Toyota & Kenworth are Betting BIG On Hydrogen: But Are They Right?

[@TFLEV]

This video is brought to you by Atomic Wheels, your go-to source for premium, fully-forged rims for EV vehicles. Go to (atomic-wheels.com) and use code TFLEV10 for 10% off your order!

[@GRAFHC]

"I have a CDL..." "so do I" 🤣

[@TFLEV]

That one hurt...

[@GRAFHC]

@@TFLEV Hah, no doubt! They should have let you give it a go, I'd have enjoyed seeing that. Oh well, next time. 👍

[@phillyphil1513]

"DOWN GOES FRAZIER...!!!" ERR... "ANDRE...!!!"

[@TractorJeep]

Boom roasted.

[@daviddenley3512]

I ate mine.

[@mrdsn189]

That driver was hysterical! 🤣 He’s obviously a great guy but you can tell he hasn’t been media trained. 🤣 He really didn’t understand how savvy you are and anticipate the type of info you were trying to pass on.

[@foellerd]

I laughed so hard when he asked Andre, “what do you think”, after racing around a small parking lot with pedestrians and he’s scared to death. We get it, EV’s are fast. It’s everything else that’s a concern.

[@ColJonSquall1]

Should do a spotlight on Topsy from Edison Motors, its their proof of concept of a Diesel hybrid setup for a Semi Truck. Where it uses a diesel generator, to charge a battery pack, when needed (as it doesn't have to run all the time). Edison is also partnering with DeBoss Garage on making conversion kits for HD Pickups. As while Hydrogen is a cool concept, they need to build out a hydrogen delivery infrastructure to actually keep vehicles fueled. Its the same problem affecting the Mirai, very few places actually exist to refill the tank.

[@Davidtestrake]

+1

[@tim8deb]

Edison Motor seems to be a great down to earth outfit

[@terryinozland]

All good except for $750000 price tag.

[@timtt9818]

On this episode…. We drive a truck, we don’t stop at any stop signs, we drive recklessly, we almost hit Toyota employees. That test drive gave me anxiety 🤣

[@joe7497]

Its an urban race course!

[@TFLEV]

This test loop was set up by Toyota employees. They made sure it is safe.

[@timtt9818]

@@TFLEV I figured as much. My weak attempt at a top gear reference. Enjoy your videos!

[@jamesbeaman6337]

And we show off its power and acceleration by demonstrating it as a bobtail. Of course it’s going to feel fast (and be less safe)!

[@rockablababy]

I was laughing ​@@timtt9818

[@arrdubu]

"Its kind of hot in here" is the nice way of saying "your driving is making me nauseous!"

[@jamessizemore7103]

You guys should go up north and talk to Edison motors! They’re doing diesel hybrid electric semis

[@evanblackmaneb]

Was going to mention them but forgot the name… the technology they use has powered locomotives for decades

[@zcon]

“Let’s show it go.” New Andre tag line. I expect to hear one of these in every video Andre’s in from now on.

[@nicolasfrankboehmer2240]

The consumption is approx 13 kg Hydrogen for 100 Miles. At the recent price of $36/kg every 100 miles will cost a little more than $450. A normal day of a 350 miles will cost North of $1500. This is a TCO from hell.

[@dennissalisbury496]

What Is Total Cost of Ownership? Total cost of ownership (TCO) is the purchase price of an asset plus the costs of operation. Assessing the total cost of ownership means taking a bigger picture look at what the product is and what its value is over time.

[@Mrbfgray]

Yeah H2 is DOA, unbelievable some major companies haven't dropped this nonsense a decade ago.

[@lowtech_1]

Oh no Tesla fanboys, They don't understand that prices come down with time 😢 In 1889, Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office. Stated that the patent office would eventually close, because… “Everything that can be invented has been invented.”

[@Mrbfgray]

@@lowtech_1 H2 is fundamentally cost non-competitive. Your emotional state is not a safe substitute for reality. H2 is just stupid as a general purpose fuel unless it's captured from massive underground reservoirs, MAYBE, still expensive to compress and contain.

[@jasonpanosh9579]

​@@lowtech_1 how much scale is needed to bring the cost down? Hydrogen is about a $10bil per year business already. There are fundamental physical limits on how to create hydrogen and everyone in the supply chain wants their cut. It will have to be an incredible development to bring that cost down, which I can see could happen if you had significant net positive renewables generation, but then it might be better to soak that excess up will batteries that will be in many vehicles by that point.

[@chrisborns5972]

Nothing screams efficency like massive heat rejection. A bad sign when an engineer presents it like it is impressive.

[@index6738]

Hydrogen solves freight weight issue with large battery pack, quick refill, and bi product fresh water. Nice.

[@surferdude4487]

Short answer: No. Longer answer: 1) Hydrogen costs at least 3x the cost of filling up a battery with electrons. That's not a technical or engineering problem, it's physics. 2) The only way to carry enough hydrogen for a trip of reasonable length for a semi is liquefied, in a bulky, expensive cryogenic tank. The fuel would have to be constantly boiling off to keep the LH2 cold enough to remain liquid. If the fuel doesn't remain liquid, the tank explodes. 3) All hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are hybrid vehicles because the fuel cells can only generate electricity so fast. a battery is required as a buffer between the fuel cells and the power-train. This may be overcome through advancements in the future, but I haven't heard anything in this area. 4) Hydrogen is insidious. It infiltrates metal, making it brittle. It leaks through seals. Even for rockets, which are one-use items, hydrogen is difficult to handle and contain. Just imagine how many issues it presents for a semi that is built to go a million miles. 5) Hydrogen fuel cells are expensive to build. It's not just manufacturing. These things contain precious metals that are required as catalyst to make the fuel cells work. This problem may be overcome with more research, but I haven't heard anything at this time. 6) Hydrogen is explosive and burns with an invisible flame. All hydrogen that escapes containment, an inevitable event (see above), is in a gas form and highly combustible. People are worried about battery fires? Just imagine what happens if hydrogen sees wider adoption. Just no.

[@notrucknolife9248]

😂the beeping sound 😂no way I would like driving with that sound consistently

[@jasonpanosh9579]

The EV power train shows how noisy the truck cabin is anyway. They will really have to do some research in that space otherwise all you're hearing is the creaking and groaning, and that will be annoying.

[@notrucknolife9248]

@@jasonpanosh9579 true this is a prototype 🧐

[@stevewahl6817]

It's a test truck so I'm sure that some of the safety systems aren't working and it's warning them.

[@who2u333]

Cool to see what other industries are doing and where hydrogen is.

[@XBEAST2023]

Where did you find this truck driver 😂

[@markcoopers1930]

Dude is having fun

[@danharold3087]

In a T R U C K

[@TFLEV]

He works at Toyota!

[@BeaudoinEric]

He looks like Bill Murray 😂

[@timrum7219]

I am a Class A OTR truck driver have been since 2001 this hydrogen electric powered normal cab Kenworth truck might be okay for in and out of the ports or small local deliveries but it will never cut it out on the road Long hauling reason for that is once that truck starts to pull the mountains and up in the hills you might as well cut that 450 mileage in range in half and also the weight of that truck is approximately the same weight as a tractor with a full-size bunk on it it will never cut it out on the road four Long Haul

[@chevrofreak]

As a former truck driver, my opinion is that this is not the way forward. You are retaining most of the complexity and failure points of a diesel truck, and then adding a whole other set of potential problems. The Tesla semi is far less complicated and has less failure points.

[@mcsike7264]

And more range

[@nikidelvalle]

Electric trucks will never be a thing, you have to remember that batteries are simply too heavy to put on a semi truck. If you're carrying some chonker battery then it means you have to carry less cargo to stay under your weight limit. The very idea of an electric truck is inherently stupid and impractical.

[@DaleWilly]

This IS the way of the future

[@Mrbfgray]

@@nikidelvalle BEV trucks have an extra 2000lb allowance. Tune into Tesla semi particulars, it can haul as much as average diesel and save $70k per yr on fuel alone, 500 mile range.

[@chevrofreak]

@@DaleWilly not in this form. This is garbage.

[@jefft7085]

Have they solved the problem that the process of extracting hydrogen gas is more energy intensive than what a hydrogen fuel cell can produce?

[@jamesengland7461]

There is no solving that.

[@FriedChairs]

ICE vehicles are still 20% efficient despite more than 100 years of development. Similar situation here.

[@ikocheratcr]

The single little topic all these H2 heads do not want to talk about, and the most important one for as long as we do not have infinite power.

[@anydaynow01]

@@ikocheratcr If it's true that CATL is testing some truly high energy density batteries and Quantumscape is close to production, H2 is dead except for maybe ocean shipping and long distance heavy lift aircraft. And let's face it, those forms of transport will be allowed to burn fossil fuels for the foreseeable future.

[@ikocheratcr]

@@anydaynow01 Storing H2 is not for the faint of heart. I think shipping will probably end up using methanol, it is nasty, but no pressure requirements for storage. Air industry... quite probably fossil for many years to come, unless cheap synthetic can be produced, ie human civilization discovers a basically infinite, cheap and clean energy source.

[@bettymaverick1098]

This was a cool video. Keep these type video's coming.

[@TFLEV]

Thank you for watching.

[@boilerdown1]

Love these videos on heavy duty trucks, keep them coming!

[@aaronandhayleyskinner3249]

This guys excitement level is off the charts 😂

[@chrisborns5972]

Nothing says the future like $15/gallon of gas equivalent. Also stations are rapidly shutting down.

[@Qrail]

I was going to say the exact same thing. $14.95 in California

[@markcoopers1930]

Economies of scale and infrastructure development by the trucking and shipping companies would change that. If there were only 100,000 gasoline vehicles' on the road and only a couple hundred fill-up sites like there are for hydrogen gasoline would be ridiculously expensive.

[@AuralioCabal-nl8gi]

@@markcoopers1930 with Solar and Wind and LFP batteries Electricity is the easiest to produce and store, simplest too.Hydrogen is a RUBE GOLDBERG Contraption in comparison.Hydrogen is also dangerous to store as a few incidents have occurred WORLDWIDE🔥BOOOM

[@mcsike7264]

Lmao thats why miri customers are sueing em 😂

[@hallkbrdz]

@@markcoopers1930 Not with hydrogen. It's a horrible choice of a fuel source because of it's physical properties. You can't scale around physics.

[@anow1693]

2000 dollars of hydrogen vs $300 of electricity for the Tesla semi for the same 400-500 miles. I just don't see the time savings, even if it's an hour, would be worth the cost difference.

[@ChronotriggerJM]

"Do you often do autocross in a semi truck?" LOL

[@RogerM88]

Electric trucks make economical sense for the Delivery sector, with short routes. For long distances Fuel-Cell make more economical sense in the long term. These technology as with the Tesla Semi, it's still economical viable to big corporations have access to tax breaks. Because Diesel it's to stay for more decades to come.

[@mikldude9376]

Well , these still look fairly light duty , and the same for the Tesla trucks , probably ok for carting light loads for short distances, old school heavy duty diesels can pull huge loads through hot and cold , they have way better range , they are relatively simple and can easily be repaired in the fleet workshop , EV trucks and hydrogen imo will be an absolute head fornication . I’m happy to be proven wrong, but I don’t think I am.

[@larryspiller15]

Breakdowns will be minimal for pure evs. Electric motors are not new technology and are extremely reliably. The fool cells will be a nightmare though. ​@mikldude9376

[@coreybrown185]

Not really. Do the math of the cost of hydrogen vs the cost of electricity and do your math again. That truck will consume over $2000 worth of hydrogen every 300 miles.

[@RogerM88]

@@coreybrown185 You can use other substances besides Hydrogen in a Fuel-Cell.

[@jaysont244]

The test drive reminds me of the Jeff Gordon Pepsi commercial.

[@Stuka87]

This was a cool video. Hydrogen is the way of the future for trucking. Its significantly cleaner than diesel, and it doesn't have the issue of having to have a giant lithium battery and its longish recharge times.

[@coreybrown185]

Did you see the size of those hydrogen tanks? The entire back side of the cab for the next 4 feet is filled with tanks that hold compressed hydrogen at 10,000 PI. Do you really want that kind of explosive force sitting right behind you? Remember, it's not just the explosive force of the bottle giving way, it's the ignition of the hydrogen after that.

[@Stuka87]

@@coreybrown185 So, a few things to note. 1: Hydrogen is stored as a liquid. It is not explosive as a liquid. Just like propane is not explosive as a liquid. 2: Hydrogen being a very light gas, means that if it escapes, it quickly floats up. A hydrogen fire quickly dissipates as a result. 3: Its not like gasoline or diesel which stays a liquid and pours onto the ground under the vehicle and then ignites the entire vehicle. 4: While 10,000psi does sound like a crazy amount of pressure, the tanks are incredibly durable. And as of yet, nobody as ever been hurt or killed by an exploding tank in a vehicle. And should a tank rupture, the liquid inside converts into a gas, but thats not instant.

[@ChicagoBob123]

Today I saw a clip that CATL is in production of a 500Wh/kg battery with 4C charging. That changes everything including Semi trucks.

[@zachlafond2652]

Still need to source power to charge that. You'll need a nuclear reactor running at a truck stop if you had a bunch of trucks needing to charge at once.

[@ChicagoBob123]

@@zachlafond2652 It will require power but slowly but surely power is becoming more available. Using a battery buffer on sight tied to the grid can charge on off hours and release the power needed during peak hours. So it can be addressed and not toxic and buried tanks. Hydrogen is so not happening. Costs are sky high and storage is crazy hard because its less energy dense and needs to be compressed and so small it leaks out of the containers. 300Bar is not nothing.

[@mikldude9376]

Battery still sucks though, the whole point of a truck is cart maximum freight , and with maximum range , the other thing is cost. Ask these whizz bang electric and hydrogen systems you can take a good bet they will cost an utter fortune. I have a buddy with a small bus company that is being pressured by the local government to buy electric buses , they cost double what a standard diesel unit costs , the electric does not even have adequate range , and something that has been mentioned about EV cars is the cost of parts and repairs, it is enormous . Not to mention here you have a mosh mash of old school and new tech . Sorry I just don’t think either version of Ev or hydrogen is a patch on old school heavy duty diesels. A company I used to work for had masses of trucks , in our little section there was 24 kenworths , and we had electronic detroits mostly, with the rest 600 Cummins , we ran them two shifts a day sometimes pulling up to a legal 68 ton running shuttles 6 days a week doing about 1500 K’s a day, about 950 miles per day , and the prime movers where about 9 ton or a tad less , so they where lighter than what we see here. Another thing with anything that needs huge batteries, eventually those batteries are going to degrade , how long will that take ? All this whizz bang stuff is imo is unproven , and looks overly complex and expensive. Give me a standard heavy duty diesel any day .

[@chevrofreak]

​@@zachlafond2652hydrogen requires twice the electricity to create and store, per mile driven.

[@ChicagoBob123]

@@mikldude9376 the price of batteries is falling 50% by years end. It will fall even more as a common chemistry and production gets settled. So it's coming and will tow and be better for everyone who liked breathing cleaner air. The Tesla Semi is a winner and it can tow.

[@tritchie6272]

Be sure it's gonna be above freezing when you Ike it. No need to make the roads icy.

[@nathanbeaner928]

I stopped watching a video from Carwow about the new 2024 Bugatti Mistral to watch yours!!!!!!

[@georgeh6856]

Fuel cell semi trucks seem to be better than battery electric semis. The BEV semis have significantly decreased payload capacity due to the very heavy weight of all of those batteries. Recharging a BEV semi would likely take a very long time. One problem with fuel cells is that it is very difficult to produce H2 gas needed for fuel cells. Splitting water uses a large amount of energy. Some of the H2 gas produced so far was with dirty fuel sources. If fuel cell cars ever sell a lot, that will happen only after fuel cell semi trucks gain market share.

[@hynsum]

200kwh high voltage lithium pack + 60 kgs pressurized liquid hydrogen.... Very safe combo... I'm sure 😲😅

[@saltydogg]

Diesel is 13% hydrogen & 87% carbon, it’s density is 3.17515 kg per gallon. To convert kilograms of hydrogen to gallons of diesel divide kilograms by density by efficiency, i.e. 60 ÷ 3.17515 ÷ 13% = 145.36 gallons ( 461.5398 kg ) of diesel. At 13.759 kwh per gallon, that’s 2000 kwh.

[@EnthusiastCarHangar]

The guy demonstrating the truck wasn’t super pleasant and didn’t have much humor. I wonder how much these trucks will cost.

[@cnoyes72]

He looks like a non-sales guy, probably sick of repeating the same spiel for every youtuber there.

[@EnthusiastCarHangar]

@@cnoyes72 I believe that. But it’s not their fault he needs to tell his boss. I have been in those situations before.

[@markcoopers1930]

I know when I buy a semi truck I only buy when the salesman gushes over me and makes me feel special. Also there's no indication he is a salesperson, he could very well be an engineer or development driver. This is a prototype at a development center and not a dealership afterall

[@lawless420.]

andres like let’s cut the BS can I drive 😆 all u guys at TFl are awesome love the commentary!

[@zapfanzapfan]

Putting a 200 kW diesel generator on it instead would make it very useful. The battery pack is enough for 100km electric range meaning no need for running the generator in cities, only out on the open stretches of highway. And it could charge or fill up at already existing stations.

[@imtheonevanhalen1557]

Blows my mind how the FIRST thing folks do with EV's is show how QUICKLY they can drain the power and ruin the tires....unreal!!

[@klausschroiff4405]

I remember that the fuel cell isn't the problem, but the refueling is. The throughput of hydrogen fuel stations is very low because after fueling one vehicle, it takes quite a while to restore the required pressure for the next one. Or has this been solved in the meantime?

[@markcoopers1930]

Pressure seems to work fine on their Mirai videos, it's the frosting that's an issue. But at a commercial refueling center that would be a non-issue

[@klausschroiff4405]

Hmmh, I found figures for retail stations in California: "... four retail stations are capable of supplying up to 350 kg of hydrogen per day a..." 350kg per day isn't really a hell of a lot ... That's equivalent to about 1 ton of diesel.

[@FriedChairs]

@@klausschroiff4405 That’s around 75 cars refueled in a day. That impacts the profit that a hydrogen gas station could make from store sales.

[@klausschroiff4405]

I found figures of 1600 kg H2 for stations ... supplying trains and bus depots. Never say never but this feels as if mass deployment of these fuel stations is a major obstacle. As much as I'd prefer a "traditional" style of filling up my car, it simply seems as if electric charging stations are a hell of a lot easier and cost-efficient. The other question may be whether it has to be H2 or liquid efuel like methanol. The latter may be another less efficient step, but they'd be much more practical.

[@nathanbeaner928]

FYI iv seen Danny the driver at a bar and this guy takes shots of Tequila like a BOSS

[@anydaynow01]

Where's the H2 infastructure? The reason Tesla did so well is because they built a charging network that actually functions as advertised, Toyota needs to go in with companies like Plug Power to really double down on putting in H2 filling stations that actually work and don't cost an insane amount of money to fill up with. H2 heavy transport will never take off until this happens.

[@tylerproctor4878]

Its funny that with every new innovation we always assume it will get better but the truth is you never know where the top of the hill is. Do you have a microwave in your house? How is that automatic vacuum doing in your house? Some things don't get better after a certain point. They climb and then level out eventually. We never know where that point is. Electric fans are so sure they will get consistently better. So do hydrogen fans.

[@steve7720]

I don't get why truck manufacturers aren't doing electric trucks with a propane engine range extender. The infrastructure is already built out for propane

[@timrum7219]

I'll tell you why because they are not cut out or make sense when it comes to cost and also what it comes to the weight of the vehicle because the more weight the truck weighs the less cargo you can haul which then that cuts into profit for every load picked up and delivered

[@anydaynow01]

@@timrum7219 Cost is the big reason, but it's just upfront cost in a time where interest rates are bonkers. Comparing apples to apples in the long term NG hybrid tractors save money over the life of the vehicle, quite a bit more actually. But fleet operators are trying to cut costs right now and aren't willing to fork out for nascent tech, they aren't even really buying new diesels unless they absolutely have to.

[@anydaynow01]

The market just isn't there right now, a company called Hyliion actually had a great solution with preorders and everything. But there was more potential for growth in other sectors so they pivoted away from hybrid NG tractors until the industry is ready to make long term investments (or are forced to by emissions regulations, the freight industry is extremely conservative).

[@kencotton4645]

It has great performance as a bobtail but I would rather see how much acceleration and range it has when pulling a load.

[@symmetry08]

It is almost useless for average daily driver to own Hydrogen driver vehicle, as it should leak certain amounts to the outside for pressure relieve and dangerous to keep it indoors (flameable). They should be running most of the time as commercial trucks, almost as in loop - interstate trucks or delivery trucks on rotations. Should not stay idle for long, for hazard reasons.

[@DankoStojanovic]

This is super cool. Thank you for showing some alternatives to EV

[@AndrewBatiuk]

TFLEV, as a matter of transparency, can you clarify: did Toyota pay for any portion of this video (flights/lodging/meals/etc)?

[@Malc664]

The driving course was a worry for safety. That was a challenging gig for you Andre.

[@TFLEV]

Thank you for watching.

[@Mike-Minion]

toyota has to make it work. they have bought into stations. I wish them luck but i don't see anything coming soon.

[@j0nA8]

Maybe in freight trains this makes some sense, hydrogen is prohibitively expensive road cars/trucks right now

[@arnegerhardsen3755]

I have been wayting for a Toyota Land Cruiser 150 Prado for long range heavy towing powered with a hydrogen fuel cell instead of the heavy weight of the batteries and charging time needed foe such towing, because I think this would be a cheaper and more reliable solution over time because of a lighter vehicle.

[@brushlessmotoring]

A Hydrogen EV will always be more expensive than direct charging a battery because of losses. Hydrogen just can't be cheaper, it is currently 10 times the cost per mile of battery, and more expensive to build, it won't be lighter either, the raw fuel will be lighter, but all the tanks, the battery (still needs a battery) the fuel cell ... needs electric motors - it's still an EV underneath. Because the tanks, even at 10,000 psi, are quite large, you will lose space in the vehicle to them, the Mirai is very cramped for it's exterior size and the back seats don't go down because one of the tank is in the way. Battery swapping is one way to speed up charging, it could be faster than a hydrogen fill (which is still slower than a diesel fill) but DC charging and new chemistries are bringing charging down to well below typical dwell times at a gas station anyway, and for daily driving, charging at work or home if available can be more convenient. I don't think all day every day truck towing is going to switch away from diesel anytime soon, but that is't the majority of transportation emissions, it's okay to go last, it's daily driving and car commuting that stand to gain the most from electrification.

[@thespiceislife2082]

Would like to see some medium duty non-CDL box trucks.

[@TFLEV]

You need a CDL to drive most box trucks with GVWR over 10,000 lbs.

[@weyo14]

That squeaking noise sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me…

[@coreybrown185]

60kg of hydrogen, at $36.00 a kg (California), that comes to $2160 to fill that truck up, not counting charging the 200kwh battery and it has a range of 350 miles. Does that sound good to anybody?

[@crimsondecade7420]

Hydrogen was the future but it is pretty much dead now . Toyota had their fuel cell tech ready and just sat on their ass waiting for the government or a third party to build the hydrogen infrastructure. If like Tesla, Toyota had built out its own hydrogen infrastructure I believe we would have seen most car manufacturers selling hydrogen vehicles by now. I still believe it is a better option then todays EV because of range but if toyota is really on the verge of a SSD battery release then it will solve the EV charge / range issue and there is no need for hydrogen.

[@chrisborns5972]

The Mira have been unreliable for unfortunate owners, and the stations can only supply 50 vehicles daily for a 1.5 billion dollar cost. This is why no one with a calculator would consider supporting the hydrogen model. Nothing about hydrogen is efficient or simple.

[@AuralioCabal-nl8gi]

How can it have better range when you can't even go all over California where there are a few stations, Shell pulled out of the program there too..HYDROGEN US as dead as a doornail even as Toyota keeps pounding that nail!🤣

[@RogerM88]

In my opinion Hydrogen can be economically viable for transportation but blend with other elements, such as Ammonia.

[@AuralioCabal-nl8gi]

@@RogerM88 IMHO Hydrogen is deader than a doornail as it can "NEVER SCALE ECONOMICALLY", ponder those 3 words,

[@RogerM88]

@@AuralioCabal-nl8gi It can scale economically blend with other elements. Plenty of applications, besides the Automotive sector, such as Nautical, Aeronautical, Metallurgy, Heating, and plenty of other sectors.

[@ronkipp1862]

Very interesting video, Toyota is the right manufacture to better develop hydrogen vehicles.

[@hynsum]

Its a pure EV drivetrain with "smaller" battery pack and fuel cell generating electricity from hydrogen. Is that correct?

[@jasonpanosh9579]

Yes.

[@BrentRyley]

Yeah hydrogen that old chestnut I’m old enough to remember green algae. Pretty sure they’ll be promoting jellyfish power if they can figure out a way to commodify it. It’s all pretty pathetic

[@huissens]

As a motor coach driver, I am excited to see this application put in a coach!

[@devengudinas1649]

Imagine your passengers hitting you over the head because of all the dings from the dashboard 😂

[@huissens]

Perhaps you haven’t been in a bus lately? All sorts of dumb noise! I agree, the beeps going on as well as the creaks and groans are accentuated by the lack of diesel engine noise.

[@TFLEV]

That would be very interesting.

[@chm2]

Can't wait to buy one of these and park it beside the Cybertrucks at work

[@juanjmolina]

If Toyota and Nikola can get infrastructure figured out. These could sell.

[@J.W.W.]

Never bet against Toyota. They look into the future better than most

[@brilanto]

Seems their crystal ball is broken...

[@AuralioCabal-nl8gi]

SHELL pulled out of the California Hydrogen program for cars, that is an indication of the future of Hydrogen.

[@AuralioCabal-nl8gi]

Mirai Owners have a lawsuit v s Toyota , I bet Toyota will settle it with HUSH MONEY.

[@zachlafond2652]

see the BZ4X

[@mcsike7264]

have to give your kids and a arm to fill up 😂

[@joeclutchless1944]

So a fuel cell truck costs about double the cost of diesel and the hydrogen costs is about 4 times that od diesel. So there is no business case for it unless diesel is banned.

[@furryrug5998]

Sir James Watt didn't invent the original steam engine he re-engineered to made it vastly more efficient & economical. Eventually someone will do the same for hydrogen...The next industrial age will happen.

[@devengudinas1649]

Should have asked them about the hydrogen truck that exploded near the port of LA and nearly took out the entire block 😳. And injured like 6 firefighters 🚒

[@markcoopers1930]

That was a truck carrying hydrogen fuel, not a hydrogen truck. Same thing would have happened if a gasoline tanker exploded. Or are you talking about the Natural gas powered truck in 2018?

[@Dqtube]

And how is this different from the fire a few days ago on I-95 where a burning fossil fuel tanker severely damaged a bridge ? How would one flammable and potentially explosive material be worse than another ?

[@AuralioCabal-nl8gi]

@@Dqtube there have been 3 big incidents of Hydrogen fires or explosions Northern California, Norway , and South Korea, yeah that I95 Tanker fire was bad and here Toronto a gas Tanker fire closed a major Highway( 401) for a week to fix Road DAMAGES ! Heat melted light standards and asphalt and cement base.

[@danharold3087]

@@Dqtube When gasoline escapes it runs out on the ground and burns as it vaporizes. When hydrogen escapes confinement in quantity it forms what is called a fuel air explosive. A very very effective bomb.

[@Dqtube]

@@danharold3087 A specific concentration of a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen ( 18.3% to 59% ) is required to create an explosive environment and ignition source. Hydrogen is a by-product/waste product of various processes in the chemical industry(for example, sodium hydroxide, of which tens of millions of tonnes are produced annually). and is no more hazardous than others when safety requirements are met.

[@jamessizemore7103]

Not a trucker so I’d like to know is 400 miles fully loaded decent range?

[@Bryan46162]

It's the wrong question. In logistics, the only thing that really matters is how much it costs to get material from point A to point B.

[@markcoopers1930]

For short haul setups like they were describing (driving around the port and within city limits) it's a tad low, but still plenty. Long haul setups it's not close. Pressurized Hydrogen can't be stored long term anyway it will need to vent over time, so excess capacity in the vehicle isn't something you want to throw in unnecessarily

[@anydaynow01]

It's okay for last mile deliveries around a city especially in winter, but for true cross continent semis, they would need a lot more, especially if AI copilots become a thing. Someone was saying with full self driving allowing a human driver to rest on long stretches of freeway they would need ranges of 1500 km or more!

[@darrendaine4914]

I don't know what all the dinging and bells are doing but it's irritating as hell I'd never drive something that made that much noise

[@nikolaikostka7632]

I think hydrogen works great for long haul or other high power long range applications. I think for the average person battery electric is the way to go.

[@Boomtendo4tw]

Just use alcohol in a generator. It's cheap and plentiful and burns clean. Why do we need to over complicate things

[@frankcoffey]

Fleet managers will never go for this unless they can make their own fuel at some known cost and it better be low.

[@brushlessmotoring]

It is physically impossible for hydrogen to be cheaper per mile than just charging a battery, it uses 3 times more electricity to make hydrogen to go the same distance, the hydrogen Mirai in California is $36 per gallon equivalent (kg of H2) and costs 10 times what a battery electric costs to drive. No sane business will ever go for this unless being paid to do so - with our money - by some mislead government incentives. Hydrogen for transportation is the textbook definition of a boondoggle.

[@beans4gas]

I'm not a trucker but all those creeps and squeaks would drive me insane!

[@guyjordan8201]

Compare it to an Edison motors hybrid.

[@pitviper97]

Not even comparable.

[@brendanfennell3552]

In New Zealand Hyundai Trucks have supplied two Hyundai Xcient Fuel Cell Trucks (FCEV) each towing a large trailer to NZ Post -the countries Postal service whose drivers have been driving these trucks up and down the North Island in NZ since July 2022 using Hydrogen Supplied by Fuel Stations manufactured by Haskel in Sunderland in the UK with an ongoing project to build 21 Hydrogen Fuel Stations in the North Island of NZ by 2025 , I believe your Team Revied one of the Hyundai Xcient Heavy Truck Unit at the LA Auto Show a couple of years back , so after Korea and Switzerland , New Zealand is introducing a Hydrogen powered truck program

[@psikot]

How much does the hydrogen cost per kg?

[@brendanfennell3552]

@@psikot Range is 400km and the Xcient has a fuel capacity of 31kg of hydrogen - meaning that around $25 NZ per kg of H2 used for the fuel cell that powers its 350KW. electric motor, it will cost around $775 NZ for a fill ( it would cost around $450 NZ to get the same range. from a diesel heavy truck, assuming 40 litres per 100km - ( A hydrogen heavy truck would cost $1.2m NZ, an electric model would be $800,000 NZ and a diesel equivalent $300,000 NZ)

[@DaleWilly]

hyunDIE is JUNK

[@BrentRyley]

And?

[@deucedaprodeuca]

If you were able to go back to specific peoe's comments, I said a few times that Toyota was building a fleet of these. They're currently building a lot of fuel companies ll stations and they were using Tesla Big Rigs to transport materials. Tesla wasn't providing them with enough trucks, so they decided to build their own. They're also building fuel cell battery hybrid cars and that will be their focus. I had insider info at the time that told me these things a year ago.

[@StarInfinite00]

If this is more for heavy machinery or heavy transportation purposes, then its a good idea as long as enough fueling centers can be created. I don't see this coming to consumers but commercial purposes makes more sense.

[@RogerM88]

Synthetic fuels should be the priority and then Hybrids, BEVs and Fuel-Cells. The rush push towards BEVs even using Greenwashing, it's to lower Oil imports.

[@mech-E]

A truck operator would have to be very dumb to decide to buy these trucks. Fuel cell trucks will likely have a capital cost about double that of battery electric trucks pretty much forever, maintenance costs twice as much and fuel costs three times as much at minimum. It is cheaper to buy the electric truck and use the electricity to charge the truck rather than using the hydrogen cycle and buying a fuel cell truck.

[@AbuPaul]

Anyone else can see that certain parts were sped up?

[@daves1646]

Wonder who bankrolls all this development work on FC drivetrains in the USA. US product sales? Or does Toyota WW corporate? A lot of prototype-level devices shown, but not a lot of what really looks like ‘close to product’. The Toyota engineer plainly said that the OEM was responsible for using T’s ‘tandem FC unit’ in their development program. Then later, using an off the shelf inverter, unspecified batteries and SC’s in their product development. - pretty early development. Hope they make these more robust than a lot of the ‘production’ BEV school busses now having reliability issues in the field in school fleets.

[@brushlessmotoring]

Taxpayers pay for Hydrogen development, especially fuelling, it's not commercially viable.

[@nikidelvalle]

Well I'm glad they're putting hydrogen in trucks at least, this is probably one of the only use cases for hydrogen that could work considering the extremely high prices for hydrogen fuel and storage issues (not that it's a great idea until they solve that pricing problem). Passenger hydrogen vehicles though are a total waste of time.

[@stevemiro731]

I look to Toyota for improving processes. I don't really think about them as a tech leader. At this point I don't trust it.

[@kylecordes]

It's disappointing that they don't take it to a closed track somewhere to let press drive. Although we wouldn't necessarily learn any more from that, it would sure make a more appealing video.

[@Conservativetruckeraz]

With all these electric or hydrogen electric trucks I have yet to see one with a sleeper cab. These might be ok for short local runs but doesn't solve for long haul trucking. The practicality isn't there.

[@SolveFixBuild]

Why has Toyota remained in their persistent but lackluster fascination with Hydrogen? It’s a waste of R&D dollars if they aren’t working on H2 transport or low cost decentralized production and storage.

[@Bryan46162]

Hydrogen has long been a delay tactic. Toyota (and other big hydrogen proponents) have a lot of industry clout so they can force governments to 'split' research dollars between something that won't work and something real, they decrease the resources going to advancing the real solution. End result is delay and more gas engines sold.

[@hollypark2752]

Even in Japan, you see more EVs than hydrogen cars. You can go for weeks and not see a mirai there. While you can easily fine EVs. And Japan already has a low ev adoption rate. With the Japanese govt support, hydrogen is still not viable. Toyota had record profits. Imagine if they stopped throwing money at hydrogen and built some viable EVs instead.

[@JT_771]

H2 is a stepping stone for rigs like this. Gotta be careful how much ya spend devving stepping stone tech. I'd also argue calling them hybrids is splitting hairs. Such fuel cell vehicles simply need to have those batteries. Being such a necessity, eh, just call them fuel cell.

[@TractorJeep]

Toyota has a real-life Dwight Schrute.

[@Bryan46162]

No. Hydrogen is not going to happen. Trucking is all about moving cargo from point A to point B at the lowest cost. Hydrogen solutions cost way more than diesel. Pure battery electric cost significantly less than diesel. This gap between hydrogen and BEV is not going to improve because hydrogen trucks are simply BEV trucks with an exotic dual fuel generator bolted on. Any efficiency gains you make in the hydrogen truck will similarly benefit the pure electric one. The only way to fully bridge the gap is for government to subsidize hydrogen to such a degree that it would bankrupt even the American economy.

[@arnoldm889]

I don’t see diesel going anywhere any time soon. Nothing gives as much energy as diesel and is a cheap to make. Also infrastructure is there.

[@Bryan46162]

Diesel won't go away overnight, and there will likely remain a smaller segment open for the use of carbon neutral bio-diesel big rigs in the far north or other hard to electrify areas. But battery electric will come to dominate the majority of trucking within the next two decades simply due to the economics. It's impossible to beat the low operating cost of a battery electric truck. The 'refuelling' time argument has also fallen away. The latest generation of cells coming out of CATL in China are now in the wild and charging in 10 minutes... Let that sink in: Batteries are now in the wild capable of charging as fast as Toyota is HOPING they can make this semi fill up in.

[@arnoldm889]

@@Bryan46162 that’s pure hopium. EVs are for smaller vehicles, they don’t make enough power for long charges and 10 minute charges are a Pipe dream, decades away.

[@jmp622]

Fix that noise from seat

[@secondcreekworkshop3908]

Toyota will literally do anything to get out of making a compact pickup.

[@Dholomon]

Polluting water does it cause ice on the roads for other drivers

[@345ScoutII]

Not TFL's fault, but that driver seat squeaking was horrible. Kind of made it hard to care about what they were talking about. Oh well. Good video otherwise 👍

[@chrisborns5972]

The lines complexity and size is a problem fueling time will make charging look good. Especially when the nozzle freezes up in summer.

[@rjdumey3149]

They keep calling it a fuel cell. It is an engine that burns hydrogen to make electricity. So you are still running an engine that needs oils. Not to mention the complexity of combining it all together to turn an electric motor. Wonder what the power lose is in the system for all that converting. Plus you have make the hydrogen in the first place.

[@daves1646]

Uh no, I don’t think so. Go back and listen. Fuel cells from 1st GEN Toyota Mirai, The fuel cell combines H2 and O2 on a catalyst matrix, makes water and power. NO combustion. Make electricity directly. While not the most excellent efficiency, still 2 - 3 times more efficient than IC burning a fuel.

[@razdillinger3852]

Does no one here realize the enormous potential of untapped natural hydrogen? Things in that field having been ramping up in the last few years.

[@DavidSimpsonJr973]

Based on the comments, no.

[@gtvgranberg]

Haha :)

[@AuralioCabal-nl8gi]

HYDROGEN fuel does not occur naturally ,producing and storing it and transporting it ECONOMICALLY has it's challenges.

[@FriedChairs]

Maybe you should inform Shell. They pulled out of consumer hydrogen station s and claimed difficulty sourcing green hydrogen. Apparently you know something they don’t.

[@Bryan46162]

Unfortunatly all 'white' or 'natural' hydrogen does is reduce the cost of production. It doesn't help with transportation or compression costs... which still render hydrogen uneconomical.

[@chandleredwards]

Toyota changes at a glacial pace and deserves the consequences for this business model. Reliability will undoubtedly be compromised with turbos. Hydrogen has high leakage from atomic structure, so implementation would be inefficient at best.

[@jguil4d]

For consumer vehicles, which generally spend the majority of their existence parked, leakage is definitely a problem. But commercial vehicles are different, spending a much higher percentage of their lifetime in motion. Leakage in this use case may be negligible.

[@FriedChairs]

@@jguil4dI believe it would leak in operation too so it may not impact refueling schedule but it represents similar losses.

[@jguil4d]

@@FriedChairs Possibly. If there is significant leakage during transfer from holding tank to consumption point, I expect that (1) Toyota is more aware of it than we are over here with our navel gazing, and (2) it isn’t so significant as to be an automatic deal-killer.

[@jamesbecker4326]

hydrogen is extremely expensive in your cost per mile to operate. more than gas/diesel and way more then electricity. also, hydrogen is not a clean fuel.

[@ranig2848]

Hydrogen Semi are a dud. Truckers care about one thing and one thing ONLY. Cost. It will NEVER happen. Economics are just not there and WILL NEVER be there. Not talking about the tech - hydrogen is just 5x more expensive to produce than gas or diesel. At the same time electricity is 1/5 the cost. Tesla and others already have Semi in production that do over 400 mile real world range and this will just improve in the next 5-10 years. Once megachargers for semis are available on interstates, availability will be there and SIMPLE ECONOMICS will just shift EVERYTHING to EV Semis. It has nothing to do with the environment. It's pure cost. No truck driver/company will be able to drive diesel and compete with EV trucks. It's all about the money. Hydrogen is just a political/lobbying play by Toyota and oil companies because they want to delay EVs. That's it. Toyota knows it will never happen. Waste of money, time and resources. What a shame that Toyota can just can't embrace the change. Embaracing for them.

[@LegendaryInfortainment]

I'll stick with hydrogen remaining the ruler of my water at 2 to 1 and no chance of being useful in transportation economics, ever. The CEOs at Toyota and Kenworth need to curb their mind altering drug use.

[@laloajuria4678]

Specialized use case fine....but dead for the majority of passenger vehicles.