Tomb Kings Review (Old World) - Warhammer Weekly 01312024

[@YTHandlesAreDumb]

Funny watching this, and that Chaos Dwarf rumor turned out to be a Blood Bowl team!

[@AVS_uk]

"The only reasonable end of this is utter disappointment" 😂😂😂 I'm dying with laughter

[@StrengthHammer]

Thank you for the lovely shout out friends! I love you both!

[@VinceVenturella]

Our pleasure! Right back at you brother.

[@Zaphodox]

So here’s a tale. Everything sold out online, walk into a random little hobby shop in a back alley in Hong Kong and WHAMMO there’s the tomb king set. Needless to say I bought it so fast I have given myself wrist whiplash.

[@nicolaszhang2174]

Im in HK as well, DMZ there has a ton of tomb kings sets if anyone wants some

[@Jackaljkljkl]

@@nicolaszhang2174 I was in HK before. I remember the tiny official store in the mall off Argyle Street closed, but the one on the island is still knocking about IIRC

[@TombKingTristan]

Tom asked so many good questions this episode. My like is for Good Question Tom this week.

[@ianbambury4625]

Just came here to say how much I enjoy and look forward to your videos every week 👍

[@VinceVenturella]

I appreciate that!

[@the_capitalist_pig]

Old World content gives me a reason to get out of bed in the morning.

[@phookaziz3]

Have replayed this several times as I build and learn my first TK army.

[@perfidy1103]

Just wanted to leave a comment for the algorithm. I am a proper old school WHFBer: played briefly at the tale end of 3rd edition through 5th before drifting away. Came back for a couple of years during 6th before drifting away again. I also played a fair amount of WFRP. Given all this, I was sad when I learnt that GW had killed fantasy, but since I wasn't playing when it actually happened I got over it fairly quickly. Then back during COVID I got back into Warhammer, specifically AoS, discovered your channel, and got over the death of fantasy. When TOW was announced, I was not expecting to be excited, and when it was announced that they'd be re-releasing ancient minis I was even less excited. But the release has changed that. The game system shows to me this wasn't a rush job: the designers really put a lot of thought into the rules. Reading through the army lists has got me hyped about fantasy again, and I am planning a Warriors of Chaos army using mostly new AoS sculpts (because let's be honest, the old plastics are kinda bad). All that's to say I at least will appreciate the occasional TOW video on your channel, and will make sure to like and comment to help them do well!

[@DS_painting]

Great video! Really liked the army overview and your enthusiasm for TOW. Another cool addition to the presentation could be to show some pictures of your army (or of the battles you played) while you talk about the units. Looking forward to more TOW content!

[@toogreytogame]

All of the Dawnbringer hints of Skaven have been Skryre focused: snipers (read Jezzails which are finecast), 2 warlock engineers (metal and come in packs of 2) and (a potentially Skryre) Verminlord (which we don't have). Perhaps the refresh focus will be Skryre and not Eshin as rumored. Both and I'd be in heaven.

[@thebeersofsigmar]

Fantastic Vince,Tom love that your both into it, mad hype. Sad about the stalkers being trash love that build of the model but guess it’s snake riders all the way to the bank.

[@Luna_Trashpanda]

Really enjoyed your review of Tomb Kings. Was nice to hear about your reasoning and experiences with units rather than just a flat stats from the rule book review. I would love to hear your thoughts on Skaven if you ever get around to playing them.

[@PingachuWarham]

I believe skaven arent gonna be playable for old world

[@PingachuWarham]

I double checked, they're gonna get free rules but they're not part of the main narrative

[@skreechverminking2227]

In gw’s perspective they aren’t but I mean who said they ain’t part of the marrative aspect of the players view😂

[@BlastastiC]

@@skreechverminking2227 I'm a Chaos Dwarf player, so my stance on GWs has always been to completely ignore them :D That and to be grateful when we get any kind of rules at all!

[@BlastastiC]

And just to add - I think our rules are actually great. K'daai Destroyer never had an official model, so whatever. All the classic Hobgoblin units are there, Black Orcs are there, Blunderbusses are there. The only miss is the regular cav sized Bull Centaurs, but I mean... they were superceded by the ForgeWorld ones, so I can understand it. All in all - very happy, don't care less about GW's "legacy" status - my local club will be ignoring it.

[@nemo-no-name]

Old World Old World!!! Always fun :)

[@starslayer2438]

I did not expect to get hit by such a hard nostalgia flashback while your were going through this army list.

[@seppbrandner]

Hreat show guys! Im still waiting on my tomb kings to ship but thankfully ive got your show and a couple old metal sculpts to paint while i wait❤ Aso that re-roll successful wound rolls item on the bone dragon is insane. That + its -1 to hit from shooting ability means it may actually get to stomp some units before it goes down in a blaze of wood elf arrows 😅

[@Dotification]

I hope the Skaven refresh is a good one, for you & everyone else with an interest in them/face them often. You seem zen not killing yourself to get a chance at a head-pat for a Golden Daemon entry, & [thankfully] free to call them out on their associated BS. I agree that being able to ally in other factions from your Grand Alliance almost as a default feels... off at best, to dissonant at worst. I modified a non-Ghyran CoS list* recently to have a unit of SC Vanguard Hunters & Tree Revenants recently... & yeah it should have to be Living City or HH:G to get any Sylvaneth allies, [though gatekeeping allies behind sub-factions w/ pants rules again is annoying with how unevenly balanced sub-factions can be.] Or Settler's Gain for LRL, etc., etc.--I do miss having your sub-faction affect your BattleLine & allies choices. Also, part of me is curious... is viewership declining markedly when you transition into TWO segments? *am excited to see the winter balance patch make FG Command Corps unique

[@goatforcemcgoat8233]

Been playing with the idea of a TK on Dragon, with Armour of Ages, Potion of Toughness and Talisman of Protection. It is very expensive - almost 460 points - but a 4+ 5+ 5+ with re-roll enemy successful Wound Rolls on T6 that can be boosted up to T9 potentially with potion once seems like it would be tough as nails! (the person I play with really wants WoC to get a Chaos Dragon lord when we finally roll round to them, so I want my guy to survive combat with this!)

[@ronkent6714]

Heirophant on Dragon can cast "ARISE" at 18 inches, which is one reason you might put him on one!

[@urs9189]

Concerning the Casket of Souls I played a game last night and my opponent put a lvl 4 wizard in 24 inches range dispelling all the spells and the Casket was useless at that point. To be fair I was pretty unlucky with my rolls for the bound spells. So keep in mind everyone to screen it outward against wizards

[@justinterrell7020]

Who do you normally take for BSB? Some people are saying they can take the Tomb King, other people are showing me rules where it says it has to be a herald, and I don’t know about any of it

[@VinceVenturella]

It’s the herald. He’s your army BSB

[@justinterrell7020]

@@VinceVenturella Okay, makes sense. I’m planning on not running the regular skeleton warriors in favor of archers, and Im putting a necrotect and High Priest in a unit of 20 tomb guard, I was wondering if the herald should go with them or another unit

[@Malisteen]

i like the mortuary cult thematically, but are its benefits really worth giving up tomb guard (including snake riders & war sphinxes)? what do you take a charge with? what do you grind out battles of attrition against enemy anvils with? ushabti are a great hammer, but they're so fragile. chariots can hit hard on the charge, but the damage disappears otherwise. can skeleton warriors really anchor a battleline? You seem to rate them pretty low. still, those casting bonuses, and a special slot necrosphinx.... I do really like so much about mortuary cult.

[@VinceVenturella]

You have to play a much cagier game for sure, relying more on magic to bring units down and then finish them with Ushabti or similar, lots of cat and mouse.

[@SomersetDrinker]

I kinda like the suspicious allied rule for certain armies. Like Vampire Counts and Empire. Sylvania is official an Imperial province and the empire doesn't really know there's vampires there until Vlad starts knocking on the doors of altdorf. I think there were even rules in 5th or 6th edition for mortal/sylvanian units you could take.

[@Hobbitonhold]

I thought you'd never do old world due to old comments and glad you do. you smash it

[@charlesfox4449]

where was the army builder they were discussing? I thought Vince said it was posted below but I didn't see it

[@VinceVenturella]

old-world-builder.com/?fbclid=IwAR2vyJ9CAkc-cXeo_HAdXqAE_pd5RS9_RYpcdkDI-ut33Zm3SJO5pw_g3SM

[@charlesfox4449]

@@VinceVenturella Thanks Vince

[@johnymiller7245]

Yes, more, I want more The old World ! your imput is quite valuable for me ! even if I' late to the party !!! ha ha ha !!!

[@Malisteen]

great video, love tomb kings & tomb kings content. cot my first game in with 1k mortuary cult, forgot half my special rules, and won anyway because my opponent's army just could not deal with a necrosphinx. good times.

[@renatofornaroli]

Great show as always, funny enough my first Old World game this weekend was also Tomb Kings vs Beastmen! You mentioned Tomb Guard in 5x4 formation, would you ever consider Skeleton Warriors in 6x3/6x4 or even 7x3 to screen a flank?

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I think that could work, I am still playing with configuration as well.

[@daniel.molinadiaz7702]

Having a hard time deciding how to build my skellies, spears or hand weapons. Does it really matters for tournaments/competitive? Can you build them with spears and use them as hand weapons? Thank you very much!

[@VinceVenturella]

Spears is more traditional, but it does cost points you probably don't need to spend. That being said, in most places, people won't care, as long as you say and play how it says on your list. Official GW events might be different.

[@daniel.molinadiaz7702]

@@VinceVenturella thank you very much!

[@glyngreen538]

@@daniel.molinadiaz7702tournaments (even smaller non GW ones) would probably say if the models are armed with spears they need to have them in game. It’s called ‘what you see is what you get’ or WYSIWYG and is helpful to avoid confusion with new people playing each other. In a casual game between friends you could fine though. Personally I’d say spears are generally worth paying for unless you have a small unit you’re buying just to be a disposable speed bump and then die in which case maybe hand weapons to be cheaper.

[@andreasrasmussen195]

More old world content yes please!!

[@justinterrell7020]

Hi, new and enthusiastic Tomb Kings player here (taking a break from building because I have no super glue and I learned the hard way plastic glue and old skeletal horses are not a good match for my skill level). I got the starter kit, a Sphinx box, and a Necropolis Knight box (calling it that because you made clear the stalkers suck and the knights are probably what Ill be building). You said you were a fan of chariots, but also tended to lean towards Mortuary Cults. I really like the lore and idea of them, but I wouldn’t be able to get some of the mandatory units required yet (like out of stock Ushabti, unreleased Tomb Scorpions, etc). I intend to grab a box of tomb guard from my lgs as soon as I am able. Would you recommend a new guy to just play the base army and avoid the armies of infamy while I learn the game and army? Id prefer to run the Warsphinxes but would be happy with a Necrosphinx, and once it re-releases I really want to run a casket of souls. Do you have any advice? Which Sphinx would you personally run if you had to?

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, you can just start with the main army, the army is good in many ways. I think both Sphinx have play, so honestly, you're good either way.

[@justinterrell7020]

@@VinceVenturella Thanks for the response! How do you normally kit out your chariot-riding Tomb King? What items and such do you normally give him?

[@earnestwanderer2471]

As an old WHF player I’d like to be able to mix in Gloomspite with Orruks. Don’t know if that would be broken in competition.

[@earnestwanderer2471]

I know you can now, as allied units. I guess I was imagining a one book situation like it was in WHF 6th Ed.

[@goatman9998]

They are both in the same faction.....you can

[@VinceVenturella]

Yep, same faction.

[@oleww50]

2:41 ooo new Sylvaneth on the horizon? 😁

[@jolamber]

In the push and pull of combat when does combat start new if ever?

[@seppbrandner]

As soon as you follow up and re-enter contact with someone who fell back in good order

[@jolamber]

@seppbrandner oh wow okay so that's considered a whole new combat

[@markmorris2207]

I'd rather see Crystal Brush was back at Adepticon--or a reasonable facsimile thereof. The variety of figures and artistry on display was wonderful.

[@drzephy]

I'm not sure I caught it during the initial review, but what's the big difference with the magic system here that makes you like it compared to aos? also do you think they're gonna change the aos one to be similar?

[@ThomasLyons]

A couple changes. You can cast all spells you know. Spells all happen in different, appropriate phases. You get a bonus to your cast equal to your wizard level (so +4 often), which makes magic more reliable. Finally, my favorite part, you can mishap an unbind with double ones, which means that unbinding is a real decision in this game.

[@Malisteen]

Both Vince and Facehammer have rated kings/princes on chariots in chariot units very highly. I'm not sure I do, at least outside of royal host lists. In royal host, with tomb guard chariots, sure. But in normal or mortuary cult lists the chariots seem like a decent support unit to chase off light units or charge into the flank of something stuck in with your battleline infantry. But you don't need a hero to chase off eagles, and if you're counter-punching something that already charged your skeletons or tomb guard, then I'd rather have had the character in the infantry to begin with, so they could be adding to combat res and reducing extra damage from unstable on the enemy's turn when you took the charge. It'd be different if I thought charriots were winning fights with core battleline blocks on their own, and again in royal host with the tomb guard chariots sure, but with regular skeleton chariots aren't most real anvils going to take the charge and still be around after? And if you're still stuck in combat for a second turn those charriots without their cav spears & impact hits are suddenly hitting like plain old skeletons, and without a skeleton block's fast healing or static res. So are you even still winning combat in the second round? And that's before you consider countercharges. Though on the topic of fighting multiple enemy units at once, that frontage of 200mm means if the enemy battleline consists of several units 5 wide close together you might not even be able to charge the chariots from the front without engaging multple units at once, so then you're trying to maneuver for a flank charge, which charriots are fast enough to go for, but that's now bringing possibly your general even further from the center of your lines. I get that the chariot adds a fair bit of durability to the prince/king, but with all that it still feels to me like, unless you're going for some wonky all chariots & necroknights & necrosphinxes build, if you've got a typical infantry battleline at all, then it just feels like you want this guy to be in there . But I'm clearly just be wrong here because everything I read or watch about tomb kings rates the chariot as the number one way to run your prince/king.

[@joshuaparks9274]

Vince, how do you feel about some of the cheese in the old world, like a chaos lord of nurgle on dragon with 5+ Regen and ward save and the beguiling helm? Do the rules make such a combination manageable, or is it just pure filth?

[@VinceVenturella]

If they want to spend 500+ points on that unit, I say go nuts. It's still certainly breakable by artillery, even at a 2+/5+/5+ and when it goes down, you lose the game almost instantly.

[@BeefyCrunch]

Rumor engine, Sylvaneth warcry??

[@byzantinebyron6947]

Love the content as always, any chance of a Bretonnia review? There's other reviews but nothing matches how your show can just suck me in for 3 hours without a second thought.

[@hailhydra7959]

Really great video, I hope you do more Old World.

[@VinceVenturella]

That's the plan!

[@TrippyTheShroom]

I welcome more Old World content. As soon as Kislev is announced/released, my bank account will scream.

[@sneakybeak4032]

Theres another builder called 'New Recruit' which seems a lot more complete and lists the rules next to everything :)

[@JimCrimmins]

I am huffing the Skaven hopium @vincentventurella... New models, launch box, it's coming... Yes yes

[@andrewwade9806]

Settra returns! Hail Settra!

[@Malisteen]

man I don't know about the stone thrower. you fire a shot into the middle of their battleline, scatter onto nothing, impose -1 leadership to two units and characters in, they fail leadership test on a critical hero ability and the catapult was good anyway. you fire at a unit on the flank out of general/bsb range turn one, scatter some, clip the unit and cause a single wound, and they fail their panic on -1 and flee off the board. only hits 1/3 of the time? so what, 5+ to hit is what tk shooting is all about. Maybe I'm just wrong, but for 125 it just feels like a solid utility option. If it's bad, I'll have to learn that from my own hard lost battles, I just can't accept that from someone else.

[@VinceVenturella]

All I know is in 2 games, I officially hit 0 models. So that's a pass from me.

[@jolamber]

Old world episode let's gooo!

[@BlastastiC]

The Chaos Dwarf death rocket with the 5" template and incendiary rockets is a bad time for anyone with the Dry as Dust rule!

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Sylvaneth or maybe even Old World. Druid/shaman character type.

[@totallycarbon2106]

On the topic of golden demon and late announcements - I'm personally upset that we only now know that there seemingly isn't going to be one in the UK this year and that the only European representation seems to be Essen. Im well aware other europeans frequently make it a habit to travel to the UK for GD so I'm aware of the priveledge of being in GW's "home country." But having already booked travel and accommodation for a holiday this year I've used up my travel budget and I won't be able to go to GD this year! It just stings a bit as its something I've been using as a source of extraneous motivation for my painting.

[@totallycarbon2106]

I just wish GW cared more, even a fraction as much as the painters who put their heart and soul (and time and money) into it. I'd like to be able to depend on their communication to plan ahead and not get caught out like this.

[@briochepanda]

Ah yes, where were you the day Scott betrayed all bonds of fealty and attempted to single handedly storm Nottingham to anex it as his own personal fifedom, with nought but a smart phone and his whits?

[@DocPhantoms]

The players of Warhammer Fantasy at my local FLGS at the change over from End Times to AOS were some of the worst people to play with. They had a strict meta of "take this thing or you're f***ed (dispel scrolls, level 4 wizards, etc.) and only played minimal terrain tables with the objective of killing more points than the other. They were very unfriendly to new players, willing to show them the game but complain when the new player had things that were "broken" but were fine with their own skew lists and tricks (fielding the starter set dwarf cannons exclusively because they were smaller than the standard ones.) So my feeling about TOW has for the long time been one of contempt and lament because AOS saw those players dip out of the community and as a result the local meta became friendlier for GW's fantasy side of their games. But I am happy to say that seeing you guys, Rob, Strengthhammer, and a few others embrace TOW has brought me to feeling better about the game coming back. I am almost, but not quite, at the point of wanting to give it a try. So thank you!

[@donross5669]

Love the content! Please do Skaven!

[@pallasovidius3015]

On the skaven short story... I think we will see some stormcast eternals straight up dying.

[@redsven7624]

Tom wrong footing Vince on pic of the week by doing preparation is a pic of the week. Old world -wise I am still not bothered, had this on in background but wouldn't go out of my way to listen. It is in the tedious over-exposure part of the GW cycle. Looking forward to actually seeing armies done by people.

[@RyanF1313]

Vince - have you ever shown us your armies?

[@VinceVenturella]

I did a recent hobby cheating video showing my armies, I will be doing so more over time. :)

[@lukevassh7740]

"Idk, it's just gross." 🤣🤣🤣

[@Jclark83]

You know what white lions done have???? Friends

[@chadcrowder3932]

The Tomb King on a Dragon is cheaper than a Tomb King in a unit of 6 chariots

[@VinceVenturella]

This is true, but that is a much more versatile unit with much more unit strength.

[@markprice490]

Story time without announcing that story time?

[@Ethnarches]

Thank you, keep up the Old World content. :)

[@VinceVenturella]

More to come!

[@leesweeney8879]

I like the Tomb Kings, yet I suspect GW will kill "Soft" kill Old World in 14 months. 200USD single Lords twice a year.

[@VinceVenturella]

I guess time will tell

[@TheGImp1214]

The fact that tom is eating chips directly into the mic bothers me to a huge degree its actually awful

[@Jackaljkljkl]

Vince plays Ness AND Mr. Game & Watch?! Jesus Christ, where is the humanity?!

[@VinceVenturella]

Well, my main is Samus, those are my two fun characters.

[@dannythompson9642]

👍👍

[@cdc2ka]

🥱🥱😴😴😴

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

😎😎

[@ClockworkBananaMoon]

"They're too kind, they're too British..." Vince, old chap, we commonly use the c-word here as a pet name among friends. Don't believe the propaganda. As you were, back to the hobby.

[@VinceVenturella]

Oh, I know that, but it also doesn't have the cache. My personal opinion, British people have taken being polite while also deeply insulting a cultural touchstone. I've been to the UK enough to see it in action. :)

[@ClockworkBananaMoon]

@@VinceVenturella In all fairness, you're not wrong either. Last thing you want to hear from a Brit is them responding 'ah, interesting....' ;)