Toyota LEAVING Subaru as development for next GR86 plows forward?!

#GR86 #BRZ #gazooracing #toyota #subaru
Toyota is developing a third-gen GR86 seemingly without the developmental help from Subaru. Here's everything from the Japanese rumor mill.
Sources:
mag-x.jp/2023/06/26/22572/
www.drive.com.au/news/next-to...
00:00 - 3rd-Gen GR86 Rumor mill
08:01 - What can we beleive?
09:02 - Japanese Production Boost
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[@aprettyboringguy8963]

After seeing the oil starvation debacles play out I'd much prefer a toyota engine next gen

[@zacharyparis]

Yeah, happy to see a different engine. The engine has kept me away from both generations.

[@jimiverson3085]

I'm thinking that the engine assembly issues were a motivation for this project.

[@faheemabbas3965]

Toyota got tired of the boxers blowing up. They knew in terms of reliability that Subaru isn’t getting any better any time soon, even with their help. Why use their engines to destroy their image? Another nail in the coffin for Subaru. If Subaru doesn’t fix their engine problems, I don’t see them being in business in the next 15 years.

[@Youtubeduude]

@@faheemabbas3965probably won’t matter because when has it ever deterred subie fans? I feel like they almost wear their blown head gaskets as a badge. Crosstreks and outbacks are still EVERYWHERE. I won’t be complaining that toyota is moving on though

[@alexanderflack566]

@@Brian_Eugene_Lee To be fair, the B48 and B58 are actually reliable. Expensive to fix, sure, but reliable. The same cannot be said for Subaru's engine.

[@danieljones8706]

With the markups, the GR86 stopped being affordable a while ago. I see them selling for nearly $40k now.

[@Mr99Burns]

I’m selling mine special edition at 40k

[@fortheloveofnoise9298]

wow 50k to have silicone in your engine...just buy a Japanese built Miata for cheaper 🤣 (maybe 86 is Japanese built too, I can't remember....but it still isn't on par quality wise with the Miata)

[@jegglz3845]

Usually pretty common to find at msrp in Illinois atleast, just have to find a MSRP dealer we currently have 2

[@carsonj4031]

Buy a brz. There are literally 10+ BRZs within 100 miles from me that I could go pick up today.

[@avdp9095]

Very good pricing, in the Netherlands the price for a nice Yaris....., the GR costs 70k Euro 😢😢😢😢😢

[@aroundomaha]

I paid $29k for my BRZ and can accept some trade offs in terms of interior, ride quality, etc. I wanted a simple, normally aspirated sports car. Bouncing it to $40k and adding a turbo or electric assist will appeal to the stat bois, but will it make it a better sports car? That being said I wish Subaru would own up to the oiling issues.

[@tv321123]

Having the ability to still kick the back end out a bit, while wearing bigger stickier tries...Yes that would be a much better sports car. Especially taking the Subaru engine issues out of the equation, and putting in a far more reliable & tuner friendly option from the start.

[@aroundomaha]

@@tv321123 I’m with you on the engine thing. Subaru screwed the pooch on the oiling system

[@AbrahamArthemius]

Funny thing is, that rumoured 1.4L 3cyl Turbo engine technically already running inside a GR86. It's a de-stroked G16E engine and used for race use by Rookie Racing (Akio Toyoda's personal race team) in Super Taikyu (Japan's Premier Endurance Racing).

[@KirkKreifels]

Yep!

[@BrazenRain]

This screams its intention. Destroking likely allows the 1.4 to rev higher, and I bet that thing more than compensates for the higher CG with overall less weight.

[@AbrahamArthemius]

@@KirkKreifels I really don't think the hybrid part will be there for the next gen like those rumour said, but the G16E part? I can actually get that since it's their latest performance engine that can keep the car's light weight characteristics intact. Plus they have to recoup the engine R&D cost from somewhere

[@kalmmonke5037]

they should give option for the hybrid to replace the 4th piston in when the power output happens, so sound and power are linearly correlated instead of sound coming on when battery power is stoped. for emissions testing and as a option , it can run a more effiency focused way

[@tonycortez8556]

No imagine trying to get your hands on the trueno edition

[@BlackNAVYAmericanVET]

No Electric, NO HYBRID, NO AUTOMATIC. CLEAN ice engine with a manual ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@anydaynow01]

Agreed if they are so worried about the environment, they should have a flex fuel sensor in it instead of going EV.

[@MKu64]

People in media / KZbinrs are making the price situation worse - there's really no reason for the price to jump so much because of that engine - it doesn't cost them (much) more for that engine to make. It's purely that we keep setting an expectation that every time a new model comes out we think if it has more power that it should cost more. They know we expect it and so can get away with it. The BRZ in Australia was 6-7k cheaper on release than the GR86... because Toyota thinks it's 'priced well based on the market'... That's just pure greed.

[@doorey2]

That's not the main issue. The issue is that this new engine does NOT hold up when driven hard. Many... WAY too many people who are very experienced track car owners have blown up these engines. Oil pan baffle, oil cooler, new fluids, boom. If thats not enought, the new GR cup car also uses this engine in its stock form. They have already been seeing major failures. These are professional race teams that can't get this engine to hold. As someone who bought a GR86, I'm extremely frustrated bc I was certain my car would spend a ton of its time on the track... now it can never even see the track bc I cannot afford a new engine

[@roochiecooch]

@@doorey2well actually if you just make left turns you should mostly be fine lol. The testing I’ve seen shows a drop in oil pressure only on right handed turns. So I’m sure eventually there will be some decent well baffled oil pans to compensate for this. Or you could always go dry sump if you want to track it. They’re expensive but they would definitely remedy the oil starvation problem. Still I wouldn’t track a stock FA24 BRZ/GR86. There’s a very good chance that it will pop the engine if you do anything close to an actual hard lap. What’s great about this news if it’s true that the 3 Cylinder turbo will make it into the next GR86 I will be extremely happy. As this current G16 is really taking a beating in the aftermarket and seems to be more than capable of handling it. I would love to see a G14 variant that’s capable of revving higher and has a much more free revving and top end happy turbo engine. Those power bands are very fun and since they don’t have a big heavy engine up front it will still have amazing balance.

[@stevef3521]

@@roochiecoochI believe they also lose oil pressure uphill. Not as severe at hard, right cornering. Even if you don’t track them, it’s still likely to have long term internal damage. The verdict is still out, but I wouldn’t gamble on it. I wish the best of luck to all BRZ/GR86 owners, daily or track driven.

[@saifk6188]

@@doorey2 Do you have actual stats with a link on this?

[@stevef3521]

@@saifk6188probably saw the video on brz900 channel

[@CruiseControl1]

The turbo three is probably the next engine for the GR86 since there are test vehicles running that engine now. The price will probably be closer to $40k like you said and that would leave the upcoming MR2 as the more affordable option. $30k-$37k MR2 $37k-$42k GR86 $42k-$50k GR Corolla $50k-$65k GR Supra

[@criznitty]

One can only hope. I can’t afford a $60k Corolla

[@apexbreakfast]

@@criznittynot with that attitude

[@MrDa89soup]

The BMW Supra is dead after 2024 per Toyota soooo…

[@Bristecom]

3 cylinder engines are garbage. Very weak and very rough. Even most motorcycles are 4 cylinder. Turbo and electrification will guarantee reliability issues and shorter lifespan and more weight and higher costs. All this is great for Toyota's profits but terrible for people wanting a good raw affordable sports car!

[@juliussayavong5219]

Dam it’s been 2 years already? I barely see any around here.

[@joshreynolds729]

Because nobody wants to pay a mark up for a “track car” that’s really just slow and has limited tuning potential. Let’s face it today if you don’t have a car worth roll racing or drag racing no body cares if you can turn when other option crap on it in that category. Basically it’s a normal car that’s sporty that’s it. Nobody respects anything that’s not 300hp or more today. Displacement ain’t an excuse when boost exist it’s just pure laziness that nobody has time for Sorry. This is why you don’t see them. This car is for the high schooler.

[@Mr99Burns]

You can get automatics fairly easily without markup if you’re liking to call a lot of dealers

[@Fabulousprofound168]

No inventory in my area, however there are plenty of used ones of the last gen model. But because the kids love them, many of them have crash history/rebuilt status and insurance is expensive

[@MKu64]

After having my BRZ on order in Australia since just after release - it only arrived 3 months ago and already they are discussing another 😂

[@kevinmartinez2548]

Blame the stealerships marking them up

[@carsonj4031]

Idk man, this is a slippery slope that Toyota is walking. So many sports cars have been killed off by getting more and more expensive, pricing themselves out of existence. The only thing that might be cool is if Toyota had a gr 86 that was around 40k and Subaru kept selling a brz similar to the one we have now.

[@FiregemGaming]

It’s an amazing car with a good boxer engine, but Toyota is more than capable, they have the finances for it, Toyota by themselves have made legendary cars (LFA Supra AE86 MR2 even the second to last gen Celica) the boxer motor is garbage after 80k miles with head gaskets and block cracking being 2 of the main issues with the BRZ and the 86 FR-S whatever. Toyota needs to put a decent 4 cylinder or even a straight 6 if it would fit for the 3rd gen, keep hybrid and electrification out of the sports cars.

[@joshreynolds729]

I agree. 👍

[@faheemabbas3965]

Subaru can go out of business honesty. Their engines are never going to get better.

[@stevef3521]

“It’s an amazing car with a good boxer engine……the boxer motor is garbage after 80k…” What? I’m no Subaru expert but I think the EJ motors had head gasket issues and has since been resolved since 2012. The engines are very finicky. Someone buys an STI or WRX and slaps a cold air intake or even a silly little blow off valve and that confuses the crap out of the ecu. Not to mention the crazy tunes ppl put on them. A lot of people mod the crap out of them and drive them like they stole it, don’t check the oil, don’t maintain it. As a first gen, FA20 owner, with 155k miles, it still runs great. Maybe I got lucky? I was never a fan of the boxer due to the stories behind them and some maintenance is a bit tricky, but it’s a great chassis and down right fun car to own. That being said, I’m excited for something Toyota under the hood.

[@izzy031096]

Toyota is the king of sneaky performance engines. 4age, 3sgte, 2zzge, 2gr, 2jz, 1jz, 1uz, 2uz, 3uz, 1gz. The list goes on and on

[@FiregemGaming]

@@stevef3521 you must’ve gotten lucky who someone really took care of that Subaru before you, but my friend who was on top of maintenance working at a Toyota dealership, his engine blew at 87k head gasket blown it was a 2015 FR-S. So he made the call and swapped it out for a 1JZ fat turbo hasn’t had any issues since.

[@ShaiyanHossain]

hopefully the new gen 86 can turn right this time without losing oil pressure

[@zydomason]

You better appreciate how affordable it is in the US right now. In Europe it's anything between 40 and 60k USD. And people will still buy it.

[@redlion145]

I saw one guy in the FT86 reddit who posted a sales ad from his country, they were asking the equivalent of 110k USD for a base first gen 86. Turns out the lira is a really bad currency to try to buy things with, especially if what you're buying was not made in your country. But I take your point, the EU countries are all competing to outdo each other on consumption, fuel and pollution taxes. Makes for a not very healthy enthusiast crowd, when you have to be a rich SOB to even afford an entry level sports car.

[@OrionInception]

Got the GR86 about 2 months ago. Its such a fun car to drive. Looking forward to the new generation.

[@DJG37S]

Hope you don't track it, until you get some baffles or wait for a fix from Toyota/Subaru, because if you haven't heard the GR86 suffers some REALLY bad oil starvation when making hard right hand turns to the point where the oil pressure will drop to 28 PSI at 6600 RPM WHICH IS STUPID LOW.

[@OrionInception]

@DJG37S it's doing great so far but I'm fully aware of the issues. Going to get that taken care of.

[@POPOLAMEYT]

I have 42k miles on the dash still running smoothly on my gr86 I think the engine problems come with the manual I'm afraid to admit I got an automatic but I never had any oil problems

[@DJG37S]

@@POPOLAMEYT The oiling issue has nothing to do with the transmission. This effects both auto's and manual because of how the oil pump is designed. Go search on youtube "BRZ/GR86 FA24 Oil Pressure Loss Demonstration" and watch the video from 900BRZ demonstrate how this has nothing to do with the transmission. It's the fact that there is barely any oil pressure making hard right hand corners because of the way the oil pan and the oil pump is designed.

[@876yuugt]

​@@DJG37Sso did E36 M3s. 50K km. No engine mods. 2 years of track days & AutoX. It's a huge problem on YT. Real world? Not so much.

[@noah22261]

The boxer motor has rtv issues and oil starvation on hard right up turns. There’s a pretty scientific video floating around on it. Toyota could easily dev a 250 hp I4 motor

[@Treaxvour]

I have reason to believe they were planning on using a version of the 2ar fe if the deal with subaru didn't go through. The power would have been similar in the 1st gen, but they obviously wanted a lower center of gravity from the boxer.

[@stevef3521]

@@Treaxvourso a rwd tC?

[@toyotaprius79]

Why not with +50hp hybrid battery?

[@noah22261]

@@Treaxvour in my opinion I don’t think the lower center of gravity is worth more then the reliability of a I4 motor. Miata’s seem to do fine with them for example. A hybrid could work but more R&D would drive up costs on this “affordable roadster. Battery pack would lower center of gravity too.

[@Unxpekted]

Why not throw the engine from the Corolla GR

[@user-pq9li6yk2w]

" Imagine... an a engine 1,6t. inline 3 from the 2023 Corolla GS with a extra piston to make a 2.2t with 400hp !!!"

[@chancewilson207]

I keep hearing buzz about Toyota resurrecting the Celica. But I don’t see how Toyota has room in their line up for BOTH a Celica and a GR86. So something is definitely afoot.

[@jeffinjapan2549]

Kirk, another great video! You're the first KZbinr I've heard who refers to this car correctly as the ''eight six'' instead of as the ''eighty six''. I know you're focusing a lot of your content on cars in Japan, and mentioning a lot of Japanese place names. I just thought you might like to know that the pronunciation of Gunma should be ''Goon-ma''. Though, ''gan-ma'' does sound cool : )

[@fortheloveofnoise9298]

The MR2 will probably be the new entry model.

[@redlion145]

That's IF it gets a worldwide release. Ugly rumors going around that it won't be for sale in US or EU, leaving just the Aussies and Japan. I'd love to buy one, but I'm not going to wait 25 years to import one as a classic.

[@izzy031096]

@@redlion145I’m in Aussie so not complaining

[@OldSchool9690]

I'm betting Celica

[@cpftank09]

That would be awesome if true! Love my SW20 and wouldn’t mind adding a new MR2 to the stable.

[@MaddNomad1015]

@@OldSchool9690 A turbo 3 hybrid "GR86" seems more like a Celica in my opinion, especially if it goes up in price. I have a feeling they'll rename it.

[@UglyBastard..]

If it goes hybrid.... I’m out!.... I’d rather stick with the Subaru engine than hybrid....

[@drakeninja]

Been a fan since there were less than 1k subs! Keep it up, Kirk!

[@rightlanehog3151]

Kirk, Your video leads to the fundamental question as to why Subaru continues to design, engineer and build their own powertrains so many years after Toyota bought such a big chunk of the company. 🤔I don't know if Toyota will build an affordable RWD sports coupe all by themselves but a GR Corolla Touring Sports with the European wheelbase would go a long way to covering all sporting requirements.🤩😁

[@christopherfarish4965]

You are a legend. Went to Toyota to negotiate pricing and the info about manufacturing increases helped trying to negotiate down an 86 price. They still kept a minor markup (didn’t purchase). Nonetheless, this is amazing for the toolbox when shopping.

[@SkyyMi]

I absolutely love the EJ engine from earlier turbo charged Subaru. I have and will own more. But I have been fortunate to drive a previous and newer gen BRZ and can say I don't find the same enthusiasm in a NA boxer motor. With that the car was a joy to drive to get that chassis with a Toyota engine would have me sold.

[@ET_Videos]

As a 2017 86 owner...I am HAPPY they are going to dump the boxer!!

[@10cent_not50]

Why?!

[@ET_Videos]

@@10cent_not50 It's not as tuner friendly as a "normal" inline 4 when it comes to boosting. these boxers are a bit delicate when you add forced induction ;-)

[@huanto6713]

What do you expect? people keep complaining of lack of power, not premium enough, and now Toyota is going to address all of those concerns, and the result is a more powerful and premium vehicle with a higher price tag. So now we complain about higher price? Nothing is for free, more of everything means more money simple as that.

[@brandonp5592]

I dont think thr price increase would be too crazy of they actually bring the MR2 to market. They wont have any gaps with the rumored price range of it

[@alabdel1388]

It's only a good move if it can stay as a manual (1st and foremost) and of course not edge into that 40k territory. Else it won't be worth buying when you have better options in the same price range with similar/better specs.

[@mattdirks7896]

I would just be worried about price creep. I'd rather keep the current gen around for a while.

[@Mr99Burns]

86 is closer to around $40k out the door not 30

[@omarawilson2853]

Hopefully the next gen has an engine more in line with the original 86. Maybe 4AGE or 2ZZGE inspired

[@izzy031096]

Yes pleeeeease!!! I want nothing more. I would go and buy one right away if it had a classic high revving four banger

[@omarawilson2853]

@@izzy031096 that was one one of my biggest detractors from the current 86 models. They just don’t scream and rev as happily as engines in the past. I wouldn’t mind an NA 2.0 designed specifically with High revving in mind. With today’s tech I can’t imagine it would be hard to make it meet emissions standards.

[@izzy031096]

@@omarawilson2853 absolutely, the 2zz’s ran clean as a whistle and easily passed emissions. With 20 years of r&d imagine what can be achieved

[@omarawilson2853]

@@izzy031096 thing I never understood was why didn’t Toyota just make the 2ZZGE RWD like they did for the 3SGE. The work for the engine was already done. They could’ve added D4S and Dual VVTLI. After all the 2ZZGE was the first 4 cyl to incorporate cam lift and VVT. The 2ZZGE was the perfect choice for the FRS/86/BRZ, yet Toyota went with FA20 instead just cuz of it low center of gravity which when you consider that engines issues doesn’t seem like it was worth it

[@bk8230]

I have a first gen 86, but I wasn't willing to go for a second gen. It looks more bubbly, and I have heard many of the oil issues have not been fixed. I am not interested in an unreliable design. I get if parts weren't strong enough they could be upgraded, but a block machined and designed with a bad oil system is much harder to remedy. I get for emissions and such they will go with the smaller motor, but they should put the 3.5 v6 in it. An aftermarket Supercharger or turbo and make 400+ horsepower and a ton of torque.

[@mcl_official20XX]

I'm actually looking into putting a 2GR-FSE (the IS350 V6) into an FR-S down the line, hopefully I can find a good base to make that project a reality

[@ezrawinslow]

Which trim of the pilot do you have?

[@hyphydan]

I think those 48v mild hybrid systems , which replace batteries with Super Capacitors will be more common and cheaper by then.

[@philspaghet]

Nah it's going to be between the engine and transmission

[@aurorajones8481]

Ive never driven the 86 or BRZ. I hear they are great track cars. They have their fanboys. I love the idea of a basic bare bones "sports car" which these two are classic examples of just that.

[@MKu64]

I own a current model manual BRZ. Amazing to drive - smile on my face every single time. I wouldn't say no to turbo from factory though 😂

[@wiegraf9009]

They're actually also quite capable as daily drivers because they have so much room in the back

[@RidgeRunner4501]

The 86 might go up in price with the potential MR2 coming in as an entree level sports car

[@jimiverson3085]

The 4-cylinder Supra doesn't sell at all. Maybe they want a turbo 86 to fill that slot, especially if a new MR2 end up priced close to the Toyobaru model.

[@junkazama7922]

I would rather pay more for a reliable inline 4 than a shitty boxer engine.

[@jeffk464]

@@jimiverson3085 Yeah, the BMW inline 6 is a pretty sweet engine. The BMW 4cyl turbo might as well be in VW's. ;( Of course the VW 5cyl turbo > BMW inline 6

[@theejasonbourne6308]

I could imagine its gonna have the 3 cylinder turbo from the GR corolla in it.

[@daylinriffel125]

Finally I cant wait for what toyota has in store for the gr86 high revving inline 4 perhaps or the gr corolla drive train...

[@davidteo9146]

They should try and do a $38,000 facelift model in 2 years and offer a higher trim model with the 3-cylinder engine slapped in there, a BBK, wider wheels and tires, different front and rear bumpers, maybe a bit of aero and some chassis bracing. Should be doable in 2 years time. Call it a day. Extend development of the facelift version to GX460 levels (12+ years)

[@jihan93213]

i wonder if they can make that 3 cylinder fit like a front mid engine layout like the s2000, i highly doubt it but that would be cool.

[@RosheDomv2]

My only concern is how they would pair the hybrid platform to a manual if they decide to.

[@KirkKreifels]

Easy for Toyota. They're making a manual for BEV...now that sounds difficult haha

[@connorcampbell5274]

@@KirkKreifels Their bev "manual" isn't an honest to god manual, though. It simulates a manual transmission.

[@stevef3521]

@@connorcampbell5274exactly. It’s a joke.

[@molethan6138]

Honda did it with the CRZ, I do not see why Toyota could not do it a decade later.

[@RosheDomv2]

@@KirkKreifels makes sense. Manual in a GR86 is the soul on that makes it what it is. I think Toyota will find a way.

[@Biggja22]

It'd be even more awesome if they did a complete redesign and make it retro like the old school ones

[@dwn5hft]

hard to like a $40k+ 3cyl turbo, when for ~$10k more you get the RWD inline 6 supra that easily makes twice the power with very simple mods

[@uiDende]

Does anyone know how long the current generation of gr86 will last? I want to buy it brand new but I still have about 2 years to go until I have the funds for it.

[@Jason.W.]

A convertible plz? I actually love the small backseat of the BRZ. Perfect for groceries or a dog, but with a full size passenger in the front.

[@epicraptorman]

I really like the Gen2 design so i wish they keep it. Just please fix these blowing up motors. RTV sealant and hard right turns 💀

[@WiHL]

Would it be possible that the cost for the 3 cylinder turbo would be cheaper come 2028? Due to manufacturing improvements, RND already being done, etc. Maybe that'll keep the costs to be relatively cheap? Wishful thinking with everything getting increasingly more expensive

[@PocketDrummer]

Costs for them != costs for us. They'd jack up the price just because it's the "turbo" version of the car everyone wanted a turbo in.

[@stevef3521]

2028 is too far away.

[@droptopp3479]

they shouldve used the 3 cylinder but detuned from the corolla to make aorund 250-270hp, but it prob would sell wayy more than the corolla if they did that which is competing against themselves

[@johnlexus1]

I love to listen to someone rambling for 12 minutes about an article that can be read in 1 minute with the same outcome.

[@thatanimator2724]

tried to order a gr86 at Toyota here in Japan like 2 months ago, they told me they've stopped taking orders because they are planning to something new. couldn't tell me any more. Subaru still taking orders, picking up my 2023 BRZ in 2 weeks.

[@misnomerl6329]

Just paid down payment today for Trueno edition at msrp and I live in LA 😆. Arriving sometime next year lol.

[@thatanimator2724]

@@misnomerl6329 yeah I was there before the Trueno was announced.. we got brand new gr86's and Brz's all over the place at "used car" dealers, factory new, msrp.. maybe a tiny mark-up

[@IanMuirhead]

remade 4AGE in a hatchback coupe is my dream, especially the hatch because that would make it way more practical.

[@bliglum]

This would be good news. That new boosted I3 would make for a great powerplant for a new 86.. Massively better than the Subie boxer which apparently has difficulty maintaining oil pressure in right hand turns.

[@Izzys_Autos]

Awesome news and I hope it actually happens. The reliability of the 86 platform has always been shotty with subaru's boxer engine (whether you like it or not). I love the current generation 86, however, more and more customers are experiencing terminal engine failures and its pushing people like me away from buying the car. Let's hope and see what Toyota can do with this car in the future!

[@Mycameron2323]

Yeah cause people throw a turbo and tune and expect it to be reliable

[@Vrexlock]

There are fa20s at 350k miles and many more above 200k not what I would consider unreliable, just an owner problem. But don't get me wrong a Toyota engine would be awesome.

[@throbbybobby7893]

@@jonathanwrx7805 Yup, people always defending their shit too smh. Face the facts, they been making boxers for time and they can't even get it right.

[@jimmypena2442]

@@VrexlockI agree but the FA24 had the issue of potentially falling under hard right cornering on track which discourages new buyers

[@BrayanOfTheRain]

I'm no Subaru fan, but my only hope is that new gen will use the current platform, as of Toyota what first comes to mind is a FWD 86 with an econobox engine, i wouldn't even be surprised if they do that.

[@unknownBYmost]

gunna do the 86 like the did the celica. RIP

[@wavy03]

I love my 7th gen celica, but certain things like having RWD/AWD and more trims on top of the GT/GTS, it would’ve been perfect.

[@Jason.W.]

A Mazda collaborated Supra replacement with the Mazda inline-6 would be awesome. Maybe it’ll enable Mazda to make a Mazda version with their Kodo design - MX6 sports or MX9 touring?

[@vinnycent007]

For me, this is hard me to believe these rumors as R and D and investsment on a new platform takes more than 5 years. The first gen stuck around for almost 10 years and we have been hearing these rumors since the speculation of a the second gen. But as a FR-S and now an AE86 owner, I love to see a proper Toyota Engine with tuned Yamaha sounds. You can't buy these smiles.

[@omarawilson2853]

Preach. I don’t personally own one of the twins but have driven a frs. As someone who owns a Celica with the 2ZZGE, the FRS/BRZ/86 platform would’ve been perfect for maybe 2.0 version of that engine. Can’t beat that Yamaha sound

[@vinnycent007]

​@@omarawilson2853I get it. I used to own a 3S-GE celica and that 2.0 sounded so good when it revs up. It is music.

[@omarawilson2853]

@@vinnycent007 you bet. Was really surprised when I found out Toyota didn’t go to Yamaha their long time engine building partner to make new iconic engine for the twins

[@Hacki_Roku]

and im still waiting on my gr86 bought last august ... so 3rd gen is not on my scope too much id say 🤣 but if 3rd gen is indeed an hybrid, ill buy another 2nd gen last year prod in a heartbeat

[@Slo_N_Low]

I had a 86 for a year. The fuel injector chirp sound lives in my head rent free.

[@jxmar_]

I would love that.. never understood that collaboration.

[@teotwawki00]

The oil starvation issue is way overblown. This generation of the 86 is a very special car. If you are running the car on the track and you are aware of any limitations, then you watch out for them like in EVERY car. The simplicity of this GEN 86 is the magic. I'm not interested in a turbo/electric overly complicated model. They will eventually ruin everything good and basic. 😢 Get one now.... Keep it....

[@farooki8021]

I think the G16E (3 Cylinder GR Engine) would be to expensive at least for a base model. Maybe they can use a reworked 8AR-FTS. Hoping they use a NA Inline 4 (225-275hp) with an 8000+ RPM redline.

[@connorcampbell5274]

If they go with an inline 4 with 8000+ rpm redline, this would truly be the 86 we deserve. I would be sad to see the flat 4 go. I fucking love my FRS. But I'm certain toyota can figure it out. I think this car desperately needs to stay NA.

[@jeffk464]

Its also higher center of gravity, it would mess up the handling. Nope, they should make the boxer engine work.

[@RogueA.I.]

If this happens, good luck getting one for an MSRP under 45k.

[@infidel900rr]

Let's hope it's not like the GR corolla. Keep it RWD, LSD, traction control all the way off, and able to play 👍. Otherwise, we might as well just go buy a more practical FWD depression chamber.

[@91_C4_FL]

Super excited about what’s being done with the 86! But I wonder what the future holds for the smaller engine Supra and rumored MR2 🤔

[@marvinmurakami8828]

They should drop the 4 cylinder Supra. It costs way too much for what you get. The original rumor of a 100,000 dollar mr2 would be doa. They should drop the 3 cylinder 300 hp engine of GR Corolla in it and be able to sell it for 40,000 to 50,000. The original joy of sports cars was making a simple, great handling, powerful fun to drive car. To keep costs down, the entry level models could eliminate things such as power windows and seats.

[@carboydorifutoparty3976]

​@@marvinmurakami88284 banger model was really to get it into the markets at the time. But I do agree,they should kill it off since they barely make many as is.

[@ty1olimmm751]

Toyota should use a 3 cylinder with hybridization to keep a “Naturally Aspirated” feel. (With hybridization…)

[@brianmwirigi200]

If 3rd gen gets electrification,will it be possible to maintain 6 speed manual for the enthusiasts?

[@farooki8021]

If they do partner with anyone it should be Yamaha or Mazda. Engines should be either a inline 4 (preferably NA) or NA Inline 6, whichever it is it also needs an 8000+ redline. I expect the price to go maybe around $40,000 but it’ll be fine especially if they come out with a new “MR2” for around $25,000. If they partner with Mazda I expect it to be way more “luxurious” than the current one, but sadly smaller (RIP Tall drivers). What I would want is them to do a NA Inline 4 and offer a TRD Supercharger and for a higher trim it to come with a NA Inline 6. I really just want a modern 2000GT.

[@gurpreetsoomal5408]

Yamaha helped build the 1jzge, 3sgte, 2zzge, LFA, literally all of Toyota's best engines. Yamaha ftw

[@af_speshul3564]

I love the boxer i feel indifferent towards subaru but a toyota attempt at a turbo boxer would be cooler imo

[@AustinSamuelF]

It’s more realistic to see Subaru use the current WRX engine in it (great engine btw), which could keep the price around $30k like the base model WRX

[@jeffk464]

If they did that, I would be in line at the dealership tomorrow. Yes please, gimmie

[@danhupp3830]

I might actually consider one if they develop their own motor! I'm simply not a Subaru fan and years ago when I test drove one I was a little disappointed, ended up buying a 9th gen civic si at the time.

[@pandaman1096]

GR86 Prime would be it. Drop everything and run to the dealership.

[@Silver803]

I want to get one so i hope they keep the price affordable. If it's 40k+ i'll look elsewhere. I don't mind hybrid as long as the engine itself is solid and comes in MT.

[@Notadrianmonroy]

What about Toyota placing a tuned version of the base Camry engine? 2.5L Naturally aspirated to keep costs down.

[@Paynos]

I love the BRZs/86s so much, but imo its always been the wrong way round. A toyota motor with a subaru chassis should have been the way. The GR Corolla Motor in this would be so good.

[@edgeman04]

Ever since Subaru dumped the STi right when I was ready to buy one, couldn't care less about Subaru anymore. I heard turbo now I'm interested. I'm curious if the Supra 2.0 has sold well at all, and if not this could easily replace that, with maybe a non-turbo version for the low price sports car segment.

[@carboydorifutoparty3976]

Supra 2.0 is combined with the 3.0 mk5s. Will say, it honestly doesn't matter anyway cause they barely make them and are barely relevant to where it's rare to see 2.0 mk5s vs 3.0 mk5s.

[@eddy7346]

I might finally get one if the engine is built in-house My love for the current 86 is solely due to its looks and the rwd aspect. Mechanically, I'm not willing to take a gamble on Subaru's boxer

[@iothomas]

Well where I live gr86 is sold for 57k euro, and that is because how taxation works here based on engine size, so a turbo 1.4 will be bringing that price down to high 40s low 50s

[@Sacto1654]

Now you really wonder is Toyota actually working on something more radical to replace the GR86: a true successor to the MR2. Built around a mid-mounted M20A-FKS engine and an all-new lighter-weight body design, the new MR2 will be "back to basics" sports car to directly compete against the Mazda Miata.

[@lincolnvue944]

Toyota can try to partner with Honda and see if they can use Honda 1.5 Turbo charge engine and they tune it up themselves. Or they can partner with Mazada 2.0 Turbo engine Skyactive engine also. I think both engine are good choices for the 86. 1.3L engine hybrid with electric engine with it sounds affordable but main question is that is it for the Enthusiasts builders like us? To tune a Hybrid Electric power 86.

[@hamishbartholomaeus]

Yeah…but could you track those engines without any longevity mods and expect them not to blow up? And if not, then it’s no different to the Subi.

[@JacesOwnWorld]

Makes me wonder why Toyota is thinking of getting rid of the Subaru partnership. There are plenty of stories out there with the new GR86 engine blowing up due to oil starvation, and story after story of Toyota dealers not honoring their warranty with the owners of this car. So makes me wonder if Toyota is planning on doing this because they don’t want to continue using Subaru’s engine, that keeps failing. Maybe they have plans to make it all their own, problem free…

[@LoveLikeaHurricane]

Just wait till you hear how shady Toyota really is

[@aeronYTco]

Is it possible for the GR 86 be a BEV with solid-state batteries?

[@KirkKreifels]

2035 anything is possible

[@aeronYTco]

@@KirkKreifels Still a long way ahead…but we’ll get there.

[@anydaynow01]

Maybe a H2 ICE would be a better bet for their sports cars if they can get the infrastructure in place in the next decade or so. EV sports cars are fast, but coming from someone who's EV commuting appliance is technically faster than their manual H shift ICE track day car, the manual ICE car is just way more fun and rewarding to drive at speed than the EV.

[@naughtysmurf64]

YES!!!!!!!!!!! We have been waiting for Toyota to build a totally Toyota GR 86!! I have a 2015 RS1.0 but would only trade it in for an acutal all Toyota car......the GR Corolla has 300 HP!!! Now build a 2.0 4 cylinder for the 86 with 400 HP!!! And Toyota has already said they are NOT going all EV's. They are gonna make ICE, Hybrids and EV. Nissan hasn't made a great looking entry level sports car since the 1994 Sentra SE-R!!

[@Jayjewelerofficial]

Put the trd engine that the lotus Emira haves ,400hp, with a beautiful sounding exhaust

[@vwrxlasvegas]

Let's hope they figure out a manual 6 speed on a hybrid!

[@remissiveslave]

Or keep the hybrid b.s for cars non car enthusiasts like. So done with this faux save the world b.s that simply doesn't, being the cudgel destroying good cars.

[@Max-wd8ox]

Please keep the multimedia within the dash board don t do like the Corolla gr AND no hybrid

[@nintendoatarikiller]

Good. The current FA24D can't even handle a day at the track without blowing up.

[@Soravia]

Must have front double wishbone. Preferably based on NE Miata

[@burkestaes8771]

Could this be a marketing trial balloon to see if there is value to make future changes?

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

I could see the next gen being either hybridized or turbo, but not both.

[@sshah2545]

Why? They're done this with the Tundra and the Tacoma. By putting in a tiny mild hybrid system they get the torque push of electric, and the fuel economy benefits while maintaining a turbo 3 as the primary drive

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

@@sshah2545 Cost and weight. No one cares if a truck weighs 3 tons. And trucks have sufficient space and modularity to carry a multitude of powertrains. The Silverado, for example, carries everything from a 2.0L I4 to a 6.2L V8. Sticking with Toyota, a loaded Tundra costs 110% more than a base Tundra, they're basically completely different vehicles.

[@sshah2545]

@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 I hear you, but Toyota needs to sell cars. The GR86 marketed as achieving 20mpg was underwhelming and disatisfactory in 2022. In 2028 when 50% or more of all new cars are being advertised as achieving 50-300mpg (literally) do you think this vehicle will sell? When all the e-drive shitboxes are literally faster than Toyotas brand new 2028 purpose built sports car? It's not happening. All their new motor units are forced induction. The GRC's 1.6 produces 300hp and still gets unreal fuel economy. In 2028 I feel like it'll be practically mandatory to have some level of E-drive. If they're going to intro a brand new model, and sell it successfully it's going to need it. They're not going to stop and build a brand new NA motor JUST for this car, especially if rumors were true and they're parting ways with Subaru on this project. Sourcing their engines is out. + my final point is Toyota is a smart company. They make good long term decisions. In 5 years they can launch gen 2 of the GRC to keep it relevant, with more juice and just throw the 1.6T + mild hybrid they developed for this car, into that car. It'll help offset the cost of development. And, the MGU they'd mount between the trans and engine wouldn't be huge and wouldn't be heavy. I think with switching from a flat-4 to an i3T with this EMGU probably breakeven on weight. All speculation man, you could be right, but I'm confident I am. Let's see

[@clicclikeifyouup7153]

after seeing toyota’s 3 cylinder engine powering the gr corolla i never understood why toyota couldn’t make their own engine for the gr86. the boxer motor is the biggest detractor of the gr86 due to its reliability issues.

[@KirkKreifels]

Cost. Subaru N/A engines are cheaper than than Toyotas turbo mills.

[@mrsoisauce9017]

@@KirkKreifelsplus a naturally aspirated engine is more fun to drive and purer than a turbo unit, which has lag and all that bullshit

[@clicclikeifyouup7153]

@@KirkKreifelsi get that 100%, i wasn’t implying that they should put the turbo 3 cylinder in the gr86. I was trying to say that it’s obvious Toyota can still make a great sports car motors so why are they relying on an unreliable Subaru engine to power this car when they could easily make their own NA inline 4 for the gr86 platform. they should have ditched subaru because the boxer engines are leaving a stain on toyota’s reliability image it works so hard to maintain.

[@jfrodr]

​@@clicclikeifyouup7153I think they could tune the Camry's 2.5 to get a little more power and set it up for a rwd platform, but I think the main issue is height with the current 86's platform, that engine must be too tall for that engine bay since it's all designed for the boxer engine

[@Andy-Andeee]

Perhaps a Mazda derived Turbo Inline 6 would be prime premium 💪

[@jeffk464]

Well thats Supra territory. Not sure Mazda has a better engine than BMW, but who knows.

[@Ezero8]

I still wish Toyota would make the Lexus UC hybrid sports coupe based on the 86.

[@jimiverson3085]

At $40K the 3-cylinder GR86 would probably supplant the 4-cylinder Supra, which doesn't sell well at all. That might just be an addition to the line beside/above the current flat-4 model. When the flat-4 has run its course, that is when we could see an electric MR2 as the entry-level sports car.

[@bige8397]

Where does the "MR2" come in this lineup.

[@takaradope]

Subaru is failing to keep up what built their brand so much and its sad and not making performance cars will make them looses their brand reputation

[@EdA-bz3bu]

The boxer motor was a failure in Toyota standards from the beginning.

[@MrXiongsta20]

Subaru just needs to input their FA24DIT from current WRX into the BRZ. It’ll keep the boxer engine to keep the lower center of gravity and it’ll be turbocharged. The only minus is weight gain and the loss of port injection. Unless, they’re able to keep the port injection and are able to turbocharge it.

[@AM-uk7jv]

So instead of excess RTV settling in the oil pan, you'll have excess RTV getting in to the turbo oil lines? No thanks. WRXs are having excess RTV issues too.

[@anydaynow01]

@@AM-uk7jv Sounds like an easy enough fix, just apply a bit less RTV. The first round of engines may suffer but going forward problem solved.

[@AM-uk7jv]

@@anydaynow01 Even the new 2023s still have excess RTV. They did little to nothing to fix it so far. Maybe for 2024? I don't think they will. It's Subaru here. They're like the Mexico factory of Japanese car factories.

[@MrXiongsta20]

@@AM-uk7jv the RTV is applied via robotics. It’d be great if they adjust it, however RTV is not the sole cause of oil starvation that causes engine failure. RTV has been present in the older FA20 engines and they hold up well. Not sure if you’ve got a biased opinion against Subaru, but they’re also a good company that Toyota took technology from to improve their AWD system. Do your research before posting something.

[@jocasi57]

If toyota could offer a engine that somehow breaks honda's N/A engine record of i believe 120 hp/l with a few kg's less and with toyota reliability is what this segment needs...

[@wezznsb7376]

Its a verry nice car its just a shame those 2.4 boxer engines are not reliable !!!

[@tofurki2752]

The best things about the current GR86 is the weight, center of gravity, balance and most importantly the price. It is a great successor to the AE86. A new platform with a more powerful and complicated engine will ruin at least the price and center of gravity and weight.

[@p2skater1]

Nope, a Toyota based inline four will improve the car drastically and make it more accurate to its ancestor

[@squidinkRC]

fuck that flat4

[@doorey2]

The issue is that this new engine does NOT hold up when driven hard. Many... WAY too many people who are very experienced track car owners have blown up these engines. Oil pan baffle, oil cooler, new fluids, boom. If thats not enought, the new GR cup car also uses this engine in its stock form. They have already been seeing major failures. These are professional race teams that can't get this engine to hold. As someone who bought a GR86, I'm extremely frustrated bc I was certain my car would spend a ton of its time on the track... now it can never even see the track bc I cannot afford a new engine

[@jeffk464]

@@doorey2 It doesn't need a new engine, it needs the current engine fixed.

[@patg3331]

@@doorey2 source: trust me bro

[@Blasphmr09]

Would the 86 turn into the rumored future Celica?