Three Arguments in Favour of Scottish Independence - TLDR News

[@TLDRnews]

CORRECTION: At 2:06 the 2017 results should have been 35 instead of 54 - sorry for any confusion caused

[@Cowman9791]

That's fine, but it's not entirely inaccurate, as they did have 54 before the election in 2017

[@miloPRcohen]

No problem, but please make a video about cornish independence!

[@PatrickMapper]

Also the shortages on the shelves due to brexit have happened

[@julianshepherd2038]

Snp 1980s "to beat Labour we must become Labour Labour 1990s "to beat the Tories we must become the Tories Labour under Corbyn "we're Labour again" Scotland "fool me once..."

[@uberbellith4892]

Hey! I would like to know where you get the Scottisch independence graphs! Do you have any sources? I need it for my thesis haha

[@noamjen]

You left out the most important one - separate Eurovision entries

[@bruh5361]

This would give Scotland a chance of being on the winning side for once

[@miloPRcohen]

They'd stand more of a chance there if there HAD been Scoxit

[@squeaksquawk4255]

Juging by UK's recent entries, Scotland could probably beat UK every time!

[@miloPRcohen]

@@squeaksquawk4255 Maybe they'd just call the country England-and-Wales, yes they would beat them all the time!

[@DeeFourCee]

@@squeaksquawk4255 it’s not hard to beat 0 points :)

[@adamnestby7358]

Ah yes the Norwegian military’s strength is looming in the background of this entire debate. The vikings will return.

[@junkmail6206]

Scotland, the gates to valhalla...

[@sundhaug92]

I mean, here in Norway we have talked about how Scottish independence could bring back some historical ties, with some for example suggesting that one of our princes would be a good candidate for Scottish monarch

[@junkmail6206]

@@sundhaug92 Why not, England has Germans ruling the country.

[@bapo224]

@@sundhaug92 While I'm sure many Scots would like closer ties with Norway I don't think anyone wants a Norwegian monarch. Most likely they'd just go without monarchy, if they did want a monarchy they'd probably just keep the British monarchy (like Australia etc) or elect a noble from the Scottish peerage.

[@lukasosterloher9105]

@@bapo224 Maybe Franz von Wittelsbach, duke of Bavaria could become the Scottish monarch since he is the heir according to the Jacobite succession. (jk)

[@novemberbravo7769]

Never met a nationalist using the "How bad could it be arguement" more likely "look how bad it is"

[@klausbrinck2137]

Well, can´t blame them for that, after all, they function at the edge of intelligence, mostly at the false side of said edge.

[@novemberbravo7769]

@@klausbrinck2137 I think given the fact you assume all nationalists to be unintelligent really highlights the Unionist ethos. In that if they disagree with me they must be stupid, but hey that's ok. Remember you all voted for Brexit to "take back control" Can't blame nationalist for voting Yes to get control.

[@eoghan.5003]

@@klausbrinck2137 so your reaction to people living in hard conditions wanting to have more control over their government, and therefore their lives, is just "they're stupid" with no argument? That's exactly why independence is so likely.

[@klausbrinck2137]

@@novemberbravo7769 Just wanted to point out, that nationalists are stupid enough to not being able to anticiipate the consequences of actions. The scottisch nationalists are nationalists when it comes to their english overlords, so, they´re nationalists just by name, but they like other countries, like those in the EU. Brexiteers are the actuall and only nationalists in this diskussion. Nobody in the EU perceives the SNP as a nationalistic country (for Europeans, the Torys are a nationalistic party), so, stop joking.

[@that1niceguy246]

@@klausbrinck2137 You're right, noone can really (i mean 100% definitely) anticipate the consequences. But still there have been dozens of governments that more or less successfully freed themselves from Westminster in one way or another (with variing outcomes), Ireland would be the closest and it seems to be doing fine. And if the people want independence (preferable two thirds of them or more) then why stop them? It's a democracy after all, the whole point is that the people choose. And if they choose independence then so be it, mòran fortan, Alba.

[@InsaneFoxx]

I just love the idea of BoJo arguing that separating from a larger union will be a disaster

[@neolexiousneolexian6079]

🍿🍿🍿

[@gaz9434]

England and Scotland are much closer culturally and in terms of interest than the UK and continental Europe. I know what you mean but not quite the same thing. And he would politically have something to gain from Scotland leaving, Labour can say goodbye to winning an general election basically but he views the Union as more important than short term political gain which I think is admirable even if you don’t agree

[@davidsaunders1125]

@Vladimír Januška Total sense. Scotland has much greater freedom in our union than it would have under the eu. Look at Greece. We wouldnt do that to Scotland. Although they are quite capable of doing it to themselves, via the SNP !

[@feirmebeardonn4597]

Yep, might want to talk to the Irish.

[@ThePixel1983]

@@davidsaunders1125 Yeah, the freedom to be ruled by England, as mentioned in the video. (Violations)

[@magnuswinther9019]

I had to laugh out loud at the notion of Norway invading Scotland. It's likelier for England to try to anex Scotland, which would result in an international nightmare.

[@adamnestby7358]

Yeah I had to give a strong laugh on that one as well.

[@mclaconic7974]

Didn't work for the Romans or Anakin. Remember - we have the high ground!

[@MinecraftMasterNo1]

Let's just entertain your idea for a second. Who would help Scotland? Every nation with its own separatist movement will want no part of it, which leaves out more than half of Europe lol. And the US has been growing more disillusioned with holding up the military ceiling for the entire world. So honestly speaking, who do you think will help Scotland?

[@MagicBrianTricks]

@TheFastAndThe Dead Who's consent?

[@GeorgeThoughts]

@@MinecraftMasterNo1 It's a fascinating thought and in all likelihood no-one would help militarily due to not wanting to literally go to war with England which would fracture the West's long standing alliances. However, the Nordic countries would have an interest in developing closer ties with Scotland as it's definitely closer to them culturally than England. And let's be fair, the USA as a "pro-freedom anti-empires" believer loves to hold the high ground against annexations and especially given their history probably would react negatively to yet another invasion of a "free democratic country" by the English haha. But yeah I think reactions would be economic in nature, not military but who knows!

[@Kevc00]

On the subject of an independent Scotland having no military, most likely it would work similarly to the Irish army. After Ireland became independent in 1922, as part of the treaty with the UK, most of the Irish units in the british army that were stationed on the island became part of the new Irish army. A couple remained in the British army and Irish citizens were afforded the right to continue joining the British army if they choose. I could see a new Scottish army going the same way, with the majority of Scottish regiments based in Scotland joining the Scottish army, but some regiments such as the Scots guard remaining in the British army.

[@simonabunker]

what would happen with the nuclear submarines?

[@Kevc00]

@@simonabunker nuclear weapons complicate it but the SNP has expressed it's opposition to nuclear weapons so most likely these would be kept by the UK.

[@CJ-ow7sr]

No British army units became part of the Irish Free State Army upon Ireland achieving independence. A number of Irish regiments remained in the British Army, and a number of them completely disbanded. Quite a few ex-British army soldiers who had served in these regiments joined the Irish army upon disbanding, but that was on an individual basis, not a transfer of units.

[@Kevc00]

@@CJ-ow7sr I mean that the units were disbanded and their troops were transferred to the Irish army. They were given a choice but it wasnt just a few officers, most of the civil war national army was made up of former British soldiers, over 20,000 British soldiers joined the new Irish army. Many Irish army units claim direct lineage to British army units, such as the 1st infantry battalion which is directly descended from the Connaught Rangers.

[@myonline1985]

@@simonabunker Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). Basically the weapons belong to the UK so if Scotland leaves they have to hand them over and the UK having signed the NPT is not allowed to give a few token ones to Scotland.

[@headache42]

I'd throw Betrayal in as a Reason. In the Last Scottish Referendum, the fear that staying in the UK was the only way to remain in the EU was a big threat levied against pro-independence voters. Then a couple years later it's shown to be for naught.

[@SeanGHOB]

Agreed.

[@arianbyw3819]

Yup, the English government lied as per usual.

[@mclaconic7974]

Yup

[@Megalomaniakaal]

The referendums happened in the wrong order. But then that is exactly what Cameron intended...

[@MagicBrianTricks]

@@Megalomaniakaal Cameron did not intend on leaving the EU

[@GaryWalshDublin]

I dont understand why anyone says Scottish independence is a bad concept. I live in the Republic of Ireland and we left the UK just over 100 years ago. We have a similar population to Scotland and we are thriving. Our economy is stronger than Scotlands and we are full members of the single market. The fact that Scotland have been pulled out of the EU because the English wanted to leave cannot be overlooked. I think once the UK economy starts doing badly- this will certainly happen in the short term- I believe the Scots will have every reason to become independent with an eye on rejoining the EU.

[@paulmcmahon864]

Excellent comments Gary, thank you.

[@elliewuzzup7689]

Exactly. Their MPs have very little voice in parliament unfortunately, and have suffered as a result of Brexit despite wanting to stay. I think it's not cut and dry, and there would need to be quite a bit of diplomatic discussion and compromise but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Like Ireland, Scotland has been historically oppressed by the British and faced persecution for simply living, speaking their own language etc. Its hard to believe even after all this time England has Scotland's best interests at heart! And seeing MPs not get understood "because of their accents" makes my blood boil!

[@LivegoodWilliam]

the Uks economy is not beginning to fall apart it has fallen apart.. no one here can afford to live...

[@Droidman1231]

When they are selling pins for Scottish independence and for UK Unity "I’m playing both sides so I always come out on top"

[@zerto111]

Well that's one of TLDR main selling points. They try their best to be impartial.

[@felixfrings4743]

@@zerto111 well, one the one hand it’s impartial, on the other it’s making money from operating on both sides. As long as two idiots buy I’m sure they’re happy

[@TheJeremyHolloway]

Do they have an Anglosphere button?

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

That might qualify as a conflict of interest for the TLDR News staff if they had some sort of policy-making role, I suppose. As it is, they are just selling merchandise that sometimes can be interpreted as support for certain causes that do not always align with each other. Hardly a worry.

[@ince55ant]

picturing Mac wearing both pins at the same time side by side

[@ImmuneGEORGE]

Can TLDR please make a video on why the UK wants Scotland to stay? What does the UK gain from Scotland?

[@joshuacarre06]

Well its more England that benefits since they extort resources from Scotland and also Wales just to mention

[@rossswann3346]

Can I recommend a book I read, Tim Marshall, the power of geography. It has a chapter which really sets out the UK's position on Scottish independence.

[@ImmuneGEORGE]

@@rossswann3346 Looks very interesting, might take a look soon, thanks!

[@maxdavis7722]

@@joshuacarre06 what do you mean?

[@ImmuneGEORGE]

@@joshuacarre06 I wouldn’t think it was due to economics, as far as I’m aware the UK government gives Scotland a lot more than they recoup in tax. The Scottish deficit was nearly £2000 per person per year pre-Covid (9% of GDP). I’d imagine it’s more to do with territory and power as the other guy commented.

[@dieucondorimperial2509]

I’m French, and I want to inform all the Scottish people that we are more than willing to revive the Auld Alliance.

[@grace2312]

cheers

[@sajeucettefoistunevaspasme]

Germany

[@jr5389]

👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿😎

[@crustyoldfart]

Scotland and France allied against England. A common scenario in history. The pragmatic amongst will ask, " and when did the Auld Alliance ever bring any good to Scotland, except the satisfaction in knowing that it annoyed a lot of English people ?

[@jasonkingshott2971]

So it can fail again?

[@solidus784]

Leaving the UK okay, but leaving Britain that's a bit extreme.

[@snowcold5932]

Hadrian's wall more like Hadrian's sea

[@eris9062]

I think the Atlantic needs more islands

[@ronanmas3581]

LOL

[@berserkirclaws107]

"United" Kingdom has nothing united about it , is more Britain and his Subjects. So yes the video title does make sense even more when you watch the video.

[@titallium3244]

@@berserkirclaws107 you missed the joke

[@jacobarcher1097]

I don't want Scotland to leave but I can definitely sympathies with them as like Westminster is pretty fucking out of touch with my needs and I'm just in Yorkshire

[@allisonshaw9341]

Maybe Yorkshire could join Scotland for a better present and future.

[@billjane5522]

The Shetland islands etc say the same thing about the NSP devolved Parliament.

[@English_Dawn]

Maybe one of Yorkshire's problems is that some of your money is being spent on Scotland to keep the nationalists happy.

[@MoireFly]

At the end of the day, it might be healthier for all parts of the union to disassociate; it's just not healthy to have the kind of political monoculture the UK's system creates, and I feel that as separate parts, you'd be more likely to see actual (political) competition everywhere, the kind that hopefully keeps the politicians a little more honest.

[@jono_cc2258]

@@English_Dawn next joke please haha

[@saddoncarrs6963]

Well. of course, the most important missing argument would be Scotland's ability to apply for EU membership. Surprised you didn't include it.

[@Paul-zk2tn]

Well, now that we arent in the EU does it matter how long it would take? Still faster than staying in Little Britain

[@jamesberry5578]

Application and getting are two entirely different things, maestro.

[@jamesberry5578]

@@Paul-zk2tn You are one confused puppy, chico.

[@Paul-zk2tn]

@@jamesberry5578 What did I say that was wrong exactly?

[@guptaamey]

@@Paul-zk2tn Thing is, Spain will almost certainly block Scotland's introduction into the EU. They have their own problems with separatism (catalonia) and they don't want to set off MORE protests.

[@turkialhusaini277]

All I’m going to say is that I cannot wait to see a Scottish passport and customs along the border with England. “I like my neighbours, but I don’t want them running my house.”

[@orianhutton8711]

I see it as one house in which one family lives: not my house or your house. Half Scottish and half English, I like being part of the wider family.

[@flitsertheo]

@@orianhutton8711 Problem in that house today is that the Scottish are only allowed to live in the attic, the Northern Irish in the basement and the Welsh in the cupboard under the stairs while the rest of the house is occupied by the English and off limits for the other ones.

[@orianhutton8711]

@@flitsertheo Never felt the rest of the house was off limits myself. Same problem with the EU: majority voting with even less control. Why on earth anyone would see that as a better option is beyond me. I hope CANZUK happens with free trade and movement between Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK. Do Scots want to lose out on that one?

[@orianhutton8711]

@Teutonic Knight Like London carries more weight and influence in England.

[@sarahjames2452]

So you'd rather have some guy from Brussels running your house,ok have fun.

[@taipizzalord4463]

I've always said Boris Johnson is a one nation Conservative..., but its just that nation is England.

[@thomasbootham2707]

No boris is a no nation conservative what has boris ever done for England apart from cause more hardships he only serves himself

[@sambra1979]

I cant think of anyone who could work with sturgeon. She makes it impossible.

[@jamesberry5578]

England is a country, the United Kingdom is s nation. Please tell me you're not British.

[@jamesberry5578]

@@sambra1979 Imagine Sturgeon and Mutti going head to head?🤣

[@johncullen9373]

Possible United Ireland, Scotland independents, crashing the English economy and its reputation around the world. God Boris would have make a great IRA oppreative.

[@jesper4293]

Love the «Norway might attack» We give Scotland a Christmas Tree every year as a Thank You for the help in the 2. WW

[@stephenmurphy2212]

Lol. An independent Scotland would obviously create its own defence forces. Something every country does when it gets its independence. 🤪

[@jono_cc2258]

Yeah I think we'd get on just fine with all our Nordic neighbors. A Scottish Defence Force could be simple as well, focus on maritime patrol operations using aircraft and Frigates, have Marines without an Army etc. Without expensive aircraft carriers, heavy armour and nuclear deterrent a modest budget would go a long way as seen by Finland or New Zealand.

[@petrsixta7683]

@@stephenmurphy2212 well EU tend to defend its bordes. :) we will find ways to monetary help our new friends dont you be worried about that

[@dennis12dec]

@@jono_cc2258 Scotland should build up its own defence forces just like us here in Singapore after our break up with Malaysia in 1965 and we're completely on our own, in the building up of our Armed Forces we were declined help by larger nations even the UK as they gradually pulled out during that time but one came to help us that was Israel a small country surrounded by larger enemies yet its military has a formidable and fearsome reputation and 56 years later look where we are now today, don't hesitate to seek advice from them and an independent Scottish Defence Forces will grow, stop relying on Westminster.

[@casperwallace9685]

Some of these people just believe newspaper nonsense. I have sung around that tree on many a year too

[@Alastair_]

As a Scotsman I do love reading the comments on videos about this.

[@lebl992]

If I may ask. What ist your opinion on this topic?

[@rogz]

@@lebl992 mad gammons are funny is the only opinion.

[@garymaxwell3086]

I definitely agree the comments are always entertaining. As a fellow scot I do find it interesting as to the fact there are very few videos on how us leaving would affect the rest of the UK outside of the separatist argument of the of NI and W.

[@lebl992]

@@garymaxwell3086 from an economic point probably not much except energy maybe. But as a society it would be the last nail in the coffin of the one Great empire of Great Britain

[@thunderb00m]

Have you considered the risk of a Norwegian invasion ?

[@user-xu2pi6vx7o]

On the subject of Scotland not having an army to defend itself with, I have to ask. Defend itself from whom? England? Because it is otherwise surrounded on all sides by the EU or EU allies and a gigantic ocean. Who's going to attack, Aquaman?

[@Thats_Mr_Random_Person_to_you]

But its also a matter of jobs... where do many thousands of people who were in the British army (and non military support roles) go for work when the British army is moved out of Scotland? Now a lot might choose to stay in the British army and move across the border but there is a lot of non-military people who would either be out of a job overnight or have their local economy decimated.... Are there enough other jobs avaliable for them to re-hire into? It seems the safest bet to the Scottish economy is to rehire people into a Scottish military.... local economies are supported by bases still having people in them, lots of people would move from the disbanded British regiments to a new Scottish army etc... the downside is the Scottish taxpayer now has to wholly fund something they've only 'partially' funded before.... It makes sense (just from a jobs perspective) to retain some form of military...

[@urielantoniobarcelosavenda780]

Those slicky vikings would

[@cacamilis8477]

@@Thats_Mr_Random_Person_to_you It's still possible to maintain a UK military presence in Scotland through leasing bases, or a joint defence treaty, akin to Irish independence in 1922 when the Royal Navy used 3 Irish ports until the 1930s.

[@dennis12dec]

Scotland should build up its own defence forces from scratch not to be dependent at Westminster just like Singapore did after being expelled from the Malaysian Federation in 1965 and they got help from Israel a small country surrounded by larger enemies but its military has a fearsome reputation, don't be hesitant to seek advice from them and Scottish military will grow.

[@user-xu2pi6vx7o]

@@dennis12decAnd again, defend itself from whom or what? Scotland is surrounded on most parts by the biggest project for peace, in European history.

[@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc]

I'd say the potential of being in the EU should be a factor specifically mentioned. Emphasis on the potential part of that answer.

[@sambra1979]

Yes, an arguement to not be independent. But seeing as the eu have made it clear Scotland won't be joining how is it even an arguement.

[@finlayblair9751]

@@sambra1979 they haven't made that clear

[@ImmuneGEORGE]

Scotland wouldn’t be able to join the EU due to their enormous deficit. It would take many, many years of austerity and tax rises to try and balance the books so that they’re eligible for EU entry.

[@neodym5809]

@@ImmuneGEORGE As Scotland is not even allowed to run a deficit and take on debt, I do not see that as a problem.

[@MinecraftMasterNo1]

@@neodym5809 Do you know how many separatist movements there are in Europe lol? They will NEVER have an unanimous vote needed to join the EU. It's ok to be optimistic, not delusional.

[@endlesssabbatical9612]

Fundamentally the question is one of self determination. If Scotland is never governed by people who espouse the policies that Scottish people vote for then a change is needed. Brexit is the prime example,, Scottish people don’t want Brexit, they want alignment with our most important partners. If rejoining the EU requires independence then sign me up and get the border posts ready at Berwick. We could also ask JRM for one of those technical solutions to borders that he said were super easy

[@TheJeremyHolloway]

Your "most important partners" completely failed when it came to COVID.

[@endlesssabbatical9612]

@@TheJeremyHolloway this is weak and getting weaker by the day as EU countries surpass UK vaccination rates as we type. They have also managed to have lower levels of death and less impact in their economy. I’ll take those partners any day of the week

[@BillySugger1965]

@@TheJeremyHolloway Which “most important partners” are you referring to?

[@Ronnet]

@@TheJeremyHolloway Actually, when it came to the part that could be fully controled (i.e. regulating covid pre-vaccine), the UK government failed. A larger percentage of people died because of that failure. The UK simply picked the right horse in the vaccine race and thus got more vaccines early on. Which gave them a better start but that was more down to luck. Which is now being proven because the EU is easily overtaking the UK as we speak.

[@BillySugger1965]

@@TheJeremyHolloway Ah I see. Well even Portugal has a higher per-capita vaccination rate than the UK.

[@maxhodgson14]

Honestly, we'd be fine if Norway invaded us, we love all our Nordic neighbours and would probably welcome them with open arms as family more than friends!

[@English_Dawn]

But would be prepared to pay Nordic level of taxation?

[@saddoncarrs6963]

@@English_Dawn Without question - if it meant a similar quality of life. Paying taxes is not necessarily a bad thing.

[@maxhodgson14]

@@English_Dawn difference between welcoming friends and mimicking their entire model. Besides, their income tax rate is 22% for those on roughly £14k-25k a year, ours is 20% for the same income range, not the 70% that people think...because ya know the average person doesn't earn enough to receive that tax rate. Not to mention it's worth the trade off for better public services!

[@HamishDuh2nd]

Take it from Canada, Scots. Nobody is going to invade you. Canada has been threatened with that hypothetical idea, throughout its entire existence, but we are still standing. Both our countries have too many friends.

[@JG-my9mj]

Spoke on like a true Nordic

[@ari54x]

To be fair to Boris Johnson, he IS an expert on inevitable disasters.

[@richardcrompton9067]

but far from an expert at avoiding them...

[@ari54x]

@@richardcrompton9067 yes that was the deliberate implication 🙃

[@summerbrightbright4602]

Boris and Brexit are A disaster already food shortages showing that Brexit really is disaster nothing positive signs.. Are that one day Scotland will be free one day

[@dm121984]

@@richardcrompton9067 Oh, we meant in making inevitable disasters.

[@joshkaran]

Funny how sovereignty was so central to Brexit, yet those same people don’t like devolution or want to allow an independence vote. Where is the Scottish sovereignty in all this?

[@arvedui89]

Because it was all about English sovereignty 😉

[@ReddoFreddo]

Because people's worldviews are full of contradictions

[@justonecornetto80]

Scotland doesn't have sovereignty, the UK does. The Act of Union dissolved the Kingdoms of Scotland and England in perpetuity.

[@ScotisticDad]

There was a vote in 2014. Scotland voted to stay.

[@indogoUI]

@@ScotisticDad there was one in 2016 too and they voted to stay in the EU. Now all that's changed so it's time for another vote based on today's circumstances.

[@aftokratory]

I'm not Scottish, but I don't think it matters whether Scotland will be wildly economically successful by itself or not. If they want independence, they should have it. If countries only existed where it is economically more advantageous, then the whole world would be one big country.

[@mcr2356]

But wanting independence will depend in part on the economic factors which are likely to be negative. Can't really say it dosn't matter.

[@joshuaparrott2458]

Fair enough, brexit happened because we voted for it, why not this.

[@mcr2356]

@@joshuaparrott2458 Does it mean brexit was the right decision though ? And does it mean independence is the right decision.

[@scott.ebusiness]

The issue is more how many years should you have between referendums? Most British people (English, welsh and Irish) don't have an issue with Scotland having another vote but's more when.... should it be once in a generation... once in every 10 years, after every UK election or every year.. then how much should the independence have to win by? People still argue today the Brexit vote wasn't a big enough majority for us to leave so should Scotland have to get 60% to leave. In theory the bigger the margins you need the more regular you can have referendums as its a clear mandate but leaving by 1 vote say? this is huge and holds HUGE risks that could divide Scotland as some regions will clearly want to stay soooo this is the question, how often should the votes be and how much should independence have to win by? Should the final agreement be put to referendum is another question you could ask

[@that1niceguy246]

@@scott.ebusiness i think a 60% or two thirds majority would be fitting and the referendums after every national election because it feels like the right thing to do

[@AaronMcHale]

I'm not sure if Scotland is running a fiscal deficit, to be honest in the current setup it's rather unclear. The only things we can say for certain is that: a) the Scottish Government's spending falls within its budget; b) It spends money based on taxes it rasies directly (through Revenue Scotland) and based on the block grant (which is made up of taxes raised in Scotland but collected by HRMC, and uses a complex formula to figure this out, apportioning them between the UK Gov and Scot Gov); c) And that the Scottish Government is forced to spend within its budget because it does not have borrowing powers (unlike the UK Government); So, based on those you could argue that the Scottish Government runs a very fiscally sound budget, spending within its means. An example of this complexity problem is Corporation Tax raised from companies in Scotland is just lumped in with Corporation Tax raised in the rest of the UK. VAT was like that but I believe there is now work on going to make it clearer how much VAT is raised from Scotland and report on that by HMRC. The other big thing to consider is the UK Government spends a lot of money on things that an Independent Scotland might not spend money on, or an independent Scotland might prioritise differently. An example of this is the nuclear detterent, which the current Scottish Government has indicated they would not have, and that could potentially save a lot of money. So, bottom line is, I don't think it's as simple as saying "Scotland runs a deficit, therefor an independent Scotland would also run a defifict", because that's simply too much of a oversimplification.

[@theMoporter]

Thank you!

[@funsizedlawd]

An argument I oftentimes have with unionists goes: Unionists: Scotland runs at a deficit! We cant afford to divorce from the UK Me: Well Scotland has no borrowing powers and is legally required to present a balanced budget, so it literally cannot run a deficit. So how can we "not afford it" if we've been affording it this whole time? Unionists: ummmmm well you lost get over it

[@nitishlamba8451]

Can Spain veto scoland's application to join EU?

[@soakedmovie9231]

@@nitishlamba8451 they can any country in eu can I believe, but Spain said they would only do that if the referendum was illegal.

[@DannyDom3]

@@nitishlamba8451 they can say no, but this is probably less like than you think, if they said no they would upset bigger nations like France and Germany and they might not be willing to take that gamble

[@Its-Just-Gizmo]

A country being in charge of itself, rather than asking another country if they can change a law... Yes. Too much to ask. That's such a ridiculous idea.

[@موسى_7]

To be honest, where do we draw the line? Cities don't agree with each other. London disagrees with the rest of England.

[@Its-Just-Gizmo]

@@موسى_7 the line is one is a country, the other is a city.

[@hurensohn7605]

not forgetting that the other country decided to leave a bigger union because of that reason.

[@Its-Just-Gizmo]

@@hurensohn7605 two "unions" are not the same. And let's not tug each others pee pee's.. brexit was never about that.

[@davidsaunders1125]

@@hurensohn7605 Are you daft ? Scotland asked for a indiref. We gave them an indiref. Scotland voted to STAY in the Union ! Out of the 23 polls in Scotland in the last year, Scotland voted to Stay in the Union. The 3 saying they wanted to leave had a majority of around 1% ! What more could you ask ,? Scotland does not want to leave the Union !!!!

[@JRattheranch]

The tiny Baltic States have done really well from a very poor start, much worse than Scotland would have as a base!

[@Silveirias]

Exactly! Especially Estonia is doing amazing! Also, Finland as well started as a poor country that heavily relied on agriculture after centuries of being ruled and fought over by Russia and Sweden. It went through a bloody civil war, fought off the Soviet invasion, lost a significant chunk of its territory, and had to resettle 12% of its population, pay massive war reparations, and despite not being invaded was heavily under Soviet influence until its fall. Today Finland is among the top on pretty much every positive ranking of nations. Scotland has a far better starting point! Scotland will do fine on its own.

[@neodym5809]

Ireland, too.

[@PadHicks]

Latvia's population declined by around a million since succession from the USSR, and continues to age and decline. Doesn't bode well for the next generation

[@JRattheranch]

@@PadHicks It's surprising how many that left, have gained expertise and are returning home! Riga feels to me, more prosperous than many towns in England!

[@tnickknight]

@@PadHicks Only in the beginning, and every European country has a problem with an ageing demographic

[@kieranrobson3794]

As a Scotsman, I want my vote to matter, the population of London is bigger than the population of Scotland. If we vote in a major election, we may as well not vote at all unless you vote for the majority. Our vote means literally nothing.

[@DonFlufflesPrime]

Not a scotsman myself but from an outsiders perspective I absolutely agree, I think the severity of this was shown in the Brexit vote, where the majority of Scotland voted to remain but was made to leave the EU anyway. (For the record this isn't an argument for or against Brexit as I know that's a dicey topic, just an example of the type of situation Scotland is dealing with in regards to representation.)

[@BoldOne8760]

Scotland and Wales is turning increasingly left wing as England turns increasingly right wing, if you stay in the Union you will have a government that serves your interests less and less with every election. Sincerely, an Irishman.

[@kieranrobson3794]

@@DonFlufflesPrime Exactly, and we have voted against the Tories for the entirety of my lifetime. I want to be able to decide about the political parties affecting the country I actually live in, rather than a completely different country voting for the complete opposite side of the political spectrum

[@DonFlufflesPrime]

@@kieranrobson3794 I'd say that's an argument everyone can understand, even if they don't agree fully with Scottish independence, but then again I am biased.

[@kieranrobson3794]

@@BoldOne8760 Precisely, we may as well not be offered a vote in the first place, seen as it makes literally no difference whatsoever, what the entire country actually votes when England can just over rule it with simple numbers

[@TheTrackRecord]

As an English person I would be very sad to see Scotland leave. However if I was a Scot I would be desperate to leave. I don’t think it would be particularly good for them economically but I would want to leave because of the quality of democracy in the UK. We currently have an unelected HoL, a partially democratic FPTP electoral system and a minority rule Tory party attacking the democratic process. If Scotland were to leave then they could become a modern 21st century democracy.

[@toffeesky6227]

They'll enjoy all that democracy when they run out of money and find out Germany isn't interested in subsidising another Greece as a part of the EU

[@gregoryfenn1462]

Agreed. Also I hope that they would be a better example to us and maybe encourage us to improve too

[@bentaylor102]

leave the uk and join an even more undemocratic eu?

[@Bolt451]

@@toffeesky6227 dude Scotland has an economy that can hold its own

[@toffeesky6227]

@@WW-to5rc ah the 'dude trust me' argument

[@shellminator]

Would welcome Scotland back to EU

[@wile123456]

Conservatives dominating England wouldnt be as big a deal if the UK was an actual democracy and didn't use the broken first past the post system. Vote percentages don't matter, only who can edge out the biggest percentage in each county. Honestly disgusting to see a system like this still in place in 2021

[@Cal_lum]

It’s the best system

[@Pyriold]

@@Cal_lum A system where politicians simply don't need to care about all the counties that are either firmly voting for them or against them is broken. Politicians who want to get elected will only care for swing counties, making promises and campaign hard there. Every vote needs to count equally, it should not matter if you are in a swing county or not. The british system has its strengths as well, but it needs at least a new component. For comparison you could for example look at the german system which combines majority votes with county representation.

[@wile123456]

@@Cal_lum it litterally isn't. Tons of other western countries have much better systems that represent the people and percentage vote better

[@Wozza365]

FPTP gives SNP a massive advantage though, they get almost all the Scottish MPs despite usually getting about half the vote

[@neodym5809]

@@Cal_lum The best system for a minority to rule over a majority, the best system to keep a corrupt government in power, the best system for a time limited party dictatorship. It delivers worse living conditions, worse welfare, worse economy, worse local representation than federal systems like Germany or con-federal systems like Switzerland.

[@andrew4363]

I’m pro-independence, and actually excited to see the unionist video. Nobody who’s big in politics makes a solid case for the Union much, they lie about us being too small, attack Nicola sturgeon and shout about Peter Murrel.

[@myonline1985]

"being too small" is not an argument... Luxembourg is a fully independent nation, as is Lichtenstein, Andorra, San Marino and Monaco. Those 5 nations put together have less population and land mass than Scotland and thats not even counting the water rights.

[@fburton8]

@@myonline1985 Comparisons have made between Scotland and Denmark, which seems to be doing okay.

[@myonline1985]

@@fburton8 yeah, scotland has a million less pop and denmark has about half the land area and while Scotland has been a partner of England for the past 300 years (since act of union in 1707) Denmark has been an independent nation for 1200 years (bar a few nilly willy Swedish and German occupations). So again, the "too small" argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[@B1_66ER]

Independence would restrict opportunities for Scottish people who personally interact with the rest of the UK substantially - those who trade across the border, seek jobs across it, visit family ect. Even if ind. Scot. and the rest of the UK were both in the EU, they would BE barriers regarding certain public job opportunities and the hassle of dealing in two currencies. In foreign policy terms the UK is a country that can extract concessions, corral allies, ect with its (albeit very limited) brute political power. Scotland would lose that instantly. Scotland's foreign policy would have to operate within the consensus of foreign countries it was dealing with and would have to conform more readily to external foreign policy concerns. Even if ind. Scot. was a part of the EU their foreign policy stances would be less important then more powerful countries like The Netherlands. How would Scotland balance outrage of unpopular practises in countries that it has relations with? Scotland benefits from the business and financial environment of the UK. The rest of UK is Scotland's biggest trading partner which Scottish independence would harm. An independent Scotland would have to erect and enforce a border with the rest of the UK which would be costly to plan and build, costly to maintain and with a continuous costly depressant to trade with what would its biggest trading partner. Scotland enjoys a far higher public spending to tax intake ratio due to the Barnett formula, the end of which would force Scotland to raise taxes to maintain spending and/or cutting spending. Also independent Scotland would have to lower its deficit spending quite a bit to 3% (at least 19% according to the IFS) if it wanted to join the EU, which again would make Scotland less rich than it is in the UK. Scotland benefits from the business and financial environment of the UK. The rest of UK is Scotland's biggest trading partner which Scottish independence would harm.

[@myonline1985]

@@B1_66ER Interesting points. I have some questions though. 1) Your point on barriers. Yes there would be barriers that would come into place unless Scotland remains outside the single market. They would be in a good position to continue as always though given the right agreements which without EU bureaucracy are quite doable, even the currency could be the same and regulated out of London as it is entirely up to the Scots. If Scotland were to join the single market then they would be subject to the same rules and regulations regarding trading with the UK as the rest of the EU however in turn they would have access to all trading partners of the EU once more, and free access to the jobs market if need be (and vice versa). 2) You mention foreign policy but you say Scotland would have only little say in foreign affairs, which is more than they have now, while also pre-empting the EU into the mix and how they would be "subservient" to the larger entities in the EU, much like they are right now. So what is your argument exactly? A little better alone, or subservient to a far larger entity than now on foreign policy and somehow it is an argument against which I don't understand so please enlighten me. 3)As for taxes, that really is up to the Scots to find out. Having high taxes isn't a net negative nor is having low taxes a net positive. It all depends on what you get for your money and as long as the money stays in Scotland I don't see how it would make Scotland poorer.

[@gokulbalagopal1680]

I think Scotland can survive independently especially if they join the EU, but England Scotland border will be a mess

[@jazzx251]

Yes. But Scotland would have an ally in The Whole of the Rest of Europe! (including Ireland) Noises from the EU are almost goading Scotland to become independent right now. Just to stick it to the treacherous English. Open arms await an independent Scotland in the EU.

[@Clone683]

Scotland could join the common travel area?

[@taipizzalord4463]

Nope there will be a common travel area like Ireland.

[@mcr2356]

@TheFastAndThe Dead And how would goods get to Scotland from the eu? Either going through England (border checks) or spending more money on longer new shipping routes. Nearly 70 % of Scottish trade stays within the eu. It would be a mess.

[@petermillar24]

Nothing like as much of a mess as the border within Ulster. The border with England is old, well established, and far more logical - about a quarter of the length and using natural features. Just look at a map.

[@cageybee7221]

basically every country in the world runs their public services under a deficit, so this complaint is really odd.

[@robbiegordon2117]

exactly what i thought as soon as it was mentioned

[@benjaminmeusburger4254]

Absolutely. Furthermore, if the income changes, then the expenditures could simply be adjusted. A bunch of options will be availalbe. No waste on military expanditures, legalization on soft drugs (to get sales taxes out of it and reduce cots for courts, prisons and police) etc.

[@cageybee7221]

@@benjaminmeusburger4254 also, being able to borrow and/or print money to fill in deficit gaps would allow scotland to make larger economic investments into their country, potentially giving them a strong enough tax base to fund the services, and even if they can't neither can most of the world.

[@vitas75]

Best of all, nobody would waste their money on dumb projects/purchases.

[@jimpickins7900]

@@watfordgap6737 depends how far left you go

[@thefebruaryman]

Im english and fully respect the desire to get away from tory rule. I wish the South west could go independent

[@d283jdsk2]

Eh? We vote Tory down here. I bet you're a Bristol/City lefty or someone who moved. Labour etc don't understand what life is like outside of the city/urban areas. We don't want them in.

[@thefebruaryman]

@@d283jdsk2 nah. Not from Bristol and defo not a lefty. Totally believe in capitalism and a free market just can't stand all the corruption and low morals of our politics

[@thefebruaryman]

@James Mertins most of the import laws and funding in Scotland is under direct control of the uk government, which at present is the tory party. So you are wrong. Just because you dont like someone or a peoples doesn't mean you are right, ad hominem is not an argument. If there are injunctions for the press please provide evidence else your argument is moot

[@xyxxxy3845]

Without an English devolved parliament English matters have no choice but to interfere with the over nations

[@mattf9156]

Exactly why does it have to be in or out, if all countires had fully devolved powers and still shared open boarders and trade policies we would be better off

[@The_Phoenix_Saga]

@@mattf9156 open borders are among the reasons why we're stuck in the first place.

[@neodym5809]

@@The_Phoenix_Saga When were there ever open borders in the UK? Never joined Schengen.

[@jh5401]

@@neodym5809 They're talking about the borders between the UK constituent countries, not EU member states, I think.

[@k4four615]

@@The_Phoenix_Saga, the UK never joined Schengen, you statement is in fact false.

[@kiezorfc8559]

The thing that annoys me the most is England and Westminster hate us yet won’t let us leave and the reason is they are afraid that we will be become powerful and richer than them

[@lucastaylor2321]

I don’t hate Scotland.. my dads Scottish. But I feel and it’s clear you hate us. Go if you want to go... I personally would be all for a second vote if it ends this constant arguing... it’s getting boring.

[@New-ye2fl]

Sooner the better 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@igorscot4971]

You forgot about taking back control of our Scottish borders, arranging our own Scottish trade deals, and what about Scottish sovereignty? More importantly, what is the use of a Scottish government, if the Queen can stop any Scottish bill?

[@michaelel650]

I am right there with you, Scotland needs independence.

[@giantWario]

None of those are arguments, they're just the results. What you're really saying right now is: ''you forgot about having independent borders, arranging our trade independently and what about independence? More importantly what's the use of having Scottish politicians if we're not independent?'' Like I get that this might be the main appeal for a lot of people but those still aren't actually arguments. The reason why they spent that much time discussing the third point is that the main argument both for and against independence is whether or not you call pull it off.

[@oduffy1939]

Dump the Queen! Scotland should have its own Àrd Rìgh / Àrd Bhanrigh - High King/Queen, meaning a president like France and some other European countries have. You could limit the term to a single seven-year term, but then call the office: "Office of the High King/Queen of Scotland", just to piss off the English!

[@emmalottie3346]

Um James Stuart the first of england and 6th of scotland. The king of scotland became king of england. Shes the queen of scotland too. She has veto rights on all law too cause we live in a monarchy, its not like she ever uses it.

[@TheJeremyHolloway]

The Queen would still be the Queen. And if you joined the EU as an extremely small nation, you wouldn't have any real sovereignty anyway when it came to trade deals, the border, and just about any other important thing. It's not like Scotland is Germany, or France. Every other EU "member state" is an also-ran compared to that terrific/terrible twosome.

[@magnuspeacock5857]

For me, the main reason for Independence is that I am terrified of Boris Johnston and his politics. England's lurch toward right-wing populism, and BoJo's hatred and contempt of Scotland is antithetical to everything I stand for. And right now I can't see the Tories ever losing power.

[@MrCornelius93]

I'm also terrified of Bojo and his cronies and while I don't agree with Nicola and her vision for Scotland she is a much better politician than Bojo (what ever that means lol!). However, leaders change like the winds neither Boris nor Nicola are forever and on a decision that will affect generations to come I think a personal like or dislike of a leader isn't the best reasoning when we next get a vote. You may have other reasons for wanting an independent which is fair enough! Personally I would rather see Scotland's politicians engage more with the running of the UK at Westminster (and for that part for them to be listened too!)

[@rodvr_ptEng]

Scotland must be independent soon! The UK only exists because of the Monarchy's role of uniting the countries... Brexit just caused this independence situation to get worse and worse to control.

[@copyer9088]

You had a referendum on the matter not even 10 years and it went thought as NO respect the result and accept that Scotland won’t be going anywhere anytime soon.

[@rodvr_ptEng]

@@copyer9088 That's rubbish! The UK is crumbling... It is just the consequence of the horrible and xenophobic BREXIT! Scotland deserves to be free! Northern Ireland will join the Republic of Ireland really soon! The UK will be disbanned before 2030! Good riddance! It is time to wake up!

[@copyer9088]

@@rodvr_ptEng While a agree that Brexit has pushed the support independence closer in Scotland. You can’t deny the fact that you voted on the matter not even 10 years ago it was supposed to be a once in a generation vote. You have to respect the result of the 2014 vote that’s the democratic way. It democracy get used to it.

[@copyer9088]

@@rodvr_ptEng do you really think the people of Northern Ireland are going to back to have no NHS? As well of water tax’s? There no benefits to Irish unity just as well there’s no benefit to Scottish independence. H

[@rodvr_ptEng]

@@copyer9088 The UK is crumbling as a country since June 2016... The government is wrongly lead by a corrupted prime-minister. This institution is disregarding the other countries' needs. No real public investment is being done in Wales, Northern ireland and Scotland, in terms of devolution rights. Cornwall wants be considered as a historic nation and it wants to be autonomous like the other 3 fellow Celtic neighbour countries and England does not permit it. There is no such thing as a vote for a generation... There is always democracy and the will to be free from the foreign rule of England! A new referendum will be held, even if England loathes it. Good riddance. The NHS is being horribly destroyed and dismantled. The hate for the European immigrants is despicable and illogical. They were the ones "to fill in the gaps" for the "jobs" that the English did not want to perform and they also paid a lot of taxes (40% of their incomes were heavily taxed) to help to finance the central government's budget. Ireland will become a whole country again, even if the proudful English do not want it! The Good Friday agreement is severely damaged by your country's stupid and irracional policies agains the EU. Brexit is a total disaster. Pride is not Power! The proudful English will have England as their only portion of the country by 2030! Your country will once again be part of the EU, as soon as the Labour party forms a government in coalition with the Liberal democrats! Justice will be served, it is just a matter of time.

[@Brizlebird]

As an Englishwoman, I wish Scotland would just bugger off and take their whinging and whining elsewhere.

[@enric-x]

Who needs a British Union when you can have an European Union that does not trample on you?

[@ipadair7345]

@Mick&Rorty that was mostly Greece's fault for lying about its economy, and the goals required to adopt the Euro.

[@Cervando]

@Mick&Rorty It is entirely the Greek Governments fault for lying about their economy. Had they told the truth they wouldn't have been allowed in. Furthermore the UK also agreed to it at the time.

[@ffuzzo]

Is it mind blowing having England and northern Ireland in the same currency?

[@adarkimpurity]

Are you joking, right? You complete farcical moron; the UK has devolved powers out; the EU has centralised it.

[@andyleighton6969]

@@ffuzzo No because we have currency transfers and pooled debt, one of which the EU doesn't have and the other prohibited by A125 TFEU.

[@matthewbaynham6286]

Many countries have left the British empire and not one single country has wanted to rejoin the UK. Some of these countries have done economically very well (US, Canada, Australia) and some have done really badly economically (most of Africa). However none of them have even debated rejoining the UK. In must be better to leave, otherwise why wouldn't all those countries be begging to rejoin the UK.

[@jamiegray6931]

Malta wanted to be Annexed by the UK in the 1950s and 60s, the UK refused.

[@niallkinsella2687]

@@jamiegray6931 That was when Malta was part of the empire and was worried they would collapse when the empire was ended. Ask any Maltese person now and see how many of them want to be part of the UK.

[@jamiegray6931]

@@niallkinsella2687 I'm just correcting the history, not expressing a political opinion

[@niallkinsella2687]

@@jamiegray6931 And I wanted to ensure the historical context was appreciated.

[@jamiegray6931]

@@niallkinsella2687 fair enough, i wonder if there are any people that would like to join the UK, small islands and the like and if there are other places that want to join larger countries.

[@ghostwolf9499]

Scotland and Ireland should be free of UK, they will be better off with the EU.

[@arrax6440]

Scottish brand is very good in the world. Goodwill, marketing,, tourism, likebility factor etc. Flag, kilt, highlands.

[@jintsfan]

Who owns the whisky, salmon and oil industries ? Where do the profits go ?

[@markwilkie3677]

@@jintsfan Where do the taxes go?

[@johncullen9373]

Most importantly from a global and legal aspect your not lEnglish

[@jintsfan]

@@markwilkie3677 They go to the UK Exchequer. Flowing back from the UK Exchequer to Scotland is the equivalent of that AND a further £15BN to fill the gap in taxes raised and spending made.

[@markwilkie3677]

@@jintsfan Every penny of our taxes go to Westminster. The last figures show 65billion handed over, and 32billion returned via barnet .Then we are handed 15billion debt for Westminster's spending on UK priorities on our behalf, Trident weapons etc. Rather than receive a population share of our own resources, we will have the lot. Including the designated UK extra-regio areas which are in our waters and created to rob us blind. Scotland contains over half of UK land and maritime territory and its our turn to `take back control`.

[@Sinnistral]

6:40 Scotland doesn't have an army in the same way that England doesn't have an army so in my opinion that's a bit of a moot point - something would have to be worked out. Indeed, it would be an interesting area of discussion post independence when you consider the level of manufacture (BAE Systems on the Clyde), strategic importance (nukes, anyone?) and testing ranges in the Western Isles. The British armed forces has a lot to lose were Scotland to gain independence.

[@neodym5809]

Scotland keeping the nukes would be hilarious, as they are based in Scotland. Dont need much army if you can answer with a nuclear strike.

[@wendyhay1302]

The Highlanders are amongst the most feared and respected. If I remember correctly they wear kilts.

[@jedaye47]

Around 10,000 members of the British Army are Scots and around 7.5% of the MoD are too, the idea we couldnt defend ourselves is utter fearmongering considering nobody is gonna even try to in the modern day.

[@maxdavis7722]

@@jedaye47 those soldiers won’t just leave the UK forces and join Scotland’s forces should independence happen.

[@jedaye47]

@@maxdavis7722 I know a significant portion of service personnel who certainly would

[@Sam-eq9bu]

Scotland can’t ‘leave Britain’. Britain is an island, a geographical land mass. Scotland can however leave the United Kingdom.

[@cravingtuna1561]

You must be fun in parties

[@tacosmexicanstyle7846]

Ugh everyone knows and understands this term to refer to the UK, it’s even on its Wikipedia page. Language changes get over it.

[@martinplayz8645]

No, *Great* Britain is the Island. Britain is still an acceptable way of referring to the whole of the UK.

[@danielwebb8402]

Yeah, pro EU people struggle with that type of difference.

[@ipadair7345]

@@martinplayz8645 except for NI

[@SouthwesternEagle]

I was heavily against Scottish independence years ago, but ever since Brexit, I wholeheartedly support Scottish independence. I'll root for you guys.

[@SouthwesternEagle]

@rigamortice Things have changed since 2014...

[@voice_of_reason5604]

Funny I was / am the exact opposite ie voted leave in 2014 (childish protest vote) and would vote stay if there was a 2nd referendum. Don't trust SNP or Labour with full control of country's finances. Plus way more in common / strength of trading ties with rest of UK than EU. Plus, security and border control better as UK

[@voice_of_reason5604]

Where do you live?

[@TaySplatoon]

Scotland would never be able to join the EU

[@AlbannachEditz]

@@TaySplatoonOf course they would be able to join EU

[@christianholmenfrost]

If Scotland became independent I would instantly move from England (London) to Scotland. As a European I am tired of seeing my taxes go to lunatics in Westminster.

[@godlovesyou1995]

This is funny because europe makes westminster pook amazing. The EU is cumbersome, overly beaurcratic and never makes any change outside of the environment

[@neodym5809]

I see the Republic of Ireland as the perfect example why Scottish independence can be a success. Ireland was in much worse conditions than Scotland when it left the Uk, but is now wealthier per capita than the UK.

[@aaaaa4697]

We were also expected to mistreat religions other than Catholicism, but now we're just a very fast growing atheist population. Hope Scotland get independence then northern Ireland and then we all join the Schengen area. Tá fáilte romhat!

[@justonecornetto80]

Achieved entirely by running an illegal tax haven that rips off Ireland's trade partners and third world countries. Ireland's GDP figures are also grossly overinflated by the phantom economic activity of US multinationals who use Ireland for profit shifting purposes, this in turn masks GDP to debt ratio of what is now probably around 120% when the covid bill is added. Ireland is an example to nobody, it is a thief, nothing else.

[@catmonarchist8920]

*By helping massive corporations avoid tax to all Europe and depriving all EU nations of income as a result. Would left-leaning Scotland do that?

[@richardgregory3684]

Neatly overlooking the six or seven decades when it suffered horribly from separation. Ireland's success is due to one thing: it gave up it;s independence again, it just swapped Brussels for London, and kids itself that it is "independent". Even though Ireland doersn;t control it's own currency or laws and has a tiny handful of MEP's compared to big countries like France or Germany. Ireland is essentially a European province, they just won;t admit it to themselves. Found that out when the European Commission activated an emergency clause to block vaccine exports without even bothering to inform, let alone consult the Irish government. Only backed down when it caused a shitstorm in the various national governments.

[@mcr2356]

Think gdp figures in Ireland are misleading. Billions come through multi nationals that Ireland dosn't actually see that much of. Yes it's massively improved but not as much as it looks on paper.

[@chrisholdsworth524]

Characterising the third reason as 'how bad can it be' grossly undersells the points that are raised. Surely it would be fairer characterised as Scotland's potential to operate as an independent country and then divulge into renewables capacity, access to higher education, etc? Pitching it as 'how bad can it be' makes it sound like a wild punt rather than something that has genuine logic and sound reasoning behind it (which clearly renewable energy resources and a well educated population are). I also think the first point could be expanded beyond the England-centric arguement to focus on the increasingly opposite directions of travel of English and Scottish politics, i.e. the SNP and greens are getting more of the voter share than ever as are the Tories in England. SNP/greens offer very different politics to the Tories so in some ways it's only natural where you reach a point where there is a natural separation.

[@nitishlamba8451]

Can Spain veto scoland's application to join EU

[@lilbrit1019]

can i ask a question, so why would scottland want to join the eu? england did more trade with the eu then scottland, england buys i think its like 65% of your goods then i think the rest of the union takes it up just over 70% so why would scottland want to leave its biggest trade partner to join the EU whats going to make it harder to trade with said trade partner? then its also the fact that the EU doesnt have a barnet formula for you to run all your money tree schemes ect

[@lilbrit1019]

@@nitishlamba8451 they can but its hard to say if they will, some spanish politicians said their against it. But a indy scottland wont even be applicable for the standard of debt per capita their have

[@elliotwilliams7421]

@@lilbrit1019 40% of the goods sold to England was used as parts for items sold to the EU and the other 25% stayed in England. Are you proposing England stops producing items for the EU? It's biggest trading partner? Where will England get the goods if not from Scotland or the EU? Do you understand how Westminster controls the powers over foreign policy, mod, etc? The powers which attract investment. So the 60% figure you use comes under a Westminster government, for the figure you use to be true, you are assuming an independent Scotland olwould copy Westminster foreign and spending policies, why? If Scotland was to rejoin it would be 10 years at least, how do you know what UK and EU trading arrangements will be in 10 years, you're assuming everything stays exactly as is. Quite naive politically clearly

[@chrisholdsworth524]

@@lilbrit1019 Because 2 out of every 3 people voted for it in the 2016 referendum. For sure an indy Scotland would create more challenges with trade with England and like you say, it is the largest export market for Scotland. That would be a cost/negative of indy. Change doesn't come from free. I do wish the pro-indy parties would be more frank about this, but it would also be seen as a political own goal. If the EU ref had only been about trade then it would have been a no-brainer to stay in, but voters cared more about other issues. Brexit was also sold as a sort of all gain no downsides things, which imo was criminal. At least with indy there is a 500page white paper that details what an indy scotland might actually look like. Yes Scotland runs a fiscal deficit. This is because it spends more money on public services. There's two simple solutions to that problem. Either you raise more money through taxation or you spend less on public services. It's not a difficult problem to address. It's the same choice every independent country has to make.

[@conormurray6496]

When’s the United Ireland pin coming? 😜

[@imastaycool]

Reunited* Ireland 🇮🇪

[@user-cj1br1hx9q]

Soon. Cannot wait for that day to come🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪 Erin Go Bragh

[@godlovesyou1995]

@@imastaycool calm down kid and find something else to get angry at. Ireland was not united in language or culture before england arrived. There were many languages, modern Gaelic was only invented in the 1890s. Culturally it was divided. Parts had viking influence, ulster has often part of shared kindgoms with parts of scotland. (The Scotii tribe originally came from ireland even) Etc.

[@liamneil8918]

@A F Kingdom of Ireland 11th century

[@imastaycool]

@@godlovesyou1995 it honestly demonstrates how utterly DIM you people are... For most of recorded Irish history, Irish was the dominant language of the Ireland and it was even taken to other regions such as Scotland and the Isle of Man where Middle Irish thus created today's Scottish Gaelic and Manx... For example, Ogham was a basic form dating back to the 4th century and then Latin based written Irish since the 5th century, Irish is renowned as the oldest vernacular language in West of Europe. Can't you people do basic research or bother to educate yourselves before commenting publicly.

[@haggismacl]

Not a lot of Scots are a fan of having the UK nuclear subs right next to our most populous city either

[@rodgerq]

I voted no in 2014 but have since changed my mind. I've come to the realisation that England is a conservative country and Scotland just isn't. Conservatism doesn't represent me as a person at all either. Then there's brexit. A main pillar of the argument to vote no was that it was the only way to remain in Europe. And don't tell me the Tories didn't already know that the brexit vote was in the wings. I just won't have that. Thirdly, why in the hell would any country want to be governed by a government of another country? And any way you swing it, that's exactly what's happening, regardless of devolution. It's just mathematical. England has 10 time the amount of people; who it votes for is they government that will sit. Enough.

[@stickman6217]

But the SNP does represent you? So presumably you're extremely authoritarian and you believe people should be able to be arrested for "offensive" language they use in their own home?

[@rodgerq]

@@stickman6217 they more closely represent me than do the conservatives. But of course nuance doesn't exist in online debates.

[@stickman6217]

@@rodgerq hang on so you genuinely believe people should be arrested for that?...

[@rodgerq]

@@stickman6217 read my comment again. It's not even between the lines what I'm saying.

[@rodgerq]

@@stickman6217 I would suggest though, maybe read the bill or at least the parts of it pertaining to the issue on which you speak. Understand the position of the government and how high for prosecution the bar is, again pertaining to that specific issue.

[@e1123581321345589144]

Another pro independence argument is that joining the EU would probably be fast tracked sice they were already members, and being a EU member was one of the arguments against independence last time around.

[@jimpickins7900]

True just need to make sure its either done before serbia joins and not around a time spains separatists start shouting about independence.

[@copyer9088]

But surely if you leave the UK and then join the EU you won’t be independent as a member of the EU you have follow there laws and they have control over the boarders as well.

[@aidanking4197]

It’ll be a sad day to see the UK collapse. If Scotland leaves, Irish reunification becomes far more likely, Welsh nationalism gets a hefty boost. However, it’s clear Westminster doesn’t believe in treating its constituent peoples fairly or seriously. For the Scots to truly have their own say in their future, independence is likely the only path forward.

[@malahammer]

No it's not sad to see the collapse 😁☘

[@jacobmacaree3063]

You people keep saying this, "For the Scots to truly have their own say in their future, independence is likely the only path forward". What about the other 50% of people who voted against indyref? No, you don't care about Scottish people. You just want to see the UK falling apart.

[@lilbrit1019]

@@jacobmacaree3063 because we care about the whole union, not just 1 group of people unlike you

[@malahammer]

@@jacobmacaree3063 check what the latest polls say....unicorn!

[@ganados0]

@Greg Thompson And it's not a emphatic choice between the UK or republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland can be it's own independent country.

[@cevq6126]

7:00 “Brexit was supposed to mean … food shortages”. Hmm, checked your Tesco’s Local recently?

[@casperwallace9685]

Yep, they have removed alot of choice and stopped the bulk buying. Plus your limited in how many things you can buy.

[@steve8547]

"how bad could it be" - *proceeds to show actual footage and pictures of empty shelves and gridlock in Kent as if it never happened IRL*

[@PKM1010]

I just recalled the story about 2000 soldiers having to fill in for 100,000 (I believe?) truck drivers to deliver food to stores, how bad could it be?

[@QemeH]

@@PKM1010 I like how the conservative answer to basically anything is: "Don't worry, the army can handle this." And fair enough the UK has such a large and diverse military that they actually CAN do a lot (they also filled in for the security contractor at the Olympics for example). I'm just waiting for the day they propose the army fixing income inequality and lacking social security...

[@P44man]

@@QemeH How many refrigerated trucks does the UK army have?

[@Hession0Drasha]

Peak irony :)

[@Megalomaniakaal]

@@QemeH "I'm just waiting for the day they propose the army fixing income inequality and lacking social security..." Hmm sounds like communism to me, and I'm from an ex-soviet state...

[@beetgil]

Never heard anyone use the "how bad could it be" argument lol, it's much more "how bad it is"

[@Interitus1]

All the Scottish people I know, including my aunts voted to stay in the UK. But they also voted to stay in the EU. Now all those people that voted to stay say they will vote to leave in the next referendum.

[@lucastaylor2321]

Yes to independence No to the SNP

[@X-boomer]

It just makes no sense for Scotland to tolerate being ruled from Conservative England. Independence is as inevitable as the reunification of Ireland.

[@richardgregory3684]

So they are ruled from Brussels instead lol.

[@TrevorSturman]

I think Scotland would be okay. Yes as you say things may start off bad but the only way is up. Don't necessarily need an army, Iceland don't have one. Being part of an island nation, the main threat would be more from the south (England) but that means we could get a second Braveheart movie. The energy and education facts are very interesting to hear and I am sure their tourism would also thrive to help bolster their economy. Should they be able to rejoin the EU that would help them massively as well to rejoin the markey and get freedom of movement again

[@that1niceguy246]

The interesting ropics are also what would happen to the national debt, but like... just look at how Czechoslovakia did it for example, or debating over the currency situation where you can look at Ireland, both showed it worked and was not an issue. Currency: My Idea The banks currently issuing currency in Scotland should be regulated by the new independent government, they already have more than £5B in assets to back their currency. They could just erase the Sterling off their notes when it becomes an independent currency. Like the irish Banc Ceannais na hÉireann did, the government could peg the new Scottish Pound at a 1:1 rate to the pound, coins could be issued in the current dimensions but with a different design, preferably created as part of a competition. The state's assets: Czechoslovakia's approach but instead fit for Scotland and the UK -Infrastructure, immovable assets are allocated to the successive state -Movable property (Railway vehicles, Military equipment) is allocated to the successive states at a rate according to their population, in this case the UK:Scotland ratio would be 11.37:1 As to the national debt, i am not sure how much the central government has given to scotland's over the years, but that amount would be the absolute maximum amount of debt that scotland should recieve.

[@spawnofnamaah]

@@that1niceguy246 Joining the EU as an independent Scotland would most likely mean converting to Euro as the currency. That comes with its own set of pros and cons.

[@dm121984]

And to be fair, there are a few scottish-based regiments in the army - I suspect they'd side with their country in the event of independence and, if Scotland does decide to have an army, join that. But the only real threat on a military front in Europe, for now, is Russia, and frankly, if the Russians decide to invade, even totally conscripting every man, woman and child into the army wouldn't be enough to halt them. And Russia isn't equipped to geopolitically set up to invade Scotland.

[@LfrJacc]

Ok don't start, not only should we worry about inherited debt from leaving the union but the SNP government that will inevitably have full control over the country, Nicola's and the SNP's policy would bankrupt Scotland almost immediately and kill any chance of a successful economic development, unless of course we fancy 50,60,70% tax rates

[@benry007]

I'm english and used to be against Scottish independence but I'm now I think let them have a go and see what happens.

[@joancampbell9157]

Let them go? Did the U.K. ask the EU to “let them go?” There you have the biggest reason for independence. We are not owned by England! The decision to leave the union will be made in Scotland then we will negotiate the divorce. Of course, having seen Westmidden’s inability to negotiate sensibly we’ll most likely be on a winner.

[@polaris7122]

Yes let them go, please God, save us a fortune!

[@atholbayne]

@@joancampbell9157 no divorce agreement just one day part of union next not

[@Simonmc78]

You're not entitled to an opinion

[@atholbayne]

@@Simonmc78 why

[@overlongname]

"How bad can it be?" implies a positive spin on a negative outlook but in my experience independence supporting Scots have a much more positive outlook, focused on typically long term things like improved standard of living (due to more socialist leaning electorate), greater ties with Europe (rejoining EU), better government accountability (e.g. Margaret Ferrier compared with Tories who broke lockdown rules), etc. The short term costs are nothing compared to the long term benefits.

[@JoannaHammond]

The primary reason is simply it is their choice, not ours.

[@gonzalez7678]

Hi

[@jcurtis04]

Scotland has a parliament, not an assembly 4:15. They make a point on us finally getting it after 1997, but still misname it as an assembly; with not mention of the political struggle that it took to get and the backhanded deal from 1979 that stopped us getting it sooner that has an impact on todays political outlook from Scotland on how WM treats us, or misname our institutes...

[@andrewjones-productions]

Same for Wales. Our Senedd (which means Senate) is officially a parliament. The name came about when the Welsh Assembly gained parliament status.

[@ironicbrew19]

Never met a nationalist that that has asked 'How bad can it be' more like, 'how bad is it going to be under more Tory cuts?' The answer: Really fucking bad.

[@billjane5522]

No such thing as cuts. The reality is the UK is a low taxation economy and people like you will soon be crying if your tax was raised. Income tax needs to be at least 30% to 50% at £60K with no exceptions. Taxation is way too low in UK

[@franganr.e.searthra-macleo9214]

Wonder if Scotland could survive on its own? Awright, just study the case of Estonia once the Soviet Union broke apart then 🤘

[@tomdoodey4136]

They got PETROL paid in dollars not pound

[@johncullen9373]

Boris is turning England into a shithole, best Scotland breaks away before it gets dragged down with it. Globally the UK government are liars and cant be trusted. Scotland doesnt need that reputation.

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

So many countries survived "on their own" after leaving British rule. Estonia? How about Singapore which got kicked out of the Malaysian Federation then went from strength to strength? But the more you delay the moment, the harder it becomes; you risk becoming like one of those French territories that are happy to live with 30-35% unemployment and no economy to speak of because the Motherland provides them all kinds of benefits.

[@franganr.e.searthra-macleo9214]

@@scotchperson Estonia "was" annexed. Is it still? Naw, Estonia is a free wee independent nation, member of both EU and NATO and the cherry on top of the cake is that Estonia is the most digitalised society on earth. So yeah, in your statements you're right for both countries mentioned. Yet the act of union 1707 was the reason both joined together, still, today it becomes less and less popular in Scotland due to Scots supporting independence more than ever. Let's see what the future brings ✌️

[@ems7623]

Not every post-Soviet nation has done as well as Estonia. And Scotland's situation is FAR from comparable to a post-Soviet state.

[@TBFI_Botswana]

Except it shouldn't...

[@darrencorr5903]

As an Irish guy, and EU citizen, I would LOVE to see our Celtic cousin, and culturally and linguistically closer neighbour of Scotland become independent and rejoin the EU. An Irish/Scottish free trade bloc within the EU, similar to the Nordic countries could be beneficial for both nations.

[@travisdejong2354]

Devolution is the answer. Create an English parliament and change the House of Lords so that each country gets equal representation. The domination by England is greatly lessened.

[@isaacrawlings1651]

Well the fact that the union is dominated by England can’t be changed. We can’t go about giving Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland more MPs and lords per person than England as that is not proportional

[@bobfinlayson3377]

Nice idea but never going to happen. The UK was conceived as a way of England getting domination over the whole of the British Isles, something they had been trying to do for centuries. They are not going to give that up without a fight. The notion of 'Britishness' was introduced by the English as a way of trying to kill off the culture, language and history of the other nations. Yet after all this time their attempts at assimilation have failed. While the Empire existed the concept of Britishness was never questioned. Since Brexit, the concept of 'Britishness' is being seen for what it is, merely a cover for English nationalism. The other three countries of the UK are now being treated with the same 'colonialist' attitudes by Westminster as any former member of the empire ever was.

[@Muzza8888]

A missed positive would be 'being in the EU' which has pretty glaring advantages.

[@promc7318]

arguably not as much of an advantage as it looks on the surface. EU membership would mean the adoption of the Euro and a hard Scottish English border. Scotland does most of its trade with England and joining the EU would make it very difficult to import Scottish goods to England . Thats even if they are allowed to join. Spain has already said that it will veto Scottish membership probably because of Catalonia.

[@papapeethehunks]

Empires should no longer exist in our times. Independence for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland! Also the remaining British colonies.

[@MarkOfArgyll]

Points in no particular order: Currency: Scotland can choose to use whatever currency it wants to, it does not need permission. Have a look at other countries around the world that use a currency that isn't native to them. Finances: The UK runs at a deficit too, as do most countries. The UKs credit rating has been falling for years now, and international banks will look at Scotland differently from rUK. Border: That's certainly more tricky. If the rUK remains outside of the EU then a border would be required and I can imagine a lot of issues being created by Westminster to highlight this. Invasion: Scotland is on very good terms with all of it's European neighbours, the only near by country that could have an interest in the years to come would be Russia or possibly rUK. In the event of Russia, does anyone think that rUK, the EU, or even the USA, would just stand back and say "nothing to do with us"? rUK would have very real reasons for wanting to defend Scotland, as would the EU and the USA as the north of Scotland is a tactical position. As for military force, Scotland would have an army due to the way countries split up assets like that. NATO: The USA would want to have Scotland for the tactical position it holds, being near Russia isn't a small thing combined with the various listening bases already in Scotland. If rUK tried to block any member it would need to have a strong argument, which is unlikely. SNP BAD: There are a large number of people who are quite vocal about how bad the SNP are, however in most cases when you compare the rest of the UK with a similar eye Scotland isn't doing badly at all. In England the NHS is failing to meet targets more frequently. Drug deaths are rising, the Police have no confidence in their own Home Secretary. There have been more protests against Westminster than the rest of the UK combined. Many of the alleged failings of the SNP have been caused by the way funding from central government is set up and the restrictions in place in using them. The SNP is far from perfect, it has made mistakes however I've never saw any other leader of the UK stand up and take responsibility the same way Nicola Sturgeon has. You'll often see demands for her resignation from the unionists but these same people are quite happy to have Westminster carry on lying to the public and to the House of Commons. There is a degree of double standards when it comes to Scotland in particular. End of Devolution: This is certainly one of Westminster's current aims, it wants all of the Countries in the UK to be "equal". That should mean for England in particular is an end to prescription charges, free/cheaper travel on public transport, cheaper water rates, no university tuition fees, free sanitary products, cheaper council tax charges, child care payments. However what it actually means is the end to all of these in Scotland. Independent Scotland ruled by the SNP: If the SNP manage to get independence for Scotland it's likely they would be elected again at least for the first term. However, an independent Scotland would allow parties like The Conservatives and Labour to be completely free from Westminster. Allowing them to decided their own policies that are right for the Scottish people. With all parties focused on making Scotland a better place Scotland can only benefit from this.

[@martinplayz8645]

What makes you think that International banks would look at Scotland differently? Without massive amounts of austerity Scotland will constantly be running a deficit that makes it incompatible to join the EU.

[@JustaRandomGuy890]

Free Scotland my lads!!!!

[@tartanthing]

@@martinplayz8645 Err, oil. BTW, I've lost count on how many times we've been told oil is running out. It seems to run out every time the support for Independence grows qv Cambo oil field, 800m barrels. Where do you get your nonsense figures from? Why is Scotland, in your opinion, the only country *in the entire world* incapable of self determination?

[@sirBrouwer]

just a question but I see that you are using the term rUK when referring to the UK in your arguments. What does the ''r'' stand for?

[@MarkOfArgyll]

@@sirBrouwer Essentially, rest of the UK or remainder of.

[@igavinwood]

Another area that is a massive benefit to Scotland is it's identity. Scotland has a long and distinct history; it's own set of national heroes; historical accademic and industrial achievements; places of interest and culture. A country isn't a line drawn on a map, it's the people in it too and the people can stand up on their own and clearly state "This is who we are. This is Scotland."

[@ems7623]

That's hardly an issue to form policy around. It is completely possible to assert a very strong sense of identity as part of a larger state. There are countless examples of this across Europe - not all have seperatist movements.

[@STEALTH1DAN]

I would hate the weather, but if Scotland goes independent I will relocate north.

[@angussoutter7824]

Bring a mac 🤣🤣🤣

[@CNERail]

Move to North East Scotland then, we're sheileded by the caringorms, sunniest bit of Scotland

[@robertgalloway3771]

Plenty of water for drinking and growing crops, feeding animals. England is not making enough attempts at building water storage facilities, the weather might at times be better(Drier), but have no real vision for the future. Energy comes is also a problem, England going for nuclear, more costly, pollution and expensive to close it down at end of life, Scotland has a far more caring for its population, and achievements, spends within its boundaries, considering not being able to use its own resources, more out going> The Scottish Government listens to its people, is concerned about their health and education, it is a pity that Scotland is being restricted from the country it could and should be!!

[@finaraya4349]

@@CNERail haha yes but Aberdeen is the least sunny city in Britain I love being shrouded in cloud while a few Kms inland it’s summer

[@finaraya4349]

@@robertgalloway3771 haha Cus England’s run by a bunch of pampered private school boys who’s only wish it to get richer

[@alicequayle4625]

Funny that'Brexit hasn't caused empty shelves' comment. As of 1st Oct 2021 is starting to look accurate.

[@JeroenJA]

just before 7 min in! oh, i really was confussed by that that bit! it looked like news images we DID see last days about UK , but they must have been historic look-a-likes, since this video is from august :-D

[@HMSVanguard46]

It's due to a lack of drivers

[@JeroenJA]

@@HMSVanguard46 mmm, and about 50.000 went away because of brexit...

[@JeroenJA]

@Ian Martin well, it's dripping in the EU, while it's stroming in the UK.. thanks to UK warning we start taking it more seriously then we otherwise probably would. But i can't even think of a single tank station i've seen without petrol to tank :). empty shells, some, mostly UK produce not entering any more

[@Nick-kz6dg]

The sheer *audacity* of people who wanted "freedom" from the EU and in the same breath are denying Scotland any further devolution. If Scotland is denied further devolution, then logically they're going to aim for independence instead.

[@toffeesky6227]

What don't they have devolved control over? Military and foreign affairs is all that springs to mind.

[@aftokratory]

I agree. If the UK had remained in the EU, opposing Scottish independence would be at least somewhat convincing, but now that the UK itself decided to leave the EU, at the discontent of the majority of Scottish people, opposing Scotland leaving the UK is just hypocrisy. Scotland likely would have voted to stay if the UK stayed in the EU, but since the UK left for independence and more sovereignty, I see no reason as to why Scotland shouldn't do the same.

[@aftokratory]

I agree. If the UK had remained in the EU, opposing Scottish independence would be at least somewhat convincing, but now that the UK itself decided to leave the EU, at the discontent of the majority of Scottish people, opposing Scotland leaving the UK is just hypocrisy. Scotland likely would have voted to stay if the UK stayed in the EU, but since the UK left for independence and more sovereignty, I see no reason as to why Scotland shouldn't do the same.

[@MrDesmondPot]

England (particularly working class England) will miss Scotland more than Scotland will miss England. Good luck Scotland. Boy oh boy is it rough living under and with non-stop Torydom.

[@justonecornetto80]

How do you come to that conclusion?

[@MrDesmondPot]

@@justonecornetto80 Once Scotland go it’ll mean no SNP to bolster the opposition and fill out seats. Not that we even actually have much of an opposition currently, but without the former Labour stronghold of Scotland it’ll be a Tory majority for years to come. In their current state there won’t be another Labour government in my lifetime I feel. Ever decreasing social investment. Ever increasing inequality. Never ending corruption and lies. Outside of the heartlands England will be left to rot. All the while blaming the poor for the rich stealing from them. Wales and NI will watch. Scotland will settle in, rejoin the EU, shift their economy to suit the pressing times. Wales and NI will want independence. Why should they be punished for Little England’s ignorance. Eventually the English hard right goon squad will wake up and realise they’ve been misled by leeches, no more forriners to blame and no more Scots to wear the cuts, and it’ll be carnage. Once a clear talking charismatic orator emerges from the great unwashed to clearly communicate what fools they’ve been then the South of England had better install extra gates. The barbarians are coming South East England. They’re coming. May not be this year or next but they’re coming. Run!

[@orianhutton8711]

@Null Pointer The EU didn't give a tinker's damn about NI and used Ireland as a political pawn. The Torys might have been able to do better, but Theresa May made it very difficult with her 'deal'. The question of Scottish independence is far more important than being anti-Tory and/or anti-English.

[@chrissaltmarsh6777]

A couple of years ago I was talking to a man who lives on Ulva, a small island off Mull. There had been a community buyout of the island (that's why I was there, I'd done some fund raising). Well, Chris, he said, if we f*** it up, at least it is US who f*** it up. That I do understand. A mixture of points 1 and 3.

[@emmalottie3346]

Isnt that the arguement for brexit?

[@jeffreymaclean83]

Colonialism,imperialism and Abuse.

[@tanyapavlova4758]

As someone who has lived in Scotland since 2013 I have thought long and hard on this matter. I just don't see a way forward with the current setup. Not only are the conservatives slated to win because they have rebranded as English nationalists, but they will do so without actually getting the majority of the vote. I don't think that they have acted in Scotland's best interest (nor England, Wales or Northern Ireland for that matter) and I don't see that changing. I don't see them changing the voting system for Westminster either, as it helps them get a majority with 40% of the vote. A country (at least a democratic one) only works if everyone believes in it.

[@rackellar]

You have the best of both worlds in the current set up. You are supported economically by being part of a union of peoples who live on this island, and have devolution that pretty much gives the Scottish government power over all but a few things. Any problems in Scotland rest at the feet of the SNP and Scottish Government. Not the UK.

[@soutarman]

@@rackellar a few things? Drug policy, foreign policy, considering Scotland has a bad drug problem it wouldn't be better for us to decide what to do. Blame the SNP if you like, there are pros and cons to every party. One thing that is certain, they are a magnitude better than the tories, who control way more than "a few things".

[@soutarman]

@@rackellar note im wont get in to a debate on here, would rather do that over a pint, so I wont be commenting any further to save the "nothing to say?" nonsense that I see all the time 🙏🏼

[@rackellar]

@@soutarman I’m sorry but drug policy is enforced by police Scotland, which is controlled by the SNP. However sturgeon has already shown her contempt for the rule of law following that immigration removals case in Glasgow, so no wonder things are so bad with drug enforcement in Scotland at the moment.

[@thomastallis7245]

@@rackellar I'm also sorry to point this out. But, drug policy is just that, policy, not legislation. Drug legislation in the UK (Misuse of Drugs Act 1971) has no separate Scottish equivalent. The Act is under the sole control of the Home Office, which includes, and envelopes policing, and drug related prosecutions and sentencing. Scotland has absolutely no devolved competency to legislate over drugs. The current Scottish minister for drug policy has recently announced that the Scottish Government will go ahead with 'Safe Consumption Rooms', which is currently against the law according to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, and the Home Office ruling. SG minister Angel Constance aims to apply a "Public Health" approach to the situation, as it's all that's within devolved remit. Your comment on the immigration case holds no water. The public themselves took action to stop a right wing government plucking people from their homes.

[@derekbrown3165]

Scotland leaving the UK would be an unmitigated disaster for Scotland.

[@turcsanyiferenc2091]

I think every person and every nation should have the right for self-determination without the reliance of a 3rd person or nation. It's up to the Scots to decide their future.

[@turcsanyiferenc2091]

@rigamortice My point was that Scotland should have the right to vote for independence without asking for permission from Westminster. If a person or nation has to do that it is not real self-determination or real freedom. Edited - you can compare the UK's withdrawal from the EU to the independence vote of Scotland, if you wish. The UK didn't need to ask for anyone's permission to withdraw from the EU. While Scotland has to ask for permission. I am just wondering here what freedom we provide to our four nations and if the system we have in place is democratic or autocratic.

[@acidbearer9036]

Sure does sound like he’s pitching down his audio. It’s very distracting.

[@neilstokes8636]

Defo sounds strange

[@Cunnysmythe]

I think he's being swayed by how the guy with the lower voice gets complimented on it and I think Jack himself was complimented for his own lower voice when he was ill once

[@adarkimpurity]

So pathetic! ;D They lie too; they are obsessive traitors. They are like weird aliens now.

[@thepittstop]

I think he said in another video that he isn't in the studio at the moment so he is using his laptop's microphone

[@webchimp]

Playback at 1.25x sounds a little bit fast but sounds a lot better

[@mfitzy100]

England is a conservative country, Scotland is more left leaning politically. That’s why there’s such a divergence

[@espanolspaniel9453]

"Devolution isn't an option" - uses Boris Johnson as proof. Pretending that the Tories represent all unionists is unfair and inaccurate. The Tories were never in favour of devolution unless their arms were twisted: it was Labour who granted Scotland its devolved powers, and Corbyn was a vocal supporter of Irish republicanism and of Scottish self-determination within the UK.

[@20storiesunder]

Seeing as it's likely labour won't see a chance to be a goverment in the next twenty years the assumption that it's all in the tories hands isn't a bad one.

[@skylongskylong1982]

Out of the 5 million people who live in Scotland, according to the Economist only 130,000 citizens pay positive tax. This basically means they pay more tax than get from using Government services, such as education, NHS, libraries, etc. So 130,000 Scots in the black. 4.85 000000 Scots in the red. These statistics show immediately after Scottish Independence they will be financially in the red, even when taking oil, fishing, agriculture, industries into equation. Do not take my word for it ,check the statistics Scotland.

[@alexv1872]

No that's actually normal the riches people pay more taxes and fund Government services it's like that in most countries

[@skylongskylong1982]

@@alexv1872 if you are correct most Countries are in the red. Your logic is flawed.

[@alexv1872]

@@skylongskylong1982 most people get back more from the government then they pay that doesn't that country is in the red since the richer people pay more taxes they support the majority of the population works like that everywhere

[@bazengineer]

Everyone in the UK pays 20% tax on almost everything they buy, I would love to know how almost the entire population of Scotland manages to get away with not paying it. Your facts are at best misguided and at worst an outright lie.

[@emib6599]

Another weak but valid argument for Scotland indipendence are the comments of english nationalists about Scotland indipendence.

[@justonecornetto80]

There's nothing weak about pointing out the rather gaping flaws in their logic. Like how they're going to pay for it without decimating public services and doubling taxes as well as why the rest of the UK should show them generosity when they've been spitting in our faces for the last 15 years.

[@oscarnavarro8019]

It can only be on two issues that they can go sailing on independence. As you mentioned, security is the most important one knowing the political climate in the world. Don't have to be farther enemy when it comes to the taking of the country. Its ok education is there. What is education when there is no opportunity in the land. SCOTLAND had this wealth at the present was due the supplement finance from UK and other services from UK. These would be taken away when independence kicks in. Security, monetary, health services and support financially as well as trade. Scotland can't only be boasting on whisky and mountains for tourism..

[@that1niceguy246]

It's their opinion, they are allowed to voice it, but the problem is how they voice them often. Or how their best argument is how Scotland wouldn't be able to afford it's current social services without raising taxes as if the UK didn't have a load of debt and deficits and still manages to function ->Deficit in 2019 per inhabitant: £769.39 (£ 51.28B in absolute numbers) ->Debt in 2019 per inhabitant: £28,373.14 (£ 1891.07B in absolute numbers) [Inhabitants in 2019: 66.65 Million in the entire UK]

[@emib6599]

I was talking about the arrogance. The desire to break away from a group that consider you inferior and treat you bad is a weak argument. But is perfectly understandable and valid.

[@bencheung1482]

Q.1 Who paid for those wind turbines? Westminster Q.2 Who paid for the free university education in Scotland (only free in Scotland, not in England or Wales ) making it the region with the most university graduates in Europe? Westminster Q.3 How will Scotland pay for the above after independence? Not to mention the mounting public spending and the continuous drop in gas prices.

[@paulmcmahon864]

Who did Westminster pay for "those wind turbines"? Its called "tuition fees". Why did Westminster pay for this and when did Westminster decide to pay for this?

[@niallkinsella2687]

No. Scottish university tuition is paid for out the Scottish government's budget. Which is only a fraction of what Scotland contributes to the UK treasury.

[@paulmcmahon864]

@@niallkinsella2687 Thanks Niall. You've exposed Ben Cheung's misinformation for what it is.

[@wordsmith451]

“UK politics is becoming too focused on England” 😂 becoming? Sure, in the same way that humans have recently become particularly obsessed with breathing.

[@izimations]

I mean what do you expect? England as 56 million people While Scotland has 5

[@wordsmith451]

@@izimations I expect the Scottish people to be able to determine their own fate without being hopelessly tied to a political system that doesn’t respect or represent them.

[@justonecornetto80]

@@wordsmith451 They didn't have a problem when the Labour party was in power and most of the cabinet consisted of Scots.

[@wordsmith451]

@@justonecornetto80 source? Or further clarification?

[@wordsmith451]

@marek nitka if using one emoji is enough to trigger you, I’m surprised you can handle the internet at all. What’s truly cringe is focusing on that instead of the substance of my statement.

[@SuperSmashDolls]

One Argument in Favour of Scottish Independence: "England got to do it, why can't we?"

[@alisonsmith4801]

Wasn't aware I had an independent English Goverment to vote for, can you tell me were I vote for one, or were it's located, thanks from a pissed off Northern

[@bikashrrmagarrudra2511]

Yes🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Scotland Independence🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@ioan.gs7077]

PLEASE stop calling it the welsh assembly

[@conors4430]

The Scots dont want to be led by unelected foreign bureaucrats in London. They need to be able to protect their borders, and deserve their independence and freedom from a union that takes more than it gives. Sound familiar?

[@jacobmacaree3063]

"foreign government" lmao "freedom from a union that takes more than it gives" *wheeeeeeeze* hahahahahahahahhahahahaha edit: Notice I didn't make any arguments, its because I would be a fool to try and convince another fool.

[@emmalottie3346]

Um EU people are appointed but UK MPs are elected, some even for scotland. Admittedly the fairness of the election format is up for debate but still

[@joshuacarre06]

Scotland deserves independence love to scot from Wales

[@jedaye47]

Cymru am Blyth, from Scotland!

[@no4869]

No, Scotland needs us. You can't survive without England

[@jedaye47]

@@no4869 aye I'm sure we couldnt survive as much smaller and less economically developed countries have... sooner die on my feet than my knees.

[@stickman6217]

Yeah but at least Scotland is mildy useful, Wales just needs to be removed from the map.

[@tnickknight]

@@no4869 You have that backwards.

[@grahamleiper1538]

At the time of Union in 1707, Scotland had a fifth of the population of England. After 300 years of "benefitting from this glorious union" it's a tenth. 2001 Scottish population was lower than 1951. Some unionists need to defend that somehow. We struck oil, our population fell, we literally got poorer. Welcome to the UK. Scotland/England border was much more scary pre Covid. Look at how the Australian states could close borders.

[@thegrandmuftiofwakanda]

McScottish McIndependence : No legal argument No moral argument No economic argument No democratic argument It's not going to happen, kiddies.