🍀 Tipping A Pint & Draining The Brains - Autoline After Hours 456 🍀

[@ronaldanderson9263]

Guys, I drive an aging Chevy Astro Cargo van with my company logo on it and drive it maybe 200 miles a week around rural Colorado. I want an Nissan env-200 all electric cargo van or equivalent so bad I can't see straight. But they are inexplicably not available in the US. This used to be a cool country to have been born in. I don't want one for fuel economy or even emissions but low / no maintenance. Nothing to worry about but shocks springs and wheel hubs and tires!

[@aussie2uGA]

I also found their comment about America "has basically lost tool & die capability" astounding. You had a generation that educated and setup these plants in China because it was cheaper. Now that millennials type all day on keyboards for higher wages, you have an unskilled American workforce that would probably have to ask the Chinese how to recreate machining tools. Thats your real declaration of a national security emergency.

[@YoursNKR]

No oil changes or filters to change. Even the brake pads last years due to regen.

[@ronaldanderson9263]

Or, rod bearings, main seal leaks, piston ring failures, pistons, U-Joints, fuel injectors, sparky plugs or ignition coils. - This is partly why the big 3 auto makers don't run into the arms of EVs today. They make a fortune on parts you don't want to have to replace in the first place. They are all concerned about can they make a profit. This was not Elon's first concern was it? No it was to bring EVs into the world more better. This is why the big 3 are doomed. Elon is much like Steve Jobs in that we brought a kingdom killer to the market and killed off the big computer cartel. Like the mp3 killed the entire music "industry" / cartel stranglehold they enjoyed on consumers. One enslavement at a time. chip chip chip away. I'd love to see Dorman fall. What a consumer shaft they are. "Here, are parts far cheaper than OEM parts, they won't work, but here anyway" Can you tell I'm Po' ed? :-)

[@mbukukanyau]

Ronald Anderson , That is not the case with electrics, but, you could get an electric van from Via motors.. google them.. owned by Lutz...

[@ronaldanderson9263]

@@mbukukanyau, Hey thanks! I went to their site and asked for a quote FWIW. They only offer their cargo van in 2wd which won't cut it here where there is snow on the ground all but 5 months out of the year. Nevertheless I let em take a shot at me so we'll see what comes of it.

[@ultrastoat3298]

Please please please comment on the fact that OEMs are building compliance vehicles. They suck and nobody likes them. They do it intentionally because ultimately they don’t want to build EV’s.

[@jtmcanada234]

I like the compliance Kia Soul EV it's actually a pretty fun car to drive

[@nigelweir3852]

UltraStoat oem’s shitting themselves behind the scenes

[@AnthonyTolhurst-dw1nc]

Everybody is wary of change. Especially those who have a lot lose.

[@claytonroot806]

When John talked about his buddy saying NOT to by an EV because they'll be hopelessly obsolete in short order, he didn't even mention Tesla's "Over-The-Air" updates. Teslas just keep getting better and better as they age. Getting the vehicle down the road simply requires an electric motor, batteries, and control circuits. With the performance a Tesla already has, HOW does that become obsolete? The rest of the vehicle is simply a computer on wheels. Couple that with attractive, rather than dorky, styling AND their Supercharger network and you MIGHT understand why Tesla's sales are escalating and other EV's sit awaiting a home. For me, their are certain amenities that just HAVE to be there before I will consider ANY vehicle, whether it be ICE or EV. One is a Power Driver's Seat, preferably with memory positions but at least power adjustable. Well there goes the Chevy Volt as that was NOT available at any price. Comfortable seating? There goes the Chevy Bolt. Pleasant styling? There goes the Chevy Bolt again, and the Nissan Leaf. While I wouldn't consider the Kona or the Niro EV beautiful vehicles, they're at least heading in a direction preferred by most buyers. I find the forthcoming (?????) vehicles from VW group INTERESTING, especially the Audi E-Tron GT and the Audi Q4 E-Tron compact SUV. The VW ID concepts also look compelling but we need to yet see production versions. I found the Porsche Mission E gorgeous but the resultant Taycan leaves me cold.

[@bluezcluez315]

Why is there always an asterisk about EV sales except for Tesla? They are a US auto-maker competing like everyone else.

[@Obscurai]

The asterisk is necessary because they don't understand the shift. Also because, it is too early to tell if Tesla can sustain their sales numbers or if their sales are just because of pent-up demand.

[@redxsage]

@@Obscurai -- Too early? NaySayers have spent the past *SIX YEARS* saying _"we don't know yet -- if this is 'just pent up demand' or 'just a passing fad'"..._ When the Tesla Model S has had continually growing sales the whole time. The Tesla Model 3 has consistently outsold the Model S over a year. The only full calendar year that Model S didn't outsell Mercedes-Benz S-Class was 2014. 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018...? The Model S has outsold all its high end flagship competition in the U.S. consistently, consecutively, and in some cases, combined.

[@Obscurai]

@@redxsage Yes, the Model S has been successful in their market segment - hence the shift by the luxury brands to match Tesla's offering. The same cannot be said yet regarding the Model 3 - although indicators are good at this point. Success in one market segment cannot be assumed for another one. This quarter's numbers when compared with other manufacturers will be telling - they should be good. So we have about 2 weeks to wait for a more definitive answer.

[@blitzbbffl]

Sensor dependent autonomous vehicles will be 💯% dependable during the beautiful fall/winter/spring weather here in the US, even during our springtime bomb-cyclones!

[@free_spirit1]

I think the reason many people in europe don't buy many hybrids is simply because they don't save much fuel as you'd think. I don't think it's because of lack of familiarity.

[@electrictroy2010]

Also Europeans are used to getting up to 70 MPG from diesel cars like the 3-cylinder Lupo. The hybrid looks unimpressive next to that (and adds extra battery/complexity). So Europeans stick with the basic non-hybrid cars

[@burnie773]

Tesla makes money , Just ask Sandy Munro , i seem to remember him telling you guys what he thought the margins were on the tesla model 3 , which is the top produced ev sedan in north America . He also said tesla had industry best in terms of its batteries . just love the way you guys sit around and talk about ice vehicles . Old guys , old technology , old school mind set , fossil fuel addicts and sometimes you talk electric which is the here and now . Tesla is the up and coming industry and that was even born out by that abc list segment you included . Look forward to tuning in 3 years from now to see how your transport ideology has stood the test of time .

[@electrictroy2010]

Tesla EV is selling great. Other brand EVs from GM, Nissan, etc are flops in sales.... that’s their point. ALSO: You cannot just force people to buy EVs if they’d rather have traditional engines. As long as customers demand gasoline cars, the tech will still survive .

[@daveborinski3021]

electrictroy2010 Actually, you don’t have to provide new ICE cars for purchase. People don’t like change. And as long as every drop of fuel is subsidized by tax payers and owners don’t have to take responsibility for cleaning up the mess they leave behind, you will see people wanting ICE cars. Include those costs as a tax on new vehicle purchases, the demand would dry up overnight.

[@DocWolph]

@@daveborinski3021 As much as I don't like them, dropping the fuel subsidy would at worst increase gas prices $0.50 a gallon. It is nothing more than a political favor to those who do not require it, from politician who do not deserve to be reelected.

[@JanBruunAndersen]

@@electrictroy2010 - Actually, governments can force people to switch to EV. And governments in EU will do that. Several cities in Sweden have toll booths for entering the inner city. It used to be free for EV's, but not any longer. I would not bet against that policy being reversed in the future if all promises being made by politicians about reducing CO2 emissions by 10, 20, 30% in X numbers of years. One thing that you people in the USA often forget is that the total population of USA is around 330 million. The EU is home to 500 million people, and much more populated = shorter road trips. The car market is much better suited to EV's than the USA. US car manufacturers that ignore this fact do so at their own peril.

[@tennislite]

@@JanBruunAndersen . Good point about the difference in US and EU market. It takes more than 7 hrs for me to drive accross my state of NC.

[@karlp8484]

You are right, the so-called "legacy" manufacturers were slow getting into EVs because they are not in a rush to lose money. EVs are not going to satisfy investors and customers until solid-state batteries come out. Then the ICE is dead meat.

[@bluezcluez315]

Karl P Tesla seems to be satisfying investors and customers without solid-state

[@YoursNKR]

Ahh!! Watching the pros, tackling key industry issues for the better part of 90 minutes !! Time well spent, a bit biased but, Can you blame them? Giving up the industry they grew up loving and look up to!

[@earlpottinger671]

Yes! Being an expert means also saying I was wrong, or I don't understand.

[@electrictroy2010]

HAPPY 10th ANNIVERSARY! Since April 2009 .

[@adamrichards7630]

But the model 3 is 35k right now ??

[@JanBruunAndersen]

Shhh! Don't inject facts into the FUD discussions.

[@adamrichards7630]

Jan Bruun Andersen honestly well known information that they just gloss over lol. Like I’d love to know what other negative thing he had to say if he was corrected with that information 😂😂

[@caspear27]

1:15:30 - Excluding GM, auto companies I'd guess make at least a multiple of three when it comes to "net profit" per defense contract dollar compared to a Lockheed or Boeing, due to their functional understanding or operational competency of free market economics by selling cars to regular consumers. Management by logic rather than meat! Great show. Not to short sell Mr. Robinet, but Mr. Chesbrough is like the "car guys" Patton Oswalt you just want to give him a hug.

[@AnthonyTolhurst-dw1nc]

You go and build such a company. Get off your heinie and show them how! We bag the shit out of them any way we can, At least you get a motor car. And your government taxes the shit out it. If you don’t like it, buy a skateboard. . .

[@selmateacher7]

LOL what the guy says before the show starts , thinking the mic is off... funny ..

[@cassidybb10]

Your mention of "you cant drive like we used to there just no where to go. There's too much traffic " is exactly what my 75 year old uncle in the Fortworth are says to. And why he's thinking of giving up his Cadillac sport sedan (model bellow the V series) up for the Cadillac XT5. lower the payment same luxury.

[@blitzbbffl]

Imho Toyota is one of the smartest Tier-1 manufacturers, and they are playing the long game when comes to producing BEVs.

[@jtmcanada234]

We won't know for a few years... right now they look like they are falling behind. Even though the Prius Prime is probably the best hybrid on the market

[@ramblerandy2397]

Every time the subject of BEVs, and especially Tesla comes up, Gary Vasilash cannot hide his bias. I'm pretty much convinced he doesn't want Tesla to succeed.

[@caspear27]

34:50 - John's correct, the economics of EVs "washout" around approx $0.25/kWh w/$2.00/per gallon petrol for 20~25 MPG people movers.

[@occamai]

So in actual costs: California gas sits around $4/gallon... at 25mpg, $0.16/mi; a Tesla model 3 is about 4mi/kWh so under $0.07/mi supercharger... most miles by far are from charging at home, at about 0.03/mi... people forget that you don’t need to supercharge unless on a trip...

[@caspear27]

3:32 - Buckeye radar sniffs out Indiana plates as well.

[@robarell3758]

Its not just the fear of the unfamiliar, it's also a matter of practicality and the visceral experience of having an internal combustion engine. Look at EV F-1. It's not doing so well. I don't want to go on a trip to Montana and stop every 250 miles and wait an hour for a full charge, not to mention the cost of maintenance. It's just not practical.

[@AnthonyTolhurst-dw1nc]

Cars are honestly like adult fun fair rides. And you cannot beat the roar, vibration and qualities of a decent bent eight. GO WITH GRUNT!

[@gabrielvargas6347]

if GM makes a Buick electric, that will sell, but that problem with Bold look like a 18,000 car with a price of 35,000

[@_PatrickO]

Not going to happen. The bolt is $37k and is sold for a loss. They canceled the volt because they don't want to lower the price as they lose the tax credit. Their EVs are going to be "premium" brands and have higher prices than teslas. Nothing will be lower than $40k, if not $50k. They are going to learn brand names do not make up for features or quality.

[@electrictroy2010]

The EV tax credit applies even if the car only cost $20,000. The credit is a percentage of the price tag .

[@tigerdust542]

Tesla IS already making the 35,000 model 3 fool

[@electrictroy2010]

no Tesla is making the Luxury version of the Model 3 which costs $40000. They have not started building the base model yet (those are still on a waiting list) .

[@Lovejazz01]

Quite frankly, I want my next car to be a full electric, and the only reason I don’t have one yet is that o can’t afford you have two car payments in my household so I have to wait another year to pay off my wife’s Acura. That may be a similar situation with a lot of would be electric vehicle buyers in America at least. I want to have at least one electric vehicle in the household so I can save money on gas and general maintenance on both cars in the long run. If you have one electric vehicle and one ICE(fossil) and you use the electric vehicle for most of your commuting and daily trips (around town, errands, etc) and only use your ICE vehicles for longer runs ,(fun, road trips, weekend outings, etc) , then you save money even on your ice vehicles on gas, oil, maintenance and general wear and tear . This is why people should consider the “option “ of having at least one electric vehicle in the garage.

[@AnthonyTolhurst-dw1nc]

Good thinking. Not many bother.

[@redxsage]

● Everything necessary to produce batteries is available in the U.S. and Canada. ● The only _'rare earth'_ elements purchased primarily from China are used in Electric Motors, not batteries.

[@AnthonyTolhurst-dw1nc]

People are afraid of each other. Subways at night? Some people have no choice.

[@robertpryor7225]

I think the date is wrong on this, sounds like it's from about 2013

[@robertpryor7225]

Hydrogen fuel-cell next level? No.

[@mbukukanyau]

Someone who is a professional still thinks Corollas last for ever? As a frustrated Corolla former owner who was into the coolaid, this is disturbing

[@WilliamPozo]

None of the big oems have any serious commitment to electrification (yet). The bolt had a terrible drag coefficient, a form factor that was designed not to appeal to the 40K car buyer... they are trying to sell a chevy sonic's to porsche buyers. Your team of speakers sound like GM/Ford/Chrysler dinosaurs. The resale values on tesla vehicles is quite high, not sure why this was omitted. Not sure why this is so slanted.

[@electrictroy2010]

I saw s used Model S for $25,000.... that’s a 70% drop from original cost. You call that holding it’s value???

[@earlpottinger671]

@@electrictroy2010 Link?

[@Lovejazz01]

John, again and again I ask, why is Tesla always singled out for showing new product as a” diversion” when the same major automakers you report on every day are masters at it, like VW for example. Look at the Diesel scandal they are paying billions for it yet for 5 years they have promised new EVs and have trotted our EV concepts every year yet the only VW EV still available in world is the E-Golf. (No the E-Tron and Taycan is still not available either) And as you said early in the show they are still promising. Can you at least give Tesla credit for having the best selling EV in the USA? Why criticize Tesla for showing a new product?

[@AnthonyTolhurst-dw1nc]

All the Big Boys are frightened of the speed of change in this revolutionary time of digital comms. Who isn’t? We are all stepping into the unknown, one step at a time, however, the steps appear shorter and hell, my feet are moving faster This total change to EVs is not a surety. The cars work, but right now, the roads don’t exist for them to realise their FULL potential. Retardistan’s transport infrastructure, is way beyond the design life, especially capacity. Tear it down and rebuild. You have no choice. Just have no idea where you will find the cash, unless you guys elect another Roosevelt. The rich may begin to pay up, but otherwise you’re emphatically and republicly fucked.

[@tigerdust542]

Used EVs are losing their value fast except for TESLA that has on of the highest resell value out there but you don't mention that ??? curious also the reison gas car companies can't make money on electric cars is they see it as just another engine swap that's fine if you wan't to lose about 7,000 dollars on every car ..... ( like the Chevy Bolt )

[@electrictroy2010]

I saw a used Tesla Model S for $25,000..... that’s a 70% drop from its original price tag. You call that holding value?!?!? .

[@DecepticonLeader]

@@electrictroy2010 25k? Production year? In what condition was it?

[@earlpottinger671]

@@DecepticonLeader Sounds like a car that has some accident damage. I have looked for used Teslas before the latest price reduction and rarely saw anything in the low 30Ks and never in the 20Ks.

[@DecepticonLeader]

@@earlpottinger671 Might have been someone desperate for money or something. Because that price tag would be a steal unless it was a wreck or in need of major repairs.

[@hostarepairman]

These fellows (No women are on the panel) are dancing around the FACT that TESLA is rapidly changing the only game they know, and they are too stunned and stubborn to honestly acknowledge that the pace of the sustainable electric power revolution is accelerating right out-of-sight of their ICE emission-fogged eyes. They make offhand comments about plug-in hybrids, etc. but don't really seem understand what ingredients make up a great EV - they probably don't know what a Gigafactory is for, and that TESLA is the only EV manufacturer that has a growing Supercharging network already extending all over the U.S.A. They have the banter of used car salesmen trying to impress each other by beginning a lofty discussion of the principles of SpaceX's orbital rocket construction. TESLA (an, ahem, AMERICAN company) is YEARS ahead in REAL WORLD IMPLEMENTATION of computers, software, electric motors and battery systems in EV's, and other potential EV manufacturers will have a very hard time emulating them any time soon. Elon Musk is simply a unique mix of brains, drive, honesty, and foresight (and, surprisingly, dry wit) not seen in an American business leader in decades, if ever. I hope TESLA continues to grow and develop astounding products that will help lead the world by example. I think it would be terrific to have problem-solver Musk as our President, but it will be hard for him to run if he is on (and President of) Mars. I have been a Republican voter of the fading balance the budget school who believes that, if not hobbled by the growing number of really strange representatives in Congress, American know-how, coupled with the time-tested profit motive, will solve the real and imagined problems before us. It is obvious to elderly me that Tom Swift is alive and hard at work in Freemont, California. So there.

[@H4N5O1O]

people need vehicles so make underpinnings the same across the board 'best design wins for every component' n style body inhouse

[@nigelweir3852]

You guys got poor info on pricing , batteries getting better , already taking off , if Tesla could make more they would sell more , GM don’t make their ev , South Korea makes most non Tesla ev , Renault and vw a year behind . Ford seriously risking the name on their lack of investment .

[@nigelweir3852]

OEM’s who don’t charge will die

[@stanspb763]

This session is like watching a group of clueless insiders refusing to believe their horse drawn carriages will be dominant for decades after the first gasoline powered vehicles were produced and making up nonsense justification why ICE is not be viable or in demand. They do not understand how disruptive technologies are adopted by consumers at rates that none of the industry insiders can imagine. All of these companies they are promoting will be out of business in 4-5 years.

[@AnthonyTolhurst-dw1nc]

Still building ladder framed trucks after 95 years minimum. They got something right. And what, still believe in the Jetsons do you?

[@SkyLinMegas]

41:00 this

[@gabrielvargas6347]

Cruze is hiring 1000 more engineering because that software is not ready, and they need a lot of people to make it happen. I think the first autonomous car will be around 2023 and the winner nobody knows who is going to be.

[@Northbaylandscaping]

I rented a Ford fusion hybrid and what a gutless piece of shit! why Ford builds that kinda crap I'll never know? I'm gonna put my Detroit hat on and say a few legacy automakers will fail in the next ten years unless the get bailed out again.

[@ronaldanderson9263]

Tesla should do a small truck. Not another Model whatever.

[@electrictroy2010]

the next Tesla IS a truck. Please try to keep up .

[@johnmqueripel2367]

Unfortunately there is some very uninformed comments regarding Tesla from the dinosaur hosts.

[@AnthonyTolhurst-dw1nc]

I wish they would spend the time trying to imagine and attempt making Tyranasaurus Rex noises instead. Such negative old farts. Sorry about the spelling of T Rex. Never good with Latin. Cheers

[@bill1260]

you gotta stop saying 'so'