Tokyo Tsukiji Market Review | Pocket Board Game Series - Part Three

#boardgames #review #pocket
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[@Churro_Douglas]

I once taught root to a new player by giving them the lizard cult and sitting to the right of them as the woodland alliance. I watched joy spread across their face as they realized that they could destroy my base and completely undo my turn every turn of the game. They had a great time and said it’s their new favorite game. So while that was a successful teach, I was reminded that when a rulebook just says “determine a random starting player and go clockwise,” they are turning your kitchen table into a minefield where how much fun you have is determined by where you plop your ass.

[@domgrindncrank]

There is a fan made expansion on bgg that gives variable turn order, overcoming some of the issues you described

[@zezze5136]

The Kickstarter expansion resolves this in two more elegant ways.

[@domgrindncrank]

@@zezze5136 do you know how?

[@Zaubrer488]

Hey I’ve been wondering, where are the other three videos? I really liked the recommendations so far and would love to get introduced to more tiny games.

[@middleclassjoe]

Thank for the review. I might be one of those people that’s gonna love this game. Glad to read in these comments that there are already variants to address turn order issues on BGG.

[@domgrindncrank]

There is an interesting interview with the designer, jordan draper, that gaming rules did. Gives an interesting insight into his influences and philosophy of game design, worth a listen

[@rysiuvg6168]

This is an awesome game and there are ways to mitigate the issues mentioned. Might not be your cuppa, certainly is mine :-)

[@Morchunkis]

How would you recommend fixing those issues?

[@rysiuvg6168]

@@Morchunkis If you scroll down further in the comments, a contributor called Major Johnson basically covered it

[@SamiPaju]

Loved the review! Especially the criticism. Will be interesting to see how the upcoming expansion will change things :) Really looking forward to getting my hands on them.

[@Illusionator]

Ooo “Stay Together” 12” with the extended version. Niiice. Lovely review too 😊

[@majorjohnson8001]

So if the guy to the left of the person fishing is getting all the fish, then he doesn't have any money. *Don't buy his fish and giving him more money.* Instead, wait for him to go broke buying the first player's fish, then when the guy to the left doesn't have any money...buy the first player's fish yourself. If you're the first guy in this scenario and the player to your left is buying all your fish, spend a turn or two doing something other than fishing: do something with all that cash he gave you that doesn't give it back to him: buy fish from other players, visit the markets, get a bigger boat. At 11:44 you said that the person directly to the left of the player "doing all the fishing" is "buying and selling, buying and selling." If they're selling...there's fish for everyone else to buy: it doesn't matter that they bought up all the fish the person "doing all the fishing" because *they're also doing some fishing* (otherwise they aren't selling, are they? And if they *are* selling, then there ARE fish available for all the other players (funny how that works)). The only time it really falls apart is if every player goes nearly broke and you have an auction-fish available. Its very easy for one player to end up with most/all of the available cash, then buy their own fish, and crash the entire economy. Getting money *back* from the bank is slow and tedious when no one has *ANY* money (and may involve one player repeatedly visiting the mackrel market and selling two barrels of mackrel just to give everyone 100 yen). And don't be afraid to buy a fish at a price worth more than its Resource value. If the seller doesn't have any money, buying a fish from them for more than its worth still nets you *some* points AND it gives them money to buy fish back from you. The more the cash changes hands, the better off everyone is.

[@z-beeblebrox]

But...player 2's not broke because they also just sold all those fish they bought...

[@draco18s]

@@z-beeblebrox That entirely depends on the available markets in play. And if its one of the fish types that's inherently sellable on its own...switch to a different fish. Not every fish can be sold. Stop feeding him. The last game I played I was the player "doing all the fishing" and I won with *136,000 yen.* Why did I win? Because *I* was the only one fishing (and I refused to buy mackrel, the only thing the player to my right was fishing, he'd just take them to the mackrel market and get his 50 per barrel) and people kept buying my fish (mostly red snapper). I couldn't end the game on my own because I had all of 11 R worth of fish.

[@zezze5136]

@@z-beeblebrox 2 player becomes zero sum, and not interesting, as do most economics games. There is an expansion that offers a better experience for 2 players and also fan made solutions to the 2 player conundrum.

[@z-beeblebrox]

@@zezze5136 That's good to know!

[@velderak1458]

"Why fish fish?" I didn't know how brilliant this phrase was until it was said.

[@blackjack2150]

9:27 The player who last drank water goes first. Haha, almost spilled my coffee when I saw that.

[@HenryRSeymour]

Tokyo Metro is my favorite game in this line, but this one is really good as well.

[@CapriciousMissK]

Thank you! I played this at a friend's house a while back and could not remember the name. Must order it before I forget again.

[@Table53]

Sounds like the game needs a random turn order, or a bidding mechanic to have the next turn

[@majorjohnson8001]

It exists, actually. One of the community added "market" locations is a place where you can go (and maybe pay money?) to change the turn order. I've seen it on TTS, and while the designer has noted it as "being an interesting idea" they're concerned that it adds too many components. boardgamegeek.com/thread/2363838/turn-order-market

[@zezze5136]

The Kickstarter expansion resolves this in two more elegant ways.

[@zezze5136]

@@majorjohnson8001 The main issue with the fan made turn order market is that I could take the action to change my turn order and a player after me could effectively undo my action.

[@nikvernon4251]

Wow, great review! I'm convinced that its not for my group but facinated by what the game is

[@mohre5911]

We decided to use turnorder rules from glenmore II. The one who earned the most in one round is going last the next round etc. This way the turnorder changes every round and you decide on which position you want to land. In GM II the one who goes the most steps is last.

[@user-fx9lv9fr1c]

I feel like my freshnes decreas too :) Thank you for the great review)))

[@kanedafx]

I have the same problem with Container. You can lose because an opponent misplayed and someone else got to take advantage ahead of you because of turn order.

[@AhJong0]

A fascinating game to look at, thanks NPI!

[@redsands1001]

I just bought tinned mackerel yesterday.

[@NoPunIncluded]

You'll probably get most of your money back if you sell it in the secondary market. Less so if you opened it.

[@luigiscazzari4724]

Lovely review as always. :) When can we expect the next instalment in the Arkham Horror LCG series? I just bought the Dunwich Legacy expansion. Was it a smart idea?

[@TheDragonsTomb]

*7 episode arc

[@NoPunIncluded]

oh no

[@2101super1012]

Did part 4 ever drop?

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

"... here's the catch". You will need to remove that pun.

[@christophermoore8524]

Love your shirt.

[@mrshikad]

I have a game called Tsukiji with the same thematic so I was very confused

[@SClarkPharmD]

The auction game with amazing, vibrant art? I love that game. I may make sushi this weekend and play it.

[@nicholasliew604]

Will you guys review Tokyo Metro as well?

[@jaredk.6185]

The group that I play this with regularly is made up of a stock trader, one person with a physics professor, an engineer with a a hard core gamer (me), and a police officer. We love it but it does take the right people and it has its flaws (two player is terrible). Also we play at a very slow pace and make jokes as we play so while we are cut throat matematically and strategically we basically use it as a way to gather together. Games for us are usually 3 hours plus. We love it but it is not for everyone.

[@mahna_mahna]

Off-screen Elaine Comments are *always* funny.

[@TheSludgeMan]

You could give pax transhumanity or emancipation a go in this series. Its mind-boggling that a 4.23/5 weight game comes in such a tiny box.

[@RadishTheFool]

I see on BGG that this game can be played by two players (although it isn't recommended). How would that even work?

[@chadnoneo9769]

Same way but the issue is there is not enough outside forces and makes it very predictable. Me and friend had some ideas for how to solve 2p but after the designer kinda blew us off, twice, we kinda lost interest and just started playing other games.

[@SolviKaaber]

Unfortunately my local game store has 5 other games from the same Tokyo line but not this game.

[@jacob-da3956]

I would check the designers website jordandraper.com

[@AlephN]

Is this available anywhere in Europe right now?

[@jknifgijdfui]

so since the series is dead what are the other 2 games you were planning to review but never did

[@davidriemaker]

Didn’t the actual Tsukiji market close down last year?

[@DieJG]

Yeah, but only the market. The stores with amazing food are still in Tsukiji market.

[@zawadi9949]

I don't understand quite how the buying player gets all the points. What happens if Sir Fish-a-lot prices their fish at let's say 90% of their value. If the eager buyer continues to snap up the barrels, shouldn't the fishy player win? I think the criticism is valid either way, I am just slightly confused about the rules.

[@NoPunIncluded]

Resources are also money at the end of the game. If I sell a fish that's worth 10 for 9, the buyer spent 9 to get 10, and I got 9 in exchange for 10. They're one up and I'm one down.

[@zawadi9949]

No Pun Included Wouldn’t you be 9 up? I thought fishing was free, but when I consider it it would be weird if anything was free in a game like this :P

[@NoPunIncluded]

@@zawadi9949 it's technically free but to fish effectively you have to invest a lot of money and actions. It would be like saying "this thing you made in your factory is free cause it didn't cost you anything."

[@zezze5136]

@@zawadi9949 You have the right idea though. Very roughly, If I sell you a fish worth 8 for 400 yen, I get half the profit and you get half the profit. You get actions for free and fishing actions get fish for actions alone. We both spent actions to fish and purchase respectively, but I had to invest in licenses and boats where you just get to sit back and buy the fish of my labor. In NPI's example it of selling a fish worth 10 for 9, that is massively in the fisher's favor. That is what you can get if you don't have competition in supplying fish to the market. NPI's criticism is fair though. If every other player blows all their money on boats and licenses, the last player can just sit back, buy fish, sell for a profit, hold on to some fish for the end game, and just blow everyone out of the water. The fish sellers have to be savvy enough to see that coming and react, which often doesn't happen because everyone tries to undercut each other. Disclaimer: I absolutely love this game and I am one of the people that this game appeals to.

[@zawadi9949]

Zez Ze I see, thanks! That makes sense. Also forgot about undercutting, which further messes things up. Pretty sure i’m also squarely in the target audience for his game, but it does look kinda brutal, lol.

[@JorWat25]

So, what happened to the Tussie Mussie review?

[@NoPunIncluded]

We had to pull the series because it was significantly underperforming in comparison to the rest of our videos. People don't click as much on small games!

[@JorWat25]

@@NoPunIncluded Ah, I guessed as much. Shame...

[@fishizer]

What pocket does that fit in??

[@NoPunIncluded]

Easily fits into my bathrobe pocket.

[@fishizer]

@@NoPunIncluded well that’s fair

[@ElionMars]

...5000 yen is just $50.

[@majorjohnson8001]

Yep, everyone in TTM is poor.

[@dylandog1289]

100-900¥ is like 1-9$......is this game set in the 1950’s?

[@mylor1066]

Yeah, well, you don't like mackerel then.