Trane & Carrier Package Units Not Cooling

[@HVACRSurvival]

I finally had a chance to look up what the large step down transformer was for. According to my book it was for the (460 volt units only) to power the draft motor. This system was a 208- 230v.😲 So I'm not sure why it had the transformer unless that motor only comes in 120 volt? Which would make sense so they only have to stock one motor? Like I've said in the past I don't know everything but I'm willing to share what I do.

[@gregbowman3598]

HVACR Survival I think I seen that once several years ago on a call center building

[@ErickHernandez93]

That’s exactly what it is for, it’s that big draft motor for those trane units with the barrel like heat exchanger if I’m not mistaken Good stuff man, you are the man!!

[@daveg8918]

No it’s the transformer for the hot surface igniter. When the heat relay makes it powers that transformer to light the 120v hot surface igniter the unit uses

[@HVACRSurvival]

It likely does both the ignitor and the idm because I know the hsi is 120v, but I did read in the service manual that it was suppose to only be on the 460v units and this was a 208-230v.

[@gregbowman3598]

HVACR Survival maybe ,thanks Rick , I’m still learning every day

[@J5NJAX]

You and big Clive blow my mind with your raw knowledge.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Like I said I'm no expert on Trane, I just tear into thm piece by piece and break them down. As my old manager Carl used to say "if a man made it, a man can fix it'

[@alexanderboyd2280]

Good stuff as always. Im a residential tech and I’ve been watching your videos for a minute now. Definitely learned a lot.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks for letting me know Alexander! I appreciate it man!

[@throttlebottle5906]

glad to see you check between all phases and to ground also! so many miss that and jump past, but when it's 480y/277v it hurts/kills far easier or playing in puddles/raining, etc. better safe than sorry :))) says the guy who's wired "live" for 25+ years, I used to zap myself every few days if not thrice a day (120v residential) got hole of 277V once, it helped the current flow more and I'm good ;)

[@richbrockmeier3922]

90% off the units I work on here in the Philippines are chilled water with FCUs. The other 10% are split type freon units. Package units aren't a thing here. Maybe because of our weather here. Average temp is 85° with 90% humidity. Ducted units would probably lose too much cooling and condensate like crazy. Another great video Rick.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Interesting to hear, I do a lot of water cooled ice cream machines and Geo- thermal. Thanks 4 the feedback!

[@rookierefrigeration4357]

I haven’t had a whole lot of time to be on KZbin, I’m just catching up on your videos. That is a good find on those Trane units. 💪🏼💪🏼

[@HVACRSurvival]

I'd like to know why I'm not getting notified on some of the replies. If I wouldn't have checked this video i wouldn't even known that you left a message.😠 I'm behind on videos to, it happens, o well 🤣

[@Bjurran]

I don't work with this kind of stuff at all, but as a technician in a different field I spotted one thing. Pause at 7:48 and look at the incoming power. Why are the 3 phase cables wrong? Perhaps it doesn't matter in systems like this but in my job we always leave a clear note to the next guy about why we have shifted the phases if we really need to do so.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Are you referring to the red and blue tape on the leads? Correct phase is important in our field as well. Improper phasing can destroy a screw compressors in less than a second.

[@Bjurran]

Yes, I noticed in the video that the blue and black doesn't match the blue and black on top of the terminals. If I for some reason notice in my equipment that someone marked the wires wrong I would have to either change the tape or leave a clear note to the next guy to verify phasing if they ever need to do anything as we would assume correct phasing if marked at all. Great video btw.

[@HVACR559]

The colors on the incoming wires should not be changed. They represent each leg back to the pannel. If this were 480v they should be BROWN, ORANGE, YELLOW or BROWN, PURPLE, YELLOW, but the colors in the unit would be the same. Each manufacturer has a different color scheme, some use pastel colors on the same lugs. When the units the units were installed they were phased for rotation not the colors of the wires. If they are removed for any reason the tech will phase them for rotation again.

[@gregbowman3598]

Good one Rick , those Trane’s will drive you crazy sometimes

[@HVACRSurvival]

I have a really good book but I didn't look at it until now LOL. The biggest thing I've had issues with in the past was the ignition set up

[@gregbowman3598]

I hear you

[@gregbowman3598]

Working on victory stand up freezer right now

[@HVACRSurvival]

Those are fairly nice, better than some of them I've seen.

[@johnwalker890]

Good job Rick.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks John!

[@hozerhvac4406]

slick rick good job buddy. always enjoy your material

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Hozer, I figured I'd catch some crap for not knowing the Trane by heart 😁. I guess the key takeaway is work at it until you find it😁

[@theangrytechnician6649]

I do a lot of work on Tranes. 16&17 is where that fire alarm should be wired to, it’s the e-stop. The large transformer is for heat. They’re good units. Good finds though bud.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Justin, what are they using a the transformer for? I have their Voyager book and went to their class but I just don't work on a bunch of them.

[@theangrytechnician6649]

Without having the diagram in front of me, I know on the 460 units it’s the combustion motor at 208 vac and the HSI. I’m not sure if they use it for the combustion motor in any way for the 208/230 units. But definitely the ignitor

[@theangrytechnician6649]

Also, if you have an account with a Trane Parts center, they can set you up with their app which is a pretty good tool. If you have the serial number, you can get diagrams off it

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Justin! I appreciate the info 👍👍

[@jphvac5725]

Trane always aggravates me with their number system!! Idk why they can’t just keep it simple stupid! Great job rick!

[@HVACRSurvival]

You and me both 👍👍. It's right up there with every two and three word abbreviation.

[@Eddy63]

Good vid Slick Rick ... I always liked troubleshooting ...

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Eddy, I appreciate your support 👍👍

[@throttlebottle5906]

those resistors are directly below the thermostat plug also, and judging by corrosion on the terminal board, it may be an issue also(or someone shorted t-stat or batteries leaked in causing a short)

[@samhulsey5766]

I really like your tool bag.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Sam, I did a review of it if your interested in watching it.

[@samhulsey5766]

HVACR Survival I’m going to watch it

[@HVACRSurvival]

Sounds good, did you like it?

[@RJMaker]

I believe those units have a binary EMR stop input at the LV terminal board for smoke etc... (If not used there should be a jumper across the terminals, generally #5 & #6 If memory serves)

[@HVACRSurvival]

Good to know information 👍👍That is a monitored fire alarm system and I'm not certified for fire alarms so I'll leave it up to them to verify its all correct. Thanks 4 watching!

[@throttlebottle5906]

too much voltage drop going clear to the fire panel and back to break the whole transformer secondary, unless you add a relay/contactor to take the load. the indoor blower feeding/spreading fire is the main issue and very first thing F.D. does upon arrival is cut power to building and it stays off long term anyway :)

[@HughesManHVAC]

Great video Rick!

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Hman👍👍

[@raykeys360]

Rick u r the man !!!!!

[@HVACRSurvival]

Ray your crazy man 🤣 I just get lucky 😁

[@raykeys360]

In full honesty I have been referred to as crazy ray a time or too though 😂

[@HVACRSurvival]

😲🤣🤣😁👍🏻👍🏻

[@132Fonseca]

After review regarding the first unit at around 2:03-:05 I noticed the spark coming from the contactor closest to your hand in the video. Not sure if anyone else did.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Yea your correct, 👍👍

[@jeffgrant6914]

Good repair video 👍

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Jeff 👍👍

[@nategadow4482]

The small board converts 24 volt ac signal to the 0-10 dc signal.

[@crforfreedom7407]

Nice job Rick! Thanks for sharing that with us! Question: Do you ever use dielectric grease on those connection blocks and contactors, especially where you have dissimilar metals?

[@HVACRSurvival]

I do if I'm installing a new panel or wiring up a unit with dissimilar metals. It's a lost cause on this one because the oxidation had already happened.

[@alvinobalan2320]

Good day ser..i have trane package unit Pcv.led1 are blingking led2 are not Somthing problim to the system or it is okay...but the unit are working..

[@sergiodjf]

Wow! That Trane units is really old!. That controller has been obsolete for a long time 😮. Unit should be replaced

[@HVACRSurvival]

I agree, We replaced one with the Carrier unit but luckily we didn't do the thermostats. Thanks 4 checking it out 👍👍

[@thestzamaa]

Great video! What what brand/model is your tool bag?

[@HVACRSurvival]

It's the Veto TP-XL, I did a video on it if you want to check it out. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4qZaIxvrMuamdU

[@Ted_E_Bear]

Great job !!

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks 4 watching👍👍

[@THEDCCOF1977]

When it comes to the Trane unit, you are suppose to use the test pins and run the system through test mode by causing a direct short between the 2 test pins with a alligator jumper... Once the cycle switches to the test mode you want, at this point you are to remove the short... 1 fan 2 fan, energize economiser motor 3 fan and comp 1 4 fan, comp 1, and comp 2 5 fan, low heat 6 fan, high heat The 24 volts on the side pins with screws are for emergency shut off.. There is no true # code, it's all about who and how they decided to use each pin and where jumper blades are installed on the right side of the unit. Also Trane uses resistance/DC voltage thermostats

[@HVACRSurvival]

I have a decade box but these units were just converted with a control board so they would work with 24 volt thermostats.

[@THEDCCOF1977]

Understood, but the test pins bypasses T-stat and allows logic board to control operations for diagnostic problems... No need to figure and jump out components... Just some trouble shooting advise for others watching. That's all

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thank you 👍👍

[@HVACR559]

TRANE can be a pain in the ass. We had a unit that they said we couldn't put that board on. There tech had to come out and rig the system up to run conventional. I also prefer using the decade box to control them.

[@SombraLocs]

Great video!

[@HVACRSurvival]

I appreciate the view and comment 👍👍

[@juan251100]

You can put those thing in test mode by using the test pins.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Yea, I have a decade test box. But that doesn't tell me where the wires would go. 👍👍

[@RichGT350r]

Thanks Rick!

[@HVACRSurvival]

I have a lot more to edit, Im way behind after being on call lately. Thanks 4 watching 👍👍

[@donnierobertson3088]

Nice job

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Donnie👍👍

[@YuShudNoe]

This field requires so much patience!!! Hahaha

[@HVACRSurvival]

Definitely 👍👍

[@nickneal6938]

I believe those transformers have something to do with the heat

[@HVACRSurvival]

I figured it might be that or a convenience outlet. I haven't looked at my book yet 👍👍 Thanks 4 commenting n watching!

[@nickcampbell8096]

He is right. Step down transform 460-120 for ignition controls. Good to see a vid from you Rick. Lots of potential work on that roof.

[@HVACRSurvival]

I just now had time to look it up. That's supposed to be for 460 volt units so it can run the draft motor. What don't make sense is this was a 230 volt so why would they put that in there if it didn't need it? Seems like a waste of money.

[@nickneal6938]

Well it's a Trane for ya

[@everlastingdane]

@@HVACRSurvival Those Trane units are supposed to get 460 volts, looks like it was rigged to work with 230v, also those newer Carrier units have a design flaw with the abs plastic pulleys (they eat the belts up), whenever I see one, I immediately change it out for metal pulleys.

[@jfrancis98]

Well done.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks 4 checking it out, I appreciate the comment👍👍

[@seankelly311]

What brand of tool bag is that

[@HVACRSurvival]

TP-XL here's the video I did on it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4qZaIxvrMuamdU

[@joshuapoche5137]

Had a hurricane or something just after all them units were installed looks like.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Many years of different approaches to repair things. None of those were my style of wiring. I guess I've ran into many service calls for stupid stuff.

[@JuanTodoli]

Multiple attendance 🛠

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Juan👍👍

[@martinezelis9642]

Wow 😍

[@throttlebottle5906]

needs "noalox"/antioxidant compund on everything :)

[@HVACRSurvival]

Yep, if I wasn't under the time constraints I was plus it being like that on every old unit up there I would have done it.

[@brandonprice3927]

Thanks Rick!! Awesome work!! You might could check with Ted at Anti-DIY cause he seems to be like the Trane God... LMAO. But yes usually yellow is cooling circuit that should also include a high pressure and low pressure switch. Like you didn’t already know that...

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Brandon 👍👍I have a real good training book from a class on the Voyager but I haven't looked it up yet. Plus there is a back story to this job that I couldn't go into detail about. I appreciate the view and comment 👍👍

[@harrydickson4575]

👍👍👍

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Harry 👍👍

[@BlakDrgn]

spark came from the contactor

[@HVACRSurvival]

I just rewatched the video and I believe you're right, I caught it with their peripheral vision and wasn't sure at the time where it came from. Good catch 👍👍

[@throttlebottle5906]

that was iffy though, unsure if spark was from contacts or stacked up screw terminal spades. seen lots of hook end spades improperly stacked up before, making poor/loose connections

[@sharky5570]

Tranes has the worst wire diagrams

[@HVACRSurvival]

Lennox gives them a run for the money 🤣

[@sterlingarcher46]

Can you smelllllllll .....what ...the... electrical...is...cooking !!!

[@HVACRSurvival]

Lol 🤣....I ♥️ it 👍👍

[@crforfreedom7407]

FIRST!!! Why am I still awake!?!

[@SalvadorHVAC]

Because it's only 9pm where I'm at 🤷🏻‍♂️😂

[@HVACRSurvival]

Lol. You, I'm still up and it's about 1 am here. 🤣

[@HVACRSurvival]

That's why I don't mind releasing them late 😁. They get watched eventually.

[@Terry-zr6ys]

Running those compressors without atleast putting the panel over the hole is not doing those compressors any favors. Your causing a high head pressure situation.

[@atch_n_sons]

Fast paced no cool call, hope the customer got money back from last company

[@HVACRSurvival]

I'm not sure who, what or when but the contact person is now aware of what I found. Thanks for watching 👍👍

[@steveblake8766]

#25 thumbs up

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Steve