Throwback: When Hitchens Schooled Sullivan On The Differences Inside Political Islam (TMBS 90)

[@jmayo7921]

Still remember when Bill Maher called Milo a "young Christopher Hitchens". One of the worst takes I've ever heard, and an absolute insult to Hitchens.

[@mursuka80]

I remember being pissed as hell when he said that. Maher seemed to agree a lot with Milo and it was really disappointing.

[@Nafrodite]

they both have english accents, and that's probably about as deep as his thought process went on that issue.

[@baggerjanus]

Maher is insufferable. And an anti- vaxer to boot.

[@nedzed3663]

That was when I lost all respect for Maher

[@damonficken3457]

Jfc I knew Maher was awful but he said THAT?!? good lord

[@12davetw]

I’m emphasizing what isn’t obvious, Andrew.. - Christopher Hitchens

[@QephetzialGoose]

Hitch was my door to secular talk and to the eventual bread pill.

[@adamgentile7953]

Wow thats how my journey started too

[@Odinsday]

Hitch actually helped me get towards more left leaning ideas despite being a clear arbiter (Especially later on in his career) for edgy right wingers who just want to shit on Muslims.

[@zshrugs123]

Big seltzer sellout!! Sad!

[@etutelary]

He was my door as well. I'll always have a huge soft spot for the man because of that, despite his fall from grace.

[@dionysianapollomarx]

Dude, that's me now. Got breadpilled 2019, but went Socdem then Trotskyism in between.

[@OmarO4]

The Michael Brooks Show should have a Throwback Hitchens Day where they go through his old videos, interviews, and take-downs and analyze them like here. It'll be pure gold.

[@MrEiwa123]

I would like to see them going through the things they disagree with him on

[@galvanatthegrey5338]

Yes please

[@qibble455]

Great idea! But how about Throwback Thursdays with all the old school pundits/writers/journalists Hitch, Chomsky, Malcolm X, Peter and Jane Fonda, for example. and many more that slip my mind. Would be a great show imo.

[@jonathanj2666]

@@MrEiwa123 Me too. Because at this point it is only on seemingly one question - the liberation of minorities in Iraq via the Iraq war. No one, not ONE person that has ever said that they disagree with Hitchens or claimed he moved to the right wing has made any other argument, ever. On the question of Hithchens these people are severly problematic.

[@christheghostwriter]

​@jonathanj2666 you think we invaded and occupied Iraq to "liberate minorities"?

[@TwiStedTentom]

I didn't know about Hitchens until after he passed. I wished I would've witnessed that hitchslap live and in person. RIP

[@tigerstyle4505]

Tis a beautiful thing. Even with his flaws he was a rarity and more impactful than most.

[@scrubjay93]

He would appreciate the fact that he is still connecting with people. The only thing that really bothered him about dying was having to leave the "party" early while knowing it would go on without him. “My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.” --Hitchens

[@cloroxbleach6344]

Well I was 5 when he died so I’m not surprised I didn’t know who he was until like 2 years ago

[@jeremyellismusic]

Not sure why youtube is suggesting Michael Brooks right now, but I'm here for it. His insight in these times is deeply missed.

[@jamescelliers3195]

He had a clip on palestine-israel that went viral. A lot of people are just discovering Michael now 😢

[@stranger16luis71]

Hitchens was quite different compared to other 3 horsemen. He was amazing when he was relatively young but, for some reason, at later life, he became extremely oblivious to american foreign policies regarding middle east policies and muslims. But, his core arguments against problematic theism and bad politics at his early part of life was gold.

[@comanchio1976]

The fatwah against his friend Salman Rushdie was quite formative on him. He always despised organised religion and saw Islamic fascism as an existential threat. He predicted Islamic State when no one had a clue what he was talking about.

[@krismitchell5496]

@@comanchio1976 Really?

[@comanchio1976]

@@krismitchell5496 Well I think it was Al-Qaeda who had ambitions of bringing back the caliphate, and he was the only prominent person I remember warning against it at the time.

[@DV-zv4ox]

You'll need to provide some examples if you're going to make such a sweeping statement. CH was always up to date and well-informed on most global socio-political ongoings.

[@Jamie-pm7we]

​@@comanchio1976 It's a bit misleading to say that Hitchens 'predicted Islamic State'. The rise of far-right militant Islam is a product of its historical context, and when we talk about that context we absolutely have to include the role of Western imperialism in the 19th century and more recent US foreign policy, a foreign policy that Hitchens, and the worldview he represents, are part of in their own way. ISIS, for example, were formed in a US PoW camp, Camp Bucca in Iraq in the aftermath of the US invasion. Bear in mind that this invasion - the Iraq War - was something that Hitchens supported, justified, and passionately argued in favour of. Now, it would be ridiculous to go as far to say that Hitchens *caused* the Iraq War, or that his opposition could've stopped it, but he was absolutely part of a broader conversation in the popular media that legitimised the war and presented it to the public as a noble crusade than what it was, a murderous, power-grabbing act of imperialism. The invasion happened, supported and justified by many elements of the US media machine, and it was its impact that led to the rise of ISIS. So Hitchens wasn't some independent observer wisely predicting the rise of bodies such as ISIS from an impartial standpoint. ISIS didn't just materialise out of nowhere, and in fact the most important catalyst for their rise was the foreign policy of the Bush administration, a policy that Hitchens chose to align himself with and support.

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

He would DEFINETLY NOT join the IDW - as an example, he was one of the first to lambast Charles Murray and all this The Bell Curve bullshittery....

[@macaron3141592653]

I'm sure he would, he swung right in the 2000's, and by the end of them Hitchen's was indistinguishable from Harris in terms of idealogy.

[@Macconator2010]

macaron3141592653 I think people really need to listen to what Hitchens says when compared to Harris. He really didn’t hang out with him that much, they read each other’s books, turned up to a meetup and then a few scattered debates. He always had a nose for quackery. For sure he was wrong on many things, but I think it’s obvious to anyone who’s read his books or listened, really listened to what he says, he would not have gone down this path. His blood was red, even though he became cynical and depressed of the socialist movement. I think he would’ve been reinvigorated by the change we have seen in the past 8 years.

[@kim86gurl]

@@macaron3141592653 Wrong. Hitch died believing in a free and sovereign Palestine, while Harris never has. He'd undoubtedly feel some measure of solidarity with, and sympathy for, the Black Lives Matter movement. Harris doesn't. These are just 2 examples-- not an exhaustive list of differences.

[@weefeatures]

@@macaron3141592653 I don't think so. Dawkins and Harris wanted to term themselves the 'Brights' and Hitchens wanted nothing to do with it, he thought it sounded elitist.

[@alnotbiggaytho7124]

He became more and more right wing over time. He was still for the Iraq war in 2010, and even claimed that it was what decreased islamism in Iraq(he somehow thought Saddam was an islamist).

[@dv4manu]

Hitchens has opened the door to politics for so many people I know across the entire ideological spectrum. It's weird.

[@TheSeas88]

It’s scary how long this exact conversation has been taking place. #freepalestine

[@ryankibby2474]

Best part is Andrew's ending statement there: "HEZBOLLAH IS OUR ENEMY CHRISTOPHER..." quickly look at the bottom of Chris's name, "author of 'Why Orwell is Important.'" I give Andrew the 'Missing The Point Award' for effort. Christ.

[@StuntpilootStef]

"Saddam has WMD's." Boy, that argument didn't age well, did it?

[@alanparedes2034]

Iran has Nuclear Weapons..............

[@StuntpilootStef]

@@alanparedes2034 The point is that Saddam did not actually have WMD's, so the entire reason for invading Iraq was bogus. That's why it hasn't aged well.

[@FreddieGamingHD]

Dan Engle ?

[@Alex-jc7eo]

It was obviously bullshit at the time, you only needed to a, listen to Hans Blix the UN guy tasked with dismantling Iraqi WMD's in the 90's and b, understand that the Baath party and Al Qaeda fucking hate eachother and hold opposing ideologies. I never understood Hitches blind spot here, especially given his ability, as in this clip, to make fine distinctions between different groups, ideologies and historical contexts. I'll never understand how he fell for that shit.

[@comanchio1976]

@@Alex-jc7eo Hitch's position was that, Saddam's regime was about to collapse anyway after years of sanctions, and going to become the region's Somalia, with Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Saddam's sons fighting over the ruins. Better to go in on your own terms and try to shape the outcome; which was carried out atrociously, obviously.

[@berningsandwiches2662]

I think Hitchens was emotionally scarred by 911 and it clouded his judgment afterwards. It was really sad to see such a great intellectual with an unrivaled sense of objectivity have his views distorted like that.

[@libaf5471]

"Everyone is problematic and I disown them all" -- Contrapoints

[@insaniac82]

@G L.C Exactly. Those emotionally scarred are the ones who had to endure the bombs dropped from US planes which he cheerlead

[@jacenskylo]

Not very likely. Even Andrew Cockburn Who knew Hitchens for over 30 years even said in his obituary to Hitchens that everything we saw all of Hitchens after 9/11 was the real Hitchens that he was always an apologist for capitalism and empire and with the Bush administration he finally saw his opportunity to affect policy both nationally and internationally.

[@berningsandwiches2662]

@@jacenskylo Hitchens used to refer to himself as a Marxist. I'm familiar with his older work.

[@christheghostwriter]

​@@jacenskyloyou think Hitchens, an avowed socialist (at least for a time) was an apologist for capitalism. Yeah, I'm gonna need a few citations to support those claims

[@mangodragonfruit6862]

1 legend talking about another Rise in power to both Christopher and Michael

[@grapes9h5]

Oh man, imagining what Hitch would have had to say about the Trump era, the IDW, and the rise of neo-fascism in Europe and the US would be a trip. I bet he'd also still be defending the movement into Iraq though :/ but it would be worth having to stomach for the rest!

[@royw-g3120]

It was OK to get rid of Saddam (though should have done it the first time) but the follow up was so mind numbingly incompetent it lead to a huge bloodbath. It is like no one noticed what happened in Yugoslavia when a secular authoritarian leader left the scene. (Though Tito was an infinitely better human than Saddam)

[@DealingWithDylan]

I think the way Hitch was able to finally disavow Trotsky and Marxism, he would have eventually gotten around to the Iraq war as well.

[@thethird1967]

You guys are simply awesome.

[@lukenineteentwentyseven5051]

the problem with gauging hitchen's leftism is that he was always left. he's support for the iraqi war was justified completely on left wing politics. he had the iraqi communist party on his side on this. further, hes support for a free kurdistan never wavered.

[@marxist-gluteus-maximus5996]

This. I am so glad you brought this up, because I'm tired of liberals calling him a neocon out of ignorance. While I entirely disagree with Hitchens on the Iraq War(Easy to do now), his point was very much based in leftist values and his arguments at the time were actually pretty damn good. Another good take on this is if you youtube search Zizek and Christopher Hitchens. Zizek defends Hitch because of the exact reasons you mentioned. He also mentions how it's a false notion that the US is inherently the bad guy in foreign policy. The fact that the Middle Eastern Leftists actually sided with Hitch on this shows why some of the condemnation is misguided.

[@comanchio1976]

Luke NineteenTwentyseven Exactly. He never moved to the right; he was always a leftist interventionist. To expect everyone on the left to agree on everything, is naive and unrealistic.

[@lukenineteentwentyseven5051]

@@marxist-gluteus-maximus5996 i originate from turkey. and a free kurdistan has been the position of the turkish radical left, from trade unions to communists. it took a drunk village idiot from Connecticut to achieve this, much to our shame.

[@lukenineteentwentyseven5051]

@@comanchio1976 more to the point, hes leftist position has been radical/marxist. he has never been opposed to intervention. he has opposed imperialism. and he makes the case for this distinction aptly.

[@metaflight9495]

Sometimes I wonder how the Iraq war would have gone had they just reopened state owned iraqi factories instead of trying to find a way to privatize the country's assets. Alas, they invaded the country with the intent to loot it.

[@theintrigued9910]

Its sad knowing he sold out. Watch Hitchen's vs Tariq Ali, somebody uploaded that to KZbin recently. He made Hitchen's look a fool.

[@Odinsday]

Any rational person could obliterate Hitchens on Iraq.

[@Lewa500]

Just because someone holds a position opposite that of yours, doesn't mean they "sold out".

[@myroc1]

People assume he sold out because he had to be aware of the millions of displaced and dead that would follow the invasion. It's like if your trusted mechanic were caught cutting wires under the hood when you needed an oil change. It's possible he's just lost his edge and doesn't know what he's doing, but you know he knows what the wires do and it's suspicious.

[@HereticforGod]

Hitchens > Harris. RIP Hitchens and Brooks

[@thomaseelvelt907]

Sometimes I click on a TMBS video just for the intro ;)!!

[@OPRAHRULZ]

An underrated part of Michael's show is the aesthetic. There's an honesty and humanness to drinking and potsmoking while talking about what's going on in the world.

[@bwana4711]

Politics misses Hitch. I sincerely hope that had he been blessed with more years he may well have returned to the politics of his youth.

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

“ I’m fighting what isn’t obvious, Andrew- “ Yet ‘ Wit’ is Nothing without Being Correct in the Heart of your Mind.

[@Bucketheadhead]

Emphasising*, not fighting

[@Davel6527]

Michael - I loved this Hitchens piece but I would also love to hear your group discuss Hitchens so called right turn vis a vis his expressed support for the Kurdish people and their serious problems at the time with Iraq -. This topic deserves a deeper exploration and surely helps explain his seemingly schizoid ideological stance at the time.

[@jeremyellismusic]

Really miss Michael Brooks.

[@nad1ax2]

I don't know who I miss worse -- him or Hitch

[@jones1351]

Don't know what happened in the latter years, but when Hitch was on, he was ON.

[@deanrao7554]

I find a lot of1980's and 1990's Hitchens stuff on KZbin that's fun to listen to even though it's not current.

[@robertvaughn9448]

Never knew Andrew Sullivan had a mild English accent.

[@jameswilhite9561]

He can channel a little George Michael when needed.

[@asapbrooks743]

Sounds more Australian than English

[@robertvaughn9448]

@@asapbrooks743 I'm not even very good at identifying American accents

[@freestuffsubscribe809]

He's evidence of how easy it is to confuse the English accent with gay affectation

[@geolosophizer7293]

In light of the current genocidal campaign by Netanyahu against Palestinians in Gaza this is so Enlightening& Depressing at the same time.

[@brendanthompson2082]

Andrew Sullivan, at least, admitted his errors on Iraq. Hitchens never could admit he was wrong.

[@robertstan298]

Great video guys, thank you.

[@johnruggiero4205]

Hitch was brilliant and Andrew Sullivan had no biz on the same stage as Hitch. He was a pion by comparison. Hitch. Rip You’re missed

[@dakotafisher8400]

I'd appreciate more pieces about young Christopher Hitchens.

[@Jelperman]

4:46 That's funny, Israel tried to sell atomic weapons to P.W. Botha in South Africa. Sully is a silly billy.

[@walidmawass7057]

at 7:45 Andrew Sullivan says that Lebanon is a euphemism! Very interesting comment from him and that he would substitute a whole nation to one of its political/militia/Shiite parties and its practices in South Lebanon.

[@scottspa74]

This was fun. I loved hitchens, then was blown away by his Iraq at support. A mixed bag. But arguably the best debater that ever existed, not to mention, cool as shit.

[@mrboomward]

Can we get a full clip of Michael ranting about having to watch hours of IDW content for the book

[@alnotbiggaytho7124]

4:35 Israeli generals admitted that during the 1967 war they were ready to fire off nuclear weapons towards Cairo...

[@aitchisondaniel]

Has it occurred to anyone that Hitchens didn't want the Iraqi people to have to live under a mass-murdering, genocidal tyranny? Like so many of us. We just didn't realise how readily religious genocide by various groups would replace sectarian genocide by the tyrant, wrecking our desire to see the place rebuilt like Bosnia (also a regular Hitchens example).

[@jlastre]

The thing about outgrowing your heroes hit me. I once got into an argument with one of my high school teachers who wanted an easy on a hero. Told him I didn't have any as all I could think of had let me down. This was in the late 70s mind you. He was just aghast that someone my age didn't have any. I just think I outgrew them at the age of 15.

[@landryprichard6778]

After 9/11, the world was never the same. I was 31, so old enough to have consciousness of politics for a number of years at that point. Not even the same wirld anymore. Not even close. So sad.

[@euanreid6682]

If the Empire ever came to a sudden halt Sullivan the Imperial apologist would go halfway up its ass.

[@Bucketheadhead]

5:32 I don’t think they gave Sullivan enough credit here. He went from this clip in what 2002/03? Where he’s basically a classically trained advocate for Israel. Like the classic hasbara mouthpiece. Fast forward 7 years or so and he’s saying things like"I too am sick of the Israelis. [...] I'm sick of having a great power like the US being dictated to” and had Leon Weiseltier in 2010 saying he has a “venomous hostility toward Israel and Jews" - which sounds exactly like the kind of crap someone who criticises Israel would have said about them. He even defended Ilhan Omar in 2019 following her Benjamins tweet. You have to admit, it’s quite the turnaround from what we see in this video. Credit to him.

[@robertaylor9218]

Hitchens was a well-traveled journalist, that is the major distinction.

[@petopetteri178]

Hitch, why you smoked all those fucking cigarettes?! You are needed now!

[@chrisl3987]

I also had an extremely critical Hitchens phase in my self-education as a socialist. He's probably the most important public intellectual in my own life, and probably the last person for whom that term wouldn't be pretentious self-aggrandizing bullshit.

[@WordAte]

Hitchens was an extremely intelligent confused man. Here, he is 100% right that Israel has committed war crimes against the Palestinians. And Hezzbollah is a result. That doesn't justify either Israel or Hezzbollah war crimes.

[@johnruggiero4205]

Hitch lost the left in the early 00’s but got them all back with God Is Not Great

[@TheGodlessGuitarist]

Hitchens should have said 'I'll condem Hezbolla for guerilla terrorism if you condem Israel for state terrorism'.

[@alilalji7575]

Miss you bud.

[@devanshchauhan3693]

Michael "I have to read his fucking book for my book" Brooks

[@hastrom]

Would love some Gore Vidal viewing also, Hitchens looked up to Vidal in a big way in his early years before they parted ways over war.

[@jonathanj2666]

"You could see why Hitchens leaned to the right". What an absolute weapon that guy is. And Michael too for not standing up against that type of vitriol. This is because unlike what these rimjobs fail to realize is that the only point of contention they have with Hitch is that he supported the liberation of minorities in Iraq via the Iraq war. He was never right wing or "moving to the right" (unless you mean from a Marxist to a socialist, sure). What these talking heads are doing is merely character assassination by way of a feigned high ground. On the Hitchens question they fail to position him EVERY TIME

[@Davidlee37101]

Our political culture endorses the condemnation or beatification of figures on either side preventing discourse of items and devolving to right vs left.

[@ItsOgre]

Hitchens always has been a scoundrel to me. Read his take on Columbus Day and protests against it if you haven’t already. That was in 1992. His grotesque turn towards Neoconservativism in the wake of 9/11 is par for the course when you look at things like that. Western/White European Exceptionalism and Imperialism in his blood even when he was pretending to be a Marxist.

[@jacenskylo]

Well said

[@jameswilhite9561]

Brooks is like Hitch meets Rain man.

[@cloudofthought]

lol

[@keereekee]

RIP Hitch and Michael Brooks

[@benkeith2077]

If Hitchens was still alive he would be IDW,and Ben Shapiro would never have been allowed into it in the first place.

[@damonficken3457]

Shoutout Matt’s BK Dodgers hat. Love it.

[@chuletaization]

Hitchens would pulverize Ben Shapiro. Look what happened recently on the BBC and Andrew Neil wasn't even trying. Shapiro on BBC was an intellectual version of Jim Carey kicking the sh*t out of himself in the men's room.

[@fofopho]

RIP 🪦 agree or disagree with him, he was a great man. “Take the best, leave the rest.”

[@nunyabiz6918]

Hitch was michael’s morrissey. Hated his politics at the end but was too much of a fanboy to leave the greatest hits in the past. Rip to two legends.

[@AdamRainStopper]

It would be interesting if someone (maybe you Michael) did a sort of deep dive/ overall assessment. Here, free title: "Hitchens, The Good The Bad and The Ugly." It would mostly consist of contrasting his views before and after his reactionary moment, but as far as I know, he never did disavow socialism.

[@SThrillz]

Hitchens birthed the skeptic community and his death birthed the IDW. He was kind of the centre piece and then once he was gone the fracturing began, you began to see the ideas morph.

[@robeson1231]

It's wrong to say Hitchens 'moved to the right'

[@ZenobiaofPalmyra]

He was always on the right though, just like all Trotskyite splitters are.

[@logruszed]

I would disagree, to some extent, that Hitchens was conflicted here. I think he had a hierarchy of moral or ethical principles that, while based to an extent on a personal bias, were nonetheless consistent even when they ran in contrast to a personal bias. That's how all ethical or moral arguments should work.

[@andrewhoyle1521]

Hitchens didn't move to the right, I dnt think his views were right wing, they were liberal

[@lindenstromberg6859]

Hitchens never moved to the right. He just had a disagreement with other people on the left and his opinions aligned with the goals of those on the right. I think Hitchens himself always described himself as being on the far left and a Marxist. The reason he parted way with socialism is because of the collapse of the union movement and he didn't see a path to worker ownership of the means of production. Overthrowing Saddam (a right-wing leader) was still consistent with the earlier views of Hitchens. Although, I'm happy to hear other perspectives.

[@MacrobianNomad]

Hitchens went from a "Trotskyite" IS member (predecessor to the Socialist Workers Party) in the UK, who was an anti-War activist to later a big supporter of the War on Terror and the Invasion of Iraq under some right wing premise of Clash of Civilisation in which Islam is the enemy.

[@insaniac82]

Trot to neocon pipeline is real

[@qibble455]

Question: Who do you think Hitchens would have endorsed in 2020? I think Warren.

[@TheEvolver311]

Hitchens had already started moving towards the right during the Clinton era he came to realise that the American left was full heart embracing neo-liberalism on the domestic end and got attracted to the regime change warhawks because of his tunnel vision on the Kurdish liberation movement which he thought needed its own state to exist in peace and that their alliance with the US would be the best opportunity for such a change.

[@scrubjay93]

Michael seems too attached to labeling Hitchens as "right wing." I don't believe he thought of himself as a wing at all. He just came to the wrong conclusions when it came to Iraq; I believe his life experiences in the region influenced his biases regarding the war. I doubt he'd be defending it now. Anyway, labels can be limiting and is akin to stereotyping people because of their religious beliefs or skin color. I think maybe Michael isn't that familiar with Hitchens.

[@undisciplinedintellectual8919]

America won it's Independence via terrorism...we don't call it terrorism because it was resisting foreign invasion and rule...these details are important...

[@TheGodlessGuitarist]

I don't think Hitchens really became right wing as such even though he did adopt a strident position on Islam that the right tend to like. Hawkish thinking can infect both left and right even though the left tend to lead the peace movements these days.

[@trini4204]

Rip Michael brooks , miss you 🙏 and rip Christopher hitchens , miss you both

[@deanrao4805]

I still enjoy late twentieth century Hitchens recordings. On politics, religion, and even on ancient literature. Recordings after that fatal day in 2001, not so much...pretty much not at all. From your discussion it sounds like there may be some later stuff worth listening to. I often see a Hitchens video with a tempting title suggested on KZbin. But I pass it up if the photo in the thumbnail is puffy-faced Hitchens. Because I'm a snowflake and easily triggered. It's good to have you guys to filter it for me.

[@MorganCatha]

pouring out my drink for Hitch

[@BillNepill]

That guy Andrew Sullivan didn't deserve to share the stage with Hitchens. Extremely weak argumentation. You can tell he is repeating someone's talking points without investigation or analysis on his own.

[@jordankimball2104]

Hitchens was often on the wrong side of the argument after 911 but at least he had an argument.

[@undergrounddojokeyboardcag701]

No he was not. He justified the war with Iraq simply because he viewed religion to be the core of all problems. He did the same thing with America and any other country that had a core religion that was taken at equal or higher value than human rights. One could argue if he was right or not, its subjective. And i do think he would have no problems calling out the US' actions, long term occupation and private military involvement. But i tend to find people don't seem to realize he was... probably overly, focused on the religious aspect of it. People say he "moved to the right", i don't think he did and its solely based on his support for the Iraq war and the idea that to be left, you have to be anti-war. Which is simply not the case. At one point this was a liberal requirement, but that's about it and is no longer the case. He never moved "right" he was simply "right" on this one thing that is viewed as a right wing thing in America and IMO, falsely viewed as such. War and violence are not partisan things. Id also like to point out that Michael and his buddy actually get it a bit wrong with their initial evaluation. The "regime change" was not at the "forefront" or core of what he was pointing out, human rights violations was. And there was no "paradox" with Hitchens. He was merely a thinking human being and thinking human beings will always find themselves with a series of ideals or ideologies that fit in all sorts of different places on the political spectrum. And all of that said, i challenge anyone to find someone who knew more about the individual organizations and what they stood for and fought for. No one else as far i know, took the energy and effort to know these things.... outside of maybe our CIA. And the fact that he was able to separate and understand these groups, yet still held the position he did, tells me that he saw or knew something that we didnt. I do wish he lived to see Trump as president though, that would have been a... gonna say it, gift from the gods. It would have been the most entertaining thing to read/hear.

[@jordankimball2104]

@@undergrounddojokeyboardcag701 great reply. My only question would be if he would make the same argument if he lived long enough to see isis come to power or to be more specific how he could argue for an ongoing war with States that didn’t even attack us. I’ve seen videos of him try and make Israel look like a bunch of babes when compared to Palestinians. This argument of his did not age well with history. In this subject and I can see why he got so emotional. He was also trying to sell his most popular book after this. Hitch said his big battle is against theocracy after all. He would probably agree with me in saying it’s why he was “put” on earth.

[@undergrounddojokeyboardcag701]

@@jordankimball2104 You nailed it at the end there and that's the reason i have to look at everything he says through the lens of it being all about religion. He knew what was going on. He was not fooled by the US. While he was sitting there talking about regime change, he would also start listing CIA operations and how bad they are. Not to mention he also enjoyed being a contrarian and we know he didnt like a lot of the stances of American liberals, he, rightfully so and before many others, saw right through them. As for Israel/Palestine, i always felt he nailed it. /watch?v=ejadhwDB-OY

[@wolfgangvonheilman6886]

I don't mind debates even if one side is wrong on everything and using poor arguments. It drives me nuts when the losing argument side constantly interrupts. Hitch is constantly interrupted 3 words into a response.

[@Beastly21100]

Which episode was this?

[@andrewkohler9730]

9:50 I feel the exact same way-thanks for telling us not to have heroes, Hitch! And thanks also for the amazingly brilliant things that you said, despite being totally wrong on other things. Here's my favorite Hitch, on the subject about which he influenced me most deeply: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6LCmKCff9l9gqM

[@JD-fb5ps]

Thinking about how if Hitchens was still alive he would be a regular guest on Joe Rogan's bullshit and how much that would fucking suck

[@alnotbiggaytho7124]

Wow, Hitchens defending Muslims.

[@robrobillard1746]

Hitch was a ridiculous drunken war cheerleader at the end. Many mopped the floor with him at this stage. Regurgitating Paine could only get him so far.

[@Tatpunjiya]

1:44 hahahaha bush’s hahahah

[@geoffreycanie4609]

rip michael

[@coolshah1662]

RIP dude You'd be missed.

[@OstrichRidingCowboy]

"Very serious Hitchens phase" is the most embarrassing thing I've ever heard. Or: I don't want to hear about your Hitchens phase until you tell me about your Harold Bloom phase.

[@OBasedBeats]

Harold Bloom, ist he the "Mohammad was a warmonger and thats basically Islam" guy who even held a lecture on the Amazing Atheists channel?

[@kait2972]

How could you study hitch throught the 80s and 90s and then not understand his support and justification for the Iraq war.

[@hinduhillbilly]

One of the best shows ever to air on C-SPAN was the call in show hosted by Brian Lamb between Christopher Hitchens and his right wing wackadoo brother Peter Hitchens. This was before 9/11 broke Christopher. It would also be cool to see if C-SPAN did a similar show featuring the two after Christopher shifted to the right.

[@bullgatesSR]

How does Andrew Sullivan's head stay intact? He has so many contradictory thoughts it would seem that half of his "brain " wants to leave his head.

[@tomtheeagle1]

Andrew Sullivan should know that the Israelis also helped fund and start up Hamas and Hezbollah in their early days to split the Palestinians in the former case, and to help destabilise Lebanon in the latter case. Both policies also created bogey men on their doorstep and has been used to justify their barbarism and behaviour against the Palestinians across the region ever since.

[@jkryanspark]

Hitchens is as close as I come to having a hero-- despite his deceased state-- but I'm glad to say I don't always agree with him. Hitch was the ultimate pragmatist. If I agreed with all he thought, that would make me a pragmatistist?

[@amakinati8393]

Andrew Sullivan best friend of Bill Maher, wow makes sense.

[@mekalkasias6571]

He got Hitch slapped!!!!

[@porculizador]

loved me some of that hitchens

[@yaserthe1]

ILaq, lol. I'm so silly, but that made me laugh.

[@bearclaw007]

University of Denver, represent!

[@tigerstyle4505]

I can't remember where it was but pretty late in his life I remember him saying that he'd shed specific ideological tendencies (Trotskyism) but that he was still very much a Marxist or most influenced by Marx. His main point in god is not great seemed to be that Marx wasn't the infallible, perfect thinker and theorist he'd previously seen em as. There most definitely was something special about the dude as an orator, writer, debater and even thinker cause no matter how fucked his conclusions could be, he never got there the same way as the more reactionary types did. He was wrong on a few things no doubt but he's sorely fuckin missed. I'd love to see what he'd be doing to the IDW rn because absolutely nothing about him tells me he'd be anything but against it, including his ol buddy who uses his name constantly, Sam Harris.