Tiber Septim EXPLAINED! - Talos, The Underking, Zurin Arctus, Ysmir Wulfharth - Elder Scrolls Lore

[@taylorkoenig6489]

With Tiber Septim's multiple origins and blurry history makes me think he is an analog for a player character.

[@techpriest6962]

My theory, they had an idea ‘mortal who became a god’ and like Wotc, Games Workshop, or any other large company. They never decided to sit down and write the lore.

[@InfinityOrNone]

@@techpriest6962 I think it's the opposite problem. They had their writers all get to work and write the lore, and each writer did exactly that, on their own. So now having half a dozen different origins, they just decided, "Fuck it," and threw all of them into the game because content is content whether it makes sense or not.

[@Silath01]

Maybe ESO is a Dragon Break and all origins are true

[@GustavoTiavo]

A game following Tiber Septim would be cool

[@gaywoman420]

I think this is purposeful to make the elder scrolls lore seem more like real life history where multiple accounts and interpretations exist and often cancel each other out. After all there are several official sources that do just that with certain events.

[@Dinoenthusiastguy]

My theory: Talos' origins and nature are deliberately shrouded in mystery and confusion in order to cause wars between the stormcloaks, empire and thalmor. Who's responsible? Nazeem, who intends to build a cloud district from the ashes of Tamriel

[@kyletanking]

Thus he must silently end along with all airs to his Thorn

[@viveka2994]

All Hail Mighty Nazeem, Daedric Prince of Precipitation and Annoyance

[@hunterw5044]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The real master mind behind this is J'Zargo. He wants to make everyone his subject so he can freely practice magic and test experiments on people.

[@pinstripe4254]

THAT BASTARD

[@KriticalKoitus]

This is unironically my theory, except it's so Nords, Bretons, and Imperials can all identify with him.

[@finalaleks.6663]

When I have trouble falling asleep, these vids help put me under. Not in a bad way, but because your guys's voices are so awesome, and TES lore makes excellent bedtime stories.

[@redpanda3339]

Their voices with those background music👌

[@d-dh2143]

Since the d00dz at FudgeMuppet are a bit too "excitable" for me, I for one prefer John Michael Godier and Isaac Arthur for falling asleep.

[@dingusdingusman]

Same here

[@henrymarckisotto9025]

I do the exact same!

[@sladjanrankic4162]

Voices? Jesus it took me a year to realise there are three of them 😂

[@Saber501]

The idea of a Man Turned God actually being multiple men fused into one being is so fascinating. Man do I love Elder Scrolls. Love this channel! Keep up the hard work!

[@PorktatoesSSRB]

Wait...isnt that how the Emperor of Mankind was formed???

[@Saber501]

Warhammer 40K Skyrim build for a Talos worshipper?

[@PorktatoesSSRB]

"The Emperor is the collective reincarnation of all the shamans of Neolithic humanity's various peoples" i Wikipedia searched and found this not sure if its also counts as multiple men fuse into one being tho

[@Saber501]

Heavy armor clad Nord Knight smashing Thalmor and any other obstacles with an enchanted warhammer for defying the word of Mighty Talos.

[@kingdavey90]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[@regglesg3599]

The Tribunal of Scott, Drew and Michael EXPLAINED?!

[@hamzaferoz6162]

Drew the Deadrologist EXPLAINED please

[@pelinalwhitestrake4196]

I've taken to calling them the true Tribunal Drealscott

[@regglesg3599]

@@pelinalwhitestrake4196 Or drescomi haha

[@sevensins3584]

@@regglesg3599 that sounds like a medical procedure

[@regglesg3599]

@@sevensins3584 fair enough, but it took me until fudgemuppet to realise what almsivi meant

[@thevoidlookspretty7079]

I choose to believe that Tiber Spetim walked into Zurin’s lab asking if he had found a power source, saw a smoking green gem and 2/3 of a battlemage, then was like, “Alright then.”

[@Thecommander248]

So headcanon.

[@thevoidlookspretty7079]

@@Thecommander248 Yes.

[@zerogbot23]

"Good work Zurin"

[@definitelynotfbi119]

How do you know this?

[@nickchappa1827]

😂😂😂 that kind of humor hits home

[@thomashearne4670]

If Talos achieved CHIM then he could have altered his origin story as much as he liked. Or if the dragon broke during this time it's possible that all of these origins are true as well

[@vivecthepoet36]

If it's anything like the Tribunal, then Talos would have to be more than one "truth". There would be Talos the God, and Tiber Septim the Man, just as there are Almalexia, Sotha Sil, and Vivec the "always-gods", and Indoril Almalexia, Sotha Sil, and Vehk the mer-who-would-be-gods.

[@dstr001]

That's the point, by the time of Skyrim Talos the god is seen as one being, he altered history to the point where people cant even see the multiple origins even tho he clearly has multiple names and titles. Talos the god is Tiber Septim at his core, with the combined history of Ysmir Wulfharth, Talos Stormcrown and Zurin Arctus' feats.

[@joshuavar4678]

CHIM isn’t necessarily canon.

[@vivecthepoet36]

@@joshuavar4678 CHIM as an in-universe metaphysical concept is explicitly canon, and there really isn't any benefit to be gained from considering its status process/state of being to be non-canon.

[@joshuavar4678]

Vivec the Poet I’m pretty sure it hasn’t ever been outright proven to be true in any game or official content from Bethesda. And it’s better if it isn’t canon because the idea that everything in the Elder Scrolls universe is a dream kind of ruins the lore and makes everything pointless.

[@dstinnettmusic]

My headcanon is that Talos is essentially a ”player character” in an unreleased game. He did all of the things ascribed to him, just not all at once. Just like I have at various times led the Dark Brotherhood, Theives Guild, Companions, have won the civil war for both the stormcloakes and Imperials, and been head of the college of winterhold. I’ve defeated Miraak and Both been victorious for the Dawnguard and the Volkihar. The last Dragonborn did all these things, but not all at once.

[@alperenarslan01]

Thats exactly what im thinking. Were you able to find any theories about this?

[@LonelyOcean]

Underrated comment right here. He is definitely some kind of fourth wall metaphor because of the uncanny parallels between Tiber Septim/Talos and every other main Elder Scrolls protagonist especially in regards with how they each effected their respective timelines. Certain events occur and threaten the existence of Mundus and that's when a new main game protagonist is introduced then they save the day and bring both peace and balance back to Tamriel but along the way they also cause choatic Dragon Breaks to occur and I believe that happens because every main character was actually the Shezzarine, a mortal manifestation of Lorkhan/Shor with the exception of the Neravarine and the dragon breaks happen because The shezzarine defies the rules of time and space and those key aspects of Auriel and Akatosh clash so heavily that the fabric of reality is altered in such a way that it makes every contradiction in history both true and false. (and BTW that's just a maybe on the account that we don't really know if there can be multiple Shezzarine alive at once or not the Neravarine is currently and allegedly stated to be alive at the same time as The Dragonborn because of The Corpus but that's not confirmed we don't really know what happened to him so it's up in the air.)

[@LauraS475]

The only thing I haven’t done is kill parthunax because why tf would I do that

[@Altrantis]

Talos the god probably bears a striking resemblance to the Numidium. He's built from the essence of a shezzarine, the knowledge of a battlemage, the craft of the dwarves as a body, and the will of Hjalti the manmer. Tiber Septim was clearly not an atmoran, that confusion comes from the fact that Wulfharth was Atmoran and many of Tiber Septim's deeds are actually Wulfharth's.

[@dman6093]

So is it possible that Wulfharth assassinated the current emperor without Talos' knowledge or approval so that Talos could ascend the throne?

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@dman6093 Damn, paints Wulfharth as a shady person, and means Talos really just got lucky

[@Strawberry92fs]

Tiber Septim was in fact 3 white guys stacked on top of each other in a trenchcoat.

[@briancooley8777]

That’s scary

[@Super50ldier]

Wulfharth was a Nord not a Atmoran.

[@petersmittens6222]

I love living in Germany bc for me you're uploading these just when I get home from my night shift, and it's the perfect thing to watch before going to sleep 👌🏻

[@maxkernfeld7928]

Nicht wahr ?

[@ArcherLium]

Quit that shitty job, night shitfs steals your soul

[@johnnystonks3970]

The same thing... But in France 😂

[@oliverstianhugaas7493]

*Tiber Septim is nothing more than a victorious MARK ANTONY* Praise TALOS.

[@comteraffayn8351]

\[T]/

[@BryceGirdner]

​@Boo Hoo Mark Antony was Julius Caesar's right hand man in the Gallic Wars and thereafter. After Caesar was assassinated in the Roman Senate, Antony took control over the Empire militarily. Facing pressure from the Roman Senate, he teamed up with some lad you don't need to know and a man named Octavian.... or Augustus, I'm sure you've heard of him, Caesar's adopted son. Anyway, those three created the Second Triumvirate... After crushing the Senate forces, Antony and Augustus each governed half of the Empire, still acting as one Roman Empire. Then Augustus was like, "nah, fuck that. I want the whole empire." .... Augustus then defeated Antony in a small-scale war, then killed him and Greco-Egyptian Queen Cleopatra. But yeah, the comparison between Tiber Septim and Mark Antony is made because Antony became sole dictator (for a much shorter time than Talos albeit) after the man who led the insurrection was assassinated, just like Talos became Emperor after King Cuhelain was assassinated.

[@gabrielinostroza4989]

@@BryceGirdner "Having rejected his loving wife Octavia, Mark Antony has coupled himself to the sorceress, Cleopatra, promising her dominion over all Rome! He worships dogs and reptiles! he blackens his eyes with sooth like a prostitute! he dances and plays the cymbals in vile Nilotic rites!"

[@OGfisk]

@@BryceGirdner Anthony didnt really declare himself Emperor, i think you are confusing a bit of his history with Augustus(Octavian)

[@ambrosiogiovanni6952]

@@OGfisk Augustus also didn't declare himself Emperor. His title was just "the first citizen of Rome".

[@Italiangentleman2394]

I am going to be serious for a moment here four years ago I lost my best friend me and him are both humongous fans of Skyrim We both like to be Nords and he was definitely a storm cloak to the core I want you to know I always think about him when I watch these videos so I would like to dedicate this to my fellow in the ward who died in service of his country sovngarde gained a true warrior

[@Artorrien]

I also lost a friend who loved Skyrim. We used to talk about it a lot. Now both my friend and yours sing and feast in Sovngarde.

[@Artorrien]

I also lost a friend who loved Skyrim. We used to talk about it a lot. Now both my friend and yours sing and feast in Sovngarde.

[@siouxsieslime2985]

@New Kid dickhead

[@jhay3966]

@New Kid asshole

[@doritozmilk8035]

@New Kid aids

[@omegagilgamesh]

"So what is he? How do we know so little about one of the most important people in history?" My default explanation for TES inconsistency: a Dragon Break.

[@DragonWinter36]

It’s also Bethesda’s default explanation for TES inconsistency CHIM is a close second

[@Draezeth]

@@DragonWinter36 He was also said to have achieved CHIM, wasn't he?

[@DragonWinter36]

@@Draezeth Yep! That’s how he became the Ninth Divine, if I’m not mistaken. (Fuck the Thalmor, they’re objectively wrong about Talos)

[@lepimond4605]

@@DragonWinter36 There's a theory that the Thalmor actually acknowledge Talos as the Ninth Divine (there is a lot of proof that he has indeed become a god), but are forbidding his worship 'cause it would weaken him. Why would they need to weaken Talos is a whole other theory. I could explain it to you if you want

[@mrcopycat2355]

@@lepimond4605 Please explain, Skyrim painted them as bad guys but, besides total domination, I don't see other motives

[@wiibrockster]

I have been waiting for this for a very long time! Tiber Septim truly did change Tamriel but for better or worse...well,that just depends on your views..

[@weepingangel2384]

Long Live The Empire!

[@jacopomazzo4949]

Changed for the better, but he was an awful person personally. Evil man and evil actions, even if the Empire has been shaped in a generally good faction, luckily.

[@nathanwhite64]

@@jacopomazzo4949 Which makes me wonder if Ulfric might be a fitting successor to his legacy, an ambitious narcissist who does shady things to accomplishes great ones.

[@faelheavymetal]

@@nathanwhite64 You're kidding, right?

[@nathanwhite64]

@@faelheavymetal Nope. I mean, I can't betray Balgruuf in any case, but I still can't ignore the similarities between him and Septim. All bad, but there you go.

[@baronofbahlingen9662]

Finally a more “mainstream” lore channel talks about this complex and awesome topic. I knew I could count on FudgeMuppet.

[@ferallumberjack4310]

What if Talos was all of the myths but in different time lines simultaneously following the same destiny to Ascension?

[@briancooley8777]

He’s basically the messiah of elder scrolls

[@azurengamer9392]

@@briancooley8777 I always kinda saw him as the the divine replacement of Lorhkan, despite the Thalmor's attempt to snuff out Talos worship claiming he's a false god some do believe he is a god that took Lorhkan's place, its possible that the god Talos was intended by the original 8 to be Lorhkan's successor and a part of me is hoping in es6 its revealed the Thalmor's plot to destroy Talos is secretly a scheme made by a weak avatar of Lorhkan using elven pride to get rid of Talos so he can be return as the true ninth divine.

[@Mephilis78]

Kind of the definition of what happens in a dragonbreak. We already know there was a dragonbreak in his time. That's why Cyrodiil is no longer jungle. So really, he did all of it at in split timelines. Just like the Warp in the West.

[@SebasTian58323]

Perhaps the origin of Talos is subject to a small dragon break that when it conjoined again gave birth to the divine, a perfect combination of all origins

[@cegorach3135]

By Ysmir!....You will leave out of here alive!...

[@jyggalagdaedricprinceoford6239]

CHEESE

[@cegorach3135]

@@jyggalagdaedricprinceoford6239 Sweetrolls...

[@jyggalagdaedricprinceoford6239]

My lord. What shall we do with the intruder.

[@cegorach3135]

@@jyggalagdaedricprinceoford6239 Pluck out his eyes!...or just tell him to go home...

[@sheogorath2600]

you imposter I'm the real sheogorath

[@calebkerr2308]

So I just realised that his story sounds like he was a main character in another game.

[@billiamofthunder781]

Arena and Daggerfall

[@steveno3141]

Surprised he didnt touch on the dragonblood or how talos' breast plate allowed for the ritual that required the blood of a divine to work worked.

[@jhay3966]

I like to imagine that in the far future in some crisis, Talos will be like: "Aight where are the great heroes? Let's see..." looks at list* 1. Nerevareeee - still in Akavir 2. Warrior of Kvatch - Cheesman Orgasms 3. Dovahbro - hangs out with a billion eyes in hentai land "what happened to these guys?"

[@henrymarckisotto9025]

Thank you! The Talos stuff always confused me and who better to explain it than the Fudgemuppet lads

[@pyrys8807]

Listening to this as the first thing in the morning and eating breakfast. Thanks for the pleasant wakeup!

[@pelinalwhitestrake4196]

Yeah I got up at 6 am on a school day to watch this. Love ya Muppets.

[@pelinalwhitestrake4196]

Yeah yeah love ya fugs

[@HereComeTheTrainComingBlues]

Praise Reman!!

[@pelinalwhitestrake4196]

@@HereComeTheTrainComingBlues Praise be to Reman!

[@sheogorath2600]

@@pelinalwhitestrake4196 himself going to school?

[@harrisonwilbanks2380]

6am? You should be almost up anyway lol

[@andrewnorris7642]

Can you do a video on the concept of the brass tower, direnni tower, white gold tower etc and their connection to the existence of mundus a whole

[@Ahmed-sl3mk]

Isn't the brass tower just the numedian? Which was destroyed, made by the dwemer, white gold tower was one of the magnificent ayleid structures in cyrodill which iirc was based on the direnni tower in high rock, what are you trying to get at? They're all man/mer created structures that have nothing to do with mundus

[@General_Griffin]

@@Ahmed-sl3mk Do some deeper digging and you'll find that the answer is far more complicated than that.

[@Paiitt]

dun dun dun ta da da Actually there is 8 “Towers” which aren’t always man made structures that keep mundus from dissolving into oblivion. One of these towers is the direnni tower and contains a magically sealed door to the room where the aedra originally conviened to create mundus, and it’s said that the convention inside the room is continually going on.

[@Paiitt]

I personally think the thalmor would have the most interest in the direnni tower because as we all know the thalmor basically want to reset the universe, and if they somehow unlock the room it’s GG

[@JustDaZack]

"I'm sure many of you know who Talos is" OH, Heimskr made sure of that!

[@adarshkamoda9183]

The Underking's less romantic story of Hjalti Early-Beard just makes the most sense to me. He was a Breton, born in Alcaire, who came to Skyrim in the name of ambition and conquered all of Tamriel to save the races of men from themselves. He received the name Talos from his Nord soldiers when they witnessed Wulfharth as a storm over the Breton's head. When Hjalti Early-Beard ascended to the Imperial Throne, he took the name Tiber Septim to make himself more likeable to Cyrodil's lords while his Nord legions wept the weakening of their legendary general. He waged his war across Tamriel to bring a lasting peace. With the power of the Brass Tower, Tiber Septim made himself a god. He was the last Atmoran, he had the Voice, he rewrote Cyrodil's geography. I think the Arcturian Heresy is an origin story and the mythical, romantic ones are the conclusions: a conqueror becomes a hero, the future overwrites and changes the past. It's like building a house and then going back and renovating. Is the first house the real one or were the renovations the originals? Obviously, renovations come second and similarly, Hjalti's Nord origins are his rewriting of history. Was bloodshed really necessary? It seems that Altmer's claims that men are just greedy, ignorant, bloodthirsty barbarians seems justified. The only thing humans of the Elder Scrolls respect is war. But I don't think that explains what was going on at the time. Falmer society seems the closest thing to Eden but we hardly know anything about them thanks to the Atmorans; if we looked at only the best of a culture and compare it to another culture's worst, that can hardly be called fair, can it? Bosmer are as peaceful as their forests. Their culture literally prioritizes embracing differences. But they're as proactive about helping others as a bumblebee. Dunmer base their society on secret murder, plotting and a small amount of racism. Not exactly the kind of rulers you want for a peacekeeping society. Altmer seem super peaceful and enlightened, don't they? Not a single war that we've ever heard of, not a single unjust part of their society, no person falling through the cracks. But that's the thing, we don't know anything about the Altmer's history beyond their religion and propaganda. Their culture prioritizes staying as similar to the past as possible. Conflict is born from opposing ideals and societal norms. When your ideals and culture are about staying the same and preserving the past, no matter the cost, you're not going to have conflict like humans do, are you? You'll be in a small, confined pocket of the world, judging people for being different. That's sort of the problem Tamriel in Hjalti's day had. No one could agree on anything. People were as united as the sand on the beach. They straight up regressed to saying "Fuck trying to think, let's just kill everyone that isn't with me". His exact origins led to his particular beliefs and alliances which led to his exact actions which created an extremely unique and specific legacy. He is the "chosen one" archetype but we're forgetting that he is "special" only for a specific purpose. The prophetic heroes aren't the ones who are told that they're better than others, they're the ones who are the right tools for the right jobs. That's the whole point of being "chosen" by destiny. You're not suddenly given meaning by a higher power, you're told that you have exactly one thing to do in your life. Everything you've seen or done has led to your final destiny. You're not better. If anything, you're worse for being chosen because unlike everyone else, you get the illusion of free will. You are killer, who was born at a time that puts you up against a target and your circumstances ensure that you have to go kill your mark, no matter how you feel about them. The only caveat is the glory of being "the hero". That's what Skyrim's main story was about. Are you one your way to kill Alduin because destiny or because you, personally, want to? Can you understand the forces pulling strings to create the prophecy or are you just a wind-up toy being let loose against dragons? Why do you want to save the world? Is saving the world even the right thing to do? Should you use your Voice? What if you ought to help Alduin? You got funneled into slaying the dragon but you're forgetting why the dragon even exists. My answer to those questions? All mortals can use the Voice but Akatosh decided to give the player a dragon's soul to be used at their discretion. This mortal understands that their destiny is to slay Alduin because if god wanted the world to end, he wouldn't have created the Last Dragonborn. That mortal also has things they want to do in that life and they may also like the world and may not wish it to end so soon. That's also sort of what Hjalti had to probably deal with. The world is in chaos and needs a ruler. The Greybeards call him to their sanctuary and tell him that's exactly what needs to happen. So he follows through with the prophecy.

[@Aetherguy-cb9bu]

Did the Underking literally mention his race?

[@adarshkamoda9183]

@@Aetherguy-cb9bu Yes.

[@Aetherguy-cb9bu]

@adarshkamoda9183 If it's in the Arcturian Heresy, it only says he's from high rock. Is there any dialogue from Daggerfall where it is mentioned?

[@MALWylie]

I’ve always theorized that Talos is simply the completion of a plan by Lorkhan to regain life after the Aedra killed him and also to walk the Divine Path to achieve CHIM, true Godhood! Going further, it could be used to expand on Lorkhan’s plan for the creation of Mundus: perhaps he did so to attain true divinity and knowledge of the Aurbis considering his existence being the soul of Sithis, who is the soul of Padomay, who made the Dread Father to better understand himself and Sithis to create Lorkhan for the same concept. It is a bit spectacular how this can be expanded on and linked all the way back to the two infinite persons: Anu and Padomay.

[@eshock753]

Please never stop making lore videos! They’re the best part of my day now

[@majora320]

Perhaps there were a couple of Dragon Breaks surrounding Tiber Septim?

[@vivecthepoet36]

Talos isn't Tiber Septim, Talos isn't Hjalti, Talos isn't Wulfharth, or the Underking, or any combination there in. Talos is the end result.

[@YagrumBagarn69]

You, I would have words with you. - Talos

[@themadmonk6379]

The thing about Tiber Septim being a man mer. Atmorins to the common humans might seem quite elf like, tall, long lifed, demigod like power.

[@vivecthepoet36]

I mean, after the Dragon Break/CHIM/Mantling/However Talos acquired godhood, Talos could be a Nord, an Imperial, a Breton, none, and all of the above all at once.

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

"Manmer" (that is, Bretons) are on the short side though. With the name "Hjalti", he may very well have been part-Nord and been taller than a typical Breton, but he still would be nowhere near as big as an Atmoran (who dwarfed modern Nords and may have even been the ancestors of the giants too). There's also one source (not explicitly canon, but written by the same guy who wrote most of the lore on Talos) where Kyne herself is the one who refers to him as a "manmer", and she definitely wouldnt mistake an Atmoran and a Breton. Said writer has referred to Hjalti/Tiber Septim as a Breton in out of game forum posts a few times before too

[@therockingvolbeat3630]

I like to think he was an elf on the side of men, so a “man” mer. Would be pretty cool.

[@whiskerskibou8647]

Tiber Septim, Zurin Arctus, Ysmir Wulfharth, and Talos Stormcrown walk into a bar. He orders a drink.

[@georgeaird4637]

Tiber Septim is like the player-character we never got to play as.

[@twentytwoedits2442]

The fact that i fall asleep half way through your videos gives them high rewatch value. Dont mean its boring. Its just nice to sleep in while listening to a relaxing voice talking about elder scrolls stuff

[@FramesJanco505]

Yo, where's Nazeem at? I haven't seen him in the cloud district, he must not get there as often anymore

[@gabrielmartinez8292]

I’ve been listening to your videos as a podcast recently and I absolutely love it! Your voice is perfect for it.

[@maxmazza2987]

Altmer: no mere man can stand against us, let alone conquer our ancient lands! Tiber Septim: *laughs in Numidium*

[@LalaLa-ze7kv]

Without it he couldn't though

[@omkardalvi3789]

​@@LalaLa-ze7kv He literally is a god. 1 Dragonborn defeated Alduin imagine what 3 combined would do to the elves.

[@metroplexprime9901]

Ok, so I have a bit of a wild theory here in terms of how divinity works. I'm noticing a lot of similarities between Vivec and Talos, at least in terms of the mystery behind their origins. Vivec has a multitude of backstories, from the "divine" backstory presented by the tribunal to the more human one where he was part of a street gang until he was eventually found and taken in by Indoril Nerevar. Regardless of his origins, the end is pretty much consistent: he rises to divinity using the heart of Lorkhan and achieving chi(y?)m. The details differ (IIRC in the tribunal temple version Nerevar died at the battle of red mountain at the hand of Dumac Dwarf-king just before Kagrenac manipulated the heart of lorkhan, but the ashlanders believe that Nerevar was killed by the tribunal), but the result is the same. The same goes for Talos. He has a wide variety of backstories, each proclaiming that he came from a different background, but the result is still always the same: he ascends to the ruby throne and achieves divinity. An idea presented in Elder scrolls lore is the idea that worship confers some amount of power to the one worshipped. Vivec still maintains a fraction of his power due to his worship at the tribunal temple, despite his loss of power from the heart of Lorkhan. This is why the aldmeri dominion is trying to stamp out the worship of Talos. With this in mind, I present this: mortals ascending to divinity meld many into one, and divines being differently worshipped splits one into many. I present Akatosh as the stand-out example of one splitting into many. Even his origins are of one splitting into many, with Annu creating Anui-el, and Anui-el creating Auri-el. There's even an opposite dichotomy between mortals and divines, where mortals who become divine have differing origins as mortals, but are seen as the same figure, and divines having generally similar backstories among all cultures, but end up being almost entirely different figures. With all of this in mind, Talos starts to make more sense: all of his stated origins are correct at the same time, again similar to Vivec. He was a breton warrior, an atmoran who grew up in Skyrim, and an imperial all at the same time, just as vivec is theorized to be all of his origins at the same time. Sorry for the essay, I just thought I would share my thoughts on this.

[@RhianKristen]

I love just listening to your videos... there’s something magical about them. Good job 👍

[@Galimeer5]

I say Talos was never from Atmora. That's just the nords trying to appropriate his origins. After all, "Talos of Atmora" sounds like a pretty good nord hero name. But I think it makes more sense to say he was actually a breton who grew up in Skyrim, then returned to High Rock with the name Hjalti, a given nordic name. After that, his origin story plays out like the history says.

[@d-dh2143]

I say both happened thanks to the Warp in the West.

[@theiconicprodigy1736]

Dᴇɢᴇɴᴇʀᴀᴛᴇ-ᴋᴜɴ ᴛʜᴇ Dʀᴜɴᴋ 'ɴ' Hɪɢʜ the warp in the west wouldn’t effect what happened hundreds of years before it happened

[@rastrisfrustreslosgomez544]

@@theiconicprodigy1736 Actually a dragon brak can do that but I don't think that's what happened. He probably was a breton raise in Atmora, hence the confusion

[@theiconicprodigy1736]

Rastrisfrustreslos Gomez I also believe he was a Breton raised in Skyrim

[@theiconicprodigy1736]

Rastrisfrustreslos Gomez also what in the past has been effected by dragon breaks?

[@dingusdingusman]

Thanks for all the hard work you guys do

[@scambroselauntrellus3681]

FudgeMuppet is a really good writer. That intro on ascending to godhood was great.

[@CosmicFaust]

Do you think these ideas about ‘Man becoming God’ could’ve been inspired by Joseph Campbell’s “Monomyth/Hero with a Thousand Faces,” Jung’s “Collective Unconscious” and Nietzsche’s “Übermensch?”

[@Nerazmus]

There are many ancient myths of human ascending to some form of godhood. But those you mention could have played a role as well.

[@Nerazmus]

@toaritok There is a lot of parallels that could be drawn between Caesar and Talos.

[@craig7021]

Playing Skyrim only to stop, taking a break for some food and come to find another FudgeMuppet video ready to watch. Thanks guys!

[@JKC40]

See what kind of damage retconning can do, folks?

[@guscop2260]

My ancestors are smiling at me imperial...can you say the same!!!

[@Remnant-ez6iz]

As brave as he was in death than he was in life

[@Valencetheshireman927]

Yes

[@twaalfendertig]

Could you guys do a video on how the different races perceive criminality and how they deal with criminals? The view of the Argonians for instance would probably be quite interesting since all of them are sort of bound by the Hist.

[@TheUrbandilema]

Morning im here yes..more content..thanks again and much appreciated.. big fudge Muppet

[@sevensins3584]

What i really want in Elder scroll 6: a wise and a little crazy old daedrologist with three different voices and lots of stories to tell. Who lives in a tower in the woods where he study ancient texts.

[@user-ys3jq3uf4p]

Thalmor:this is getting out of hand, now there are 9 of them.

[@HighKingOfSkyrim37]

Talos could be half breton half nord. Could explain the argument of his nature.

[@DCdabest]

I always kinda think of The Underking as being the combined "spiritual leftovers" of both Zurin and Wulfharth that was combined into one being after they were both put into the Mantella to make it run. If the Mantella is basically like a humongous life energy battery sort of object; then spiritual waste products it produces could very well be a sort of "shade" of all the people that went into making it.

[@gdew5168]

In before the Thalmor has this video taken down.

[@mythicdawn9574]

Brilliant as always ! Complete, with both sides of the story, not dismissing how little we know and how unreliable what we know really is. Really cool voice too ! And one of the most interesting topics of TES lore

[@Super50ldier]

He mantled Shezarr through his merging of Shezarrines.

[@briancrosby152]

When your Counted Days are done you may once again return to Sovngarde - Tsun

[@awesomeguy6928]

Tiber Septim is actually just sheogorath playing a prank on the elves

[@CaesarSonOfMars]

The dislikes are the Thalmor

[@marcus4046]

Ysgramor and Penial:FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFACKING MER!!!!!

[@InterrogatorchaplainAsmodai]

Ave Caesar

[@nonso3396]

Awesome guys.. Just great. I've been waiting for this since forever. Christmas just came early.. Thanks 👍👍👍

[@nonso3396]

Would've liked to hear about him achieving chim though.. Is there any lore talking about how and when he achieved it? We know Vivec got his' by blowing Molag Baal, I think. So how did Talos get his?

[@fingerboxes]

Greybeards to Talos: "Dovakin" Greybeards to the last dragonborn: "Dovakin" Greybeards to Wulfharth: "Dumb-ass"

[@boldbearings]

21:32 "To answer some of these questions we would need to plunge into a rabbit hole so deep we risk falling into Nirn's core...." Sounds like a party, let's do it.

[@Alphatreeyyyy]

What if Wulfharth was shoved into the mantella and when he killed Zurin Arctus. Zurin soul was absorbed by Wulfharths ashes

[@mykls8712]

I'm intrigued. I want this visually.

[@angbandsbane]

Mentioning his avatars, possibility of the Prophet in "Knights of the Nine" being him, too, and he was an Imperial. Interesting thing about that though is how much he looks like his heir, Martin. (Edit: though that could just be the engine, I don't know)

[@JaelaOrdo]

Trust in me, comments section! Trust in Heimskr! For I am the chosen of Talos! I alone have been anointed by the Ninth to spread his holy word!

[@Heyec]

I hope you guys talk about Hjalti, Wulfharth and Zurin. Not enough about the three who became one.

[@Fenris2]

Reason why everyone claimed he was from their area was an attempt to claim their right to power

[@Bsqudge]

You guys are amazing, I always get so excited when I see a new video from you.

[@elvenbredx6012]

4:09 if he achieved chim he can change his race !

[@dr4g0nitedive29]

I thought Sotha Sil said he couldn't? IDK I could be wrong tho :P

[@jaycrownshaw3902]

@@dr4g0nitedive29 Sil didnt achieve CHIM. and with CHIM you probably could.

[@willfischer6007]

Tiber Septim, Hjalti Early-Beard, Talos, and Ysmir walk into a bar. He orders a drink.

[@maxrander0101]

at this point we really have no idea if he was even one person after all even in our own world their are legends of kings that did things no others had ever done that were really a series of kings of the same line and over the yrs their stories got merged into one the same could of happened with Tiber Septim

[@evansmith8067]

Little late watching this, but a phenomenal job on it. All intriguing concepts! Also love the game shots and portrayal of Talos and his sword. What sword mod is this if anyone knows?

[@blackdragon5274]

I feel like the story of him and Barenziah is not as straightforward as in "The real Barenziah" (forcing her to abort their child) because we only ever see a version of it that has been curated to make Tiber look bad, and other sources say that they never had that kind of relationship. Barenziah herself can't be trusted fully either, as she's known to twist history. It's probably somewhere in the middle.

[@martonk]

Why do you think it was written to make Tiber Septim look bad?

[@LordMortanius]

My man, aborting his child is the least of Tibby's antics.

[@indigopotatoe]

Plot twist: Talos was actually an extremely persuasive mudcrab that had no idea what was going on and just winged it the entire time.

[@archdux]

So... the most likely origin/nature of the god Talos, is a dead god (Shor/Lorkan) reincarnated into multiple mortals that eventually fused souls and achieved chim/apotheosis to claim/reclaim godhood. Talos/Ysmir may very well be Lorkan/Shor in a new form and the nords worship both. I guess that explains why the Thalmor are so set on destroying skyrim.

[@reidparker1848]

Blah blah Kirkbride this, Kirkbride that.

[@JoshSweetvale]

It takes a Julius Caesar-esque megalomania and pragmatism to _fusion_ with your teammates and steal their mojo.

[@xKatakiuchii]

You know you're a good KZbinr when you have 3 views and 7 likes

[@QueenJulie21]

I love this channel and the Skyrim lore videos! Keep up the good work guys 💜

[@elvenbredx6012]

ok, I go home and begin a new build : Talos Avatar build !

[@Nerazmus]

And what race will you be?

[@elvenbredx6012]

@@Nerazmus I have achived chim so It does not matter: I am - Nord of course !

[@Kng-hv2qb]

Elvenbred X I’ve been building one like that for a while so far it’s really fun to play

[@tekdaystar345]

I may not play vista games anymore, but I have always respected you guys.

[@emperorclaudius5499]

Please bare with me this is going to be a long one. I believe The story of The Elder Scrolls is meant to be a mirror of the classical period in our world with more Celtic and Germanic influencers mixed in a Tolkien style fantasy setting. For example, Ysgramor and the Nord exodus from Atmora to settle Tamriel is supposed to be the survivors of Troy who fled across the sea and eventually settled in Italy and according to legend we're the ancestors of the Romans. Reman Cyrodil and his empire mirror the story of Alexander the great who conquered the known world at the time but died young and his empire splintered. Tiber Septim's story is loosely based on the life of both Julius Caesar and Augustus without the Roman Republic and simply begins as an empire. Augustus real name was Octavian but took the name Julius Caesar for himself because Caesar was his uncle and when he brought Rome into its golden age and became emperor he was given the name Augustus and upon his death was declared a God after 40 years of rule, this is why Tiber Septim has many names and ruled the empire for 80 years. Tiber Septim also had an affair with Barenziah the Queen of morrowind just like Julius Caesar and Cleopatra. The story of Uriel Septim and the Empire throughout the games up until his death in "Oblivion" mirrors the story of Marcus Aurelius and the end of Romes golden age. The current state of the Empire in "Skyrim" Mirrors the crisis of the third century where Rome entered a 100 year long period of civil war. With all that in mind I believe I can safely predict the future of tamriel and the Empire going forward. For starters the Empire will have defeated the dominion and the Empire for a short time once again will be Reunited by a great general who goes on to found a new capital for the rich High elf, wood elf, khajit and argonian provinces however this will have marked a permanent divide of the empire into 2 halfs and the people on both sides will start to abandon worship of the Divines altogether in favour of one God and marking the events of his birth death and resurrection and ultimately his ascension to the heavens with reverence just like the late Roman Empire was Reunited by Emperor Constantine but later split into east and west and abandoned paganism for Christianity. So the Empire is permanently divided and switched to a new religion but rather than the central conflict being internal it will instead be external with a new wave of aggressive migration from the other continents on Nirn like Akavir, atmora and aldmeris which was exactly what happened to the Romans with the Germanic migrations in the West and Islamic conquests in the east. The majority human provinces will hold their ground and become strong and independent Kingdoms held together by their new religion but ultimately the empire will disappear in cyrodil, Skyrim, Morrowind, high Rock and hammerfell exactly how Rome lost control in the West. The majority elven, khajit and argonian provinces will remain United as an Empire for much longer and stay on relatively peaceful terms with majority human and dark elf Kingdoms but will eventually fizzle out and disappear as their land is swallowed up peace by peace by Settlers and Invaders from the other continents perhaps followers of a Daedric cult which was exactly what happened to the Eastern Roman Empire or Byzantine Empire by Islamic Invaders. Now that I've bored you all with that history lesson I hope I've reasonably convinced you that the world of the Elder Scrolls is supposed to be a retelling of the classical time period of our world in a Germanic/Tolkien fantasy setting.

[@bucksfuttly1325]

Very thought provoking.

[@Voids_Avatar]

I like how the begining is most replayed, people probably tried multitasking.

[@subject1754]

You know you're a G when the Thalmor try to outlaw worshipping you.

[@Spartan-bl4pq]

Talos is obviously real, that’s why you get a blessing at his shrine

[@elvenbredx6012]

wow first video I see on the release day actually it has only 4 likes mine included, love you channel !

[@colingore]

You should do prophecies of the elder scrolls and where they pop up throughout nirns history

[@Gardiken]

I believe he was a Nord, that seemed more like his Atmoran ancestors than many nords of his time did, that happened to be born in High Rock. The only part of him being Breton is non-cannon, but just because he was born in High Rock doesn't mean he has to be a Breton. That'd be like everyone born in Elsweyr is a Khajiit, period, no matter if their parents were Argonian and Altmer.

[@mzmarkroark5711]

Was. Tiber. Septem. A nord. Or. A Brenton

[@I_am_always_correct]

I think Tiber Septim might have been more than one person. All the different people in the conflicting story are actually all part of a shared collective identity, and the one that survived when their collective ruse broke apart became a god

[@mickey4697]

But Atmorans are essentially nords

[@Scotttjt]

@the apocryphite No... The Atmorans were the natives of Atmora, and were the ancestors of the Nords. They were mostly the same in appearance, though the Nords have some minor physiological differences due to their ancestors interbreeding with the local Nedes. The Akaviri were the men of Akavir. Next to nothing is known about them other than they were enslaved and later "eaten" by the Tsaesci.

[@Scotttjt]

@Boss J Desano Yup.

[@DanWeeks]

I just read The Arcturian Heresy in game, and now I'm VERY confused.

[@Zerix3Dragonkin]

Talos is likely a handy name for Shor/Lorkan to be venerated under. They had come close to being forgotten, and so, forged a new legend, so as to enter the minds and hearts of mortals once more.

[@ciaranmck4469]

Not really considering that talos is an aedric god as shown through oblivion

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@ciaranmck4469 Oblivion only shows he's "Divine". That does not mean that he's an Aedra.

[@ciaranmck4469]

@@dutchpatriot17 we need the blood of an aedra and we used talos' blood and it worked is that not proof enough that he is a god

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@ciaranmck4469 We need the blood of a Divine - not an Aedra. Talos is not an Aedra, just a Divine.

[@ciaranmck4469]

@@dutchpatriot17 well I meant In the imperial pantheon he is portrayed as the aedra even look at the mythology of his ancenction it was like he became one of them Besides what relevance does this have with the first comment

[@FramesJanco505]

No matter what video I'm watching, what song I'm jamming to, when I see that Fudgemuppet notification I fuck it instantaneously

[@FramesJanco505]

Click*** but the typo made me chuckle

[@b1praetorian738]

I hope in ES6 we end up achieving Chim or become a god of men like Talos. I also hope the dwemer return and they turn out to be a major threat even scaring the daedra.

[@Kareem_Saad_Al-Deen_]

Or even play as Talos.

[@rhett6946]

@@Kareem_Saad_Al-Deen_ ... no

[@raw6668]

It sounds like Tiber Septum was two different people. One was the man who made the Empire, and the other took charge of the Empire after the original died. Wouldn't that be a twist?

[@derpmcgerp5968]

The Vestige, the one of many who escaped cold harbor with sanity intact The Mane, the religious ruler of the khajit Or Umbriel, the infernal city, random floating piece of land that collects souls

[@lonedoeseverything1744]

My theory is that The Dragonborn is actually Talos's kin.

[@evilmatt6465]

My theory about his race is that he was likely born to a Nordic family in High Rock and that’s why he has a Nordic name. It’s also possible that he had mixed elves and Nordic ancestry (maybe that’s where “manmer” comes from?). I do accept that he could also be a Breton but I do like the idea that he was a Nord from High Rock because it’s different from the other origin stories lol

[@skyrimguy217]

I imagine he's half nord, half breton.

[@NobodyDungeons]

the primary reason the reach is such a massive target is because of the vast quantities of silver and gold that lay beneath the earth so naturally people want such valuable materials. In order to solve this problem of constant fighting your best bet is to negotiate with the leaders of the reach men giving them their lands back but in exchange allowing for the mining of silver and building of outsider settlements along with free travel through the reach for civilians

[@YOGI-kb9tg]

thats one of the major problems with bethesda and there lore they dont tell us what is and isnt cannon so works by Micheal kirkbride are considered cannon by many and bethesda will never dispute them because they leave the lore up to speculation with in the fandom.

[@seroteamavi9505]

It's a curse and a blessing. So much content, discussion and speculation just because of how unreliable even in-game sources can be. Because go figure a book written by an Altmer, imperial or nord might just be a bit biased.

[@ApexAZnn]

I think it's more a blessing than a curse, although I do see the problems that arise.

[@aila6814]

the people who wrote the early TES lore really did it so well, and Bethesda is so afraid of using the "Weird" stuff.

[@happychest239]

I believe he was probably from a small village in Atmora that was being engulfed by snow and worsening conditions, he leaves Atmora as a child, is discovered half-dead and completely emancipated by a Merchant in Winterhold shores, taken to Alcaire High Rock, and is later summoned to High Hrothgar by the greybeards as an adolescent, and winds up in Falkreath where he gets involved in a battle between Reachmen and Nords...where he proves himself to be a very competent leader, and the rest is history