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Top 5 Space Marines units to AVOID | Warhammer 40K tactics

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vf.miniatures

vf.miniatures

Күн бұрын

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@Sonof_DRN2004
@Sonof_DRN2004 3 ай бұрын
I legitimately use all of the units included in the thumbnail lmfao
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
A gifted commander is never afraid no matter the shortcomings of his troops! 😁
@McFatson
@McFatson 3 ай бұрын
Same. I started with Leviathan and that ballistus is one of the two vehicles i own. At least my Predator is good but I bet it'll go Legends in 11th lol
@jackfrozr6773
@jackfrozr6773 3 ай бұрын
I use all but sternguard, but the ballistus will go as soon as i get or build another lancer.
@tyhar7493
@tyhar7493 3 ай бұрын
I run 2 Ballistus and a Lancer. They legitimately burn down most of my opponents counter armour pretty early. I can be a bit more risky with the Ballistus, the 2+ save means it can tank more shots, while I keep the lancer at the back only exposing itself to the targets it wants to take out that turn. All 3 of them don't need OoM because of inherent re-rolls so I can put that on a target that the infantry want to take out. If you put a phobos librarian with the Eliminators you can just sit them in a high back field location with no worries on taking shots. With the lasfusils they aren't as consistent as Eradicators but you don't have to worry as much about them getting close. Sternguard with a lieutenant giving them lethal hits are great at saturation fire, yes you get less Dev wounds but as stated in the video best you get is 3-4 of those anyway. I have two mates with Necron armies and I can one turn a C'tan with a 10 man sternguard unit, shooting and a charge. People overlook they have 4 attacks in melee too. With lethal hits there is just too many dice to shrug off. I'm not running them as much at moment because battleline units have taking their place. Heavy Inceptors are pretty solid midfield holders, if they are supported by a Ballistus then thats a good double type unit holding an objective. They only one I kind of agree with is the executioner in some respects, as a Lancer does a better job at anti tank, but if you want mix of transport and anti tank it is your best option at that price point.
@randomberk
@randomberk 3 ай бұрын
My latest Fists list has 2x 10 HI 😅
@alessandroamici7337
@alessandroamici7337 3 ай бұрын
Live my beautiful Ballistus alone you heartless monster
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
😅😅😅
@mathiasschulze6148
@mathiasschulze6148 3 ай бұрын
@@alessandroamici7337 it's a little bit sad, that the Ballistus is by far the weakest of the three options. Maybe 120 points? But a Dreadnought that is cheaper than Inceptors is crazy. xD
@Sakiawe
@Sakiawe 3 ай бұрын
Oh hey. Good thing i didnt get 2 ballistus, 2 sterns, 2 repulsors, 3 heavy intercessors and 1 squad of eliminators. Oh.. Thats what i did. You better hope that thumbnail was bait
@Sakiawe
@Sakiawe 3 ай бұрын
Edit. Been adding stuff as i watch video. To fix sterns RF2 and reroll all wounds on oath target (once a game or all the time) could work. Then adjust points if necessary. To fix heavy intercessors. Honestly they are aggressively mediocre. Guess giving segeant some melee options could be neat. To fix repexe sv2+. Yup. Nothing fancy. If fancy needed, just make exe ability do wonds too. To fix eliminators lower points because transport cheese is gone. To fix ballistus give [heavy]. As shameless anvil enjoyer i would love nothing more. I do use every one of these units in their current state. Sterns in anvil relatively effective in melee and can do great at shooting. Heavy intercessors work because they make opponent do work. Repulsor exe is either gone t1 or 2 or it does all the work. Eliminators are actually fantastic at denying character buffs if terrain allowes it. Ballistus should be considered average but my boys just fail hits, wounds or damages every time. Still love all of em. Been trying some jank with repulsor+10stern+cap or LT. Anvil siege 10 heavy intercessors with stoic defender biologis is decently hard to shift.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
Agreed, that would actually be interesting
@o0Takeno0o
@o0Takeno0o 3 ай бұрын
I use 2 ballistus all the time with 2 vindicators and a land raider so my whole tankline has a 2+ save. Also i like that it is at least a bit fightyer than most tanks
@william9557
@william9557 2 ай бұрын
​@@SakiaweRR wound against oath target, with RR wounds of 1 wouldn't even be op honestly. They just get to be a one target blaster, and they'll probably get munched the first turn they do that because your opponent will go "no fucking thank you" after his 10 stack of termies gets blown away by a massive mortal wound stack Assault ints get that but RR on objectives.
@ilo3456
@ilo3456 3 ай бұрын
Eliminators are incredibly good with a Phobos Librarian, since that basically makes the squad work like Lone operatives, so you can put them in a place where they can see enemy vehicles and not be shot back because of range
@gorryman
@gorryman 3 ай бұрын
Vangaurd Spearhead
@ilo3456
@ilo3456 3 ай бұрын
@@gorryman That too
@william9557
@william9557 3 ай бұрын
The only issue is the extreme level of deepstrike armies have now, that unless you screen them into a corner, they gonna get dunked on. 5 termies will mop them up in one shooting phase
@Aidemusss
@Aidemusss 3 ай бұрын
This combo (eliminators + phobos) is expensive for the damage and utility you get. Las fusil has a nice profile but only 3 shoots and struggle to wound vehicules and monsters. Sniper shots are meh, and against some armys completly useless. You wont be shoot from far but shooting armys can be very mobile. Sisters with seraphins and deepstrike, eldar hawks, tau crisis,... Vs melee armys their rules are also useless and you can use them for block, but they are too expensive.
@randomberk
@randomberk 3 ай бұрын
If you can sit them in the open in range of the middle obj and with lone op to keep them safe they can be quite a deterrent, but they still don't often pop leaders I've found. And it's a bit pricey for just a deterrent
@HB2K-h8m
@HB2K-h8m 3 ай бұрын
The big advantage of the ballistus is it comes with Leviathan! And it's much easier to manoeuvre than a tank. The Executioner is great vs hordes and lower toughness and save stuff, particularly in lower points games. It is very expensive in pts though. Eliminators will always have a place in my heart after a small squad managed to take down a chaos land raider once. Their post shoot move is quite fun but they are super fragile.
@scriv_paints
@scriv_paints 3 ай бұрын
I've had great success with Sternguard combi-bolter squads for an anti-elite role. They make mincemeat out of Custodes/Terminators/Eightbound etc. They are more dependent on Oath than I'd like but if you use them at the right time they easily trade well.
@JonathanCrane82
@JonathanCrane82 3 ай бұрын
A lot of this is all day every day in raven guard list, but then again, we're so stealthy that people forget we exist.
@seankoch1601
@seankoch1601 3 ай бұрын
Can't say I completely agree with you on the Repulsor executioner. Every time you mentioned no rerolls ...I just think of oath of moment? The real trouble is maneuvering in competitive terrain.
@catherinedalzell3183
@catherinedalzell3183 3 ай бұрын
I often run a 10-man of heavy intercessors as Black Templars with the 6+ FNP. They die, but it takes a while. The opponent has to commit a lot to shift them. I have had success with those intercessors in Anvil Siege/Imperial Fists with a biologis and the enhancement that gives a 6+FNP and battleshock protection. Heavy Intercessors also make a good bodyguard to Tor Garadon, who kills tanks like flies. I also like 2 ballistus dreads -- running only 1 is an exercise in disappointment. However, I am thinking of replacing the ballistae with 3 squads of eradicators.
@jovantamrin8384
@jovantamrin8384 3 ай бұрын
Im not convinced of your choices... I can name units much more unuseable than your choices... 1. Reiver Phobos 2. Outriders 3. Invictor 4. Suppressor 5. Desolation Squad
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
The idea of this list is to show units that are not objectively and obviously bad. But rather those that a lot of people might want to use for one reason or another and therefore fall into a “trap”
@Powaup
@Powaup 3 ай бұрын
Desolation squad needs its own case study of how to not launch a new product/unit
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 2 ай бұрын
Lol, definitely
@william9557
@william9557 2 ай бұрын
Supressors are actually good but fragile, so treat them as thus; vanguard helps. Get them 5" up and now they have ap2. They quite often get ignored in larger games, and then can move rapidly to do secondaries or stay back and cover home objective.
@scottyboy6269
@scottyboy6269 Ай бұрын
I thought reivers were worst. Rule.of cool didn't save them
@tbone11x
@tbone11x 3 ай бұрын
Eliminators with a phobos librarian is my go to home objective holder. No terrain needed in front of them and now with dev wounds being mortals again they become a legitimate threat to big stuff and even larger units.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
@@tbone11x definitely an interesting combo, only wish you could have a 6-man squad of snipers
@Sigismundssword
@Sigismundssword 3 ай бұрын
Jesus the picture is literally every unit I use besides ballistus
@jarvbricks7422
@jarvbricks7422 3 ай бұрын
You’ve just named all my units that I have as pants. 😂
@GamingTalk-cl7xj
@GamingTalk-cl7xj 3 ай бұрын
Repulser Executioner is better point value than a separate lancer and chaingun light tanks. And the ballistus is a excellent against single big units
@jackfrozr6773
@jackfrozr6773 3 ай бұрын
Just played a game yesterday where my ballistus, eliminator and gladiator reaper all focus fired on an immolator. The only one dealing damage was the reaper (9 damage). Eliminator had 3 las fusil, heavy + 1 wound roll of anvil, OOM, and still no damage.
@FirstAstartes
@FirstAstartes 3 ай бұрын
Appreciate your vids as always. I also think the Lancer is a better choice, but sometimes find myself switching out for the Ballistus if I need the 20 points. One factor is that the Ballistus essentially has 4 decent anti-tank shots instead of the lancer's amazing two. A lot of vehicles are T10 so the missile launcher can have an impact even wounding on 4s.
@jcoe371
@jcoe371 3 ай бұрын
Didn't the highest placing vanilla space marine list at Nova run 2 executioners in a firestorm detachment?
@TheSp00nz
@TheSp00nz 2 ай бұрын
Great content as always. Looking forward to the next one. Keeping us in suspense there, bud
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 2 ай бұрын
@@TheSp00nz thank you so much! Last month was my time to learn that moving to a different state - is a bitch 😂 I’ve already restarted filming so there will be new videos soon 💪
@phogelbice
@phogelbice 3 ай бұрын
almost finished painting my 10 man sternguard unit, not meta but i think/hope they will perform ok. Pretty good shooting and with 4A, S4, D1 they can dish out some hurt in melee aswell. Going to run them with a captian in gladius.
@Birri919
@Birri919 3 ай бұрын
I love sternguards vets with azrael for casual play. It's hilarious how much they can high and low roll. Had them take out the avatar of khaine in one turn, and had them fail to kill a single paragon warsuit.
@aaronsymonds2516
@aaronsymonds2516 3 ай бұрын
Definitely agree with 2 in the list... Sternguard Veterans are too nerved now to make them good and Heavy Intercessors have just a little less fire-power than expected for the cost. However... I have had great success with Eliminators with Las Fusals: pop them up on a building and picking off longer range targets forces you opponent to either ignore them and keep taking chip damage all game long or hit them and let a closer unit shoot and charge. Next up, Repulsor Executioner: while the main guns sometimes wiffs without RRs, they are very handy in turn 1 if still as they hit on 2s with the laser and a high damage output... then smash into the midfield with 3 eradicators and they smoke monsters and vehicles that can only be hit close up (eg. Chaos Demons with shroud) and the massive array of low damage weapons clears hoard armies superfast. Ballistus Dreads: awesome to run as interference in the midfield and deliver a few lasgun shots... and big guns never tire, so can punch some of the mid tier melee, back up in the right doctrine, shoot and charge again. Can hurt targets of all types and unless you opponent have enough anti tank, this guy can be dangerous to help soak up some wounds while your big hitters stay safe for an extra turn... sometimes it's good to have a few odd models outside the meta to outsmart people taking lists to specifically destroy meta armies. Loved your review and like a healthy debate too 🎨🚀☮️
@Sippy8782
@Sippy8782 3 ай бұрын
I appreciate that Heavy Intercessors were in your "STRONG Battleline" video a month ago, but in your "Units to AVOID" video now ;).
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
Yep, because SM have like 5 battleline choices so the competition is not that fierce 😂 And for a battleline unit - this one isn’t bad, but still one I’d recommend to avoid
@redcovenant
@redcovenant 10 күн бұрын
The Repulsor Executioner and Ballistus are being slept on. The Executioner can comfortably wipe out a screening unit and the laser destroyer can finish off damaged vehicles. The Ballistus, esp when taking 2-3 of them, can regularly take down vehicles and monsters at range whilst being tough OC4 units to keep on objectives. The Executioner is fewer points than a lancer plus impulsor and has the best of both, with more overall damage than the lancer and (nearly) the troop carrying of an impulsor. If it carried 7 I think it would be taken a lot more often.
@creed6901
@creed6901 3 ай бұрын
Hello vf! I had a question to you about aggressors in gladius. Would you advise running them with Calgar (185pts), in a Repulsor (180pts) or in a Land raider (280 pts)? I tried running them recently at a tournament with just biologis and gravis captain and I felt they were to exposed and vulnerable for the points investment (I was limited by the amount of models I have).
@joerobinson4590
@joerobinson4590 Ай бұрын
Sternguard vets are excellent with Azreal in Dark angels. They make good use of the 4+ invulnerable and the sustained hits. Doubly so if using the inner circle task force for the +1 to wound.
@gudbrandurmagnusson9784
@gudbrandurmagnusson9784 2 ай бұрын
I put elims in every templar gladius list and im playing executioner right now. Usually playing for the top table at local rtt's or first place at the local gt. (Lost twice in a row to the same opponent Grrr). Went 3-2 at LGT, had an awesome time. Elims are my fave scoring unit in gladius over scouts and jump assaults. Its all about the move-shoot-move. I can do stuff like reserve them, come out near an objective, have other units wipe the marker, then post-shot sneak onto the objective. Or they can just stand on a marker and excert just a little pressure with their shoot&scoot. They differ from scouts in the way that with their extra speed I often pull them back in turn 2+ to hold my home marker.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 2 ай бұрын
Interesting take! I’d say if they went back to their old 75pts mark it would make them really quite interesting in this use scenario for me at least
@jo_ken
@jo_ken 3 ай бұрын
2:12 More like Intercessors on a multi-vitamin, since they aren’t all that much better. I still want to run them personally since I plan to do a Pedro Kantor blob and I like the short story ‘Traitor’s Gorge’ where Pedro is working with a squad of Sternguard.
@BradlyMiller-x4k
@BradlyMiller-x4k 3 ай бұрын
I use eliminators in vanguard. I also use the Phobos captain. I usually set them in the midfield turn one to screen out other infiltrators and to give myself three turns of unit placement from my enemy. I then pick them up and put them back in reserves. They become way more mobile and set up a lot more line of sight shooting. I also use the thunder strike and the incursor units to help buff them along with oaths. If I do it right I also can pick them up at the end of my opponent's turn two of them and place them back down.
@lohikaarmeherra-1753
@lohikaarmeherra-1753 3 ай бұрын
You list two units I tend to run XD I enjoy the fact that stern guard can have hwy bolters and give some meaningful fire support instead of the intercessors dinghy grenade lobber.
@xeticus5435
@xeticus5435 3 ай бұрын
You called out nearly my entire Anvil Siege Force list. I'm going to ignore the Ballistus because none of this applies to that unit. All of these models (but the Ballistus) have the Heavy keyword so when they stand still for a turn they get +1 to hit and + 1 to wound and that is HUGE. Eliminators with Phobos Librarian infiltrate to sniping positions at start of game and blast things. Heavy Intercessors go on point and stay there with cover fire from the Eliminators. Executioners sit back and snipe with their Laser Destroyers. And Battle Drill Recall strats gives Sustained Hits 1 which all of these units including Sternguard really want and critting on 5's. 4 out of 5 of these units are great, just for a different type of list.
@william9557
@william9557 3 ай бұрын
If youre running Anvil, 10 infiltrators starting up the board with a phob lib works pretty well. Heavy from the get go, cant be deepstriked or shot outside of 12" And then, they also are a great distraction. Your opponent has to go and get them physically, or leave them alone
@xeticus5435
@xeticus5435 3 ай бұрын
@@william9557 I usually like them for the backline. But I had noticed they have heavy and hadn't figured out a way to use them yet. This helps. People are really sleeping on Anvil. Massive firelines with +1 to hit and wound put out very nice damage.
@tinker1945
@tinker1945 3 ай бұрын
@@xeticus5435 The issue with Anvil is the damage is good, but a lot of competitive boards are very terrain heavy. It allows your opponent to choose when to avoid stuff, and also which units are going to have that buff next turn. Especially as it adds extra value to killing units on objectives. (You're forced to move another unit to compensate now, clearing an objective and also nerfing another.) Dark Angels had a very similar rule in 8th and 9th, even applying to our melee in 9th. We ended up mostly having to just ignore it, because giving up movement was simply far too costly, so it was pretty much only good for counter charges. (All my units never moved on your turn, so they get +1 to hit)
@xeticus5435
@xeticus5435 2 ай бұрын
@@tinker1945 I have had luck infiltrating multiple Eliminators with Phobos Librarian's into no man's land. They either have to sit back let the Eliminators shoot freely or move up into range of Heavy Intercessors and Repulsor Executioners. There is potential there I think.
@acaeleus
@acaeleus 2 ай бұрын
Looks at thumbnail then looks back at all my favorite models* uh oh. 👀
@danielpaoli1093
@danielpaoli1093 3 ай бұрын
For whatever my 2 cents are worth for Sternguard Veterans SGV In a Blood Angels Detachment I believe is their home, and more importantly when a Sanguinary Priest SP (and optional Captain). The SP fixes the problem with SGV, i.e. the lack of AP in melee. In a Liberator Assault Group detachment your rule is on the Charge you gain +1 atks, and +2 to Strength. Which the CCW profile now becomes 5atks, WS3+, S6, AP-1. It should be noted there are 2 stratagems (that should be used for other units but for the sake of argument) BA have a strat for Advance and Shoot or Advance and Charge, SGV have assault on their Bolters so you use the A & C, then when they you can also use Red Rampage for Lethals, Lance, or both ..., but you become Battleshock. Now if the SGV are going into the OOM target. With 45 CCW that have Lance and Lethal, now your talking about a pretty lethal unit. Because they should be 2+ to wound with a reroll of 1.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
Yes, however I believe that’s an example of outstanding buffs trying to resuscitate a not so outstanding unit. Though I do like your thinking 🤔
@adamlinhart8618
@adamlinhart8618 2 ай бұрын
The sternguard veteran squad is mainly playable as Ultramarines, if they are led by Tigurius and use Repulsor as anti-infantry or against lightly armored targets. yeah maybe not quite the meta but if you get a repulsor within 20 inches of something you have oath of moment on I can guarantee they can wipe out most elite infantry. Plus they have a nice bonus defensive ability from Tigurius and free overwatch
@politiciancranberry
@politiciancranberry 3 ай бұрын
I play an executioner ans ballistus in iron storm, gives them a mini lancer rule and its helped a lot woth consistency
@Tabletopsocialclub
@Tabletopsocialclub 3 ай бұрын
Sternguard are pretty good, only 10 points more than Intercessor, plus they get some rerolls and a nice weapons loadouts use mine in Firestorm getting that S5 within 12 and at that range u also get an extra shot with Rapid1 plus if they stand still and don't move looking at a profile of 3-2-5-1-1 within 12in with devastating wounds on 6
@TheBargles
@TheBargles 3 ай бұрын
The thing with the Ballistus Dread vs Lancer is that it can put out 4 strong shots to the Lancer's 2, so against things like heavy infantry or light vehicle units, it's a good deal better. It also has the frag option for the missiles, which while not why you would take it, is an interesting option that the Lancer doesn't have. 2d6 blast at s5 will take a good chunk out of light infantry. It's also a walker and a bit smaller of a model, which brings some advantages. The Lancer is great at punching one tough thing - but that's it. Ballistus is more flexible, tougher, and cheaper. This has been my Ballistus advocate pitch.
@ryanwhaley5041
@ryanwhaley5041 3 ай бұрын
Executioner is great in Ironstorm where the reroll can save the big gun and the buffs stack on it really well. I always take one there but it’s definitely underwhelming elsewhere.
@Ruggedtoaster
@Ruggedtoaster 3 ай бұрын
I think the re-role rule was neat, or the shoot twice was nice but I think what would make them better would be something to improve their anti elite damage like the anti infantry keyword with dev-wounds. I’ve had the same thought that the combat patrol “special ammo” strat would fit them perfectly both in theme and use case. I love the new sculpts and the best use I get out of them is being anti-terminator/custodes brick I hide until I can get them into position to remove an elite unit before they get deleted.
@danabbey4232
@danabbey4232 3 ай бұрын
There’s me thinking Sternguard are totally underrated and entertaining to run (as an off meta option) 😂. I’m using them with a lieutenant as a glass cannon alternative to the biologis/fire discipline/aggressor combo, but in a drop pod for more or less the same points.
@erichhohenzollern275
@erichhohenzollern275 Ай бұрын
Sternguard vs Intercessors For 12.5% higher point cost you get: Vs T4, 4+ Sv target Within 24", 45% higher dmg output Within 12", 80% higher damage output Outside of 24" infinitely higher damage output I did these calcs ignoring Sternguard's special rule, to compensate for Intercessors special rule gives such good utility. The difference in damage output increases as the targets save/invuln increases.
@Azrai030
@Azrai030 2 ай бұрын
I agree on all four points except the ballistus. It's much easier to hide than the lancer. and can also clear a point alone with skirmish units. 5 attacks, S7 are at least more useful than the lancer's secondary armament with only 18-24 inch range. Lots of wasted points for weapons that never come into use. Even more annoying as a Black Templar with 170 points and useless multimelta. The Ballistus can withstand more, is cheaper, can hide better and can be used more aggressively. Definitely a good unit.
@Donovaneagle2098
@Donovaneagle2098 27 күн бұрын
So my list does have Sternguards, but I feel like I'll be judged more for taking Hounds of Morkai. People don't like Reavers, but my army is based around the Wolfspear, the Space Wolves successor chapter all about stealth and Phobos armor. I use the Vanguard Spearhead detachment to be lore accurate and it seemed like if I'm already not picking the meta space wolves build, might as well try and embrace the Phobos centric detachment rules. I have them with a Phobos librarian, and the enhancement giving them move-shoot-move to essentially kite around with their grappling hooks and devastating wound, precision pistols to hunt enemy characters. I also use the Fenrisian wolves and Cyberwolf in place of scout units. Cheaper, they still get the scout keyword, and can move up the board very fast to get on secondary objectives. Then redeploy them and do the same again.
@francoismarion-eu3jq
@francoismarion-eu3jq 3 ай бұрын
10 bolter sternguard w librarian for 4++ is fun to march up the center of the board. Ballistus is > devistators, smaller than a tank for board possition
@inural
@inural 3 ай бұрын
Gotcha! Thanks for the advice, I'm gonna go and field 3 squads of Reivers next game. Jokes aside I feel like the title is a bit catchy, any unit here could be used effectively, just needs the right army for it. Something like "Pitfalls to avoid with these units" would be better title - and would give you more flexibility with the content. (Btw Reivers are just not good, they barely deal any damage, unfortunately anything else is better then them for the same points)
@Maelcumx
@Maelcumx 3 ай бұрын
I totaly understand your ballistus issue, in facts i play 2 ballistus with 2 gladiators and they both always perform great due to the launcher flexibility, only in ironstorm and with techmarine
@martinnikolov38
@martinnikolov38 3 ай бұрын
been using heavy intercessors and sternguard plenty against orks
@danielpaoli1093
@danielpaoli1093 3 ай бұрын
The Repulsor Executioner does get a +1 to hit vs Units that are below half strength. Idk what the math says but between having a +1 vs X targets or a reroll of 1 dice, or even a reroll of 1s to Hit, I would think that the best to have would be 1. Re-roll Hits of 1 (because a Tech-Marine can give +1 to Hit) 2. +1 to Hit vs below Half Strength (which I guess you have a Ballistic Dreadnought start to shoot because it gets something for hitting above half strength, then you finish with Executioner) 3. Reroll 1 Dice to hit (this is the worst because you are probably shooting the OOM target anyways)
@S1leNtRIP
@S1leNtRIP 3 ай бұрын
The ballistus feels really under costed and efficient to me. I don’t know if that’s true but I think if you brought three and had a true volume of fire, they might do a lot of work. Especially with how tough they are.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
@@S1leNtRIP Ballistus is for sure the one model in this top 5 that is actually good. As I said - the only reason it’s there is because Lander exists
@tinker1945
@tinker1945 3 ай бұрын
The issue is the Ballistus just struggles compared to it's competition. The Lancer deals double damage for an extra 14% of the cost, Vindicators are T11, and Armiger Warglaives are battleline. This is even disregarding Eradicators being able to just walk through walls.
@redamerican5830
@redamerican5830 3 ай бұрын
Great video. One issue I have is competitive play tends to make the game alot less fun (especially when you get into arguments about Fly and weather or not you get cover, spoiler you don't.) And it also tends to feel you can only play auto include units for each faction. Me personally I like to play a mixed ranged build and trying to make a combined arms list. Dosent always work but too me it's fun. The units I like for marines tend to not be good. (Interceptors, Land raiders and hell blasters, although I do like the repulsor) Long story short don't play war hammer fir competitive. GW actively hates that on top of the fact it makes it feel like the hobby is really only one sided when it's not, play what you want because you like it.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
@@redamerican5830 I completely understand that - competitive 40K might feel like it’s pushing you into running a Mark 3456 version of the same list over and over just because it has the “optimal” units. But let me reassure you a bit - the current tendency in 40K is that if you are capable of creativity along with really strong 40K skills in general you can create extremely unorthodox lists and still win big events with them. It will require a lot of trial and error and a ton of experience but unlike some previous editions - it can be done. And if you are more of a casual player - you still have a quite a big percentage of your list that you can fill out with potentially suboptimal unit choices (but ones you really like) and still be competitive on your level. Actually all the units you mentioned (inceptors, LRs, Repulsor and Hellblasters) are all strong units and in the right lists they can be very competitive. So best of luck 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
@40kVallin
@40kVallin 3 ай бұрын
So far I´m using 2-3 Ballistus for my Marines, mostly because I don´t have Lancers and they´re pretty okayish to deal with tanks. What I would see as their advantage, 2+ armor, much smaller than the Lancer, so easier to move or hide, and a bit cheaper. If we talk for example about 3, its 60 points and they can hide quite well, better than three tanks can. But I guess most people wouldn´t even use three.
@PostmanApocalypse
@PostmanApocalypse 3 ай бұрын
I started playing in 10th with the leviathan box set and bought a gladiator lancer shorty after. They have both been a staple in my army and honestly I don't know that the lancer ever really out-shines the ballistus. On average I would say that the gladiator may do a bit more damage and the ballistus sticks around till the end far more often--go figure!
@overdark1182
@overdark1182 3 ай бұрын
I have used ballistus because I have only one lancer )) Also ballistus could do some work against infantry.
@WildAce001
@WildAce001 3 ай бұрын
I think Sternguard are overlooked but are going to be a powerhouse in Liberator Assault group. 10 of them with a sanguinary priest, and lieutenant leading them their close combat weapon gets upgraded to 5 attacks strength 6 -1 AP 1 damage and lethal hits. Combined with the bolters being rapid fire within 12" you will always trigger that if you are advancing shooting and charging... For a total of 94 attacks with lethal hits from shooting and combat 2 power fists 1 from Sargent and lieutenant a good chainsword from the Sanguinary priest and 5 attacks strength 6 -1 AP 1 damage from the other 9 Sternguard They can potentially kill a knight like Canis Rex if he's your oath of moment target from sheer volume of attacks on their own. They have built in fallback shoot and charge, can give them speed of the Primarch if you want them to fight first and use the strat that gives them +1 strength and +1 attacks still so they can't even be charged reliably. The lieutenant lets you save cp for when they get stuck in combat or for when you want to use red rampage on another unit. Take a look at this combo for me pls and if you like it do a video on it. Deliver them with either land raider with God hammers or Repulsor with las
@xeticus5435
@xeticus5435 2 ай бұрын
And if you are in close combat their pistols still have Devastating Wounds.
@adamking2864
@adamking2864 3 ай бұрын
I'd say the ballistus has a different role to the Lancer. The Lancer is a one role vehicle (anti tank) which it excels at. But that is all it does. Ballistus are a much more versatile platform, they provide the obvious AT firepower, as well as a reasonable amount of anti hoard (Frag plus bolters). They can push forward into the mid board in the middle of the game because of their durability. Last thing is their oc 4 makes them ok at holding objects your melee squads have cleared so they can push foward
@timhffmaster3776
@timhffmaster3776 3 ай бұрын
I see that Sternguard are no top unit. Nevertheless I really want to try a big squad with the new sang priest to add durability and give them some ap. They do have quite a lot of attacks so they will be some kind of thread when charging bonus from LAG and Priest apply
@Hercules1-v9m
@Hercules1-v9m 2 ай бұрын
If I was doing tournaments sure but like you said, rule of cool. I play with friends for fun. I'm not concerned about winning or losing.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 2 ай бұрын
@@Hercules1-v9m Exactly! Warhammer is about joy - that’s the point
@DirtyKingKob
@DirtyKingKob 3 ай бұрын
Heavys with apoth bio in anvil are great
@runcodematias8832
@runcodematias8832 Ай бұрын
perfect, ill use all these guys in my next battle. don't want to do too well and scare my friends away from Warhammer.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures Ай бұрын
Perfect plan! And if you win - at least they can’t blame you for running a list too powerful 😂
@StorytellerCharm
@StorytellerCharm 3 ай бұрын
Ooh rocking the boat and getting people to think critically here in the comments. Definitely agree, but mostly because the points cost and detachment dictate the true value. Right now not many good points with the exception of maybe the Ballistus and only in the right detachment. Good stuff to think about. My only advice is reduce the blocks of texts into more manageable bite sized pieces and double speck the grammar. Otherwise, another great video.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
Thank you Charm, will do🤗 Sometimes I just have too many thoughts to put down on paper quickly and there is not enough space on the page for all of it 😂
@StorytellerCharm
@StorytellerCharm 3 ай бұрын
@@vfminiatures then I guess you’ll just have more material for more videos. Oh nooooooo lol
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
@@StorytellerCharm 🤣🤣🤣
@mathiasschulze6148
@mathiasschulze6148 3 ай бұрын
I like the model of the Ballistus but the performance in the game is often disappointing. It would help a lot if you could swap the weapon as needed between lascannons, Gattlingguns, rocket pots or Plasmaguns. So you could mix those weapons or focus on one of the die options. It would be weaker than the Lancer in killing Tanks, but more versatile in general.
@KaDargo-uz3ub
@KaDargo-uz3ub 3 ай бұрын
I agree the anti-tank performance is unreliable. S10 on the krak missiles is inadquate as anti-armor. Maybe if you got 4 shots instead of 2. Or to put it another way, it can hit yes, but can it wound? (Maybe)
@mathiasschulze6148
@mathiasschulze6148 3 ай бұрын
@@KaDargo-uz3ub Yeah...All antitank guns without 14S are not that great. I play a Dark Angels army with Hellblasters and Redemptor Dreadnoughts. If I fight an army with a lot of heavy stuff I take a Stormspeeder Thunderstrike. The +1 to make the plasmafire really good in killing Tanks.
@Youschnoob649
@Youschnoob649 3 ай бұрын
It’s funny because over 10th I’ve fallen into the trap of using all of these at one point or another. Ballistus in ironstorm is decent though when ironstorm was good. Sternguard I wanted to work in Sons of Sang so badly with the sergeant with 5 power fist attacks on the charge but overall the squad just isn’t worth it All of these unit are on the verge of being good Great video
@306461
@306461 2 ай бұрын
My executioner is doing great. I understand the rr's but again i rather have the bigger strgth gun because we do have oaths, +1 hit from certain abilities and etc. At majority u be wounding things on 3+ with a min dmg of 10. But i do agree with a good amount of the list
@davidarcherd9868
@davidarcherd9868 3 ай бұрын
100 points to put 15W, T6, 3+(+1) on an objective is great. Their profile is one that you kind of need to overcommit into getting rid of since they're going to shrug off most anti-infantry attacks. Warhammer is an objective based game, and you can't claim objectives or perform actions if you're dead. These guys are going to last many turns without sincere dedication to remove them.
@xeticus5435
@xeticus5435 3 ай бұрын
They basically need anti-tank weapons to kill them quickly.
@william9557
@william9557 3 ай бұрын
100% this. They swattwd away bloodletters like there was no tomorrow on an objective. Was playing supply drop, so was funny watching them push through daemons to keep the objective
@Killjoy120
@Killjoy120 3 ай бұрын
Agreed! I run HI’s competitively, but they’re such a great distraction unit. People have to over commit massively to get rid of them, whilst ignoring things with infinitely more threat!
@PostmanApocalypse
@PostmanApocalypse 3 ай бұрын
I have had a lot of luck with them camping on my home objective and taking pot shots as the battle draws on and the enemy forgets that they have decent shooting! They are cheap enough so you don't feel like they have to carry the game for you but they are tough enough, as you said, to have to over commit to get rid of them. They just do what I want them to reliably!
@xeticus5435
@xeticus5435 3 ай бұрын
@@PostmanApocalypse That is it. They are reliable. They are really durable and they have okay shooting.They make great ablative wounds for a Gravis Captain or with a Biologis they will add some extra damage. They are good and reliable for the points. I think they are top tier for battleline.
@RSBurgener
@RSBurgener 3 ай бұрын
I was really looking forward to Sternguard Vets, by I never bought them. It seems like Hellblasters fill their role much, much better. It's a shame. I still want the models!
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
If you like them - I highly recommend to get them anyway. They are new models that are currently unpopular. Know what it means? It means that they will certainly become extra good sometime in the future when there is too much stock of them in the warehouses😁
@RSBurgener
@RSBurgener 3 ай бұрын
@@vfminiatures I like your thinking 👍. I am starting a Blood Angels Successor Chapter and these guys would look great.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
@RSBurgener oh yeah, give them some of those death mask helmets and some ornamental shoulder pads 🤩
@RSBurgener
@RSBurgener 3 ай бұрын
@@vfminiatures I'm gonna do it. I was always more of a narrative guy anyway
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
@@RSBurgener 💪💪💪 let me know how it turns out, I’d love to see them
@williamdavis7706
@williamdavis7706 3 ай бұрын
Sternguard are still good extra melee attack as well as extra shooting, I run with Azrael and a lieutenant for lethal sustained
@rileydeacon5688
@rileydeacon5688 2 ай бұрын
I'm curious about the lieutenant, doesn't the lethal hits sort of counteract the dev wounds
@АнуарБайдыбеков-ч4ф
@АнуарБайдыбеков-ч4ф 3 ай бұрын
Just for rofls, i create a roster only with this dudes. On saturday going to the tournament)
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
Good luck 🤗🤗🤗
@shadowywarrior
@shadowywarrior 3 ай бұрын
i disagree with the eliminators, the reason i disagree is the very same reason you wanted to place them down as a an issue. Which is the Carbine. Their move shoot move ability can be incredibly powerful when trying to get onto an objective. even if they don't kill a character, plink damage or incidental damage when it happens is nice, and if it kills, a great bonus. But other than that, i want them to do actions and get on points i'm also confused with the lancer. "Essentially full reroll to hit, wound, and damage, which is not true. they reroll one dice in each category, across their entire weapon line. This is why we generally shoot the laser destroyer first, because this is where this rr actually make the most difference.
@william9557
@william9557 3 ай бұрын
Sternguard are anti elite with devastating wounds gallore. They just need their rule to be reroll 1s on wound and then full reroll vs oath target Heavy intercessors are actually great for soaking wounds, and they quite tough for their points cost. I have had them smack down bloodthirsters in melee and not get touched, and they just dont die. Ballistus dread is basically a budget lancer, and if you dont have the 20 points to jump into one, theyll do the job well. Eliminators are sadly trash and I wish they were better. Exectioner is just covered in guns. Its actually quite deadly in ironstorm with mercy is weakness. Chip a wound off and watch it "execute".
@jakubmizerski5685
@jakubmizerski5685 3 ай бұрын
This
@xeticus5435
@xeticus5435 3 ай бұрын
And give them a Biologis and pile on the Lethal Wounds.
@DaveMcMuffin
@DaveMcMuffin 3 ай бұрын
Back when i was trying to decide my chapter, I bought the box for imperial fists and it is the only buy I regret since I don't use the units that i got from that.
@SPedneau
@SPedneau 3 ай бұрын
My Ballistus has been a decent multi purpose long range support.
@TheStreetad
@TheStreetad Ай бұрын
Counterpoint - the big gun makes the Executioner look so much less goofy than the standard Repulsor.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures Ай бұрын
Totally agree - Rep Ex is 100% nicer looking tank
@Aidemusss
@Aidemusss 3 ай бұрын
1.- Sternguard: They had their time, now you may use them to combo fire discipline but agressors are better for that. Simply not the best pick right now 2.-Heavy Intercessors: Actually they can work in some specifcly scenarios. They will resist indirect fire quite well, so wont be an option for the opponent to delete them via long shooting. If youre using melee chapters and position yourself well you will be scoring primaries better than opponent. This guys can prevent the enemys secret mision "war of atrittion" better than regular intercessors. In any other scenario i would pick the cheaper option or infiltrators. 3.-Repulsor... Only in Iron Hand detachment. Can be nice if you have a melee epic hero leading 5 assault intercessors, otherwise pretty fragile for the cost. 4.- Eliminators: I cannot imagine this unit being useful or best pick in any composition. Simply too expensive for what they do. 5.- Ballistus: I think is the best vehicule for guarding a no mans land objetive and shooting from there at same time. Durability for pirze is quite good and damage (2 laser + 2 rockets) can be decent with anti-´horde function. In IronHands they are brutal, rerolling to hit and 1 dice to wound if necesary.
@noahgassler746
@noahgassler746 3 ай бұрын
If combi-weapons hadn't been completely gutted in 10e, Sternguard would be great.
@marauder340
@marauder340 3 ай бұрын
Main benefit of the Ballistus is the points cost. 20pts isn't much but sometimes you want to invest in a different unit but don't want to give up anti-tank capability. Easier to think of it as a primaris dreadnought equivalent of a Predator which costs 130. Spot on with the Heavy Intercessors. They aren't great as an individual unit, but feel better when you think of what the enemy may have to waste to gun the unit down in one round of shooting and possibly drawing that heat off of your greater threats.
@icklemoo
@icklemoo 2 ай бұрын
10 heavy intercessors with iron father ferrios .. gives them that sweet 5++FNP , pop AOC on them and enjoy a bullet sponge ..
@aariuswins
@aariuswins 3 ай бұрын
Ballistus with Vanguard Spearhead is survivable.
@Sharksvsnids
@Sharksvsnids 3 ай бұрын
I play vanguard spearhead and I love my ballistus so much I just bought a second one. All my vehicles have a 2+ save lol
@treymartinez7398
@treymartinez7398 3 ай бұрын
So my guy i really wanted to run this by you just cause the wording can be argued check out Tigarus and Gilliman's author of the codex due to tigarus wording specifically states fire over watch 0 cp and gillimen isnt the same stated if already triggered can be used for 0 cp again is something preventing this cause i thought only the captain models were effected not the name characters with specificate wording
@flokrause2895
@flokrause2895 2 ай бұрын
I just prefer rule of cool, and therefore I have Eliminators still in use for Raven Guard reasons... Sometimes they even shine clearing an objektive
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 2 ай бұрын
Way to go!
@Tostaky777
@Tostaky777 3 ай бұрын
Agree for ALL you said. Everything makes sense. BUT .... about the balistus it is a bit debatable. Balistus is walker easier to manoeuvre. It has a 2 + For units not having INV save it makes a big difference. Also balistus ALL rerool to hits, so potentially 4 hits. All that you already mentioned it, I know. One of your main argument is saying that the long range of the lancer makes the difference. However in WTC map it is quite rare that you can enjoy a safe LOS at 72. Finally, 20 points less can make a difference. But I agree yes, lancer is better overall, but it is suprising to see the balistus is this TOP shame unit :)
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
Thank you! Actually most people don’t realize it but in this case number one is the unit that is closest to being good, not the worst. I should’ve explained it better in the video 😂
@Tostaky777
@Tostaky777 3 ай бұрын
@@vfminiatures Thx for your answer and your great videos. Lol no : you really explained very well. Just to clarify and I am sure you agree : if a guy got a balistus from leviathan box and have other stuff to buy, he can have an "efficient enough" antitank and buying a gladiator should not be a priority. After ... I would never buy a balistus box, I agree. When I think about all the beginners like me who bough Leviathan box because they saw this great looking model. You broke some hearts hahaha.
@Naddabeht
@Naddabeht 2 ай бұрын
So GW agreed with this video. Heavy Intercessors down 5 points and Ballistus Dread down 10 points in the October points update.
@40kDad
@40kDad 3 ай бұрын
Love the channel, but have to disagree with the Ballistus, for 4 reasons: 1 It does not need oath, 2 it has 4 good shots, 2 of which can do anti hoard, / chaff, 3 its 20 points cheaper than a Lancer, 4 its 2+ save. Two Ballistus offer a good long range shooting platform that covers firing lanes, is more survivable than the Lancer, has more shots and can do anti hoard. Yes the Lancer can rr 1 dice from each part of shooting, but the Ballistus can rr all 4 long range weapons shots, not just 1, and as you have to hit before you can wound and roll damage, I would rather have 4 chances to wound than 2. When I play Gladius I use 2 of these and they have not let me down yet. Also Heavy Intercessors with a captain at 280 points in Gladius or Vanguard pretty much hold your expansion objective or mid board unless your opponent fully commits some real units to take them out. Which leaves them exposed to your follow up attacks. While not an auto take by any means if you want a unit that just says "I'm here scoring primary what are you going to do about it?" these guys are pretty good, especially with AOC free from the captain for a 2+ save.
@Archeo-lore
@Archeo-lore 3 ай бұрын
Can’t agree on the executioner, I brought it to a 1,000 point game against other space marines and it wiped 760 points worth of the list of terminators and Inceptors.
@DaGwimWeaper
@DaGwimWeaper 3 ай бұрын
At a 1000 points the game is NOT balanced or optimized. Synergies aren’t there to back up units who have flaws in certain areas, such as dealing with current Armored Vehicles and Monsters. So it begs the question: you’re THAT guy aren’t you?
@Archeo-lore
@Archeo-lore 3 ай бұрын
@@DaGwimWeaper hardly I took mostly Phobos infantry which was getting slaughtered by his terminators and heavier infantry, my executioner was my only source of heavy firepower to fight his terminators and I was lucky with rolls so hardly the behaviour of ‘that guy’ :) Besides he also brought a redemptor dreadnought so the idea of abusing the vehicles falls flat
@bored9260
@bored9260 2 ай бұрын
🤷‍♂️ it has the key term smoke on it. it’s a sniper on war-hounds that can be in the open, the heavy intercessor is battle lines… it does better damage at range then all the other even more so if you stack a squad a ten for denying opponents 1 to 2 turns for 100 points. you arent thinking tactical. the repulsor execution is better in all aspect where damage is there.
@Scarhandpainting
@Scarhandpainting 3 ай бұрын
Wow - if only I could give five likes, cuz I found myself nodding my head in agreement with every new unit mentioned. I used to play Ballistus, Eliminators and Rep.Ex extensively but with time they all got phased out because of unclear role and other stuff doing the same thing faster, harder, better, cheaper... Heavy Intercessors were never my way to go, but the SternVets - I got lucky, did not paint before they died a horrible nerf death. They patiently await better times.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
Thank you! ☺️
@FirstLegion123
@FirstLegion123 3 ай бұрын
I have such terrible luck with the ballistus dreadnought. Every game I use it, feels like a point deficit for myself. Consistently does no damage. Maybe it's just me tho haha
@azrael1045
@azrael1045 3 ай бұрын
My sternguard vets got turned into 3 ICC, 1 Lieutenant, and a guy with a heavy bolter
@Abaddon1590
@Abaddon1590 3 ай бұрын
Extra bladeguard bodies for a 6-man, a lieutenant, and a body yet-to-be-used for me. lol
@Mark.Matthews
@Mark.Matthews 3 ай бұрын
Man i love your style of content and how its all presented. Beginners and vets alike all catching lessons
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! Comments like this are extremely motivating 💪💪💪
@basteala525
@basteala525 2 ай бұрын
The gutting of the Sternguard, to this day, breaks my heart. Fucking GW.
@troy6882
@troy6882 3 ай бұрын
Heavy incinerator are costly but the range and selection with the hellstorm bolter to A wasn't bad. Especially if you add a mod to the sergeant with a aggressor flamer gauntlet the others the bolter be nice to see a left power fist and twin plasma raipd on those ball backpacks 😃😄😁😆😅 5 Smile's
@Theepicman131
@Theepicman131 2 ай бұрын
Legitimately if they changed the re-roll 1s of the sternguard to a full reroll they would be pretty spicy.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 2 ай бұрын
True
@joshwharton1803
@joshwharton1803 2 ай бұрын
I'm not a marine player and even I can see the benefits of the HI. 20pts extra than normal intercessors you get increased toughness, increased wounds, increased saves and they shoot better. Then add onto that the opponent (me) now has to dedicate some of my anti elite shooting into the HI instead of other priority targets like terminators etc it's a no brainer. 20ts extra for 1 unit that can tank abit more than the average squad yes please
@eidannishidan3794
@eidannishidan3794 2 ай бұрын
Nice, i'm starting a Raven guard army, almost all my unit choice are trash tier or on all list to dont play. i'm gonna have a really good win rate lol
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 2 ай бұрын
@@eidannishidan3794 don’t despair - you cunning and stealth will keep you safe 🤗😅
@Saubaer
@Saubaer 25 күн бұрын
I think it is kind of sad that some units underperform so much. Rule of Cool should not need to exist, they should be all balanced regardless inside a codex.
@damonhoxer1309
@damonhoxer1309 3 ай бұрын
I use the ballistus and repulsor ex and I find them to be my strongest units, but in all fairness I play ironstorm against titanic orks and I need strong anti tank lol
@mossy768
@mossy768 3 ай бұрын
Sternguard Vets would be much more versatile if they made combi-weapons function like they used to in previous editions. Drives me nuts with what they did to combi-weapons in 10th
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
True, it would so much cooler
@McFatson
@McFatson 3 ай бұрын
Ahh well. I still like my Ballistus, and it's certainly going to work with my Predator as my ranged armor options.
@McFatson
@McFatson 3 ай бұрын
But holy shit primaris space marine tanks are overpriced for their point value. I'm about to glue Tau hoverpads to a rhino and hope no one notices the jank on my "impulsor" lmao
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
@McFatson that they are, for sure
@brmckee84
@brmckee84 27 күн бұрын
I think you aren't seeing the versatility of the Ballistus.... it's frag missile is legit vs hordes. Lancer doesn't really have an equivalent... also latest balance update has dropped it to 130 pts.... i feel like its a steal right now for such a beefy boy that can lay down that sort of firepower.
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 27 күн бұрын
I understand what people see in the Ballistus - especially at 130, but still I want people to be cautious with their expectations.
@brmckee84
@brmckee84 27 күн бұрын
@ Fair. I think it definitely has a place as a well costed sturdy fire support platform. I also like a 5 man squad of heavy intercessors with a gravis captain on the backfield objective. Hold it down and generate CP. Move them up turn 3 if the backfield is looking safe and midfield needs some support to bring it home.
@benjaminrogers8875
@benjaminrogers8875 2 ай бұрын
That just means they're cheaper than normal secondhand, ready for use when they get good again.
@Michaelkayslay
@Michaelkayslay 3 ай бұрын
Okay okay. You finally missed ! Eliminators are elite my guy!!! I still love you though
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
Thanks 🤗 What do you mean by “elite”?
@Michaelkayslay
@Michaelkayslay 3 ай бұрын
@vfminiatures I have head shot many a necron lord using eliminators They are so worth it to knock off buff heros They greatbagainst necrons and space marines players
@vfminiatures
@vfminiatures 3 ай бұрын
@Michaelkayslay got it, I love them as well, just felt they are underwhelming currently, glad they work for you🤗
@subterreanhighrise
@subterreanhighrise 3 ай бұрын
In my last game of Deathwatch Black Spear a unit of Heavy Intercessors held an objective in No Mans Land (not the center one and it had a bit of cover) for 2 full turns even though my Ultrasmurf opponent dedicated some real firepower to get rid of them. They are a damage sponge and any unit that shoots them instead of my DW Terminators on the center objective is welcome. 100p is a good price for their durability and with some SIA and Black Spear enhancements they do a reasonable job ... too bad Deathwatch was killed by GW. I will keep using them with my friends for the time being. No way I'm switching to IA with my 3k+ army and losing pretty much 75% of it.
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