ToSeven DM01 motor tests

Trail testing of the new DM01 motor from ToSeven. This is a replacement for Bafang BBSHD that everybody was waiting for.
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:10 On the trail
5:36 Throttle operation
7:04 Comparison with other motors
11:10 Summary

[@mickp10]

Thanks for the review. Interested in seeing how these ToSeven motors.

[@nobrakes7247]

Thanks for the videos my brother Could you answer these 3 questions for me Is the Q factor of both cranks even or is the right side a little wider? How is the chain line ? Is there any reason you can see for not running the smallest possible chainring for the current spider bolt pattern or does it look like there is a limit for some reason Smallest available 110bcd is 33tooth

[@LierskogenEbikes]

I didn't pay attention to Q factor. Chain line is OK. More or less chain is straight on the middle gear. If you plan to mount smaller chainring with offset, than it will rub against main gear sprocket cover. I checked 42T chainring with 10mm offset and it touches the cover. I bought 40T narrow-wide chainring without offset to see how this will work.

[@katlee5879]

Hello, this is to7motor factory, both cranks are even; chain line is 50mm; if CL is 50mm, then DM01 requests 46T, DM02 requests 42T, if CL is 59mm， chainring above 36T can be matched, such as: 36t, 38T, 40T, 42T, 48T, e.t.c

[@onotsamada]

Good video thank you. Any chance of doing an update video using the latest firmware and if torque nuances have improved vs cyc since 9 months ago?

[@LierskogenEbikes]

I will check it out, when I finish refurbishment of the new workshop.

[@jacekrutkowski1779]

Cześć, chciałem zapytać czy tensometr działa u Ciebie prawidłowo? Motor wydaję się ciekawą opcja, natomiast na forach piszą, że działa tylko na na pas nawet po włączeniu trybu TorqueSensor?

[@LierskogenEbikes]

ToSeven jeszcze cos majstruje przy opcjach tensometru, wiec nie dziala to jeszcze tak dobrze jak w kontrolerach ASI. Ostatnio na przyklad dodali opcje regulacji oddanej mocy w stosunku do sily nacisku. W moim motorze ustawili maksymalną wartość, ale nie moge jej póki co zmienić.

[@tomekborucki1120]

Gdybyś miał zrobić listę "dziedziczenia" ile elementów w silniku pochodzi z tsdz? Ile z bafanga? Niebieski "tryb" jest wymieniany jako jeden z najbardziej awaryjnych elementów tsdz, w przypadku bafanga - kontroler w 750tkach. Pytam o to ponieważ z kontrolerami bbs02b miałem masę problemów (ostatecznie skończyłem z tym przez kupno bbshd) a tsdz 750 był wybitnie awaryjny, a do tego głośny i BARDZO słaby.

[@Shreddykruger]

Did you notice that it çlimbs better in eco mode than it does in sport.on my motor sport has a higher top end speed and battery power draw.but eco has a better low torq but will still pull the full amps in setting 5.cant wait to experiment with the advance settings once twoseven release some instructions in English. Fir now I'm just going to ride it as original.

[@LierskogenEbikes]

I made separate video showing how to change settings on screen. Change the defualt ones, because they are rubish. You can tune this motor to very fine detail.

[@tanveerali2630]

I would love to install on my bike 🎉😊

[@LierskogenEbikes]

Nothing is stopping you, unless you don't have any money.

[@MHH3180]

Do you feel the shift sensor is necessary? I have never had a problem with TSDZW or Ananda motors without. Many buiilds for customers

[@LierskogenEbikes]

I felt it was necessary in the motor firmware version from May 2023. But I did recently conversion for the client with the latest version from September and motor works much smoother than before. Motor reacts much better to the applied torque level. What is even better, you can regulate in advanced settings how much power is taken off from motor when you do the gear shift with shift sensor engaged.

[@mikethomas6051]

There would be a difference due to the torque power, tongsheng motors aren't doing 160nm, there strongest motor can only put out 80nm, whilst Dm01 is rated at 160nm like the bbshd, not sure how much the torque sensing works in relation to how much torque is applied but i would imagine it ramps up with cadence.

[@pxl666]

great stuff you've done here . are you going to get dm02 too ? dm01 is kinda huge ...lots of clearance is going bye bye...can we know where did you buy it ? you might share some thoughts on dedicated thread at endless sphere forum

[@LierskogenEbikes]

Maybe I will order DM02 as well for tests, it's very similar to TSDZ2. I bought actually two DM01 motors from PSWpower and ToSeven. Motor from PSWpower had non-functional (most probably broken) torque sensor. Than I got a new one directly from ToSeven and that one is good. Looks like PSWpower has some early test models on sale.

[@pxl666]

@@LierskogenEbikes toseven sells them via email or website ? they come from China directly ?

[@tomekvcd7795]

@@LierskogenEbikes to już nie muszę pytać, dlaczego na poprzednim filmie był silnik niebrandowany, a tu już z naklejką toseven. Wniosek - na obecną chwilę omijać PSW.

[@ryoukokonpaku1575]

@@LierskogenEbikes I'm curious on the DM02 as well. I'm looking for a something like tsdz2 and hope the DM02 has better build quality and heat management despite being the same design. I don't really mind the max power since I'm quite happy with my tsdz2 even at 250w but want the ground clearance it has to avoid hitting stuff on the trails near here. Seems much quieter as well from what I can see which isn't really something I mind but is a nice plus.

[@ataksnajpera]

Will you be able to show us how it looks inside? Does it have plastic gears like TSDZ2?

[@LierskogenEbikes]

I made a review film already showing all internals. Check the playlist.

[@ataksnajpera]

@@LierskogenEbikes Ok! Thanks!

[@Florisz11]

Thanks for the review. I see that the DM01 is offered in a 750W or 1000W version with an 200gr weight difference only(5.8kg vs 6kg). Which version have you got? In the comments I see you said 6kg for the motor.

[@LierskogenEbikes]

I have 1000W version.

[@kit6580]

@@LierskogenEbikes Any news on your side ?

[@lokz9632]

Good test, but I must say it is sometimes hard to understand what you are saying because of the noise. About DM01, do you think it is too heavy on the bike without assist? Did you try to pedal without motor? Do you feel much resistence on pedals or noise when motor is off? Looking forward DM02 tests!

[@LierskogenEbikes]

Sound on these GoPro cameras could be better. Hard to get good quality without external mics. Motor weight is 6 kg. Bike itself is fairly light (it's alu frame) and battery is fairly small, so the whole set is actually not that heavy. I haven't checked the total weight though. DM01 has dual clutch mechanism, so it has small resistance for pedaling. Far easier to pedal without power comparing to BBSHD. BBSHD and BBS02 have just one clutch.

[@lokz9632]

@@LierskogenEbikes Do you know if DM02 has dual clutch too? I mean, is it the same low resistance on pedals as DM01?

[@ataksnajpera]

@@LierskogenEbikes Which one has the lowest resistance: CYC STEALTH , BBSHD or DM01?

[@LierskogenEbikes]

@@ataksnajpera I think DM01

[@ataksnajpera]

@@LierskogenEbikes That's funny because I do not feel any resistance on my STEALTH. I have broken ASI BAC855 controller so I'm forced to ride without any assistance. (CYC X6 controller is on the way)

[@Shreddykruger]

Hi when you first fitted the motor and tested it without a chain.did it make a slight rumbling sound reverberation through the frame. Iv just fitted mine today and it is fairly noisy considering it's meant to be quieter than a tongsheng thanks

[@Shreddykruger]

Iv not ridden it yet just ran it in the frame, I'm hopeing it will not have the rumble once the chain is pulling the rear wheel around. It seem to only be at full revs when it makes the rumble sounds

[@LierskogenEbikes]

It depends a lot on your frame stiffness and how motor is touching it.

[@syntxansyntxan7543]

The only chainring that comes with the kit is too big to climb mountains, the ideal would be a 32t or 34t

[@LierskogenEbikes]

Could be smaller, I agree. 42t like in TSDZ2 would be perfect. At least torque is good, so it's not a big problem.

[@shacker45]

Where can I buy one of these?

[@LierskogenEbikes]

Directly from ToSeven or from me, if you are located in Norway.

[@syntxansyntxan7543]

I think that 42t is a problem to climb mountains without pedaling, I don't know if you understand the configurations of the chainrings and sprockets, to climb mountains the smaller the chainring goes the better and the bigger the cog goes better, less effort for the motor and less battery consumption.

[@LierskogenEbikes]

I've built and tested dozens of different configurations for the 4 last years. It all depends on how much torque you can get from motor. Higher torque gives more flexibility. Anyway, if you want to have good climbing rig, than you need motor with min. let say 150 Nm torque and at least 2-3 kW motor. This DM01 is not meant to be driven on throttle only, that's why ToSeven design it with torque sensor.

[@syntxansyntxan7543]

@@LierskogenEbikes ok thanks

[@syntxansyntxan7543]

@@LierskogenEbikes This has been answered on the High Voltage channel.I think it would climb a mountain just with the throttle. The acceleration on the slope would be a bit more sluggish than with the pedal assist though. Because with that you can help the motor get up to speed with your own effort as well. I do have a smaller chainring which I could swap on for sure. I could also use a larger gear at the back.

[@cilami]

​​​@@LierskogenEbikesVery interesting. So, which 2-3kW and 150 Nm torque motor would you recommend to buy now?

[@kalef1234]

I'm sure at a 0.33 gear ratio it would do throttle only 😅

[@LanceMcGrew]

I would think this kind of riding is hard on the prostate?

[@LierskogenEbikes]

You mean harsh terrain riding? That is nothing. Look at downhill riders :)

[@MHH3180]

I've started a ToSeven fans page for those who have more to share.

[@Alex-uh1mj]

where?

[@LierskogenEbikes]

Give us the link then please :)

[@Shreddykruger]

Sorry i mesnt the tongsheng cadence limit not the bafang you end up pedaling dead air on a bafang so its cadence limit is different to a torq sensor cadence restrictor.

[@LierskogenEbikes]

What was your question once again?

[@Shreddykruger]

Does the new motor have a significant cadence limit like the tongsheng once its at its full climbing power it will not except any more help from the rider almost like your pushing against the magnetic field of the motormagnets.

[@LierskogenEbikes]

@@Shreddykruger You can set max cadence limit yourself on the screen. Max is 150 RPM as I remember.

[@wapiti128]

What is that clicking/ratchet noise and what makes it happen... just coasting?

[@LierskogenEbikes]

There is a ratchet mechanism in the back wheel hub. You have it in every bike with standard type casette.

[@wapiti128]

@@LierskogenEbikes wow... that's loud!

[@albertmonsieur7832]

seems kind of loud (compared to bafang)

[@LierskogenEbikes]

This is nothing. Hear the CYC Stealth, this is noisy motor. At least the first generation.

[@JoLe1991]

i also got hands on a DM 01, it's no louder than the bbshd, but i think proper grease will get the noise down even further. the white lithium grease in the DM-01 seems inappropriate for gear lubrication. disassembly is easier than with bbs motors

[@syntxansyntxan7543]

that has too big a plate to climb mountains?

[@LierskogenEbikes]

What do you mean "a plate"?

[@sj-wl8pr]

Not very quiet motor

[@JoLe1991]

i also have this motor freshly installed on my bike now. I swapped all the grease with my special blend as I always do with these motors. the noise is definitely higher than on the BBS02 and the reason is the twice as high nmotor speed which results in double the pitch of the sound, which is more audible. on the dm01 you mostly hear the motor pinion gear/ nylon gear friction, on the BBS02 you hear the large metal gear, if poorly lubricated. and despite the higher pitch of the DM-01, the sound is pretty bold and doesn't sound cheap (thin straight cut plastic gears) like some of the retail emtb motors

[@sj-wl8pr]

@JoLe1991 thanks for the input, interested to know what grease you use. Currently have been running the tdz02 for years, interested in the dm02 and hoping it's more sturdy

[@JoLe1991]

@@sj-wl8pr the tsdz2 seems to have large mechanical tolerances...the crankshaft is a bit wobbly. i use Lucas x-treme heavy duty grease spiked with a generous amount of ptfe powder and some synthetic gear oil (85W) to make the grease a bit more fluid. the grease is polyurea shear strength thickened. i haven't tested lucas marine, but that might also be a good choice. the grease needs to adhere well to metal and plastic gears, withstand high pressure and be fluid enough to not generate excessive drag (and therefore heat). I have to say that the stock grease on bafang is better than in the DM-01, at least they use mineral based MoS2 grease for the large metal gear. in any case if you want to have the longest service interval and least wear, you have to put in a high performance grease. ideally even in the bearings