tim burton, anti-blackness, and podcast nonsense.

[@harriyanna]

all products are 50% off! no code is needed, discount applied at checkout to orders $10 or more! harriyannahook.com/

[@Bebop8ubby]

I'm not sure this is the right place to be making recommendations, and if it isn't please notify me...Can you please do a character and audience analysis on Mel Medarda from Arcane? There are very few complex black female characters like her in present media I can hold onto and yet I fear she'll just be fridged in season 2.

[@giancarlojacobs9982]

As a Black person I have argued NUMEROUS times with non-Black POCs who use Jenna Ortega as Tim Burton's get-out-of-jail-free card when it comes to his racism towards Blacks. Jenna is not white , true. However, she is pale with dark hair, big eyes and a tiny body...OF COURSE Tim Burton would make her his new muse. It doesn't change the fact that every Black person is an anti-hero or villan in the few roles he gives them. Oh except in the case of actor Michael Clarke Duncan (the Black actor from Green Mile who Tim Burton cast to play a literal gorilla in Planet of the Apes......) Let dat sink in yall.

[@toriyt2714]

@@giancarlojacobs9982 I bet Jenna check white for the census lol

[@kadinelindsayart]

I’m tired of people not calling White Latinas white. Please remember that Spain were colonizers. Spain is in Europe

[@kadinelindsayart]

Jennie is white. Please look up conquistador

[@sapphic.flower]

Wednesday's skin is also lightened in post and all her love interests are white. Casting a Hispanic lead who still fits into the narrow visual standards of Tim Burton's aesthetic still doesn't negate that he centers whiteness.

[@tadmira127dreamuvtadmir2]

Girl, when we talk about WHITE we refer as someone skin color…JENNA, Koreans are white, they have a white pale skin so they are white when we talk about skin color. Jenna is not black

[@Shamazya]

There really is no need for people to justify claiming Black people don't fit an aesthetic. That's just wrong and insulting. Him limiting his imagination and effort is a him problem.

[@chayo4537]

@@Shamazya arent black people an aesthetic in of itself 😂 dont non black people talk, walk and try to dress like black people? Isnt that an aesthetic?! 🤔 These non blacks and non americans cant be interesting on their own without simulating black women and american culture

[@alexbennet4195]

If a black director had an “aesthetic” where they only liked to cast dark-skinned people… would that also be wrong and insulting?

[@mari89146]

​@@alexbennet4195 not you coming up with an imaginary scenario of black people opressing white people, when you can be holding actual racists accountable instead

[@njcapone]

@@alexbennet4195but if a mouse said this about a kia sorento ??? ? ??

[@alexbennet4195]

@@mari89146 wait, you think a black director making that kind of casting choice would be “оррressing whіte реople”??

[@myshavikes6263]

Saying Black folks don't fit into his "high contract aesthetic" is actually wild! Like all the shades of Black folks and you can't find any to cast? I feel like the darker the skin and deeper the undertone, the easier it is to contrast. So dark skin folks would actually be ideal... He's literally wrong and loud asl.

[@mari89146]

As a brown latina, whoever said Tim Burton isn't anti-black because he casted Jena Ortega must've been high 💀 I don't understand how him feeling comfortable enough to cast a mestiza woman, somehow negates his anti-black views. And in general, if a person isn't racist to one specific group of people, that doesn't mean they can't be racist to another specific group of people.

[@harriyanna]

people think him working with jenna removes how he "used" to feel about poc when it doesn't say much because even though jenna is not white she is a light bright. i have nothing against jenna btw, i have liked her since stuck in the middle but people are goin out of their way to defend this man when he NEVER APOLOGIZED.

[@mari89146]

@@harriyanna I like Jenna Ortega, since she left the Scream franchise in response to Melissa Barrera's firing for being Pro-Palestine. So I have nothing against her either. But she is definitely one of those mestizo people who white people will deem "acceptable." Hence why I think its laughable to think Tim Burton isn't racist because he worked with a light skinned person of color. (Btw for any non-latinos reading, mestizo is a term in Latin America that refers to people of mixed European and Indigenous descent. Mexico for example, is a country that is largely mestizo, hence why many of us have various shades of brown skin.)

[@alexbennet4195]

@appleapologistno one thinks they’re “dark”…? Unless they mean “dark” for white people. Because they definitely are “dark” white people. But not “dark” for… people in general lol

[@alexbennet4195]

Isn’t there a main character who’s actually black in the show?

[@mari89146]

​@appleapologist Back when it was announced that Rachel Zegler was going to play Snow White, I remember seeing one racist calling her "Mud Brown." It left me in a shock. Both for the blatant anti-brown/mestizo racism, and that the fact they thought Zegler was that dark? People are so terrified of melanin, that they're out here calling people with fluorescent beige skin "mud." Its so baffling.

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

To the people excusing folk: seeing a creator you used to watch say problematic stuff sucks, but accept it. They're not your perfect munchkin, they're a famous creator who has issues. Is it that hard to go "You're right, there's hardly any black characters and if they are they're villains. Saying it's an "aesthetic" is just anti-black racism"

[@annabarbour-my5ko]

i notice african americans like me ( on tiktok by the way ) who seen the new beetlejuice beetlejuice criticize "the soul train scene" , that part of the "sequel" is Really Racist and "played for laughs" as joke , the scene in the netherworld shows an large group of black ghost in 70s style clothes dancing with 70s style music infront of train in an "Underground Railroad" with an looklike of the host from Soul Train ( which was an actual show in the 70s ) announcing different locations , Tim Burton thought this was "okay" to put in An Movie to put in the year 2024 , that's not right

[@thegirlwiththetattoo444]

@@annabarbour-my5ko I remember seeing this in theaters with my boyfriend, looking back on it the scene was weird. I never looked deep into the allegations but i dont really feel comfortable seeing his films in theaters after this vid. tim burtons style just reminds me of my childhood, so i am a fan of some of his works especially Beetlejuice. But when the soul train scene happened in the sequel it just seemed extremely…long. Like at first I laughed because “haha wacky dancing scene” (they have many drawn out musical scenes which i wasn’t a fan of). But the longer the scene went on the more it felt like it wasn’t funny because they were dancing, it was funny because they were a group of dancing black people from the 70s. The longer it went on the more uncomfortable I got. “Soul Train” is a good halloween joke but the scene did not have to hammer the disco joke home like that.

[@abbeysnails]

Yeah ever since I found that article after being curious as to why Tim has never cast a black lead and reading that it doesn’t match his aesthetic is very insulting to me and I just can’t support or rewatch his movies. I’ve had peers call me crazy and say that he’s free to his creative ideas and they’re right he is and I have the right to not support. But he’s a fool and just because he hired Jenna Ortega doesn’t excuse him!!!

[@tadmira127dreamuvtadmir2]

Jenna Ortega is not black tho, she is a white Latina

[@abbeysnails]

@@tadmira127dreamuvtadmir2 exactly! But his fans think by hiring a white latino excuses him it’s so wild to me

[@andiman44]

Tim Burton’s anti-blackness is why Wednesday and all his other movies (minus Edward Scissorhands that I didn’t realize was his) are a hard pass for me.

[@Outlawgirl1297]

I love Ed Wood I get it

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

“And podcast nonsense” is sending me 🤣🤣🤣

[@TreeHairedGingerAle]

You didn't miss anything by skipping Wednesday. 😒 Burton _ruined_ The Addams Family. If you watch the nineties movies with Raul Julia, you find that The Addams weren't JUST creepy and spooky. They weren't JUST about aesthetic. The real point of The Addams Family was that they were an unprecedented depiction of an actually HEALTHY marriage and family. Gomez and Morticia had a relationship that was not adversarial: they were a team. They were careful of each other's consent, and had each other's back. They each had their own hobbies and friends, but also had time to be supportive and passionate; and truly enjoyed spending time in each other's company. They were about as far the fuck away from that awful sitcom, 'Married with Children', as you can get. The couple similarly minded the wishes of their children: treating them like individuals, rather than 'mini-mes' to be programmed, bossed around, and controlled. Both parents and children respected, protected, and loved one another. Both the marriage, and the family interpersonal dynamics, were attentive, communicative, and caring. ....AND of course, the sheer difference between the sword fight in the nineties' movies, and the sword fight in Burton's failure, were COMPLETELY different. Julia's Gomez gets to be wild, competent, and joyful during the fight -- because he is an Addams. A madman. An adventurer. He shows no fear. Meanwhile, Wednesday's Gomez and Morticia don't get to show off any of a true Addams' flair for life and their chosen dark attitudes. They are completely opposite their own long-standing characterizations. Gomez bumbles, fear-stricken, while Morticia practically rings her hands anxiously like a wasp-y suburban housewife. There was _nothing_ "Addams Family" about that show -- and Wednesday herself only deepens the dissonance further, by showing an almost puritan-tinged annoyance at her parents' romantic interactions, and distrust of her mother. In short: Burton's show was all empty aesthetic; with the MEANING and HEART of what actually makes The Addams Family fun, surprising, and unique, ripped out. All image. No substance.

[@kenrickbautista6141]

My favorite Tim Burton movies are: the 'Batman' series, 'The Nightmare Before Christmas', 'Corpse Bride', 'Beetlejuice' and 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory'. But yeah, it's kinda disappointing.

[@NewSonyWonderHappyMadisonFan]

Tim Burton didn't direct Nightmare Before Christmas. Henry Selick (the guy who directed Coraline) did.

[@kenrickbautista6141]

@@NewSonyWonderHappyMadisonFan oh.

[@cyclonecatastroph]

NBC is racist too look it up. The villain is played by a black man and Oogie Boogie is an African American slur

[@SammySesame]

I love Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, but the movie and just the book in general has a bad problem with it's characters and major fatphobia.

[@kenrickbautista6141]

@@SammySesame true

[@mermaiddiyartist8119]

He needs to be called out in the mainstream!!!!

[@JulianSteve]

I know I’ve seen a few of Tim Burton’s movies. However, not his recent stuff. So, I’m good in that department! As for the two British guys being anti-black….. It’s really sad how comfortable they were disparaging Black women in that interview. Plus, this wasn’t their first incident of humiliating Black women. Hopefully, they lose a lot of support from this incident🤷🏾‍♂️⭐️

[@silvercheetah92]

Remember Nightmare Before Christmas is not a Tim Burton movie it's a Henry Selick movie. Selick is the real director they just slapped Burton's name on that guy's work.

[@elmoworld850]

If you are tired of Anti-blackness in the media, don't watch shows that ruin your image! - Norbit - Dan Schneider's shows - Madea - Tim Burton's Film - Etc.

[@miserych1ck]

@@elmoworld850 while that’s good advice in the sense to not support those creators, it doesn’t change anything. when ignorant people do watch these forms of media, they will take that as a representative for all black people.

[@priscilla8068]

Add Tyler Perry movies to the list😭

[@elmoworld850]

@miserych1ck Yes, but people complain about the terrible representation while still watching these films. It does hurt to stop watching these things in the media.

[@thebillroku]

I really liked Tim Burton's atmospherical movies, but since his ''poc doesn't fit my aesthetic'' I am unable watch anything from him

[@mermaiddiyartist8119]

I never knew he was like this 😒😒😒hell No. I love some of his movies but can’t support this behavior. There’s so many beautiful gothic people of all races. ❤

[@kadinelindsayart]

Trying to make Tim Burton diverse and inclusive is such a delusional request. OFC Tim Burton is anti black. The entire world before 2020 openly was. I need my generation to grow up. Let’s just boycott and support black gothic work. It’s feels like a waste of time of time. I really enjoyed Tim Burtons works, but idk but I never say myself in his universe. I’m an artist and (before the racist comments) I was really artistically inspired. I don’t think I ever felt like I wanted to be in his universe. Because QUITE FRANKLY his universe looks like a racist one. WHY WHY WHY do people want him to write black character, when that black character WILL horribly written

[@harriyanna]

exactly like i just don't care anymore i will take my support somewhere else

[@tadmira127dreamuvtadmir2]

People didn’t know(me including) he was like that, I literally found about him being anti black the last month 😂, and I also never actually thought about “mmm I don’t see black people in his movies” but someone was talking about that and make me curious so I find about what he said, and was dissapoining…..we are talking about that know cuz we some black people who loved his “art” were dissapoined

[@ThePistol_Papi]

The fact I was watching your vids faithfully and some how stopped is on me I love your material and glad I’m back on your channel

[@chipchipcheerio]

Ehhh idk. I’d say Jenna Ortega is a white Latina just like the girl who’s playing the live action Snow White

[@JulianSteve]

Same here. I’ll have to see Jenna’s parents to figure it out. Until then, she’s a a White Latina like Rachel Zegler😅💯

[@harriyanna]

julian 😭😭😭

[@JulianSteve]

@@harriyanna I’m just saying. Great video😭!

[@priscilla8068]

A white latina for me is someone like Anya Taylor Joy(from the Queen's Gambit). Jenna Ortega is a mestiza latina. I mean mestiza latina do enjoy some white privilege but saying they are white latinas is a bit wild bc it negates the colourism and racism they face. Just look at the racist backlash the girl from Snow White got.

[@CarlaBee-k4w]

​@JulianSteve That's not how it works though. There are plenty of people in Latin America who are half Black/Indigenous/etc., but look, and therefore are, phenotypically white. If the term white Latina only included people who are almost entirely European, then half of white Latin Americans would no longer be considered white. In Latin America, race isn't what you are ethnically, it's what you look like.

[@WerewolfCat890]

i love your makeup! it's unique, i love how you incorporate the face gems!! 😊

[@kenyasmith2652]

The only film that Tim Burton directed that had decent Black characters was Pee-wee’s Big Adventure. It had a Black bicycle shop owner named Chuck and a Black policewoman. Big Adventure was Burton’s first time working on a movie, but I think that it was Paul Reubens (the man who played Pee-wee Herman) who was responsible for including those two characters in the film as well as for the diversity in Pee-wee’s Playhouse. You had a Black cowboy, a Black mail lady, and even a Black king. I guess Burton had forgotten about Big Adventure.

[@trika91]

The only Burton movie I can think of with a HEROIC black character was from Mars Attacks, where Jim Brown played a boxer who (literally) fought the martians (and lived). Looking back at his filmography, black characters only played background, one-off, or secondary roles. They never (if rarely) played a part where they had an impact in the plot; with POC (mainly of dark complexion) just being there for ‘brownie points’ or because someone else requested it.

[@CrazyStoneTiger]

What about Gunnar in Planet of the Apes? He was pretty bad ass.

[@Outlawgirl1297]

Edward Scissorshands

[@naomiruiz30]

Great video! I grew up watching some of his movies so this does make me side eye him. Your makeup is so cute!! 🥰💚💛

[@jdhvnnibun2983]

I really like how this makeup turned out~ I feel like it’s giving winx 🧚🏾‍♀️

[@harriyanna]

thank you so much!

[@DorianDreamz]

I have watched ONE Burton movie. That trashass Charlie and The Chocolate Factory bc they made us watch it in school. I REFUSE to watch his movies. Period

[@thefelicits]

I love your makeup look for whatever it's worth! The green looks stunning and the crystal tears are so cute and creative

[@Leebardshowling]

I was literally abt to comment that

[@TheTranquilMadness]

So glad you're talking about this--I didn't know this about Tim Burton, but now I know to avoid his works from now on. This vid also helped me realize that I've watched your videos before but hadn't subbed until today.

[@harriyanna]

thank you for subbing

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

Women who go to awful podcasts get a noticeable increase in fans subscribing to them or are paid to be there. They often don't do it to prove a point or because they hate themselves, it's a business decision. Suffer through those incels and get more success. It sucks but ...yeah

[@fishyb8598]

Hope you're feeling better! You are so hard on yourself about your makeup but you always nail it! As someone that struggles to keep up with hollywood news, I had no idea he even said this! Thank you for doing a video on it, wild the things these famous assholes can get away with saying!

[@cyclonecatastroph]

Hope you feel better and I personally think you're gorgeous and breathtaking

[@selwatchesyt]

Hope you feel better soon 💜

[@thegeckojo5803]

Hello! Love your work!

[@harriyanna]

hiii thank you so much!

[@ziaForest]

Beetlejuice is the ONE thing of his I fuck with but mostly because of nostalgia, through piracy or fan made stuff where he doesn't get a dime. Idgaf about his newer shit

[@jbbelenkokoro2673]

You may say that you are bad at make-up tutorials, but your completed look is very cute and eye-catching.

[@SammySesame]

Came to see peak today.

[@Spyderinagourd]

Its completely true that far too many are too lazy and comfortable with remainin ignorant and immature, we have people that do try to push the intellect and culture forward but they dont get the same motion simple minded shit does. Its a two prong problem of black productive voices dont get pushed by algorithms but also the loudest most ignorant members of the community who need it dont seek it out and engage with it enough even when people try to coddle them and take a soft approach.

[@lloroshastar6347]

I'm a 'white' person from the UK and I just don't understand why so many people don't want to stop being racist. I mean, yeah sure they don't like being called racist, but they never want to put in the work to change the inherent systemic racism that influences their thinking and attitude. Like I get it, it's not nice to find out you have been manipulated to hold racist views from birth, but surely knowing that should be an enlightening moment, not something to be offended by. I also heard what Tim Burton said and objected to it, and found a lot of people insisting that Burton just 'feels Black people don't fit his aesthetic'. I couldn't believe how far they had to go to defend this position, ironically these are the same people who will say that people should be hired on the merits of their ability, but apparently Tim Burton is fine to discriminate on the basis of race no matter how well suited an actor is for his film because of this BS excuse of an 'aesthetic'. It doesn't make sense anyway because he's hired Black people before in his movies, he was just asked why they are usually a minority in his movies if hired at all.

[@CovenantQuarter]

It's true. The aesthetic is gothic, pale and dead like.

[@tcwentertainment]

4:28 I do think alot of peoples sadness from instances from levels of putting people like this on a pedastal personally , now as for its his opinion while obviously true that doesnt meam people cant side eye it if it looks and sounds crazy still.

[@wonderingjibril1210]

Here's the name that I would like to say about anyone who's talking about the way he does his films or the reasons why. Let's be frank there is very easy ways of making people of darker skin tone appear in films that are often black and white we can see this in many old Hollywood movies. So that excuses out the question okay second of all from the area and the way he does his films He does have a certain art style that he tends to keep in you This is something that we see easily on Twitter or x when it comes to certain artists and their art styles being put over two different styles usually lacking people of color and I'm not just talking about African Americans. This is something that we see in large quantities and very popular media and as someone from a gaming background I can tell you I see this quite often in a lot of video games. Because we get these excuses that people make up these justifications and they're not even remotely liable. I like to think of the final fantasy notion a game made by people who are not European at all tends to have most characters being of European background and most of the characters that are not are animalized in a certain way. This is something we see drew out many fantasy franchises from the ogres who often have black features or people of color features. And this is just one of many tropes that we see like this when it comes to cartoons and fantasies yes over the past couple of years I would say what shows like Steven universe and many other kid shows and movies we are seeing a bit more diversity. We are seeing characters of colors no matter their backgrounds having their communities represented more and not just being a standalone feature within these cartoons surrounded by those outside of their race or culture. But this was something he never wanted to do in the first place and he never had to do I often want to tell people just because you enjoyed the work and the person doesn't mean that they can't be doing something wrong. And this doesn't give you a right to also then act like because you like this person their option or their actions aren't affecting other people. Just say you like his work that's fine but do not say that he doesn't have certain biases. This is something that we can see a lot racism is not a habit It is not something that can be grown away is something that's usually deeply internal and subconsciously done because it's the way the individuals were raised. That is a learned behavior It is something that comes naturally to people when they are raised a certain way and it's something that takes years to undo and unlearn. If the individual is willing to do that I can tell you now he never had to do that so it's not something that he even will address and many of the fans will not because they don't see a problem because that's considered normal. Not the racism but the exclusion of other people who are normally in any environment around you in the individuals making these movies being excluded.

[@cyclonecatastroph]

I was a fan of Tim's work till recently. I'm white and I'm not okay with his racist views. It's f\*\*ked up. I can't tolerate it as a leftist. However, I do have a question. I recently designed a goth outfit of mine with Jack Skellington. Should I change it? Is that offensive since I know NBC isn't Tim's it's Henry Selick that directed it. But Tim did produce it and create the concepts and characters and based the villlian off of an African American slur and cast a black man to be that character. So I'm conflicted and would like to know everyone's opinions on that if it's okay or not to still have a theme like that or if it's tained and should change it. I seriously want to know because I'm so conflicted.. and I love Nightmare Before Christmas.. I worked really hard to DIY everything too.. Please let me know thanks for the feedback for anyone who decides to comment/respond. I appreciate it. Sorry if this comes off as a stupid question lol.

[@CovenantQuarter]

No its not offensive

[@alheiye]

Get well soon 🍵 🫶🏽

[@Rebelheart1985]

I love his work but like……boy you literally said you don’t have POC in general half the time because we don’t fit your aesthetic (white)……there ain’t no defending that.

[@synschoolinyounoobsakathemaske]

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@et_puis]

Hatin' on Les Femmes Noires is so fetch right now.

[@mayalunics4740]

How many black people here are offended by Tim Burtons statement but also claim that Kamala Harris isn't black ?! Just curious.

[@antwonewilliams2184]

@@mayalunics4740 Because she's not

[@mayalunics4740]

@@antwonewilliams2184 Are you offended by Tim Burton statement?

[@tcwentertainment]

6:00 I don't really see the issue with this, you didn't call him anything crazy and just saidn ou werent interested in viewing his products anymore. My biggest gripe with what he said wouldnt even be he doesnt have black people in his films much or in main character roles, itd be since his reason appears to sound like he views black people (presumably on a greater scale since you said he just said black people not any specific sector or anything which still wouldn't really help his case) in general as low-income poverty stricken despots

[@CovenantQuarter]

Well...look at the charts

[@TylerRakstis]

Great, now you have to throw Tim Burton under the bus?

[@princekyle4132]

@@TylerRakstis Did you… not listen to a single thing she said? 💀

[@TylerRakstis]

@@princekyle4132 No, but even if the video isn't like the title said (As you said) I do wish that it was at least not sound like cancel-culture rage bait. Plus, I would've watched these videos, but even then, it's not helping that it's making me more depressed. Reminding me of how much life sucks and we can't have nice things anymore if people can't make up their minds on what the hell they want.

[@hzitoinsin]

@@TylerRakstis So what makes you depressed is that people get checked on their racism, but not the racism itself? Poor thing. Life sucks indeed.

[@TylerRakstis]

@@hzitoinsin Well it unfortunately does. Because stuff like this makes it feel like it's turning entertainment into a chore.

[@hzitoinsin]

@@TylerRakstis I wish I was as priviledged as you are. But sadly, racism is a constant debuff for me, be it in real like or within entertainment. I don't get to be depressed about my fav being called racist since most of the time said racism is directed towards me. Enterainment is a chore for those of us would are always on the receiving end of nastyness. But I'm glad that you're honest about how you feel like not disrespecting others is a chore, I'll know not to expect much from you if you ever respond. Still from a depressed person to another, I'd advise you go take a walk, eat something you like or go see a shrink, because villainizing and invalidating black people when we talk about anti-blackness won't make you feel better, especially when you eventually get checked about being on the racists' side. I'm not banking on your ability to feel empathy for others, so do it for yourself at least, you clearly know how to center yourself and prioritise your own comfort so it shouldn't be too hard.