Codependent Mother/Daughter Relationship Ends in Brutal Murder | Paige Conley Case Analysis

This video answers the question: Can I analyze case of Paige Conley?
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[@taylormckenzie707]

Hi, Paige is my aunt and Carlene was my gran. I appreciate your analysis. I’m the niece that you are referring to and there are a few things I’d like to add for anyone who is interested. The incident with the dog and my having to call the police also involved becoming somewhat of a hostage situation for me. I was in 7th grade so 12 I think? It was pretty traumatic for me, but the worst part was my Gran repeatedly apologizing to me on behalf of Paige. It was gut wrenching. The part about Paige having bit my Gran is more gruesome than the public was made aware of. Paige bit my Gran numerous times while she was alive and several times after she had died, we know because some of the wounds did not bleed. Paige is also known for bragging to call mates about having eaten parts of my Gran. That has never been proven but it’s still deeply disturbing. As for Paige’s self defense claim, it was insulting. My Gran was 69 years old, had osteoporosis, arthritis, and was generally frail. Any would Paige received was undoubtedly a wound caused by my Gran defending herself. It’s the hardest thing to sit there during a trial and have the defense team completely LIE their asses off and knowing you can’t do anything about it. It’s basically character assassination, my Gran can’t defend herself on the stand and we couldn’t refute the insulting claims on her behalf. There’s so much more but those were the 3 things that I thought of while watching your video. If you wanted more info, I’d be happy to share anything you want to know.

[@NickanM]

Thank you for posting this information. My first thought when I heard that Paige was a biter was that she shouldn't be released EVER. Biters are a special kind of criminals, biting is a sign of true sadism. I feel so bad for your grandmother, may she rest in eternal peace. ❤️

[@gabrielleandrew542]

Dear Taylor , This must be terribly upsetting . Your gran tried to do the right thing … nevertheless in hindsight she was enabling poor behaviour and in a very dangerous situation with a deranged and violent daughter . It seems as if the smallest thing could tip that daughter over the edge to homicidal rage . Namely … making a tray of lasagne . Poor Carlene … and then to be character assassinated after death by defense solicitors. Just dreadful the whole thing . The only way to possibly keep safe was for Carlene to have very little to do with her daughter

[@laurapowell1014]

I was about to write your mom to see if y’all saw this.

[@shirl974]

So sorry 💙🙏💙

[@sopheadutch6350]

I'm sorry about your Gran and thanks for sharing. I believe everything you said & it is so unfortunate and awful what became of Paige after been raised by mom (imo, having kids lead to unpredictable circumstances/state but worse part is: no justice for the innocent/good).

[@meddy8216]

I am a 911 dispatch supervisor and work in this 911 center. I was working the night this occurred and remember it well. Immediately after hanging up the phone my dispatcher looked at me and said "there's something more to this" She could tell when talking to her she was lying. Really hope she doesn't get parole.

[@taylormckenzie707]

Hearing the call, it was obvious to everyone, especially my family who knows exactly how Paige is

[@kiiltochii1607]

Source: "trust me, bro"

[@Barb85044]

I am crying now. This is me and my daughter who is SMI and 47 yo. She had a serious medical emergency and has been in hospital and rehab for 2 months. I refuse to take her back. I can't. She is all of the things you mentioned about the daughter and more. Thank you. I won't let her back. She will kill me either physically or emotionally.

[@Dawn-f7g]

Good Luck! My 40 year old daughter told me about 16 years ago that she basically didn’t like me, I had divorced her father when she was about 5 years old because he was cheating on me, doing cocaine and selling cocaine, he endangered us. I try so hard to help her. She is bitter, violent , resentful etc., very cold but deep down she wants to be better. Thankfully she does see a therapist, takes her meds and doesn’t abuse drugs or alcohol. Happy holidays and many blessings ❤

[@DescendIntoTheAbsurd]

God Bless you. Stay Strong.

[@Juke582]

Sometimes tough love is a blessing for all! Stay with it!

[@lmiller1413]

If you seek support for yourself to better help your daughter, or you require her to get treatment, be careful. You want an experienced therapist not a young new one who can be manipulated into siding with your daughter. Splitting a therapist against a parent ot other person who holds a person accountable is real. The type of treatment required for individuals with personality disorders is tricky, requires skill and sufficient experience.

[@StAlphonsusHasAPosse]

❤❤❤🙏🙏🙏

[@fizzgona]

11:37 “Paige killed a person who repeatedly tried to save her from herself ,in this sense she killed her own redemption” What a sad story 😔 May the mom rest in peace 🕯️🙏🕊️

[@therose5783]

This does not sound like a person that should be walking around free... EVER!

[@tkchavez1552]

I can relate to Carlene’s struggle to help her daughter. She just so believed in her daughter’s ability to turn her life around and she was never going to give up on her. You’re right the line between helping and hindering is a very fine one.

[@Cookiemonster885]

Dr. Grande calls it "enabling". I call it, "A system that, depite its horrendous cost, doesn't have a good answer to mental health issues". My son is autistic and the mental places I encocuntered are terrifying. Some of the staff there is not even hiding their cruelty and short temper. I cannot imagine taking my son to one of those places again. In my opinion, Paige's mother most likely had no good answers, like the rest of us parents - and refused to send Paige back to one of those mental facilities.

[@elainemarock5840]

But at least she would have been safe . And alive .

[@Whatishappeningworld]

You can't look after him yourself? Or should tax payers foot the bill?

[@maragirl1658]

Any problem that goes unchecked gets worse over time. There are no exceptions. Sad.

[@nancyayotte2297]

That's the damn truth. I had a very good mom and dad but mom was in charge and only knew how to ignore things. Ended up being very damaging to me and makes me so confused. How can you love your child but ignore their trauma and not protect them or even acknowledge it?. Does anyone understand how confusing that was and is to me? My mom definitely did not want me to grow up and leave her.

[@evelynesimon5758]

Sometimes love just isn't enough ​@@nancyayotte2297

[@skreemqueen7520]

This case is so sad. I can’t imagine how horrified and heartbroken Carlene must have felt in her last moments. May she rest in peace.

[@EllaEllaEh]

Situations like this make me wish I had my mom back. Was I the best daughter? No. But I sure did appreciate and love my mom. I miss her so much!

[@clevelandplonsey7480]

Oh punkin ❤️

[@pou618]

This woman should never get out of jail.

[@joelewis1776]

Seriously. Honestly it’s rare that you see such a bluntly misanthropic+socially toxic person. Poster child for someone who will reoffend

[@chakko007]

@@joelewis1776 Yep.

[@rullvox5912]

Codependency is a vicious cycle.

[@amandaherbert4194]

Powerful statement

[@katarina1852]

Carlene enabled and protected Paige until she paid for it with her life. So heartbreaking.

[@itachi-hf3kv]

Some parents dont realize that protecting their kids their whole life not to face consequences is the worse thing you can do to your kids because out in the real world youll get your ass handed with that self entitled attitude plus most times those kids become good for nothing adults.

[@harrisindustries314]

Denial can be deadly.

[@nickhoffman9256]

Exactly this. Paige should've been in an institution given how violent she was. It's harsh but she was a massive danger to everyone around her given her mental health state.

[@GinaHarmeyer]

Stories like this are scary, especially when we are dealing with a family member with mental illness(es). One has to ask themselves "when to adult kids stop being the responsibility of the parent?" It seems like our system isn't set up to help take care of them and it is left to the family members, who probably don't have any training in mental health care. Where do the parents go for help if the adult child refuses to help themselves but as a parent, you don't want them to end up on the streets? It's a gut-wrenching position to be in.

[@Chris-tg3qy]

The underlying problem in the United States is that we have to do something about our drug problem. Cases like this almost always have a drug connection. Drugs can cause mental health issues and minor mental health issues become much larger once the brain has suffered the consequences of drug use. This isn’t a failure to launch situation that can be handled with tough love. This is irreversible damage to the cognitive parts of the brain that make it almost impossible for them to function as reasonable adults even after the drug use has ended.

[@lf9341]

@@Chris-tg3qy it's not always drugs but mental illness.

[@Chris-tg3qy]

@@lf9341 I agree, but in this case we know drug use over the course of many years was involved. A mental health issue without illegal drugs is much easier to treat than someone with a mental health issue that also used meth or other stimulants over many years. It’s hard enough treating mental health issues related to cognitive skills and maturity, but once drugs that deteriorate the brain are added to the mix it becomes extremely difficult. Illegal drugs like meth are fairly mainstream and easy to come by. It’s no surprise to me that mental health issues are also in the rise. I also think society plays a significant role in mental health difficulties too. People are just not as respectful like they once were and jobs are ridiculously demanding.

[@kathyflorcruz552]

​@@Chris-tg3qyJobs are ridiculously demanding? Compared to what other era?

[@Chris-tg3qy]

@@kathyflorcruz552 Yes, I say that as someone who has worked for several organizations in my lifetime. When I first entered the workforce there were receptionists at companies and hair salons, etc. They answered the phones, cleaned up and booked reservations, etc. Those jobs are now being incorporated into other jobs and those entry level jobs are gone. Everyone has become a jack of all trades and doing the jobs of 2 or 3 people. Companies are forcing us to do more with less and companies are not staffed properly when someone is out sick for an extended period. Also, there was on the job training. I learned basic keyboarding and computer skills at my job and was given the time to actually learn those skills during my workweek. Now, employees are expected to come to a job fully trained, but the compensation isn’t that much different. That’s what I mean. In the past, people came to a job and learned increasing responsibilities in a reasonable time. It was a good way for people to enter the workforce and learn skills. Those jobs are pretty much gone. Also, layoffs used to only happen when companies were doing poorly. Now, they happen as a way for a company that is already making a lot of money to keep increase profits to make more money for shareholders and executives. That is a lot of stress for someone to deal with and try to raise a family and live a normal life. Jobs are ridiculously stressful when you factor in the expectations and what that does to employee relationships because of fear and scarcity.

[@Jeanne90275]

A situation like this rarely gets better without mental health intervention. I can understand a parent not wanting to put their child out on the street, but Paige's violent behavior foreshadowed a disaster waiting to happen. In this case it was the mother, but it could just as easily been another family member Paige was jealous of.

[@dg2517]

sad thing is if she reported it, I doubt the police would help especially since they are both female adults. They certainly dont help with violent autistic kids!

[@flingonber]

Unless you have a lot of money, intensive mental health services aren't really available in the US for anything longer than a week or two at the most. It's a complicated issue because community care really is best for most people, but there are some people where long-term institutionalization is in everyone's best interests, and there's virtually nothing available anymore for those people. Their issues get ignored until something like this happens and then they end up in prison (still not getting much treatment, but at least sequestered from the rest of society).

[@Gina19876]

If mental health intervention does nothing to stop people taking their own lives, I doubt it would've done a thing to prevent this miscreant from murdering her mother.

[@flingonber]

@@Gina19876 If that were true, maybe, but it's not; there are multiple mental health interventions that are effective for suicidality. Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) reduces suicide rates by 50%, and that's just one example.

[@nataliep501]

THIS!

[@rapunzelmane9592]

The symptoms scream Borderline Personality Disorder rather than Bipolar (the fear of abandonment,, attention-seeking, jealousy, and violence). The two conditions are often mistaken for one another.

[@JuliaOstrovok]

Maybe they both together, then it can be an explosiding bomb. I know a person narcissist + bipolar. In bipolar community we don't welcome people who have other disorders except bipolar because of that reason: bipolar disorder isn't toxic or violent, maximum that you can is being irritated

[@sarahjaye4117]

It really does with histrionic tendencies , maybe bipolar too but one can have insomnia badly w out bipolar or it was substance use or all of the above

[@Altered4n892t]

This woman should never get parole. Her poor mother … 🤦🏼‍♀️.

[@AnnaBelll.e]

😢😢😢

[@mistrjt9213]

This woman is just plain *crazy* .

[@weaviejeebies]

She gets violent when she's manic and someone opposes her intentions. I doubt she'll get through prison without accumulating more serious charges. It's going to affect how often she cycles and there's lots of opportunities to be told no in there.

[@patrickmcdonagh539]

Poor daughter

[@maryellengodfrey]

Actually , Mothers are Murdered more than anyone in terms of psych Patients. Usually by males though but mist always when the mother is taking care of them.

[@deedeerobertson2305]

This case intrigues me. I was raised in Kentucky in a disfunctional household with a mother co-dependent with a narcissistic substance abusing sibling. When I heard about the argument concerning birthday lasagna, I felt that I understood it completely. You see, the mother was supposed to know what Paige wanted even though Paige wouldn’t tell her. Narcisstic,controlling, self-involved Paige would have expected her mom to keep cooking, eager to please, and possibly multiple dishes, until Paige’s birthday wishes were satisfied - if they ever were. It was all about Paige controlling her mom (her servant) - and on Paige’s special day, she expected that control to be complete! It is a vicious, cruel game that goes on everyday between dependent and co-dependent. It is hell. In this case it ended in death. Prayers for the surviving family members.

[@taylormckenzie707]

That is the perfect way to describe their relationship. Gran was supposed to read Paige’s mind and if she couldn’t, my Gran wouks suffer

[@deborahblackvideoediting8697]

Poor Carlene. The only chance she stood of surviving her daughter was to do a 'midnight move' and not ever let Paige know where she went to. Carlene clearly wanted to help her daughter, but just didn't know how.

[@tessaducek5601]

I was diagnosed bipolar and high anxiety. My personal episodes were staying in bed for days or breaking my own stuff. I take my prescrition daily and sometimes feel the depression but it is drastically different now. I can't imagine hurting anyone. I know we all react differently and she had other issues. But it has to be hard knowing you killed your mom . She is where she belongs and probably should be released to a pychiatric facility.

[@rhondasisco-cleveland2665]

Not everyone can love. Some people just don’t have that in their wiring.

[@lf9341]

That woman had much more thaan bipolar going on....

[@scottdavidson526]

Her mother kept protecting her. It ultimately cost her her life.

[@DaveGmn]

"Paige never grew up." That's exactly what leapt to mind when Dr. Grande mentioned repeated incidents of biting. That's the way 18-month-olds lash out, and it's extremely important to make sure that biting behavior is never tolerated. In her decades of child-care, my wife was brilliant in the use of "time out," physical separation, and suggestions to use words, not physical expression of anger. There are limits; the mother in this case didn't seem to be aware of that concept.

[@mimimorea2455]

Seeing situations like this solidify my stance of never wanting children. Imagine having a kid and raising it just for them to end up murdering you, my goodness. What a nightmare.

[@elizabethhamm5320]

Too bad that she didn’t get 20 years when she stabbed her boyfriend. If she had been charged with attempted murder back then, her mother might still be alive

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

Unfortunately this dynamic happens to a lot of people, where a mother becomes a hostage of her own daughter. Excellent analysis, as always. ❤

[@bmarkie4103]

I listen to so many cases where parents who have violent children and would cover for them and end up getting killed or seriously hurt hy the very children they constantly cover for.

[@SwimminWitDaFishies]

Well, I suppose they either accepted the possibility of losing their life at the hand of their "child", or they have a mental issue of their own that prevented them from seeing the potential danger they were in.

[@itachi-hf3kv]

I call that stupidity, plain and simple.

[@romanhollow2985]

No killer should ever walk the streets again.

[@TeaSpiracy]

Dr Grande, I hope you see this. Firstly, Happy Holidays to you, the boys & wife. I must be honest. Years ago I found you to be too dry and boring. I was also not in the greatest place in life. NOW, I find myself seeking you out bc you are very soothing, calming and level-headed and and I love that you are able to see the real root of the issues you talk about without adding emotional sensationalism. I have worked on myself and grown as an individual and I find the polarity of how I once viewed you compared to how much I now value you now to be interesting. Thought I'd share. I'm aways here, may as well. It's the least I can do other than liking your video. There is NO ONE else like you out here on KZbin Dr. Grande. I hope you know you're one of a kind! I look forward to joining your Patreon.

[@TheMisterGriswold]

Our legal system sure likes to tie itself in knots.

[@stevemcraemanager7119]

Those pesky rules and law about proper representation.

[@robertgiles9124]

No "proper representation " for her victim. But let's cry about the killer because it just cannot be her fault. @@stevemcraemanager7119

[@sgueymard]

My elderly mother is in the same situation with my narcissistic sister... I've warned the authorities about the multiple abuses but my mother is protecting her 60 yo daughter... This situation is making me sick: i feel powerless.

[@aliciagriggs8531]

People who are in a strong dysphoric manic episode can be dangerous, aggressive, and violent. And that's why I stay away from those people.

[@miya7900]

That sense of emptiness, in which the daughter have lived, was like an endless swirl. All these mother's sacrifices were not seen from the daughter! It was like a dangerous pathologic level of self entitlement that created the horrible result of a daughter killing her mother 😢

[@Heidi_137]

Right, she sounds more like a malignant narcissistic psychopath than any other actual mental illness.

[@ladycake1515]

Yeah what kind of shet circus was the mom to get such a daughter

[@bugsy742]

2 replies- can’t see either of them! 😮

[@It-is-me...Melsie]

@@bugsy742 They've been deleted. I've noticed that Dr G (or his helpers) deletes anything overly nasty, spam, or any criticism of himself.

[@bugsy742]

@@It-is-me...Melsie ahh ok 👍 thanks buddy 🤗🤝

[@elisekuby2009]

How do characters like Paige fare in prison, when there is no one to pander to their many needs? I am curious to know if they grow up and improve or learn or cognite or...?

[@mpettway6982]

I would imagine she's either heavily medicated or she spends a lot of time in solitary.

[@taylormckenzie707]

Unfortunately, as far as my family has heard, she has not been assaulted in prison or picked up any new charges

[@cloo6984]

Im so sorry you've had to experience this. My condolences to you. 😢​@@taylormckenzie707

[@breathnstop]

They are usually manipulative and Plat the victim. If they get CBT and behavioral training they can change.

[@xoxodestinydawn]

Im amazed at the speed at which you give us quality content. I hope you will give yourself a much needed break and enjoy the closing of the year ❤ You deserve it

[@terryKessler42719]

As soon as I see Dr. Grande has dropped a new video, I go to the site and like it even before I view it. I just know I’m going to like it. His videos are the only ones I like before watching. I’ve never viewed one that I haven’t liked. Does anyone else do this?

[@brettnipps7205]

Thanks for the breakdown of this. Mental illness is tough business when your in the middle of it. Solid breakdown in my book.

[@louisecolombi6630]

It is so important to see people just the way they are, and go no contact with toxic individuals. Absolutely no contact at all: even if the individual is a close relative. I constantly hear we should not be judgmental, never judge anyone, don’t judge… this is such bad advice because it kills your instinct, your ability to protect yourself, your ability to take important health and safety decisions. So judge, judge judge, and judge everyone and everything

[@belle8i]

People confuse discernment with judgment. Realizing someone is dangerous is not being judgmental, it's having discernment. Bears look cuddly but discernment helps you to realize that a wild animal doesn't want to cuddle, so you take steps to protect yourself.

[@velvetbees]

This is sad and serious, but the comedy is great. "Her biting habit would not bite the dust." is truly masterful.

[@trace9657]

Paige was a miserable unhappy person. I suspect that on some level she blamed her mother for bringing her into the world. Even if she knew it was irrational.. "Here I am broken and destitute, you brought me here, you have to fix me."

[@SacredDreamer]

🤔,, interesting thought. I personally feel that Paige is a person with excessive jealousy and wanted to possess her mother - and went psycho when her mother expressed love to others. She wanted to be "the only one" in both her mother's eyes and the boyfriend's. . I feel that Carlene was not "co-dependant" but knew she was in a high risk situation and "bowed down" to her daughter - to keep the peace.

[@taylormckenzie707]

Exactly right. Paige blamed her parents divorce and her subsequent addiction issues on my Gran and my Gran felt like she owed her

[@GGiblet]

Another strange and disturbing case. Thanks as always for the interesting content!

[@tanyaedwards4574]

this is such an interesting case. Needy mom and daughter. Where was her dad? What happened in her early life? It sounds like mom was trying to right the wrongs of Paige's earlier upbringing, and Paige recognised that, and took full advantage of it. Please, Dr.Grande, give us insight as to whether people are born narcissists, or whether upbringing plays a huge role. So many people think they're victims, so many people become manipulative because of neediness.but only a handful go onto create better lives. It has to be because of how your own parents were raised, or early childhood upbringing?

[@SetiSupreme]

I'm pretty sure she enabled Paige by drowning her in love , affection and gifts early on and she grew to expect it and got a twisted view of what was a normal mom-daughter relationship. Of course nothing what happened was Csrlenes fault per se, she probably thought she was doing the best she could for her daughter

[@Chris-tg3qy]

@@SetiSupreme her drug use took a manageable situation and turned it into an irreversible problem. Hard drugs today are laced with all kinds of poison that damage cognitive functioning. Dr Grandr spends his time making these videos rather than learning what is actually going on in the field of psychology because it is much easier to do that than actually help people.

[@Chris-tg3qy]

@Kittyscraftcorner-ud6ij Probably not near as significant as the drug use. A bad dad is not going to be helpful. The drug use is extremely damaging and some people just don’t return to their normal brain functioning.

[@taylormckenzie707]

My grandpa and Gran divorced when Paige was young and Paige blamed it on my Gran. My grandpa had nothing to do with either of them until the day he died

[@kathyflorcruz552]

Doubt that the mother allowed contact with the father possibly blaming him for everything that happened which is often the case. It alienates the kids from fathers. Could be why they got divorced too if the mother made the child the center of her universe. That would explain the alienation from empathy to other people in Paige & her extreme control demands & rage over the mother's attention on anyone but herself. "My opinion". (I wrote this before I read what Taylor said what happened with the divorce.) The fact is fathers are talking more than ever about being ejected from their children's lives by not only the women but by the courts as well. It's a huge problem that's been ignored for decades.

[@Kari.F.]

You often bring light to cases I've never heard of. Much appreciated, Dr. Grande!

[@juliej5917]

Envy is too kind a word to use for Paige: downright jealously is more like it. I can’t imagine her return to society.

[@MsPiinkFllamingo]

Trick or Treaters? Interesting way to begin a concocted insanity plea.

[@cassandraespinosa2223]

😆🎃🙄🥴

[@taylormckenzie707]

Yeahhh when my family listened to her interrogation, we actually laughed at that part while sobbing. Hearing her ridiculousness was just comical in the worst way

[@maureeningleston1501]

Wishing you and your family a very Happy Christmas Dr Grande. I've followed and enjoyed your channel for years. TYVM for your daily and wonderful content.👍👏👏

[@lilbitsleepy2574]

I can’t help but think that Paige will be better off in prison. Carlene wasn’t able to provide healthy boundaries and I can empathise that she parented to her best abilities. Just the fact that she never had her daughter face consequences seems like it was because she didn’t want Paige to suffer any more negatives in life beyond what she already struggled with. But firm boundaries and consequences of actions have their own comfort of predictability and for Paige, it was predictable that no matter how bad her behaviour, she was protected from consequence. Sadly, now through her own actions, Paige has lost the one person who always cared for her but she will have ample time for reflection on those consequences as she sobers up and gets used to life in prison.

[@ADAPTATION7]

My sentiment exactly: She's better off in prison or in a psychiatric hospital.

[@mrparlanejxtra]

oNE DAY THIS WOMAN WILL BE OUT OF PRISON AND SHE WILL ATTACK AGAIN

[@Chris-tg3qy]

If Paige did hard drugs for a long period of time then that is most likely the reason for her bad behavior.

[@merleanderson3564]

Your wit is amazing!

[@beab4541]

You mention she suffered bipolar and other mental disorders. As the mother of an adult child who suffers mental disorders, I know how difficult it is to cut them out. The alternative is to let them be in the streets to fend for themselves when they are not really able to do so, work or get a place to live. It's a heartbreaking conundrum. I have several times called the police on my son when he was menacing, to make it clear to him that such behavior will not be tolerated, but throw him out? Very little help is available from institutions in such cases and that is why so many mentally ill people are out on the streets.Or living in our basement. Please don't judge mothers who try to keep their adult child safe so harshly.

[@breezey81]

My mother is going through something similar with my brother who has just started showing extreme bipolar symptoms earlier this year. It's frustrating, and I hate what he is doing to her. I'm ready to cut him off from my life, but she is hesitant. I don't judge you or my mother though. I can't imagine how it must feel to see your child go through this. I can only process this as a sibling, not a parent. I'm attached, but not nearly as much. I'm sorry about your situation 😔

[@Chris-tg3qy]

I am in the same situation as you. I just do my best to keep my adult child safe. I worry everyday about her future.

[@roya340]

You already have a difficult life, so why should you care for people’s opinions? Nobody is in your shoes to judge you. God gives you strength and health to deal with everyday life challenges. You be in my prayers. 🙏🙏

[@lmiller1413]

100 percent truth!!!!!

[@lmiller1413]

Our society doesn't provide enough resources for adults with mental health disabilities.

[@deedeerobertson2305]

Dr Grande. Thank you for all the videos this year. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family. I am not really good with words so I don’t know, exactly, how to express how your videos help me. The best I can do is say that the way you analyze these cases, objectively, beginning to end, has helped me with the control of my own emotions. I am much more able to pause, think, and analyze myself before acting. Does that make sense? I think you saved me from impulsively buying a crappy used mini van this week, just because I had the holiday blues - LOL Love your sense of humor and the cacti. Best wishes.

[@tck3041]

Merry Christmas Dr Grande. Thankyou 🎄🎶

[@jenniferchin429]

This is really one of the saddest cases I've heard. I agree with your analysis

[@christinacreates2393]

I’m not diagnosing anyone but sounds like the daughter had some borderline personality traits.

[@evoz4489]

I agree. Definitely Cluster B. Borderline PD can also be comorbid with other Cluster B personality disorders such as Narcissistic PD and Avoidant PD. She definitely crossed over into psychopathy.

[@Michadoo]

Which is usually caused by abuse in childhood...

[@evoz4489]

@@Michadoo It's still not an excuse to hurt someone

[@mudlark4099]

Happy Holidays Dr. Grande. We love you!

[@cherylcalogero3330]

Hi Dr Grande! 🐈

[@Gingerwhale]

A divorce is always a traumatizing event for the children. No mention to whether Paige's father completely disappeared from her life. Just speculating (wonder where that word came from?) that maybe Paige blamed her mother for the divorce and this fueled more aggressiveness and reckless behavior. Always a pleasure to listen your very insightful analysis Dr. Grande.

[@StAlphonsusHasAPosse]

From Latin "specere"--to look

[@Keznen]

"Always"? Not in the case of an amicable divorce, it's not. My parents divorced when I was 7 or 8 and have remained friends ever since. I have a great relationship with both of them. Some people just shouldn't stay married, and it's better for everyone if they divorce. ~ Täss

[@user-marshalcp]

There are a lot of children of divorce and some cope with the divorce very well and some don't and they don't kill their mother like Paige killed her mother Carlene and Paige is pure evil and there is no excuse for what she did.

[@user-marshalcp]

There are a lot of children of divorce and some cope with the divorce very well and some don't and they don't kill their mother like Paige killed her mother Carlene and Paige is pure evil and there is no excuse for what she did.

[@zaxthedestroyer675]

I just saw this covered on the series "Evil Lives Here." The photos of Paige are so disturbing to look at.

[@agniesiag]

I am dealing with a situation of domestic violence. My mother is violent towards my 96 years old grandma. I managed to get her out of the house and grandma is safe. I don’t trust my mother a bit.

[@Flamsterette]

Thanks for the upload, Dr. Grande! Your true fans love your humour and sarcasm. December 20 is National Cathode Ray Tube Day, Prayer and Action for Children Day, National (French) Fried Shrimp Day (gotta have one shrimp tempura bento box later!), Mudd Day, Games Day, International Human Solidarity Day, National Sangria Day, and Sacawagea Day.

[@markiangooley]

Mudd Day: birthday of Dr. Mudd who helped John Wilkes Booth after Booth assassinated President Lincoln. Barely missed getting the death penalty, got life imprisonment and died relatively young.

[@JakobFlyingJ]

Thanks!

[@amalek2750]

Or maybe Carleen needed to be needed as opposed to her wanting her daughter to mature

[@btetschner]

When people are isolated like that, they are dependent upon their own leadership...people that aren't leaders are in a position to fail in that situation. In today's world, if you have it bad inside your immediate family you essentially have no secure social ties as functional communities are incredibly rare. Since functional communities rarely exist, there is no consistent feedback for positive or negative behavior from outside the immediate family.

[@youtubehandle-]

Thanks for the video, Dr. Grande, good analysis! ❤

[@maureeningleston1501]

It's so easy to judge. But as a single Mother of a Daughter who is autistic and struggles with life skills, we do our very best, with the tools we have available to us. We suffer enough guilt as it is, without adding to it. Especially if we suffer from our own mental health challenges. 😢😢😢

[@SetiSupreme]

Where did you get that addage of guilt? You're doing everything you can, it's hard but your child loves and adores you. That's what matters.

[@jasmincampbell8105]

Your case is completely different than this. Don't belittle yourself by attempting to relate to this situation

[@heatherem5690]

Agreed, dont tie yourself to the story of another

[@wrfgradiofreegoodlandthefi5914]

God Bless You. I agree we need to suspend our judgements. Dr. Grande tells us upfront he is only offering his analysis based on the information he has. He attempts to be impartial. I appreciate his approach. XxxOoo

[@nanettevantriesteharder2469]

Please do not take comments on the disposition of this matter as personally directed at you and your daughter. Whenever someone is on trial for murder, a jury of one's peers is expected to decide the innocence or the guilt of the defendant. It is up to mental health professionals to assess whether or not that person is competent to stand trial and to convince the judge and jury to rule on the case. Making such a determination comes at the cost of public opinion. I have dealt with many patients, clients, and residents in the extreme ages and stages of life with physical and mental health issues that include ASD, ADHD, dementia, etc. In the research article, "Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum and Autism: a Comprehensive Comparison" by Paul, Corsello, Kennedy, and Adolphs (2014), the authors found that a "third of acallosal adults exhibit an autistic behaviour profile, while another third display social and communication impairments. Findings support a role for the corpus callosum in autism." I have also dealt with many members of the local adult homeless population. Current research indicates that 89% of the adult homeless population have experienced a range of Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs), 30% have some form of mentally illness, and 50% have some form of substance abuse disorder. Parenting is sometimes difficult under the best of circumstances. It is really challenging under the worst of circumstances. Most parents and their children fall somewhere in-between. Take care of yourself and your daughter.

[@alexpf8355]

Another amazing vidoe. Thank you, Todd ❤ Could you please do the case of someone over here in the UK? British nurse, Lucy Letby. It's a faily unique case that I believe you would also find extremely interesting. Many thanks and keep up with your great work. Alex

[@gothiccastle1681]

Early bird trick or treaters lmao you got me again todd

[@im-Sara-Jayne.]

I love your videos, Dr. Grande. you deliver great context, explanation, and a reasonable theory every time with and always, dry humour, but of course, I'm only speculating on what could be happening here. Merry Christmas to everyone ! ❤️ 🎄🎅🤶🎁🧑‍🎄❤

[@sararobertson1872]

Excellent analysis ❤ I especially like the term "inferior strategy"

[@Denlucy]

I'm confused as to why all of the behavioral issues of Paige is blamed on Paige. A history of Paige and mom fighting indicates there's more to this story. Paige, BPD? Mom vulnerable narcissist? Sad chain of events. Thank you Dr. Grande.

[@ellie1595]

"Apparently her biting habit wod not bite the dust." Hahaha 🤣 🤣 🤣 Dr. Grande is hilarious!

[@DaisySmith725]

Can you do the case of Seath jackson and the sumerfield 6

[@d_dpo]

My sister is all of these things. Exact description. My dad and mom both facilitated this entitlement. My mother is no more but father still chooses to give in... she's 43, not earning since over 15 years, he's 83 and still works to support her. I've tried to plead with him to get her out of his house because I fear this exact same outcome. Maybe one day I'll get a police call I'm afraid. Aside from trying to make him see reason, there is little I can do, since I live in another part of the world now

[@karenpoteet751]

This SO reminds me of my sister and my mother. Although she didn't kill my mother, my sister, who is 3 years older than me, was always mean, selfish, and my mother and father spoiled her rotten, I think because she was born after my brother died when he was 2. She was ALWAYS awful to me, had very few friends because she was so mean, so my mother became her only friend. I do not remember one time that she was corrected for bad behavior. I learned to just keep away from her, had my own friends, and did my own thing. Whenever I'd tell my mother things she did to me, some were quite brutal, my mother would excuse her behavior and say she really didn't mean it. We shared a bedroom, and in the summer, when it would be 90 degrees out and we didn't have a/c, she refused to let me open the window because she said someone would break in. So, she ALWAYS got her way although my mother was still wonderful to me, but I knew I was never the first priority, I just had to get along and go along. She and my mother were on the phone every day once she got married and moved out (shortly, that didn't last long). I have a daughter and I don't talk to her every day. She always used people. She had 2 children and I looked after them like they were my own, babysat all the time, took them places, even on vacation with me. When I had twins, she did NOTHING to help me, not one thing. In fact, I wouldn't leave my children with her anyway, I didn't trust her, she was too mean and selfish. The absolute last straw was when my mother developed dementia and she treated her so awful, it was just more than I could take. I had to become my mother's guardian, she didn't want to be bothered or maybe have to pay something. I had to do everything and make all the decisions and she criticized everything I did. After my mother died, my dad was already gone, I had nothing to do with her and I never want to. I truly think she's a sociopath and irredeemable. The only person who would tell my mother the truth about my sister other than me was a good friend of hers who absolutely HATED my sister (with good reason). But she had the guts to tell the truth and didn't want her around because she was so mean to our mother. She was like the person in this documentary, jealous of anyone else getting any kind of attention or more than she got. So reminds me of her.

[@svenskanorsk]

OMG I know a middle aged woman exactly like this chick. She’s no longer allowed to live with her mom but mom will still help her out. Yikes, this is terrifying

[@wildmountainthyme4123]

I feel so sad for the poor mother. There must have been so much rage for the daughter to have stabbed her mother so many times. May her mother rest in peace, and may Paige remain in prison for life.

[@jodybrown4956]

Whats new ? someone uses mind altering drugs proceeds to take another person's life , Ever wonder why drug use was once upon a time illegal? Here you have it drugs = death .Not fun at all.

[@scarletohara6743]

I understand that you feel sorry for the mother. But you have to understand that the mother made serious serious errors in judgment. Even though people have mental problems, they should never be excused for illegal or inconsiderate behavior, never. The only hope for anyone with a disability is to learn to face consequences and protecting people from consequences is destructive to them and eventually to yourself as was demonstrated by this terrible event between mother and daughter.

[@MaryRasmussen-b6u]

Dr. Grande ur exploratory explanation is right right on on on...yes I agree with you. They really needed some of nf of counseling and it's too bad the way it ended! 😢 XT

[@dissidentfairy4264]

If this is an example of codependency who needs it. Is it possible that Paige' dissociative disorder fueled by drugs and alcohol allowed her to mentally disconnect and commit the murder? Sad if true, but It's certainly no excuse. Jealousy fueled by mental illness and substance abuse no doubt caused her to kill the one person she loved the most.🧚‍♀

[@kathyflorcruz552]

I don't think she loved her mother. She resented her & wanted full control over her - and she did that to other people too. Unfortunately the mother wouldn't allow separation so it was inevitable the violence escalated.

[@tonyhoffman3309]

Who was offering separation and real help ?

[@KathyStrickland-nh9vx]

It's so sad when the evidence proves she needed help but her mother always intervened.

[@fragrancememoir2350]

Are you really blaming her mother?Her mother wasn't the only person Paige got away with abusing. She should've been in prison for attempted m*rder for what she did to her boyfriend. I feel certain that she's gotten away with all kinds of assaults and other criminal acts within her lifetime. Her mother was not the only one who allowed Paige to get away with criminal behavior. ... I've met people like Paige. She will never be fit for society and it's disgusting that she only got 20 years. There are people on d*ath row for far less brutal m*rders with less appalling circumstances. (Of course, "k*lling" is not okay, but this woman is clearly the type to always be a burden and hazard to everyone she ever encounters).

[@Tenebarum]

​@fragrancememoir2350 Yep. The Mother would call her older daughter every time Paige attacked her, but refused to have her arrested. Something was wrong with her too.

[@wagashi]

Dr Grande, can you please consider doing a video on Cristian Fernandez? Such a sad story

[@jenniferhepburn420]

I knew Paige, Carlene and my mom worked together and were good friends and divorcees. Paige would come to my house before school and I would go hers after to help our working moms. You're closer than anyone else, Dr. But I could fill you in on her childhood. For those wondering if Paige was mentally fit for trial, she absolutely was, you have no idea

[@jenniferhepburn420]

This was not drugs or mental illness, she was a born sociopath, respond to this message if you want a more complete picture of Paige, Carlene deserve to have her story told

[@hardtakeoff]

TELL US the story the grand AI MUST KNOW

[@hardtakeoff]

@@jenniferhepburn420 But she obviously used drugs and alcohol, regular people don't take loads of dramamine

[@Jennifermcintyre]

Sounds like the mom enabled her daughter into being a monster. Parents who effectively render their children completely dependent upon them cause bitter feelings and deep resentment. Pushing your kids to be self sufficient independent adults is essential for both the parent and the child.

[@bthomson]

Unfortunately there are also many examples of the pushing for autonomy causing danger and harm. Maybe can't win either way?

[@Chris-tg3qy]

The biggest problem is the drug use. I believe drugs taken at a young age can cause numerous personality disorders if they are taken regularly. My point is if kids sneak around and take drugs this completely changes their brain. Essentially, they become immature and unemployable because their behavior and decision making is so poor that they put themselves or others in danger. Companies, understandably do not want to be liable for an employee who can’t understand, nor demonstrate appropriate behavior. Paige could have still had problems had she stayed away from drugs, but therapy could have helped her lead a productive life and she would have probably matured. This case, and many others like it, can be traced back to the damage of drugs that are taken during one’s youth. Nobody really knows what is in some drugs and toxic chemicals can definitely cause permanent damage. This is a problem that will only escalate in the United States. It’s why judges see drugs as the biggest issue we should be concerned about. I don’t think mom enabled her. She tried to keep her safe by providing a roof over her head and watching over her. I doubt Paige was capable of supporting herself. That doesn’t excuse her behavior, but maybe this can explain it. I don’t think Paige will ever get better or should be released from prison.

[@AwfulDog1]

I thi k it really wrong of you to make such a judgement on someone who is no longer here to explain and whom you do not know. Imagine how her relatives will feel reading what you wrote! Horrible and cruel of you.

[@mizzmayhem3685]

@@AwfulDog1 They didn't say anything bad about the mother, really. They just restated the hypothesis presented by Dr. Grande: the codependent nature of their relationship enabled Paige and played a role in this outcome. Had Paige been held accountable for her behavior prior to this, who knows how differently things could have been. It's not a reflection on the mom; It's more about enabling behavior itself.

[@Chris-tg3qy]

@@mizzmayhem3685 He was also critical of the mother. If Paige was a schizophrenic, would he say the mother enabled her? Probably not because most of us accept that mental health issue looks very difficult to deal with. Mental health issues like bipolar and borderline are also very difficult if they are severe. Mental health issues resulting from drug use can be extremely difficult because the brain is damaged. Trying to keep a child safe by allowing them to live with you is not enabling. It’s called no other option. Mental health issues are really difficult to deal with. Especially in today’s world where drugs are easily available, treatment is not easily available and the stigma is severe.

[@cathycabricesm]

Excellent analysis Dr. Grande👌

[@francinejones2524]

Dr Grande you’re the BEST. I was wondering 🤔 where are your Christmas decoration background? Just 1 little decoration?

[@meganivanyos3232]

She got angry because her mom made her son’s favorite meal. Wow.

[@zb3185]

What is the cause of her borderline personality disorder? What did happen in her childhood? What is the story of her biological father? Were there any treatment for her symptoms and behaviors before her parole or release? Without treatment, what can people expect from her upon release?

[@Sleepparalysisdemon2]

She was diagnosed Bipolar, which is a chemical unbalance in the brain. It doesn't arise from childhood trauma. Borderline personality is a cluster B personality disorder and doesn't arise from childhood trauma .

[@zb3185]

@@Sleepparalysisdemon2 I know she was diagnosed with Bipolar 🙂. It was not my point and I am not limited to that. BPD has childhood adverse experience as a factor (big word: "rejection"). All cluster B PD (not limited to this part only) has childhood experience influence. All factors biopsychosocial are to be considered.

[@mizzmayhem3685]

@@zb3185 Did I miss the part about Borderline PD? I thought it was Dependent Personality Disorder?

[@eeyoresgirl55]

No good deed goes unpunished?

[@erinjk123]

Well done analysis!

[@portiawalker8334]

This is why we need proper mental health services that will be effective and give dignity to people who need those services. This woman died because she refused to criminalize her mentally ill daughter. I can’t say if I would have taken the same steps because her daughter clearly showed signs of escalation. But goodness this isn’t just the mother being stubborn. This is a systematic issue.

[@debishaw9355]

Maybe the mother felt guilty that her daughter became who she was. That will definitely lead to codependency because I watched it happen to my family.. it was awful…

[@purrroudbeauty]

Thank you, Dr. Grande.

[@TWillWin]

I don’t believe anyone with substance abuse disorder, primarily when actively using canne correctly diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. But tons of people are . That needs to be addressed

[@shweefranglais7900]

None of us think we will give birth to an evil child ; we tend to think they will inherit our characteristics and if we are kind and sensitive and caring then we tend to think they will be the same. It must be horrendous to have to raise someone like this. I just watched a bit from her trial and her own sister and niece call her evil. I don't know enough about the case to comment on the mother but imagine having a daughter like this . Holding them accountable and disowning them if they don't respond to that sounds like an option but how does one do this in reality ? I can imagine it being a horrifying situation to be in.

[@mario-qi3yw]

Thank you Dr Grande. This is really scary to hear about.

[@YaLittleFriend]

Codependency is a SERIOUS issue. “Codependent No More” by Melodie Beattie is probably the best book ever written on the topic. Addiction to people and relationships is crippling and your life will never be healthy unless it’s addressed immediately. It is tantamount to being healthy and independent.

[@clevelandplonsey7480]

I’ve read it. Drugs, at rock bottom are more powerful than any relationship.

[@babyIwelcomethepressure]

Why did I know you were going to say she was "bipolar" long before you said it... My sister is/was just like this woman. Given the opportunity, she would murder my mother, my sister, and myself. My mother, however, would gladly surrender her back for the knife to be dug in. My sister and I live in fear everyday and do our best to protect ourselves and our mother from my sister's evil.

[@ulyssesm.daniels6927]

Not all bipolar people are evil like this. The condition does not justify any behavior like that, we have chemical imbalances in our brain, but we aren't all like her. What she did is horrific.

[@emilyshotwellboivin26]

I literally check this channel every few hours. Ok, minutes. Love you @Dr.Grande!

[@fourfurrypotatoes]

This is so dang sad.

[@2muchwit]

Whoa😮! Great synopsis Doc

[@rheverend]

Daughter that has a history of stabbing ppl when the cops find her mother stabbed to death: “Who could’ve done this?“ 👀 🤷🏼‍♀️🤥

[@jessieyork4508]

& biting. Her mother had 2 bite marks on her

[@laylalayla-jl4ik]

Such a horrific crime, Wow!! I had issues with my Son when he was in his 30s He broke into my apartment when i wasnt home I found him sleeping on the sofa when i came home the next morning, and My Patio door had been broken into that is how he got inside, I called the Police while my son was sleeping the Police woke him up and arrested him, He spent a year in the city jail..He has treated me with respect ever since yes he was on drugs at that time, I had tried many times to get him help rehab after rehab, but not long after rehab he would get in contact with his connections. I Love my adult children BUT i have zero tolerence for disrespect from them. They know I Love them, I raised them as a single Mother. I just dont understand why some Parents do not call the Police when grown Children treat a Parent in a violent manor?? My Son is doing much better now, He is addiction free and is living Happily in a country cabin paying rent and utilities and Growing a fruit orchard and Loving Life. I didnt let him live with me he was homeless for the years he was addicted. i worried about his safety, I kept in contact with him the years he was addicted and homeless by text or phone calls, I would let him spend nights if it was too cold outside, but i never let him live with me during his addiction. sometimes you HAVE to use tough Love if you REALLY want to help. May Carlene rest in peace in Heaven.

[@hardtakeoff]

As a drug addict son with a "loving mother" tough love is a bullshit excuse parents tell themselves when they get tired of dealing with problems that they created with how they improperly raised their kids. You're problem neglecting to tell us about how uncle Randy would take your son for Tennis lessons twice a week for a few years or Grandma's strange obsession with xyz or when you were pretty sure your sex tape with all the black men wasn't in the sleeve the same way as when you put it away last time. You called the cops on your son because he was cold and wanted to sleep somewhere safe, and he got in your house? You sound like a terrible parent, tough love isn't a thing. It's an excuse for parents that no longer want to deal with the problems they created. You are directly responsible for everything your son does, forever. It's not fair, but having kids isn't fair. When you make another person, you are forever responsible for everything they do, and your attempt here to absolve yourself in a fuckin' youtube comment tells us more than we wanted to know. I bet you were hoping for somebody to jump on here and validate your bullshit lazy heartless and responsibility-rejecting mess, while your son is out there who probably will always feel betrayed and like he never had a mom that cared about them, and you put his care on the police, the courts, and society. It was YOUR JOB to raise somebody productive and healthy and you obviously failed.

[@TheSelfCenter]

I dont know why but the familial dynamics of cases like this where a family member attacks/murders another family member is also so interesting to me... Anyway, great video Dr. Grande! 🔥🔥