Kathleen Folbigg | Is Australia's Most Notorious Female Serial Killer Innocent?

This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Kathleen Folbigg? Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: / drgrande
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[@lindalumae]

I don’t keep diaries. I thought about how my children and others might perceive my deepest thoughts and feelings after I was gone and decided it was not a good idea. Reading and interpreting something that was never intended to be understood by anyone except the writer is a very bad idea.

[@gigi9301]

I agree! I kept writings and musings at times, then went back and read them, and shredded it all. It only relayed raw emotion, not the entire picture of the situation. If my son or family members ever saw the content, they would certainly be saddened, or at least disappointed.

[@lciav]

If one wanted to keep a journal without fear that someone would read it after death, couldn't they put it in their will to destroy all their journals without reading them?

[@abelis644]

Agreed!!!

[@abelis644]

@@lciav In a perfect world that might be fine. But people do not always listen to people's wishes. So I would say if you don't want anyone reading your deepest thoughts, don't write them down. You can always keep a "light" diary where you describe what you've done that day. I personally wouldn't even trust even the person charged with destroying the diaries not to read them!!! We're human and nosy...

[@lciav]

@@abelis644 Someone could regularly destroy their journals. Heck, you could journal each day and burn what you wrote immediately after. In fact, that sounds freeing.

[@TheCoca84]

I couldn’t if I was the husband. After the second child dying, I’d be like no, I can’t keep having kids. My heart would be completely broken.

[@Griselda_Puppy]

*I know, me too! I'd seriously have to start looking at adoption at that point because having more would be too heartbreaking!*

[@zoeolsson5683]

I think this is one of the biggest tells in why she's not guilty. He would have got the hint something was going on.

[@BL-hw4mn]

@@zoeolsson5683 Plus if you hated them enough to kill them, why would you keep getting pregnant?

[@tarrenhunt]

@@zoeolsson5683 Interesting that she didn’t have him up as an alternative theory as it would have helped her case. I think she is empathic but with her trauma it presents unusually.

[@tarrenhunt]

Re the husband - highly recommend a series The Cry (2018).

[@archaeologydad3761]

whoever thinks she's Australia's worst female serial killer clearly hasn't heard of David and Catherine Birnie

[@PetroicaRodinogaster264]

I agree. I don't even think she is guilty let alone the worst killer.

[@ligayalacdao6580]

@@PetroicaRodinogaster264 Science has backed up her innocence.

[@olivegrove2615]

it's the media, I don't know any Aussie's that would call her a killer.

[@nathrogers7]

@@olivegrove2615 I call her a killer.

[@bgreen7286]

There was also a case of an Australian couple who lived on a farm with 4 children who all drowned in a dam on the property.They subsequently had another 4 children who also drowned in the dam.They were be never charged with anything!

[@jackiegrice714]

Interesting-I usually listen through earphones because if my cat hears somebody talking out of my iPhone’s speakers, she goes nuts and attacks the phone. I forgot tonight and just played this video out loud-and she laid there on her bed just as calm as could be. Apparently, my cat thinks Dr. Grande’s voice is soothing too. 😄

[@seltzertime2809]

The video-structure outline at the beginning of Dr. Grande’s videos is very calming. Like, yes, thank you, we need structure in our lives rn.

[@adelinediallo7775]

so true. i´m at a point where this consistency keeps me sane o.o

[@camerynr8344]

i say the intro with him every time, it’s the only thing keeping me sane😭

[@allinaday9882]

@@camerynr8344 n

[@jalasword]

The average woman tends to blame herself, when something happens to our children. So, that could explain the diary entries.

[@MegaTinni]

nope, not those entries

[@garmtpug]

I didn't see any blame of oneself in her entries.

[@CyberChrist]

From my experience, women tend to shift blame all they can, for example, they're _NEVER_ guilty of choosing bad men _and_ staying with them even when they beat them.

[@leejay1936]

@@CyberChrist women aren't guilty for men's actions FFS.

[@cottontails9003]

As a registered nurse I've seen the worst of what these so -called parents can do too their babies and children.

[@katyr2382]

The two lil cacti look like they're considering leaping off the table

[@patriciaque197]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@lanamontana1669]

Dr Grande has to use his soothing voice to talk them off the ledge everyday

[@claudiamiller7730]

They do look awfully close to the edge.......

[@mariee.5912]

@@claudiamiller7730 it worries me.

[@patriciaque197]

@@lanamontana1669 😂😂😂😂😂☘

[@michelinegosselin3879]

"Court is guilty of murdering logic." - Dr. Grande 2021 Best. Line. Ever lol

[@yusefendure]

Absolutely agree. I was just about to comment on it, but you beat me to it. Fascinating video by a top-notch doctor.

[@chriss3154]

When will Dr. Grande's quotes turn into trading cards? I really want to collect them

[@michelinegosselin3879]

@@chriss3154 that is an amazing idea! I would collect them too

[@uRidaKaci_oui]

👍🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@doctorajaguar]

I find weird that after the second child's death, doctors didnt performed an autopsy and made genetic tests to study what was wrong with the baby.

[@tarrenhunt]

It was natural causes and some time ago. The genome science is new.

[@tye81]

Also the original dr’s who put the babies deaths down as sids changed their testimony at the trial to murder . Unbelievable

[@ralsharp6013]

​@@tarrenhuntdid they consume the babies bodies in order to find out that there was a genetic mutation?

[@kempcky]

That calming, grounded voice discussing murder and horrible acts committed by humans just makes my anxiety and stress melt away. Thank you, Dr Grande.

[@AB-bl1fb]

🤣

[@m.2891]

Same!

[@BurroGirl]

Same here!!

[@anitalassiter4266]

Me too! Can I say that?🥺

[@kempcky]

@@anitalassiter4266 I’m so offended! 🙃

[@ogarzabello]

When medical doctors say SIDS, it really means: We don't know what da'f%&(# happend.

[@cosmic_cosmos1]

Yes

[@annking8633]

Exactly.

[@branden8915]

thank YOU!

[@Griselda_Puppy]

*Right?! Because healthy humans, no matter the age, **_don't_** just stop breathing* 💯

[@zoeolsson5683]

Wow so sorry to hear about your sister and can imagine the stress for your family.

[@shareecoffey]

As an Australian who lived through the media frenzy during this, it reminded me very much of what happened to Lindy Chamberlain...the media (and public) deemed that their emotional response was not 'right'. But, everyone is different and no one knows how they would react in such horrific situations.

[@buttercxpdraws8101]

The ready willingness of Australian courts to persecute women and mothers in cases like Lindy and Kathleen is a terrible indictment on the misogyny that runs deep within our culture.

[@dyamano]

Sharee Coffey ~ Do u know about the case of the couple whose little child was taken by a dingo? They were a accused of killing the baby , but if I remember correctly it did come to light years after that it was a dingo. I think that’s how it went. 😳🤭😬

[@welcometoparadise8737]

@@dyamano that WAS Lindy Chamberlain...

[@jonathangriffiths2499]

Remember the Joanna Lees case as well . She apparently did nt react the “ correct “ way as well

[@reneemoorephoto77]

@@dyamano of course she would know ha Not one of us Australians wouldn't know about Lindy Chamberlain...

[@lindsayantwine1097]

Imagine having all these feelings about having kids and yet you keep... having kids.

[@angieo3214]

🙌

[@MichieHoward]

Exactly! Thank you!

[@vihaze6725]

It sounds like post-partum depression, which is normal, even for people who want kids.

[@cutienerdgirl]

It sounds like she was grieving and badly wanted biological kids.

[@triggerme2818]

If all of us could suddenly perceive all of the suffering that was going on this world, none of us would go on to procreate.

[@peterlawrence6815]

A grieving mother would not write negative things about their children in a diary. Quilty

[@amandacharlebois9295]

The amount of things I’ve written in my journal that were NOT meant to be taken literally.... Feelings towards myself, feelings towards others, feelings in general, anger and hate and resentment.... damn am I lucky no one is going through then with a fine tooth comb. We very rarely mean our worst thoughts and emotions and feelings literally. It’s horrifying to imagine anyone taking it as such. It’s just an outlet. That is all.

[@mikestarkly9226]

lol Not like that though. Sadly she did have a rough life but many times these childhood experiences are common in people with cluster-B personalities especially when there isn't proper mental intervention early on. She seems to be a psychopath or sociopath which are infamous for manipulating people (including seasoned clinical and forensic psychologists). I've purposely kept my darkest thoughts out of diaries, or at least destroyed them. I think mostly cluster-B would think to do this and not worry about getting caught for something. Or someone really really naïve. But I don't see it getting to that point that way after losing a child. It would be more like "I wanted them to shut up then they did and I hate that I'll never be able to hear them again, I miss them, " etc.......Heck even saying you feel guilty which she didn't say. SADLY the system if f****ed in that way.....if you feel guilty you're less likely I thin kto have done it in this circumstance. Psychopaths and sociopaths don't feel guilt (or not often) they feel sad they didn't get away with something..

[@scootermom1791]

So true! It's just a way to vent those feelings instead of telling the person you're angry with all of the mean things you'd like to say to them at that moment. Obviously, after cooling down, most people don't feel the same way that they did at the time.

[@AliceRinGameLand]

Agreed

[@AliceRinGameLand]

@@mikestarkly9226 sorry but no. You and the deceives were and still are wrong. There cases all over the place that shows her kids had the same disease they did. They came with evidence proving that she and her kids had it and the judges and detectives wanted to save face and refused to accept the evidence. Guess what scientists are still trying to get her out. And if you believe the government or authority of any kind wouldn't cover their asses then you are wrong. Around the time of her case they had many Corrupt officials

[@Teresa-qq2qp]

Throw your dairy away. Better, burn it!

[@smithpatricemary]

Thanks for covering this particular case Dr. Grande. I always felt that this woman was innocent, and the fact that now 90 Scientists are requesting her freedom based on Scientific evidence,backs up my original gut instinct I think/ maybe... Here in Australia ( as shown with Lindy Chambelin's original conviction), the press and some of the public can have quite a prejudicial affect on the outcome of such harrowing cases. Good Summation.

[@sherberts]

Scientists all used to believe in lobodomies also

[@davealaya]

Dr Grande did not diagnose that his vocal EQ needed more bass, he only speculated as to what could be going on with an EQ mix like this.

[@alimar0604]

He has a beautiful gentle voice 🇬🇧

[@jalasword]

😆😆😆

[@nigelcarren]

I hope you are not suggesting there was sibilance but only speculating as to the surplus of soothing esses. 😊

[@MatthewStout]

Lol came here to genuinely say the low end was a bit hot, but I found this.

[@masterblaster5705]

I'm not not diagnosing the cause of my unemployment, I'm only speculating as to what could be going on in a country like this.

[@CanadianMum444]

Breaks my heart. I don’t know if she’s guilty either, but in my bereaved mother’s heart, I’m thinking maybe not. In my experience, the guilt I felt after loosing my twins daughters in the neonatal period, from a known serious problem, and the subsequent suicide of my 19 yr old daughter 2 decades later, if someone ever read my diary, with how hard I’ve been on myself, they’d put my away too if they just went by that info perhaps as well...even though in my right mind I know I had absolutely nothing to do with the circumstances what so ever.💔 I’ve met other parents over these years who had lost more than one child, for numerous reasons. So with the genetic findings I believe in my heart she likely should be pardoned. Some of us mothers who end up being diagnosed with ppd too late, can write seriously terrible feelings down about ourselves on paper. I think if her husband maybe had not insisted on giving it to authorities, this woman would if not guilty, be at least able to grieve safely if she were acquitted, but just pardoned, I’m not certain of it’s the same thing. Ugh. This is why I don’t do these videos. They’d be way too long and so full of confusion and I’d have a hard time with my opinions on some of the ones Dr. G. Has done ✔️ . Incredible composure and communication skills you have💜 I think she’s suffered enough. But it’s not for me to decide.

[@zoeolsson5683]

Sorry for your loss. Very heavy road for you.

[@HeatherHolt]

Oh my goodness I am so so sorry for your losses. I can’t imagine the emotional burden of all of that. I hope you have lots of great memories of your daughter to keep in your heart 💔

[@aalm7966]

And the husband would not give a DNA sample to assist in deciphering the truth about the babies' health. They were able to find out that one of the genetic defects was both PATERNAL and maternal in spit of that.

[@CanadianMum444]

@@aalm7966 thanks for this info💜

[@CanadianMum444]

@@zoeolsson5683 thank you so much for your very kind note!💜 I’ve not loved the easiest road for certain but it’s mine and I’m thankful for every good part even if short or quick💕

[@laurenjeangreenbean6301]

Its always nicer to see the brick work, plants, and your expressive hand gestures, Dr G! fascinating topic, I'd heard there were rumblings of innocence from our favorite show 60 mins Australia 🇦🇺 ❤

[@anitalassiter4266]

But his beautiful face is farther away!

[@laurenjeangreenbean6301]

@@anitalassiter4266 I hear you, it's a cruel dichotomy, lol but also kinda feels like therapeutic environment 😄 😉

[@gthktty666]

UPDATE: SHE'S OUT! She has now been released from prison, 20 years after being convicted, after being pardoned by the NSW Attorney General. Folbigg received an unconditional pardon, her conviction is not quashed and she has not yet been formally exonerated.

[@markmilan8365]

Thank you for the update!

[@FrankBenlin]

It makes me sad that there is such a wealth of subject matter for Dr. Grande to analyze.

[@angelahamon6730]

But it makes people happy that there are thoughtful people like you and some of the other viewers.

[@justinlegercomedy1743]

I worry the quality will decline if he continues to release content this frequently I'd hate to see the passion he has for this to fade with the quality of content.

[@elizabethlee-hodson6120]

I love how Dr Grande subtly throws in periodic Armie Hammer digs. Cracks me up every time.

[@user-sr1kc6jj2b-p1q]

Thank you for another Australian case, Dr Grande! Guilt is one of the big emotions that people experience after the death of someone close, infant children included. People want explanations for deaths and they're often experiencing other strong emotions like paranoia, anger and despair. The diary entries sounded to me like the sort of suspicion that people feel about others when they grieve, but she had turned it inwards. It's not at all unusual. Nor is it unusual to blame the women of the family for deaths in the family. Many cultures do it with, for example, accusations of casting the evil eye.

[@myriamguns2162]

@Anette Mattes Well put. You're so right esp. about this tendency to blame women for the deaths in the family (children's deaths in particular).

[@IDontTalkToCops]

Kathleen has been officially pardoned by the Governor General of Australia and it has been ordered that she be released from prison immediately

[@IDontTalkToCops]

@shawnthesheep9005 thanks :)

[@moonsharn]

Australian here, she’s absolutely innocent. Her 2 daughters had CALM2 arrhythmia and died of cardiac arrest, one of her sons clearly had severe epilepsy, and the other was positive for the same genetic mutation that caused the epilepsy in their family… so most likely also died during a seizure. She grieved considerably after each death, and still grieves today. Australian justice system is hideous to women. Women killers walk free regularly or serve only a couple of years. Women are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and any child death or disappearance, the mother is ALWAYS the first suspect and experiences a witch hunt. We’re famous for prosecuting innocent grieving mothers… and by the way, a dingo really did steal Lindy chamberlain’s daughter. Our justice system is a nightmare.

[@hannahchase3881]

Oh Angie! So so true, I grew up watching the public lynching and trial by media of Lindy, then Joanne Lee's all over again..such double standards here and an inept corrupt system.

[@laylahla5345]

the one son did not have the mutation that caused epilepsy in a mouse. The other one was smothered and had a seizure after that.

[@djg5950]

@@laylahla5345 Provide the link. I've read several versions of this story and have yet to find cause of death to be suffocation for any of them.

[@h0rriphic]

@@laylahla5345 I second Deborah’s comment. Provide some sort of source when you make a claim like that. If you want to be taken seriously, that is.

[@aarondavis8943]

You're so certain that you can't be trusted to make a judgement. And this case is nothing like the Azaria Chamberlain case. I don't believe anyone can know with certainty what happened here, and without understanding the genetic evidence, you're just guessing based on your own biases. Your statements about Australian justice are also incorrect. Most killers receive very long sentences, as they should. Killers of women receive longer sentences than killers of men. It's in the data for all to see.

[@crystalairgood9845]

I'm convinced Dr Grande is running a Pavlov experiment with all of us as his test subjects. I was watching old episodes when he uploaded.

[@j4m32hz6]

Lol

[@user-cs1un6sp1wRennata]

LOL

[@Sky-rs5cc]

@@mrsmacca126 😆

[@KateEleanor]

So funny 😂

[@TheFaro2011]

Where's the bowl of food?!!!

[@uralbob1]

With regard to people who react differently to the death of a child: My mother's twin sister and her husband lost their six year old son a few days after Christmas. He was sledding down a bank on his new sled with other kids of the neighborhood. This bank ran perpendicular to a small river in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and was the popular spot for kids to play. For some reason, as he approached the bottom of the bank, his sled veered sharply to the left and out on to the river. Rivers freeze over up north, but the ice can be very thick in one place, and paper thin or open in others due to water currents. He flipped into the river and went in, while his sled staying on the ice. It took almost a week to find him, as the river had to be dynamited to clear ice for the divers. My Aunt had a terrible breakdown and shuddered every time the dynamite would go off. After he was found, snagged on a submerged branch, she asked the divers if he was still wearing his mittens. She wanted to see his body, but his dad did not. He wanted to remember a happy little boy, while his mom needed to see for herself that he was really gone. This caused a tremendous amount of distress in their relationship, but luckily, it resolved itself over time. Niether parent could understand the need of the other. They were loving parents who both loved their son. They went on eventually to have another boy.

[@robyn2628]

"she asked the divers if he was still wearing his mittens" oh my gosh, that is sad

[@mapleleaf0]

I am very interested in learning about the prosecutors statistical fallacy in an upcoming video. The thing that scares me when people say someone is guilty because "what are the chances that XYZ could happen innocently?" is that while the chances are extremely low (typically for whatever they're referring to), the mere fact that the chances are not 0 means it could happen to someone. And who but the person it happened to would be on trial for that very thing? It doesn't make them innocent, but it doesn't make them guilty either.

[@ruthpearsall2618]

I think the fact that K didn't try to blame her husband(probably in the face of pressure from her defence team) speaks to her innocence. Her diary entries may just show a despondent , confused , poorly educated mother worried that her lack of maternal skill had somehow lead to these deaths. What a life she has endured. Sad, not bad. Sally Clarke's nightmare shows it could happen to anyone even with the right resources, support and education.

[@mattengland653]

Lol if you really believe she didn’t kill those kids the. You should hire her as a babysitter! 😂 she’s a murderer 100%

[@rotemerlich]

Had she tried to implicate her husband, she would have entangled herself in a Web of less she would have been trapped in.

[@louwinters508]

​​​@@rotemerlichdon't know if she's innocent. I've never read these diaries. She's not been found innocent but pardoned. We will never know for sure. But it is very odd how all of them died in her care when no-one else was around. And as infants. The husband believes she did it. And I'm fairly certain she did too. Not 100 percent. Unfortunately there are mother's that do this. There was one that killed 9 of her children. There was one that killed her own kids, others kids and was allowed to carry on unchecked untill someone finally saw her doing it. It's called munchausen by proxy. They get a thrill from gaining attention from it all. And her husband obviously could prove he wasn't there at the times. So how could she possibly implicate him it wouldn't work.I mean come on. That's not indication that she's innocent.

[@relay2169]

@@louwinters508 now she’s innocent and your a poor sucker that believes what they hear on social media and talk using words like “ certain” when u have no clue in the world

[@lannguyen-pu1db]

Most mothers probably feel the same at some times, even if they wouldn't dare to admit it.

[@lee3171]

Nope.

[@blondesense1708]

I see quite a few comment curious about the scientific findings. There’s an ABC special on the case but I think you can only watch in 🇦🇺. Geneticists found the girls carried a mutation known as the CALM2 G114R variant which predisposes one to lethal heart conditions and the boys had a genetic predisposition to early onset, lethal epilepsy. I think her diary entries can also be explained by guilt, feeling perhaps she had willed their deaths into existence in her tired, grief stricken PTSD mind. We can never be certain, she may have murdered her children and they also had these catastrophic diagnoses, but there is certainly a lot of reasonable doubt.

[@ralsharp6013]

Did you say the show that was on Channel 7 last night about the case? Her sons didn't carry that gene variant.. but their daughters did..

[@anniejennings4560]

​@@ralsharp6013her sons had some other disease epilepsy.

[@ralsharp6013]

@@anniejennings4560 yes you are correct and one of the boys had been diagnosed with epilepsy. They wanted the father, Craig, to provide his DNA so they could check for the same mutant gene that the girls had. He refused. He thinks she is guilty of murdering their children, due to what she wrote in her diary, including things like, being her father's daughter😥 and Sarah left with a bit of help. It's certainly been a very sad and confusing case

[@anniejennings4560]

@@ralsharp6013 Kathleen is a woman who not only faced depression due to her parents but her children were about 18-19 months only means there are chances hormones were still making problems in her system. People do many things while hormones go awry. She might have written her dairy in that state. Her husband knows that she's innocent but he is afraid what society would think of him because he had left her alone when she needed help the most and surely society would blame him for that. Well, Kathleen's story does prove one thing that parents, partners, siblings and family may abandon and disappoint a person but friends they are Jewels . If you got a true friend hold on to them . They will trust you and search for you even to the ends of hell. Tracy Chapman saved Kathleen.

[@RockinTheBassGuitar]

As a mother who suffered PPD very badly for 2 years I can say that those diary entries sound a lot like how I talked to myself during those years. I never hurt my kids and would never hurt them; just because she felt that way doesn't mean she hurt her children. It's possible those entries show deepening depression from self blame. She also could be guilty but this sounds like reasonable doubt with the genetic evidence.

[@zenamen5221]

CORRECT!

[@ummuhajar558]

Agreed and even the prosecutor’s reasoning would fit for any mother.

[@ThriveCollective1188]

She’s been pardoned today. Free woman

[@DEPARTMENTOFREDUNDANCYDEPT]

This is a sad reminder of how in rare, convoluted cases involving particularly dismaying tragic death, the human tendency to rely on emotions over facts and deny the reality of coincidence and random, meaningless events can poison the waters of judgement so severely that a just and correct outcome becomes nearly impossible. Everybody is a self-appointed "expert" on what's "normal" or possible or even likely under the circumstances. Most people hate trying to sort out complex scenarios and tend to go for the simple answer, which is often wrong.

[@AimeeAimee444]

Richard, your pic is fascinating to me. Was that taken in the 1970's? It's a cool pic! 👍

[@DEPARTMENTOFREDUNDANCYDEPT]

@@AimeeAimee444 You nailed it! That is taken from my University of Minnesota student ID card in 1970, when I returned to university after four years in the U.S. Navy. Your observation is a little scary in its accuracy.

[@bellam7359]

As an Australian, it's incredibly disappointing that our legal system has ignored the opinions of 90 expert scientists from all over the world & that her conviction hasn't been overturned. Such an injustice.

[@Missliz441]

Just commenting to help this video in the youtube algorithm!

[@marnizavaleta]

Just liking your comment to further the effect 😁

[@janedmunds4218]

@@marnizavaleta Does this help too?? ;)

[@johnb6913]

She was pardoned June 2023 and her criminal charges in December have now been completely quashed.

[@MegaTinni]

the genetics do not explain the cortical blindness... she killed them, you don't have to have a mental condition to kill your children, especially very young children are so vulnerable and a real challenge for parents... you see in animals as well.

[@cee-emm]

Genetics didn't explain the breathing problems that the first child was born with but the doctors acknowledged it anyway. Some women have successive miscarriages when trying to have children; some women have late moscarriages and stillbirths of several children. None of those women were arrested. I supposed if those kids lived for a few days or weeks outside the womb we should just assume the mother murdered them?

[@MegaTinni]

@@cee-emm Let's see: what do miscarriages have to do whith this matter? They were healthy babies before the mother 'helped them' as she states in her diary. Did you read that diary? It's on the net.

[@MegaTinni]

@snooky12 Sadly, you don't. Sane people can be evil and willingly kill others...that includes mothers killing their young infants. Good of you to not allow non supportive people in your life. Don't generalize however, there are decent people and partners out there. Just always put your children first and trust no one on their word, look at their deeds.

[@cee-emm]

@@MegaTinni But they were literally not healthy babies, like in actual reality. Did you read anything about what the doctors told her or what geneticists say today? Have you read the comments here of the people whose babies had the same problems and would've had the same fate if not for their investment in an ox monitor? I am not a mental health professional and cannot judge the writings of somebody who has suffered PTSD and depression and God knows what else. How you judge the meaning of any of that without actually being a person familiar with her mental state? I'm not saying it's not weird or atypical but it does not prove murder beyond reasonable doubt. If my child died and I wrote "it's my fault" out of guilt that does not mean I murdered my child. She could have just as much been projecting her own perceived flawed genetics due to her father; turns out at least 2 of the children had a genetic abnormality. The difference here is that she did not stop having children after one or two passed like most people do. I brought up miscarriage/stillbirth because those are also usually caused by genetic problems; if the situation was different for a person who had two or more successive stillbirths, and instead of stillbirths the babies lived for some time outside the womb, should the mother be arrested for murder if she documented her own feelings of guilt about having lost her kids? There are simply huge amounts of reasonable doubt here. The only evidence is how people think they know how others should process grief.

[@ellemred]

Ohhh an Aussie case, thank you for this analysis 💖🇦🇺

[@Natasha_835]

Yes 🇭🇲

[@PetroicaRodinogaster264]

It is not the first one he has done. Check his list of videos...if you know how to!

[@Natasha_835]

@@PetroicaRodinogaster264 wow wow wow... are we getting bitch slapped ✋ far out... chip on the shoulder person.....

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

This case is absolutely fascinating. At first, my attention was solely on those diary entries, even though I don’t think they expressed a confession. But then I read the article that you posted on the description for this video - “Infanticide vs inherited cardiac arrhythmias.” After reading that I now believe she is actually innocent. How tragic!!😥💔 You analysis was outstanding, thank you for the video and for the references! ❤️

[@badgerhooker8275]

Dr. Grande, you are killing me with the Armie Hammer cannibal references lol

[@luffyduffy7817]

I don’t even know who Arm and Hammer is

[@redshiftexperiment]

Certainly some biting commentary for sure.

[@ruthweed7723]

@@DocBree13 h

[@kkittycatkat1990]

@@luffyduffy7817 Armie Hammer was a popular actor and I believe in his late 20s early thirties perhaps. it came out last year something about cannibalism. I'm not certain if it has affected his movie career or not. In these times it seems like politicians and celebrities are all one, especially when 95% support one party and advocate for that party and for every agenda said party wants them to. My point being is that if this actor did a lot for a certain party their career may be allowed to continue and MSM will just skip over the truth, as it always does, and the public forgets all about it or may never know to begin with. Good idea to dig around regarding your favorite politicians, Biden and what is really going on that MSM (CNN is the worst) is keeping from the viewers and voters. Bill and Hillary are extremely evil and never donate to any foundation they suggest as it will not go to those who need help. Same deal with Harry and Meghan, the donations go straight back to them. Sorry, a bit of a rant yet I find it relevant to the Army Hammer thing. If you begin digging you will as well. 😊 Stay well.

[@arin6479]

@@kkittycatkat1990 95% doesn't support the left you donut, stop polluting your brain now before you end up yelling at people on the street about q anon in your senile years 😂

[@55bigcheese]

WOW thanks Dr Grande, I'm Australian and didn't know much about this case. How shocking that a court in my country went with silly emotional diary entries over hard genetic science. Embarrassing too. Your voice is sounding 100x better btw, sound settings different? so much more base and a really warm timbre

[@Yahman1969]

Her conviction was overturned at appeal. I think she served 20 years before finally freed

[@carolynsilvers9999]

Being a mother, I can testify that pregnancy and childbirth is challenging. I cant imagine going through it four times, only to kill the children. Justice is not always just.

[@tarrenhunt]

I’ve wondered if a female Judge might have a different interpretation.

[@tessajones9393]

Plenty of women have done it though.

[@profilenamehello]

@@tessajones9393 One after another though? Usually moms who kill their kids kill them at the same time afaik.

[@lee3171]

You can't imagine it but it happens. Marie Noe killed 8 of her infants, Marybeth Tilling admitted to killing 1, but 9 other children died and it is suspicious. There are more examples.

[@idonhaveanyideawhattocallm1472]

Mother's kill their kids more often than you'd think, you're a reasonable person that's why you'd think nobody would but it's always unreasonable people who murder their children

[@christinehutchins123]

I always wonder what the husband was thinking after the second death. I'd be suspicious ....or maybe just not have anymore kids? Andrea Yates husband was even told she shouldn't have another baby because of her postpardem depression. He had to have known something might happen. I guess he didn't care. He found a new wife, and had more kids.

[@tarrenhunt]

Check out The Cry (2018), a series that does this idea well.

[@Autumn_Forest_]

Many, many people are extremely resentful of their babies’ intrusion on their lives but don’t kill their kids. Her having written about her resentment in a diary is just a sign that she had normal feelings and was using journaling as a way of dealing with her experience.

[@jessepitt]

Who tf would be willing to go through the whole process of pregnancy that many times if they have no desire to raise children?

[@inkompetenzkompensationsko4188]

Idk but i've seen it quite a few times. I think some people just like being pregnant and/or love tiny babys. The problem is that they don't stay cute and tiny

[@SjofnBM1989]

Lots of people. Marybeth Tinning killed 8 kids one after another just because she like the attention

[@moigoi4957]

Peer pressure. A lot of women get harassed by family, friends, and strangers to have children.

[@jessepitt]

@@moigoi4957 My wife and I are going for number two but it took two years for the trauma of the first one to fade sufficiently lol. I don’t think peer pressure would work if we didn’t actually want a second child. I can see getting pressured into the first one but after that...

[@NeckNotes]

There are some women who love to get pregnant, the attention and the whole deal, and then get a late term abortion, like 8-9 months along (yes that is legal in some places). They do this again and again. To me that's serial killer level crazy. It's not illegal, though the child could be delivered alive and well. I wish the Doctor would discuss this.

[@jsk8et]

I’m curious what a geneticist would say about the condition.

[@jsk8et]

@@wordsalad01 I’m sorry for your family’s loss! I didn’t expect any replies, so thanks for your insight.

[@jsk8et]

@@wordsalad01 I’m friends with two couples who have each had a child with relatively severe genetic disorders, and it’s a hard road.

[@cottontails9003]

@@wordsalad01 Thank you for your informed comment.

[@jenilynneful]

That sounds like some typical feelings parents have (ie wish they’d shut up, resent them, feel depressed or unsatisfied as a parent), then the guilt because society tells you you’re a horrible mother for having those thoughts.

[@zoeolsson5683]

This

[@grandsome1]

Society acts as if parents should feel endless stream of love towards their children all the time, which is frankly unrealistic.

[@lzal9204]

Exactly. All parents get overwhelmed at some point.

[@heathertownley9667]

She has been pardoned. there are sensical professionals in our justice system. May Kathleen find peace and acceptance in herself.

[@Ohhhlulu]

This one hits home. My husband and I are both carriers of a genetic mutation that causes VLCAD, which can be fatal if undiagnosed (luckily it is caught in newborn screening now in Canada). I have one affected daughter who thankfully remains healthy because it was diagnosed so early in her life. I often wonder how many of these cases can be attributed to undiagnosed genetic conditions like FODs.

[@TerryPower777]

“ I am my fathers daughter “ could mean she feels she is suffering divine punishment fro her fathers actions. It’s not necessarily an admiration of guilt. Also her statement “ with a little bit of help “ could mean she felt God took the baby! Her anger and resentments ... many mothers feel they are bad mothers and feel guilty about that. Often the ones who worry about this are the good mothers. Who care that they could do better. There is not any evidence that she killed them. Surely an autopsy would show foul play or is it so easy to hide murder? She has suffered enough AndI she should be released. There is no proof of guilt. It’s all just opinion not relying on valid logic. It’s just wrong she is deemed guilty. If she was guilty she would likely suggest her husband may have done it. But she didn’t do that as she k we he didn’t as she found them. Poor woman!

[@TheFaro2011]

I felt this

[@sherunswithscissors]

Totally agree.

[@tstarr8314]

Coroners do not just look at the autopsy to determine cause of death. They also consider the information given to them by the police about the circumstances of the death. If police do not see any obvious signs of foul play they will report that to the coroner who will take it into consideration. It was only after the death of her last child that allegations were made, and honestly the only compelling evidence I've heard of to show innocence is the genetic testing which came out well after the trial. Even the illnesses do not prove innocence, as a coroner cannot necessarily prove the difference between a baby being smothered and an illness causing breathing to stop.

[@TerryPower777]

T Starr yes but the allegations came out because the husband found that journal! Yet the mother didn’t try to say he did it. Yet it could have taken a lot of pressure of her. She knew the father didn’t do it either because she found the baby or because she caused it. So they didn’t more closely examine the bodies should not be to the mothers detriment. They can’t say oh shoot we should have considered foul play so now we assume it was foul play... they took her chance of autopsy showing her innocence by not doing one . The genetic problem could explain it. Yes maybe the chances are slim but it COULD happen. Much like a dingo taking a baby. Doesn’t usually happen but doesn’t mean that it didn’t ! Now most people accept the dingo really did take the baby.

[@angiepa58]

This was really compelling Dr G. I hate to think of the fact that she's gone through what she's gone through if she's innocent. What really grabbed my attention was one of your last comments about how the courts were guilty of murdering logic oh man that's very exacting. Thanks for the story.

[@profilenamehello]

Saddest thing is that she still might think she deserves this. This story is horrible. I doubt she did this.

[@kathybarth4863]

There was another famous case out of Australia where a dingo carried off a week old infant. The body was never found and the mother Lindy Chamberlain was found guilty of her baby’s murder. Eventually it was overturned. A movie was made about the incident since it received world wide attention Meryl Streep played the lead tool. I remember part of the reason the mother was so vilified was she didn’t act sad enough.

[@PetroicaRodinogaster264]

you are behind the times...He has done that one. Also the baby was not a week old she was 9 weeks old.

[@matilda4406]

her first nightmare was being orphaned at 2 years old in a horrific way. Second nightmare, losing her children which no doubt carried her trauma including faulty genes. Third nightmare, prison. She's definitely learned to take it. People who have no compassion should be put away instead.

[@possumintheblossom]

BREAKING NEWS - Kathleen Folbigg has been pardoned. The NSW Attorney General announced on 5 June 2023 (Australian time).that the recent inquiry found that there was reasonable doubt as to her guilt.

[@thereal4113]

Kathleen was a victim of the system. She needed help. In retrospect is it really that surprising the turn of events that put her back in the system. Maybe there should have been a conversation with the husband after the first baby died. Very sad. Another great analysis. Thank you Dr. Grande🪴

[@ea8269]

A lot of kids grow up in bad circumstances and come from dysfunctional families but they don't grow up to become a serial killer.

[@thereal4113]

@@ea8269 I agree with you.

[@aalm7966]

@@ea8269 Neither did she apparently.

[@LouisTheBlackCat]

*BIG NEWS* She was *_fully_* pardoned 3 hours ago at the time of writing this it's 2:33PM Monday the 5th of June 2023

[@originalnilson]

Lol at the "theatrics" of her screaming when finding her child in their cot. How should they think a mother should react when the find their kid has passed away?

[@XYZ-kb3mm]

they’re saying that she woke him up with a scream each time in the same fashion. you’d think it would happen a different way once or twice …

[@Redwarfa]

​@@XYZ-kb3mmI read a book that told me how to react in given situations Have you read it too

[@seltzertime2809]

“I do know that the court is guilty of murdering logic.” Oof. This is a really scary one. Reminds me of the Madeline McCann case when everyone turned against the parents over some weak ‘evidence.’

[@unslaadkrosis9435]

@@aeris2001 yeah i completely agree

[@Lesnooch]

@@aeris2001 Indeed. Not to mention the mothers odd remarks about her daughter's genitals in a book they published.

[@polarbearsrus6980]

Like when they said the Ramsey's killed Jon Benet... preposterous!!! The public hounded them from the moment their child was found after being viciously assaulted and tortured. All you need to do is look at the autopsy picture of the sweet child. Neither of her parents would be capable of that!!! I think people who jump right at the parents are probably envious and narrowminded. However, I'm not convinced this lady is not guilty. She certainly had a rough life and it definitely impacted her emotionally. Sad cases.

[@CyberChrist]

@@Lesnooch WTF did she say?!

[@jonathangriffiths2499]

If Mc Cann murdered the child , where is the body ?

[@cheriechetyrbok]

Not giving my opinion on guilt vs innocence however, I will say I find journals/diaries used as damning "evidence" very dangerous. Why? Because what is written often is not fact based but emotion. Odd ramblings etc.. People interpret a song/poem for example, a million unique ways. The one people point to as "no empathy", the one to paraphrase how she wanted the child to stop crying, then she did.. sounds like guilt of thought . Some think their thoughts can come true as a punishment. Ex: angry with someone, think briefly bad happening to them and when something does happen.... I know my poetry etc is so often misunderstood. Again, I do not know innocent vs guilty as not very informed on the facts or case but I 100% believe in science over diary. I think unless a literal confession backed by proof, even that could be some odd manifestation of guilt or psychosis... Think of the whole Marilyn Monroe was killed vs suicide theory...having her diary talk about depression and past attempts of suicide- a perfect tool to make everyone point to suicide vs murder.

[@melanieoakley8740]

She was pardoned by the governor after a 'voluminous' amount of evidence was presented. 4 June 2023.

[@kazveen8884]

🇦🇺BREAKING NEWS Kathleen has been pardoned.🇦🇺

[@Mr2pint]

She's just been pardoned, on reasonable doubt grounds...

[@ziggyvonmars]

She's been given unconditional pardon! She is INNOCENT!!

[@narellewelsh-q8r]

A pardon does not mean anyone is innocent, for that a person needs to have their case quashed - For the record I believe sh is innocent.

[@sherberts]

I don't think she is innocent

[@spaceorc1397]

Okay so I'm mad about this because the diary entries could be her letting out her guilt. As parents, one feels guilty about everything. Imagine losing 4 children. "It's not them it's me" (paraphrasing) could easily be her admitting to herself that there's something wrong with her and that maybe her God doesn't want her to have children, or biology doesn't. The father's daughter one too. It could be her saying to herself well her father killed her family, now she is killing hers too (by no fault of her own if it is genetic). About the wanting her (daughter) to shut up and she did. Yeah, (im an animal parent not a human parent but still) sometimes one gets annoyed by their babes, and they're gone one day and all the guilt comes rushing in about being annoyed with them when they were alive because you miss them so much.

[@phyllisphyllis6273]

Released and pardoned today

[@istateyourname4710]

Dr. G~Can you please analyze the issues swirling around Andrew Cuomo?

[@garmtpug]

I wonder if pathologists and/or doctors thought of a genetic disorder after the second child died? Wouldn't that come to mind right away? Was it possible at that time? It just seems like many people dropped the ball with this. And why wasn't see seeking some kind of mental health help? She had anger and depression problems. Also, and this is a big thing to me, why wasn't she using birth control if she really wasn't happy being a mother? There are so many things that are unanswered that I can't come to any kind of conclusion with this.

[@bm_videa]

This topic was very difficult to listen to.

[@maureeningleston1501]

Thank you Dr Grande, I've always been fascinated by this case, your the very man to get to the truth.

[@DonnaBrooks]

It's, "YOU'RE the very man...," as in, "you are." "Your" means something that belongs to "you".

[@maureeningleston1501]

@@DonnaBrooks Thank you. :-)

[@suehuber7722]

How about 1st 2 kids died, not killed. She had enough inability to control anxiety, noted how easily she could kill, without suspicion, then did kill last to in a pique of stress,?

[@alimar0604]

So glad to see you Dr Grande. Love your shirt. I am thinking aubergine? For interest we had a similar case in UK where a mother was convicted of murdering her children. It was then established that they had all died from the same genetic disorder 🇬🇧

[@vernongrant3596]

No doubt she was found guilty in the court of public opinion. This has been a big story here in Australia for a long time. Thank you for your analysis.

[@vernongrant3596]

@@xiyx9748 yes I think she did it.

[@user-cs1un6sp1wRennata]

Sad case 😔 If she's not guilty then she should be released from prison because being in there can only prolong her suffering 😔 Great job Dr.Grande!

[@peterlawrence6815]

At least she did 20 years.

[@Jess-jt4zf]

Off topic but I need to share that you inspired me to get some cacti... Seeing you interact with them and the love you exude towards them, as well as the pure joy they seem to bring you, made me look at them from a new perspective. Now I have a deep appreciation for these cute little plants and could say it's a hobby I'm getting into. I'm thinking of naming the next one I get "Doc" in your honour. ☺️

[@katerineella274]

You'll have hours of fun rearranging them on the shelves!

[@Olive131]

The diary entries you mentioned sound like the thoughts of someone who was depressed and had low self esteem. She could have blamed herself for what happened with her parents. Young children internalize much. After losing her own children, she may have felt she was undeserving of any good in the world. Those feelings found their way to the pages of her diary. Don't know if she killed any of her children, but she has suffered much trauma. Even the strongest of people would struggle with internal demons.

[@Blake1720]

Why keep having children though if she felt that way? Not saying that makes her guilty but it’s strange to have such depression, frustration, and fear of another child dying just to keep having kids..

[@nadinekeating3255]

I would think that even if there was no diary to speak of, a jury would still have a hard time coming to a not-guilty verdict. To have all of your children die (in the same way) would be a difficult thing for a "reasonable" person to believe it wasn't murder.

[@jenrutherford6690]

After 2 deaths it would be surprising if Kathleen was capable of bonding with her infants at all. It's not surprising she was emotionally distant .

[@70zenboy]

You absolutely have to do Lindy chamberlain and the iconic “a dingos got my baby” case.

[@PetroicaRodinogaster264]

he has done it

[@70zenboy]

@@PetroicaRodinogaster264 ok cool. I’ll have to look back at dr grande’s older vids then. I’m a new subscriber so not familiar with his previous analyses. 🙏 was fascinated with this case as a kid here in Oz.

[@DonnaBrooks]

​@@PetroicaRodinogaster264 I must have missed that! I know the New York Times Retro YT channel did a video about Lindy Chamberlain and also about the woman who sued when she was burned by McDonald's coffee. Many of us who watched those vids commented that we were ashamed at the certainty & speed with which we had condemned these women! It just goes to show how easily a mob mentality can overtake us. I think an interesting topic for Dr. Grande to address would be why we are so susceptible to that phenomenon and if there is anything we can do to prevent, or at least counter, such a rush to judgement by the public.

[@reverendkandal]

Kathleen has just today (5th June 2023) been pardoned and released from prison after an initial report from an inquiry has expressed a firm belief that reasonable doubt exists. The conviction has not been quashed at this stage. An appeal will need to be launched before that could happen.

[@drakedrones]

Dr Grande I need a T-shirt : not diagnosing....only speculating. 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍

[@margorobertson1468]

Update, kathleen has today been pardoned after serving 20 years

[@whiteobama3032]

"If she's innocent she wouldbe living through her second nightmare" I would say third, since she already went through her dad stabbing her mom to death.

[@cassandra5516]

Where my fellow Hunter Valley people in the comments? I can't believe we're seeing Kathleen covered on this channel!

[@leejay1936]

When she was first convicted I was surprised the only evidence was the number of kids she had who died and some vague diary entries. There was no real evidence at all.

[@leejay1936]

@@xiyx9748 of all the dumb comments I've read, this is the most recent.

[@melcollins3039]

If a baby is smothered, there really is no evidence to prove they were

[@eek1759]

This really is a tough one. One thing I don't think you mentioned was the effect an ill child has on parent stress. You indicated the children were not healthy to begin with. When babies don't feel well, the only recourse they have is to cry. So they could have been crying much more than a normal healthy baby would, thereby really amping up her stress levels. If she had postpartum depression, the stress of the excessive crying plus the inevitable feelings of failure as a mother to soothe and make her baby happy could have created a perfect storm. That said, they still could have died naturally. One question I have is the lack of evidence of suffocation. I have always understood that there are clear indicators of suffocation. Were these not present?

[@Anastashya]

No, there was no evidence of suffocation at all.

[@eek1759]

@@Anastashya Then how else do they think she could have killed them?

[@gigi9301]

After the first "SIDS" death, I would for sure get a nanny for 24/7 vigilance. If they couldn't afford that, then please do not chance more children! Just seems too overwhelming to be a case of bad luck. Terrible judgement to go ahead with more pregnancies, without additional precautions.

[@gigi9301]

@snooky12 Then having more babies should not have been her thing, either.

[@morriganwitch]

As a retired midwife these cases have a special interest for me xxx infanticide cannot be treated the same as murder in my opinion . . Xxx thank you

[@morriganwitch]

@Cooper Infanticide was brought in to English law because the law recognised well studied scientific , psychological , and medical evidence , that giving birth can produce well documented cases of hormonal .imbalance I myself have treated women with for example puerperal psychosis who are in a state of unreality , and are unwittingly a danger to themselves and their babies xxx

[@tstarr8314]

@@morriganwitch I know someone whose post-partum depression caused her to disassociate, and she actually 'woke up' standing next to the cot holding a pillow. Her mother had to move in with them so that she was never left alone with the baby, and they were lucky to afford psychiatric care (partially because we have public health care programs for new mothers). It wasn't until she told me her story that I learnt how severe the symptoms of post-partum depression could be. While her mental health has improved significantly, and they went on to have a second child, her mental health not fully recovered. She is an awesome woman and an awesome mum though.

[@morriganwitch]

@@tstarr8314 it is so harrowing when you are around those you love and this happens , we have a few special units in the U.K. and also if the episode is acute and the drugs kick in plus support they can be kept on the ward in special family rooms . However I must admit it was challenging to care for these families as you had to risk assess constantly xxxthank you for your insight xxx

[@aryajadhav-more8572]

‘Court is guilty of murdering logic’ - apt description

[@Loogiemistress]

Kathleen has just been freed!

[@therealmrsruttle]

Dr Grande I would love to hear your non diagnosis on Mary Beth Tinning. Seven of her infants died from “SIDS” even her adopted child if I remember correctly. Terribly sad case.

[@darcie5742]

She's just been pardoned and released from prison today

[@sekenamcmurren2217]

I believe this woman was traumatize by the murder of her mother by her father. Although her baby had medical problems why would she and her husband continued to have children? I believed she killed 3 of her children and the first one died from SIDS.😒

[@terrianneconnor7029]

Firstly the loss of her own mother at the hands of her father. Then a nightmare of a childhood. Balanced analysis as always Dr G . Warm regards from Australia

[@avachristie8010]

Do you have any follow up thoughts on Kathleen’s recent pardon after serving 20 years of her sentence. It’s big news here in Australia.

[@sayhello5377]

My biggest worry as a new mom was SIDS. My son was premature (born at 35 weeks) and spent 10 days in NICU before coming home. He had a breathing problem from under developed lungs. I’m so glad we have the science and technology we have today. We got him an Owlet Smart Sock (a pulse ox monitor for baby’s foot). When he was 19 days old, the alarm went off in the middle of the night. He had stopped breathing and we had to shake him to startle him to breathe again. Terrifying!

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

Thank you for sharing. That must be really terrifying! The ox monitor was a great judgement call.👍🏼

[@janmeyer3129]

Similar experience - but before home monitors were available. Had his bassinet in our room. Found it amazing how the absence of breathing noises I wasn’t consciously registering could wake me up in an instant. Restarting his breathing was easy - just flicked a foot, but the experience left me feeling totally drained and unable to go back to sleep. Only happened like this over about 4 weeks, though had been much more frequent before he left hospital. He grew up just fine (bit odd, but fine)

[@soycandyyque4412]

Dr grande ! Today 4 of June 2023 she has been pardoned !

[@TheNunududu]

Dr. Grande's audio is great. A little too great. I can hear every moist movement of every wet molecule in his mouth and it's triggering the sht out of my misophonia. It's probably just me and one other guy in here. But keep up the dope content!

[@lciav]

I think those diary entries are hardly damning, especially if they are long entries. It would be easy to cherry pick things that sound bad. It sounds more like natural guilt that is felt when someone experiences a tragedy. We start blaming ourselves for something that we had no control over. There definitely was some confirmation bias going on in the court. I don't know if she's guilty or not, but there wasn't enough evidence .

[@LMCEK]

Please cover the Marybeth Tinning case. So similar

[@mzliberty7647]

wtg Dr Grande ... June 2023 .... she has been released. you called it ......