Towards a Metapsychology that is True to Transformation - 2 -Cognitive Science Show

[@Juhziz]

4:35 Key concepts of metapsychology: behavior, mind(mental processes), cognition, consciousness, self. 11:52 Conflicting messages. Towards what should one transform? 15:04 Metapsychology and secular priesthood. Where metaphysics and psychology meet. 24:16 Relevance is between cause and reason. 32:02 Psychology isn't like biology in it's fundamental organization. 39:57 William James, Charles Sanders Peirce, James Mark Baldwin and Watson. Idea of measurable psyche, IQ tests. 43:45 Sandcastle production machine, nonexistant grit and willpower. 45:45 Experiments and psychology. 48:08 Measurements, technology, institutional bureacratic control mechanism. 56:20 Vygotsky. The crisis of psychology in 1899. 1:11:26 Self-destructive ambivalence pattern within a psychology field. 1:13:25 Privilege of innovation over integration. 1:18:56 Replication crisis, yatrogenic spiral of reductive theorizing. 1:23:20 Psychology and technologic trends. 1:32:15 Dimension of mental emerges out of the living world at the animal level. 1:37:42 Agency. Everything behaves. Agent. Self. Person. 1:43:00 Upper level is lower level. Deep continuity.

[@Juhziz]

1:46:58 We are every age the universe has ever been.

[@domenicmolinaro6580]

I've felt suspicions around these problems of psychology, or a long time, and these articulations have made clear what those suspicions have been getting at! Thanks for shining a light on so much murkiness :) I feel like I am getting a true education on so many important and, perhaps, crucial matters

[@raresmircea]

I’ve been watching these vids for a while and besides contributing with great insights Gregg seems to be a fantastic person 👌

[@forecast_hinderer]

To speak from a slightly more basic level of my self, wow, Zach’s final summary though. Great episode all in clearly laying out the problem.

[@wiktor5016]

Thank you, Gregg, Zach and John. I'm currently studying to be a teacher and this series is a perfect complement to my text books.

[@O.G.Rose.Michelle.and.Daniel]

Wonderful and fascinating: I've enjoyed this discussion a lot. It highlights well our need for a theory that "addresses" us, versus just "explain" us. This is also why I like Hegel's Absolute so much, which incorporates "the subject" into our understanding of "the truth." Well done!

[@IngridHurwitz]

💛💛💛 Best way to spend a Friday evening in Johannesburg

[@leedufour]

Thanks Zack, Gregg and John!

[@Soltuts]

When seeking transformation, I found seeking individuals who where expressing examples of the kind of states of being that it is possible to achieve of great importance. Without such examples I felt alone and lost. When I read the book 'Autobiography of a yogi' it opened my eyes to new ways of experiencing the world that I found were deeply at odds with how I was raised to view reality.

[@bradbear]

Thank you for sharing these conversations. The fact that I can keep up with most of it is already a testament that even this is helping with sense making. Gregg, Zack, JV, keep going! I would love to make a sense making clips channel to highlight nuggets of these convos that make you go awe.

[@icekan733]

The layers talked in this dialogos is profoundly a new way of understanding and transformation of the psyche, agency in the arenas through the time of existence. If I wasn't a listener to this conversation, i would have never been able to construct the above propositional sentence. Isn't that a slight self-transformation. So Greatful to be part even as spectator in this great triologocigal discussion. Great work great teachers, thank you!

[@stian.t]

Wow! Heaven! Thanks a million! Of course I'm not able to keep up throughout, but why would that matter that much? This is so dense with marvelous information and new ways of looking at plenty of subjects witch is darn close to my mind, heart & soul. Love it! Looking forward to next week! :-)

[@olivercroft5263]

This conversation feels like a pond, or a large lovely lake, with arranged ripples everywhere. Zach you are one of those cattails sticking above the water, i really love how you are "in to" piaget, it lit my heart up because I'm reading him so closely these days. Also, your eyebrows help the audience keep track of the conversation, reflecting - in, reflecting-on, and reflecting-for Action. John's elucidation on Derrida and cognitive psychology was surprising but very fitting and confirming. I think piaget constructivism program should try but heads with this. Greg you are super articulate and I love your energy input, really keeps the big wheel turning, thanks guys really loved this, I feel like I want to be part of the target audience here.

[@emilthiels6256]

Zachary said what had to be said, that we possessing the "whole" and universal that concept has to be capt as a start in having/or regaining agency Not only intellectual but most of all in being .Thanks to all of you. I take my hat off!

Gregg is an awesome psychologist, he helped you two speak your minds expressively. Haha was funny to realize almost at the end.

[@82472tclt]

I want to talk with Greg more about how the "mental life" emerges out of the animal level. The implications of this spikes as impressive (to say the least!). Great work gentlemen

[@annemariesegeat9397]

Me too! I remember one time hearing you talking with Jordan that you can sense that every country has their specific ''mood''...just like animals may have it too? :)

[@jeffbarney3584]

So good. Zak's point about medical science is deeply in agreement re., the self delusion aspect.

[@zedasamuel7164]

Hey guys. I'm a psychodynamically trained therapist with an undergrad degree in analytical philosophy, dedicated mostly to philosophy of mind and computational networks, and I've been waiting for this conversation for a good 20 years. I can't help but think continually of Heidegger's notion of enframedness and the way in which the so-called evidenced-based practices we're forced into in, for example, MediCal billing in the state where I practice is just a massive red herring. This is the most important conversation I've ever heard. I will continue to listen, but please help me understand how to interface with the conversation itself, because I'm constantly being forced into a framework that assumes Western liberalism as the de facto normative model into which I ought to compel my clients to belief as "mental health," not only unquestioningly, but almost as an a priori way of being-in-the-world as what it is to be human. I have no idea how to do my job!

[@zedasamuel7164]

I’m sorry. I’m not sounding desperate enough. I need this conversation like I need fucking oxygen. I’ve almost given up. I can’t talk to philosophers and I can’t talk to psychologists/therapists. Actually, the only people I can talk to is my clients, because they’re inside this shit. But my practice is utterly stagnating for loss of hope. Please help me.

[@alxsmac733]

John, your critique of the response to the replication crisis is deeply resonant with my academic and professional experience. The mass "data-driven" fetish is largely and often explicitly seen as substitute for the careful theoretical and conceptual explication you're describing, i.e. thinking. Additionally, more data can't even help overcome the litany of common methodological errors committed stemming precisely from a lack of theoretical clarity.

[@Walkabout]

Wow. I loved the deep dives into the (sad) history of psychology. So much to learn there.

[@jeffbarney3584]

@21:15 What is better or worse is not a different question than what is healthy or unhealthy, I would suggest.

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

12:09 this is THE essential question to be answered. The solution has evaded modernity and post-modernity alike

[@johnvervaeke]

Thanks Paul.

[@alxsmac733]

Working as a data scientist, I can personally attest to the pervasiveness of statistical reification. It is a pernicious problem which gets scarcely any attention.

[@annemariesegeat9397]

Wow! I look forward to following along. Thank you! It brings a sense of greater clarity as you are having this much needed conversation. I so agree with how John is putting it into words about the fragmentation of the psychology field… Just as it is in our image… And the methodology as of now, to bring about the wholeness that it brings in other disciplines of the outer world...is in fact creating more fragmentation in psychology. I see, and touch and feel fragmentation in ourselves, in our bodies, in the world, between ourselves...just like I hear it does as I listen to you here, it transpires through our attempt of framing psychology. Could it be the most efficient mechanism that maintains the software of social conditionings of a particular culture? Transformation...the mouvement of defragmentation? Ok I continue, I am just half way through :)

[@Nonconceptuality]

The answer to all questions is the transcendence of thought Systems of thought are designed to CREATE THOUGHT. That's it that's all. All I hear with these philosophical discussions is: "Yes you exist. Do I exist?" "Yes you exist, do I exist?". "Yes... There is no purpose to thought other than to produce thought. No matter how interesting a system of thought is, it is exactly your interest/attention that thought is mining. This is why philosophical discussion NEVER ENDS. This is obvious to egoless consciousness. Not so obvious to folk who can't stop thinking for more that a few seconds at a time

[@evanblackie7510]

An excellent provocation!

[@mencadotranforming4411]

This is only part of an ongoing conversation relatedto the content of thiis video. From Peace Hart: I agree with you here. As far as complaining to boards goes, my personal experience is that one is traumatized. In addition, systems traumatize you. Also systems protect their own vehemently. The complainant process will only add to the trauma, rather than help in some way. I have developed PTSD from the way a court process is going for example, and has left me no time to continue therapy. In reply to Peace Hart : A complication at root of this is existing in that systems themselves - in their not being thinking and feeling beings - have neither any consciousness/ nor any conscience, in and of themselves, and - thus - also have no realization of the fact of their own causing of any harm. More compassionate people are needed to be working on creating more compassionate systems, or - perhaps - to entirely do away with, at least, certain among systems and also - at least - certain among sytematized practices.

[@Mystery_G]

Absolutely wonderful dialogue! Looking forward to more. I don't expect this to be answered here, but a question that came to mind: To what degree do you think the replication crisis and perpetuation of innovation are attributable to 500 years minimum worth of evolving (devolving?) consciousness away from, for lack of better term, attunement with sacred/divine space and an unwitting relationship with a dark shadow (e.g. mammonic or desire for possession) construct?

[@jeffbarney3584]

Zak's finish. Wow! Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny

[@throughhumaneyes7648]

I didn't agree with a lot of the conclusions, but the moments of appeal to the general-ness of many academic disciplines and the insufficiency of many perspectives was refreshing. 1 big problem is that when you make evolution a foundational belief for meaning, you can't make anything by your terms and perspectives any more meaningful than what evolution is in itself: survival for the purpose of survival. Rose colored glasses of self-realization or integration or Nirvana etc etc ultimately only serve as a comfort buffer (whether conscious or subconscious) between your desire to convince yourself that you have a purpose and the evolutionary truth that you have no real purpose since you are just another configuration of matter that happens to this time recognize itself. The drug is the pride of telling yourself you are "integrated" or "changed" when all you have done is termed the conscious construct of your personal narrative. You can't use yourself to change yourself. The only thing left is faith in the belief something outside of material. Nobody sacrifices themselves by jumping on a grenade to save their platoon because they became more "integrated" by doing "self-work".

[@alexandrazachary.musician]

Can you guys recommend good papers on “the replication crisis” please? 🙏🏽❤️ Makes me think of that quote attributed to Einstein “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used to create them.”

[@somesecret]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Most_Published_Research_Findings_Are_False

[@mencadotranforming4411]

Just to put this out there, and to make sure it might in some way reach whomever and wherever it may need to reach : When (or if) the absolutely crucial need for attention to and care for his or her psychological well-being is not sufficiently, authentically, and consistently fulfilled enough for any child, then no amount or power, material wealth, fame, food, popularity, drugs, alcohol, acclaim, accolades, or the like can - nor will - serve that child as being a satisfactory substitute for the fulfillment of those unmet needs. Until and unless those needs do become met, then (no matter how old he or she grows to be) the child's social and emotional development (in the very least) will be stunted, and he or she - accordingly - will not be functioning as someone who is experiencing the condition of psychological well-being. This, in turn, can potentially delay - or otherwise negatively impact - the child's physical, cognitive, and relational development, as well. How much, in how many cases, and in how many different ways the suffering and lostness caused by not having various needs met has led to - equally various - aggressive, violent, and/or categorized as being "criminal behaviors", and as being "criminal actions" having been performed, and to the incarceration and/or the hospitalization - within various medical and/or mental health facilities - and/or to the problem of homelessness, unemployment, drug (whether prescription, non-prescription, or both) use - resulting in drug abuse and to drug addiction - and to various other forms of addiction, as well, is immeasurable.

[@ErnestoEduardoDobarganes]

Thanks for sharing !!!

[@merlepatterson]

Dialectic, science, psychology, human nature, business and money have a hard time mixing. One can puree oil and water in a blender at high speed, but come back in ten minutes to check the results and one finds nature has a way of always finding its settling point irrespective of human interaction. Sometimes things are just better left alone.

[@petriaspvik]

Where could one read more about the points about how certain fields of psychology were branded "over other fields" and why?

[@piddlepond]

It sounds like “measurement based psychology” is analogous to Keynesian economics.

[@_ARCATEC_]

Reactiveness vs Responsiveness 🤔

[@fracta1organism]

couldnt we just say that the fundamental problem at issue is the hegemony of reductionist materialist science over the integrative holistic approach to science and knowledge, and that that hegemony is driven by the institutions of capital and empire which seeks power, profit, and utility? dont get lost in complicated philosophy when identifying the problem and proposing a solution is simple.

[@elel2608]

1:45:00

[@_ARCATEC_]

Inportance

[@f7p1764]

They talk a lot but 90% just noise, they can't just say point of what they what. 10% really golden stuff but you have to be patient. For the host's just watch yourself and learn, you can improve 👍

[@BcClarity]

Spiritual awakening = unmedicated dysthymia

[@jgarciajr82]

yessssssss!!

[@_ARCATEC_]

Re'Membering ØB1

[@_ARCATEC_]

4E COGPSI

[@Orthodoxi]

Belief in God is the only known practice that creates the ability to unify the schisms that our minds otherwise fall to creating. The self deception that denies God rather than co-creating with God is the age old problem of humanity. No doubt we are in an age of reformulation but that cannot happen to my knowledge without God. God in right context. So far that context is not understood and in general God is being dismissed. As you all struggle and your solution continues to elude you, will you ever be willing to seriously consider God again?

[@mediocrates3416]

As long as the relationship with truth is one of respect for necessity rather than the imposition of a lie, we'll be ok.

[@Orthodoxi]

@@mediocrates3416 yes, and you believe we have that? And so we are currently ok?

[@mediocrates3416]

@@Orthodoxi No, by no means is *our* position on this issue clear: i share your concern; i'm trying to maintain a scientific perspective.

[@Orthodoxi]

@@mediocrates3416 Very good. God is in science. Understood in the right context. At some point given time, we will understand this. Cheers.

[@mediocrates3416]

@@Orthodoxi Scientifically speaking, truth might be a person made up of humans in community. Personally, the scientific possibilities are compelling. Cheers!