Tom Holland: Why Jesus’ crucifixion changed the world

Historian Tom Holland explains why the Christian idea that God suffered the death of a crucified slave fundamentally shaped the West’s concepts of human dignity and equality.
This is an extract from The Big Conversation between Tom Holland & AC Grayling. Watch in full: • Tom Holland vs AC Gray...
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[@maximusatlas9377]

I agree with Dr Holland actually. While I don't label myself a theist I am also not an atheist yet after studying Roman and Persian history I just cant seem to escape Christianity as a root to my foundation in my life. I think that the story of Jesus is much more important than just a religious view but as a strong Political foundation to society. I find Jesus to be a rather interesting historical figure to study even if I was raised agnostic. He is a strong pillar to Western society.

[@DerekHowden]

he is who you want him to be and then he reveals himself

[@etc6615]

May you open your heart to the love of Jesus this new year ❤️💕💓🙏🙏🙏

[@StoccTube]

Infinite Rome I suspect you’d benefit from a few Christopher Hitchens videos to prevent the risk of you falling into a human sacrifice cult.

[@maximusatlas9377]

@@StoccTube I actually own all of his books 😀 So its funny you mention that. Hitchens was a really interesting person though as a grew older I think I learn to disagree with him in some of his points. I don't have the same anti religious views he had so im not much of a fan anymore. Still he served a purpose as a grew up. I just don't think he covers many of my personal doubts in philosophy or history as other people have. I respect the him but in not the same teen I was years ago. I have many questions he doesn't cover that well. Still thanks, Happy New Year.

[@StoccTube]

Infinite Rome I think I’m growing in the opposite direction, stay safe out there and please avoid those “mind forged manacles” 👍. Happy new year.

[@zakariyarazi8247]

Jesus is the King. The only King.

[@holypurewhitelight8449]

Thank you

[@zakariyarazi8247]

@@holypurewhitelight8449 Why thank you?

[@holypurewhitelight8449]

@@zakariyarazi8247 watch my videos, I only have 2

[@jakeschwartz2514]

@@holypurewhitelight8449 You are in the New Age. It’s a very dangerous place of demonic oppression, I hope you realize it

[@holypurewhitelight8449]

@@jakeschwartz2514 I’m the light of the world

[@poeticalgore6500]

"Death is the last weapon of the tyrant" - NT Wright

[@poeticalgore6500]

@William Oarlock Wow, you need to get laid big time

[@sik3xploit]

If anything it's their only counter-argument to dissent.

[@jerryg3524]

in this video Tom Holland is so articulate and eloquent, I'm a bit envious hahaha! great discussion thanks for video

[@biggregg5]

Low standards

[@tecumsehcristero]

@@biggregg5 I assume you're speaking of yourself

[@biggregg5]

@@tecumsehcristero Poor assumption. I'm unsurprised.

[@mattcorregan4760]

@@biggregg5 So what is not articulate about Tom Holland's statements? Have you done extensive research into Greco-Roman civilization and 1st century culture and how it relates to historical accounts of Jesus and the crucifixion? Do you have anything of substance to add?

[@biggregg5]

@@mattcorregan4760 Actually, he is articulate and eloquent, but just a very poor critical thinker.

[@zarqashkhan969]

Crucifixion explained really well. God Bless u sir

[@terryp3034]

Simply fabulous interview!

[@gianlucarossi5672]

Jesus was not a slave, but a carpenter and a teacher with growing number of followers. He lived in a country that was occupied, invaded by the Romans who didn't tolerate anyone who questioned their authority. Christ was crucified because the Jewish establishment and the Roman who were anxious of revolts saw him as a very dangerous man who poses a threat to their rule. From Christian perspective however, Jesus was the Son of God, the lamb who was scarified to redeem the world. He died on the cross, crushed by the Romans only to later rise from the death full of Glory.

[@timothywilliams4089]

He was not a carpenter, he was an electrician....

[@sophrapsune]

Brilliant and true, thank you.

[@biggregg5]

So it's true that truth doesn't matter. Irony.

[@a.t.6322]

@@biggregg5 How did you come to that conclusion?

[@biggregg5]

@@a.t.6322 His first sentence

[@terrigreen100]

Thoughtful and persuasive

[@smsog2236]

Endlessly enthralling.

[@Skavar4000]

Where are the AC Grayling clips?

[@kaloarepo288]

The Christian message is a very radical one -just examine the words of the "Magnificat" prayer (said by the virgin Mary after she was given the news she would be the mother of the Christ) "he has torn down the mighty from their seats." The Christian message is also unrelentingly on the side of the poor and downtrodden and critical of the rich and powerful.These ideas,though often submerged,were in the fullness of time,to reemerge time and time again even among people who didn't realize where they came from in the first place.

[@20july1944]

Is your family name really "Arepo" as in the famous Sator square? S A T O R A R E P O T E N E T O P E R A R O T A S ("Farmer Arepo it is that operates the wheels").

[@kaloarepo288]

@@20july1944 No -it's not my real name -I originally went on to KZbin to view opera clips -I'm a great fan of classical music and arepo is opera backwards and kalo is (approximately) the Greek word for "beautiful" but your crossword "thing" is interesting and a co-incidence!

[@20july1944]

@@kaloarepo288 There is also a Christian hidden meaning to the Sator square but I don't remember how that works. Maybe check Wikipedia.

[@clarekuehn4372]

Brilliant! 😍

[@Frederer59]

I feel this is the best recitation of his intellectual development. As I say so often, thanks to Tom, Terry Eagleton, and Jordan Peterson we are on solid ground of a post- anti-theist era. Just in the nick of time.😊

[@publius1252]

@@lerayonvert7534 Go on. If you can.

[@dougyohooglefrogtownrovers9017]

He's not saying it's true though,it's more complicated. He's just saying it shaped our culture, end of, but it's been replaced. Whether it's Buddha, Christianity or liberal left wing,it's similar ideas. But we don't have to start going back to church, It's in you already, it's just the recognition of the complexity.

[@timothywilliams4089]

@@dougyohooglefrogtownrovers9017 It certainly missed me then.

[@timothywilliams4089]

Clown, Jordan Peterson is a self absorbed manic delusional bullshitter who takes 500 words to say absolutely......nothing of any consequence. You need to take a long hard look at how religion contiues to blight the world.

[@DerekHowden]

the mystery is you find yourself in eternity

[@davidw4987]

To employ the cross as the symbol of Christianity is the greatest piece of marketing of all time. Instead of representing cruelty and oppression it has come to stand for forgiveness, compassion, charity and so on,.

[@corinaijac4381]

and the conclusion?

[@johndeoliveira8476]

The crucifixion you see love, mercy, just, evil and victory. If you’re blind to the truth all you see is a man who died for none and no reason and ultimately it’s just meaningless.

[@bazstrutt8247]

John Oliveira it only seems meaningful to other Christians. It is indeed meaningless to other religions and to non believers.

[@johndeoliveira8476]

Baz Strutt yeah we believe there’s a double meaning to it plus the fulfilment starting from genesis 3:15 and thousand of references about Jesus Christ.

[@johndeoliveira8476]

Sticky Steve I can’t be asked to argue but I’d disagree.

[@randomuser6306]

@Sticky Steve an old and thoroughly discredited assertion that goes against all available evidence. Even Bart Ehrman concedes that Jesus was crucified and his followers believed he was alive afterward, and held onto the belief and die rather than deny it and live.

[@20july1944]

@Sticky Steve Would you really like Christianity to be true? I don't think you would.

[@nashwalker7]

They all were overcome by Death. If Jesus is real, he is the only one to have overcome it.

[@holdontoyourwig]

7:18 How do you get from a man who was crucified to this ?

[@mattcorregan4760]

To what?

[@gkoymnbxykfb]

"The idea that someone who suffers the death of a slave .. turns out to be the creator of all". That's how the first christians viewed the crucifixion of Jesus.

[@holdontoyourwig]

@@gkoymnbxykfb It was the way that he said it. So nonchalant.

[@braydynniewiadomski5454]

The Holy Scriptures.

[@corinaijac4381]

we have the demonstrate our fortune...

[@publius1252]

AC Grayling knows he's in the presence of someone who'd eat him for breakfast intellectually. He sits quietly in awe. Can't blame him.

[@timothywilliams4089]

On the contrary, Grayling is simply being polite.

[@ManForToday]

@@timothywilliams4089sure, but Tom would and did demolish him on any historical subject. ACG is just a New Atheist, a nice philosopher, but a terrible historian and even worse political observer.

[@timothywilliams4089]

@@ManForToday How would you know, Grayling never said a word., and what the hell is a new atheist?. The problem with xtian historicity and accuracy is just that, it is vague and relies on hearsay. There must have been so many peole called Yeshua, and some might have been crucified, but son of a god nonsense is simply a claim and as such is an assertion,...mainly by xtians. How would you know that Grayling is 'a terrible historian, and worse political observer', you don't.

[@ManForToday]

@@timothywilliams4089 Because I've watched the whole thing twice... now you're just spouting New Atheist garbage that no relevant scholar in the field of history takes seriously. That's how I know Grayling is terrible at history because as Tom points out, Grayling is just regurgitating modern myths that are 200 years out of date. He's a lousy historian because he gets the basic facts and timeline/narrative so wrong. He's not just an atheist but an anti-theist. He positively doesn't want Theism to be true.

[@timothywilliams4089]

@@ManForToday I repeat, what is 'a new atheist', an atheist is simply that, one who does not believe in a god/s, and 'relevant scolars' in the field of history, do you refer to an historian per se or a theist scholar?, there's a vast difference. Additionally, Grayling doesn't want theism to be true?, so what's wrong with this position?. You're obviously a theist, and so believe in the supernatural, which has yet to be proven, and there is no conclusive proof that there was a particular Jesus character of the bible stories, and how the hell could a myth be out of date, a myth is just that, a myth. There is no relevant evidence of your Jesus outside the bible, and as he left nothing tangible at all it remains a story.Talking of garbage, you appear to be the expert. Theism is complete bullshit, relying on hearsay, wishful thinking and delusion, and god is a theistic trick.

[@corinaijac4381]

*to

[@charlesrae3793]

I have often said that instead of a cross, we could have an electric chair, or a guillotine or any other means of executing criminals. Then we would see the true scandal of Christianity, instead of a too familiar symbol that has been leached of any meaning.

[@johnschuh8616]

The Nazis killed millions but relatively few of their victims were subjected to the anything as awful as crucifixion.

[@petergregory8864]

Grayling is not impressed. It would seem.

[@biggregg5]

I'd love to know his thoughts.

[@20july1944]

@@biggregg5 I'd love to know why you lied about being a psychiatrist.

[@SSJCyan]

Anglican explains why Tom walked away

[@hugofernandes8545]

The question is: Jesus really Rose from the death? If Jesus'resurrection is a historical event (as I believe it is) so christianity is true and Jesus is really the promissed jewish messiah and God incarned, the Eternal Creator and sustainer of the entire Universe. If Jesus'resurrection never happened christianity is false. It is as Simple as that. The values are something secondary, what really matters is if it's true and I think all the evidences from diferent backgrounds points to the veracity of the Bible and christianity. Jesus'resurrection, his miracles, healings, exorcisms, apparitions afther death, ascencion into heaven, his fulfillment of the ancient Jewish prophecies and his way of life and teachings proves that he is much more than just a historical figure out a prophet. He is God himself in human flesh, the omniscient, omnipresent, all powerfull, trancendent, Eternal Creator and sustainer God of the Universe. Christianity is a religion based on historical figures, real events and real places that are visited by thousands of people every year and where there are archeological excavations. Moreover archeology supports the Bible. Jesus' apostles were persecuted, arrested, tortured and martyred because what they said they saw, heard, touched and witnessed.

[@timothywilliams4089]

That's acres of complete bullshit there; you are simply making claims and assertions, and all without evidence.

[@fromthewrath2come]

Many innocent people were crucified. It is the resurrection of Jesus that changed everything.

[@donaldreed2351]

There's something horrific about the crucifixion of Jesus. God decreed that Abraham raise his knife against Isaac, but stopped the bloody sacrifice before it happened. When the cross was raised against Jesus, He didn't stop it, but apparently thought it was necessary. Apparently, killing the "scapegoat" was fine and beautiful, so long as it was meant to "saves the world".

[@20july1944]

Don: Remember Jesus volunteered for it, and He knew He would be raised again to our eternal gratitude -- so although it was certainly terrible while it was occurring, Jesus already had His eyes on the prize.

[@marcionvonsinope1615]

You may want to check out Marcionism for another explanation.

[@Win5ton67]

​@@marcionvonsinope1615 Marcion was a complete heretic who forced his gnostic worldview on Holy Scripture.

[@vatsmith8759]

Wow, he suggests that people are strongly influenced by the culture they grow up in. Who'd have thought it?

[@AJ_Jingco]

Damn I thought it was the Spider-Man actor.

[@corinaijac4381]

enharritage

[@brianellinger6622]

The thing is it took so long. and so many people watched it. and no one did anything about it. . Lol.... 👹🤣

[@heroldable]

What is this??? It is crap!! Please, prescious soul; do not listen to those who only cares for money..., and possibly their own fame and glory. Jesus is Lord! He's the creator..., the author of history. ......, and if you have'nt noticed: He is about to finish it. If you seek truth: Read the gospel of John, the acts and pauls epistle to Romans....., and pray, in Jesus' name, that He (The most high) will let you understand His word.

[@daithiocinnsealach3173]

How do you know these things to be true? Divine illumination? How can your he certain that the truth you believe God speaks to your heart is really from God? You can't. You just read it and it makes you feel good and gives you hope and then you spend your life defending it.

[@loisirsentertainment5919]

@@daithiocinnsealach3173 When I read "IN my name, they (that believe in Me) shall heal the sick", then I went to church, heard a voice telling me there was a man with kidney failure (right kidney) that needed healing..., and I came out, took the mic, spoke about what I heard, and the man's daughter came out saying her father was the one (a man I had never met, and an information never knew), then we prayed from a distance for that man, and he got healed and this was medically confirmed... Now you're free to not believe this story, but I tell you brother, I don't just read these words, believe them, then defend them all my life... I have experienced it.

[@timothywilliams4089]

Yep, its all in that repugnant book you read, and similar bullshit can be found in the q'uran.

[@biggregg5]

I suspected he'd have nothing of value after he said it doesn't matter if a god exists. I was right.

[@biggregg5]

@buymebluepills For someone to essentially say that it isn't important if you live under a delusion is stupid....full stop. He just talked rambling nonsense after that. He poisoned the well in his first sentence.

[@20july1944]

Of course it matters if a God exists, Holland is a nitwit if he indicated otherwise. He's a typical academic pussy who sees the truth of Christianity but wants to hair-split to avoid sounding like a Christian. It's similar to the cosmologists who know they're lying, posing pieces of shit but it's still a paycheck and peer esteem.

[@biggregg5]

@buymebluepills Yes

[@20july1944]

@@biggregg5 Your opinion about God's existence is no better than anyone else's -- you don't know and you know you don't know. If you're really an MD, you have an obligation to avoid causing harm -- so you should emphasize how little you know on the "God" issue.

[@biggregg5]

@buymebluepills Definitions can be confusing....I think an illustration would be better. If you and 20july1944 post pictures if yourselves, and get everyone to look at them. The definition of delusional will be well understood.

[@amac9044]

How can we say something changed the world if we can't even confirm it actually happened?

[@sfdint]

Because it did change the world. And how do you confirm to modern scientific standards anything of a supernatural nature? The fact that it DID change the world and brought about a revolution in values would tend to confirm that it actually did happen. Not prove, but at least point in that direction.

[@amac9044]

@@sfdint Jesus' crucifixion itself wasn't supernatural in nature. But, regardless, it's not the problem of the skeptic to provide a means for you to prove your claim...It's YOUR claim so it's YOUR responsibility to come up with a reliable way to prove it.... I reject your premise that Jesus crucifixion brought about a "revolution in values"....humanist values long predate Christianity or ANY religion for that matter, but regardless, even if I conceded that point, that wouldn't qualify as "proof" or even evidence that the story actually happened. The story of the little boy who cried wolf may have brought about a revolution in overall worldwide honesty but that doesn't mean the events of the story ever literally occurred. At best, all we can say is that the STORY told in the bible had a significant worldwide impact/influence.

[@emale03]

Many words; few ideas

[@daithiocinnsealach3173]

Christianity changed the world. No doubt. But that isn't the evidence one needs to show that it is literally true in its metaphysical and theological claims.

[@ic.xc.]

Yes because Jesus rose from the dead otherwise those disciples would not have gone out to all nations to baptise them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And die for what they believed in. Nobody dies for something they _knowingly_ know is a lie.

[@theace3164]

hatter00 you fail to realize that the 12 apostles were COWARDS before when Jesus was arrested they all fled out of fear. They gained the boldness to go into the world and preach the good news after they saw Jesus rise from the dead again. Not only them of course Jesus brother James who was a non believer became a believer after Jesus came to him. Same with Paul who use to persecute christians but then became a believer after Jesus visited him. You’re telling me they were all delusional?

[@poeticalgore6500]

@@ic.xc. I'd say Jesus didn't rise from the dead but was resurrected...he was changed. Lazarus was raised from the dead. Jesus was resurrected.

[@memememememe515]

@hatter00 you think a virgin can't give birth? it's actually very possible and it happens .... rarely....for sure..... but it happens.......

[@poeticalgore6500]

@hatter00 I suggest you read the bible. I am not making a large claim. I am saying according to the bible Lazarus came back from the dead but he would die a physical death (again). Jesus came back to life but he did not die again. As far as if you believe what the bible says is true or not I could care less. I am just saying ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE.

[@captainzappbrannagan]

You are again making assumptions and stating them as fact. The title should be the story of Jeebus dying for people and how it changed the world. There is no proof of this even as a man.

[@20july1944]

Is your atheism based on science?

[@bdoucet4061]

The fact the the man Jesus existing isn't even up for debate. All all historians say he existed. Education is important if your going to comment.

[@captainzappbrannagan]

@@20july1944 It's based on the lack of evidence for fairies. You don't inject magic when there is zero evidence for any. I am an agnostic atheist because reality.

[@20july1944]

@@captainzappbrannagan What is your explanation of the big bang?

[@captainzappbrannagan]

@@20july1944 It involves your mom so I'd rather not trigger you any further. Unlike stars that have existed billions of years my time is limited. Just say I don't know = god and be done with your unintelligent speculation.

[@mickqQ]

So did Hinduism, Buddhism , communism , facisim , racism , Judaism ..... so what

[@yiqingwang1437]

Isms can't save you. only the true living God can.

[@mickqQ]

Yiqing Wang Which god?

[@yiqingwang1437]

@@mickqQ God of the Bible. He lives

[@mickqQ]

Yiqing Wang Which version of the bible ?

[@mickqQ]

Yiqing Wang Which version of the bible ?

[@pissanukatika3720]

Actually there is no crucifixion of prophet Jesus but a crucifixion ofJudas Iscariot who was arrested by the Roman soldiers instead of Jesus.(Gospel of Barnabas )

[@Ryan.gambill23]

Pissanu Katika whoa, got any evidence to back up that one?

[@miguelbinha]

What a foolish thing to say... Drank that from the "religion of peace"?

[@ic.xc.]

Haha where does it say Jesus is just a prophet outside of the Quran?

[@samsonrodrigues7942]

Is your mother stupid too. Quranic crap the only book in history that denies the crucifixion! Roman historians testify to it, Gospel writers, atheist also testify to Jesus's death. An a false prophet comes along 600 years later and says no. Allah waits 6 centuries later to point out the mistake. Give me a break. Quit being a Moslem and join Jesus the Son of God

[@henrik_worst_of_sinners]

Pissanu Katika This idea comes out of an early gnostic heresy called Docetism. This error is very early and it is what St John the Evangelist argues against in his Gospel. Jesus’ favorite apostle who saw him be crucified and was the last apostle to die testifies against the claims of docetism and all its derrivates like the one in the Quran etc etc. Meditate on that. Islam integrates docetist ideas and several other heresies into its doctrines. Read St John of Damascus who lived in the late 7th century for an early review. To over simplify a bit Islam is basically Arianism 2.0 or 3.0 if you count Nestorianism as 2.0 (Prophet Mohammed used to hang around nestorian monks from which he got many of his ideas).

[@TonyMontana-nm5uj]

this man doesn't have a clue what he's talking about

[@sfdint]

Huh?

[@deanodog3667]

The jesus of the gospels didnt exist , period !

[@codyehmke1218]

deano dog do you know anything of historical evidence.

[@deanodog3667]

@@codyehmke1218 there isnt any that's the point!

[@rontimus]

You're a retard. (and I'm not even religious)

[@deanodog3667]

@@rontimus explain??

[@rontimus]

Listen what he says about the topic, I’m not going to get the info for you, look it up

[@StoccTube]

KZbin 2000 years from now... “How Harry Potter defeating Voldemort changed the world!”

[@timothywilliams4089]

Or fighting over 'star wars'....

[@otokwulajeremiah4134]

Laughable, you need to do better in citing possible future assumptions. You make comments without considering that rational people are also here to read. Possibly overestimating your reasoning power.