John List | OCPD Killer? | Mental Health & Personality

[@gj4257]

“Midlife crisis- of course this is not a disorder, it rarely leads to murder, but it often leads to buying a Corvette.” Hahahhahahahaha!!! Classic!

[@scarlettchappendenden9059]

I know! Hysterical! Dr. Grande has comedic genius!

[@deadlysquirrel5560]

You beat me to it! My ex bought a 2001 Z06 at age 42. But of course he is my ex because he didn't stop there.

[@scarlettchappendenden9059]

@Marylee Macpherson Gosh how awful. I get it honey. x

[@geraldfriend256]

@@deadlysquirrel5560 wow sounds just like American Beauty.okhaveaniceday

[@worsethanjoerogan8061]

It can also lead to a counselor starting a popular psychology KZbin channel

[@redlikewineagain697]

Thank you for doing this talk on John List. This was a haunting case. Many of the things John List did to his family reminds me of the things Chris Watts did to his family. John List went to see one of his sons play soccer before brutally killing him; Chris watts bathed and read to his children before murdering them. John List contacted his children's schools to let them know they were taking an extended holiday; Chris Watts contacted the girls' daycare to let them know they wouldn't be there that day. John List was sure to make his lunch after he murdered his family; Chris Watts packed his lunch for work after he murdered his family. Bizarre. Two very sick men.

[@rashajarina8949]

Exactly. I was thinking about Chris watts the whole time when listening to this.

[@CP-ir3ft]

look up xavier dupont de ligonnès. he's like the french version of john list. except he was never found.

[@bcvids9]

@@CP-ir3ft *Yet*. Hasn't been found yet

[@shombie2737]

Great comparison analysis. One contrast is that Watts smothered while List shot, which seems more impersonal.

[@4Mr.Crowley2]

Not in close quarters like that - shooting at close range like that is still personal - especially serially executing your own children ffs. See also see Robert Spangler, another monster family annihilator who shot AND smothered his own teenage son after killing his wife and daughter - telling his wife to “cover her eyes” because he was giving her an early Christmas present. He shot her in the head, and he claimed she killed herself AND the children - sound similar to Watts? Ugh.

[@meggallucci5300]

Scary guy. He was so cold. Not only did he kill his entire family, but he seems to have gone about life as though nothing happened. Thanks, Dr. Grande.

[@polarbearsrus6980]

Right, a narcissist has no empathy, they can kill with no problem. Look at Chris Watts.

[@dezarayfagg4076]

Sitting at my son's baseball practice watching this. Someone came up asking what I was watching and when I said the psychology of murderers they looked at me like I was crazy. Lol mission accomplished and maybe people will leave me to your videos

[@11AceHearts11]

I would've either asked for the channel name or asked if I could watch with you. Lol That is, had I been brave enough to approach you in the first place. Social anxiety, yay! Lol

[@DarknessUnresolved]

Well that's what folks get for being fuckin' nosy!

[@TheSkeetergirl]

Love it.😅

[@cmfaue]

John List worried about money throughout his marriage. It's ironic how the stained glass windows over the ballroom wound up to be worth a fortune.

[@Benzo1818]

it was made by Tiffany & Co

[@doxasophosmoros]

@@Benzo1818 I think it was made by Louis tiffany himself... or his son rather, who was a glass artist, from memory. I'm in love with beautiful art, and the tiffany family were artistic, and that style from that 1900s and 1920s era was beautiful. Tiffany and Co is the same family but i don't think they make glass anymore.. and they certainly don't make big ballroom ceilings. the fact that the actual son of Louis Tiffany himself crafted that ceiling is why it was so insanely beautiful and valuable. It was true art. Remember the company today has nothing to do with it's origins anymore.... I don't even think it's owned by Americans anymore, which is even worse... :( probably was sold out to some evil.chinese tryant oligarch like most thriving businesses and family businesses and inventions, farms,and, properties etc were- to by far the biggest polluter (both air and ocean by at least 80 percent) and environmental abuser and humans rights abuser on earth; China: which people finally realise now was THE BIGGEST MISTAKE THE modern world has ever, ever, EVER made 🤮🤮🤮🤮😣😣😫😫..... Sadly we will never again see a work of art crafted like that stain glass ceiling. I wish there was at least a photo of it ;( History was lost, and whoever burnt that building down was a complete moron (likely someone/people wanting to remove the home for their own interests, either a neighbour or maybe it was just a teen or bum who accidentally started a fire... though I'm sure the fire department could have worked that out! I reckon the home was too expensive to buy , only option was to tear down but that makes it worse; because it was heritage and these days there's NO WAY you could destroy a building like that. Anyone smart would have taken out the dome ceiling, the windows and doors and antiques artifacts, (and 90 percent of that house was not actually touched by murder) and then demolished if at all. Bu unlike all other murder homes, i would live in it, and I think most people would ... it was a truly beautiful home. That home and the ceiling was likely the biggest loss of all😂😅 now that I've thought this through... ;( so sad!!!! Sadly , people in the 70s really took for granted the beauty of 'old world" and anything pre ww2.. 🙄😡 and post modernist art and architecture was by far the worst thing to happen to us culturally. So ugly. ... my young generation (im a 30 yr old) hates what the boomers did to the gorgeous old stuff. They replaced it with cheap Chinese made SHIT. and today the buildings made by China are actually so poorly made, they are dangerous. Million dollar shoe box apartments, yet they are mouldy, poor plumbing , cheap carpet, no artisan craftsmanship, loud and not private... I know cause i lived in one... 1000 dollars a week and they are all over the east coast of Australia. Ugly buildings and even the cities are shit now, full of crime from sudanese... it's just a huge crap hole. And Melbourne is full of them.... criminals from sudan , if you have been to Sydney or Melbourne you know what I mean... of all immigrants we laid to bring THEM OVER?? wtf, they have murdered and destroyed so many lives here. Other Africans HATE THOSE Sudanese. Their culture is so backwards and violent. Why did the govt bring them to Australia,!!!!???? Probably George Soros asked them to! Wouldn't shock me! and it's those ghetto ugly Towers that also made the virus so bad... those ugly things are just nasty, nothing good comes from them. I said this for years... when will people wake up? Melbourne and Sydney are proven to be ANOTHER spineless, useless Chinese lap dog for NWO/one world govt/open society fund. Utterly corrupt and seedy. And holy shiteee I went on a rant there lol... but my train of thought was on a run haha. And it all relates back into eachother , too. The architecture and different ideologies, plus how messed up society has become and lost it's way both in art and in just making everything Cheap and dangerous. it never works but people learn the hard way, sadly. Likewise that ceiling should have been saved and preserved but it shows how LITTLE IT was appreciated!! which is so typical of that era, and of baby boomers! And you can see the ugly legacy around you, of bad taste , mismanagement and throwing out anything traditional etc is a huge mistake. It's encompassed and evident in everything, and it's too little too late for people to only realise NOW what a huge loss it was. Where were you when it needed saving? Meanwhile you're silent as thugs are destroying statues and beautiful old buildings, and HISTORY which has given you Freedom and technology etc... and you're cowardly just letting shit burn. .... so.... How many of you are TOTAL hypocrites !!!??? It's maddening!!

[@doxasophosmoros]

The Tiffany ceiling should have been saved and preserved but it shows how LITTLE IT was appreciated!! which is so typical of that era, and of baby boomers! And you can see the ugly legacy around you, of bad taste , mismanagement and throwing out anything traditional etc is a huge mistake. It's encompassed and evident in everything, and it's too little too late for people to only realise NOW what a huge loss it was. Where were you when it needed saving? Meanwhile you're silent as thugs are destroying statues and beautiful old buildings, and HISTORY which has given you Freedom and technology etc... and you're cowardly just letting shit burn. .... so.... How many of you are TOTAL hypocrites !!!??? It's maddening!!

[@shombie2737]

@@doxasophosmoros Join a historical society. You'll find like-minded people who do cherish craftsmanship and try to preserve the past. Old World immigrants once brought their skills to architecture and design. But older buildings like Victorian homes are drafty and not practical, and expensive to refurbish. My mom spent 30 years restoring hers. Most families can't afford to keep up these beautiful old houses.

[@fedorsynthman]

@@doxasophosmoros wow, that was quite a speech, I agree with you 100%. May I kindly ask, are you american?

[@deadlysquirrel5560]

If John List was Dan Cooper he never would have left his tie behind, as Dan did. I remember the AMW episode, not only did that Denver neighbor recognize him from the bust, but from the FBI profile that said "he would probably do yard work while wearing a shirt and tie". That sealed the deal for the neighbor, as she had witnessed him mowing the yard in shirt and tie everytime.

[@mrooz9065]

I’ve known people who reportedly took their tie and shirt off only after they put their bottom pijama.

[@Jen-X333]

Wow...that is very interesting, thanks for sharing👍

[@funneboneskupcake3694]

Whoa that's so crazy!

[@india1422]

I wear perfume while alone at home. Goodness knows what that says about me

[@briancrawford8751]

@@nazikiller0164 So did my grandfather. He only appeared in public without a tie when he was within about 72 hours of death.

[@hawaiidahoanbarefootmoonga9555]

Ahhhhhh Dr. Grande. Just what my day needed...unfettered logic.

[@wmelliott3802]

Yes in a world gone mad it's bliss.

[@IrishHoopers]

With a side ordered of wit, extra dry

[@brianmelody8930]

Stumbled across his channel last week, became addicted immediately.

[@pinkymii072]

with a side of apparently villainizing the mentally ill by 'diagnosing' monsters based off of something they've probably barely heard of and just thought 'oh, he did this thing over and over? Repeated behaviors? This must mean OCD, after all that's all OCD entails, strange how the Mentally Ill and Deranged can be so evil huh?' I'm really sorry for my salt but can someone please just TLDR his reasoning because I really don't want to listen to this man

[@franmellor9843]

Such a fascinating case, how he was caught , is even more interesting

[@josephjude1290]

Can you do a psychological profile on Cardinal Theodore McCarrick and the covering up of sex abuse. Great channel.

[@jessa.4529]

Sittin' in a parking lot, eating my takeout, watching a profile on mental health and personality factors on Jon List by the good doctor. Pandemic style.

[@sycamoresally5643]

“Midlife crisis ... often leads to buying a Corvette.” You made me laugh out loud. Thank you! He looked his mother in the face and killed her. Cold. Excellent statement of facts and analysis, Dr. G.

[@scarlettchappendenden9059]

Oh my goodness! The dead pan humour is so clever and true! A Corvette! You are so brilliant Dr. Grande. Thank you. X

[@spookyboo22]

Hi Dr Grande Please can you do a video on extreme minimalists. The sort of person who has 42 possessions you see on you tube? Thanks

[@alwaysyouramanda]

I would argue that capitalist society is a sort of mass hysteria. I wonder even if a catastrophe in our ancient past left a seething scar..

[@Hadria7777]

@@alwaysyouramanda I'm with you on that

[@india1422]

I’m like that. 42 sewing machines. Well, not quite

[@DEPARTMENTOFREDUNDANCYDEPT]

This is a daily highlight!

[@PrissyHippie]

I can't help but wonder if the syphilis his wife transmitted to him didn't have an affect on his mental status. What a wicked secret to keep from a spouse.

[@gregoryjgarcia3862]

Agreed, truly wicked.

[@davinasquirrel7672]

It is likely she did not know she had it. Don't forget, she was the victim of it too. I really do not like your accusatory tone tbh.

[@bellyarty]

​@@davinasquirrel7672she chose to marry in a state which didn't require a blood test. Therefore she did know.

[@amberthomson7847]

Thanks Dr Grande for such a great channel!! It’s so hard to find channels that gives scientific references that actually supports what’s in the video. Not to mention your enjoyable sense of humour.

[@mouseketeery]

Amazing that it never occurred to him to sell that massive house of his if he was struggling financially.

[@arleneshanley9889]

He probably thought it would take too long. Also, he was "embarrassed" about his image.

[@bcvids9]

I doubt his wife would have allowed it

[@polarbearsrus6980]

I heard a few years back that the windows alone in that house were extremely valuable.

[@bcvids9]

@@polarbearsrus6980 it was an original Tiffany stained glass partition at the top of one of the doorways I think. Worth tens of thousands of dollars

[@clairenollet2389]

@@bcvids9 I've heard it was a Tiffany chandelier. Worth enough money to clear his debts, either way. He didn't recognize the value enough to sell it.

[@pikopaki]

Your videos, analysis and soft spoken humor are amazing, you've been an amazing help to my true crime podcast while learning so many things in the same time. Thank you, greetings from Athens, Greece.

[@autumnedwards4448]

I have watched several shows about this case but this is by far the best analysis I've ever seen. Love your channel Dr Grande!💙💙

[@pyt72206]

Daily routine: work. Workout. Shower while listening to Dr. Grande. Thank you for the consistency😀

[@ultimatelyisaac]

By the way, genuine question, surely if she had syphilis (heck of a secret to keep from your future husband), would she not have infected him and what about their children? Bearing in mind that syphilis causes insanity if not cured, would he not have had a shot at an insanity plea?

[@filipefigueiredo9847]

Yeah was wondering about that as well I doubt that the syphilis thing was just a minor detail; it must have played a major role in story, but for some reason it was just casually mentioned "by the way, I have syphilis" "fair enough honey, I'll have a beer then Something doesn't add up

[@mrooz9065]

Syphilis is contagious during primary and secondary stages and sometimes in early latent stage where the patient does not have symptoms hence latent. The latent stage may last for years asymptomatically or eventually progress to tertiary syphilis, which Helen developed.

[@Hannah-zw9ow]

STIs aren’t inherently contagious, like most people believe. Whether or not you catch it from someone else depends on a lot of things, including whether or not they’re contagious at the time of contact and how receptive your body is to the actual infection. So, syphilis is not always contagious, and not everyone exposed will inherently contract it. It’s also very easy to prevent STIs from being transmitted to children. The mother simply gets thoroughly screened for symptoms and/or sores before labor, and if there’s a possibility she’s contagious she’ll deliver by C-Section. Generally, especially now, STIs are at most a nuisance. They’re all either curable or extremely treatable, and it’s very easy to protect partners and unborn children if you know what to look for.

[@2manybooks2littletime25]

The other side of the coin is that syphilis can cause birth defects.

[@bec7357]

@@Hannah-zw9ow resistance is growing in some STI’s the same as non-STI organisms. It is likely they will be without treatment options in the not too distant future, unfortunately.

[@RJ-hx5nb]

Odd but true: Robert Blake (Our Gang and Beretta) was the main character in the movie, "The John List story".......was later in real life put on trial for murder of his wife Bonnie----however was acquitted.

[@h.borter5367]

Yes. Very weird.

[@feedthefatrabbit1073]

Life imitates art

[@marshaboody9069]

He killed her.

[@davinasquirrel7672]

I had not realised Blake had played that role. But yes, I too am convinced Blake killed his wife.

[@Ni-gh9ln]

Me, diagnosed with OCPD: *cleaning my house with dr Grande on shuffle, in an attempt to clear my space and head before I can finally sit down and study, or so I promised myself* Dr Grande: “people with OCPD are often perfectionistic, so they may seem productive, but often times they’re not” I honestly feel so attacked right now 🤡

[@BobTheSchipperke]

I used to do all laundry and dishes before doing class work as I’d rather do the dishes than class work. 🤭

[@prettybullet7728]

I have bipolar disorder and during a period of mania, I always feel like I'm getting so much accomplished when in reality I haven't done anything except make a bigger mess.

[@mcd5478]

🤣😂 “Midlife crisis...rarely leads to murder but often leads to buying a corvette” 😂🤣 This gets on my Top 5 Dr. Grande Quotes list.

[@blairpenney7967]

Interesting study of a particularly cold murderer.. It's a troubling case when you consider his cavalier attitude about it. The artist & profiler did amazing work on the age enhanced model, exact right down to the correct style eyeglasses.

[@gingermcmahon3479]

dr. grande i love your channel! your calm tone is very soothing. i feel simultaneously educated and comforted when i watch your videos. thank you for what you do and for helping remove the stigma behind mental health. you’re great!

[@h.borter5367]

Dr. Grande, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the following: Beau Bergdahl Martin Sckreli Billy Meier Nancy Grace Teddy Roosevelt Abraham Lincoln 💜💜 Great content as usual. Have a lovely day.

[@woadxqueen666]

This is my favorite episode of forensic files I’m so excited to hear you talk about it

[@monilangeKootenays]

"Mid-life crisis often leads to buying a Corvette. " Good one! 😂

[@SleimanSam]

Love the channel Doc 🤗😊 Would love to see a video on: Drum Roll Chris Benoit Tony Soprano Budd Dwyer L.Ron Hubbard

[@Alumnia91]

Omg Tony Soprano and Hubbard yes please

[@fallyneprinciotta9058]

Yes sam!!! Keep it going!!!!

[@SleimanSam]

@@fallyneprinciotta9058 😉

[@franmellor9843]

LOL

[@bobdpa]

These daily videos are perfect for my ride home. Thanks!

[@lightseeker134]

Honestly, if not for your brilliant sense of humour and soothing voice I wouldn't have been able to watch this until the end. An unimaginable crime that was beyond chilling and absolutely horrifying on every level.

[@patsmith9284]

So difficult to understand his logic. I am so sad for the family he murdered. I believe in redemption but I have my doubts about him. Thank you for this explanation.

[@Tom2404]

7:11 that one made me laught so hard because my dad wanted to buy a Corvette C3 when he was in his early 40s but they were too expensive so he bought a second generation Camaro instead.

[@Firebrand1967]

Good for him. 👍🏻

[@browniehendricks3726]

I had asked for this case so thank you very much. You are my favorite when you speculate about motive and you nailed these theories. You are the bomb. Keep up the terrific work. Take care.

[@marthasalter405]

I've heard of this case several times but never knew his wife had syphilis and apparently alcohol dependence.

[@billhildebrand5053]

martha salter *ODE TO JOHN E. LIST* He's making a *list* And checking it twice. If they go to heaven They won't remain in vice. John E List is coming to town. He knows is first names victim Her name is Helen List If she don't make it to heaven, She would never have been kissed. His mother next was 84 She was in the attic, he pulled her down one floor. Patty, Frederic and John all followed They were victims of his OCPD chowder. The Most Wanted he made the LIST His name was surely not John List He called himself Robert P. Clark He thought his plan would fool a Lark. But soon enough, in eighty nine Working on the assembly line Of lines of debits, credits, yes of lists Which were to serve to hide the mist Of unaccounted wrongs and murders done Of which he said "It was pure fun" A likeness made by artist trade That well resembled his last name. A TV show that showed the task He soon was apprehended, at last. Oh may that sound a clever tale Not all crimes remain but fail To take account of every detail It seemed to much to keep a secret. The wires ran fast, the looks came hard It was not long before remark Of neighbours destined to fight They brought his crimes to pure daylight. Oh may your sins they find you out Whether by priest, by man, by route It will not pay to keep them hidden A lock down cell will be thee bidden. A plea of innocence cannot carry A jury trial instead will harry Thee to the fate that only waits thee Even though it eighteen years tarry. Oh whether thy name be John or Robert It matters not, for thee to clobber Thy sins they find thee out they may, O please do not wait for Judgment day. This tale I composed in but short order, It's meant to show you can't work short order. Nor for a company named HR Block You ain't founded on the Rock!! Religion sure can give you security It can never guarantee immunity. A book of LISTS done right, not wrong Won't let you sing the Redemption Song. Don't know, dear John if you made the list Of Redemptions saved, or are you missed. Making tough rules on your kids Don't make them better the do's and dids. Redemptions story only found In grace alone and nothing added. You cannot work to make things better Your only adding to the matter. So let the story now be told This is the end of fables bold, That sending all your kids to heaven Won't redeem their souls or make them better. *RIP* poor children Your father did his duty He knows not what he sorely missed. The day he gave his final kiss (of death).

[@india1422]

I can’t think of many worse things to have. Tertiary syphillis, the end stage, is horrific

[@briancrawford8751]

@@billhildebrand5053 Did you write this? There are a lot of errors, and it doesn't seem to follow a consistent rhyme scheme or meter.

[@billhildebrand5053]

Brian Crawford it took me a short time to write, it was more just synopsis. Thanks for your admonition. I’m not a perfectionist. 😄

[@veltonmeade1057]

And Syphilis is treated with penicillin, why didn't she get the treatment?

[@manojchahal4546]

Amazing as always Mr Grande....i really cannot wait till you go on the Joe Rogan Experience, like when Dr Phil went on it was super stuff....you will be truly amazing...love your insight into all the mental health concerns and issues...

[@georgesehy8058]

Thanks Dr. Grande for such a thorough analysis. My one thought was that Mr. List worked in a lab in the military and did not use this information to help him end the lives of his family. Perhaps being one-sided was what brought him down in the end. Thanks again Dr. Grande

[@CassandraWood0177]

Dr. Grande I just let your video play one after the other. Your voice is very reassuring and informative

[@pepe6666]

there is a BRILLIANRT episode of the forensic files which goes into how the clay sculpture was made. it was absolutely mind-blowing. the detailed and thoughtful work that went into deciding how the future list would look was nothing short of brilliant.

[@southernlight6]

Very interesting. I grew up right near Westfield and this case was spoken of all the time. There were 2 large homes in Westfield with odd stories to them. The other was the Westfield Watcher , a very creepy story that I understand Netflix recently bought the rights to.

[@garytrue440]

Great job dr grande, you filled in the blanks, making this story feel new again.

[@jamiehoover9348]

Cannot wait to hear your analysis on R Budd Dwyer when you get to it. That's is a crazy fascinating case from the 80s....

[@Marie-cq7eq]

Great video, as usual! Just what I needed at the end of a long day.

[@merediths2cents]

I remember America’s most wanted showing his story and the bust of what he may look like today (back then when they were searching for him)

[@halfrutter2226]

I’ve often thought of this case and how it compared to other family murders. Thanks for lending your knowledge and opinion! 👍

[@JennWatson]

I feel safe and calm when I hear your voice

[@edwardpeterson1634]

The John List case was the first case I saw on America's Most Wanted. It got me hooked on these true crime shows.

[@mollymollie6048]

Thank you, Dr. Grande, this case has always fascinated me...you did a great job with your analysis. I remember watching that America’s Most Wanted show, and seeing Forensic Files later that detailed how the man who did the clay sculptures of criminals, and how he worked...fascinating. One fact you brought to life that I didn’t know what that his wife had syphallis...I didn’t know that. This has always been a fascinating, and incredibly sad case. OCPD is not an excuse for murder...maybe to help in understanding why he did what he did...but considering that he left a confession letter...ummm. You goin’ to jail. Again, thank you for your intelligent insight into this, a case that has always interested me.

[@mrooz9065]

He made a "List" of excuses in that confession.

[@balcon983]

I recall when AMW aired this open case. Then they he was caught ! Also aired on AMW ! That was amazing. Good one Dr. G @

[@danieladeutsch1708]

A very good point with the photographs, doctor. We have to look as some things from the perspective of the period when it happened, not from the view of 2020. Thank you!

[@gracec6485]

I remember watching the John List case on America’s most wanted and it horrified me that he could do that to his family and his own Mother. I always wondered why. It shocks me that he wasn’t angry when he did this but justified this with religion and felt he did a good thing for them. The other cases that are similar is the Brad Bishop case, he’s yet to be caught and also Robert Fisher who is from my own home state. They both killed their families too and are still on the run.

[@NicoleJacksonnoj100]

I first found out about this case from watching the 1987 film called The Stepfather starring Terry O'Quinn. This was an interesting case indeed.

[@CNoble-md7ro]

Thank you for being a consistent source of educational entertainment in the age of Covid-19. I really enjoy your videos. Thank you. 💜🙏🏾

[@cottontails9003]

Dr Grande loved your analysis of this man though your statement "mid life crisis just buy a corvette"had me laughing so much. Thank you Dr Grande you really are the greatest channel on you tube keep them coming you are the best!

[@pippadot679]

I’m so glad you did John List story. Some people may forget or not know who this nut case is. Thank you. He had all this so planned out and the notes and letters he wrote to school and his pastor. All thought out. Crazy how the bust was done on America’s Most Wanted and they caught him after years.

[@kimmyfreak200]

incredible work america's most wanted did... that face they made matched list like 99.9%... very nice work

[@eileenlorenz4468]

I love how Dr Grande makes buying a Corvette by a middle-aged man sound like a positive thing. 🤗. Looking forward to the "I'm not diagnosing "merch. Please consider doing a piece on Joel Guy jr.

[@ssssssstssssssss]

Interesting story... I’d really like to hear about Chris Benoit someday.

[@cheristephens8675]

Of all the serial killers I used to teach my forensics students about,, List is the one who creeped me out the most. HIs interview with Connie Chung was just chilling in his coldness and absence of emotion. After studying about List and Ed Gein, both Lutherans, I began to wonder if their reliogious background had any influence on their crimes. I still wonder.

[@janiesigmon5104]

BTK was also Lutheran!

[@aheimdahl5201]

@@janiesigmon5104 Wow! I had no idea 😲

[@cheristephens8675]

@Boondoggle I understand, but it was in my Profiling unit and I was able to make that distinction as we disussed his case.

[@hugomikaelsson4055]

I am Lutheran and haven't killed anyone.

[@bitchface235]

@@hugomikaelsson4055 did you try killing

[@ashleyseven2323]

I love both cases- Cooper and List- but had never heard of the theory about List being Cooper before. I agree with you that List couldn't have been Cooper.

[@emjones7698]

Love your dry-wit delivery!

[@axellawlite4191]

Would you do a video on John Mcafee? I think that would be interesting

[@kagey03]

Dr Grande has the best channel on KZbin.

[@knitter4years]

Please analyze John Jamelke. Your insights and commentary are always spot on.

[@EricPetersen2922]

All the “firearm & ammunition” jargon is a clear sign Dr. Grande has spent a lot of quality time around shooting sports.

[@lynncrf]

Doesn't he mention his love of guns on Patreon?

[@bbomg02]

Finally one I wasn't fully aware of. I find OCPD very interesting as a person with obsessive compulsive traits. I always struggled to describe the differences, but this makes it way more clear for me. Where OCD is more intrusive thoughts and such. OCPD is more about controlling as much of your life as you can. I can definitely see how that can get fatal. Especially if untreated. If you hold people to your high standards. They are bound to mess up at some point. Ik with me even if I don't have OCPD, if I smell say a bit of my lunch or something on my hands and it bugs me, I will wash my hands until the smell is gone. Or if I hate a noise, it will sometimes get too much. I can only imagine if it's that invasive in your life and personality.

[@india1422]

I have issues with intrusive thoughts, which I think in its extreme is sometimes called “ pure O”. Why can’t The intrusive thoughts be about kittens and unicorns?

[@jelkel25]

Very interesting. You do have to wonder how List got through two wars with his condition unless he was a desk jockey or if he developed his issues during these times.

[@thereal4113]

As always I am in awe of your analysis being so detailed. On a side note, getting a Corvette during a mid life crisis is very 1980ish. I would go with a Mercedes convertible.

[@leslie3933]

Yay! I had been asking for this one. Thanks Dr. Grande!

[@jameswaysayquom9237]

Great episode tonight!! I had forgotten about this guy. I liked your analysis.

[@jimdouglasmorrison5972]

Hi,dr. Grande! Nice video as always. I think that it would be interesting if you did analysis of Allan Watts.

[@rachels7524]

I just want to say thank you for doing this analysis on John List! I was hoping you would. You didn't disappoint, of course. Learned a couple things I didn't know about this case. Plus, I got a good laugh out of that corvette statement. Appreciate you and how you take the time to listen to your viewers and read alot of the comments you get. Until next video, cheers! 😊

[@christinley5213]

That was an interesting case for sure..I realy enjoy when u break down the analysis in to fine detail like that..talking in depth about the facets..realy helps teach me:)

[@lindadegraaf9297]

Thanks for covering my request of John List, Dr Grande!

[@tiggy4750]

Why do you think it was YOUR request that caused Dr. Grande to make this video. Many people requested he do a video on the List family murders.

[@LaMaestra2102]

He never got the Corvette. 😂 He lived about 5 miles from me when they busted him. I just thought he was another narcissistic a**hole who felt he was entitled to a do over. I appreciate this different viewpoint, but I still think that his problem was his belief that he was just too good for all of that. He was an only child. They're often doted on and taught that they're more special. Thanks Dr.G.

[@2degucitas]

Entitled to a do-over, due to his making a mess of his wife's life. Gave her untreatable syphilis. Makes me wonder if the kids got it from mom.

[@LaMaestra2102]

@@2degucitas Oh! I thought she had syphilis from her first husband and tricked List by not telling him. Well, that's a game changer. It is surprising that it wasn't passed onto the kids.

[@Hannah-zw9ow]

Poppy Fields it’s not surprising at all. It’s extremely easy to protect unborn children from STIs because they aren’t transmitted through blood. Syphilis and herpes specifically are only contracted through contact with the affected area or with open sores. A pregnant woman with an STI will be screened before giving birth, and if she may be contagious will get a C-Section. Generally, and especially now, STIs are at most a nuisance. They’re all either curable or extremely treatable. The main issue is the stigmas and lack of knowledge surrounding them, not the infections themselves.

[@billhildebrand5053]

Poppy Fields *ODE TO JOHN E. LIST* He's making a *list* And checking it twice. If they go to heaven They won't remain in vice. John E List is coming to town. He knows is first names victim Her name is Helen List If she don't make it to heaven, She would never have been kissed. His mother next was 84 She was in the attic, he pulled her down one floor. Patty, Frederic and John all followed They were victims of his OCPD chowder. The Most Wanted he made the LIST His name was surely not John List He called himself Robert P. Clark He thought his plan would fool a Lark. But soon enough, in eighty nine Working on the assembly line Of lines of debits, credits, yes of lists Which were to serve to hide the mist Of unaccounted wrongs and murders done Of which he said "It was pure fun" A likeness made by artist trade That well resembled his last name. A TV show that showed the task He soon was apprehended, at last. Oh may that sound a clever tale Not all crimes remain but fail To take account of every detail It seemed to much to keep a secret. The wires ran fast, the looks came hard It was not long before remark Of neighbours destined to fight They brought his crimes to pure daylight. Oh may your sins they find you out Whether by priest, by man, by route It will not pay to keep them hidden A lock down cell will be thee bidden. A plea of innocence cannot carry A jury trial instead will harry Thee to the fate that only waits thee Even though it eighteen years tarry. Oh whether thy name be John or Robert It matters not, for thee to clobber Thy sins they find thee out they may, O please do not wait for Judgment day. This tale I composed in but short order, It's meant to show you can't work short order. Nor for a company named HR Block You ain't founded on the Rock!! Religion sure can give you security It can never guarantee immunity. A book of LISTS done right, not wrong Won't let you sing the Redemption Song. Don't know, dear John if you made the list Of Redemptions saved, or are you missed. Making tough rules on your kids Don't make them better the do's and dids. Redemptions story only found In grace alone and nothing added. You cannot work to make things better Your only adding to the matter. So let the story now be told This is the end of fables bold, That sending all your kids to heaven Won't redeem their souls or make them better. *RIP* poor children Your father did his duty He knows not what he sorely missed. The day he gave his final kiss (of death).

[@judepower4425]

@@2degucitas She caught syphillis from her FIRST husband, not from list

[@kenchristensen7534]

Someone start the Todd Father for President 2024 super-pac

[@kerichristensen2087]

I thought this was my comment for a second..the n looks like an r i xD

[@pinky567]

Ken Christensen if we hurry really fast maybe we can make it for 2020 election

[@yes0r787]

Let's Make America Grande!

[@hatchok6324]

Favorite person to watch when insomnia hits. And also when it doesn’t, who am I kidding. Thanks for another interesting one

[@b.l.powers4319]

Interesting when auto play switches from what you clicked on, to a case I hadn't heard of, and Dr. Grandes calm voice begans laying out the facts from the mists of time and space, about a man like many, and then as you listen, these unbelievable things are laid out in the time line, from the common place to the horrific.

[@nate_d376]

Wait....why is there a Corvette in my driveway? Damn it....

[@scorpion-fs7pg]

Holy cow, as much as I've watched on this you had so much more information here. Everyone can only be pushed so far and who knows what our breaking point is.

[@hannahriley8085]

I am absolutely obsessed with watching your videos! I could do with you analysing me!

[@cindyrhodes]

Excellent summary and speculations, as always! I love my "Dr. Grande time" on KZbin!

[@kkheflin3]

Oh Dr. G....."A midlife crisis is not a diagnosis. It rarely leads to murder but it does lead to buying a Corvette." Tragic horrific case but I laughed for ten minutes at least. Priceless. Absolutely priceless.

[@kayhoover6530]

Oh, did the good Doctor give us a glimpse of an item on his bucket list with the mention of a corvette? 😉👍

[@cheristephens8675]

No. If she caught it from her first husband in the mid 40's, by the time she married List she would have been in secondary or maybe tertiary phase and unlikely to have been able to infect anyone (other than her babies prenatally). Penicillin was the treatment of choice, but although it didn't cure her infection (o doubt reduced bacterial load for a while) plus her stage of infection she was unlikely to be contagious. Additionally, if List had been treated with penicillin for another reason it would have likely cured him without his knowing he was infected. I was a VD Investigator for a public health clinic when younger and saw many cases.

[@kayhoover6530]

@@cheristephens8675 I see you totally misunderstood my comment, but that is okay because your reply is interesting.

[@thors1fan140]

I don’t peg him as a Corvette driving middle-aged man, more like the owner of a solar-powered car.🤔

[@joannivaldi2106]

This was very interesting. Please do Jeffrey MacDonald.

[@megalopolis2015]

John List lived up to his name. His life was spelled out for him. Thanks again for a thorough assessment.

[@dianayount2122]

Interesting review. I had a hard time conceptualizing the personality disorder. Saw him as spoiled only child still trying to impress his mother. Regarding the STD, thought syphilis could be passed from mother to their unborn children resulting in congenital syphilis. Yet the children did not seem to have been effected. And it's not reported John List contracted syphilis himself the minimal the 3 times he had "marital" relations with his wife (resulting in the pregnancies)? Obviously I don't understand enough about this horrible disease.. He might have been able to justify his crime within his strict Lutheran upbringing. Having faith and asking for forgiveness are key to salvation within that faith. Though sincere regret is likely needed. The other person that escaped the madness besides his mother in law was his stepdaughter. Reportedly, she had married and moved away. Hope she has had some sort of "normal" life.

[@PendalMarks]

Thanks for this video. I have long been intrigued and disturbed by this man.

[@anitar2928]

Dr Grande, can you please analyze the case of Joel Guy Jr? Very sad and horrific case. Would like some insight on this individual, his rage towards 2 parents that gave him everything. Greed and money are obviously the motives involved, but I’m having a hard time understanding why he killed them in such a vicious way. Thank you.

[@leoslick]

People that thumbs down these videos aren't sure how to watch an educated or intellectual content. I welcome this compared to the other crap on youtube

[@clascaulfieldjr3653]

Hi Dr. Maybe you can discuss the overlap between OCPD and ASD? Or perhaps you have in a previous video.

[@pinkymii072]

he probably doesn't care, as long as he can keep diagnosing evil people with them without actually seeing what mentally ill people go through seriously, this guy probably just watched an old horror film and decided from there he had all the knowledge he needed about mentally ill folks

[@lifespanwellnessbeauty-60i64]

I appreciated the breakdown of the OCPD symptoms as reflected in the murderer's personality.

[@shombie2737]

You presented some important details that I'd never learned before, like Mrs. List's syphilis. I'd wondered why her eyes seemed "off" in their family portrait.

[@clairenollet2389]

Tragically, there was a Tiffany chandelier in the ballroom where he laid out his poor family. Had he recognized the value of it, he could have sold it and cleared all his debts.

[@sandras1212]

I remember them talking about that chandelier. It was apparently worth a mint. I hope some extended family member got it.

[@clairenollet2389]

@@sandras1212 Nope. A few months after the murders were discovered, an arsonist torched the house, chandelier and all.

[@sandras1212]

@@clairenollet2389 Terrible!!! The tiffany ceiling was absolutely beautiful.

[@Elleffe]

Yayyyyy another great video! Thank you Dr. Grande!!!

[@KoreaMojo]

So glad to see a professional I trust that also will not grade me give input!!

[@thattimestampguy]

0:23 Background of John List Dec 1, 1951 - Marries in Maryland, Moves to California shortly after 2:20 A 19-room - Victorian Mansion 2:51 November 9, 1971 4:55 The Investigation Michigan -> Colorado “Robert Clarke” meets Deloris Miller 5:46 May 1989, America’s Most Wanted Bust June 1 -> Richmond Virginia arrest 6:19 His Trial Testimony 6:54 Mental Health and Personality OCPD (Not OCD) Cluster C - “Anxious and Fearful” • Detailed, Organization, Schedules • Perfectionism • Excessive Devotion to work • Can’t throw out worn out objects • Miserly Spending Style (he bought a 19-room mansion 🤨) • Need to control other people 10:23 5-Page note 📝 It’s wrong, but he felt he had reason to kill Not enough money 💵 Welfare is unacceptable to him Helen was not going to church 12:15 Helen’s mother Like a Mystical Delusion “He was good at getting jobs, just not good at keeping them” 13:35 Cold 14:34 D.B. Dan Cooper Case Dr Grande believes Dan Cooper was not John List using another alias

[@franmellor9843]

THANKYOU

[@polarbearsrus6980]

Another oldie and very interesting. As an aside, I understand the windows in the mansion would be extremely valuable today. Kudos to America's Most Wanted and John Walsh. We may need a new show, America's Most Wanted Domestic Terrorists, sad but true. Please do an analysis of these hate groups and the Adam Walsh case. (I remember where I was when they found Adam, it was so gut wrenching.)

[@marielleo4715]

One of the most interesting case and I wonder that not so many subscribers!