Totally Not A Podcast #12 - TRUE STRENGTH

[@Wrath669]

The absolute chads using art that isn't a spoiler in their thumbnail, even 5 days after the episode went up. Thank you.

[@ka1ock]

I don't rememberer the last time I got so sad about being spoiled, and it was a trusted creator.

[@TheRozenKnight]

@@ka1ock I am very sure i know which one it was....and same

[@OakBlu]

Seriously dude, by some miracle I didn't get spoiled even though I didn't watch the episode immediately, but people have been waiting legit 20+ years for this moment. It's a once in a life time thing if you're a hard-core dragon ball fan. Content creators can be so inconsiderate

[@TheRozenKnight]

@@OakBlu It was a rather selfcentered decision thats for sure. Good for Clicks but bad for everyone else.

[@wbrodie55]

​@TheRozenKnight had to unsubscribe and hide his channel jic.

[@robinsonsonic]

Gotta mention how much I appreciate you guys, even days after the episode's premiere not spoiling anything with the title and thumbnail. I work early to late every week day and had the big moment spoiled for me by a channel I'm not subbed to anymore. Just wanted to type my appreciation!

[@S31KO.]

I think there are character implications in this fight. Vegeta before slaughtered the Namekians and took the Dragon Balls by force. This time he took part in a martial arts contest and challenge, and earned the Dragon Ball with his own efforts. I think this fight demonstrates his growth as a martial artist and person. I don’t think Neva being there with the Namek backdrop is a coincidence either.

[@Aquillius]

Solid take.

[@AlphaNeedsADiet]

Another thing I feel like he also knows the weakness of ssj3 and took no chances and finished this fight quick asf. The fact that he didn’t talk shi either just straight hands was so cold to me at least

[@theradionicrevival8068]

it's a great take! tho i feel it's one of those cases where a stroy just has holes and flaws and the fans have to make stuff up to make it work. if what you're saying was/is indeed true, thats another story. but ion wanna give the series credit for something you thought up if theres not much to back it up lol

[@AlphaNeedsADiet]

@@theradionicrevival8068 how is that a hole of story? We’ve seen how ssj3 works by Goku against majin buu. It’s almost like the kaioken, it ups the stakes with how difficult it is to use. But we have always seen Vegeta take fights on a different approach than Goku does. Like for ONE example… against frieza in RF: he immidietly goes for the kill wasting no time against frieza. We know how Vegeta is when he knows he’s way stronger than someone, but here there was a change. No shit talk, no bullshit. Just pure silenced attack. That’s not making my own head cannon. That is in vegetas character and shows he’s aware of its drawbacks. He litteraly tells Goku after this fight he doesn’t need a medibug.

[@theradionicrevival8068]

@@AlphaNeedsADiet I just mean it was never really implied or explictly confirmed, its a good headcanon! one i'm adopting lol. i'm giving credit to the guy who made it, S31KO It's like giving db credit for stuff like "the reason gohan couldn't dodge was because he had vision issues and needed glasses the whole time" over the fans who came up with it

[@JMotion]

Nobody pointed it out, but Vegeta refusing to eat the bug because he's "more refined" now, is absolutely setting up for Vegeta not wanting to fuse again, right? They're totally planting that seed there that Vegeta won't want to eat the join bug because it's gross, and there's gonna be a whole thing with Goku trying to convince him.

[@vodkawhisperer3923]

But what if vegeta is the one who proposes the idea instead? Im pretty sure he does that in GT

[@jollyd.joestar3937]

@vodkawhisperer3923which was an anomaly, almost every other time Vegeta is reluctant

[@aWhysGuy]

I thought the point of the Vegeta vs T2 section was to show Neva’s true strength, and the point of Duu vs T3 was actually to show Kuu’s true strength…

[@_ac39]

That's how I read it, too. Like the parallels were support, like they said, but I think they're missing the important aspects of the support. Neva waved his hands for 2 seconds and beefed up the Tamagami 2 to require SSJ3 to defeat it. This was also a chance to give Vegeta an adjustment episode like Goku had.

[@javierortiz6128]

At 32:10 Mark references a fan pointing out a “Vegeto” type move with the knee block. Did nobody else take this as foreshadowing for mini SS3 Vegeto? Because that’s where i went upon seeing him do that move.

[@YoruYoruYoruYoruYoru]

That's not how foreshadowing works

[@PalPlays]

Look at the symbolism in the background of Tamagami 2. The One-Star Dragon Ball is cracked.

[@Vyhox2000]

I'm just glad Diddy Hybis didn't hit on any children this episode

[@franciscoadasilvajr4514]

My stuff with SSJ3 (that don't apply ONLY for Gotenks) is that every use of SSJ3 should be count down on seconds Should be the "ult", the ultra mega boost that you only have a few moments into it. You charged, you do your best move and then hope the fight it's over

[@caimanders3380]

I love kuu and duu so much. If they die, i will be so sad. Every time i see the two, i just love their scene and energy, i also agree that we can't have one without the other

[@Hi_Just_Fred]

Imo Battle of Gods actually works great still nudged between Buu and End of Z, because it could give an explanation why Goku feels so aloof in EoZ beyond "He lacked any growth for years." He got a taste of divine power, but ultimately lost to Beerus, but Goku never saw Beerus again and never got a chance to beat him like anyone else. So now with Uub, he can have a new goal to strive towards training Uub to be even stronger and give him great fights again.

[@bine-chan4794]

Did anyone notice how it cuts to a close up of Glorio looking at Goku and Vegeta when they bicker over the bug eating thing? Almost like their bickering reminds him of someone...? Let's hope we'll get a little more light on Glorio's backstory soon and also in general more interesting character interactions now that the tamagami fights are over.

[@Seylom3des32]

Watching y’all talk about stuff in an unedited and very natural manner is very enjoyable

[@MrFatLipx]

One of the major reasons this episode feels so strange is because Vegeta's section almost comes off as the B plot in his own episode, which is just...bizarre. As Ajay said in his animation breakdown video, almost all of the interesting content in terms of animation, direction, and even writing, are in the Duu fight. An extremely strange production decision, to say the least.

[@franciscoadasilvajr4514]

Part of me is sad we aint getting a third brother to finish the "Ed, Edd n Eddy" Majins (plus one being more "Super Buu" design/vibe wise)

[@Hi_Just_Fred]

I've known the Egg & Spoon race thing and I'm a US resident.

[@ASCE56]

I did the egg spoon race damn near every year in school I’m American

[@matthewcurcio2923]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who was bored by this episode

[@MayBeWright]

Hey guys, just wanted to throw a theory out regarding a questionable part of the episode. The mental math challenge by Tamagami 1. You already mentioned that just like the fight it's still a 1-on-1 between him and Duu. So Kuu coming up with the answer would be considered cheating. However, no one else in the vicinity hears or picks up on it. This is confirmed by Arinsu asking why he should be praised for doing nothing. I think this could be a setup for whats to come. Flashback to the episode prior to Kuu being created, Marba says the following, "By including your essence, you can share information without having to speak, and will make it easier to control". In Arinsu's case, her Hawk Buuah (sorry) was used in both Kuu and Duu's creations. But what else was included for both rituals? The Saibaman Seed and Buu. I think it's extremely plausible that because they share one/both, these two would be linked on that level as well. Even if he didn't realize it, Kuu would be able to share the answer with Duu without saying anything.

[@daymm8330]

Good theory 👍🏻

[@fadhlurrakhman7210]

08:30 Agreed

[@Maddoggrants]

We have egg and spoon races. Just not used often but yeah Murica has it to.

[@laserman4096]

Ss3 Vegeta reminds me of trunks going super muscular

[@mattf315]

I really enjoyed the Vegeta fight because of SSJ3 and him getting a win, but I agree with what you guys are saying about the lack of tension. Going in, I had no reason to believe in-universe that Vegeta had any chance of losing this fight. Yes he’s not as strong as Goku at this point but the gap isn’t so wide that Goku stomping Tamagami 3 wouldn’t also mean Vegeta beats T2. Once Neva powers up T2, the tension for me was is Toriyama just using Vegeta to demonstrate someone else’s power and now he’s going to lose again for plot reasons. The tension was meta rather than in-universe. That said, I think the tension should come from within the universe rather than fear of what the writer is doing, but it was enough for me in this case.

[@AlphaNeedsADiet]

Have to disagree with you there, vegeta was ssj2 against a base tamagami. He didn’t even heat up yet, but when neva buffed him up, it was more than their heat up power up.

[@cjsher90]

Was rewatching Mark with MasakoX and Keizer, and he constantly interrupted Masako. I felt bad for our resident DBZA Goku. Love Mark still. But like, he did better here after getting called out.

[@lolkey5494]

My prediction about the ship crashing maybe again i can see that happening i really feel like those scenes in the end when theyre at a small pond n when theyre sleep on a cliff could b in the next episode now we can have an episode where everybody can get more aquainted a cool down epsiode i look forward to n the preview gives me those vibes lets c if im right

[@toonguy1]

asking again. what is the app letting you both draw at the same time?

[@AnimeAjay]

Magma Studio

[@redcomet0079]

I loved the transformation. I’ve been waiting for it 30 yrs, since 1995. Unlike all these Toonami, bandwagon dbz fans, I’ve been watching this show since 1992. All these weirdo gatekeepers would RUIN the franchise if they were put in charge

[@laserman4096]

I think duu and kuu will combine with arinsu to become jenemba

[@SSSNAKEMANNN]

27:14 tbh i feel like tysons not giving toriyama enough credit, I think vegetas hair is MEANT to be similar to that original design, toriyama ended up taking over control of diama and had way more passion in it then super for example and with his work on the broly and super hero movie its safe to say hes not some senile old man its probably been ages since he drew a ssj3 so it makes sense that after all this time of being away from ssj3 and giving it to a new character with similar hair, he would default to his concept style since its what his mind came up with when first thought of a 3rd transformation. "Big hair era" just sounds like a weird cope

[@Nyota7766]

It's here!

[@Midori_Hoshi]

Ad break? The ads are optional. If you don't like ads, then don't watch them.

[@AnimeAjay]

You have woefully misunderstood the point there lol

[@Darkflo23]

51:00 As someone who recently did a nostalgic marathon of GT with friends, please don't. It's better to have nostalgia for it, than to realise how boring and bad it really is, i think there was maybe around 10 episodes i would classifie as good and watchable, the rest is pure slop and weekly villain formula.

[@fhrdgr]

Idk she really just seemed like a maid to me, like she heard commotion and called the guards or something

[@RhysClark97]

9:35 yeah, it felt really redundant. end of last episode, vegeta is swallowed by the kraken...start of this episode: he got out off screen...but is then swallowed AGAIN...he got out.

[@collinberglund387]

I have to mention dbz abridged for what to watch after dbz. The kids have to be old enough though

[@vorathiel12345]

Mario and Luigi is peak comedy, laughed harder than with any Daima jokes xD

[@jamesrosengrant8675]

I was watching this episode with my roommate and we both yelled out "Did he just go beast?!?!" When he transformed

[@DemLep]

It is a fun fight (Vegeta vs Tamagami 2), but Vegeta is bored with the fight and that affects the feeling of the fight. Luckily it is still better than Jiran.

[@barisaxman2]

Vegeta being relegated to being the B plot for a lot of Daima doesn't help. The lack of build up might be a victim of the pacing ramping up.

[@theradionicrevival8068]

yeah i was finna say, obviously still liked the episode but i'm surprised i keep on getting repeated pushback for being a vegeta fan, but not really wanting him in this with episodes like this kinda proving why. i wonder if it's a superhero situation where vegeta was initially going to have a more limited roll before toriyama came in when this was just going to be a web show. so now we have a vegeta and other characters tacked onto a world and story not quite made for them. regardless of wanting him here or not, i feel like since they obviously now knew vegeta would be here. could've helped to make his B plot antics have more focus before this and generally give tamagami 2 a personality and fighting style that brings more out of vegeta. like if it were about as strong as 3, but it was just a WAY better tactian than 1 or 3, maybe it was a huge arrogant jerk, maybe it'd be super noble nice, or dumb and playful but scarily naturally skilled and strong. the tamagmi ver of what's basically goku or vegeta, maybe some water bending or more ties to namekian lore or the ability to control fish. i feel like doing things like introducing the krakken as a stage hazard only to do a way with so soon and so anticlimatically along with vegeta being mildly inconvienced and ending it with a transformation out of nowhere didn't help either.

[@AlphaNeedsADiet]

@@theradionicrevival8068you do realize all of these critisms you have is most likely because your watching this week to week and your not realizing that this story actually has only been like a couple of days so far. Vegeta entering the demon realm and going to the club losing their ship was the all the same day! What else did you want to see??? I think this episode was executed perfectly. With the symbolism of Vegeta actually taking the challenge for a dragonball instead of doing so by force like he did all those years back. And utilizing SSJ3 so well, knowing of its drain. We know vegeta is not like Goku. Hell finish this fight quick. And I think they did this in character for him. Sorry you don’t understand the character.

[@Amplifymagic]

I’m hoping Goku now gets a new form, the only problem is it would fit awkwardly into the current established timeline. Like if he’s obtained something useful here, why wouldn’t it have been mentioned later on? A little plot inconvenience creating prequels.

[@Clay-Chap-Stuff]

Personally I am so tired of them, Super had at least 3 . Aside from Ultra instinct which actually worked well for animated Dragon Ball all transformations do now is allow Goku to fight the brick wall, they are glorified video-game card-Keys at this point only to be discarded for bigger brick wall.

[@Amplifymagic]

@Clay-Chap-Stuff yeah that's a fair point.

[@theradionicrevival8068]

​@Clay-Chap-Stuff the main way to make them work is to just only include them when it's a natural progression of what came before. it really does feel like we just have them for having them's sake. with little clarification on what they can do that's special, what makes them distinct etc the build up for UI helps it clear easily in terms of being iconic because it's the first form in forever that actually had set up and pay off rather than just jumping to it when bored. it didn't even help save the day or anything in the end.

[@theradionicrevival8068]

no shade to the guy but in a earlier stream i debated with someone in chat about how i didn't want to team A and be to link up, namely vegeta because i felt narratively theres not much he can do here. not wanting to them to show up if it's not gonna be narratively, the most interesting i feel pretty vindicated for feeling that way now. the transformation was cool but so much of it felt underwhelming because of whot he fight was happening to. replace vegeta with piccolo v tamagami 2, everyone except goku vs it or just goku vs it again and i feel even with less than stellar presentation it'd still narratively be far more interesting than with vegeta. and vegeta's my favorite character mind you, it's just that he/the franchise from the same problem of just shoving him and characters like him into situations out of obligation "just cause" without much clue on what to do with them so their inclusion feels underhwelming a lot of the time. i love the guy! but if we're gonna include him, it should be something that reaps the most from having vegeta present. something brings something out of him character wise that effects him and those around him in a way that pushes the narrative forward in more than just the physical

[@BladeBloodTear]

The beginning conversation about how the Vegeta fight lacks something is so frustrating because Mark literally tells you and you both disagree then dance around the point that Mark made. Tamagami 2 isn't established for there to be any kind of back and forth and this is also Vegeta's first actual fight both in kid form and in the demon world, but nothing is actually done besides the little banter of tamagami 2 disrespecting Vegeta to cause any kind of tension between them. Even when you compare this fight to the Goku vs tamagami 3 fight, it hits the same bullet points, but the real difference is of Goku warming up between all the fights there and Goku establishing that he was unused to his kid form and gradually getting into his groove with the other episodes. We don't get any of that with Vegeta because he ultimately just shows up. The writers even seem to be aware of this due to them also having vegeta get jumped during the fight and tamagami 2 gets a power boost to give the fight more tension since we lost the unknown factor of how strong the tamagamis are with the previous Goku fight. An easy fix would have been more dialogue with vegeta and tamagami 2 arguing a bit with vegeta stating he doesnt seem that tough in front of Neva, Neva defending his creation some. It would have given the fight more weight since tamagami 2 is fighting in front of his creator and could have been a nicer way of Neva cheating a bit and giving tamagami 2 a boost as he was getting dominated by Vegeta. This also would allow Vegeta to fully be on the backfoot and then whip out ssj 3. They sort of do this, but don't commit due to them juggling the tamagami 1 and Duu stuff and it feels like a bit of a waste.

[@AnimeAjay]

There's no dancing around it, I simply disagree with that being a meaningful issue. For me, the issue is it just isn't structured with any real tension. Throwing in Tamagami characterisation or more Vegeta screen time prior to this wouldn't have solved a damn thing if it still threw Vegeta into the water three times and initiated a transformation with all the direction of a wet fart. The first Tamagami fight also resulted in zero emotional reaction from me either. There is no sense that these battles really matter. How can they? Dende's fine so there's no time pressure, Arinsu and her Majins have yet to show any remote threat... so what's left? A lackadaisical journey back to adulthood whenever they feel like getting around to it. Daima's just kinda flawed at its core in that sense. Without a pressing threat to push the team into action with real pressure, that's never going to change.

[@AlphaNeedsADiet]

@@AnimeAjaydamn ajay, how about instead of saying this in the comments. Bring it up in the podcast don’t be afraid to show your emotions. I know you did this once but if this is a recurring action, bring it up again. I personally disagree, the tension may not be there but the mystery sure is. We are still waiting on what Glorio is going to do, when he is going to do it. Why he will. This criticism may still be from the fact that it’s 20 episodes, and I’m with you there. I wish it were longer. But who knows where this story will go, I hate that we assume. I’m not giving it too much hope, but I just like how we get so much lore, more characters, and overall buildup to what’s going to happen. Tension is not there, yes, but what’s wrong with it building up to it? Now everyone has just found out about them in the demon realm, so it should pick up. But maybe that’s just my stand.

[@AlphaNeedsADiet]

you do realize all of these critisms you have is most likely because your watching this week to week and your not realizing that this story actually has only been like a couple of days so far. Vegeta entering the demon realm and going to the club losing their ship was the all the same day! I think this episode was executed perfectly. With the symbolism of Vegeta actually taking the challenge for a dragonball instead of doing so by force like he did all those years back. And utilizing SSJ3 so well, knowing of its drain. We know vegeta is not like Goku. He even finished this fight quick. And I think they did this in character for him. Sorry you don’t understand the character.

[@vorathiel12345]

Wasn't Toryiama not interested in fights anymore? Like giving creators of super simple 'and now they fight and X wins'? I have a feeling this Vegeta fight was not written by Toryiama as well... And I'm dreading that we will not have any good written fight anymore. Like second half of Broly movie. Just fight, no story. Boring. Hope Daima climax fights will be better and actually plot driven.

[@theradionicrevival8068]

god thank you so much for pointing this out, i get pushback whenever i point it out. but i wonder if this is a gohan in superhero situation where vegeta wasn't going to be in this story before toriyama came along, so now he and a lot of characters were just tacked onto a journey not made for them so everythings clashing like oil in water. a big part of what made goku vs 3 (and vegeta vs cui and 19 work) was because they were fights that fed into something specifically progressed by the specific characters chosen in the fight. tamagami 2 doesn't really have any specific personality or abilities that really bounces off of vegeta to bring something new out of him narratively. so it feels like a pretty vapid curbstomp ntm, when goku fought 3, it was under a context that he was objectively the only one around at the time who could do it. meanwhile vegeta is just taking on a role goku normally would and could do with no problem either so theres not much tension there. he;s filling in a role already able and present meanwhile vegeta wasn't. if we operate back to when 3 was the only tamagami we knew; if goku couldn't do it, they'd genuinely be screwed. if vegeta couldn't beat 2, goku could just take his place and after awhile not only could piccolo maybe do it if they wore it down, he's definitely skilled enough to at minimum give them pointers. that level of a safety net just wasn't there so there was a bit more tension in seeing goku do it himself

[@MrFatLipx]

Just because Toriyama didn't write a fight doesn't mean it can't be written well. The actual writers and show-runners could absolutely fill in the empty space Toriyama leaves, but for this fight they just didn't.

[@AlphaNeedsADiet]

@@theradionicrevival8068vegeta whooping tamagami 2 without wasting any time as he may be aware of ssj3s drawback was awesome. Still don’t understand how ppl can hate on this. Vegeta litteraly turned ssj3 and without a word wasted no time to fuck up this tamagami. I can be with you on your point of how the tamagami needed more personality but also it’s a realm where everyone is dead. I think this fight was amazing, and to me builds up for more Vegeta action. Or Goku and vegeta teamwork. Vegeta said from the start they would be joining them and that’s what he’s doing right now. On you point of how they should’ve showed more for Vegeta, dawg you do realize when they meet Vegeta it’s only been like 2-3 days. Like Vegeta barely got in the realm, what else do you wanna see? Like we got action from Vegeta when he got in the demon realm, but you want more??? What more?, they litteraly meet up right after that.. Swear please watch the show

[@AlphaNeedsADiet]

@@theradionicrevival8068 you do realize all of these critisms you have is most likely because your watching this week to week and your not realizing that this story actually has only been like a couple of days so far. Vegeta entering the demon realm and going to the club losing their ship was the all the same day! What else did you want to see??? I think this episode was executed perfectly. With the symbolism of Vegeta actually taking the challenge for a dragonball instead of doing so by force like he did all those years back. And utilizing SSJ3 so well, knowing of its drain. We know vegeta is not like Goku. Hell finish this fight quick. And I think they did this in character for him. Sorry you don’t understand the character.

[@theradionicrevival8068]

​@@AlphaNeedsADiet "hate?" who said i was hating on anything? i never said that, you did. someone being critical of something doesn't mean they hate it, if anything, it's a testament they can love it over just giving it a "meh" and moving on. it's coming from a place of wanting better, wishing better, EXPECTING better. "but also it’s a realm where everyone" what does that have to do with anything? Duu, arinsu, gomah and kuu are right there. almost every character in daima is brimming with personality and charm. this isn't even the first time we've seen demon and otherworld-adjacent characters, and similar to that, they also have a lot of personality most of the time. that just comes packaged with writing a good character. the series never used the afterlife as an excuse for that, why start now? you're arguing from a watsonian angle (in-universe) i'm critical and coming from a doylist one (IRL). Since they obviously knew vegeta was going to be in the story, it could've helped to solidify that by giving it obstacles that utilize the specifics of what makes vegeta "vegeta". He's literally just filling a role goku would have. the stakes and tension of the first tamagami fight worked since goku was doing something (at the time) only he could do and the fight played out in a way that was informed by goku's character specifically. ntm the epsiodes of buildup showing off goku acclamte to the new realm. yeah of course we're talking about our view on it from a week to week perspective, it's literally the only way we've been able to watch it til now. have you ever considered my opinion may change by the time the series wraps up? all i'm saying is give vegeta stronger reasons to be here, have the conflicts he encounters tie into the parts that make him different from goku. and show off his teams perspective more to make the build up to the fight mean something. it all feels so incosequential due to how quickly it's dealt with. compare the amount of time it got to get tamagami 3 vs 2. it felt very unceremonious to me. and quit with pretentiousness. no, someone disagreeing with you on something isn't indicative of their lack of ability to like or pay attention to show. we watched the same thing, i just got a different view out of it. i feel this is what happens whene you copy and past the same reply to different people expecting it to apply to all of them, one size fits all.