Tillotson 212 vs Predator 212 vs Ducar 212

Tillotson 212 vs Predator 212 vs Ducar 212, tested horsepower (HP) numbers on Ducar 212, and 212cc Hemi engines!
The Tillotson 212 engine is 7.9 HP, as per Tillotson website with TCT fuel injection carburetor.
The Ducar 212 Hemi engine is 7.9 HP as per what was tested on this Dyno run.
The Predator engine dyno run for the 212 Hemi engine, throttle stop screw pulled back, was tested on this run at 7.4 HP, previous runs were around 7.3 HP. That was with the throttle stop screw PULLED BACK. It was between 6.6 and 6.8 HP in previous runs under very slightly different conditions (temp, barometric pressure, etc).
There are a few sources in this video that show the Tillotson 212 engine has the same parts, or is pretty much the same vs the Ducar 212 hemi engine. The engines have a few minor differences, but the information I have collected is that the Ducar company produces the Tillotson 212 version of the engine. The Tillotson 212r, however, is a different engine in design. I do have a different video covering that engine in more detail compared to the predator non-hemi engine.
I grabbed another predator 212 hemi engine to compare against the tillotson 212e and, ducar 212cc engines. The Ducar 212 engine is brought in by DynoCams, an industry leader in go kart racing engine performance builds!
Thanks to DynoCams for bringing in a great Race ready engine!

[@megoingfast]

Link to where I got the Ducar 212 engine: www.childishconcepts.com/online-store/Dukar-212-stock-p299495102

[@AnGryCruizer]

i shouldve went to childish concepts i wonder if they quality check their motors before selling them to a customer ??????

[@megoingfast]

@@AnGryCruizer one of the awesome things, you can ask. ;)

[@AnGryCruizer]

@@megoingfast thanks for the awesome reply!!!!!

[@Chocolate_dragon]

I think the ducar and tillotson are definitely worth the extra few bucks over the predator. I have all 3 though on 3 builds and they are all fantastic. All 3 have governors intact but the predator is tweaked a bit and hits about 4300. They all get beat on and never let me down. Whatever you have, ride it and enjoy it

[@AnGryCruizer]

if u can choose one to put on a motovox frame whichn one would u choose

[@Chocolate_dragon]

@@AnGryCruizer I'd do either or. They are fantastic runners.

[@nezabytes]

The Wildcat 223 destroys both of them!

[@spuds7677]

For me, the Ducar was the better and cheaper option for my mini bike. I knew I would be running around 8000 RPMs when fully built. The Predator 212 with the PVL flywheel is $246.39. The Ducar is $219.15 with the flywheel... I saved like $25 by getting the Ducar 212 and I know it will hit over 6000 rpms safely with just the governor delete and stage 1. The Ducar comes with 16-18# springs. So, I didn't even have to upgrade the springs on it when I put the Stage 1 kit on it. WIN WIN WIN.

[@TacoStand500]

Tillotson 212 engine was a solid pick with electrical coils! Great power and good parts!

[@boisebadboy93]

What stock valve springs come on the ducar? 18? 22?

[@davidpayne4084]

This guy's on a hole nother level I've been looking at the ducar have not bought one yet went with a wildcat 223 for the build I'm doing no clue how well the motor is as my frame is still got a lot of work left but I'm going to order one for my yard cart try it out thanks for the video

[@fatbuddycat]

Wildcat power!!! Ran mine hard for a few hours yesterday only issues I had was the header rattled loose but I also didn't check the torque after warming up the motor. Oops.

[@davidpayne4084]

@@fatbuddycat I took a Coleman ct200u stretched it a foot and 6 inches in the middle using the ct200uex front suspension I had a set of 22 inch tires and rims laying around for a bubble bike I was on another page seen your comment on a bubble bike going to us my wild cat motor for it Im still finishing the front milk crate mount and a large one for rear

[@fatbuddycat]

@@davidpayne4084 that's awesome!

[@davidpayne4084]

@@fatbuddycat grocery getter

[@nezabytes]

Wildcat engines are significantly stronger than the Tillotson. Look at Redbeard's coverage of the two!

[@Deucealive75]

Best thing about the Ducar (and Tillotson) is if you blow up your clone and get a Ducar 212 you can use your clone flywheel on the Ducar. No Predator BS unique flywheel taper.

[@nezabytes]

Wow, good to know! THANKS!

[@FranklinNewhart]

How about including the Powerfist 212 in this list as well. Available from Princess auto here in Canada.

[@2KRspeed]

Ive been wanting to see the Powerfist too

[@bwxmoto]

Nice vid! I like the Tilly 212E-C that I bought but I should have bought the Ducar because Tilly didn't even come with the PVL but cost quite a bit more than the Ducar. I think Tillotson kept the description on the Tillotson 212E web page stating it has the PVL on the Tillotson website but after the 212E-A, they switched to the regular flywheel and never updated the description. 🤷‍♂️ Oh well it's still a nice engine but I'm going to put a PVL flywheel on there. EDIT- Aug 10, 2021. I found out that the Tilly flywheel is rated for higher RPM but doesn't look like a PVL flywheel. Looks like a regular flywheel with plastic fins but still rated for higher RPM. I bought a PVL and will still use it though.

[@megoingfast]

Tillotson has an interesting future. I'll be very curious what happens now that they bought out PVL.

[@fatbuddycat]

@@megoingfast you know!

[@fatbuddycat]

They need to make more 212R and less 212E. You would love how smooth and powerful it is stock. Without a governor and with a stock billet rod it is amazing. It can support 22s on the stock cam and a 660 carb like it was meant to be. The 212r has all the benefits of the Ducar PLUS a better head, valves and flat top piston to produce more compression than any other 212 on the market.

[@Deucealive75]

Prior to there being anything 212cc the Ducar 196 was one of the best quality clones available, if not the best.

[@bwxmoto]

I would have gotten the 212R if it was in stock anywhere, but the Tilly 212E was $220 + PVL flywheel was about $70. 😬 That's what I get for making spur of the moment purchase. Should have gotten the Ducar and saved a wad of cash.

[@samsgarage1716]

Great information. You make me want to get a Ducar engine.

[@AZNxPrswAZN]

Childish Concepts is awesome! Can you do a comparison of the ducar 196cc to the the ducar 212? I run the 196cc

[@theoldfartschannel3692]

Loved the video. You probably badly bruised some Predator fanatics' feelings, though. 😂🤣

[@POSminiracer]

Always killer info. but please slow down some of the captions. Some of us are older and blindish. Is that this model? Dukar 212 (stock)

[@megoingfast]

Haha, sorry. Will do 😉 www.childishconcepts.com/online-store/Dukar-212-stock-p299495102

[@POSminiracer]

@@megoingfast Also, regarding the helmet, KISS unmasked. I was there for that. Don't do it. ;-)

[@VinzClorthokeymasterofGozer]

@@POSminiracer I remember that as one of the most heartbreaking moments in my young life. KISS turned into a bunch of middle age dudes and not actual demons and aliens and stuff.

[@vinecastle3195]

Anyone else notice... That's not a Hemi engine being tested on the opening video clip?

[@Probablymadeumad]

5:34 made me giggle way harder than it should have

[@thunderj176]

I hear alot of hoot about flathead briggs motors. Could you do a vid about it?

[@joshuagerlach6943]

They’re the best .. simplest design I wish they were cheap & common like predators.. I’ve had many 3,5 & 8s

[@caluzzucarrazzi5549]

Flatheads are gnarly little motors, my personal favourite. Although their ceiling is a little lower in terms of how much power you can make compared to a clone style engine. And they are much more uncommon to find guys who will build/service them and sell parts. But man oh man they are gnarly, in my opinion the best sound out of any of these small displacement singles

[@riverratmarine7259]

When was racing Go-Karts that's all there was were flat heads I raced open classes and they were straight bad to the bone I've yet had a clone engine that is close to how they run but I'm not racing either tho I'm sure they are some out there that is just as strong

[@mattkobylanski3177]

Difference for me is, I have a stocked Harbor Freight down the street. And I have more access to Predator performance parts in my local area.

[@blakestonebustosrb]

All that talking and bongo playing on the engines, which engi e is better??🤷‍♂️

[@anthonyzamano3929]

If I take off the throttle stop screw and do the zip tie trick can my fly wheel blow up

[@mtwseneca]

yes

[@mineer-pg5sv]

Predator engines over here caught lacking

[@GoKartsorGoneFishin]

You found a prop..future air boat?

[@megoingfast]

Maaaaaaaybe ;)

[@devondetoto6274]

can the tillitson 212 engine fit in the B200R coleman mini bike

[@caydongravens5825]

I want the dukar but its double the price

[@brandonmtrujillo]

Love the presentation style.

[@mattsouders2621]

Gopowersports claims that the tillotson 212e has 9+ hp stock and I've heard other KZbin channels claim around 10hp stock on the tillotson has well. The ducar and tillotson being nearly identical, what makes the difference in power? Could it be the Dyno method difference or is there something else I'm missing.

[@JonathanWestcott]

I’m getting into dirt karting in a class that allows both stock predator 212 and stock ducar 212. I think this video makes it clear the ducar is superior for racing in a stock class. That’s what I’m going with.

[@ChristopherJones16]

Another thing one should compare when buying any merchandise and I learned how important this is with buying parts for my desktop computer and that is warranty, customer support, and return policies. HF doesnt have a customer support hotline (i dont think) but does have a decent return policy even if you dont buy insurance. The insurance is an added bonus.. but make sure to remove the gas and oil ;)

[@yojiholmesproductions]

How much of a difference will having a governor vs not having a governor make on the predator 212 non hemi and tillotson 212 and then the Ducar 212 and then the predator 212 hemi?

[@carlo1132]

I love your blue baja, I have one that is 30 years old and looks new. What is your engine recommendations for the Bt200x and RB200, looking for Big Blocks that fit with OMB Riser!

[@megoingfast]

Big block 301-460cc? I don't know of a riser meant for anything but 196-236 class.

[@carlo1132]

@@megoingfast I bought the BT after you raved about it, I honestly like the RT200 better but I need much more speed for the roads, the BT going to need brake upgrade, I figured a BB will get me there with TC, I don't want to cut the chain guards though

[@megoingfast]

@@carlo1132 I have one BT, I have 3 of the RB frame type. For cruising, they are so much better, but I can't take them to ice fishing in winter and I'm a fisherman. Ice roads are a lot slower, and standing in the BT on off road conditions is easier. I'm summer, it's a stunt bike people like to thrash and do wheelies on. If I had a single bike, to use year round, BT. But, in summer I don't ride it nearly as much. The RB is so much more comfortable for sure.

[@Chocolate_dragon]

BT or CT200U for off road and RB for on road. I have all 3 and tend to ride my CT way more than any other bike.

[@TheBiliken]

Don’t you shake your finger at me….lol! Love the vids bud keep em coming. Going to look more at these ducar motors. Unless it makes you poop yourself….lol….never trust a fart!

[@kevincoffey8483]

Mine on a dh212 is cracked in 3 places right now..

[@bossbiking22]

Could you make vids on the trailmaster mb200

[@raymorrison5006]

I bought a pressure washer for $150.00, and I decided to check out the engine info it is a ducar 212

[@956bullypits3]

Bad ass poncho

[@abdullahhoshmand9568]

Too bad they sold out the ducar I’m on the second predator this week wish me luck

[@ilm28403]

@me going fast thank you for all of your entertaining and informative videos. I have learned a great amount on mini bikes and their different power configurations from them. Keep up the good work 👍. Did you ever remove the governor from your Ducar or mess around with the different spring holes on the arm? I just picked one up today to put on my Realtree RT200

[@thunderj176]

The Tilly's flywheel is rated for 10k rpm. But the fine print indicates only for a sustained amount pf time measured in seconds.

[@megoingfast]

True story. I talked to Tillotson a little about it. Didn't go far. I'll be excited to see what comes from Tillotson buying out PVL!

[@thunderj176]

@@megoingfast you said 17k off the flywheel from the Ducar is that my understanding?

[@megoingfast]

@@thunderj176 yes. The PVL flywheel is 17k, the Tillotson does have a different flywheel, carburetor, muffler, pull start plate, and a couple other minor differences.

[@janicefullerton6201]

Love your video great job on the motors! I have one ? Is it possible to use the flywheel from a Ducar 212 and use it on a predator non hemi?

[@dynocams1006]

If you're interested in receiving product to test for video content, contact us at [e-mail]. Thanks for the Ducar plug!

[@bradenclifton45]

Great video! I’m excited about about ported head. Should look into wildcat 223.

[@johnp1804]

Do you know if the Ducar 212 would fit on Manco Big Cat mini bike? It currently has the stock tecumseh 196 on it. It runs alright but a little more go juice might be nice.

[@megoingfast]

Same hole pattern for mounting.

[@yojiholmesproductions]

Please remove the governor completely and redo the test please and thank you.

[@Deucealive75]

There's no need to. On a stock engine ungoverned just gets more RPM, not more power. Even if he did the tests with stage1 kits the maximum HP would be in between 4600 and 5K RPM. You don't even need to remove the governor to get those RPM. Stock cams are only good to around 4800 RPM.

[@troyandrade7980]

Can anybody tell me what kind of top end speed I can expect from a stock Ducar 212 on a mini bike?

[@devondetoto6274]

prob around 30

[@every-istand-ophobe6320]

You mean they put the throttle screw to limit the engine where it makes peak torque? Weird.... Almost like they know where the engine hits peak torque.

[@waytruproductions5646]

Came for the engines stayed for the pancho!

[@bobbylopez3717]

We're can I get a ducar 212 cc motor from

[@jimmycooper7248]

how deep in the hole was Ducar piston?

[@jacopodanglars4836]

Great video, what about the predator 212 ghost are they worth it?

[@Deucealive75]

The Ghost is only worth it if you just want to bolt it on and ride. If you chose a less expensive engine and used the same carb and cam as the Ghost it would have nearly the same or more power than the Ghost at around the same overall cost. If you don't want to open the engine and work with it get the Ghost. If you want to open the engine and work with it get a Ducar 212, Wildcat 223, or Predator 224. Any of those three are better than the Predator 212's.

[@mervyncalder555]

does the ducar have a charging flywheel you can buy ?

[@rickwhitfield7617]

No one could answer this, eh? I too want to find a flywheel / coil option to run a headlight on a minibike. I think the Ducar build is better than the Tilly IMO.

[@MrPooponit]

Thanks man.

[@jjrcs8357]

This is great

[@AZNxPrswAZN]

It’s a lovely poncho

[@waytruproductions5646]

That drum solo tho...

[@joshuagerlach6943]

Know anything about a gx200 with a gx 160 head on it ?

[@megoingfast]

Head or just a stamp? A guy named Jason sold the gx200s stamped gx160 years back. If you mean head fit, I've never made one.

[@joshuagerlach6943]

@@megoingfast an actual gx 160 head Taken off, ported, polished, lapped valve, stiffer springs & mounted on a gx 200 block governor Removed, compression release removed for a super low idle. Slotted coil mount for timing, Stock keihin carburetor port matched to both the velocity stack & intake with the choke butterfly removed & the hole plugged, 38” of header pipe with a super trapp 250 muffler Pushing a 10-42 gear on a 13x6.50 -6 slick In a early 70s Cat Duster chopper .

[@fatbuddycat]

@@joshuagerlach6943 I put 14cc heads on my 196s!

[@Cheap-Nasty]

My brother did the swap and a mild cammed gx200. I dont think he ported it at all but just that change made a decent difference I'd think due to more compression moving the air faster.

[@fatbuddycat]

@@Cheap-Nasty I do it for compression. My gx160 is an Everest 168f block, Honda gx 160 (163) cam, 168f crank, 383 long rod, short skirt Honda piston, Honda 14cc head/valves and a PVL+4. Snappy little bugger!

[@toonsvision23]

Can you still pull start with 34lb springs

[@megoingfast]

If you have a very good compression release on your cam. Some people do up to 34-36, but it can be a wrist snapper if lash not set with very close tolerance. Best source of information will be contacting the cam manufacturer for details. They will know best.

[@sandmanbub]

@Whoop!

[@samuelyniguez3816]

That was interesting 🤔

[@fatbuddycat]

They need more 212Rs in this world!!!

[@megoingfast]

EC has been using their supply on parts that line up to the 212r to put out other engines. The 212r kinda hit a wall as well with the launch when it was advertised as 12hp stock and was not. Lots of drama and opportunity both in that engine.

[@megoingfast]

I agree though. Nice platform.

[@fatbuddycat]

@@megoingfast I think it makes 12hp with no governor, stiffer springs and a carb ON the stock cam but I have no idea how that number came up. I noticed that with parts when I went to buy the complete 212r head for my Wildcat too.

[@fatbuddycat]

They ain't no Tilllotson 212R!

[@Gone_rn]

My Tilly hemi is much better than the r 😂

[@fatbuddycat]

@@Gone_rn not stock. Get you the same EC factory mods and you might be up to it. Otherwise your just pumping a Ducar without an oil sensor or PVL. You can build a 212E (hemi) just fine. I hear they are great base engines.

[@Gone_rn]

@@fatbuddycat I'm making 15 hp right now and would whoop the absolute shit out of you. Let me know when you reach over 60 on a go kart from your motor 😂

[@fatbuddycat]

@@Gone_rn that's on a built motor. 60 sounds like street stuff. Everything I build is for dirt and geared for 45 or less. 15 hp? Whats that full stage 2? I might have a few built motors but nothing geared for 60 or with the brakes to get off of it. My Wildcat on juggernaut will get 60 with gears. My Hemi will get it with gears. Hemi-Non-Hemi......gx160......they can all get 60 if you aim for it. An ungoverned, billet rod, 22s and a 660 carb on a 212r will get you somewhere.....I mean a 0-30 is going to tell you a whole lot more than 60.....I'm not sure what got you all in an uproar brother. A stock 212r is better than a stock 212e or Ducar. It's just straight up built for it. It's not a big deal. Those 212e are great base engines but if you were running a budget your gonna get a whole lot more value with a 212r.

[@Gone_rn]

@@fatbuddycat no stage 2. The truth is that tillotson lied about the 212r's hp number. The stock hemi 212 makes more hp stock

[@Kassel348]

I was interested in this video but you wearing the helmet was so distracting... I couldn't finish it. What's wrong with you head?

[@stinkybritches4540]

I love my Ducar!