Tragic Tangmere in Trouble Today 21 09 24

[@katherinetuck4434]

Outstanding cinematography & narration Tim. Certainly an eventful day! We saw the 47 from Armathwaite Signal box as it hauled the passengers back to Carlisle. Then got the 86 with a glorious sunset on Plt.1 on our return. Looks like it’s a Black 5 tomorrow 45212. It’s coming up from Carnforth and apparently going into the High Wapping Sidings at 04:47. Kate x

[@schoolshorts]

@@katherinetuck4434 Thanks Kate. Just received your message over breakfast in Wetherspoons Glasgow - stuck here overnight after a concert due to no late trains or buses.. Brilliant weather here - let's hope it continues for the coastal run tomorrow.

[@flippop101]

I’m not a fan of modern traction footage, but enjoy your videos very much. They are greatly enhanced by your excellent narratives. Very much looking forward to more. Thank you.

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you - much appreciated.

[@lisaodd3196]

I'm fairly new to your channel Tim, and I'm really enjoying your excellent filming and commentary. Your voice reminds me of a better time when people actually spoke properly! Wonderful work, Tim 😊

[@MasterMoyle]

He's a previously convicted pedophile.

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you Lisa - and welcome aboard!

[@YellowDellow-s8i]

Absolutely ! My own thoughts too. The same may be said of the latest offering from Ivan Dutton's channel 'Shed Racing' which today features an old interview with the inimitable Rivers-Fletcher recounting some of his earliest Brooklands reminiscences.. How refreshing to listen to a pukka indigenous Englishman speaking pukka English : There was a time when a certain broadcasting corporation would only employ staff who spoke with similar crystal clarity .

[@michaelmiller641]

Thanks for that video, Tim. Tangmere and carriages look so shiny there in your video, as if revarnished! Sad about the loco failure.

[@schoolshorts]

It was only a matter of time, I'm afraid.

[@michaelfeeney8437]

Enjoyed the filming Sir, very well edited. Was on a train in the Carlisle area and passed Tangmere on the outskirts of Carlisle. Liked your narration of what was going on. Many thanks.

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you - and glad you saw Tangmere while she was still in good fettle. She's had a long hard season and it's taking its toll.

[@morrislouiseeagle7161]

They have worked the old girl very hard this year hopefully she'll be back for next years tours Thank you for sharing this with us much appreciated

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you - let's hope so.

[@Angus_Trains16]

Hi Tim yes Tangmere created quite a mess yesterday. I got a little bit of footage of her sat looking very sad in kirkby stephen sidings however the crew seemed to be in good spirits considering the situation they found themselves in. Yet another amazing video from you , thanks - Angus

[@schoolshorts]

I fear it may be some time before we see her back in action again. It's a good job the season is drawing to a close - WCR are going to be having difficulty finding motive power for the remaining charters.

[@AndreiTupolev]

So now WCR are down to one air braked steam loco south of Fort William for all their charter commitments ... they really planned ahead admirably, didn't they 😐

[@schoolshorts]

Glad I'm not managing their affairs at the moment.

[@leeroberts1192]

Is that down to breakdowns or loco boiler tickets expiring?

[@verved1]

Tim I came across your channel today what a fantastic voice and narration. I look forward to more videos. From one Tim to Another. 👍

[@schoolshorts]

I'll try to keep them coming although the season is winding down just now. Best wishes.

[@stephenbrass1808]

Another great video Tim, we will have to see how serious Tangmeres problem is, i for one don't speculate, cheers . 🤔

[@schoolshorts]

Thanks Stephen. Time alone will tell.

[@wgj4813]

Great detail especially about Tangmere Thank you

[@schoolshorts]

You're welcome.

[@Planestrains-d5e]

Your channel has been a happy discovery for me today, Tim. Subscribed for future videos!

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you - welcome aboard.

[@thirdengineer]

Hello Tim another spectacuiar collection from you . From what l hear on the grapevine Tangmere was taken off at Kirby Stephen with a damaged rod which does not look too good. Like you say the loco is being used a lot so lets hope both for West Coast and its customers it can be sorted out. Thanks for sharing. Brian

[@Tristan_303]

I think it got pushed to hellifield then onto Carnforth depot from there. I was waiting at Ramsgreave for it and only caught the logs. @thirdengineer

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you Brian. I'm afraid poor old Tangmere created a chaotic situation for the S&C line and a nightmare day out for her passengers. I've received an account from one of the passengers who is NOT a happy man.

[@johncamp2567]

Excellent presentation!

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you.

[@alantoms3263]

Nice presentation - thank you. I did have visions of seeing Thomas coming into view and perhaps the Fat Controller on the platform, but perhaps that's me! Unfortunate about Tangmere, she's been working quite hard the last few months, but nothing more than she's been designed, serviced and maintained for. Sounded quite serious. Al.

[@schoolshorts]

I've received a number of reports from various sources - and they're all bad, I'm afraid. I also had a lengthy written report from a passenger with mobility problems - all I can say is that I'm glad I wasn't on that train.

[@055deltic]

An excellent film of a varied day's activity at Carlisle, definitely one of my favourite viewing stations since 1979! Your commentary certainly puts 'flesh on the bones' of the filming and your measured delivery is a delight to listen to - shades of Fyfe Robertson, dare I say!? Tangmere's failure is certainly a shame for all concerned - but she is a veteran locomotive these days and has some sterling performances behind her. Bulleid designed these excellent locos for less arduous Southern metals, where a 200 mile round trip to Bournemouth was the maximum, not 300+ miles over Shap, Tebay and Beattock on the WCML. Although this was a mechanical failure, I do sometimes question the driving style of some of those entrusted with our steam heritage. My grandfather was a driver at Glasgow Polmadie depot in 50/60s and even when long retired, would accompany me to see preserved steam in action. I remember he had some very caustic comments about smoke, cut off and steam wastage!

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you. In all fairness, we must remember that these WCR drivers handle a wide range of locomotives from all of the "big four" as well as a variety of diesel locos over an enormous route mileage - much more than your grandfather would ever have tackled. Having been a regular spotter in Darlington in the 1950s, their performances at Carlisle these days are far superior to what I saw on a daily basis from crews driving Gresley/Thompson/Peppercorn Pacifics which had all the maintenance facilities of a nationalised system behind them. Glad you enjoyed the video and thank you for your observations.

[@gavinwhitelaw86]

Nothing like Fyfe Robertson. He was Scottish and entertaining - not this English RP deadpan delivery.

[@Planestrains-d5e]

@@gavinwhitelaw86if you can’t say anything nice etc.

[@iandocwra1169]

Shocking to see 34067 without a tail lamp and with a white light on when being hauled back out of the station. This is a serious safety operating lapse.

[@inkyscrolls5193]

Not really. White lights may be shown at the rear if making a move under 440 yds (which this is).

[@iandocwra1169]

@@inkyscrolls5193 Really? I've never heard that rule before. Thanks. Where was it hauled to on leaving the platform?

[@inkyscrolls5193]

@@iandocwra1169 No worries, every day's a school day!

[@tattoo1084]

Nice filming at Carlisle as ever and a bonus with the three 66's. Good to see a steamer through Appleby. Wouldn't like to be a passenger on the return.🙄👍

[@schoolshorts]

One of the passengers put a detailed account of his return journey onto one of my earlier videos. Having read it I can only say that I'm glad I wasn't on that train.

[@Play_fare]

Seeing the modern LNER liveried train sets at Carlisle can make one believe they are in an alternate universe where nationalisation never happened and the LNER swallowed the LMS!

[@neilharrison7422]

Another great video Tim

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you Neil.

[@cedarcam]

Your video a few weeks ago did not pick it up but Les commented on the rough sound of Tangmere arriving in Carlisle and before his comment I thought it did not sound well. Now I wonder if that was the start of an undetected problem. This sounds serious from your comments and could mean no more Tangmere for some time. Lucky for West Coast there are fewer charters towards the end of the year

[@schoolshorts]

Thanks Colin. We can only wait and see what happens.

[@henrymichaelwilson8107]

Hello. The modern train's look nice in the colours they Paint them.

[@schoolshorts]

Most of the colout schemes are attractive. There are one or two down South that I don't like.

[@StephenDrysdaleBroughtylad]

Incidentally the loco has previous for motion failure at Winchfield on the Capitols Xmas Express in 2013. The connecting rod became disconnected after the crosshead nut worked loose after the gudgeon pin came out. The flailing rod struck the electrified third rail and then buried itself in the trackbed. Amazingly the crew were able to affect a repair for the train to limp to its destination.

[@schoolshorts]

The crew were very fortunate. The Settle and Carlisle line has experienced two severe accidents caused by motion failures - Blea Moor, October 1952 (no fatalities but 34 injured) and Settle, January 1960 (5 deaths, 8 injuries)

[@DavidFennessy-yj7du]

aren’t these preserved locomotives pampered and caressed and better looked after than they were in BR service though, they’re also not worked to the extent that they were in service years ago either, so why these issues with the loco????

[@schoolshorts]

I don't know enough about what goes on in the depot at Carnforth to be able to give you an answer, I'm afraid.

[@imogenharrison3432]

If they don't stop running that locomotive and get it sorted I can see Networkrail stopping it for them. This is the second time at least in a single month it has broken down and caused utter chaos.

[@AndreiTupolev]

A wondrous overreaction. The time before was just an AWS fault or something similar. Do stop being so dramatic 🙄

[@imogenharrison3432]

@@AndreiTupolev It needs properly sorting out. Behind it's failures is a complete evening of cancellations and chaos. The S&C is not a heritage line, it is a main North-South rail artery that carries people from Yorkshire and the Midlands to Scotland. WCR need to get that loco repaired properly before being allowed out again.

[@bobcornford3637]

@@AndreiTupolev Nothing much..... just a serious SPAD with the train just missing a collision and a ORR investigation with the Driver being subject to a prosecution...... so nothing much at all really. You should read the report - assuming you can. It's very damning about the safety regime at West Coast. Have a read - it might educate you and prevent your idiotic comments.

[@AndreiTupolev]

@@bobcornford3637 I wonder why you chose to adopt such a sarcastic attitude. I'm also not sure whether a signal passed at danger, which was squarely the fault of the driver, can really be said to be a fault of the locomotive

[@AndreiTupolev]

@@bobcornford3637 are you a regular contributer on Internet forums? Perhaps that's why you have such a strangely aggressive attitude.

[@pn112upfast]

Why's the coastal route closed?

[@schoolshorts]

For much of September the route was closed between Sellafield and Millom to allow for re-surfacing of the Eskmeals viaduct just south of Ravenglass. Replacement buses were provided but the intervening stations are isolated and situated on difficult, narrow roads. However, the line re-opens tomorrow and I'm hoping for a trip down to the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway. Hopefully some video will result.

[@pn112upfast]

@@schoolshorts thank you 👍👍

[@Robbo_13]

​@pn112upfast opened again this morning. Working up there later on today.

[@davidshaw3303]

Hi Tim. Superbly shot and narrated. "Received Pronouciation" was clearly understood throughout the empire in "steam radio days" despite the vagaries of short wave reception. Now we have incoherent mumbling dialects to translate! May I ask what model camera/phone you use? Thank you David.

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you David. Panasonic Lumix DC-FZ82 - a good all-rounder rather than top-of-the-range!

[@snocoelevators]

34067 definitely needs a break! UP Big Boy 4014 doesn't go out all the time hauling excursions on UP's subdivisions. Same goes for UP 844, the only steam locomotive that hasn't been retired by a Class 1 railroad.

[@schoolshorts]

She has been worked very hard indeed - too hard, apparently.

[@physiocrat7143]

Those Hitachis really look a mess when you can see all the clutter on the roof. The air resistance must add quite lot to the energy bill, and exposing the kit to the weather must come at a cost.

[@schoolshorts]

One presumes the designers must have taken these matters into consideration - surely?

[@12crepello]

The only equipment on the roof is the usual pantograph and associated equipment (as on any emu or electric loco) and banks of braking resistors which need to be on the roof for maximum heat dissipation.

[@physiocrat7143]

@@schoolshorts One would think so but evidently not. They can't even design a comfortable seat, when the parameters were known 70 years ago.

[@physiocrat7143]

@@12crepello What about the aircon pods? And shouldn't the braking be regenerative? Resistance braking was used in the 1980s and the energy dissipated through the heating system for much of the year. The clutter still looks appalling.

[@12crepello]

@@physiocrat7143 The braking is only regenerative on electric power. On diesel the braking energy cannot be regenerated so it has to be dissipated in resistors on the roof.

[@FraserWest-um4ue]

Very good video not so good about the steam train breaking down again and then problems with the diesel train at least the passengers got back to London even though the train was very delayed. Could the west coast railway not put another steam train on the route to Carlisle and get the one that keeps breaking down and get it fixed for next year that way it should be able to work properly next summer Tim

[@schoolshorts]

At present WCR don't have any other loco equipped to handle more modern air-braked stock. Tangmere out of action is seriously bad news for them.

[@FraserWest-um4ue]

I wasn’t sure that’s why I asked Tim is possible to get another company to do the train tour or not Tim

[@Wigglepiggy96]

I was in that train unfortunately. Everyone was gutted when it broke down

[@NickGarswood]

How did you return south from Carlisle after the failure? I understand the original carriages were terminated at Carnforth over 3 hours later? Thanks.

[@jgodfrey546]

Seems to me WCR's misguided bid to save a few quid will cost them a whole lot more

[@schoolshorts]

I fear you're right.

[@LeslieGilpinRailways]

At Kirkby Stephen waiting to see the rescue! Assuming it's going to head to Carnforth via Hellifield but who knows

[@schoolshorts]

It'll be good to get some footage of the manoeuvre if possible, to follow on from yesterday's dramatic events. From an account I received this morning, the passengers had something of a nightmare ordeal.

[@timhubbard8895]

Tangmere obviously needs major attention, or major overhaul. To the casual observer, it appears WCR are trying to trash out the maximum from the loco before her boiler ticket runs out! I was on that awful excursion and we only found out later on that the Spam Can was failing left, right and centre recently. This was a disaster just waiting to happen. Before sending steam traction out on such demanding run, you need to make sure that it's fit to run. West Coast Railways are not doing their reputation any favours at all, especially after the central door locking dispute they have been having with their mark 1 coaching stock on the Jacobite railtours, plus a SPAD episode on that line recently also. They will lose their licence to operate if they don't watch out?

[@samanthaleese52]

It was a verrrrry steamy departure from Tangmere at Carlisle. The station was full of steam!

[@schoolshorts]

- and a very smoky passage through Appleby leaving a powerful whiff behind.

[@physiocrat7143]

OMG HBTQ+++ livery. There's a lot to be said for all of the BR liveries fro blood and custard to the final inter city version.

[@richardmullens4707]

All aboard the gay train

[@schoolshorts]

I agree that the BR liveries looked well - provided that the same livery was used throughout the train. A mix of old and more modern in one train clashes horribly.

[@martindenny8642]

Nice to see that some idiot hasn't decided to tag the train with spray paint

[@Essexchris1982]

That's some top quality alliteration there 😁

[@schoolshorts]

Couldn't resist the opportunity!

[@smithyhouses100]

Why the return to Carlisle? Couldn`t the diesel just have carried on and competed the journey to where Tangmere was taking the train? At least the passengers would have been where they needed to be.

[@schoolshorts]

My understanding is that the emergency stop had resulted in wheel flats on some of the vehicles - just which ones and how many I don't know. Presumably this would have rendered a high-speed main line journey not merely uncomfortable but potentially unsafe.

[@smithyhouses100]

@@schoolshorts Possably replacement train back in Carlisle for WCML. Thanks.

[@justinhamilton497]

This guy should narrate all tv documentaries, voice-over advertising and continuity announcements! What a voice!

[@MasterMoyle]

He's a previously convicted pedophile who's trying to cover the whole thing up.

[@schoolshorts]

Hmmm - if they'd pay me what they pay some of our regular TV personalities - I would!

[@Basaljet]

18.47 Is that Katherine Bennet?

[@TRAIN8MAN]

Horses for courses!! WC/BB, especially unrebuilt should never go anywhere near the S/C. Come home soon

[@timhubbard8895]

Agreed! I was on that awful excursion. The Spam Can was a total disaster.

[@BIGV710]

looks like Tangmere needs time out as its been very busy lately tim

[@schoolshorts]

Indeed.

[@BIGV710]

@@schoolshorts it needs agood serviceing or scrapping its useless not made for northern hills

[@TheFrogfather1]

Poor Tangmere - maybe she’s been overworked. As the saying goes: if you don’t schedule maintenance the machine will do it for you!

[@schoolshorts]

Tangmere is just two years younger than me - and although I'm still remarkably active, I don't think I'd fancy the sort of punishing schedule that poor machine has been subjected to recently.

[@Play_fare]

In this day of plug and play and expectations of high availability we forget that these machines were a point in mechanical evolution that despite being more efficient and available than their predecessors, they still require more attention than their more recent replacements. Even the new build steamers with the latest tech and materials require a fair bit of maintenance which means scheduled down time to avoid unscheduled issues, which seem to plague Tangmere.

[@StephenDrysdaleBroughtylad]

Excellent coverage and you have received some ridiculous replies from some right crackpots🤡in the comments.👍

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you - there's always the odd one!

[@tidaljunk]

Tangmere is awfully smokey; what on earth is she burning?

[@timhubbard8895]

Her fitness to run paperwork, no doubt. Me, my partner, (both mobility disabled) and son were on that abortion of an excursion. You can probably sense by my post I'm not very impressed. Sure, failures do happen, (but the class 47 being declared a failure also?). What?? Even that loco couldn't take us over the S&C to retrieve the day. The chaotic way we were handled and managed by the RTC fell well short of professional. We paid a pretty penny to travel First Class over the S&C line on this excursion, we were treated unprofessionally and we never even got a chance to see Tangmere because we were told to vacate the platforms quickly on arrival at Carlisle because the station was extras busy with LNER service trains through engineering work. We never saw the loco either at the start of S&C departure because it got hauled in backwards and we got herded quickly on board for a highly hasty departure. On limping back to Carlisle behind the "crocked" class 47, we hardly had enough time to get over to platform 4 to get upon the hastily arranged pendolino service train, back south. We paid First Class and got Third Class service. No Tangmere, No Settle to Carlisle run, complete and utter chaos by the charter company also. Disabled wheelchair passengers were not ensured that they, (or us) were safely aboard the service train by the charter staff and a poor young passenger assistance staff member was trying her level best to vainly get a wheelchair user aboard the service train whilst other passengers were barging their way to grab the diminishing number of seats on the service train preventing them and us getting on. It was shameful that we were had to fend for ourselves on the platform with no assistance from the charter company staff to help out. We discovered they got on the train okay to the detriment of us. An absolutely shameful display, dereliction of duty and a failure of duty of care. A massive failure. waste of time and money, with lousy service overall. An absolute nightmare and shambles..

[@schoolshorts]

The Bulleid Pacifics always were smoky, even after the rebuilds.

[@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne]

The ever increasing numbers of steam trains breaking down on the main line, coupled with the resultant delays to 'regular' passengers due to the subsequent cancellations surely points to a day in the not too distant future where 'specials' are either banned or subjected to stringent conditions.

[@gavinwhitelaw86]

They already are. Daily Fit to Run inspection. Repaired to full main line spec. All it takes is a blocked oil line or something similar to fail a loco spectacularly. A failure of a modern train causes just as much delay so stop being so over dramatic.

[@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne]

@@gavinwhitelaw86 Dramatic? Don't make me laugh. What about those passengers on service trains who get their plans wrecked? If the companies who run these 'specials' had to pay the same delay costs that TOC's pay they would all be bust.

[@AndreiTupolev]

​@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne how many hours of delay and disruption have been caused by steam trains compared with signalling difficulties, or problems with the overhead line equipment, or the Pendolino that broke down the other week and caused people to be 6 hours late?

[@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne]

@@AndreiTupolev What a ridiculous argument. Just because the 'normal' services suffer delays does not mean it is ok to add to the problem with unreliable kettles running around the network. Indeed it is all the more reason to *not* allow steam 'specials' as they make matters worse.

[@AndreiTupolev]

@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne why ridiculous? Should Pendolinos be banned if they cause 4,600 delay minutes?

[@John-en6po]

No problem when steam trains and their obsolescence is realised, ITS SOMEWHAT SURPRISING THAT COAL AND WOOD ARENT TO PERMITTED TO HEAT HOMES BUT OK FOR THE DINOSAURS OF THE PAST. AS THE CURRENT ADMINSTRATION IS PRO UNION THE WAGES WILL RISE FASTER THFAN THE FARES TRAINS ARE NOT AN EFFICIENT FORM OF TRANSPORT FOR FREIGHT OR PASSENGER MOVEMENT.

[@tinders5069]

ha ha, what a complete load of twaddle.

[@TheNightOwl-ef7ih]

If you don't like these things keep away from the railway, you're an idiot!

[@bobcornford3637]

Did your Mum never tell you to keep quiet if you know nothing.....and DON'T SHOUT!

[@RoddCutts]

Nice footage

[@schoolshorts]

Thank you.