Thunder Force IV (Mega Drive vs Sega Saturn) Side by Side Comparison | VCDECIDE

About the video: An audiovisual comparison between the Thunder Forve 4 for Sega Genesis (Mega Drive) and PS1 (PlayStation).
Sega Genesis/ Mega Drive = Left Side (MD version)
Super Nintendo/ PlayStation = Right Side (PS1 version)
Support my work on KZbin: / vcdecide
Technical data -
Full Game Name: Thunder Force IV
Alternative Name: Thunder Force 4
Developer(s): Technosoft
Publisher(s): Technosoft
Release: 1993 (MD) 1996 (Saturn)
Comparative Region: 60 hz
Genre: Shoot 'em up
Mode: Single-Player
Dual Gameplay by VCDECIDE

[@vcdecide]

Before you start complaining, here's the Sega Genesis version with the SNES version kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJepm4KnptqMqqs&t

[@darkbionic1044]

Jajaja right fucking people just bitch and complain instead of appreciate the content that takes so much hard work to put out there for us to learn Thanks for this

[@michaelromeo9567]

Thunder force III MD vs Thunder Spirit Snes..! 🙏

[@BrunoidGames]

É sempre bom ver essa obra prima da Technosoft! Vou até ligar o Mega pra jogar antes de dormir.

[@AndréFontes]

Graficamente eu não vi diferença. O Mega Drive era mesmo incrível. Mas no console de 16 bit, rola as vezes umas quedas no FPS quando a tela enche de coisas. Alguns efeitos sonoros e as vozes estão melhores no Saturn. Mesmo assim, o Megão fez um trabalho excepcional na época.

[@civilmaterial]

Isso mesmo. Uau, grande MegaDrive.

[@afenger10]

Slows? Mas cadê o blast processing? 🤔

[@BrunoidGames]

@@afenger10 a queda é muito sutil, não tem slowdown. Pra jogar shmups o Mega Drive e o PCE foram os melhores consoles dessa geração.

[@oplarchive8426]

​@@BrunoidGames E ainda tem a questão da versão europeia que tem a opção do Maniac Mode que deixa os slowdowns quase zero, dando a entender que a maioria dos slows eram proposital. E se usar o código no Game Genie de troca de região o jogo vai rodar a 60hz em um console NTSC. Agora, será que o SNES daria conta? Com toda essa I.A e coisas acontecendo, fora que já teria uma vantagem sobre a resolução e campo de visão, já que difícilmente redesenhariam todos os sprites, pesando no aspect-ratio 8:7, como em Final Fight 2 e 3...

[@felipev8927]

Verdade, também não vi diferença. Das duas uma, ou o Megão era parrudo pra rodar algo assim, ou o Saturno teve um porte menos caprichado e até preguiçoso para ele. Dito isso, eu fico com a primeira opção, pois sabemos que o Mega Drrive/ Sega Genesis era FHODA !!!

[@jackcobain2948]

Thunde force IV é uma obra prima 🤟

[@ClevertonHeusner]

Pra rodar um jogo desses com essa performance, o Mega é um monstro.

[@alaggan]

I bought the Mega Drive original on Japanese import. An absolute top notch shooter, one of the best of the 16-bit era and almost Neo-Geo class visually in places.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

10:04-10:06 a great demonstration of how the Saturn port avoids sprite break-up. For those not aware, the Megadrive hardware can't do Atari 2600/NES style sprite flicker. When you go over the limits, chunks of visual data simply vanish.

[@oplarchive8426]

The same happens in the previous comparison, between Cotton SNES X PS1.

[@sega16bit7]

There's a reason this game was not ported to the other 16-bit platforms only the Genesis cpu was powerful enough.

[@emmanueloverrated]

"For those not aware, the Megadrive hardware can't do Atari 2600/NES style sprite flicker." That statement is false. Its easily feasible, btw, the flickering on the NES isn't a hardware feature, it's part of the game code. The reason why we never see it on a genesis is because the limit is 80 sprites, with 32x32 max size. You can cover the screen with sprites if you want. What you've seen here is sprite tearing, it's hard to mitigate sprite tearing using the flickering technique you mentioned because it's CPU intensive, you have to keep trace of pixel counts per scanline and then flicker on the sprites on that scanline... its complicated, cost precious CPU time and not worth it, as you can see, it happens merely during 2 or 3 seconds during some events.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

@@emmanueloverrated Thanks for the correction. Confirming what you said, I found a Megadrive game with a large amount of sprite flicker: Dangerous Seed. But the sprite flicker there is completely insane. It's like it was designed with the Master System in mind, instead. Any idea what's going on? Also, I'm confused...doesn't sprite flicker just require shuffling sprite priorities? It seems pretty simple. The 2600 is nobody's idea of a powerhouse system, but even it can tell when there's a conflict in Ms. Pac-Man and keep sprite flicker to a minimum. The only time I've seen it be an issue is the original Pac-Man for VCS, and that had more to do with the 4k ROM space being too small to create both the game and a flexible flickering system..

[@emmanueloverrated]

@@juststatedtheobvious9633 I'll look for Dangerous Seed, that's great that you find a game implementing it, I never encountered one. I'll share to you my impressions on it. Very much appreciated. For the flickering algorithm, there are several approaches. One trick is two have two categories of sprites. One that never flicker, like the protagonist and some props in the scene and a second one which matter less, like projectiles and big objects, explosions. For the flickering, a naive algorithm is to use a rotating buffer, when the max sprite count is less than the count you have to draw, you push only the max count to the PPU, and you continue where you were in the next frame. So theorically you can increase the number of displayed object twice before having severe degradation. I know that Konami is known to have interresting algorithms for flickering, but I wasn't motivated enough to analyse it. For the Atari, if I remember, unlike latter console, there's only two sprites of 1 pixel high, and you have to move it and change it manually as the CRT beam move on the screen, this is freakingly tedious and limited... to an extent where I wonder how some game are even possible... Space Invader *cough*.

[@paulosantiago7457]

Esse foi um dos primeiros jogos que eu vi no mega drive. Ainda hoje o visual dele me deixa de boca aberta

[@paulosantiago7457]

Agors eu estou na dúvida se foi esse mesmo, não tô certo se as fases são as mesmas...

[@baronhausenpheffer]

Both of these look fantastic, but I think Saturn might have a slight edge from the music quality upgrade and being better at avoiding slowdown.

[@DeaDPooL-XforceX]

This is my only childhood game love it to death that rocking intro just headbanger material. 😈🤘🏻

[@igorschirato2799]

Como sempre, parabéns pelo excelente trabalho/vídeo !!! Indiscutivelmente, "Thunder Force III" e "Thunder Force IV" são excelentes jogos de "navinha" com muitas qualidades, ótimos gráficos e otima jogabilidade !!! Estão entre os melhores do gênero.

[@Bruno_BruhSix9]

Pra mim só perde pro Aero Fighter 1 e 2, Thunder Force é bom demais

[@joaoclodoaudo5385]

@@Bruno_BruhSix9 sério que vc acha isso? Heheheheheh okay mas discordo.

[@igorschirato2799]

Outra ótima série de jogos do estilo "navinha", que poucos conhecem, é "Battle Mania 1 e 2" !!!

[@joaoclodoaudo5385]

@@igorschirato2799 valeu, vou conferir asap

[@emmanueloverrated]

Both port looks awesome. I prefer the original version for one aspect, I don't like all these logo, FMV and stuff before getting in the game.

[@steve5123456789]

the slowdown though.

[@emmanueloverrated]

@@steve5123456789 Slowdowns are uncommon in this game. It's almost nothing compared to Super R-Type 3 or Gradius 3. (LOL)

[@xtremer_daredevil5950]

OG's sound effect does sound better though while the saturn version sound poor in comparison for my taste

[@Blarggunbaba]

Esse game tem músicas maravilhosas!!! "Blarggnave"

[@leandrocerencio]

Excelente conteudo. Eu tenho o Gold Pack 2 para Sega Saturn. Quando eu abri o jogo, eu vi que não havia mais os slowdowns e te falo que o jogo é outro. Muito bom, muito rápido. Não é a toa que tem gente que overcloca o Megadrive para jogar o Thunder Force 4 sem os drops. Foi por isso que te sugeri no outro video. O do Megadrive é bom, mas o jogo do Saturn é outro, muito mais dificil e muito mais rápido. Fico com o Saturn.

[@aryasmayodi8115]

This game was created in 1992 for the Japanese version, while the American version was released in 1993

[@joaoclodoaudo5385]

Best shmup ever

[@ajsingh4545]

One* of the best shumps. Many great ones out there to overlook.

[@joaoclodoaudo5385]

@@ajsingh4545 ok, would you please name three for me? Except the dreamcast ones. Thank you

[@ajsingh4545]

@канал удален he is probably a shmup noob. There are tons of the Saturn, Genesis, Snes, PC Engine/Turbo grafx. I would be able to name 100 easily.

[@joaoclodoaudo5385]

@канал удален thank you. I already know some, but not all. Will play it soon

[@joaoclodoaudo5385]

@@ajsingh4545 within these systems? I doubt it. I just asked, politely, for three.

[@Eltro920]

Not sure if it's me, but some how the Saturn version isn't suffering from slowdown as much as the Genesis version. Plus there's less sprite flickering on the Saturn too.

[@WeskerSega]

There's also another sound difference, voice samples don't silence the music in the Sega Saturn version like they do in the Mega Drive version. That was very typical on the Mega Drive to have crisp clear voice samples, in order to have all the sound channels available.

[@WeskerSega]

@Orzuum Maybe I lack the technical wording to properly explain it, but for sure the voice samples on Mega Drive games come out clearer when there's no music playing at the same time. It wasn't just Technosoft doing the cut off with Thunder Force IV, some early Mega Drive games like Altered Beast and Golden Axe are also stopping the music completely when a voice sample is played. You want to know a game that allows both ways to do sample playback? Panorama Cotton. And you can choose that at wish, either have the sample playback to cut off the music or not doing it and combine both. And obviously the voice sample comes out better if you choose to cut off the music. What point would that have then if it wasn't the case? Do you think people are pleased to have music being abruptly stopped/interrupted by a voice? So you also have the choice of combine them if you don't mind the loss of voice sample quality. That has to be related to the channels being played at the same time obviously.

[@rustymixer2886]

Snes sfa2 should have had that option for music off so it would NOT pause 3 seconds before each stage! The audio compression in that cart was awful

[@billystink4611]

Love the soundtrack.

[@exitplanetduster]

Colors are more brilliant on MD.

[@TheSocialGamer]

That's what I'm getting watching those on my 1440p OLED phone. The Saturn port is a bit darker.

[@Ychigo100]

Esse jogo impressiona no Mega! Mas acho o Thurder Force V do Saturn/Ps1 mais divertido, com uma trilha sonora nota 1000. Tomará que a Sega um dia reviva a série, já que parece que ela comprou os direitos autorais da franquia.

[@justsayin4632]

Interesting that the stage select lettering has drop shadows on MD but NOT on Saturn🤔

[@Shendue]

Just wanted to point out that there's a mistake on the description. It says "PS1 (Playstation)" instead of "Saturn", and then it says "Super Nintendo/Playstation", again instead of "Saturn". Also, "Thunder Force" is mispelled. Thanks for the excellent video!

[@hardkoregamer1981]

Sega Genesis holds it's own in this game against Saturn quite well tbh imo.

[@Butterstix2014]

I just have to say, I enjoy they used an O’Neill cylinder for the space station, although that was probably more inspired by Gundam’s use of it more than anything

[@erectro3593]

Sturn version is without slow down. Super difficult.

[@tvjean]

Incredible game with a great heavy metal soundtrack that on Saturn should be remastered.

[@heinrich3582]

Paralax lindo do mega véi. Pra mim o Mega ganha só por rodar o game nessa qualidade ,no Saturno tinha sobra de potência, o jogo poderia ser superior nessa versão ,mas só acabou sendo um porte.

[@DaedalosC9]

Thunder Force series needs more love

[@Crystallums]

They are practically equal, minimal differences. Both machines are wonderful...

[@pnsmexico]

i just played this game yesterday and i love it. couldn't get past level 7 though.

[@SomeOrangeCat]

This is one of those games, where the gameplay doesn't do anything special for me, but that sound track...

[@Raulmmorais]

Nice

[@JudgmentStorm]

No complaints from me... the slowdown seen in some parts of the MD version is tolerable IMO. I'm glad a SNES version was not attempted, or it'd probably have the Thunder Spirits slowdown turned up to 11. The SNES would probably need a SA-1 to handle TFIV.

[@c2ironfist]

Is it me or is the font in the stage select different? Mega Drive/Genesis has shadows while Saturn doesn't

[@joaoclodoaudo5385]

Th md version was made by Tecno Soft while the Saturn version was made by Techno Soft

[@MillaGamer]

A versão do mega, não sei se pela captura utilizada tem um pouquinho de borrão, na minha opinião fico com ela.

[@MisterBisonho]

mamma mia, this game is very good, pity it doesn't have for my super nintendo

[@knightshifter2201]

Snes can't run the game smoothly at all the CPU bottlenecks the system horribly.

[@kriever]

@@knightshifter2201 I believe he said"my super nintendo" because he is MALIO. Good to know the SNES can't run it, though.

[@Paulohenrique-wz6go]

there's super Aleste, I've never played but it seems like the best snes shmup

[@knightshifter2201]

@@3xperiment8 lol ok...

[@jabarijones7871]

@@knightshifter2201 thats a lie snes can run this so-called shooter.

[@morrowlterraslove]

The switch version is pretty much the best version. I mean it got all of the features from Saturn despite being MD roms but the requirements for STYX are Essen up to not require a Maniac 1cc and just need the game to be cleared. this is pretty much the best version even though the International Version did fix the 99 lives glitch and I guess M2 knew that but I never needed it anyway. Also I saw a comment claiming the Omake tracks are not on Saturn but definitely is on switch and it doesn’t need the game to be cleared it’s accessible from Initial boot up.

[@rcassiano2]

a musica intro do jogo é muito parecida com a musica do Doom

[@darkbionic1044]

They look a bit same? But yes I get it in a way Mega looks better ?

[@civilmaterial]

Poderoso MegaDrive. Tinha uma época que tive seis. Seja o que for a versão do Saturno poderia ter oferecido outras perspectivas.

[@felipev8927]

Sim, o Saturno TINHA capacidade de SOBRA pra fazer o mesmo jogo só que MELHOR em todos os aspectos sonoros e visuais, porém acho que bateu uma certa preguiça...Além do mais, os jogos pixelart/2D ou 2.5D eram considerados "ultrapassados" e os executivos ocidentais da maioria das plataformas só queriam saber de jogos em 3D e graças a essa IMBECILIDADE, MUITAS obras de arte como por exemplo Gunners Haven, só ficaram no Japão...

[@diegomarquez5679]

no slowdown and no music stop at weapon voice in saturn version. am I right?

[@rustymixer2886]

We could have just played genesis cart if cart slot on saturn was Backwards compatible like master system was to genesis!

[@rustymixer2886]

@Gavin Townsley exactly probably time restraints

[@siricaobidos2382]

Genenis é foda . Se fosse no snes iriam te que enxer de chip para rodar nessa velocidade rs.

[@superslowtendo9589]

Genenis mostrando como ele era foda . Sega wins

[@Ashitaka0815]

Saturn version has less slowdown/sprite glitches, but mega drive sounds better imo. Especially the sound effects, music is more like a variation thought and a matter of taste.

[@caseyhayes4590]

This game didn't really need enhancements to look like an early sprite based 32 bit shooter

[@amany113]

Disadvantages of MD version: Poor processing, BGM and SE that cut off during voice. Disadvantages of SS version: Deteriorated SE and VOICE, as if re-sampled.

[@ph_stuff]

Tirando os slow downs aqui e ali, passaria por um jogo do Neo Geo fácil em termos de gráficos. O Megão era foda demais!

[@diehlr]

So basically the same game?

[@orlandoturbo6431]

Just wanted to know how easy can Sega Mega Drive games be ported to the PC Engine.

[@turbinegraphics16]

not as easy as ps1 to saturn I would say

[@orlandoturbo6431]

@@turbinegraphics16 They ported lots of Sega Mega Drive games already for the PC Engine look at Shinobi and OutRun

[@danmakuman]

@@orlandoturbo6431 Those are ported from the arcade,not the MD.

[@danmakuman]

It depends of the game but I think the main problem will be the lack of a second background layer. The PCE only can display one, and while there are some tricks to make it look like there's more, I think a game like Thunder Force IV can't be ported as is without some big sacrifices.

[@waynecuff3140]

​@danmakuman disagree look at games like Gates of Thunder, Lords of Thunder, Airzonk. Those games have layers. Clever programming on PC Engine yields results. Would of loved to have seen Thunderforce on Super CD rom2.

[@MetroidHybrid]

Seems like the only difference in gameplay is the better "voice samples" in the Saturn port..

[@MisterBisonho]

@канал удален slowdown here 03:56

[@AllCoolThingsStoneMountain]

Does the Genesis one seem to have smoother parallax scrolling and brighter colours to anyone else, too? -HERETICPRIME

[@marskdmus4543]

👽👍

[@felipealexandrenascimentof1897]

Se aparecer um Thunder Force 5 pro Mega eu compro com certeza.

[@swafflemanish]

Main diff is that Saturn doesn't slow down as much

[@Lonegraywolf75]

How are you able to play TF4 on Sega Saturn in English? I want to buy this game but I only see Saturn version in Japan?

[@leandrocerencio]

You cant, you have to buy special cartridge to unlock Saturn for other regions, dont need special mod chips.

[@morrowlterraslove]

TF4 always been in English there’s no Japanese aspects at all also yeah the Saturn Thunder Force games (Gold Pack 1 and 2 and TFV) was only released in Japan Also in NA it’s known as Lightening Force (not Lightning)

[@lordadk31]

Music were downgraded on saturn and the omake were cut on saturn. Regarding the slowdown contest saturn goes well all the game. Still, play in hard on megadrive and lots of slowdown if not all of them disappear. It is not magic or game optimization but simply developpers who let people learn the pattern. On megadrive emulation, it is possible to play without slowdown too.

[@Rafael_Francisco]

Tirando a apresentação de abertura e alguns efeitos mínimos, o jogo de Saturno é só uma cópia do original.

[@ofonruiz]

First time playing it?

[@sdekaar]

Less slowdown on Saturn but it use sample for SFX so the sound is blurry. Md wins.

[@ericcamello3247]

Tuve las 2 consolas para disfrute más la SEGA genesis.... Genesis la mejor

[@TheCoopsCorner]

I'm a big, big fan of Thunder Force IV. And while the Saturn game was cool for getting rid of the slow down, sprite flicker and adding the ability to play as Styx in TF4, they really botched the sound effects. The music sounds great on the Saturn version, but the sound effects are tinny and weak sounding... like they're playing through a small, cheap speaker. This sucked out most of the low end from the sound effects (even the big thump from dying) and made them sound pretty bad when compared to the Genesis/Mega Drive original. It's a shame, because the Saturn version could have been the definitive version if they'd fixed that.

[@Bruno_BruhSix9]

Ao meu ver o do Mega tem as cores mais brilhantes e bonitas, tem alguns slowdowns compreensível pois esse jogo tem muita coisa na tela e já é um feito e tanto rodar no 16 bits, fico com o do Mega só por ser mais brilhante e pelo motivo de segurar o game muito bem com poucas quedas de FPS

[@civilmaterial]

Concordo. Que máquina é o Mega.

[@afenger10]

Cores mais brilhantes? Devo ter visto outro vídeo

[@Bruno_BruhSix9]

@@afenger10 calma aí fera, também sou nintendista. Mas realidade seja dita, nesse Thunder Force 4 o Mega brilhou, e contra a versão do SNES o Thunder Force 3 também foi melhor que o Thunder do SNES. Não se ganha todas e não tem nada mais babaca do que fanboy que fica desmerecendo tudo só por ser fã de uma marca, fora que nesse vídeo nem tem um SNES brigando, são 2 consoles da Sega, 1 de 32 Bits e outro de 16 Bits e pelas limitações do Mega esse jogo ficou incrível na plataforma, agora para de chorar aqui mano, é feio até pra mim que sou Nintendista, da vergonha alheia isso

[@afenger10]

@@Bruno_BruhSix9 quem aqui tá falando em Thunder force de Snes aquele jogo é uma vergonha alheia e fica evidente a inferioridade frente ao do mega. Agora me conta qual os méritos para o mega em um jogo que foi feito pensado no hardware dele? Nesse caso caberia a tal excitação sua se a de mega fosse o port e não ao contrário, e essa sua cores brilhantes é forçada heim, não vi nenhuma diferença a respeito disso. Agora incrível seria Thunder force V de saturn no mega, assim como chaos seed de saturn que tem pra super famicom. Se liga cara deixa de trouxisse

[@afenger10]

@Lucas Molessani capitou o bait kkk mal se consegue identificar se é jogo de 16bits de tão bonito que é, que por sinal saiu em 96 no sfamicom e só em 98 conseguiram portar pro saturn.

[@Sakf504]

Very muffled sound effects, far less slowdown, and a cool bonus of using the STYX (TF3 ship) if you complete the game with one credit. That's what i noticed.

[@sega16bit7]

Imagine if this game was on the slow super nintendo probably would of melted the console.

[@miriamalmeida6687]

Mega winnes

[@mariocornodokoopa7566]

Sega wins

[@gabrielaprintes9318]

Essa trilha 🤟

[@shootem7926]

mmm looks exactly the same

[@Paulohenrique-wz6go]

Pena que não posso emular o Saturno

[@afenger10]

Um ótimo game para os padrões do Mega. Possui músicas que chegam a lembrar painkiller do Judas Priest. Mas faltou o tal blast processing aí... slows segundo os ceguetas era só no Snes.

[@jackcobain2948]

Se fosse no snes o jogo nem rodaria kkk. E se rodasse Seria lento igual um jabuti. Salve 🤟🤣

[@paulo0770]

@@jackcobain2948 Snes roda street fhigter alfa 2 roda Donkey kong country, star ocean e você quer me falar que o Snes não rodaria este jogo de forma descente kkkkkkkkkkkk

[@Lee-pe9bi]

Ja ta chorando Nintendista kkk. Ver se vai roubar igual eu rapa. Quem tem slowdow é Mega Man x e com chip especial ainda hahah.

[@Lee-pe9bi]

@flaviochaos exatamente é isso que eles tem que entender amigão Afinal mega Man x Mesmo com chip especial é cheio de slowdow.

[@Lee-pe9bi]

@@paulo0770 Star ocean e Street Fighter Alpha Tem chip especial só para lembrar o senhor 🤣🤟. Donkey kong é um jogo com gráficos digitalizados No mega drive tem vectoman haha!! Nenhum desses jogos poem muitas coisas na tela ao mesmo tempo meu amigo Ou seja são jogos lentos. Thunder force IV é frenético do início ao fim Cheio de inimigos na tela Ou seja para rodar tinha que ter um processador rápido

[@michaellindqvist5288]

Sega wins!

[@FZuloaga]

Sounds better on MD.

[@thegrigs777]

there should be better on the Saturn

[@AngeLang00]

Es un colection, no port

[@retrosado2544]

Son iguales

[@SomeOrangeCat]

PS1 in 1996: Here's the Resident Evil. A game that will redefine a genre and be on everyone's lips for decades to come! Saturn in 1996: Here's a port of a 16-bit game!

[@Gryzor88]

Me in 2021: Fuck yeah, Thunderforce IV on Saturn is a timeless masterpiece that’s still fun to pick up and play. But Resident Evil on PS1 has become an unbearable chore, with awful tank-controls and confusing camera angles from hell. There, fixed it for you ;)

[@SomeOrangeCat]

@@Gryzor88 You're here. The point is somewhere out in the Horse Head Nebula. Fragile Sega fans never change.

[@Gryzor88]

@@SomeOrangeCat Oh, excuse me for assuming that the whole point of games is for them to be fun.

[@leandrocerencio]

Saturn in 1996: oh hold on.... here there is also Resident Evil for you too, with extra content.

[@maxhowell8689]

Zuado jogo já é ruim ainda fazem um Replay kkk

[@galados18]

no lag and best sound quality on saturn

[@sega16bit7]

That's why the game was only on the GENESIS and not the snes because the game was too demanding.

[@BIGGIEDEVIL]

@@sega16bit7 ya cuz you know that for a fact. Snes can do any game the genesis can do and better depends on if they wanted to add chips to add the performance needed to run the game

[@sega16bit7]

@@BIGGIEDEVIL the Genesis was chip capable also, so what's your point here?