Tokka and Rahzar: The Replacements - TMNT Movies

[@maeburekaiser]

I just want to say that the second film did not *need* to be more kid friendly. I was 6 when i saw it in theaters and cried when i thought Splinter was dead. I had lost my father just 3 months beforehand. The way they showed the grieving processes and the relationships between the brothers and with Splinter was helpful to me in a way i cant really explain. Kids are not immune from pain, grief, loss, and the horrors of life. They go through it too. Films and shows for a kid audience that deal with hard subjects are extremely helpful in learning how to process these experiences for a child.

[@dubuyajay9964]

I hope you are doing ok. My father is probably in his final years and Parkinson's is pretty hard on him. I am wondering how I will deal with his passing. I could use your wisdom in this matter if you are willing.

[@teruienages962]

Well then blame the mountain of parents who complained about the first movie until they had to bend to the criticism.

[@surelooksresourceful6032]

Part 2 was my favorite. Besides not all parents want their kids watching it. I didn’t want my kids watching it until they were older

[@NikolaiVolkovski]

I’m sorry that happened and am glad you found solace in this beautiful art, but the second one was also bomb af, just a much different feel. I enjoy both and watch them to this day

[@ziltoid420]

I'm sorry for your loss.

[@doublea9482]

I was so upset when TMNT 2 didn’t have Bebop and Rocksteady. We got the wish version instead. Over the years I grew to like Tokka and Rahzar. But when I was a child I was pissed.

[@TheBaldr]

Totally the same.

[@NikolaiVolkovski]

same 😂 it felt cheap and like we got jipped

[@Cazz8203]

as a kid when this movie came out, I remember feeling catfished, because the trailers clearly implied we were gonna get bebop and rocksteady. they only showed a scene of tokka and rhazarrs hands breaking out of their cages, and we all freaked out. and then.....meh .....I still like the characters they created for the movie. it was fun at the time, but not what I was wanting to see. which is why I loved the out of the shadows movie.

[@Hack_Man_VII]

I still wish we got a city wide battle between the the Rat King's rodent army and Baxter Stockman's Mouser robots.

[@KasumiKenshirou]

Yeah, that would've been much better.

[@midwestmonster9886]

_"Nya! Master say have fu-un!"_ *"FUUUnn! Yeehehehe..."* Frank Welker must've looked like an absolute madman in the recording booth.

[@terrysyvertson9205]

frank welker has been the voice of fred jones on scooby-doo since the very beginning and took over voicing scooby-doo after the original voice of scooby-doo died

[@emanueljackson1728]

He's a cool dude too. I've met him in person.

[@tyronleung5276]

He's also the voice of ray stanz in the real ghostbusters claw from inspector gadget the mogwai / gremlins Stripe & Mohawk

[@KasumiKenshirou]

It would be impossible to list all of Frank Welker's roles. Pretty much any time you hear an animal in a movie made in the last several decades, it's voiced by Frank Welker. He also did the voice of Spock screaming in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. (Spock had died, was resurrected as a child and then rapidly aged. So Welker was playing a younger Spock.)

[@LiberalPeaceKeeper]

Also, Frank Welker is the original voice actor for Darkseid.

[@F13fan]

As a kid I wanted to see Bebop & Rocksteady in live action.(they were the only good thing about Michael bay tmnt) But now I understand why we didn’t get them. I was however glad to get new characters as a kid. Tokka was my favorite and I’d say he’s still one of my favorite characters. I liked seeing him in the games & toon as well.

[@TMNTTHECONTINUITY]

I love Both Bebop and Rockstady as well as Tokka and Razhar

[@biguy617]

I wish they didn’t write off Casey Jones. They don’t even mention him in the movie or what happened to him. They just pretend like he didn’t exist.

[@psilva2462]

This was the oddest part of the sequel especially considering it's about 2 days after the events of the 1st

[@meerkat1954]

Having Casey again is one of the reasons why I think the 3rd Turtles movie is still far superior to the second, even if the turtle suits got a bit of a downgrade.

[@colorsafebleach5381]

​@meerkat1954 but Casey was basically a cameo in Turtles 3.

[@biguy617]

@@colorsafebleach5381 yeah he does nothing in Turtles 3. They could have done more with the character

[@PnC_GameZnThingZ]

I've had that Tokka for 2 years and never knew his eyebrows were articulated 😂

[@arbysnow6228]

Same here. I had to pause the video to check for myself. Too cool!

[@kevinthomas4239]

Even as a kid I never like the 2nd movie compared to the 1st. The humor was there, but not allowing the turtles to use their weapons made it a little boring for me. Plus the whole "babies" thing didn't really do it for me.

[@MellowFellow.247]

Frank welker did voices to almost every kid friendly cartoon and movie and live action show from the 1960s on up 😃

[@BetterThanDoomWithAZ]

It's clear that they're 2 separate guys, but I think I'm more comfortable pretending that the guy who wrote backstories for Bebop and Rocksteady also wrote iconic music for a gorilla riding a swordfish.

[@tardiscommand1812]

Who knew they’d eventually get the greatest action figures of all time in collecting.

[@TheBaldr]

Being 10 years old in 1991 I was upset that it wasn't Bebop and Rocksteady.

[@nathanielhernandez3584]

I really hope they show up in the next animated movie I remember secret of the ooze being the first turtle movie I watched and I specifically love tokkas design I think he looks cool

[@gskate117]

The scene where they turn back to regular animals is the funniest scene in the movie. The dog being forced to sit next to an attacking snapping turtle.

[@DecepticonScout]

I love TMNT! Especially the live action movie.

[@srstriker6420]

I would prefer both

[@isaiahedmonson5832]

There is a crossover between bebop and rocksteady and Tokko and rahzor in idw comics and its awesome

[@sammylane21]

I wonder just how did Razar know that the cube was bad for him? Pretty intelligent if you ask me.

[@TheTurtleNexus]

Acute sense of smell

[@jayb8934]

The irony is that this movie was supposed to be more "kid friendly" than the first, but Tokka and Rahzar really scared me as a kid! The violence in darker tone of the first movie didn't bother me one bit.

[@dimethedude]

The second movie would never and could never be as good as the first But maaaan, I was so obsessed with this movie when it came out Sure it’s not as good as the first But I still love it

[@gavinsiville9969]

I think it would be cool if Bebop, Rocksteady, Tokka, and Rahzar were all one team and were like an evil parallel to the ninja turtles similar to Wario and Waluigi

[@bdr113080]

When I was a kid, I really loved both the first two turtle movies, now that I’m older I really don’t care for the second one that much. It’s cringe as an adult I still love the first one. But I always wonder what was the need of replacing bebop and rocksteady. I mean it paid off later on because we got video games with all four evil mutants in them so the other two got to exist in the same universe least

[@Chrisyork21]

As a kid I was so upset they did not have bebop and rocksteady in the second movie

[@markula_4040]

I was 14 when Secret of the Ooze came out. Me and my friends hated Tokka and Razhar and were pissed for more than it just wasn't Bebop and Rocksteady. Razhar looked stupid (Tokka wasn't too bad) with those big eyes that just made him look super fake. As time went on they became more accepted but I HEAVILY dispute that they were fan favorites from their debut.

[@DaveGraw]

i believe its pronounced “ray-zar”

[@johnegan5721]

Tmnt tokka and rahzar ultimate mutant warriors for the foot clan an alligator snapping sewer turtle 🐢 and grey wolf 🐺 are on the hunt for the turtles, I would love to see more in both the tmnt idw series in future storylines animated mutant mayham series and new live action series in upcoming events. In the immortal words of ice ice baby go ninja go.

[@mikemoss6045]

I liked tokka and rahzar. Kind of like a precursor to bebop and rocksteady.

[@cbsketch1]

That my be true but they were all fan favorites they gave them love ❤️ and time 🕰️ and they characters developed an art styles and abilities and everything got better in time like wine 🍷 they never gave up on them like other give up when there’s pressure they were freaky and misunderstood but valuable nonetheless but they didn’t now they diamond 💍 and franchise a jewel submit it in the industry 🙌❤️🙌🍑

[@crownedgambit]

The cutest brutes ever

[@YooperHatesOhioState]

Wish it was bebop and rocksteady but this movie is still great

[@DontrelleRoosevelt]

Sometimes, the detour ends up being just as fun!

[@Ironstarfish]

How hard would it really have been to add a rhino and pig

[@johnpittsii7524]

Thanks for the amazing video ❤

[@carlosrodriguez-di3bs]

I still have these action figures

[@tyronleung5276]

Apparently Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman saw eye to eye on how to do the turtles and they hated the idea of including anything from the cartoons like dimension x the technodrome bebop rocksteady news reporter april and strictly wanted to make the turtles movies about the mirage continuity characters & storylines bringing in baxter stockman the t.c.r.i aliens aka the utroms the mousers the shredder worm clones triceratons fugitoid but kevin eastman later lighten up about adding in more mutagen gimmick characters and abandoned the turtles to go run heavy metal magazine and his failed tundra comics start up that dark horse and image comics would buy up all his properties

[@oshikuru09]

4:19 "well you're the last one aren't you?"

[@1ButtonDash]

kids were pissed when it wasn't Be-Bop and Rocksteady. I know I was... but they ended up being decent characters

[@dakotawinston7677]

Great video. Thank you

[@deontaeferguson3876]

Was Baxter stockman supposed to be the professor really?

[@TheTurtleNexus]

And an Utrom.

[@GShumway132]

Even as a kid, they felt like K-Mart knock offs.

[@teruienages962]

The specifics of their personalities doesn't keep them from being rip-offs. They were created to serve the same narrative function in a movie without actually being those two characters. That does in fact, logically make them replacements.

[@AlphaProto]

It looks like Groundchuck is an older character than I thought.

[@grantorino2325]

As long as you're on the subject.... .....why did they rename _Baxter Stockman_ "Jordan Perry"? Was that also an ownership issue?

[@TheTurtleNexus]

Technically yes... but... the creators wanted Baxter to be in the film and be an utrom. When the studio tried to go for a Fred Wolf inspired Baxter, they probably needed to change the name to avoid conflicts and, very likely, to save Baxter for a future movie. I'll cover this bit in the future.

[@sammylane21]

I still don't like Razar's "Freddy Mercury" 'stache.

[@JustinJordan-vm8ff]

Secret of the ooze is the Greatest

[@angrycheeto6464]

BABBBIESSSS!!!! THEY'RE BABBBIESSSS!!!

[@Caine7ify]

Funny thing, COMMON snapping turtles are much, MUCH worse than alligators snapping turtles.

[@jakeproven256]

We can't be certain that Kevin Eastman agreed with Peter on the whole Bebop and Rocksteady thing, because all these statements are from Laird, Eastman isn't saying anything. Peter Laird is someone who I don't trust or like at all given his bad writing in comics and more importantly, his opinions. For all we know Kevin dosen't agree with more than half of the stuff Peter says, and peter just includes kevins name in the argument just so everything seems "professional."

[@TheTurtleNexus]

I'm pretty sure Kevin has the same opinion because he has talked about this in interviews. In any case, it was more a question of royalties than anything else.

[@DeLaCruzProductionz]

……. Didn’t we see these guys on Wrestlemania?!!!

[@monkeyplnktn]

This was just a recap of the movie. Everything about this hurt me.

[@hattoripool1533]

Did Tokka and Rahzar ever appear in the Mirage Comics?

[@tyronleung5276]

None of the mutanimal mutagen gimmicks like bebop rocksteady tokka rhazar krang technodrome dimension x the rock soilders newtrinos professor rockwell pigeon pete jennika leita venus armagon verminator old hob alopex ninjara slash mondo gecko ray fillet wingnut screwloose dreadmon gengis frog jagwar etc introduced in the (87 toon, mutant meyhem movie, the playmates toyline, or archie adventures series tmnt comics based on the 87 toon, the Konami video games, or idw comics tmnt *) were never in the Mirage and Image comics tmnt continuity. the mutant animal gimmicks came from the "paladium" role playing books tmnt other strangeness after the bomb etc that the franchise would homage in the 2012 show and idw comic and create all these anthropromphic mutant animal characters that got the license to make merchandise off of mirage tmnt some of the information in those role playing books are canon to mirage whilst others isn't such as the name utroms came from the palladium rpg games when in mirage they were called simply t.c.r.i aliens the name krang or kraang is something exclusive to the 87 show making all the t.c.r.i aliens / utroms a single character named general krang, native american super heroine radical appeared in those books as a white woman as Hazel McIntyre but her official mirage name is Raven Shadowheart for example and showed concept art for designing your very own tmnt knockoff. the only mutants made from the radioactive t.c.r.i. sludge in the mirage universe where the turtles themselves Leonardo Raphael Michaelangelo Donatello, their sensei splinter, their ally and enemy leatherhead who was the utroms first experiment with the ooze, the guest era non canon blood sucker the mutant leech who bit Raphael and drank his radioactive blood combined with old man river reversing Raphael's age back to a pre mutated baby turtle in the river trilogy by rick vietch of swamp thing, and the shredder elite worm clones that were created from the foot mystics black magics and foot scientist splicing the exploded remains of shredders body with earthworm genetics to ressurect orroku saki seen in leonardos micro series.

[@tyronleung5276]

The mirage tmnt, the tmnt splinter and leatherhead are the only mutants born of the t.c.r.i ooze. in the image universe lord go komodo is a human that can shape shift into a komodo dragon and uses splinters mutated blood to make his brothers and himself completely human and they create a shark mutant that gets killed and tales of the tmnt vol 2 mirgae made shredders final form a shark mutant that casey jones kills off

[@just1morejonjr]

Tokka is definitely strong enough to just bust through the street, and just go around the manhole 🤔

[@msscott22]

Bebop and Rocksteady are superior. There's just something very charming about them. They act super tough, but then are complete cry babies in clutch time. It's hilarious.

[@nunyabizness6376]

Rock steady and be bop not being there RUINED part 2 for my 10 year old mind

[@jamesvitale6666]

The first ninja turtle movie was really good but when they did Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles two secret of the ooze, it was not that good then when they did Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles three it was horrible however, I have to say when I did the remakes of the ninja turtle movies. They were much better except last ninja turtle movie they did that was terrible. They need to remake a live ninja turtle bring all the characters back from the 80s

[@DM006]

I can understand why they had to create them. But for me they remain wasted but above all avoidable characters. Again in my opinion there was no need for another mutant turtle. Slash was already there.

[@greenkoopa]

This is much higher quality than my video but I love the tmnt movies (not 3) Because they're all very different and set the stage for the era they occupy Seriously why is tmnt 3 so BAD 😵‍💫

[@YooperHatesOhioState]

I find 3 a lot more enjoyable than bays movies

[@asif80]

That's why it was boring then the first n did no where near the same business as the first

[@tyronleung5276]

Also why wasnt "the shredder elite aka the shredder worm clones four armed shredder, midget shredder, and lobster claw shredder " used in the secret of the ooze instead of "bebop rocksteady tokka and rhazar or super shredder who was wasted " these mosters were heavily apart of the return to new york storyline the first film used? the shredder clones are underrated they killed zog in the comics and revealed the shredder they were fighting was a creature himself. Both the 2003 and 2012 show wasted them and gave that feat to ch'rell shredder in season 2 and had them get washed by a ferral splinter . Also why didnt they want to use baxter stockman and his mouser robots?

[@mitchfletcher2386]

Probably because it would have been near impossible to recreate that in the early 90s.

[@tyronleung5276]

@mitchfletcher2386 I disagree cause there's no excuses when we had master pieces such as the batman 89 and batman returns come out in that same year of the 1990s film was in production and secret of the ooze was in production and we just had ghostbusters and gremlins break the mold when the mirage tmnt comics came out in that year

[@tyronleung5276]

@mitchfletcher2386 they used the return to new york saga the first parts of issue 2 and parts of the third issue and raph and leonardos micro series as the skeleton and made it an after school special

[@Animeloversonicfan]

The 2012 show was absolute pile of pig crap and the original is massively overrated, The 2003 show is the best one... oh and Rise was just wrong.

[@Rendezman562]

worst in the series!!!

[@Azuris190]

I love that they all four are in Turtles in Time on the Super Nintendo.

[@greenkoopa]

I like turtles 🐢

[@fallenwolf3368]

My foot my foot

[@cfhcowboy9292]

Big apple 3 am

[@aliastheabnormal]

BABIEEEESSS! YOU GOT ME, BABIIIIEEEESS!

[@stevenrobinson9856]

Arrrrrrghhhhh!

[@ultimatepayne5816]

Actually Perry made them mentally BABIEEEEESSSS!!!!!

[@JurassicRod]

As great as it would be to have seen practical Jim Henson effects for Bebop and Rocksteady, I'm glad we got new characters in Tokka and Rahzar. As a kid I always wanted new characters to get toys of. Not the same characters over and over.

[@IntheL1ght]

I remember being disappointed that Bebop and Rocksteady didn't make it in the movie but then Tokka and Rhazor grew on me to where I was happy they made it into the show.

[@zacharyseidling89]

Same here

[@srstriker6420]

I like the second movie and of course they were fun to watch, too bad that Professor Perry wasn’t an Utrom because that third movie was disappointing and boring.

[@JurassicRod]

I agree. The third film should have continued the story of TGRI and revealed Perry and the company to be Utroms.

[@JanetStarChild]

Personally, I like that the Movie universe is the most grounded iteration of TMNT; it made TMNT feel very realistic and plausible. So, I'm glad that the series never went into the sci-fi route. And yes, I know that the 3rd movie establishes that magic is real, but I generally exclude that movie from the Movie-verse canon.

[@cammy85]

The third movie was indeed more kid friendly than this one, but it was also loosely based on another older comic story; so at least it has that going for it. Th season 7 episode Legend of Koji handed the feudal Japan time travel better.

[@Cazz8203]

as a kid when this movie came out, I remember feeling catfished, because the trailers clearly implied we were gonna get bebop and rocksteady. they only showed a scene of tokka and rhazarrs hands breaking out of their cages, and we all freaked out. and then.....meh .....I still like the characters they created for the movie. it was fun at the time, but not what I was wanting to see. which is why I loved the out of the shadows movie.

[@jaykoblue172]

Personally I prefer Bebop and Rocksteady, but Tokka and Rahzar are ok.

[@raymondtillotson6985]

So most agree that Ninja Turtles 2 was a major step down from the first, but Tokka and Rahzar (and, yes, the Ninja Rap) still make it rewatchable.

[@JanetStarChild]

I think both movies are great and valid; they're just different. It's like the Alien series; the first movie is horror oriented, while the second movie is action oriented.

[@raymondtillotson6985]

@@JanetStarChild The only difference, I can actually still enjoy Alien 3.

[@JanetStarChild]

@@raymondtillotson6985 Personally, I hate the third movie for flipping off the perfect ending of the second movie. I watched Alien 3 once and never again; fuck that movie. I prefer Alien: Resurrection over it. Yeah, it's stupid, but it's also fun (much like TMNT2).

[@YooperHatesOhioState]

Seen it 6 times in the last few weeks. Same with 1 and 3

[@emilio1316]

One is a better film but I have more fun watching part two. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@IntheL1ght]

Yeah Frank Welker was Rhazor!!!! The evil of Megatron and goofiness of Scoobie doo. Tokka too awesome!

[@WaldoBagelTopper]

Meh. It was gay. I've grown to appreciate Tokka and Rahzar. But even as a child, I understood that it wasn't normal that Bebop and Rocksteady didn't come to exist in the movies. Kids don't care who owns what. We didn't care that Bebop and Rocksteady as we knew them weren't in the original materials. THEY introduced Bebop and Rocksteady to as we knew them in the cartoon, and that's what we wanted to see. It was a colossal miss on the part of the movie creators as they rushed through creating TMNT 2 with the same fervor and zeal of a jewelry store smash and grab. No weapons. No karate. No Bebop and Rocksteady. As a day 1 fan from the cartoon fandom and beyond (didnt know the original source material until I was an adult because there was no internet back in the day) I will say that TMNT 2 ONLY holds a place of respect among fans from my generation SOLELY due to nostalgia. The 1990 movie was a masterpiece in tone, action, and grit. Kids handled it well. It grossed the most money made for an independent film at that point. And well... the movie creators just listened to the 2 or 3 people who actually complained about it being violent. To hell with the actual fans. That's how it always is. Just look no further than what marvel/disney is doing today.

[@caucasoidape8838]

Even as a kid, I thought the cartoon peaked after the original pilot, and was obsessed with what the Konami arcade games did with them.

[@FireMadeFleshII]

I still remember the disappointment of expecting Bebop & Rocksteady and getting Toka & Rahzar. As a fan of the series, the arcade game, & the first film, we got to see almost all the main characters actualized. Bebop & Rocksteady, of course, didn't make the first movie, but there was enough going on that their presence wasn't essential. However, I was sure they'd make their debut in "Ooze" & I recall feeling cheated by the reveal

[@abrahamthebewildered1448]

TMNT 2 was a mistake on almost every front. If they had continued to pursue a model closer to the comic book, it would have been 1000% better. Eliminate the two new mutants and the movie would have bombed like crazy. People were just crazed to see new mutants... Any new mutants. I men, the special effects were pretty decent for the time.

[@TroyBaugh-wu7ek]

These were the "but we already have Bebop and Rocksteady at home" versions of the characters. Like your mother told you, they're just as good as the real thing 🙄

[@ArtietheArchon]

i always pronounced them Tokka (Tock-uh) and Rahzar (Ray-Zar)

[@ultimatepayne5816]

It is pronounced REY - ZAR, The Shedder said it and so did Leonardo and Prof. Perry

[@PerfidiousAdrian]

"Stupid babies need the most attention" Oroku Saki aka Shredder

[@andyclegg1038]

Why didn't they just use a rino and a hog instead of a wolf and a terrapin?

[@kayla0002134266654]

the second film is unbearably bad; hated it as a kid

[@sammcfarlane2494]

I love both Bebop and Rocksteady and Tokka and Razhar.

[@elloowu6293]

I can't even picture beebop and rocksteady as a huge puppet costumes like the turtles

[@bofa83]

0:32, no, the parents wanted it to be more silly. Just like ghostbusters 2.

[@tyronleung5276]

Why couldn't they just stick to the mirage comics source material

[@emanueljackson1728]

They should have, but most people knew TMNT as an 80's cartoon.

[@tyronleung5276]

@emanueljackson1728 the cartoon was trash pass the pilot first season only the kids born in the late 80s to 90s knew it as a "cartoon" the real fans knew it as a gritty young adult comic book parody of frank miller and Jack kirbys work

[@nicholasbennett7367]

Because Hollywood people think they know better

[@nicholasbennett7367]

@@tyronleung5276the cartoon was great. That and the first movie were staples of my childhood

[@AngryStraightWhiteMale]

@@tyronleung5276nice gatekeeping

[@paulschaefer5485]

Well done. Very informative

[@colorsafebleach5381]

Yeah, as a kid, I always wondered why it wasn't Bebop and Rocksteady. As always, it comes down to legal issues. Another character I wondered about, is Jordan Perry. Was he supposed to be a knockoff, Baxtor Stockman? Wonder if it was the same legal issue with his character.

[@TheTurtleNexus]

He was pitched to be Baxter Stockman, and an utrom. But at some point they decided to create a new character, more in line with the cartoon's Baxter. However, Jordan Perry could have technically been an utrom as well, who knows?

[@colorsafebleach5381]

@@TheTurtleNexus interesting. Seems weird if he was pitched to be a Untrom, since this move was to be more like the cartoon, and most kids wouldn't know about them.

[@TheTurtleNexus]

@@colorsafebleach5381 That was the creators pitch, the studio did whatever

[@PaddyMcMe]

It's such a shame that the 2nd movie got dumbed down for kids. Even as a child when I went to see if I know it was inferior to the first film. And as an adult there's not a single TMNT fan who prefers 2 over the original. Honestly the animatronics alone were incredible in the first film, it felt like a real movie. All that said, I'd still take TMNT 2 over the entire Michael bay franchise of TMNT movies. If you're going to make them ugly make them REALLY ugly, if not then make them look cool like in the original film.