path, and that would have been something for Obi-Wan to deal with in season 2.

[@permeus2nd]

7:41 also Vader knows that there is some kind of link between Kenobi and Tatooine, Ankin was a smart guy (honest he was despite been puppeted like a marionette) even if we account for Vader’s mind been clouded with hate he is going to start wondering why his old master chose to stay on his birth planet, out of all the worlds in the galaxy what made him pick this one and from there it wouldn’t be hard to find any link to his old life (if I was Vader Watto would be the first place I sent someone even though the emperor had forbidden it (for some reason) I mean let’s be generous and say and say that searching for info was taking ages because it was been done behind Palatine’s back he would still have been able to find the lars family before a new hope starts.

[@emberfist8347]

Vader wouldn't go on Tatooine even if he was ordered to.

[@paveldatsyuk8268]

I said once kenobi was announced as a show I said it should be 3 movies. 1 right after rots. 1 in the middle. 1 right before anh.

[@RDeathmark]

I haven't seen the series but I swear I thought reva was trilla till this moment

[@raulzarco2063]

Chris Gore from Film Threat is doing a KZbin Series to put LucasFilm on Trial for murder of Star Wars. He is looking for people to argue both sides of various charges. It would be awesome for you to be part of his series. Always enjoy your well thought out arguments. You may want to consider contacting him.

[@chrismoore7365]

Took me a while to realize this, but one of the reasons why I don't like Reva is that the character is a mash-up of two characters (BIPOC also) of Jedi: Fallen Order [Cere & Trilla] their story arcs included. And this made me feel like it was a straight-up copy/paste.

[@plumbussmith]

I think the original way would have fit better.

[@joshuamueller3206]

Probably not the best edit, but just my 2 cents -Kenobi is depressed -Leia gets kidnapped -Kenobi saves her -Inquisitors discover Kenobi -Reva chases, Vader joins the chase -Reva temple flashback -Mini-duel between Vader and Kenobi -Randos save Kenobi and they escape only for Vader and the Inquisitors to catch up -Reva and Kenobi make a temporary alliance -Vader arrives, pulls down ship, kills randos, Kenobi finds new purpose -Reva attacks Vader, Kenobi uses this to escape -Epic duel, but Reva dies in the end. We feel sorry for her. -Empire loses track of the vessel, someone gets force choked to death.

[@MandalorSkyrd]

It's still not great, but it's way better than what we got.

[@Rumple108]

Reva could have heard a clone trooper refer to anakin as Lord Vader