This Disc Is PDGA ILLEGAL Because It Goes Too Far

[@TylerThorpe-g4f]

Jesse, this is awesome dude! I was the one who sent this in to be recycled. Honestly, I had no idea this disc has such a cool story! I'm now informed and love that I was able to hold some disc golf history in my hands at one point. Love what you are doing bro! Keep it up!!!

[@docxen]

yea loving that they are not just chopping them all up without going through them. Hopefully some are being donated to schools etc.

[@reallunacy]

Do you mind if I ask why you sent them in to be ground up?

[@richardsilver1591]

I'd love to see someone with a really big arm throw one of those. What could Simon or Eagle or some of the newer guys coming up do?

[@FuckGoogle2]

I don't know their contracts but I'd imagine it'd be an issue throwing Gateway, would have to be someone with an open bag, Gibson maybe?

[@Tacocheesecake]

I had mark fedorenko (a local pro and ultimate play) throw a doomsday discs wmd, which is similar to the ninja. He released it low and it still went around 550-600.

[@VashTS21]

Or David wiggins jr the guy who holds the world record

[@derpderpin1568]

@@FuckGoogle2 Those guys have still thrown other brands discs in random youtube videos. They can throw whatever they want outside of tournaments.

[@JohnFester]

@@FuckGoogle2your name is priceless lol! 👍👍

[@AssassinAgent]

I assume there will be a trash panda variant of Ninja soon* And maybe in a PDGA approved form.

[@xxhcsk8xx]

I totally sensed the foreshadowing…. Haha

[@Flint_Hyzermatic]

.004” is the thickness of a human hair. Gateway literally made the rim a hair too wide.

[@oliveguardian7757]

Almost seems like that is on purpose. Wonder why they wouldn’t want it in tournaments

[@chrisfair11]

I love Gateway and Dave over there. The guy has literally done small batch runs on request for people looking for slight changes it what he produces. He also knows so much about all aspects of DG and is awesome at helping out new players and up and coming pro/semi-pros. Lastly his open bag policy on discs is sick as well.

[@jmillydg]

I need one right now!! Love that you set a “j-milly” gameplan early haha. Also, another heater btw 🔥🔥🔥

[@martinmelhus7324]

The sandblasting trips the boundary layer into turbulence, which causes it to be thinner, so the drag is reduced. The dimples on a golf ball produce the same effect.

[@brendancleary9490]

Yeah i used to have a Gateway Diablo DT that had "Dimple Technology" on the inside of the rim it was essentially golf ball dimples

[@martinmelhus7324]

@@brendancleary9490 I have one of those too. I don't have the arm speed to throw it right, but if I did, I expect it would go far.

[@JesseJ588]

This was the first disc that i became obsessed with getting when i first got into Disc Golf 8 years ago. I have 3 now, and cant throw them at all, but it has been a year so maybe i can control them now lol. But this disc created my obsessions for weird discs for sure, and is responsible for my insane collection of unusual disc's. It might even be indirectly responsible for me stumbling onto your channel a few years ago... I cant believe someone sent 2 of those in to be recycled. Those are incredibly rare and valuable now. That blows my mind.

[@Adriantaylordiscgolf]

Love what y’all are doing at trash panda, and I really legitimately love watching the content too! I can assume the manufacturing and shipping of everything keeps you pretty busy but it would be cool to see more content like this such as cool disc reviews and even playing through courses!

[@JohnFester]

eBay loves you now lol! There were 6 listings for these discs less than 3 hours ago for $16 each. Now they’re all sold except 1 listed at over $30. Lol!

[@BaysingersDiscGolfChannel]

I threw the Ninja recently during my #throwingEVERYdiscpossible series and found that the Ninja is actually on the PDGA Approval page. It says it was approved on April 21, 2017. Unless this is a different Ninja that they designed after for PDGA use.

[@JesseJ588]

The new Ninja is pdga approved and is a 10 speed. I don't even know why they called the new disc a Ninja. They're not even close to the same disc.

[@BaysingersDiscGolfChannel]

@JesseJ588 The one I threw has the flight numbers 9 | 5 | -1 | 2 so apparently Gateway is all over the place with this one 🤣

[@Iliyena87]

​​@@BaysingersDiscGolfChannelTold ya it was some funky buisness about this mold in its original form! Great to not having to dig through reddit for the info and more :P

[@Yankees177]

The PDGA ninja that is legal has the same sandblasted rim and TBH I love it. Its one of my fav discs (I am a Gateway Ambassador) that will remain with me forever.

[@blakdaimond42]

Great video! Fascinating concept. Currently, most new companies are trying to emulate each other and their most popular discs with similar flight patterns. Not enough new experimentation and boundary pushing. I work for Gateway, and while we don’t stock any of these old Ninjas any more, we still work hard to push boundaries. Unfortunately, this concept doesn’t seem to be as exciting to the average consumer as buying the same disc with this years new artwork. Changing the way things are done or diverting from the mainstream is never the most popular way to go about things, which is obvious from the fact that this disc was made over 13 years ago and is just now getting some hype from your video 😂 people thought it was crazy when it was released, and now it’s nothing more than a novelty. It will take some big changes to the disc golf scene to make any new exciting leaps and bounds in world of this sport. Thank you for your continued support of brands like Gateway, and your great storytelling, and excitement for cool concepts and crazy discs like this one 🙌

[@nolowputts]

There was plenty of experimentation before, but most of the discs ended up sucking (the groove, aerobie's weird discs like the epic and sharpshooter, and of course the quest at discs). MVP was really the last successful innovator as far as design goes. Beyond that, it seems like companies are seeking out discs that consistently fly well and trying out different blends of plastic.

[@weedmanbrandon]

I haven't thrown a ninja, the closest thing i think i have trown is a legacy cannon (167) it is a 14 6 -3 3. It was really hard to control but when i gave it the hight and power to flip and comeback i was throwing it well over 400ft. That was a couple years ago, i since have taken all disc over 9 speed out of my bag and still throw close to 400ft. Anyone out there looking for a "normal" disc to start working on distance with i would highly recommended a s-line Essence from discamaina, its an 8 6 -2 1. The essence is a bomber for someone with moderate armspeed.

[@docxen]

Love the "push the envelope" line if you decide to do more videos not related to the recycling discs would love to see that series with some of the ppl creating discs today. Like Tomas from Lat 64. Or outside of that box a little maybe with ppl like Bobby Brown who are finding ways to push their product and are not profesisonals.

[@Cratonymous]

From what I understood, the reason this was banned wasn't because of it being too easy to throw distance, it was that the rim was too big/can potentially lead to discs being too dangerous. The plastic that it's in isn't too bad, but the same disc in a stiffer plastic could be a very bad time. At least that's all the background info I remember about it when it first dropped/was discussed.

[@jawaring4367]

that's a pretty shit reason when people are capable of throwing 13 speed discs over 1000'. any distance driver can be dangerous, sounds like a bad excuse from the PDGA

[@danielsprehe]

I met David McCormack and bought one of these from him at a B tier tournament he was hosting in summer 2010. I unfortunately lost it in ~2012, but loved throwing it while I had it. Would love to get ahold of one again. At the event he was 100% open that it was not tournament legal and that it shouldn’t be used in pdga events, but that it was designed for a combination of pushing the limits of discs (aka r&d) and rec play. Some of the 1000+ rated players there could send them 700’+

[@ethanwatson8409]

I am so so happy to see this disc get some highlights. I’ve known about this disc for 9 years now and haven’t heard a thing about it since this video. Jesse thank you for showing off the first “15-16” speed disc. It has now been remolded and is a fairway driver I think. But I have my orange one I got fresh off the press when I did a tour of the gateway factory 9 years ago.

[@bosoxdanc1]

Gateway calls it a 10 speed control driver. 10 6 -1 2

[@ethanwatson8409]

Yes the new remolded runs are definitely a 10 speed. I own one and it feels like a 10 speed. But this run they called it a 15 speed because of the really wide rim. They gave the numbers 15/10/-1/2. Gateways number system was way wacky back then. I had to pull my old school ninja to find those numbers because I could not find them anywhere. I was actually bummed when I got a the new 10 speed ninja hoping for the old school one.

[@bosoxdanc1]

@@ethanwatson8409 oh yeah, I know all about the Ninja, I have one. I wish Gateway would get more credit after all these years, honestly. They've made some really cool stuff that goes under the radar.

[@TheStrangerlol]

I feel like this is kind of the same effect the super light weight G Star Mambas have as well. High speed turn with legit late speed stability.

[@spencedowns4851]

It made me so happy to see the echo wraith is still bombing for you. Just FYI...the most recent batch that they made is the farthest flying one yet for me. 😁

[@stefanhoffman7052]

Thank you for saying FARTHER instead of FURTHER. Its a goddam epidemic in disc commentary.

[@RustySeatbelt]

English. Good luck!

[@allenk5783]

You guys should make one and call it like the ozone! You could be repairing the holes in the game while flying sky high

[@caseysmith544]

Gateway has had a history of discs not approved for PDGA play, in the late 2000's or in 2010 the G9i version of the Wizard that was getting retooled top and reapproved by the PDGA got ban as did the Hard and one of the hard hemp plastic discs in the normal disc with the retooled top as well more back to the original top. My dad got lucky and his Wizard from same era of 2004 as mine was PDGA approved because it was a Medium or Soft Medium/Medium Soft but as stiff as PDGA rules allow for a 175 gram disc. My Wizard was no longer PDGA approved as was the late 2000's Hemp stamp in the Hard or some less common regular Hard so I gave it to a friend to use as his longer putter/driving putter mold in different plastics as a practice disc but he sold it to a guy for $35 that wanted it for the collectability as this G9i (probably to sell on e-Bay) is closer to the mold of a newer disc that is not a deeper more common Wizard but a different mold so he never liked the disc for general practice. Then there were the 200 gram Wizard discs first made in late 2000's after 2007 for those wanting a practice driving putter for the Wizard that have in a deep stamp on the discs Not for PDGA Tournament play, not sure if they are still made but a few people like to work those discs in until they are 175--175.5 grams in practice putting for a few years of heavy practice to then have a worn in disc that feels right with the bead but is Neutral to Understable at 175--175.5 grams, the max weight for a 175 gram minimum sized disc and the players they erased the color in the stamping of the word Not as the disc gets this worn in.

[@timnaylor]

Try the Tyanak from divergent discs. Looks like a similar top mold but without the big rim. It is a hyzer thowler even at altitude. It's so fun to throw.

[@cyle46]

I'd be curious to see the difference between this and the weapon of max distance from doomsday. They claim the numbers as 16/3/-2/2

[@bobmitchell9341]

How has nobody mentioned the TP/Pound bag?!?!? 🤔

[@tylergattinger2976]

Well, we heard Simon getting all excited about picking his own molds. Maybe we see MVP push the envelope next

[@JayWhitman82]

Naw Simon's just creating Axiom's version of his old Discmania bag 💯

[@coryfolkins1269]

Hey guys! I know we have some hiding here at the warehouse! I'll see what I can do about getting these on the site 🎉🎉

[@steveinflorida773]

I would like one let me know when posted

[@FizzyP]

Are you at Village Green? How did I never know Trash Panda was in Denver?!

[@massmayh3m]

He has a few field work videos at the village green fields. That was my OG field work spot when I lived in Aurora

[@massmayh3m]

Also, you must be new. He always reps denver/Colorado. No shame in that. Welcome to one of the best disc golf channels out there

[@Izz.yG24]

Tried to watch the video but holy moly dude just get to the good stuff

[@remingtonputter5162]

That squatch Lore is legit! @jesse where do I get one?

[@petek7217]

I've got one of those. I definitely threw it further than anything else when I used it. Sharp rim.

[@mikehosier1239]

I'm with gateway, back in the day Callaway had a driver that didn't conform to PGA standards and it sold really well. Average golfers are looking for any edge or "aha moments".

[@0redbishop0]

This reminds me of the Innova Katana. 13 speed -3 turn +3 fade. If you can throw it without burning it over its great. For me at least. I have heard its a bit of a meme disc.

[@roywright6124]

I have a Katana and I freaking love it man

[@ballzz2thewall]

I mean this thing does the same as the 2021 star Wraith run which flies 50 feet further than any other disc for people with a medium arm speed. It can turn and float forever, as long as you can throw it high and not nose up. A disc that only helps averagle players throw further shouldnt be banned. The reason why these 2 discs fly so far is because they both turn and fade at the same time (if that makes sense) these forces propell the disc forward.

[@lukeyoung67]

Just stopped the video to buy a Dune! Do I need it in my bag? not necessarily....did I buy it because y'all are awesome and I want to support awesome people? definitely

[@zxyxxyz]

Saw your comment on icebergs channel with that dommey destroyer, I was wondering why someone couldn't just pdga approve a disc like that

[@davepalmer9265]

I've been playing the past 3 years multiple times a week. I've gained distance slowly and hit around 300ft after a year. Still a crush for me is 330ft today. Im starting to think im too old or feeble! I always wondered why courses around here are 450ft par 3s. But I never see anyone throwing that far, at least not in person😂 unless its ledgstone

[@bryansans2564]

Gateway flights have a tendency for high turn and high fade. The new Spell is a perfect example

[@bradlasseigne8436]

I have a ninja with no stamp, no idea if it's the original runs like you have or the retooled version I heard about

[@TehTinkertrain]

Share looks just like prodiscus FASTi. I bought that one just because of the strange shape and it became my longest drive disc.

[@Iliyena87]

Go ninja go ninja go! Cowabunga! The point of getting the disc is being in nature nature with light exercise, at least there arent barbed wire, rock walls , electrical fence and nettles galore + some thorny bushes... my field at home is so great... ;P

[@32twest]

why would you throw from the sand? You lose all of your power without a plant step.... re-do with proper footing?

[@facelessce]

Try the doomsday disc WMD disc it’s a none approved 16 speed.

[@awlogue]

The huge turn and huge fade is actually a result of less gyroscopic stability, not more. The faster the disc is spinning, and the more it has weight at the very edge of the disc, the straighter it will fly.

[@RustySeatbelt]

Gotta have more to have less 😉

[@meister-t]

(just for humor) Drew Gibson throws a Luna 513ft in a putter review ;)

[@apo911]

where can you get these discs nowadays? would be fun to test it out

[@IceBergTV]

Ive been wanting a ninja but i cant find one!

[@RLKMMX56]

my dad gave me one of these to throw, super understable, when it hits something it makes a long spring sound because of its super thin middle part, the rim is very large which makes it very uncomfortable its preety old but mostly just novelty if you ask me

[@nickfotopoulos5323]

Looks like an Innova Vulcan with a slightly wider rim.

[@spadez7308]

Tomahawk should be shown more. I tomahawk alot and got a curiosity what weight differences are better and can I spin it and keep its height

[@SRDiscgolf]

Next disc for TP maybe ??😅 but with pdga approved rim i say go for it time for a distance drive 🎉

[@aarontapatio2257]

Its understable because it a very understable disc, the reason it gets so stable on you in its end flight is because that disc isnt meant to be thrown that slow, the disc needs to be moving much faster, its slowing down too quick and falling outta the sky essentially. Which is why high speed discs dont get noobs any extra distance cause theyre not getting the disc up to speed, even a very understable high speed driver in a noobs hands is going to fly overstable. If a pro threw that disc itd probably be an instant roller, and it would probably be one the furthest roller discs there is since theres all that extra weight on the outer part of the disc.

[@austinmitchell7224]

If you want a pdga legal disc that flies like this, you need to check out the Bohrium from Løft Discs.

[@batingbunnies]

I seem to remember hearing that one was pretty overstable? I've never thrown one so I could be completely wrong. I really liked the idea of it when they first came out though

[@forrestyineman1239]

I've used the bohrium and it's stable. Not over stable, just stable. Honestly the really rounded inside edge of the flight plate is not bad for backhand, but the forehand is almost unusable.

[@TheButlerNZ]

Don't like picking up your practice shot disks?... Get a mate with similar skills to throw from the other end of the field... Even with the odd slice/dice & shanks, you still walk far less... And oddly... I found it far easier to throw the disk to a person, than to throw it to a basket. WARNING: Catching Discs is actually a lot of fun... but start with some soft edge putter or mids.. and don't try stopping one in flight with your foot, it's only inches from your shin.. and the Audience are the only winners in that combination. (oh and a tip for catching a disk at 200+ ft... treat it like catching an egg... don't hold your hands still...)

[@mr1ply764]

Wait wait…. How do people not know about Harold Duvall freaking out about rim width? Or the general attempt to constantly sabotage gateway by innova?

[@p0p_t4rt92]

Is there going to be a baseline inner core restock soon? Been loving putting with them! Id love to get a stack and support ocean cleanup all at once.

[@LowGuppy]

You should make a disc that's like the ninja but with a legal rim

[@choseneball3526]

just buy a pop top f2 destroyer, wraith or other fast speed driver. they bomb. same dome as the ninja basically

[@Patbike]

How do I get one of those Dune shirts! Looks dope

[@kodyfine8956]

Im pretty sure the rim on the Ninja was downsized and approved in 2017. If im wrong, someone please correct me

[@vdecryption-2048]

Does anyone know where I can buy one? All I see online is the “revamped” one pdga legal version…

[@bloodyscythe7870]

everything in this video is just so cool. good job man.

[@AmeriMutt76]

Generally hate regulations like this Free Obree's Old Faithful! 😂

[@andyd8370]

There needs to be an "unlimited" division in disc golf where nothing is banned, anything goes. Watch some real innovation in disc design happen rather than fit some arbitrary standards.

[@Flakzor123]

I don't think there are any courses that can handle drives in excess of 1000 feet which is what we would see since "unlimited" means allowing the aerobie flying ring in various models. The standards are not arbitrary either though I don't personally know which part this disc butted its head against. (edit: rimwidth.. lol and so close... why not make it within the limits then???)

[@andyd8370]

Doesn't have to be a "far flyer" to be banned

[@triplespace007]

The first thought that came to my mind was something throwing a paper plate with bottle rockets attached to it lmao.

[@InbredJed82060]

Doomsday discs makes I believe a 16 speed. Obviously illegal. Would love to see someone with a big arm test it

[@steveinflorida773]

Where can I buy the illegal kind?

[@jerryclyde1]

You should make a max width rim driver!!

[@ericdunthorne1981]

Smart, make a disc for the average casual individual. The problem is the disc is way way too wide for most players let alone casuals. I'm sure it would be uncomfortable for most pro players. You'd have to be a massive individual with XXXL hands for this disc to be possibly comfortable.

[@aarontapatio2257]

Whoever sent you those btw is crazy cause those Disc's resale value is really high like 50-70 bucks at least, sorry too the guy who lost out on 100 bucks minimum 😅

[@QactisX]

15 speed with -3/3? Sounds like a PDGA illegal version of a Legacy Cannon

[@faceross8474]

But the real question is does it go farther than the WMD (weapon of max distance) from doomsday discs?

[@subtleknife1]

“Cannot be overstated” is the phrase you’re looking for

[@elusivelectron]

They're 20 minutes away from me. I mostly throw their discs.

[@diggpen1249]

The Ninja wasn't revoked because it went too far, it was revoked because the rim edge is so thin PDGA was worried it would be to dangerous if someone was struck by it. I wish I could find the interview, but Dave Dunipace (Innova Co-founder) has stated he think the PDGA legal edge size is to thin as is and at some point asked the PDGA to set a limit for safety, and that retooling discs that are below that limit wouldn't be to hard.

[@TMac2084]

Correct. These post Covid players have no clue about the history of Disc Golf.😂😢

[@sgib199]

@@TMac2084 The guy in the video has been playing way longer than Covid.

[@matgbx]

475?? Damn didn't know you were low key HUGE!!

[@ryansuter4424]

Just looking at the disc I think that it should be legal!

[@DiscGolferDave]

Great video!! That disc looks like it would be very entertaining to throw!

[@AndyNotSoSmart]

I want one! So if I'm a patreon sub do I need to do something to win a ninja or am I already in the pool?

[@Nomadmatty]

I wish there was some disc out there that is legal that would give me backhand distance😂 I throw distance drivers about 250 backhand a warship 320😂 forehand 420

[@boredplays8866]

Hey any chance i can buy that other disc off of you i cant find any anywhere just let me know i want me and all my buddies to try it out and have a great time with it

[@disguy3400]

Send it to Simon

[@billurban3940]

I’ll take one

[@caedmonster6336]

Hm Attrashpanda is a funny last name

[@nickstroke]

Sounded like some foreshadowing to me!

[@MrSTAYUP33]

how do the pdga approved ones fly

[@nicholasnoah6529]

good idea throwing nuetral discs to warm up.

[@ionymous6733]

is there a disc exactly like this but legal? Nobody is going to notice .004" or even 0.010"

[@evanmccune3908]

i saw gv park in the video and was damn we must be neighbors

[@billjacko2194]

In dialing that in, did it teach you anything to throw your Wraith further?

[@protroll697]

Those are bombers, especially the pink ones.

[@tannerwixx]

you know this guy watched a lot of vsauce

[@FishingWithAlexS]

I think it’s similar to a titanium nuke ss

[@williamhamilton6802]

I used be able to throw a 400’ thumber with the ninja until I broke it. 😢

[@kennykwong1028]

Lemme buy that real quick!

[@tattooedjohnson]

I have 1 would donate if you reviewed it proper. Wham-O used innova molds but had their own putter. 86 softy mold. Oop since 96. Most unique putter ever. 35 year player. Hmu if your interested.

[@bustatron]

I think you have happened across your next project. Copy the theory and make a legal one w/ 0.02" less rim width.

[@ryancooner266]

So you can throw far with it... doesn't mean much if it's illegal. Who's going to want to bag it? I sure won't

[@RedeemedChains]

should try out the WMD from Doomsday Disc. I can send you one

[@Enemiesexposed]

Viking discs are the best Ive thrown.

[@meister-t]

I thought the max rim width is 25mm, and this one's 20mm. So it's under the max width. I don't understand your statement. It's a 10 speed, and there are wider rims out there, which are pdga approved. Maybe they just never bothered to submit it. Or the sandblasting is what got it rejected. the 0.004" you talk about is buIIshit, because the plastic will vary by far more than that when measured at different points around the disc. the tolerances you speak of can be used with metal objects, but not this.