Counterpoint about the colorless back: you can’t sneak up behind him in the dark if you can’t see him
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
That is so true! Lockdown activating his STEALTH MODE!
@LiamDyC7 ай бұрын
*Lockdown:* "I warned you, Mr. Attinger of Earth. An alliance is a contract. And contracts, like humans, expire." *Attinger:* "On this planet, we have a saying: 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend.'" *Lockdown:* "I _also_ have a saying: 'I don't care.'" *Attinger:* "So what happened in Mexico City?" *Lockdown:* "Three hits, a mortal wound, then _your_ men allowed him to escape. You promised me human intelligence, or is there such a thing?"
@daydragoon3317 ай бұрын
“You think you were born? You were built, and your creators want you back…”
@King_Shockwave_7 ай бұрын
"EVERY GALAXY I HAVED TRAVELED ALL OF YOU SPECIES ARE THE SAME,YOU THINK YOU ARE IN THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE" "YOU HAVE NO IDEA"
@flipthescript10817 ай бұрын
On this planet we have a saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend
@ThatTFfan7 ай бұрын
@@flipthescript1081”I also have a saying, I don’t care”
@Transformersarecool7007 ай бұрын
“I DONT CARE”
@FennekinTF7 ай бұрын
AOE Lockdown is worse than TFA. Just saying
@besnikzogaj98877 ай бұрын
PrimevsPrime, let’s race to the battle!
@Jazmission7 ай бұрын
The green part of lockdowns chest is literally scourges mask
@Mako_Official4754 ай бұрын
"Once you see it, you can't unsee it"
@Rodimusprimerib7 ай бұрын
This really needed to be a original mold not a retool, Lockdown deserves better very underrated villian. The animated toy is one of my favorites
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
I agree! I hope we see this guy revisited soon!🤩🔥
@frenchfriedbagel70357 ай бұрын
Designers acknowledged that. We’ll get generations animated Lockdown with his own mold.
@FennekinTF7 ай бұрын
@@frenchfriedbagel7035 Will be sick!
@LiamDyC7 ай бұрын
@@frenchfriedbagel7035 When? In the new toyline next year?
@frenchfriedbagel70357 ай бұрын
@@LiamDyC probably 2026
@LesbianCacodemon7 ай бұрын
I hope we can see Blackout get the legacy treatment like this
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
I would LOVE that! Maybe they could repurpose Sandstorm!🤩🔥
@FennekinTF7 ай бұрын
@@PrimeVsPrime Could they remove all the car parts & the Triplechanger stuff/conversion, tho? It would be cool if they could.
@thecodfather62807 ай бұрын
@@FennekinTFif that means he gets downscaled to voyager price then I’m all for it.
@FennekinTF7 ай бұрын
@@thecodfather6280 Hmm, could they price him at Voyager price if they did that? Or would he still be Leader price? I honestly don't know, but it would be cool if he was somehow priced as a Voyager. Wait, hypothetically, if they did somehow price him as a Voyager, would he still be able to come with at least, like, 2 accessories? I'm thinking maybe, cuz the Triplechanger stuff & car parts would be removed, so maybe they could include at least 2 accessories. Right?? 😕🤔
@FennekinTF7 ай бұрын
@@thecodfather6280 Wait, hold on. The Codfather? hehe Did you come up with it yourself orrr...? What? Cuz when I think of "The Codfather" I think of Jim/Tim/Solidarity's character from Empires SMP S1. lol
@migatron17 ай бұрын
I love the original super stylised animated design styles over this. It's night and day
@JaydenRiley-sm2mb4 ай бұрын
"Autobots, Decepticons, like little children, always fighting, making a mess out of the universe that I have to go and clean it up."
@MrFedoraFilm7 ай бұрын
Even though he looks like the IDW comic version, I consider him the first live action Transformer character to crossover into the generation main toyline due to his ROTF toy head design. As to how there can be a ROTF and AOE Lockdown in the same Bayverse, simple explanation, he isn't. This ROTF Lockdown is from the Cyber Missions(the online CGI cartoon that featured toys from ROTF)universe adjacent to the Bayverse. Where instead of the missile he snatch from Ironhide that blowup and damaged his optics, it killed him. But before his death, he was Spider-Man:NWH multiversally teleported into the Legacy Universe.
@Galvatron_Studios7 ай бұрын
My collection is in desperate need of a Lockdown figure. I still want the Studio Series version though (even if he has a giant backpack) but he’s overpriced online.
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
I really need a new SS version too!
@TerminatorTheory7 ай бұрын
As a movieverse exclusive fan im debating wether buy this or not, its a badass design but its not even a real vehicle
@elitegamer210057 ай бұрын
So?
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
It is really cool! But nothing beats the OG!🤩🔥
@Saber-L.T.7 ай бұрын
I mean, neither was the original ROTF figure it’s based on is a real licensed vehicle. The only thing you can say is that it has certain elements that resemble (X) muscle car.
@TerminatorTheory7 ай бұрын
I think what I'm trying to say is ROTF's vehicle made an attempt of stylism AND realism, it's something you would see in maybe Mad Max. I am also a fan of cybertronian vehicles too as well, but this new guy's vehicle seems like it's just a brick with a clowny paint job, it's kinda hard to feature in stop motion, hell even Mudflap's silly blinged out Chevy Trax in his Tuner color scheme works 10 times better than this. I'm trying to make a little feature of stop motion mixed with live action, but I might modify his vehicle or something idk
@boredcreations87797 ай бұрын
But as a movieverse exclusive fan that statement makes no sense because look at 2007 megatron, point me to one of those in real life.
@Jonathan-zu8tk7 ай бұрын
you throwing bee through that portal hurt me like hell. poor bee.
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Haha 😆 the surface is foam-like so don’t worry it didn’t hurt him
@Jonathan-zu8tk7 ай бұрын
@@PrimeVsPrime thank primus also your one hell of a fast replier
@vivivindicator7 ай бұрын
bro is obsessed with the multiversal portal
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
😆😆😆
@80memes7 ай бұрын
Ik a lot of people are mad that it isn’t specifically animated lockdown, but it’s a really good lockdown still so I’m gonna be getting it
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
It’s not bad I agree!
@MagnusTheLegend1017 ай бұрын
Wow! Cool iteration of lockdown. It’s kinda like when a bayverse has g1 deco, awesome review!
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Thanks so much! I agree! It’s kinda a mix & match of a few designs!🤩
@MagnusTheLegend1017 ай бұрын
@@PrimeVsPrime I love when they do that
@crossover10157 ай бұрын
Technically that ROTF Lockdown isn’t a live action movie figure anymore, it was repurposed as the IDW comics version of Lockdown. So this figure is pretty much Comic universe Lockdown. I on the other hand am in love with this figure. I was recently hunting for that original ROTF Lockdown but my search only found some discomforting price tags so this is a better deal IMO and I’m really excited for mine to arrive. Plus I’m really glad he doesn’t have the Star Seeker symbol, keeping him as a freelance bounty hunter
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Oh wow I didn’t realise that they reused it!
@lesterantenor10267 ай бұрын
Tbh, this design doesn't fit in the bayverse anyways
@LiamDyC7 ай бұрын
That's exactly what I was thinking. The moment I saw that Lockdown figure appear on G1 Lockdown's TFWiki page, I knew that the guys at Hasbro should've renamed it "Comic Universe Lockdown".
@scalyvaporeon22327 ай бұрын
Defenetly going to pick this dude up at some point. As well as hopefully finding the ROTF or Animated version at MEGACON or something. My HUNT CONTINUES :D
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Oh good luck! The originals are top tier!🔥
@JeffLogan-yv8gj7 ай бұрын
Now that design is overused but it fits that design perfectly
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
I think so too! It’s cool for a one off
@JeffLogan-yv8gj7 ай бұрын
I didn't get ahold of the original mold but if I see this I'm coping it
@dragonscales897 ай бұрын
4 figs from this mold and I will have 3 of them😂. But, hopefully Hasbro is done with it now.
@AlEX-nd4ed7 ай бұрын
Do you know what I do like this design is lockdown but this figures face gives me a sad sloth vibes
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Haha 😆
@V3r0nicle7 ай бұрын
As someone who grew up with the DOTM DS game, it rllt makes me smile seeing this dude get a new toy. Can't wait to find him at some point
@cheemsofthemicrowave29297 ай бұрын
2:58 people are not talking enough about the lightpiping going harder when the head is lifted
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Ikr?! One of the many things amazing when it comes to the ROTF figure!🤩
@cheemsofthemicrowave29297 ай бұрын
@@PrimeVsPrime ROTF was the best era of transformers toys fr
@rorroryusoul7 ай бұрын
Very cool video primevsprime
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Thanks so much!🤩🔥
@Pyraticalpunk5 күн бұрын
This is my first transformer, I've had so much fun playing with him
@TFfangeek7 ай бұрын
Outstanding review PrimeVsPrime!!! Lockdown definitely is one of the great repaints/retools of the Legacy line. :D Keep on being amazing.
@Elitaprime487 ай бұрын
Got this guy on the way can’t wait
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Nice one! Hope you like it!🤩🔥
@SkyWalkerJR287 ай бұрын
This version of lockdown that I see. I would just give it. 9 out of 10.
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Oh that’s very generous!
@SkyWalkerJR287 ай бұрын
@@PrimeVsPrime I didn’t say I don’t like it. and it’s not you PVP I like the look of lockdown figure. What just bugs me is the legs. And the claw. The vehicle mode I like too also I’m not trying to be rude at all
@wobblewokgaming6556 ай бұрын
There's just one issue, Officer. I AM the vehicle.
@JollyMcCrowner7 ай бұрын
Maybe you could use two of siege mirage’s shoulder canons to make him taller
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Oh that is a very good suggestion!
@inquisitorjasen2164 ай бұрын
Need a larger lockdown period
@dkkanofkash87987 ай бұрын
Unpopular opinion but the reuse of Axlegrease's mold for Lockdown just works. The original ROTF deluxe figure is great and still holds up by today's standards, but this new one provides a great alternative at a cheaper price (if you manage to find it despite Hasbro's distribution), and it is also a weaponizer that can combine with other figures. Very fitting for Lockdown, if you ask me, who would find a way to survive and win in any situation.
@Arcjaw3 ай бұрын
When I first saw Axlegrease I instantly thought of Lockdown so it's no surprise that he got the same mold
@obnoxiouslegofan7 ай бұрын
Still disappointed that this isn't part of the Animated Universe, considering that Animated was Lockdown's introduction...
@An-Eva-Enjoyer7 ай бұрын
Thinking of reviewing the Star Raiders capsule? The Thundertron looks amazing...
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Maybe! It depends on their availability to be honest. Filch looks really cool!
@Eternalplayer4047 ай бұрын
I think this is the best deluxe class figure for a long time
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
It’s a cool repaint for sure!
@Byrdstar6423-un3me7 ай бұрын
I'm so happy that this is a thing now I wonder if they'll do an animated rendition
@jamesvoiles3647 ай бұрын
Is the arm looseness fixed on this ???
@yghostest7 ай бұрын
how would he use exaust pipes to torture any autobots lol. This guy looks interesting, but definitely doesn't do any justice to Lockdown, even with mods. Although if you flip the "booster knees" the other way around to give him a t-rex leg design it becomes a little more accurate to that RotF design
@sidearmsalpha7 ай бұрын
Missed out on the Axlegrease version of this mold so I'll definitely get a few of these. They can be minions for the ROTF one and armor guys for other Decepticons.
@Tyler_the_cremator17 ай бұрын
We got a lockdown and now we need a new lugnut
@jaredjameson37077 ай бұрын
His legs got imploded after jumping through the multiversal portal straight into the legacy universe. I’m still hoping they release this mold in normal junkion colors and recolor chase into Cyberverse lockdown eventually.
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Haha my kinda head canon! 🤩🔥
@primeenergon807 ай бұрын
Another repaint lol! Love the channel BTW! One of my inspirations 😅
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Haha thank you very much!🤩🔥
@Renkencen7 ай бұрын
Dammit man, thought today was going to be Tidal Wave!
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
I only got it yesterday, still need to learn the transformations. It’ll be up very soon tho I promise!
@coffeeinhandproductions32387 ай бұрын
Great review. Head looks great, colors are nice, but I'll stick with the first two iterations of Lockdown.
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Thanks so much mate!
@khalilsabbagh11797 ай бұрын
This guy reminds me of ROTB Scourge cuz of the head sculpt and the Terracon-like insignia on his chest. He'd make a pretty decent reincarnated Scourge in some stop motion fan series!
@That_OneGuy467 ай бұрын
Lockdown actually looks way cooler than I expected!
@binks96247 ай бұрын
Well, I’ve already preordered this guy and cannoball. People can say what they will about the figure, but, “I also have a saying, ‘I don’t care.’”
@SonofThor857 ай бұрын
The green on his chest looks like Scurge's mask from ROTB. I can't unsee it now.
@Cult_leader_saddler7 ай бұрын
I was waiting for this guy for a long time nd can't wait to get them.
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
It’s cool to finally see Lockdown! Although I had hoped for a brand new mould!
@Cult_leader_saddler7 ай бұрын
Just a thing I wish they made a new Mold for Animated lockdown Because I know this is not animated this is from the comics
@dubziscool7 ай бұрын
yo this figure looks sick. is this a walmart exclusive or something?
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
I believe so!
@ChadMarshall-xg5nf7 ай бұрын
That’s a cool, lockdown figure
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
It’s not bad to be fair!
@TwistedProductions207 ай бұрын
This is amazing, man g1 is getting a tiny dose of the movies 1st Barricade now a police car 2nd The Fallen being Megatronus now Lockdown looking like this. I hope we get G1 Blackout based on the movies like in Animated.
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
Agreed! It would be sick to see a repaint of maybe Sandstorm into a TF1 Blackout!🤩🔥
@zeusthefox1585Ай бұрын
Seeing as his wave is mostly his crew and G1 Prime. I like to think this waves story is The Star raiders are hunting G1 Prime, perhaps for the Matrix.
@TheDigitalApple7 ай бұрын
Since we’re getting Animated The Motormaster, wonder if we’ll get other Animated Stunticons? With some heavy retooling this could easily become an Animated Wildrider.
@trence57 ай бұрын
He looks ok, I like the IDW-esque head but I see him a bigger bot. I'm happy to have the RoTF one.
@LordBumblebee12387 ай бұрын
I think this Lockdown might be a combination of both his Animated design and his Michael Bay design
@nightstormthelaserdragon1347 ай бұрын
remember this ship prime?
@flipthescript10817 ай бұрын
The knights temenos
@nightstormthelaserdragon1347 ай бұрын
@@flipthescript1081 yup
@Renserin7 ай бұрын
I never found Axelgrease, so I may be getting Lockdown in her place. It'll depend if the Star Raiders show up at brick and mortar or not. Honestly I did like how clever Hasbro was at turning a tow truck into a rocket car.
@ultramaximusreviews7 ай бұрын
Looks better than Axelgrease. The headsculpt kind of has a Death's Head vibe
@HydroDaAbyssalShork3 күн бұрын
i got him and filch a couple weeks ago and when i tried transforming him today he broke but i was able to fix the broken plastic
@Thunderprime077 ай бұрын
Wow this is the best repaint of that mold, for me is definitely a must have, hope they make the studio series ROTF concept lockdown, that would be amazing, btw nice review as always bro ✌🏻👍🏻
@misterasa1837 ай бұрын
It’s hard to tell, but are the elbows different/fixed on this guy, or does he have the same elbow popping out problem as Scraphook, Axlegrease, and Tow-Line?
@scorpioojr6 ай бұрын
Just my luck, I think about getting a lockdown and it happens to be a repaint of Scraphook who I'd only recently picked up.
@miguelarcachero61037 ай бұрын
Thundertron, Magneous, and Ratbat will have redeco in Star Seeker Three-Pack this Summer/Fall 2024.
@isplat9277 ай бұрын
Now that I think about it, why wasn’t Shadowstriker, especially Cyberverse Shadow Striker, a remold of one of the Junkions or just a take apart and mishmash of different parts?
@evanmeirweber24 күн бұрын
is the back of the truck mode supposed to tab snug into the middle? because mine isn't
@hmisay49767 ай бұрын
I already have Axelgrease and Towline and I love the sculpt but they both have super loose elbows. This is an easy pick up for me.
@WyattCreel-wc5wf7 ай бұрын
My only issue with this mold is the elbow hinge When trying to turn or transform it it always pops off
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
That’s true! It’s not so bad with this figure but still isn’t great!
@WyattCreel-wc5wf7 ай бұрын
@@PrimeVsPrime yeah I think a simple pin joint would've worked much better instead of what they gave us
@MrAnthem1233 ай бұрын
I want a remold/retool of Studio Series ROTB Scourge for a truck style Lockdown
@Bossman2507 ай бұрын
plans to review baiwei scourge?
@Jetthehawk19947 ай бұрын
To be fair to this design, Lock down didn't have lanky legs in Cyberverse.
@CrimsonAzure-fh6yb7 ай бұрын
It's trying to be the RoTF design
@Jetthehawk19947 ай бұрын
@@CrimsonAzure-fh6yb That was planted into G1 hence why this toy is on Lockdown's G1 page.
@CodeXCDM7 ай бұрын
All ROTF Lockdown needs is modern articulation. It's a fantastic figure otherwise.
@braydontoston46925 ай бұрын
Does he not have the stair raider insignia on him at all like the other stair raider figures? He looks like he just has a deception symbol
@ThornOfSociety23 күн бұрын
The "animal horns" on the chest look more like the Star Raider logo.
@alanfoxwolf72337 ай бұрын
I know lockdown from Transformers for this lock. Down looks cool. Also, really cool.😊❤❤❤❤
@MudSluggerBP5 ай бұрын
Wut?
@the_account_of_bee1277 ай бұрын
THIS LOOKS 🔥🔥🔥
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
It’s a pretty slick repaint!
@the_account_of_bee1277 ай бұрын
Yeah
@Jack_o36545 ай бұрын
I mean the OG one turns into the batmobile what more could you want
@1711HD7 ай бұрын
Is the display portal used in videos from marvel or 3rd party?
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
It’s from the Marvel Legends Defender Strange!🤩🔥
@besnikzogaj98877 ай бұрын
Joe Thompson: Well Vavilos, It looks like the biggest bonus plans that we have the Blood Diamond Crystals energy of evil to take care of business including the Blood Diamond Stones. Vavilos: the question is that one, Joe. What would we all of us create if we combine the Blood Diamond Crystals energy and the Blood Diamond Stones?! Joe Thompson: Let’s talk to the conversation and discuss this to Devil King, King Noir and Achilles Five. However, let’s transform and find out to the bonus investigation and the battle round first. Super robots, robots and human intelligence is us!
@Soup_man3477 ай бұрын
I think if you look at this figure as a new version of lockdown its a great figure but falls apart as a rotf or animated lockdown. I like the idea of a junkion lockdown.
@3rdlegend4457 ай бұрын
You think if we petition for ss rotf concept lockdown, that we can make it happen PvP?
@ethanle1767 ай бұрын
Where do you get transformers stands I need one for posing/ stopmotion?
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
This one is called the Tenseg Base 🤩
@ethanle1767 ай бұрын
@@PrimeVsPrime thanks man keep up the hard work
@donkeykong64267 ай бұрын
will we get animated universe lockdown one of these days???
@smittzero84637 ай бұрын
I like the Legacy Junkions but this is a disappointingly low effort representation of a fan-favourite character. I might get him if he goes on clearance? The big question is: As this is the fourth figure to use the Scraphook arms, have they finally fixed the weak elbow joint or am I going to have to buy ANOTHER third party elbow replacement kit? As for the Crashbar arms being used on the legs, it looks like the upcoming Road Pig will include those arms in a more fitting colour.
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
The arms on this one aren’t terrible but still not 100%. About on par with Scraphook
@uainjansun7 ай бұрын
Question but is his elbows good? Like it doesn't have the QC issue you had with axelgrease?
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
A lot better than Axelgrease. Probably on par with Scraphook. I did have one pop off once tho so they haven’t properly fixed it unfortunately
@somarriba3337 ай бұрын
Looks alright. I do think it was VERY lazy of Hasbro using this mold for Lockdown.
@TravTrevTV7 ай бұрын
the portal is so outdated at this point i imagine the portal swiftly launching all the characters falling through a pit and their bodies piling up witht the intro theme playing 💀💀💀
@superkeaton99127 ай бұрын
That's a shame. I get the recolor and the new head, but I was hoping for either a more extensive retool, more accessories for his bounty hunting collection, or just a straight up new mold.
@FennekinTF7 ай бұрын
This Lockdown looks sick! Ofc I'd rather have a more TFA accurate/based version, but at least for the time being, we've got a great Lockdown! Right? I do hope we can get a TFA Lockdown some point soon (NOT using Chase mold. It doesn't work) This Lockdown looks awesome! I definitely want to get him! He feels like a really good _Lockdown_ ; not specifically any version. I like the botmode & carmode; I'm glad that hes got more green on the hood, compared to some renders. I actually kinda want to try stuff out, to figure out which way I like best, to make him look the most Lockdown; like, with the hook, etc. And, speaking of the Chase mold....HASBRO where is my Barricade!? I need him! He'd be PERFECT using the Chase mold! I found a post on Reddit (don't have Reddit, btw) of someone sharing a digibash of Barricade using the mold & he looked AWESOME! I need something like that SO badly! His accessory should be a flail-thing or buzzsaw, instead of Chase's capture claw!
@Warpath.Studios7 ай бұрын
great job on the video hopr your well
@Flordiababy_jay7 ай бұрын
Where’s Baiwei scourge? Is he coming soon?
@Skeletonizer7 ай бұрын
Idk why you wouldn’t swap the guns in the legs around so his double knees are actually pointing the right way
@theaether31247 ай бұрын
I was thinking about picking up all the star seekers but I don't know if I should now, not a fan of the reuse
@3rdlegend4457 ай бұрын
3:28 so this is how we treat Bee now?
@weewoo6956 ай бұрын
I hope this means we get more movie toyline characters in legacy. HFTD sea spray, breacher, and hubcap already have Neo-G1 Iterations via IDW, BWU, and the card game so you don't even have to call them movieverse. Come on Hasbro it's free money
@avatarppg14317 ай бұрын
I was going to say this on the yolopark Apelink Review, but I'd love to see yolopark try to create an AMK of Lockdown from AOE. That would look sick and it would be kind of like a partner for their TLK Optimus Prime they plan on releasing
@PrimeVsPrime7 ай бұрын
That would be super cool! I hope they start pumping out the waves asap! Their releases take a while to come out unfortunately haha 😆
@jonahcorona11787 ай бұрын
10:11 bruh the animated lockdown car mode is the best in the franchise. Not to mention if they stay true to the animated lockdowns proportions I could definitely head swap it to a fembot and that would be sick
@gilgamesh.....7 ай бұрын
I think this is the first Lockdown figure that actually looks good.
@CrimsonAzure-fh6yb7 ай бұрын
What about TFA
@Night52257 ай бұрын
This is the worst looking Lockdown figure imo
@gilgamesh.....7 ай бұрын
@@CrimsonAzure-fh6yb Nah, I like this aesthetic better.
@CrimsonAzure-fh6yb7 ай бұрын
@@gilgamesh..... They all have the same aesthetic because aside from TFA, they're all Generations
@gilgamesh.....7 ай бұрын
@@CrimsonAzure-fh6yb This one just looks best to me out of all the versions I've seen.