ENOUGH CURL? Deere 120R MSL Moving Dirt and Pallets: Deere 1025R

[@curtwhite876]

Had a blast, sorry I broke your pallet. ;)

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Ha! You didn’t break it! I was just giving you a hard time!!! Really enjoyed your visit. Thanks for making the trip!

[@curtwhite876]

@@TractorTimewithTim any time. Just a thought, it might be interesting to measure the difference in curl range of motion for the MSL and NSL loaders before you send the NSL back.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Yes. Need to do that.!

[@Jetfuel20]

@@TractorTimewithTim Speed up your video with the machine off and load raised. You can actually watch the loader arms slowly drop. In the time you were talking and then Curt backing up, the loader hydros drooped enough to touch the stack, even though it was easily cleared at the start. I'm wondering if the loader anemia is due to a valve leak.

[@tuffram2165]

Think you should bring your BX up and redo the loader debacle from before!!! Just a thought.

[@mostmusketboy]

Every time I see the 1025 I'm impressed with how much such a small machine can do !!

[@jimmywalker9245]

Thanks Tim and Curt. I feel much better about having the NSL version now.

[@rogerf3622]

Great review! Once I saw the curl limitations on the dirt pile, self-leveling was a non-starter for me. It would drive me crazy. On paper self-leveling seems so much better which is why your reviews are really important. Thx.

[@dougthegrouch]

Really enjoyed the video. Perfect solution: New tractor with BOTH loaders. Leave the forks hooked up to the MSL and bucket hooked up to NSL. Best of both worlds!!! If i was to purchase a new tractor, probably do the MSL.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Love the idea!!!

[@RockhillfarmYT]

Good video I just got my my MSL put on my 2038R today

[@travishamby3479]

The loader leaks down fairly quickly while y’all had the grapple up in the air talking. I went back and watched again and skipped forward 10 seconds at a time and it was very noticeable how much it fell each 10 seconds. Nice video. Really like the MSL.

[@DBlank72]

I noticed that as well.

[@NYTROeast]

So did I and wondered if it was because of the weight of the grapple or something to do with the self leveling loader

[@timraber6575]

I think this real world test teaches me much more than reviewing a spec sheet. I have operated several different skid steers with both a bucket and forks. One of the main problem with the forks was not being able to see the end of those forks as you approached the load. We were expected to unload things from a semi. Not easy with just one set of eyes. Self leveling is a game changer. The first skid loader also had foot controls for the bucket. Hand controls was so much better. Good job.

[@williambartholomew5680]

Yeah foot controls are tough, joysticks much preferred! I jocky pallets everyday at work using a WIDE variety of forklifts & loaders, skid steers are definitely the hardest mainly because they have the least visibility due to the solid quick-attach plate and the thick arms - often times even the cab limits my ability to look around the quick-plate. Doesn't help that they steer like tanks so any left/right action is pretty jerky..... My fool-proof method has become to tilt the tips of the forks up until you can see them above the attach plate (or tilt down far enough to see them below the plate when you're lifting high enough) then barely enter your pallet, now lower your arms and tilt the forks until they're level (use the fork attachment frame as your level guide) then fully enter once you've determined your tilt+elevation correct. Do that and you'll never damage any goods and look like a pro every time, sure it takes an extra 5-20 seconds but worth it since you're not breaking pallets, gouging trailer decks, or damaging goods.

[@hughhead9079]

Great series on the MSL showing the pro's and con's in the real world. Relying on marketing and specification analysis paralysis never tells the whole story of course! Another trade-off in dirt work seems to be how high an operator has to keep the bucket to keep a full load of material in the bucket. Looking forward to an episode on how the new shelter looks with all the attachments inside BTW (the happy day all the toys get out of the weather)... Building our similar "little shed" currently. ;)

[@KirtH27]

I stumbled on one of your many educational videos. You had a guest on, y'all where moving various items dirt piles and brush piles. The first thing I thought of was your place is like an amusement park for people with tractors to move stuff around!

[@JustinHEMI05]

I've been traveling for the last 2 weeks and am now catching up with your videos on the MSL. Before your videos, I've been trying to find out how to retrofit my 1025R for the MSL, but thanks to your videos, I an stop doing that. I'm glad we have another option to put in the tool kit, but for my purposes, the MSL isn't suited for my needs. Thanks for the in depth and thorough walk through of this new tool!

[@alittleofthisandalittleofthat]

Tim I think you have a new co-host. Not scared of the camera, can run equipment, well spoken and funny. I think he could fill in and do a few videos if you and your wife decided to vacation. 👍.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Yes, Curt is very well spoken! ...funny too!!

[@dannyboy9254]

NSL is the way to go.

[@Mrpaint06]

Thanks for taking the time to show where an MSL might work best and where it might be different from a normal loader. Very informative!

[@wendyandjodymaillet7503]

Great video y’all! The versatility of subcompact tractors amazes me. I hope to be the proud owner of one in the near future.

[@Kcolby47]

Good practical use trial comparison of the loaders. If I was getting another one, I would definitely get the MSL. Too many advantages and, in my mind, really no downside. I also enjoyed the conversation and humor, Lots of fun! Súper video, and thanks! Blessings!

[@5075E]

A lot more moving parts which include brackets, bushings, which wear. Way more grease zerks to grease gets old too. Much safer for fork work though especially with the crappy setup on the NSL vale that won't let you curl and lift at the same time. Won't be dumping loads forwards on the way down.

[@FelipeColby]

No downsides...I presume other than the cost?

[@keerymj]

With the slightly less dump range, does it still dump far enough to pick up the load and go mower ok?

[@KirtH27]

Interesting video on MSL, I ran heavy equipment when I was younger and everything was self leveling. My X585 is not self leveling, And I just keep an eye on the bucket and material in the bucket. You mentioned in your video about adjusting the hydraulic pressure, do you have a video on this? I would like to see a side by side comparison between a X series with a 45 loader and 1 series with a 120 loader. The one thing I really like about my X585 with a 45 loader is I can get this thing in tight spaces. This almost got me in trouble, I got down into an area by driving down some steps and around a tree, I almost didn't get back up the steps my tires were muddy. I have moved lots of rock and dirt with this little rig. The clay is typically hard packed which gives it work out.

[@kevinjansen2738]

Thanks for the great videos. You have saved me lots of money. Was gonna try and get one of those loaders for my 1025r but the last two videos have talked me out of it

[@bradmeacham6982]

The bucket level indicator rod does need to be adjusted for use with a bucket versus pallet forks. I've seen people recommend setting the indicator for the bucket and adding a secondary marker on the indicator rod using paint or tape for the pallet fork.

[@pbaddict1a]

Is the is the drift in the SCV or the loader cylinders? Looks like the loader drops about 8-10 inches in 4 minutes... if you click 17:22 then click 21:22.. its pretty bad. The geometry on the curl and dump is depressing... wondering why Deere let that out on the market like that. Keeping my NSL for a while. Thanks for doing these Tim!!

[@MrKamccarthyinc]

I've had my skidsteer for 18 years and it has a self leveling option which by design only works in upward movement. I never use it and actually like feathering the control as I need it to make it level. I think this Deere design is great. Good video Tim

[@mystified4074]

Doh, you said it agin Tim! Myth - Self levelling loaders are mandatory in Australia Truth - Self levelling loaders are not mandatory in Australia! However some Australian states require them to be used IF you have an employee operating the machine in the work place. I commented on your last video when you mentioned it but you must have missed it! I owned a 1026R and have a friend who runs a Deere dealership in South Australia so I'm pretty close to this. Don't don't want mis-information out there as I'm sure you have lots of Aussie viewers like me! Love your work otherwise :-)

[@robertbunch8362]

Towards the end, when Curt had the pallet hovering above the stack of pallets, I carefully watched the bottom corner of the grapple frame in relationship to the roof edge on the house. It appeared to drop VERY slowly. is this something you have noticed? Mine drops much faster, but still manageable. is this a factory design feature, to drop slowly? I also noticed that the pallet started at level near the ground, but the MSL loader is not a true SL. It induces a slight curl as it raises.

[@joshuapreusser2265]

Don't remember where I learned it, but one tip/trick that helps with getting pallet forks level is to find a point on the fork frame (or even the top of the vertical part of the fork) that's parallel to the top of the fork tine and watch that for determining when the forks are level. It doesn't solve all the problems of getting forks aligned/level with a pallet (especially when the pallet isn't on level ground compared to the tractor), but it does help quite a bit. Depending on the surface, putting the loader into a float position and ever so slightly curling the forks back can also be helpful (if the fork tines are tapered at least). Due to space limitations I store my pallet forks in the pallet that my grapple sits on so when I want/need to use either I inevitably need to slide the forks out and into a pallet at least once ....so I've gotten more than a little practice using pallet forks on a tractor....

[@travismoore3775]

Great video. I am interested in how much of a difference in the dump and curl there is between the NSL and MSL. Can you do one more video comparing this before you send off your NSL.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Yes.

[@rebeltech94]

@@TractorTimewithTim It may also be good to cover not only the lift height, but also how far the loader can lower. I've had my 120R MSL for 1-2 weeks now and compared to the 200cx it seems to have less downward travel. On my 200cx I could easily lift the front wheels in the air, this doesn't seem to be possible with the 120R MSL. I'd be curious to know if this a difference between the 200cx and the 120R, or a differences between the NSL and the MSL? I haven't decided if I like this difference yet or not.

[@peterkober6758]

Tim Christi I like demonstration the palet forks give a lot of problems can't see the ends but time in seat will help thank you God Bless All PaK

[@glenbreaks5448]

I have two medium sized older JD ag tractors, one has a 146 NSL and the other has a 245 self levelling. The 245 has a joystick, the 146 is the old two lever control. For loading there isn't much in it, either one is roughly the same to operate. After watching your video, I just compared the curl. Strangely enough, with these two, the self levelling loader curls back a wee bit more than the NSL. Both have adequate curl, certainly more than the 120msl you demo'd. The 245 is really nice on pallet forks. Still can't see what's happening out there though! Larger tractors are bad for that. I have spent a bit of time on the neighbour's 1025r. My first thought was " Wow, I can see the forks" . However it has an NSL loader and I struggled with the curl when using the pallet forks. I've unloaded lumber trucks with the 245 MSL and it was amazing. Once set level for entering the pallet or going under a bunk of plywood on the truck deck, you don't touch the curl again, just go to work unloading the truck. Going to see if a camera will help. Like you, I use those pallet forks a lot, even on pallets once in awhile! Curt's bad jokes are really good!

[@ericlaker1983]

Guys that is a very good video. Looking forward to more. Like the shed looks like it has turned out great. !!

[@stephenseiwert9672]

Thanks again for a great video! I can see the advantage of both, but I think I will keep my stock loader. Have you ever bowen the seals out of your cylinders? I have 30 hours on my 2038r and one of the curl and dump cylinders started leaking.

[@utubota5522]

I heard a Deere joke which I will share (my tractor is orange) "nothing runs like a deer or smells like a john" If I buy a Deere in the future, it would be because of your tests and information. Thanks Tim. Also, I have used the TTWT code several times.

[@ElkCreekAcres]

Good video Tim!! My 220R MSL has shipped, so I should definitely have it next week, I will not be doing nearly as thorough videos as you did, but I will definitely do a review and my opinions. This was a good series, likely changed a lot of minds. But as you said, with more use you'll be able to either get used to the curl or find some sort of work around. Again, thanks for another good series of videos.

[@daves2960]

Great video! Using an H120 on my 1026R, I use my pallets at least 75% of the time. Had to put some “green” duct tape on the level indicator to indicate the pallet-level position. In a perfect world, it would be nice to keep the NSL loader hooked up to a bucket and forks left on a “second” MSL frame.

[@beunbad]

How is for lifting dirt or using a stump bucket and also a grapple?

[@williammitchell9300]

Love ya Tim Glad your doing Good, God Bless

[@coypatton3160]

While I have very limited experience with ‘self leveling’ loaders, I have found what you did in this video. For bucket work, you give up range of travel on the bucket (curl and dump) for the built-in safety of not dumping material over the top of the bucket. I have used a couple of buckets that had a ‘spill guard’ built onto the top of the bucket. While one of these did not appear to be homemade, I expect it was while the other was most decidedly homemade, but both added that safety factor. But as you found with pallet work, the ‘self leveling’ shines. By the way I use quotes around ‘self leveling’ as I feel this is inaccurate terminology. Since it maintains the relative position of the bucket/pallet forks through the lift/lower process of the loader arms but does not level. However I do not have a better name.

[@BG-vq9fd]

I use my pallet forks all the time. I emptied a house into my building and it's all on pallets. I recently placed a loaded pallet on top of some 5 drawer file cabinets. Really dreading getting it down. I have a stack of pallets that I park my bucket on top and the forks in the bottom. I can switch them out before getting on the tractor.

[@bradmeacham6982]

On the rollback and dump issue... The rollback angle on on a MSL does not increase as the booms are raised. Whatever maximum it is at ground level is the angle it will be all the way to max height. There is a small learning curve with the MSL loader in order to get good at fully filling the bucket from a pile of whatever. The NSL loader's effective rollback angle keeps increasing as the booms are raised. This is a benefit up until the bucket lips are parallel to the ground. After that (somewhere around hood high), you can start dumping material out the back of the bucket unless you manually "level" it with the bucket's curl circuit.

[@oilyragsgarage7200]

Very good observation Tim, I'm always more cautious when the equipment isn't mine.

[@brosselot1]

I would say that it really is going to depend on what you are planning to do with your tractor. One question does the SLL cost more because it is not standard? Also I would also thing that moving dirt or gravel my engineering brain says that because you can not curl the bucket back as far you could possibly putting a little more stress on the top cylinders and mechanical connection pins. I know that on my backhoe we do replace the top pins more that the bottom pins. Just some thoughts.

[@nathanbrodeur]

Tim the self levelling loader also reduces the torsional stress from either side of the loader reducing the tipping potential

[@bradmeacham6982]

On the maximum roll back angle issue... I can't find publish numbers for the 120R NSL and MSL. I did find them for the 400R on a 4066R, which is a completely different beast than the 120R on a 1025R. For what it's worth... NSL/MSL rollback (at ground level): 33º/38º. Dump at full height NSL/MSL: 47º/47º. Dump at ground level (bucket cutting edge on the ground) NSL/MSL: 130º/130º. In this case, you actually get more roll back at ground level MSL vs NSL. As you mentioned, the 520M MSL on your 5075E does seem to have an adequate roll back angle at ground level. It'd be nice to have published specs for the 120R NSL/MSL.

[@elektrikman8834]

curt is a funny guy nice friend to have

[@Henderson37180]

I do like the hard steel cover over the hydro lines on the cross tube. When parts for the MSL are available, will the steel cover work on the 120R NSL loader? Can you check before the NSL disappears? This might be an interesting upgrade to the existing 120R NSL loader.

[@richodownunda435]

Hi Tim, I have watched all you streams so a big thank you for the info. I have been trying to decide between green / orange or other for some time, I finally went Green and got the 1025R. As I am in Australia they come standard with a 4 way bucket, have you trialed them? the bucket is very handy to do almost all the tasks you do e.g. picking up logs / brush, back grading & moving material. I have nearly 250hrs on the tractor and love it. I got the tractor with 60D mowing deck + 260B backhoe to manage my 2.5 acers.

[@tomreynolds5219]

construction loaders with the self leveling bucket you can get a more full bucket by coming into the pile, when you get to the front edge of pile raise the bucket 3 or 4 inches before you try to curl it .

[@Henderson37180]

Thanks Tim. Was originally thinking of MSL upgrade but found out it is not an upgrade to existing 120R NSL frame. Also in previous video the difference in lift and height capacity is not different. The MSL is great for pallet and man lift jobs, but I do not want to give up the existing NSL curl capability. What happened to the Auto Thottle? Did you defeat the auto throttle by removing the pedal cable? Thanks for also showing the 72 lbs starter weights. I have a pair that had been setting for round to it. Also envious of the hydraulic top link. Still waiting on your video of the installation and supplier of the cylinder.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Got a new 1025r...auto throttle went with the last one.

[@awiedor1525]

@Tractor Time with Tim, I'd be curious to see the comparison of curl angles, if you could use a protractor or digital level and see the up curl angle and down curl angle at ground level and also at max height. As well as throw a bubble level on the MSL and raise it from the bottom to the top of stroke and see if it holds true to self leveling or not.

[@stephenlake885]

You've been converted once already brother so it's entirely possible that the day may come of a second conversion to beautiful orange and to the realization that orange is not only different but indeed better. I find myself looking for a tad more curl on my 04' B7800 when moving rock and soil but its adequate and probably better for the hood the way it is. The seat is terrible though on this model as impossible to sit back in and always on the edge of it. Keep up the great videos!

[@5075E]

Like the NSL loader for my little 1025R and MSL for my 5075E. Like the ability to really shift a load to the back of the bucket for long treks by using the boom height. The MSL on the big tractor is the bomb for pallet forks which I rarely use on the 1025. Also like a lot less grease zerks on the NSL.

[@5075E]

An improvement on the ability to lift and curl at the same time would be greatly appreciated on the NSL and would lessen the need for the MSL. More maintenance on the MSL as well.

[@ScotWalt858]

Very informative! Question: Are you able to trailer the tractor with the canopy? Thanks :)

[@TractorTimewithTim]

With the Deere canopy, yes. With the Artillian canopy, no.

[@ScotWalt858]

@@TractorTimewithTim Thanks!

[@johnmcadams4738]

Another great video Tim (and Christy - and Curt too). I really appreciate the actual working mode you put the MSL through. It is extremely helpful in my decision making process as to which loader I want to purchase. I was all set to go with the MSL and probably will stay that course but it does have the drawback of the limited curl length. Here are the major plans I have for the loader. Maybe Tim you could give some advice on which way you would go if you were in my shoes. Remember, I'm a rookie operator so unlike you and Curt I have no pre-experience with working a loader. Here's my list so far: I plan on building a series of mounds on my 1 acre property as well as the yearly 20 yards of mulch dispersement (boy - am I looking for some relief in this department - currently using a shovel & wheelbarrow). So, with the mound building (approximate 400-500 liner feet total with varying height and slopes) - I will be using the front loader a lot. However, I will be storing my other implements on pallets and racking them so the MSL clearly has an advantage there plus the fact that you pointed out about the other uses for pallet forks and how they unexpectedly come up. But I have a concern about the limitations of the MSL on moving material. Thanks Tim your advice would be much appreciated & Keep up the great work on TTWT! Blessings to you and your family (and Curt too)

[@TractorTimewithTim]

I think the discussion between Curt and I was the best I can do to advise. We haven't used the MSL enough to have any more input.

[@johnmcadams4738]

I completely understand Tim - I'm just nervous about making the wrong decision. And with no experience with working on a loader it makes it a bit more difficult. With the amount of dirt that I plan to use - it almost sounds like the NSL might be the route to go but that being said am I underestimating the difficultly of placing my (soon to be) implements on the rack. Right now - the hours i'm looking at moving dirt vs. using the pallet forks is weight heavily toward the moving dirt. However, will I really notice or be bothered by the shorter curl length. As you can see I'm a bit confused / flustered. Thanks for your reply and I guess I'll just keep on watching your videos. Hopefully, for my sake you do some more digging / moving dirt with the new MSL so I can get a experts experienced opinion. Again - thanks Tim and God bless.

[@gkcontractor8432]

@@johnmcadams4738 I would go with the NSL with what your describing , as far as racking implements if you can't lift and maintain level manually I would be looking at a different brand of tractor.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

You’ll have no problem using an NSL with pallets. We show it in many videos. Take a look

[@johnmcadams4738]

@@gkcontractor8432 thanks for your input GK - I do think I’m now favoring the NSL at this point. Why be limited by the MSL’s lack of curl (and as Tim had pointed out - this is the real strength of this loader) and I have a lot of fun dirt work ahead of me - yahoo!

[@davesmith8936]

I was jumping forward about 30 seconds at a time from 19:00 on and that loader REALLY leaks down. Obviously that has nothing to do with the self leveling. How much did that grapple weigh? I wonder if the other loader leaks down as much? Is is a loader cylinder or tractor valve body issue?

[@wcnecaise]

After watching Tim’s video series, I’m not sold on the msl... limited range of curl and lack of advertised lifting capability make me think the msl might nit be worth the extra $’s? However I have no experience using a loader at all and wonder how tricky/difficult it is to learn how to operate birth functions on the loader?... and I wonder if the “ease of use” and “increased safety” should lead me to buy the msl? Thoughts? TY

[@Zurar]

You definitely have a much different soil down there than I do here. I'm curious how that MSL would work in the sandier soils we have here. I talked to my Deere dealer and they're supposed to be getting an MSL in for me, but I haven't heard back, yet. In what you see, Tim, is it as simple as just swapping the loader arms, or are the mast mounts different than the regular NSLs? They don't appear to be any different from what I can see. That said, I do have the older H120, currently, as my 1026r hasn't given me any reason to replace it with the newer 1025. That 1 extra HP helps a lot with blowing those wet and heavy early MN snows just a little bit further with the blower, too. The only changes I've wanted to make were the attachments themselves; the H120 to the 120R MSL and the 260 backhoe to the 260B with the cushioned lift cylinder (though I've gotten a lot better with preventing a "lift crash"). The tractor itself has been bulletproof, for me.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Our first episode in this series shows the detailed construction of the MSL, and discusses the potential for an upgrade kit. Please watch it.

[@johnheatherlees2129]

Tim how about comparing the dump angle of the MSL and the NSL. Those linkages near the end of the boom near the bucket should allow the bucket to dump further on the MSL than on the NSL. those linkages are there to stop you bending the curl and dump cylinders. Regards John

[@valleytractorservices9310]

TTWT calls it like it is, even when Green falls a bit short

[@FloridaDeere]

I've had forks since the 2nd week of my ownership but still use the bucket way more, will keep my original loader, but certainly if pallets are what you use very often, that should be the loader for you.

[@shanesherwood343]

So just wondering would a MSL help keep a loader mounted snow plow level when plowing

[@TractorTimewithTim]

pretty much, yes.

[@jamessteele3703]

After watching all three parts of the MSL series I am left with one question. How would the MSL loader work with something like the Westendorf Brush Crusher? Seems like the reduced curl function might limit the effectiveness of that grapple.

[@kevinbrewer2141]

I have been thinking of a new tractor and a self leveling loader is one of the options I have been thinking of. Looks like I will be watching to see if it right for my family.

[@GrampysTractor]

I can see getting the MSL for Christmas lights. I can put a ladder on a pallet and my wife can now raise me up and down smoothly. Tim, what do you get for the $600 or there about when you order the MSL? It seems like a little amount of money for the complete loader frame. Or is really just a conversion kit ? Do you have the ability to weight the bucket full of dirt on a scale? That would tell you the difference between MSL and NSL

[@TractorTimewithTim]

The MSRP of the MSL is $568 more than the MSRP for the NSL. You won’t be able to trade loaders for that amount ;-(

[@GrampysTractor]

@@TractorTimewithTim OOPs I Love my loader even better now. Thanks Tim

[@lucapecorari8801]

Could you do a video on hydraulic top links for sub-compacts?

[@jasonland3547]

Tim, are you going to compare the nsl and msl 220r loader? I'm curious if we would see similar results.

[@tomkeating65]

Now there's an 💡. Mix orange 🍊and green together. Rig the self leveling to the BX. Paint it orange. Oh boy. I'm going to get yelled at. 😁😁😁

[@TallTexasGMan]

The curl is especially troubling to me. I have felt that even my H120 needs more curl back to be really effective. To lose more of that would be extremely frustrating. I also like being able to dump and have the bottom of bucket come backward past vertical. This helps dump sticky materials more. I know space is an issue, and it would add cost, but a dual stage cylinder would help tremendously.

[@jordanchailland8444]

We use a 4120 with a self leveling loader and I have a 2520 without a self leveling loader. I have been considering building it into a self leveler. The ease of use, learning curve and safety for a helper running the loader to pick you up and down while working out of a loader basket is irreplaceable.

[@scottykify]

Just got my 1025r with the MSL loader. It does need to be very slightly modified to fit a 49-in bucket, and you're totally right the curl on it sucks. It needs to give up a little dump angle for curl I think. Just a small tweak to the geometry is all it would take.

[@scottykify]

I will admit I'm very much new to this tractor. I have two main complaints about using the bucket. #1 not being able to see the bucket from the drivers seat is hard to get used to, but this problem has to be normal for any tractor with a loader. #2 the curl of the bucket is very shallow. Keep in mind I'm used to skid and track loaders, so I might just need to get used to it. I have a grand total of 3.1 hrs on tractor! Lol

[@bobbean4702]

I have a JD 4320 compact with NSL which is handy and I use it a lot, but for a beast I fire up my Case 530CK backhoe with self leveling. it is capable of full range leveling.

[@mopeman440]

Hey Tim, Curt sounds like a really cool dude! Bummer on the curl, the MSL is a cool idea but it seems JD didn't do enough research and R&D to get it quite right. I hope they improve on the design and I would get one for myself, for now I'll stick with NSL FEL as I have learned how to use and go slow when needed.

[@semco72057]

I have a 3032E tractor and have had trouble determining the bucket level mark since John Deere engineers decided not to put a leveler rod on it. I have to bring the bucket down to the ground and I am assuming that your small tractor have the same problem on it too. After getting my tractor I used it to put dirt back into a hole which was dug out for him and he had to come out and assist me as I had trouble leveling the bucket after each load of dirt I moved. There was a sticker on top of the right edge of the bucket which was suppose to help with that and that didn't last long or helped me when it was on there with that problem.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

I think you can buy a bucket level indicator to add to your 3038e

[@haddenunger1214]

I would think that it would help having the self leveling loader if your doing alot of work with the forks. But I've been running a gear driven 2006 john deere 790 with loader since I was 5 so I got it down pretty good

[@ivanmcpherson1524]

For a new user would you recommend the self level or the other style loader. Thanks keep up the good work.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

I thought we discussed this quite thoroughly in the video.

[@ivanmcpherson1524]

@@TractorTimewithTim i ask to quickly before I watch the whole video. Thanks for the response though 👍

[@johnjakeman7391]

Tim Thanks for the great videos how did you alter the pressure on your loader for the 1025r and i know you sould not do it but does your loader drop if you left up regards john keep safe

[@chrisnash2154]

I found that the tooth bar, although VERY useful to pull up plants and back-drag to clear brush, makes it harder to scoop a full load. I don't like the loss of the curl feature on the bucket. I agree that the cost is justified when using the forks. I move pallets of hay for our horses and its a pain to GENTLY manipulate the joystick to keep it level when lifting.

[@jacobmaynor1889]

I dont have any forks, yet. I did see someone once use there level indicator for both bucket and forks. On the Deere use the bend for the bucket as designed. Then get on a level surface with your forks and set them level. Then mark your level indicator with paint or tape. Use different colors for different implements, snowplow etc. Seems like it would work. Again I dont have the forks yet. Hopefully soon.

[@karl9997]

This was a very informative video, albeit disappointing on the curl. I'll stick with the NSL loader, really need the full curl when cleaning out the flower beds etc. in the fall. I stuff that bucket as full as possible and the further back it goes the better.

[@Kcducttaper1]

You've got some hydraulic droop there sir. You can especially see it switching back and forth from 10:00 to 11:45.

[@mzerk1021]

Not sure if you are answering questions on a year old video - great overview of the MSL - I'm wondering about ballast -does a backhoe and loaded tires on a 1025R give enough ballast for moving dirt and gravel? Or, should I be thinking about rear weights instead of the backhoe? Best regards,

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Backhoe and loaded tires usually ok.

[@randallquiring9525]

How about a side by side comparison of curl stroke msl vs nsl? I'd like to visually see the difference.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Will try to do so.

[@mikerequa820]

Great video have never used self leveling loader can see where it would be safer and easier with forks but not sure with bucket even my 1626 Mahindra curles farther than that but mine still don't have very much travel I believe it cause bucket is to shallow but not sure. Didn't think I'd use my forks till got them I've got all kinds of stuff on pallets pretty much use them every time I get on tractor I've carried complete 35 ft trees on them love them things. Thanks for sharing really enjoyed video

[@CliffordAllison]

Did you install additional rear wheel hub weights? Who is the manufacturer?

[@seenithere]

I like the self levelling FEL feature, However for the $ of it up here & the lack of curl with the bucket, it's a hard pass on my part. If they fix the geometry of the curl then I'd consider it.

[@jamesdiehl8690]

I wear a back support belt when I work Tim. It helps a lot, I don't have backaches as much and I can lift things without concern. Just a suggestion, but it's better then surgery or chiropractic expense.

[@johngaudreau7506]

Good video. I learned about this new loader from this channel. I do think that loss of curl range is significant for me. I do use clamp on forks for branches and logs for firewood. Lifting close to ground means level is not as critical. Given a choice for my 1025r, I would not go auto level. If I dealt with pallets more, that might tilt the scale.

[@ERICMB24MF37U24F39]

Hello Tim, Christy and Curt loved the video and like the way 2 tractor enthusiasts talk with each other. wondering is the bucked the same or is there an other model for the MSL?

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Same bucket.

[@ERICMB24MF37U24F39]

@@TractorTimewithTim and the 4 in 1 bucked?

[@danielsharon524]

How does the self leveling feature get "set" since it can be overridden w/the available curl? I can see it w/forks but not w/a bucket.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

I don’t understand the question. Tilt/curl works as normal.

[@danielsharon524]

@@TractorTimewithTim Could very well be me not knowing how to ask it:). When you want the the bucket to self level, is there something mechanical that you set to engage the self leveling feature and then when you tilt/curl does it override that?

[@loulangkamp1]

@@danielsharon524 there is no way to "engage/disengage" the self leveling feature. With that being said, it really doesn't "level" itself. The mechanical linkage keeps the bucket/forks at whatever angle you set them at in relation to the boom. So if you set your dump angle to 15 degrees, you can raise or lower the loader boom and the bucket should hold that angle through its full stroke. Hope that helps.

[@danielsharon524]

@@loulangkamp1 Thanks! That makes sense. It's really a "dumb" system in that it only does what you tell it to do.

[@petewalker98]

Enjoyed the instruction

[@snymat_68]

The best of both worlds would be a regular loader with an electronic level sensor and some extra valving that would allow the operator to flip a switch and go from regular to self leveling by having the ecu adjust the curl cylinders on the fly while you raise and lower the boom. It could even have two settings, hold relative position (like the MSL) or keep the load TRULY level while driving, regardless of the terrain. I've been thinking of implementing something like this on my RK24.

[@jacobkrahn4172]

Once you get used to a self-leveling loader and you use it everyday you will never go back to the regular one

[@darrickhamerlinck5472]

Two functions at one time has its pros and cons after 20 yrs running construction equipment I have troubles with finding the sweet spot in equipment at times.

[@blakeperez6820]

Does this size MSL loader suffer from the same binding issue as the larger series Deere MSL? My 4066r MSL will bind. If you have the bucket at full dump and raise the loader arms, the loader will not raise more than a short distance before locking up.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

No. I have that issue on the 520M, but not on this loader.

[@blakeperez6820]

Tractor Time with Tim Thanks Tim

[@mark02tj41]

Good, informative video, Tim!! And THANK YOU to your helper today!! Good job, Curt! (But, next time LEAVER the Dad Jokes at home! :))

[@tinachambers4887]

NSL FOR SAFETY SAKE HAVE A DAY LOVE FROM TEXAS

[@TractorTimewithTim]

I think MSL is safer ... do you disagree?

[@tinachambers4887]

@@TractorTimewithTim yes I disagree the SLV IS SAFER ESPECIALLY FOR NEW OPERATORS

[@TractorTimewithTim]

@@tinachambers4887 SLV??? Now i think there may be misunderstanding of the acrnoyms. The "Self leveling" loader is "MSL" (Mechanical Self Leveling). The "NSL' is 'non self leveling. No idea what SLV means :-) I think you and I are agreeing that the self leveling loader is safer. ...much less risk of dumping something over the back of the bucket.

[@tinachambers4887]

@@TractorTimewithTim got it now Tim thanks for the info

[@ShaneZettelmier]

Your curl indicator will be different for different implements. What do you want to do is get some colored tape and for different implements put a piece of tape around where it’s level so you can still use it even when it’s off, they get a blue piece of tape for your forks and when the blue is it the level market then you know you’re good and so on with different implements

[@jimsmith8789]

Glad your doing well Timmer :), Can you tell me where you got the Hydro Top Link Thank You Jimbo

[@jakeschisler7525]

My biggest problem with a tractor is to remember to pick up the box blade, too many times I have either torn up the yard or blacktop driveway. So now I leave it up till I'm finished using it. I can see the box blade down and still forget to raise it. Dumb me. For me the self leveling bucket would be nice overall.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

I’m glad I never make any mistakes!!!! Just kidding. Seems like I can make the most basic of mistakes at times. Quite embarrassing!

[@loulangkamp1]

Can you get your hands on a digital level (sometimes called a smart level) and sit it in the bucket on each loader to compare roll back angles? The MSL bucket shouldn't fluctuate much from ground to full height whereas the NSL loader angle would keep increasing the higher you go. The most interesting angles would be from ground to roughly 3 feet high as these are typical heights for scooping materials in the bucket.

[@Freecan67]

I am greatfull to have Forks. It makes things easier to move around.

[@genedameier8746]

As the Bandit said, "I can drive any forkin thing around."

[@stevedeweysmith]

Does the self-leveling loader have more components to break and need replacement?

[@Wil_n654]

You do not have to have a self leveling loader in Australia but that vid that u made it awesome