Tom talks with Shiv about sacrificing himself | Succession Season 3, Episode 3

[@SeriousPony]

That's the moment when Tom died and Nerosenberg was born. Vince is a genius

[@phoenix15_]

Bravo Vince 😅

[@huseyin2093]

Jessseeeee

[@santividal9387]

Yeah, Succesion bich!! Yeah Mr Roy, let's cook some ATN

[@thekid8832]

Tom being the scapegoat doesn't even work. "I'm sorry your honor nobody in the family knew except for my son-in-law who got a nepotism position decades after the facts"

[@maplelu9514]

Exactly!! he wasn’t even in the company till recently and that shit has been going on since the 90s how does that work?!

[@namedidii]

"Tom Wambsgams is the culprit, even though when it happened he worked at S&P and had a flat top"

[@olgil]

Wasn't it because he was the one that actually decided to shred the files? The main culprit was dead at that point but Tom was easiest to blame for the cover up.

[@namedidii]

@@olgil Well, yeah, but they never got around to "killing" Bill

[@dosman3458]

@@maplelu9514 I think the reason he would go to jail is because of the coverup and not the actual crimes. Same thing with Watergate...the coverup was prosecuted worse than the crime itself.

[@sgtlamancha805]

"And what evidence do you have for that?" Tom, brother I almost feel for ya

[@Suiter]

That was Shiv's last test and she failed it terribly. Maybe Tom will join Kendall, maybe he will strike out on his own, but I think he's finished with Shiv.

[@neesonnaidoo4745]

Another life is possible brother

[@shop-a-holic3194]

I think Tom realize is true possition in the familie now and will use the found boxes of information Greg found against the whole familie. There is a scene from this episode he offers Logan to be the fall guy. At the end he walks away speaking to someone about information or something.

[@alainportant6412]

I don't know kid, he seemed pretty happy to score points with logan. Shiv was horrible to him in the last episode so I think right now he just wants to assault Cousin Greg.

[@armacham]

How did she fail? She gamed it out that it might be a "smart" play but she repeatedly told him not to. Tom is the one who failed a test.

[@alainportant6412]

@@armacham She is just toying with people. She is a woman so there are biological limitations to her power, and the show demonstrated it quite clearly by showing her being side-lined by frank and the top execs, when she's not purely used for her boobs.

[@jmalott96]

Shiv isn’t the worst person on the show but goddamn her scenes with Tom are fuckin rough. Actually makes me pity Tom

[@Model-Trask]

@@stupididiot6993 People seem to wilfully ignore all the worst shit she does. Very strange.

[@hollymc33]

@@stupididiot6993 as bad as ken? she’s so much worse.

[@kinare1853]

@@hollymc33 didnt he commit manslaughter

[@ethidian3444]

@@kinare1853 A car accident where you flee is no where near as morally reprehensible as Logan's manipulation and control. Even in the manslaughter incident, Logan covering it up for Ken to use him as a puppet is worse than Ken fleeing the scene and pretending he wasn't there. Logan is pretty close to pure evil, and he has fun making everyone's lives worse and apparently destroying the environment, covering up crimes, some now beyond reprehensible. Shiv and Roman are a lot nastier than Ken, who is the most emotionally out of place sibling-though Connor is the most intellectually and aspirationally out of place.

[@ethidian3444]

I will say of the siblings Shiv does seem the most intelligent by a decent margin. And she has some decency in her, even if she buries it more and more. If she comes around and turns on Logan she could do some good.

[@suncore598]

You can hear the breaking of Tom's heart towards the end.

[@samanthab1923]

I thought they were done last season. On the boat vaca he sat on the beach telling her he doesn't like the way she makes him feel.

[@Mopark25]

1:46 You can see his heart break, fucking amazing acting

[@idea1istic]

i actually think it starts at @1:34 at first Shiv seems sympathetic. playing it off as him being drunk but her turn at 1:34 is where you see his mood change.

[@Mopark25]

@@idea1istic I think it's still sinking in at that point. Incredible range of emotions on display here, you feel so bad for the guy, as much of a scumbag as he is

[@teribradshaw-milling3164]

And then episode 7 - Kendall birthday party - he realizes that she isn't even happy or care that he is not going to Prison. That is why he gets so depressed when Greg starts talking about being in love with most perfect girl--he realizes Shiv doesn't love him.

[@michaeldeloria8220]

Rhea - “Shiv isn’t as smart as she thinks she is”

[@EJD339]

I feel as if Shiv is probably smarter than all of her siblings but she overestimate herself. She can play politics but she's out of her league when she goes to the company. That's just my opinion of course.

[@motjon]

@@EJD339 Shivs issue isn't that she isn't smart, but that she underestimates the intelligence of others and is overconfident in her abilities in areas she completely lacks knowledge and experience in. She has entitlement issues and doesn't seem to understand that respect and power are earned because she has grown up in the shadow of her father and this was evident in season one when she attempted to negotiate with ATN about her initial political candidate whose husband was caught in a sex scandal.

[@EJD339]

@@motjon wow. That's a great breakdown of her character. Thanks for sharing your insight!

[@akashreddy2928]

@@motjon I think the other scene is the "Prague" episode where Logan meets Shiv and Shiv says she is smarter than the other siblings" No smart person says he/she is smarter than others. They usually say what they know and what they need to know or learn in order to achieve their objectives.

[@P2501-y6u]

@@motjon She's also bad at hiding her true feelings and is super easy to read. Pretty much every character has had a moment with her where she lies to their face and completely fails to sell the lie. She relies on people liking her and wanting to believe her, but she doesn't know how to handle people she can't trick, and she's not enough of a puppet master to keep all her lies in line.

[@BatmanHQYT]

"And either way, you bank gold with my dad..." Oh Shiv, how correct you turned out to be!

[@miseendriste6337]

this comment didnt age well lmfaooo

[@BatmanHQYT]

@@miseendriste6337 Yeahhhh no it didn't 😂Tom at least got a few months of being a Disgusting Brother out of it though.

[@justinsayswtf]

@@miseendriste6337Turns out it did after all lol

[@ivermektin6874]

@@miseendriste6337 Making assumptions before the season finale always a bad choice

[@jcf2322]

All of the kids have pretty damning flaws, but Shiv's shortcomings strike a nerve because she normally seems like the most level headed one of the four. Like there are times when you think Logan has been overlooking Shiv, and maybe you think she overcompensates to win him over, but then you realize she's actually very much like all the others. Perhaps even worst, because there's a part of her that genuinely seems to know better. Another title of this episode definitely could have been S3.E3: The Fall of Shiv.

[@iamtheruraljuror9257]

Shiv isn't capable of genuine feelings. She has this kinda fake "woke" mentality that put me off a bit. That scene in season 1 where she accuse Gil Eavis for putting up a fake appreciation is just... blergh to me. I'm like sheeesh can this woman tone her suspicion down a bit and maybe sometimes people are genuinely appreciative?

[@mikaelaisraelsson119]

I don't think she's like the others. Kendall and Roman are cutthroat because they've been raised to think they have to be. But Shiv is really just that cold, it's who she is. She's the one who is truly Logan's child in the end.

[@jcf2322]

@@mikaelaisraelsson119 Fair. The fact that none of them were willing to sign the letter says something. I think Shiv is ultimately more like Logan than the rest, because Conor is a joke, Roman is a man-child and just loves sucking up to her dad, Ken is just delusional. I think Shiv wants her father's approval, but if she doesn't get it she out of all of them could be pushed to actually stab him in the back in a way Kendall never would. Which actually might make Logan love her more.

[@xxfgsdfgadgsgsrgfdsg]

Wow

[@ArtemisScribe]

@@jcf2322 none of the others were willing to sign the letter because they weren't the ones humiliated by the prank. All the Roy kids take turns lashing out at each other. Shiv felt wounded by her brother so she lashed out at him. The other brothers didn't sign because he didn't do it to them. They're in this vicious cycle of hurting each other and then standing back and just watching when someone else is the victim. Which makes the events of the Season finale even more tragic since they finally supported each other and found themselves victims of the cruelty of everyone around them instead of each other. The finale shows us how they became the people who have spent 3 seasons hurting each other for petty reasons, because it's the only way they know how to survive.

[@chiefinasmith]

I think Tom was testing to see if Shiv and Logan would let him take the fall. I think Tom is going to have a major role in the downfall of the Roy’s. It seems he’s finally realizing that Shiv doesn’t give a fuck about him.

[@majiriotoboigboegwu7438]

😁

[@madduxnagel6935]

Ding ding ding ding ding

[@hcave8825]

OP was on the money with this one 😂

[@jarrednorris]

well played

[@kena.8003]

And this is when Tom decides to become Nero - figuratively push Shiv down the stairs and align with Sporus (Greg) and probably Kendall in the process

[@melj.7408]

now that's great foreshadowing!

[@kena.8003]

@@melj.7408 it's such a well-written show

[@Nooneimportant21]

‘But it is smart’. What she said there broke his heart. Hope he takes them all down

[@twg7074]

lmao

[@biggyls4297]

He did . Woooh

[@concernedspectator]

This was the moment that Tom became an omelette

[@ColeJ_23]

Cant make a Tomelette without breaking a few Gregs 😛

[@CJStew06]

1:17 it's almost like Shiv's reaction is jealousy as it hits her that Tom might have something her Dad wants-granted, it involves sacrificing himself, but the end result is the thing she and the other siblings are always chasing.

[@supermodelwannabe]

not y'all expecting Shiv to be the decent one among her family. I truly believe she's the most ruthless and coldhearted one.

[@hothotheat3000]

Damn, Shiv really doesn’t see how awful she is.

[@englandsensation]

She is so horrible to him. I really want Tom to go rogue.

[@colombusoho2741]

I really wonder how dıd these two got together

[@terminologicalinexactitude]

@@colombusoho2741 Power dynamics. Tom's part of that 1%er world but not born to it, which belies a built in power imbalance. She relishes the dominant/powerful role in their relationship and Tom more willingly takes the passive/subdued role. Based on her "daddy issues" c/o Logan, I assume she greatly prefers it that way in terms of her relationships with other men.

[@igoralekseyev3347]

@@colombusoho2741 My impression from snippets of dialogue back in seasons 1 and 2 was that Shiv and Tom started dating when Shiv was going through some difficult times (maybe a breakup), Tom genuinely loved her and supported her through it, and Shiv (because like everyone else in her family she's emotionally stunted) confused her gratitude for love. She then kept dating Tom, either out of a mistaken sense of affection (read: gratitude), or because she's wanted to cling to someone she knew wouldn't leave her.

[@wiseauserious8750]

Agreed. I want Tom to go Gregue

[@portigoza]

uh he did!!!!

[@peterschubart854]

Was that a test by Tom to see if Shiv rly cares abt him?

[@neesonnaidoo4745]

Literally what I was thinking. I know he was drunk, but I think he'll remember this

[@xtxpxhx]

He did offer himself as bait to Logan after this... But I don't know he's acting sketchy I wouldn't trust him 😅

[@rewmnog]

I think it was a test but he may have told Logan in hopes to get on his good side based on how Shiv reacted and it looks like it may have helped

[@innerDialectic]

@@rewmnog he did the same test with Logan to see if at least he would defend him. When he didn't he called a different lawyer at the end of the episode.

[@rewmnog]

@@innerDialectic Aaaah that's really good thanks

[@buttonman6262]

Shiv is definitely the killer that Logan told Kendall he wasn’t.

[@Joy61720]

“Honey, you’re drunk.” Yes, honey is DRUNK.

[@maplelu9514]

Shiv irks me because there’s nothing behind her at all, she’s a shell that only serves to please her dad but can’t live up to expectations. She has so much to say about Kendal but when she’s asked to do anything she fuccs it up. And the fact that she’s always always always willing to sacrifice Tom does not sit well with me at all, plus as was said she is very fake woke. She’s just as conniving as the rest of them

[@flaviacristina2774]

All Tom wanted her to do was to acknowledge his feelings/concerns, he brings his anxieties up to her a dozen tines and she dismisses it everytime, that was the nail in the coffin of their relationship. Shiv never puts Tom as a priority of anything

[@chadbarr5365]

It's hard to see what these two ever saw in each other in the first place, given how eager they are to turn on each other. Really hard to see why Shiv wanted Tom in the first place.

[@ongogablogian]

I think she just wanted someone to worship the ground she walks on. As for Tom, it’s the looks and proximity to power he gets by being around the Roys

[@gooel]

Shiv wanted someone "safe" who wasn't a threat to her. Tom wanted access to the billionaire lifestyle.

[@EJD339]

a lot of the time the family just screws over each other and other horrible people but we get so mad at shiv because she screws over someone we actually like.

[@BatmanHQYT]

So Tom came up with his whole master plan while drunk, what a guy 😂

[@biggyls4297]

And Tom gave it to her in the finale! JUSTICE…..

[@yunjingf]

watching this after the s3 finale.........

[@alsage9992]

This was just so heartbreaking.

[@Kaigirl27]

Ugh Tom really cared about her and she just saw him as a stepping stone :(.

[@kingston4313]

Why are they even together? The power balance is so skewed. Every time I see her I see Logan’s face lol,

[@innerDialectic]

Logan said it much earlier. Shiv chose him because she wouldn't want anyone on her level who would truly challenge her, while Tom has been trying to climb up the ladder by riding her coattails.

[@hothotheat3000]

Because he’s not a threat to her, and she knows he’s a social climber who won’t want to screw up the marriage. She thinks he will do as he is told with no pushback.

[@Yash-bu4du]

You've answered your own question there.

[@kapnerad]

Sarah Snook is one of the sexiest women on the planet and you can't convince me otherwise.

[@jeremy_jhonson_]

i want her to be my mommy

[@justinsantiago8277]

this family is like the corporate version of the Kardashians.

[@samtrotter7177]

Christ, she really is the absolute worst.

[@marcos-anjos]

I think that even Logan dismissed the idea quicker than she did

[@verbalkint4258]

@@stupididiot6993 Gerri isn't any better than Shiv. She helped cover up the sexual abuse and prevented Tom from doing a press conference addressing the issue telling him to "not grow a conscience now".

[@innerDialectic]

@@verbalkint4258 Gerri isn't sanctimonious or putting any airs or pretenses. She's the most realistic and grounded person in the show.

[@darkseaofempathy]

@@stupididiot6993 Gerri's also terrible, to be fair. She would've been part of the NDA's where the cruises girls were concerned, but Gerri at least doesn't pretend not to be terrible. She out and out told Tom in S1 to shut up about the cruise situation because being a 'sin cake eater' wasn't so bad and you get, "a fuck ton of cake (money)". That's the difference, I think. As a woman, the feminists who root for Shiv are such an abomination, she's a fucking bitch and would absolutely mow you down in real life, it's just clown behavior.

[@GCNMMA]

@@darkseaofempathy all based on real life tbh. There are women that are just as cutthroat as men in those types of workplaces

[@annkey4091]

It's called taking someone for granted --- couples seem to do it all of time. This is just one more instance --- Logan and his marriages; Kendall and his failed marriage; Roman and Gerri (although not a couple, but . . . . . ); Conor is trying it with his significant other, Willa; Tom with Greg Hirsch; Shiv and Tom, who seems to sincerely want his marriage. For some reason, I think Shiv wants her marriage, too, but has no idea where to start, except activity in the boudoir.

[@randycook5452]

I'm gonna show my gayness here and just say that Sarah Snook is STUNNING here!

[@HeavyWeightHank]

Tom and Greg were the best parts of the show. I'm glad Tom looked out for himself

[@Isaac1ofone]

She don’t deserve him .. Tom gonna join kendell

[@manbro8303]

Tom to team up with Kendall and Greg

[@Xmj202]

"its punchy"

[@concernedspectator]

I love how she kind of recognizes his game for the first time. Like when Logan says “I didn’t know he had it in him”. It’s another little foreshadowing for the finale of course. The look she gives him when he tells her “no, with your dad”, she’s clearly impressed. I see people commenting how she failed him here. But it’s his strategy and she respects it, while comforting him. She’s not being manipulative. She’s hearing him out and giving him an honest response, which I think he appreciates more than the canned “no honey you’re drunk” at the start.

[@n4ko]

Right? after season 4 he complains about her not trying to stop him from going to prision but here, he even argues that he could be out in a very short time. i hate Shiv sometimes, but here its just talked about as just some strategic move. “to bank gold with her dad” i don’t get why everyone seems to think She failed him here.

[@커플이에요]

Can we talk the wat they hugged?

[@Kaigirl27]

It’s like he was like looking for comfort and she was like “whatever”

[@tastygravy6880]

Kendall told Tom he deosn't have any beef with him, he should leave Logan and Shiv to hook up with Kendall.

[@armacham]

Kendall is an addict and a f*ckup Tom doesn't actually have any talent. He got his job because he was with Shiv. If he severs the link to Shiv, there's no reason to keep him around.

[@xTheOxx]

I love this show, but there is one major flaw in storytelling: Shiv's reason to be in a relationship with Tom at all. Why were they engaged from the beginning when she clearly has no strong feelings for him? For the optics? How is being engaged to a powerless brown-noser from the Midwest a good look for her?

[@kena.8003]

Lots of reasons. For one, she likes the power dynamic and enjoys the dominance in their relationship.

[@xTheOxx]

@@kena.8003 Good point. I just remembered the scene in season 1 when Tom has a black eye and he says it's from sex with Shiv. Folds in nicely with your suggestion about her!

[@Nooneimportant21]

He’s a dog to her. She already cheats on him

[@namedidii]

Trophy husband

[@portigoza]

the dad tells her why she is marrying someone beneath her.... and he thinks it's because she doesn't want someone to betray her

[@PauAngie]

If I recall correctly, doesn't she end up asking his father not to sacrifice Tom, and it's Kendall the chosen one to go to prison? Also I think Logan seeing how Shiv asked for that meant that she was not worthy of being his succesor?

[@johnmcgehee5484]

Man, she really hates her husband.

[@testxxxx123]

poor tom ...

[@chiomawoherem4625]

Am i the only one who didn't see anything wrong with what Shiv said here? In fact she was right

[@bronwynpaulsen1469]

Facts

[@johnw3520]

Thick

[@normancook965]

She's smart, but deep down has zero empathy for others.

[@marykay7878]

tom truly loved and respected and supported shiv, shiv never loved or supported or respected tom, but shiv thought she could continue to not love, support or respect him without his love, support and respect for her deteriorating. shows how delusional she is. i think because logan was the least hard on his only daughter, shiv is the most naive amongst his kids. even connor has better insight when it comes to human connection.

[@champagnemls]

1:25 Shiv's scene nodding her head multiple times just taken from another actor's scene. Why do I have the feeling that she is replicating other actors' body language in other movies. Still didn't start the show but I cannot associate her much with a Roy daughter

[@guillegarcia7146]

Wtf are talking about. Juat watch the show man

[@champagnemls]

@@guillegarcia7146 I will but that is my opinion WITHOUT first watching it. Am I not allowed to even make a comment??? Whole show maybe fine but I am just making a comment on this scene and the actor

[@guillegarcia7146]

@@champagnemls "but I cannot associate her much with a roy daughter" ????

[@champagnemls]

@@guillegarcia7146 I had seen a small scene where she talks about open marriage. Maybe I found her manipulative.Maybe that's why I could not associate her / a family of so much control and who plans everything beforehand that she tells her husband AFTER they wed that she prefers open marriage... I assumed she has low esteem and was scared of being cheated. And by telling such thing 1) she wanted to manipulate the situation and wanted to give the signal to her husband that she may anytime cheat on him because she was scared of being cheated. She just wanted to have upperhand.. This is covert narcissim or being a coward.. 2) She said that her husband married her for money. I do not know. Have not seen theserie. If so, she also married him for power who can back her up in business dealings as a MAN. Than, they should have not even got married. 3) I do not know. A feeling it is. I will comment / update my comment / or edit after I watch the serie.....

[@hsuscott2804]

Shiv is by far the least likable character on the show

[@kinare1853]

Oh yeah because Logan "no real person involved" is so likeable and inclusive

[@philipgodsworth4764]

@@kinare1853 you have remarkably poor reading comprehension

[@nizvkfb7vsbvrsct723]

none of the characters are really likable but I love to watch all of them

[@achusabin3317]

@@nizvkfb7vsbvrsct723 Greg is extremely likable. And Kendall compared to his siblings is relatively likeable

[@nizvkfb7vsbvrsct723]

@@achusabin3317 sure I like Greg and I really enjoy watching him but he's not a good person and is slowly getting just as bad as the rest.

[@elijahnelson5696]

She is quite ignorannt because, he is testing her and she is not even selling it to him. Her incompetency in this scene is smth logan already knew beforehand.

[@phoenix15_]

How did Tom even date Shiv in the first place ?

[@annkey4091]

Tom looked at Shiv's purse, first.