Star Wars and its "lowest common denominator" problem

[@cypher10]

The most ridiculous part about the expanded Universe thing was when Kathleen Kennedy said we don't have any source material to draw from. “There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. we don’t have 800-page novels, we don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be."

[@AndreNitroX]

She lied about everything in that quote

[@AlexYBITW]

" passionate storytellers " Fucking hell. I can't stand her. I really can't.

[@kamikaze5528]

I remember that. It really shows she don't know anything about SW. And even though she said that, there are so many things they shoddily copied from the EU. Han and Leia's kid that turned to the dark side, just as an example.

[@jakecook2375]

You have some excellent points.

[@turkepic3637]

I hate TLJ , but it has some good quotes. Such as: "Amazing. Every word of what you just said , was wrong."

[@reddevilproductions5849]

I think we're very quickly learning that "more is better" is not the correct approach to starwars. All these movies and series being created by a group of directionless executives makes the franchise we once loved feel cold and soulless

[@chasehedges6775]

Indeed

[@yungsteveharv]

i miss the time when mando season 2 and clone wars season 7 were the only things we had in the pipeline. now theres just so much coming that it’s getting tiresome, even when there’s stuff that i normally would be getting excited for.

[@chasehedges6775]

@Castle “Content for content’s sake” -- Critical Drinker

[@The_Rude_French_Canadian]

Quickly? It’s been since 2015 they’ve been releasing turds and they just got worse and worse…

[@raidone7413]

I think more is better. Not because I like the franchise much anymore but it gives me a reason to sit with my family and watch the silly shit go down

[@Kale13000]

Disney treats film making not like an art, but like a plain product. They make films and tv shows the same way people manufacture things like cars and screwdrivers

[@chasehedges6775]

Accurate 💯

[@CMVBrielman]

I’ve never been called a racist sexist bigot by my screwdrivers.

[@triciab1289]

I get your analogy, but I think it is worse than that. Companies making cars and screwdrivers usually make a decent effort to make sure their products are well designed and fulfill their purpose. I can't make that claim for Disney/LucasFilm.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@triciab1289 Agreed

[@Kale13000]

@@triciab1289 true. They’re like a car manufacture that designs cars to break down after a week

[@RevanMartinez]

The Expanded Universe was what turned me from a casual Star Wars fan into a full on hardcore Star Wars Zealot. I feel your sentiments on this one... I got so deep and so lost into those storylines, and spent alot of money and time doing so. It really does feel like a slap in the face that all of it was so suddenly casted aside. I understand if Disney didnt want to keep it consistent with every single book, but to discontinue it entirely and leave the hardcore fans in the dust is insulting. I have still been reading older novels/tracking down older comics and audiobooks to get into. Theres still so many plotlines that didnt get finished *sword of the jedi cough cough*, that even all these years since it was destroyed im still FAR more interested in the EU timeline than the "Canon" timeline.

[@bigorange2082]

Me too. I was hooked after the Heir to the Empire books. I read all the EU content.

[@Hikaru3899]

I understand where they came from in the sense of there was no possible way for them to keep track of it all. What they should’ve done was follow the marvel formula of using the characters and stories as a blue print and adapt them to tv and movies in away that made sense

[@AndreNitroX]

My exact thoughts. For me finding Star Wars EU content is new to me. And I am enthralled by all the characters and stories within the U. Meanwhile Disney has not even gotten one clap from me.

[@jefferyarnold8416]

I'm the same. I enjoyed the Star Wars films, but it was the EU that I fell in love with.

[@darthcaedus9130]

I'm right with you red 3

[@scottr2279]

Remember when we all thought the Kenobi series was going to be a SERIOUS CHARACTER STUDY??🤣🤣

[@michaelknox3715]

It was

[@chasehedges6775]

It wasn’t. It definitely wasn’t.

[@gonhunter3994]

@@michaelknox3715 No

[@gbrow1604]

I still can’t believe how disappointing that series was.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@gbrow1604 Same with BOBF

[@Armoless]

Ignoring the canon books makes even casual fans ignore the books. Don't make it essential, but make it worth it. Make people want to know more and that there are things behind the words being spoken so that folks WANT to read.. thats how you drive sales..

[@AndreNitroX]

Wow that’s beautiful

[@beerosaurusrex]

Although it still has to be done right, people seemed to suddenly have rose-tinted glasses with the EU the moment it was de-canonized, but so much of it was trash, and a very common issue was giving every obscure side/background character some significant role in the storylines of major characters.

[@inblackestnight9256]

@Chosen One Nobody mentioned contradictions. How about trying to read a little of what people are saying before copying/pasting the same post. Plus, George never got around to explaining the Whills in enough detail that would make your comment relevant, even if it were on an applicable thread.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@beerosaurusrex Not to mention things like actual magic, crying mountains and Force-Sensitive droids.

[@AAhmou]

@@Lobsterwithinternet Or a force sensitive mineral piloting a droid body.

[@dereklopez9060]

EU has some of the best Star Wars stories ever told, and it's unfortunate that they decanonized EU just so they can turn Star Wars into a unplanned, unfocused mess that they literally treat the franchise as a joke. The sequel trilogy is an utter betrayal to the characters and themes of Star Wars Episode's 1-6 that George Lucas established. For me, Star Wars still stands as a six episode saga. Episode's 1-6, and nothing afterwards. And it will remain that way in a galaxy far far away.

[@jaysgamingcorner8539]

👏👏👏

[@nathanbeverley247]

I completely agree. I remember discovering some of the novels shortly after Episode 1 came out, and I was hooked. I read every scrap of EU material I could get my hands on, and I loved the expansion of the characters I had gotten to know on screen, as well as meeting new characters on the page. I still think Legacy of the Force is one of the best stories in the entire saga, and after knowing Jacen Solo, Kylo Ren was nothing but a disappointment.

[@AndreNitroX]

Amen

[@Robert_Westwood]

I have rebooted many of the EU stories but I must admit, I considered them to be as canon as Star Trek novels...

[@jaysgamingcorner8539]

@@nathanbeverley247 So true, Kylo is a pale imitation of Jacen.

[@daniell1483]

I hate the "it's for kids" argument. Batman: The Animated Series is also "for kids", but it has captivating stories, complex plots, deep character exploration, etc. A franchise being child-friendly shouldn't be an excuse for a story to be bland, plain, or generic. We could have had a complex, meaningful story from Disney Star Wars that could have appealed to both adults and children, as one does not preclude the other. You can have both. Instead, we got the lowest effort product possible, banking entirely on the power of the brand alone to push the films forward. There was no plan, no direction, as attested to by JJ Abrams himself. The Sequel Trilogy was a colossal failure, even by the standards of the people who made the damn thing. TL;DR: Disney Star Wars could have been good, could have been appropriate for both kids and adults alike; it just isn't though.

[@AndreNitroX]

The best stories are ones that children and adults can enjoy together. Especially since kids will become adults.

[@janeenschultz8502]

I have long enjoyed Batman: TAS, Superman: TAS, and Justice League/Justice League Unlimited. They were all child-friendly and yet still enjoyable for adults. They taught adult lessons in ways that were digestible for kids. My own children love them too.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@janeenschultz8502 Those are God tier shows that both kids and adults can enjoy together.

[@Ariescz]

Batman TAS was made in a different time. when kids were thought of as at least somewhat intelligent.

[@daniell1483]

@@Ariescz And to be fair, they still are. The most intelligent animals in the world are usually compared to the intelligence of human children. Pigs, dogs, cats, crows, etc. all have intelligence close to that of children and do amazing things with it. I think most people underestimate just how damn intelligent humans are, even as children.

[@darthrage8673]

Two things I want to say about people saying Star Wars is for children. 1. Harry Potter started off as a childrens book. But the books and movies gradually matured. The Philosopher’s Stone felt child friendly but Deathly Halllows was very dark. That’s something we Star Wars fans want to see, the story maturing, especially since it’s been around since the 70’s. 2. Most of the younger generation probably won’t be interested in Star Wars because it’s an old movie, interested in something cooler, or want to avoid it completely because they think liking Star Wars labels them as “nerds” or “geeks”.

[@AndreNitroX]

The best aspects of Star Wars are the most dark and mature aspects. The constant warfare. The galactic politics. The real temptation of falling to the dark side. Trying to do the right thing even if it means your death. How’s that for kids!?

[@Chaunwilkerson]

@@AndreNitroX I think those themes still work for kids, Avatar the last Airbender shares most those aspects.

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

All I gotta say is Avatar the Last Airbender was a kids show. Still amazing as an adult. Even has a 9+ rating on IMDB, which is incredibly rare and seen only for shows like GoT or Breaking Bad. And it deserves every point of that score. Plus, by that logic the OT was for kids. So if that's the measure, the new stuff definitely failed.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@Chaunwilkerson agreed if written competently

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

‘Kids’ is such a vague phrase to use anyway. Star Wars was made for Adolences. Using ‘kids’ is a terrible phrase for anyone to throw out as there’s a difference in programing for Sesame Street vs say Cartoon Network and both have ‘child’ oriented programing.

[@sionnadehr3313]

"It's just for kids..." A list of good films made for kids: The Lion King Beauty and the Beast Treasure Planet (I mean, I thought it was great) The Hobbit Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass Harry Potter Howl's Moving Castle Hunchback of Notre Dame (in which arguably the most iconic and covered song features Judge Claude Frollo fantasizing taking Esmerelda against her will and making her a sex slave... yeah, this is a kids movie) The Secret of Nim The first Land Before Time movie (Little Foot's mother gets brutalized by a T-rex then falls down a cliff after being bombarded by rocks and dies in front of her son, the main character). Oh, and The Redwall Series Jacques wrote for his children and grandchildren Oh, and let's not forget The Chronicles of Narnia These were made for kids. They are arguably the most beloved cultural icons today. Just because things are made for kids doesn't mean they can't be written well or contain dark, complex themes.

[@bigblue207]

It’s a logical fallacy. A story being targeted towards a specific audience doesn’t preclude it from being of good quality. In fact one of my big pet peeves is hearing people say “I want a rated R ____ movie”. (Batman, Deadpool, whatever.) It’s basically the exact same argument just talking about the other end of the age group. It implies just the mere presence of blood and nudity and strong language correlates with good quality. Those are just means for storytelling. The context is what gives them power. And funnily enough, when media made “for kids” has that restraint, there are times where it improves the product because they have to take more care with the context and atmosphere they construct. Like regular show for instance, definitely feels like it should’ve been an adult swim show but sometimes the most memorable jokes were because of the censorship and visual gags. Or family guy on the other end, a lot of times their jokes fall flat just because they’re so gaudy and tactless. “Look, gore, laugh”. Their best jokes are the ones that aren’t shock value for shock value’s sake, they use the connotations for a deliberate reason.

[@AndreNitroX]

Excellent list. I still watch most of these animated films today because they were so well told. Secret of nimh and treasure planet are God tier.

[@migueltrujillo8929]

Let's not forget All Dogs Go To Heaven, also a kid's movie, one of my favorites growing up actually. Granted it had a lot of elements most wouldn't consider children appropriate (mob violence, drugs, gambling, drinking, child endangerment, kidnapping, child exploitation, cheating, less than honest protagonists), but it was nevertheless the character arc of the main protagonists and overall themes of love and redemption that made it a touching movie for me.

[@ivymackey9602]

Thumbs up for referencing Redwall!!! 👍🏻

[@Hanoua2]

I'm with you on this one, Obi-Wan did put the break on my enjoyement of star wars. Yeah the sequel trilogy was bad, but I was hoping that things were going to be better after the Mandalorian and the Final season of Clone Wars... But now, I just lost all hope, the higher up at Lucasfilm clearly don't care, so why should I

[@floriskras180]

I’m starting to get more indifferent. Never thought that could happen. But Obi-Wan-Kenobi did the final push. I’m still gonna watch Andor. But with low hopes. Bye the way I stopped watching Marvel show too. To much and with too low quality.

[@coffee-sama]

An argument I’ve heard that made a lot of sense was that Disney didn’t de-canonize the EU for “creative freedom” like they claimed. The real reason was to avoid having to pay royalties to the creators of those stories should they become movies and series. They did this knowing that push come to shove they could just rip off those EU stories, change certain plot points, character names etc. More and more it seems that Disney never had good intentions when it came to Star Wars. Did they plan to destroy it to the degree they have? Probably not but those ill intentions have led us here.

[@Leonfei]

It's funny isn't it? In the EU we had Ben Skywalker. In the ST we get Ben Solo. Funny that.

[@coffee-sama]

@@Leonfei Exactly

[@Vrono21]

That little bit about "not talking shit about star wars" is the exact reason why you're the only one I really watch about star wars now days. Any where else is either one of the two extremes: either super positive of the content and dismissing anyone who criticizes it as a racist, sexist, etc. On the other end, people who are so aggressive in their critique of Disney Wars, that it becomes an exhausting echo chamber pure negativity. You and the community you have built here is a nice balance that I just don't see anywhere else.

[@Hanoua2]

Exactly, I love the more neutral and open approach from Thor

[@mickeybunts]

This comment reflects my thoughts exactly

[@cynicaldragons6239]

Man I completely understand that feeling you have. I have a few friends who like the sequels purely because they want to love Star Wars and don't even want to think about the plot inconsistancies when I bring em up. Nevertheless, I appreciate how honest and real you are about this topic, even when you jsut want to love it. At the end of the day, we all want Star Wars to be good and it does no good when we all fight about it.

[@FTChomp9980]

Star Wars in Disneys hand just isn't the same as George Lucas's before the shills show up and say why I can't criticize Modern Star Wars I'll list everything wrong with it: 1.Canon and Continuity apparently doesn't matter to the writers breaking the lore. 2.New Characters that barely have an arc or goals examples are Rey and Reva. 3.No passion for the Star Wars are these projects smell like they were made by out of touch CEOs and People who don't know what Star Wars is! I've seen Fan Films stay close to the source material and puts passion into it. 4.Erasing Legends yes I know it wasn't canon but it some fans it was but you have to admit The Thrawn Trilogy and Yu Zong Vong Trilogy hold up better then the Sequel Trilogy not to mention better writing to. And 5.Destroying Legacy Characters like Obi Wan Kenobi,Luke Skywalker,Han Solo,Lando Carrision,and Leia I blame the writers on this one. Overall George Lucas took care of Star Wars throughout the years but then Disney came along and abused Star Wars.

[@joshuamueller3206]

I recently read Heir to the Empire for the first time. I was not even born yet when it came out and grew up with The Clone Wars. Not gonna lie, 75% of that book bored me to tears . . . but it was still better written and in the end enjoyable than The Force Awakens (which I used to consider a good Star Wars movie).

[@leafgreensniper13]

Legends was technically part of the Star Wars universe, before the Disney times…

[@evernight1405]

You forgot about how they bringing something from Legends and ruin or killed it. They done that one a lot.

[@DouglasLippi]

It's why Lucas avoided Hollywood like the plague. Hollywood has always and will always suck and be full of awful soulless people. And in the end Lucas sold out. Story over 😪

[@DouglasLippi]

@Chosen One well for Lucas I'd say it was 50/50 about the money/art. For Disney it's more like 95/5. There's no denying that there's a financial aspect to everything really.

[@Tiberon674]

To claim that SW is "just for kids" is a lazy moronic excuse used by casuals and shills. When SW first hit the theaters in 1977 it wasn't just children on those lines that wrapped around the block. In fact the vast majority were adults and the story was the classic heroes journey that appeals to people of all ages.

[@AndreNitroX]

Both my father and uncle were in their 20s when Star Wars came out and they watched it 10X in theatre

[@jenaquinthejester4156]

"Falling out of love with Star Wars because of Obi Wan?" I love democracy. I love the republic. 😂

[@jenaquinthejester4156]

@Chosen One I like the idea of having a lot of variety in terms of Star Wars stories. There's a fanfiction that I'm reading that has the premise that Vader finds out Leia is his daughter when she's still young. So he kidnaps her from the Organas, and trains her to use the dark side. (The story is Legacy by KelliLeanne, if anyone is interested.) Obviously, this didn't happen in any official canon 😆 But it's a fantastic story, and I'm glad it exists. And that's how I tend to feel about Star Wars stories. Interestingly enough, the EU also discussed how in the Star Wars universe, there are also Star Wars films; particularly in the book Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor. From TV Tropes: "None of the stories people tell about me can change who I really am." - Luke Skywalker "Luke frequently bemoans the fact that he is the subject of numerous over-the-top adventure holodramas in-universe that bear little to no resemblance to his actual life." And as long as they're good, I'll always enjoy a wide variety of stories from tons of sources, canon and fanon alike!

[@rigged_]

If the quality of the Obi-Wan series is what we should expect from here on out from Disney Star Wars, then I am afraid Star Wars is truly dead

[@achaudhari101]

It isn’t. People had a bit too high expectations and a mediocre writer.

[@jteric]

@@achaudhari101 we had too high expectations for a show about one of the most beloved characters?

[@Hanoua2]

Obi-Wan and Vader are two of the most important character in the franchise, after ruining Luke, Han, Leia, Lando and Boba Fett, they had to get Kenobi right, but the show is a mess that breaks canon.

[@achaudhari101]

@@jteric Notice how I wasn't biased and included the mediocre writer? To an extent kinda.

[@achaudhari101]

@@Hanoua2 Lando and Boba Fett are not ruined. Kenobi doesn't really break Canon when you look at some contexts going on.

[@filmandpage1138]

I had a feeling Kenobi was going to turn out the way it did. As it is now there isn’t anything they have announced that has gotten me excited. The only thing that gets me excited Star Wars now. Is coming across old paperbacks of the EU, at used books stores.

[@AndreNitroX]

Likewise. The thrill of finding a eu story I didn’t even know about, excites me more than anything Disney lucasfulm announces.

[@eddavis389]

I've been watching 'Light and Magic' on Disney + and the first couple of episodes deals with the very beginning of SW. The excitement, the dreams, the passion and energy that the special effects people put into creating totally new technology and effects -- just so a relatively unknown director with a dream about sci-fi can try it out. Almost fifty years later and Lucasfilm has lost that fire as it churns out the minimum it has to do to keep casual fans interested. The writers and directors with enthusiasm put out some good stuff such as The Mandalorian, but it seems as if the 'good stuff' is getting offered less and less. You are absolutely right -- it is more of an assembly line creation process than telling good stories. I've honestly never felt that the mainline SW material is really for kids at all. They enjoy it, but the better material appeals to plenty of adults as well. The problem is that Lucas was trying to do 2 different things when he made ANH and those that followed. First, he was trying to tell a story he had and that was the right reason to tell it. But after ANH success, the need to make more and more money SLOWLY began changing his focus. You see it in ROTJ with the Ewoks and goofy looking Aliens at Jabba's palace, all that look like they could easily be made into action figures or stuffed animals. Merchandise began to grow too important. Lucas' first wife asked for a divorce from him during the making of ROTJ and he asked her to wait until after the movie was done. After that he was a bit strapped for cash and bitter to what his obsession had done to his marriage. Thus the long delay from 1982 until TPM was released. During that time he figured out that aside from Industrial Lights and Magic making money with special effects for other movies, he could let writers develop story-lines without a lot of control from above. The expanded universe was mostly well written and complex, but Lucas didn't really understand that those books and comics would be as loved by fans as his movies and so he just kept letting them crank them out until they had far more complex story arcs than any of his movies. But by then he'd lost control and when he sold Lucasfilm to Disney, they inherited the mess. But instead of carefully weeding through EU material and trying their best to work out stories that were well-done and respectful of these books and comics, they wanted complete and utter control over the movies and used only material 'owned' by Lucas (which they purchased the rights to) or new stuff made half-heartedly for the movies. That is why the character development of the sequel films are so poor -- they did the bare minimum to sell stuff. I think Filoni alone paid any sort of respect to the EU (and I know he's cut up the Ashoka book) by bringing in Thrawn and a few legends characters and trying to develop characters with more depth. Rebels might be thought of as a kid's series by some, but at least they were able to pull Thrawn (in a watered down version) into the canon. Can this mess be fixed? I think the solution is complex but logical -- first, use the World Between Worlds as a means to cancel out the sequel trilogy -- have Ashoka (or someone) jump to where Palpatine had his clone that his 'spirit(?)' entered into and have her destroy that clone before Palpatine can use it, and let his spirit fade away. That would cancel out Snoke, the temptation of Ben Solo, the destruction of Luke's Jedi Temple and the rise of the First Order. Rey could remain on the junk planet, Finn could live as a normal man, not become a stormtrooper. Han Solo and Luke Skywalker -- and Princess Leia-- would not have to die. The slate would be wiped clean. If they did this, then they could sit down with THE FANS, Lucas and Filoni and figure out what sort of future going forward would be logical and interesting. With Carrie Fisher gone and the original cast growing older and older, it may be that they can't have movies featuring these beloved characters at all, and if that is the case, that is okay. Either way, Lucasfilm needs to make continuity and story-telling their primary objective. When they decide this, move forward in time, don't tell a story 10 years out then tell the backstory, that only screws up continuity. Move progressively forward with the tales, don't let the comics tell any of these tales until after they appear on screen, or let writers and comics work on SW story-lines not connected to the major themes and prohibit them from closely linking them in with the main story lines, without a long serious discussion over how these insertions would effect the movement forward of the themes. Going back and forth in time, inserting things or taking things out of the time-line , or putting in series like Kenobi just to sell Disney+ subscriptions is stupid and just causes problems. Don't let writers think their work is going to be canonical and then later retcon something. Keep a close eye on what is being written and before it is released, figure out how that tale fits in with everything else and make changes to it if necessary, BEFORE IT IS RELEASED. Then, once a book or comic has the official canonical blessing, then KEEP IT CANON, with no exceptions. When a tale is told, don't go back and try to make money telling tales about periods of the character's life in between other periods. Move forward into the future, hundreds, even thousands of years later and tell those tales. A tight rein on who writes or produces what, and how each work fits with the other work should be the most important job at Lucasfilm. Cookie-cutter series with half-developed characters won't keep the fans forever.

[@AndreNitroX]

Well said

[@darko-man8549]

Your GoT argument about complexity - it’s exactly what I wanted from Obi-Wan So much of that was just “eh, it’s there, they needed some content” - once again, it’s evidence that they just wanted an Obi vs Vader fight without actually considering its impact People aren’t really talking about the Obi Wan series. It should be being discussed and theorised.

[@starwarsvault4154]

Sequels had no gameplan it would have been nice to see what they could’ve put together with one vision and one director for the trilogy

[@ellicel]

If “knowing how the story ends” were truly a problem, there wouldn’t be so many books adapted for films. Plus, if they’re targeting the general audience, most of those people wouldn’t have read the books anyway.

[@brandenmanuel2037]

Star Wars used to be my number one franchise of all time Now it has become something comparable to minions and transformers movies Just something for the lowest common denominator

[@achaudhari101]

Well that’s stupid.

[@emberfist8347]

@@achaudhari101 You have seen the decline of Star Wars.

[@achaudhari101]

@Ember Fist Yeah I have since I was young seeing Karens bash the Prequels. This fandom is no better.

[@bluesrocker91]

Stop letting Disney control how you feel about it... Just do like I did and draw a line under it. In my mind anything produced since Disney bought the franchise is not canon. If you prefer, just cherrypick the bits you like and dislike. But whatever you do, don't let a soulless corporation tell you you must accept this or that as canon, and must now disregard the EU just because they say so... They didn't create it, make it a success or grow up with it. Ultimately they don't really care about the franchise and what it means to you or I. Only that it makes them money. If Disney could rake in as much money from making furniture, then that's what they would be known for, and Disney World would be a rival to IKEA.

[@emberfist8347]

@Chosen One Except that is not the case. The Star Wars story is told from R2-D2’s perspective.

[@Kilthan2050]

I remember when i was excited for all things Star Wars. I saw episodes 2 and 3 multiple times. I saw the OT special edition rereleases in theaters, i even saw the 3D release of TPM. I played games, read books and comics, bought toys. Now… i just don’t care. My wife has had us watch Mando, Fett, and bad batch, because she knows i loved star wars and hates seeing me so disinterested in something i loved (the same has happened with DC comics and their films.) I always reply, “Hey, i still have Godzilla.” At least when TOHO does a bad Godzilla thing its the exception, not the rule.

[@achaudhari101]

And what made you apathetic now?

[@emberfist8347]

@@achaudhari101 Crappy stories.

[@achaudhari101]

Subjective outside the Sequels.

[@A1985Jonesy]

I’m getting kinda tired of Star Wars at the moment. Been a fan my whole life, grew up with the prequels and mainly clone wars. It just feels like we have these same rational conversations about what needs to happen and how Disney screwed everything over. No matter what we say or feel it never changes anything and they keep cranking out half baked shows and movies like kenobi and the sequels.

[@abandonallhope.1040]

There was a KZbinr formerly named IdeasofIceandFire so it's not difficult to see which franchise he was a fan of. The man was utterly devoted to Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire...but after years of disappointment, he let go of the franchise and found his niche with Dune. Perhaps you ought to do the same and let Star Wars go because even if Andor is good, it doesn't help if everything else is subpar.

[@achaudhari101]

No.

[@knightonart8886]

Once a Star Wars fan, always a Star Wars fan my friend. Who cares whether or not the new material is any good, we will always have the original films from Lucas and the old expanded universe to enjoy. I can't believe how sad it is that people say they aren't fans anymore because they don't like the current state of things.

[@ganymedehedgehog371]

For the time being I think there’s still conversations to be had. It may be fair to get ready to leave if andor is a failure, but there’s still a conversation.

[@FTChomp9980]

I'm still a fan of Star Wars just not Disney Star Wars. I did watch Farscape and Firefly a chance and I would say became fans of that and I reccomend it to Star Wars Fans if they want to watch other Space Operas for more variety both are awesome.

[@WilliamMoses355]

Of course we should stay fans of the parts of Star Wars and other franchises we still enjoy, even if we don't like some things in their other, more recent incarnations. (Looking at you, Lord of the Rings, Star Trek and Dungeons & Dragons!) It's quite a different question whether a content creator should stay focused on particular franchises when they don't care for most of the recent stuff. One might have already said one's peace about the older stuff, and not want to spend so much time griping and picking nits in pursuit of views.

[@jenaquinthejester4156]

On a more serious note, I understand how you feel about the Kenobi series. For me, it killed Disney Star Wars. Not that I expect everyone else to feel that way, but I do. I just hope that, no matter what form it comes in, Star Wars keeps being something that makes you happy. Whether it's movies, shows, books, video games, or even fanfiction; Star Wars has a lot to offer. Have a great day, Thor 👍 Always cool to watch your videos.

[@achaudhari101]

Your apathy and quitting Star Wars is dumb as hell.

[@AlexYBITW]

The Kenobi show killed Disney Star Wars for you ? You had to wait 2022 and the Obi-Wan Kenobi series for that ? Disney Star Wars killed itself years ago, starting with that farce that was The Force Awakens.

[@achaudhari101]

@Alex'Y Well you quit so easily that's why considering there has been better DSW since then.

[@jenaquinthejester4156]

@@AlexYBITW @Alex'Y I hear what you're saying 😆 I guess you could say it was a slow death for me. I hated The Force Awakens when it came out in theatres, didn't want to see The Last Jedi (only caved because my best friend wanted to go), and refused to see The Rise of Skywalker. I tried reading books from other time periods covered by Disney Star Wars (such as the Padme novels) in the hope that they would tell good stories in their own right, only to find them bland at best, and irritating at worst. My brother coerced me into watching The Mandalorian with him, which I found pretty forgettable, but not actively insulting. Kenobi was the only Disney Star Wars project I was hyped over, even after so many disappointments. It had so much potential! We got to see Hayden and Ewan Mcgregor again! We could see live action Clone Wars flashbacks! And Thor's idea about their duel taking place through force vision was epic. Not to mention, the only part of Rogue One I liked was seeing Vader tear through the rebels. I had long hoped for a Kenobi movie, with a side plot being Vader hunting down any Jedi that survived order 66. But then the show started. Every week I just kept hoping it would get better, and it failed to. I would have stopped watching, but my family was watching it together, and we'd even marathoned episodes 1 - 6 in preparation. And at the end of the Kenobi series, it hit me. I had spent six weeks and six hours dragging out a terrible story. The Last Jedi, for all it's faults, was over in one two hour block. This strung me along for weeks, and I went along with it. I felt stupid, and used. And the worst part of the show to me is, Kenobi utterly failed. He failed to protect Luke, and his achievement was handed off to a diverse female character. The show was made to prop up this obnoxious character, and I watched it. I should've known better. I should have learned by now that, in my opinion, Disney Star Wars has added nothing good to Star Wars. Only destroyed. That's not to say other people should feel the way I do, this is solely my experience. So, I'm done. I got rid of my Disney Star Wars books, and dived into the EU. I'm on The Courtship of Princess Leia right now, but my favorite will always be Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover. Thanks for listening, it feels good to say this 😂

[@turkepic3637]

@@achaudhari101 My man defendin' DSW since 2016

[@gregorylieber8362]

One consistent canon... "Lies.. Deception.. Borgullet!!"

[@bennytenny4662]

They need to let go of the sequel trilogy and make it non-canon

[@bobbymauro3721]

We feel you Thor, totally appreciate your content and agree that wishful thinking won’t right the wrongs. Have faith and MTFBWY!

[@J_GamerSP]

"Give maximum creative freedom" and then copies Episodes 4 and 5. Hilarious.

[@RevanMartinez]

And then copies Dark Empire

[@Ihavethetouch]

@@RevanMartinez And does it far worse.

[@austinmitchell2652]

One way to escape "talking shit" about new star wars would be to focus your channel on highlighting really good works from any era or continuity of star wars! I would love getting recommendations for classics or hidden gems from throughout the years.

[@TatsuMurasaki]

I agree. I've only poked a little bit in the Expanded Universe, but what little I have heard and read.. it is LEAGUES better that anything Disney put out.

[@chasehedges6775]

Revenge Of The Sith is still better than anything from Disney, really. I miss George Lucas.

[@chasehedges6775]

The Mandalorian has been the sole exception, honestly

[@TatsuMurasaki]

@@chasehedges6775 I actually liked Rogue One when I saw it.. and yes. The Mandolarian is a lovely exception. I honestly haven't watched anything beyond Mando S2

[@chasehedges6775]

@@TatsuMurasaki 💯

[@realJoeMavro]

What have you read so far? And would you like some recommendations from a long time EU fan?

[@FrekinSmart]

Thor... this video hit the closest to home out of your many informative videos on star wars. Star wars is depressing. Much of Disney star wars is just... there... like you said. I'd like to see big changes or evolutions for the property as well

[@AndreNitroX]

Thor every word you said right now is how I feel. I just became a die hard fan for the EU, while none of the new Disney content has engrossed me at all. If anything it is making a mockery of Star Wars and deterring new fans, when the older stories would have found their audience.

[@TheStryker247]

This is why the Video Games and Clone Wars are goated

[@bigorange2082]

Cloning…an ancient magic only the Sith knew. There was literally a Clone war. “They fly now??” Have they never seen Mandalorians before?”

[@Psycho695]

Also, if only the Sith knew those secrets, how the fuck did Poe learn it? I'd rather have a random screen crawl explain his return, rather than have that line ever exist....

[@DeeperIntoTheUnknown]

"Have they never seen Mandalorians before?” Have they never seen any Jet Trooper that has been around since the Republic?

[@politicscommentator]

I wholeheartedly agree with you that the sequel films should have been based on the Expanded Universe novels. Had they done that, they would have pleased the long term fans like myself and have the opportunity to introduce Star Wars to the new fans.

[@RevanMartinez]

Yes! I wanted to see Lukes New Jedi Order/Kyle Katarn/ Mara Jade/ Jacen/ Jaina solo SO BAD

[@achaudhari101]

And have that be unoriginal?

[@emberfist8347]

@@achaudhari101 like how original the Disney films were rehashing the OT

[@achaudhari101]

@@emberfist8347 So there is no winner here. You proved my point that this fandom is corrupted.

[@emberfist8347]

@@achaudhari101 No he is asking for good content that is original and respects the source material. That is hardly a tall order.

[@itznotdatserious99]

Disney's Star Wars (storytelling) is clunky, disjointed and uninspired. They have gross disrespect for what Lucas did. The irony of that is KK essentially saying that she was going to show respect for what GL has done is insultingly laughable. As a Star Wars fan, all I want is a good story and continuity. They (KK and crew) show disrespect to those who aren't all that familiar with the lore. For me, I disassociate myself from the Disney part of Star Wars. There's a saying, if someone show who they are, believe them. Disney has lied about there intentions with this IP for years. So, why would I want to support any of their upcoming projects? Knowing that for years, they have been producing bad or very mediocre movies and shows (with the exception of the Mandalorian and Rogue One).

[@achaudhari101]

Funny considering I had to listen to Karens all throughout my childhood say that the Prequels should never have been made. You give nothing specific on what they have to do and maybe that’s why the shows are so “mid” apparently.

[@emberfist8347]

@@achaudhari101 What they had to do Karen was respect the source material.

[@achaudhari101]

@@emberfist8347 I'm a Karen yet the fandom and those rant channels don't like Karens? Even you act like one to me.

[@emberfist8347]

@@achaudhari101 How is asking for someone to respect the source material Karen behavior?

[@scottr2279]

"Take your weapon...strike the EU down with all of your hatred and your journey toward the Disney Side will be COMPLETE!!!!"

[@achaudhari101]

I mean Lucas was doing that for a while so I guess he’s a part of the Disney Side? EU wasn’t going to be adapted.

[@emberfist8347]

@@achaudhari101 He still respected the EU. He didn’t strike it down.

[@TheEverythingParanormalShow]

Thor, when George Lucas made Star Wars he combined his favorite things: Samurais, WWII aerial dogfights, swashbuckling, and more. He told the story from what a 12 to 14 year old would love, even saving a princess. He has talked about this in behind the scenes videos, but it doesn't mean he wasn't trying to appeal to an adult audience...thus the dismemberment and the empire burning people down to their skeleton type of things. Lucas captured a timeless adventure told for generations to come. He tapped into an overall feeling that allowed so many people to relate to. Now, it seems as if this new era of Star Wars disregards those feeling of adventure for politics and money. I know why you are upset, I've been there since the beginning, it's hard watching the bastardization and death of something so beloved to me. And just to clarify, I'm good with change and I know how to adapt, but I also know storytelling and this new Star Wars just can't do it.

[@NickyRomano94]

Dude I really enjoy your channel and hope you keep making videos on Star Wars. You reassure me that I’m not falling out of love with Star Wars because “I don’t get it anymore” or whatever. I bet many others can say the same and we’re here with ya! Let’s hope the future brings better things for us to geek out to again. May the force be with you friend.

[@coolcats4summer82]

I feel ya’. I find that the more the Disney-era iterations of Star Wars come up lacking, the more I dive back into pre-Disney Star Wars era books, movies and shows - re-reading and re-watching material to remind myself that there was, in fact, a time when the vast majority of Star Wars content was original, inventive and remarkable.

[@AndreNitroX]

The best Star Wars content is still in the EU

[@donaldsmith8648]

me and my son can't wait to see your part 3 of Obi Wan Kenobi

[@suitandtieguy]

The idea of a "sequel trilogy" was a mistake. All Disney had to do was hand one or two directors a year a medium sized pile of money, point them at the EU, and say "pick something you can make with this budget" and they would have had a pretty good money printing machine for the next 20 or 30 years.

[@AndreNitroX]

In a world that makes sense this would have happened.

[@suitandtieguy]

@@AndreNitroX we don't live in a world that makes sense. Remember what Lucas called The Mouse?

[@Frosenborg]

I don't necessarily think that the idea of a sequel trilogy was a mistake, it was George's idea and I would've loved to see what his vision for it was. The mistake was that Disney didn't follow up on his idea. They should've let George oversee the sequel trilogy and let him finish his story, this approach would've given Disney time to plan out their future Star Wars content.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@suitandtieguy yep he compared them to slave drivers

[@jorijoestar4998]

I'm surprised people don't look at the anime/manga formula more. Considering how popular its become world wide, it's obvious it works. Most anime is taken panel by panel from the Manga. People love seeing the Manga be brought to life and casual fans can enjoy the anime for what it is. If an anime fan likes the anime enough, it can sway them to read/buy the Manga.

[@Keyblader7762]

I’m with you Thor. Ever since TBOBF ive been having to convince myself to find a reason to pick up Star Wars again. I haven’t finished it nor Kenobi; I havent found the motivation to. This is a place I never could have imagined myself years ago, where I would go rabid at the mere mention of a new star wars show or video game. The sequels made it hard to keep faith but now after Kenobi its harder than ever. I’ve basically tuned out of Star Wars for a long time.

[@greyworld6242]

This was a good video and it was really needed. Good work.

[@Loki_Yogi]

This channel is the only one I'll watch whenever I need to "re-center" my thoughts and opinions about whichever new show is currently out. Most of the time, I'll really enjoy the Star Wars show I'm watching when it 1st airs. Sometimes I'll recognize plot holes and other problems in the moment, but usually it's after the viewing and I have time to take it all in, where I realize the big or small inconsistencies. Which is when I normally will come here to see if Thor has mentioned the same things I saw when watching the show. The silver lining for me, is that I'm usually left with more optimism about the future of Star Wars after watching one of Thor's videos. At the very least, I feel better informed and confident of my knowledge within the Lore. 🙏

[@ShavierTheHedgehog]

I heard someone say: "You old fans should leave and let kids have fun instead". Yeah, after investing 20+ years reading, watching and playing games from my fav franchise, I will /s

[@cbrreezzyy69]

When you stand on the shoulders of giants to claim you’re tall, eventually you’ll lose balance and fall. The higher you fall from, the harder the impact will be when you reach the very bottom. On the long, slow journey to to the bottom, all you’ll be able to do is think about all the mistakes you’ve made, and there won’t be anything you can do or say to stop the inevitable impact.

[@TjarpDex]

The Mandalorian gave me renewed hope in the new Star Wars era but when they dropped the ball in Book of Boba and Kenobi as you said "just being there" I no longer feel like a Star Wars fan, that's quite soul crushing for me personally since I've been a fan ever since growing up with the prequel trilogy, I've been thinking about getting this really cool Sith inspired bone motif sleeve tattoo for years (I've had the link to it saved in my bookmarks for quite a while) but nowadays I'm no longer so sure about getting it inked...

[@Mr.Casual4004]

I've been watching alot of your videos lately rediscovering my love for Star Wars Franchise (Legends) and I resonate with that Star Wars should be more then just around!

[@JaminBro]

Star Wars was one of the first epic stories I fell in love with as a child. I dug ibto everything I could in order to be more immersed in the universe. I played Rogue Squadron games, I played a game called Star Wars Rebellion which first introduced me to characters from the EU, and then I eventually started buying books and reading them. I was 12 or 13 when I first read Rogue Planet and then discovered Heir to the Empire and the rest of the EU. I'd constantly borrow them from my towns library in the hopes of seeing more of the story unfold. It was because of the movies I dug into everything else. The original story inspired me. The same happened with LOTR. I watched the first movie without any prior knowledge. I instantly fell in love with the lore and the characters. And I was inspired to learn more about the world that Tolkien created. Back in the 90s, and early 2000s, when I was growing up, there wasn't much in competition for entertainment. But today, and I find the same with books and video games, there is an overflow of content. There are some awesome video games out there I'd love to play, but I don't have the time to get into them. Because for me, at least, it isn't just playing the game, it's about being immersed in the universe. As an aspiring author, I also notice this. There are so many books being published nowadays that it feels harder and harder to be discovered. And even if I do get published, will I even be noticed because of the massive volume of stories out there. I say that to point out that Star Wars won't be able to continue on the name for much longer. If it keeps putting out mediocre content, then something else will replace it. And that is heart breaking as a Star Wars fan.

[@CodyCEngdahl]

I really love your passion and these well-throughout videos. I saw Star Wars when I was six in 1977 in the theater. There was absolutely nothing like it before. I loved the mystery of the "well-lived-in" world. I feel like the more they filled in the blanks, the less mysterious and compelling I found it. Frankly, other than Rogue One, I haven't liked anything Star Wars since the original trilogy. It's just overdone.

[@achaudhari101]

Oh great, another Prequel hater.

[@CodyCEngdahl]

@@achaudhari101 yeah, sorry, I can’t dig them.

[@scifigeezer5271]

@@achaudhari101 the prequels are too mediocre to summon up an emotion as strong as hate. More "meh". Your incessant and immature whining about the prequels is getting kinda pathetic at this point.

[@achaudhari101]

@@scifigeezer5271 Whining over the fact that they are better now? Give me a break.

[@Maximo10101]

Watch Auralnauts version of Obi-Wan called Larry. Much better that Disney. While your at it if you haven't seen their entire star wars parody, you will be thankful you did ;)

[@a.jordan9288]

Oddly enough Obi-wan series revived my SW fanboy phase. Just bought some novels and I'm waiting to get his new hot toys. Show had flaws true but overall I had good time which didn't happened in a good while. Mando is good but idk it never connected with me.

[@darklord884]

You want to know the best aspect of Disney Star Wars in my opinion? The fact it gives people like you the motivation to do analysrs and rewrites. That in the people who aren't content to keep quiet about its many flaws, this mishandled run of movies, series and others, inspired a willingness to stand up and create something better and more meaningful even since it came from 'us' fans instead of a megacorporation. That part I do admire. I feel like my eye for detail has been sharpened a bit and my wish for quality has been enhanced by all the analysis videos and rewrites I have seen. And this is also 'because of Kenobi' ironically, or rather, the rewrite of the series you have started. In short, thank you for analysing the existing stuff but more for creating your own amazing version of these stories and I am excited to hear more about both your Kenobi series and any further projects.

[@supermodestmouse]

You hit the nail on the head here. I agree with you completely - the new model for shows and IP seems to be to cater to "new" fans; however, they then skew the material toward them and alienate the hardcore fanbase that has carried them for a while. And not to gatekeep, but there's a reason why star wars stayed relevant even before the prequels - it wasn't the casual fan who watched it once and thought it was fun. It was the hardcore fanbase that bought 1000 storm troopers for their diaorama, that wrote fan fiction to continue the lore, that created armor and helmets, that made screen accurate cosplay, that build working droids. And I'm willing to bet the merch numbers still reflect that. That most ardent defenders of the ST probably own a few shirts, a few funkos, maybe even bought the movies, but obviously aren't buying rose tico, smoke, Rey figures. Like you, I want to like what they're putting out. I've always loved comics and star wars and this nerdy zeitgeist before it was mainstream. I got beat up and teased and had my stuff stolen/broken as a kid because I was into it. But just being part of the IP isn't enough. And it feels like a total betrayal to pander to this new, as you say, lowest common denominator. Disney seems to believe quantity > quality and it's led to me calling it disposable content. You watch it once and then never again. Yeah, I've watched the shows but it's with a feeling of dread "what are they going to ruin this time" feeling. But I won't be watching them ever again. The only Disney era movie I've seen more than once is rogue one. However, in my may 4th marathon, I watch 1-6 and then rogue one. I've burned through the clone wars more times than I can count. I've seen 1-6 more times than I can remember. But all this disposable content? Barely watched once - will not be watching again. (Same with this new phase of MCU disposable content).

[@QuestionMan]

I remember that sinking feeling the day I realized all the Star Wars trivia I had accumulated up to that point, all the stories and lore I had enjoyed and treasured, had been effectively Alderaan-ed.

[@brycetheice7908]

Heir to the Empire was a classic. It was also my first Star Wars EU book and it really got me to the library as a kid constantly looking for new Star Wars books to read.

[@oilerfreak]

You have taken all my thoughts and turned them into a vlog without me knowing it. You have spoken the most honest and truthful vlog to date. This is why you are truly the BEST Star Wars Vlogger out here. I could go on for hours but you have summed it up as perfectly as anyone can. It is part of my core and always will be. At 52 you know how I feel SO well it is amazing. And in all things SW I always repeat this, "Long Live Legends"! Let Disney be Disney but we all know where the real SW went. I truly miss it. The day it was announced the the EU was dead my wallet shut and I have not bought a peice of SW print since. I have over a dozen LARGE boxes of comics still un-opened from my comic shop in the city. Just couldnt give my money to "them". So I will stop ranting and sadly admit I do watch and buy SW merch. I have the token baby yoda aka Grugu stash and the like but hey I'm a junkie at best. Thanks again Thor for reading my mind and putting it on KZbin. Take care.

[@sarahhawke9637]

Thor I can hear the disappointment in your voice! I had exactly the same feeling a while back, though for me it was actually just before Obi-Wan. On a lark, I listened to Heir to the Empire narrated by Marc Thompson (they redid the audible versions about 10 years ago) and it reminded me how much we've lost. Thompson is an incredible narrator (you should really give them a listen if you can), but it was so weird that at the end I mostly felt sadness for the mediocre crap we get now instead. Say what you will about the Zahn books, but it was at least clear there was actual thought put into things and the universe.

[@sigler00]

Thank you for this video. "Just there" is a perfect description for the Obi wan series I will use going forward. I largely echo your thoughts and take comfort in seeing EU characters like Thrawn entering official canon little by little

[@JohnnyLodge2]

Game of Thrones didnt just run out of book. They also decided to depict characters they didnt like different than how they are in the books. For example Stannis, best character and choice for king, in the books rides to rescue of castle black because he realizes there is a threat there and he needs to save the kingdom but in the books he just shows up with golden company and rides wildlings down during the peace negotiations

[@benstorellibrincat9976]

Even if you know the ending I would argue that there something about seeing a story at the cinema that just reading in a book can’t capture

[@sunduncestudios5124]

I enjoy your videos and your perspective. Continue to make them and I’ll continue to watch them.

[@joshseveck5040]

There should have been one person with one vision for how everything in Star Wars was going to play out. Someone like Kevin Fiege but the Star Wars equivalent

[@TipsySpinda]

Lately, I've been getting my star wars fix by playing The Old Republic mmo. I run a Mandalorian guild called Clan Odekk, where me and my online friends and acquaintances role play as a Mandalorian Clan. Don't get me wrong, I still watch the new stuff, but with the delays and cancelations with Disney lately, it's hard to be as hyped for new content as I used to be

[@jaysgamingcorner8539]

Totally agree, SWTOR is fantastic. I've been playing loads of that lately too.

[@TipsySpinda]

@@jaysgamingcorner8539 well if you're ever on the Satele Shan server, hmu! I'm on the imp side as Odekk, and the pub side as Vorten Odekk

[@jaysgamingcorner8539]

@@TipsySpinda I'm on star forge, but may jump over sometime.

[@TipsySpinda]

@@jaysgamingcorner8539 anytime

[@matthewterry9413]

Videos like this are why you are the last man standing when it comes to Star Wars channels that I actually still subscribe to. My entire KZbin feed used to be Star Wars subs, you’re the only one left actually gets Star Wars… Even Star Wars theory gets out but happy about new Disney projects sometimes and honestly that’s enough for me to und sub. I can listen to videos about the EU, a.k.a. real Star Wars all day long.

[@shiptj01]

Saying that Star Wars is for kids is like saying that music is for kids just because most musicians learn an instrument when they are children.

[@chasehedges6775]

Star Wars is a shadow of its former self. Just depressing, honestly. Revenge Of The Sith is still the the only piece of Star Wars content that I can still watch and enjoy.

[@achaudhari101]

Do you ever not feel hopeless on anything in Star Wars?

[@abandonallhope.1040]

@@achaudhari101 You're honestly a creep; quit bothering people over their SW opinions. Do you spend all day responding to comments in lieu of an actual job?

[@thesurvivorssanctuary6561]

@@achaudhari101 Yeah, I play Jedi Academy and KotOR 1+2 all the time! I still adore the EU, and honestly, I'm just waiting for Disney to hit the "Eureka!" moment, and realize that the "toxic fans" are the ones to cater to; as we generated the most cash for Lucasfilms, and are the primary purchasers of toys and collectables. If they realize that, then they can start trying to turn the casuals into hardcore fans; Like Darksouls does to casual gamers.

[@achaudhari101]

I wasn’t asking you, I was asking Chase.

[@abandonallhope.1040]

@@achaudhari101 you’ve spammed my comments for the last several weeks so I can respond to you whenever I want you troll

[@aPlateOfGrapes]

You tell it like it is, and I appreciate that. What boggles my mind is that if they just made things that fans want to see, they would make boatloads of cash.

[@kenbrockfarm8656]

Like you've said, if it's a good story, it will make money. People love to consume good media, when they can get it. I wish Disney would put in the same effort to the SW setting that they have all their other franchises

[@Robert_Westwood]

Speaking to your assessment of how the sequel trilogy was disjointed, I think that we could've seen better if Favreau and Filoni had been selected, willing, or both, to develop the sequel trilogy. They knew George Lucas well, so I'm guessing they would've known the direction that he would've wanted any sequel Skywalker Saga to go. Much like the way Rick Berman was able to successfully grow Star Trek after Gene Roddenberry left the franchise while keeping it fundamentally true to its roots...

[@gpcovenant]

Obi-wan was my only hope. Only in this version the Empire won.

[@kevinbecker1438]

I agree with your rant. I think that they need to do new characters like Mando. If they’re not going to be true to original characters they should stop. I also agree to make us think and feel for storylines. Well that’s all I have keep ranting cuz I am too

[@jk6919]

I was a Star Wars fan from the moment I saw that ship cross the screen in the theater all those years ago. 4 rooms in my house were all decorated in Star Wars, I even had Star Wars business wear for work. Every Christmas my family was doomed to get a Star Wars gift, and knew to get me Star Wars. We watched something Star Wars daily, and books toys, etc. But then Disney went off the rails, especially with Star Wars. So I stopped-cold turkey. I don't even watch Star Wars related KZbin videos. I only watch yours to support your channel. While I appreciate all the years of fun and entertainment from George Lucas, I am enjoying saving money now too. 😄 Don't let this get you down. It's ok to step away, or to just focus on the EU that you enjoyed. I'm sure a lot of fans would enjoy exploring the EU with you.

[@GrechStudios]

I really appreciate your candor Thor, and I’m sorry you’re feeling down about Star Wars. I think all of us Star Wars fans have had to deal with at least some disappointments from Disney by now, so I can say that there’s not only a welcoming community here for you, but you’ve actually been able to cultivate that very community yourself. I watch the new Star Wars shows, but otherwise largely don’t engage with it, except for your channels. It has been part of the healing for me, so thank you for that. I hope you’re able to sort out those bad feelings from the good ones. Maybe spend some quality time with the classic stuff? I’m sure you’re forced to think about all the modern stuff all the time. I also found what helped me heal from my disappointment with Disney Star Wars was learning that a large part of my Star Wars experience was always around my family. And in a way, my love of Star Wars lives with them. That’s one reason I like your other channel. The interaction between you and your wife reminds me that those kinds of interactions keep Star Was alive. Keep up the good work! And I hope you find the Star Wars you’re looking for 🙂

[@tarrickmerdev2324]

Star Wars ended on that fateful day that Disney cancelled the EU. What exists now is not Star Wars, but simply bad fanfiction. That is what I came to realize. I still enjoy the EU and have gone back to re-read some of the novels that I really liked or haven't read since I was young and I've read some of the novels that I never got to. I have also introduced friends to the EU novels in the Disney Star Wars era. What Disney does with new movies and TV shows doesn't matter because I know that the real Star Wars is still documented in all those 150 or so novels sitting prominently on my bookshelves. It's sad that we'll never see a screen adaptation of Thrawn or Mara Jade or Bevel Lemelisk or Exar Kun as they should have been. But in the end, we know that those stories are the real Star Wars and that, no matter what Disney does, those stories can never be touched. As Zarkov said in Flash Gordon, "They couldn't wipe those things away. You can't beat the human spirit." What I would love to see is a resurgence of EU content done by fans themselves. Most of the EU was created in a period without, or at least with very limited, KZbin or social media or widespread independent commentary. Perhaps it's out there and I just haven't seen it, but I would love to see creators doing video series covering various aspects of EU novels, doing reviews and commentary on many of the books throughout the EU.

[@brandont.6111]

I enjoy your hearing your viewpoint. I agree with many of the things you say and how you feel. Please don't stop. I am planning to never unsubscribe.

[@darthconquest1046]

Serious subjects like this deserve a more serious tone. I say that unironically. The people who watch this channel (I imagine) were probably born in the late 70s to early 80s and are passionate about Star Wars. I wonder if Disney has a social media person who's job it is to watch content like this and figure out how did they screw up this badly.

[@AndreNitroX]

I’m 20 and I agree with everything Thor says.

[@darthconquest1046]

@@AndreNitroX You are as wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@darthconquest1046 Thank you my friend, may the force be with you.

[@kaleomariz1000]

If you think about it; from a business perspective it’s much better to cater to casual fans and kids than to hardcore fans. Hardcore fans will be more demanding towards what they are consuming. So pleasing hardcore fans is harder. My brother is a casual fan and he liked the sequels and the ObiWan series. But he didn’t care to watch the more cartoon series though. (Casual fans want big productions and especial effects). Whereas hardcore fans they will swallow a low budget production as long as it’s properly well written.

[@jesserodgers5625]

It certainly is EASIER to cater to casuals. I'm not sure it makes better business sense. These entertainment entities' FIRST mistake is thinking they have to CATER to ANYONE. If they just focused on making quality product, EVERYONE would be happy. "The Mandalorian" did it. No reason why they can't KEEP doing it.

[@kaleomariz1000]

@@jesserodgers5625 I totally understand! If the Disney’s approach to Star Wars is to seek to please EVERYBODY Star Wars will eventually become a stale and bland franchise. (This is what happened to the Mortal Kombat game series which had the coolest game backstory and lore; but in the past decade Netherealm studios just wants to make money and create fighting games exciting for casual gamers and not fans of the game lore. Which to me made mortal kombat lore bland, repetitive and a bit cliché in some elements). Anyway back to the subject of Star Wars… on the long run, seeking to please just the casual audience, eventually the franchise loses ‘its soul’ to the point that in the future the franchise will become a “dry well” with nothing interesting to offer.

[@kaleomariz1000]

@@jesserodgers5625 I forgot to say this: why are Disney executives willing to run the risk of turning Star Wars into a bland and uninspiring franchise by creating things that are cheap and soulless? Because this is the culture of American Corporate capitalism. Make as much money as you can before you retire; even if it means making decisions that will compromise the company on the long run. Kathleen Kennedy made mega-bucks out of The Force Awakens. It was an exciting and cool movie for general audiences. But cheap and unoriginal, Star Wars fans deserved a much better start for a sequel trilogy. But K. Kennedy made her money already! If the Star Wars franchise suffers in the future because of her decisions, it’s some other future executive’s problem to solve, not hers!

[@jesserodgers5625]

@@kaleomariz1000 True to all the above.

[@oscarespino893]

I'm tired of the it's for kids excuse. Great and timeless media can in fact be made from a kid first perspective. Bad writing is just bad writing. This just stinks of marketing reps writing instead of experienced writers because all these stories have a content first mentality instead of story first one. It's a giant fictional world, making individual shows to each age demographic I think would loosen the cobwebs, focus the scripts and have characters be in the forefront instead of nostalgia.

[@x-winger9387]

It’s actually pretty simple. Old school hard core Star Wars fans want quality. We are simply not getting it. More poor quality Star Wars is not Star Wars.

[@achaudhari101]

But don’t you think that this comes with the price of expectations that are a little too high especially when I had to hear Karens of both genders bash the prequels for years over not being like the OT?

[@emberfist8347]

@@achaudhari101 You are just using a whataboutism it isn’t too much to ask for respect for the source material.

[@x-winger9387]

@@achaudhari101 I guess that means all story telling comes with a price. High quality detailed stories take time and attention to detail and love… Lucas had love. Spectacles take money… Disney has money. High quality discontinuous Star Wars of the prequels, or the lackluster discontinuous “Star Wars” of Disney. Lucas at least understood Star Wars even if failed to keep the all the details of the OT completely intact. Disney fails understand Star Wars while ignoring continuity all together.

[@miragewizard]

Agree 100% Bro. Long Live the Thrawn Trilogy! Coruscant, first mentioned in HTTE (Heir to the Empire), is now cannon. Grand Admiral Thrawn, mentioned in The Mandalorian, is now cannon. They are teasing us with Mount Tantis and Joruus C"Baoth, to be future cannon. George could have saved everyone a lot of trouble by making the movie "Heir to the Empire" in 1994 with author Timothy Zahn and maybe just a few tweaks and cleanups here and there, from the book to the movie, and then continued every 2-3 years after that through "The Last Command." George would have then had a good segue way right into making the Prequels.

[@storyseeker6028]

There are just better things to get involved in now. one way to just how a fandom is doing is to look at how many theories are being made for it. I currently ain’t seeing that for Star Wars at the moment, people are mostly either bashing it, bashing the people that bash it, bashing it and people that bash it, or consume product. I’ve seen more theories for Destiny recently and IDK if that’s sad or something to be happy about.

[@LuckyDogProductions]

You really need to see the KENOBI 2.5 hour cut - it is REALLY GOOD! The guy cut out alllll. the fluff.

[@Luckyshot511]

its crazy how i feel exactly the same way qs you do afrer whatching kenibi

[@SuperMAC464]

Thor, what do you think about the fact that the Tolkien estate hates the LOTR films, and think they butcher the books. And when they sold the rights to the show to Amazon, they said they didn't want Peter Jackson anywhere near it. Interesting that many love the films, but they think they are terrible.

[@darko-man8549]

I am very much waiting to see the Tolkien estate’s reaction to the Amazon show. I think the current owner of the estate is well known for basically selling the name. But yeah, I agree, the Tolkien estate does not like the films and thinks they missed a lot of what Tolkien envisioned from his books - which I think is true. But I do think the film trilogy is a good example of how to translate something from book to film. There is a fair bit I can criticise but overall it’s loved by most, even die-hard book nerds who will say “I don’t like X is portrayed” tend to still love the trilogy overall.

[@TheVeritas1]

@MAC That's not unusual. Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry HATED The Wrath of Khan. By contrast, fans including myself love that movie.

[@onliwankannoli]

Ranking of Disney Star Wars best to worst: 1 final season of Clone Wars (though they shouldn’t really get the credit for it) 2 Rogue One 3 Rebels 4 The Mandalorian 5 The Bad Batch 6 Resistance 7 The Force Awakens 8 Solo 9 Kenobi series 10 Rise of Skywalker 11 The Last Jedi (Haven’t bothered to watch Boba Fett series yet) You can swap a few around a little according to taste, but this is a good general order. All things pre-Disney, including EU come before #2.

[@joyoustye2326]

I'd love to see a video about how star wars fatigue is worse than ever right now.

[@SuperLuis225]

One of my favourite expanded universe stories was the explanation as to why the Empire didn't use clones anymore. It was a brilliant character study of Bobba Fett who basically went to Kamino and discovered they had lost the template for Jango's DNA and were trying to make clones using clone DNA, which just made these horrific, disfigured abominations. Bobba got so mad (Not that there were no more clones) but that his father's legacy was being tarnished by this cheap, poorly made atrocity. So he single handedly killed the researchers and destroyed the labs in honor of his father. He then cooly approaches Vader and says the next batch has been cancelled. THAT, THAT RIGHT THERE should've been the book of Bobba Fett. A study of a vicious bounty hunter that cares about nothing but money, honor and his father's legacy. But no we got a half written series that undermines his character and was so bad the writers themselves decided to do mando s3 halfway out of boredom instead

[@amit_avinoam]

In 5:59 you mentioned LOTR trilogy, in addition to that you might add many DC animated movies that follow an already known plot and are stoll highly successful (return of red hood, bad blood, court of owls and more)

[@kingxkishi4904]

Thor your Star Wars takes never disappoint me and I appreciate your honest discussions about Star Wars

[@FFS-Vert]

Any plans to finish your Obi-Wan story? Would love to see more!

[@bleedingstar1011]

Heir to the Empire was also my first foray into the EU. I jumped in after someone at the theater after Phantom Menace suggested it. I absolutely devoured every book. Not all of it was great, but there were more hits than misses, and most felt integral. I was heartbroken when they decanonized it, but I gave Disney the benefit of the doubt, which I will never, ever do again. I am currently in the same boat as you. The sequel trilogy slit my Star Wars fandom's throat. Kenobi ripped off the bandage before the wound had finished healing. Not sure if my interest won't bleed out from here.

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

I was in agreement with the decanonizing decision when it happened. I mean even if you adapted some of those stories in the ST, you'd have to change stuff. You also have to consider the age of the actors if you didn't want to recast, which means you can't do the stories immediately following RotJ and kinda have to skip to around where the swarm wars occurred. That being said they could have kept it as an alternate universe and still supported it as there was demand. And obviously whatever they went with in the ST SHOULD have actually been planned out, and I think drawing more from the EU would have been good, even if they took the MCU approach, changing/reordering a lot of events but keeping characters like the Solo kids, Ben Skywalker, etc. Disney owned Marvel and knew first hand that approach could be really successful, but they went a totally new direction with no plan.They could have even planned for a recasted Luke series to fill in the gaps and cover more adapted EU stuff if the fans were open to it.

[@erikfruits6733]

I’m with you. The EU series were the first books I read out of high school on my own. I had to wait for each Thrawn Trilogy book to come out. I didn’t get into the comics but read all the EU novels to Plageus. I was sad when they said the EU was wiped out. After TFA I was visiting my mom and I had all these EU books and didn’t have room for them at my house so I donated all of them to good will except for the thrawn trilogy. The EU was so much better. The only thing I didn’t like I was not a fan of the yuzan vong wars.