Magic Jar: How does it work?

[@muddlewait8844]

My favorite line: “...Orcus returns to his own body, and he’s probably going to be upset.”

[@johngleeman8347]

Me too. Made the whole video just that much better. XD

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I mean, I would think there's at least a 60% chance. At least. ;)

[@acm4bass]

@@TreantmonksTemple a 60 % chance that Orcus would be miffed? don't sell yourself short... at least 99% and 1 % he would be verklempt.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@acm4bass I said "at least"! /S

[@kholtsclaw5266]

At least dudes a demon lord miffed is the least of your worries. Demons hold grudges against people so long they pass that grudge down to your family. Not only that but you embarrassed him. Orccus would be down right vengeful to the point of hunting you and your characters future relatives assuming you survive his attempts on your life. Guy would forever be after your lineage. Miffed more like bubbling with blind fury a living creatures sould touched his body you're a perversion to him.

[@johnrowe1983]

One of my favourite spells, and one I'm glad to see you cover in depth. As a slight correction, on page nine of the Monster Manual there's a box labeled Armor, Weapon, and Tool Proficiencies that reads: Assume that a creature is proficient with its armor, weapons, and tools. If you swap them out, you decide whether the creature is proficient with its new equipment. For example, a hill giant typically wears hide armor and wields a greatclub. You could equip a hill giant with chain mail and a greataxe instead, and assume the giant is proficient with both, one or the other, or neither. See the Player's Handbook for rules on using armor or weapons without proficiency. So RAW all creatures are proficient with their equipment and it's just not listed in their statblock, presumably to save space.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

At work so I can't confirm, but this is listed under the "statistics" explanation? I didn't see it there when I researched the video

[@johnrowe1983]

@@TreantmonksTemple Yes. It's right at the top of the page in a lifted out text box, so you probably missed it. It's right above Darkvision, and the challenge rating that you technically get (which I think might cause issues with Polymorph).

[@muddlewait8844]

I can’t believe this spell is basically intact from AD&D. I always put it in the Exorcism/Cacodemon box of spells that you pretty much never see because of complexity, even though it’s really a lot easier to run than those.

[@WildVii]

I can confirm that this box exists in the MM on D&D Beyond. On the website it’s located just above the section labeled ‘Legendary Actions’. So that means that the Githyanki Supreme Commander would be proficient with its plate armor (assuming it’s equipped with it).

[@1217BC]

This is definitely a spell to discuss with your DM before taking. Trying to pull this out mid game with no warning is at best going to slow things to a crawl, at worst result in an argument over rules interpretation. Way too much depends on DM interpretation. Still, even under the most restrictive conditions, it's a really fun spell

[@UnbornHeretic]

"Orcus is back in his body and he is probably going to be upset." Understatement of the century.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

"Thanks for the visit! Come back anytime!" - what Orcus will not say.

[@Stormeris]

Using magic jar to possess someone, commit a bunch of crimes, unpossess and let the guy face the consequences. I mean, who's gonna believe him when he says "A wizard made me do it!"?

[@undrhil]

It worked in Double Dragon!

[@dylandugan76]

NPC: "A wizard made me do it!" Roll to persuade. Nat20. Wizard: "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUU...."

[@peterrasmussen4428]

Any guy who can cast zone of truth or detect thoughts are good candidates for believers.

[@nastube4052]

Don't forget he sees everything that happens from the container and would have inside information.

[@Stormeris]

@@nastube4052 Just keep his soul container in a bag, so he can't see shit. Also, this comment is over a year old.

[@ChristnThms]

Was just thinking of how this would combine with the porcupine build you did with the abjuration wizard. If you possess a beefy meleer, you gain those benefits on top of the porcupine features. If the body you possess is capable of casting additional abjuration spells, even better.

[@Wouldyoukindly4545]

The biggest problem is quantifying what creatures will be avaliable.

[@ChristnThms]

@@Wouldyoukindly4545 I'd expect Magic Jar to mostly be used against opponents. If allies caught wind of you using it against other allies, or even neutral parties, you'd probably find yourself without allies. Still, a bit of creativity could still make body hopping really devastating to a group of enemies.

[@Wouldyoukindly4545]

@@ChristnThms I didn't ever suggest doing it to allies. I was saying you can't evaluate the build outside of a particular game, because you don't know what creatures your DM will make available to you.

[@Wouldyoukindly4545]

@@ChristnThms besides, possessing PCs is 100% useless. The body doesn't keep any abilities from a class. This included hit points and armor proficiency.

[@ChristnThms]

@@Wouldyoukindly4545 first off, the spell is only assumed to target npc creatures. How do we know this? Hit points. When you assume the body of the target, it has to have hit points which are a class feature for PCs. Since you DON'T have access to class features of the target, this plainly means that the spell is treating the target as if it has a standard stat block, rather than a character sheet. But more to the point... the reason that it matters that you'd be targeting enemies rather than allies or neutrals, is that you'd never assume to have a variety of bodies to choose from. That was never an intelligent consideration. You use it to overcome adversaries BECAUSE they're adversaries. The moment you use it to go hunting for "better bodies" you become the BBEG.

[@hadcam4962]

Be an evil spellcaster. Raise infants of the race of your choosing to have the best physical stats possible and have them worship you. Leave them in a secure location near the body you cast the spell from = multiple identities, awesome stats, great roleplay potential as the BBEG.

[@undrhil]

As the BBEG, I would just take over the party's big dumb (and hopefully not very charismatic) fighter and then just play along with what they do until you decide to turn the tables on them.

[@hadcam4962]

@@undrhil you need a good player ready to be your mole for that to really work.

[@TCStall]

just don’t tell the player what check they failed until the moment you spring the evil plot

[@undrhil]

Simple way around the "you die" scenarios - have the Simulacrum use the Magic Jar spell....

[@xthebumpx]

Hmm. Does a Simulacrum have a soul?

[@undrhil]

@@xthebumpx it is a creature that can be a copy of a humanoid or a beast and is partially made of snow. It's also a construct. Nothing in the rules defines what creatures have souls and the spell doesn't say. So, I'd err on the side of fun and say Yes, it does.

[@backcountry164]

By the time you can cast Magic Jar pretty much any "you die" scenario can be pretty easily remedied so long as you've got the body and it's intact. For that reason I certainly wouldn't be dragging it along...

[@nastube4052]

@@backcountry164 In which case, you could just toss the body in a portable hole, or preserve it somehow on a demiplane or something. Then if you happen to die.. the team can just get the body and revive you. You can pay for the diamond.. no skin off their back. :D

[@undrhil]

@@backcountry164 if the Simulacrum is the one using Magic Jar, you don't even have yo worry about carrying the body around because who cares if the Simulacrum dies?

[@robertosilva2678]

Chronurgist Wizard with lucky feat forcing orcus to fail the true polimorph spell is like Doctor Strange vs Dormammu, and I love it

[@Maximum7077]

except that you cant do that with the lucky feat......

[@KevShaw808]

Awesome breakdown of a rather confusing spell. It has the possibility of making some really cool encounters when used by an NPC.

[@DyrgeAfterDark]

Seems like Clone is a neccessary back up to get full use out of this spell.

[@PickYourPoisons]

1 spell level earlier you can simulacrum your party priest to watch over your body and raise you from the dead if need be

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

There's an old *Dragon* magazine adventure where the party goes into this dungeon and one of the chambers is a flesh-lined spiral leading down to a room that has, essentially a magic jar (IIRC psionic-based this time) where a dude will try to take over PCs. Also in the old Judge's Guild *Dark Tower* Adventure there's this wizard in one of the levels who has collected some relatively dimwitted people to keep on hand and magic jar into.

[@MrRDRII]

Have a name or anything we can look up to find this?

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

​@@MrRDRII I had to look it up because I couldn't remember the name or issue at the time or even today, but it was "The Garden of Nefaron" in issue #53 of TD; winner of a dungeon design contest. That issue also has great cover art btw (unrelated to the adventrure).​ Turns out the gem here isn't precisely psionic-based but the theme of its use is. If you're also wondering about Dark Tower it was one of the great old Judge's Guild adventures, ranking up there with Tegal Manor.

[@MrRDRII]

@@Porphyrogenitus1 thank you you’re awesome!

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

@@MrRDRII You're welcome! I hope you have fun with these old-school adventures they have a certain quality distinct from contemporary ones (not necessarily better or worse but a great intrinsic flavor of their own).

[@MrRDRII]

@@Porphyrogenitus1 it’ll be my first old school adventure and sounds like a great one

[@Adurnis]

So excited for this; this spell is about to enter my group’s campaign in a big way!

[@Maximum7077]

16:35 but it doesnt make sense tho . The githyanki is obviously proficient in heavy armor ?!

[@FelineElaj]

Too many "you die" scenarios for my taste. I would risk using that spell only if I had no other choice.

[@roamingthereal4060]

Thats why you get your simulacrum to cast it, you wear the gem as a ring, put simulacrum body in portable hole, capture someone. Now either bury the ring and simulacrum lives in that body (which does heal but also dies to dispel magic), or you remove its original body from portable hole, walk 100 ft, smash ring to auto kill the trapped soul and simulacrum survives. You can also cast the spell yourself, have simulacrum give ring to anyone as gift, repeat attempts until you steal body, then open a demiplane of your undead hordes from inside the castle.. oh wait.. wrong video.

[@FelineElaj]

@@roamingthereal4060 wouldn't putting the body into a Portable Hole remove it to a pocket plane, thus essentially moving it outside the 100 ft range?

[@M0ebius]

Pa Sp But in this case it’s more like a win/win even more scenario.

[@FelineElaj]

@@pasp9866 I agree. DM interpretation is not a bad thing, but when my character casts a spell, I want to have a good idea of what to expect. Otherwise, I would just play a Wild Magic Sorcerer.

[@LordCyler]

For those overly worried about death, wait one more spell level and make a Clone first.

[@nevyns9285]

True polymorph your body into a ring or other item with the gem set into it.

[@QuiescentPilot]

Throughout the video, you talked about always having to keep your body nearby, and ditching the stolen body if it got weakened. However, if you had a Clone spell up, would you even have to worry about that? Couldn't you just leave your body in a Demiplane or something, and get transferred to it if you would die otherwise? In terms of getting killed by a Dispel Magic on your new body, you'd have to be really careful and use Counterspells, but you could totally just play the game as a Githyanki Supreme Leader Wizard without worrying about any negative effects, besides a weakness to Dispel Magic, which technically, most enemies won't even know about! And, if you really wanted to be safe, you could use Contingency to prepare a Teleport/Dimension Door so that when you are targeted by a Dispel Magic, you can leave the spell's range before it is able to affect you.

[@EvelynNdenial]

and could you cast clone on yourself in the new body? meaning when you die you come back still as the gith commander but now without the weakness to dispell.

[@RaggedVentures]

I can't say I agree about the hit points. I think it's a case of Mr. Crawford answering somewhat carelessly in Sage Advice. With good reason; he gets *so many* straightforward questions to which his answer has to amount to, "Have you tried reading the relevant part of the book?" that when he gets the rare puzzler that doesn't have a clear answer in the text, he sometimes answers it just as dismissively. But, supposing for a moment that the body *did* benefit from your Hit Points, the text of the spell says "Your game statistics are replaced by ... the creature, though you retain ... your own class features." The host body isn't *gaining your class features* as if it was a bonus, your own are *replaced, with the exception of the things you retain.* That implies to me that if you take damage to your hit points in the host body and then return to your own, you would not heal that damage. Or worse, if you die by being reduced to zero hit points in the host body and successfully pop back to your OG meatsack, there's no reason to believe you would have more than zero hit points there. One option for a _magic jar_ wizard permanently possessing a target, in regards to lugging around their catatonic body, might be _imprisonment_ by Minimus Containment. That version of the spell *does not shunt the target into a demiplane,* merely reduces them to a height of one inch within a gemstone. It does however say that nothing but light can pass through, which may hamper the return of the soul depending on the sequence of events. The caster can set the freedom condition to be easy and benign--say, "This _imprisonment_ will end if the _magic jar_ component is destroyed, or the host body carrying the _imprisonment_ gem dies." Depending on the DM's interpretation of "nothing else can pass through [the Minimus gemstone], even by means of teleportation or planar travel" it might not be a good idea to end the _magic jar_ voluntarily by returning to your own body from the jar.

[@clenzen9930]

I always thought this might be a way to infiltrate a guarded location. Possess a guard, have them go to the party, bind them, return to container. Repeat. Risky, but it might work well.

[@Reepicheep-1]

Thank you for this, I never could figure out this spell just by reading it a couple of times without studying it.

[@AWeirdIdea]

Hey, i'm sorry i know this is an old video, but i have a question regarding 12:29 section that talks about if HP is a class feature or not, and how you would gain those benefits in addition to the HP of the creature. ASIs and Feats are also class features, and i'm trying to understand how they interact here. Say a player wizard uses Magic Jar on the body of a humanoid with 19 Constitution, and that player wizard had the resilient constitution feat. I'm certain he would keep the proficiency in CON saves, but would the constitution of the creature they magic jar'd into become 20? Or was that increase a one time thing for the previous body, staying at 19 instead? That one interaction has been boggling a friend of mine and me for a while now, we aren't sure.

[@modular_kellogs8023]

I'm trying to use magic jar to be a form of a lich, also you are the only person to make a video on this spell i think, thanks.

[@Randomdudefromtheinternet]

Is there a way to create a failsafe against dying while in a host? (Clone maybe, or I guess just use Revivify)

[@TheShredtastic]

(Apologies if this was asked already): As a divination wizard, could I use a prepared low rolled portent to cause the humanoid im trying to possess fail their charisma saving throw?

[@Nr4747]

Like with any other saving throw being failed due to Portent, the answer is yes.

[@insertphrasehere15]

Funny thing, if they have the Lucky feat, they can reroll, but it still gets replaced by Portent.

[@exotericidymnic3530]

it seems to me that create homunculus is practically a must-have if you take this spell, so that you can always retrieve the jar in case you get trapped somewhere away from humanoids.

[@arcanerecovery2567]

Great video! Very in depth analysis but I have a few questions, or at least one. If you cast true polymorph and change a non-humanoid creature into a humanoid of equivalent cr or level and then magic jar into it and then drop concentration on true polymorph... does your soul stay in the non-humanoid form for the duration?

[@Randomdudefromtheinternet]

I was wondering, how compatible is Magic Jar with the Clone spell? I was thinking that, if you could manage to make a copy of another creature, and said creature is still alive or can't use the cloned body, can you use it as a host? Also, is it possible to use Clone and Revivify/Ressurection to bring someone (or something) that was dead a VERY long time ago (let's say 10 million years); for example, if I found a cave man frozen in an iceberg, could I make a clone out of the preserved body, and once it is mature, kill it and Revivify it?

[@siddharthbianchi9322]

With the body dying it is actually not that different than just your character died in combat, but with an additional chance of living. If another player character died they would just be dead, so that part of magic jar isn’t even a downside at all.

[@acm4bass]

How would the conditions of clone interact with magic jar? If you "die" does your clone activate?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I would assume if your spirit died it would, but not sure

[@WexMajor82]

And what about becoming a lich while possessing someone else's body?

[@RokuroCarisu]

You get to draw two cards! No, wait... That was the Pot of Greed. ;p

[@nyanbrox5418]

nonono, what you do after possessing orcust is cast clone on yourself and wait for it to grow a bit, then when you die you have a new body to return to instead of your old one, so you could just go to the orcust clone instead! then bam, you've become orcust only slight problem is like, unlike with normal possession where you retain your alignment, as soon as you are reborn into this new avatar you may get corrupted into being chaotic evil, at which point the DM will probably just take over your character as you become the new villain in the next campaign cool story though

[@zen_surfer]

if the pcs already won Orcust, which demon-prince next?

[@fishboy3612]

Why not just magic jar poses the clone pseudo die with death ward and then make a new clone next to a clone of your original body so you can respawn and reposes orcas clone.

[@nyanbrox5418]

@@fishboy3612 because my DM would have to allow it xD

[@sixty5202]

A lot of people talk about True Polymorph and turning yourself into a metallic dragon permanently, unfortunately that cuts out your ability to cast spells. Magic Jar lets you get around that. Summon a Simulacrum of yourself, and cast True Polymorph on it to turn it into a Metallic Dragon of your choice (Adult Gold or Ancient Brass are the two top tier choices) Have your Simulacrum use the shape change feature to turn into a Humanoid (Either yourself, or something with high Dex/Con) Finally use Magic Jar to possess your simulacrum, In Humanoid form it is a valid target, and you can have it choose to fail its saving throw. Magic Jar doesn't end if the target is no longer a humanoid, and you keep your own class features, in addition to getting the Dragon's Stats, in both forms. Keeping your mental stats means that you also don't have to deal with the

[@jameshardie7678]

Sixty5 you can not “have it choose to fail it’s saving throw” there’s no rules for that, creatures can’t voluntarily fail saves.

[@sixty5202]

@@jameshardie7678 by RAW sure, but if you tell the simulacra of yourself "let it happen" then narratively it makes sense. Even if your DM does require the failed save, shenannigans involving Simulacra don't happen during adventure time, and you get another try each 24 hours, so it eventually happens. As a DM, if a player wanted to fail a save against something, I'd let them, as would most other DM's I know.

[@jameshardie7678]

Sixty5 oh you can certainly just try repeatedly until it works sure, I’m just correcting you on your idea that creatures are allowed to choose to fail a save - that’s absolutely a homebrew rule. I won’t get into a discussion of whether allowing it makes narrative sense (suffice to say I strongly disagree) because once you’ve started focusing on what you personally think makes narrative sense there’s no longer a stable shared conception to base a discussion around. Best to just stick to discussion of the actual rules, and clearly denote house rules/homebrew as opinions (as you’ve done in the follow up but not the original)

[@IndigoWhiskey]

use a glyph of warding to use clone in the new form and remember to die before hitting any antimagic. glyph of warding to skip custom container feckery. then your possessed stats aught to stick and can no longer be taken from you. well unless you fail a charisma save...

[@LordCyler]

Great NPC BBG spell. I made it a magic item and had the BBG take possession of a party member, then allowed the PC to control the BBG for a few sessions. The party eventually took control of the magic item and it gave them some interesting options in future sessions. Also, I would agree with your interpretation. The soul trapped in the jar can't return to a broken body, so if the possessor dies in the host body, it's body would need to be restored in some way prior to being usable by a soul again. The only thing I question in the video is the Gith being proficient in the armor. I guess RAW you wouldn't get the feature as it is not listed, but I certainly don't see anywhere listed that the Gith Commander is taking Disadvantage on all it's ability checks, saving throws, and attacks. It can also clearly cast spells, which it couldn't do without proficiency in the plate armor. Finally, Found it interesting you wouldn't allow the Archdruid because while it wasn't a Druid it "emulated" one, but I would argue it's pretty clear that the Gith Commander is emulating a Gish Fighter build (it clearly isnt getting those abilities from it's Race) but you dont have issues with that, because - spells.

[@M0ebius]

But you agree with the RAW right?

[@LordCyler]

@@M0ebius Assume you are referring to the Gith stuff, and yes I do. Running it, I wouldn't give it to a player because of RAW. Im just saying it's very clear they are proficient. And considering the lengths Chris goes into determining if being considered a "spellcaster" means one has "class levels", it seemed like the sort of thing he would just intuit.

[@M0ebius]

LordCyler I think it’s just a matter of monster stat blocks being simplified.

[@M0ebius]

SharkForce Thats what I mean by simplified.

[@johnpaullogan1365]

as far as your orcus and deathward scenario it says your soul goes back to your body. then if the body is more than 100 ft you die. so i'd say with deathward you go back to your body and survive regardless of distance

[@TreantmonksTemple]

That makes sense. Hadn't even considered that.

[@nickm9102]

You said not to do it so, I use my reaction to cast little kid logic at 9th lvl. Now I have to make a Div Wizard with Magic Jar. 1.Go find an Ancient Gold Dragon 2. Make sure I have a portent that is low enough to fail the save. 3. Convince the Dragon to enter humanoid form. 4. Cast Magic Jar. 5. Use Portent to force failed save 6. Become Ancient Gold Dragon 7. Realize that the session/campaign is now over and you don't get to use your new form.

[@zen_surfer]

seduce one into sex. magic jar it while u are in the showers

[@KairiMedici]

I came here from the Time Lord video, and have a question that may have been asked below but couldn't find it: You state that if the jar is broken, Orcus' soul would return to his body and you would return to yours. What if the jar is no longer within the 100ft of Orcus but your body is, would Orcus die and we just return to our body?

[@wuggldy]

I'm a little late, but would you be able to slap a creature with Feeblemind before attempting to possess them with Magic Jar and have the effects of Feeblemind end when the possession is complete? Even if not, you could have the Feeblemind effect removed by a friendly cleric, and you've essentially guaranteed that the possession will work. If they succeed on the save by presumably some form of divine intervention, they are still stuck with a 1 in every mental stat and won't have the presence of mind to flee from further possession attempts.

[@insertphrasehere15]

Two words: Portent Dice. Play a Divination Wizard, then you can guarantee that 1: you always make the charisma save, and 2: the enemy always fails theirs. Take Resilient (Charisma), Take Actor Feat, Learn the Clone spell and put one in a demiplane, just in case. Use Nystul's Magic Aura on yourself and on the gem (repeat until permanent) so that the spell can't be noticed with Detect Magic. Go on a body snatching spree. Forget all this nonsense of keeping your old body with you, you have a clone if things go badly.

[@arcanerecovery2567]

Here's a fun thought experiment: If I want to play the game as an Imp, can I? Here's a way to possibly go about it: 1st. Cast true polymorph on the Imp changing it into a Spy (same cr of 1 and can be found at the end of the MM under NPCs). 2nd. Cast magic jar and possess the Imp 3rd. Drop concentration on true polymorph and the Spy changes back into an Imp. 4th Cast Clone on yourself as the Imp and wait until it matures. 5th Move the container further away from you than 100 feet and destroy it killing the Imp's soul, your original body, and your soul will not be able to return to your original body so will have to go into your Clone body... which is the Imp body you cloned. Now you would always be an Imp.

[@wolfyblackknight8321]

maybe I'm not understanding the spell correctly at 7:00 but given its design and intended results I take the explanation of what happens when the body dies and the casters soul returning to the jar the person or being who originally controlled the body before the caster hijacked it for a joy ride, lets say an orc when the orcs body dies I take the explanation as he caster rips the orc out of the soul jar to try and cheat death again with the orc just going on to the afterlife since its body is dead and it has no moral coil to cling to. I figure that's a reasonable thing to have happen provided the jar is within range since they are still stuck in said jar until someone they can control comes by I also figured that the reason the spell doesn't just kill them outride when the caster steals a body is so they can kind of lend aid by taking the controls without needing to kill the intended target incase say the person the caster had to swap with to make use of his/her casting ability was a willing henchman or the like its a lot easier to convince them to let you take the controls if its not deadly or permanent.

[@aassttrraa9566]

I would see it as you keeping your old "mental" racial features and trading your old "physical" racial features with the creature you're possessing. For example you get their proficiency in CON saves but not CHA saves, you gain proficiency in Athletics but not Deception, you don't get their languages but gain their natural armors or Darkvision. It doesn't really make sense to have a Gnome Wizard forget about Magic Items but suddenly learn everything that a commander should know when they possess one. You just possess a body, and don't know anything that you didn't originally know. Basicaaly, if it depends on anything physical like natural armor, speeds or even the Genasi's spells, you trade the ones you had for the ones you gain, and if it depends on your mind, like the Elf's spells, Stone Cunning or proficiency in WIS saves, you retain the ones you had.

[@SigurdBraathen]

15:20: With the examle of possessing Githyanki Supreme commander: I don't think you get HP from both the Commander and your own hit die, but rather the formula becomes your hit dice + the Githyanki's Constritution modifier * your level. Let's say you're a level 11 wizard. HP == 6 + (4*10) + 11 * 4 = 90 HP. Slightly better than most wizards, but not by a lot. (11 or 22 more health than most wizards, I assume)

[@gigglestomp5403]

This spell seems like it would be so cumbersome to use successfully and the risk would be so high. A lot of creatures can just randomly be killed in a round (Probably not orcus) where you wouldn't get a chance to leave the body quick enough. Also, depending on the party to keep up with your body seems almost as scary as having it towed behind you with a floating disk or strapped to an uncontrolled mount like a horse. I feel like if I came across this spell, id be waiting for "The moment" to use it, but I think id be too afraid / filled with too much anxiety about the upkeep / business aspects of it to actually pull the trigger. Managing to somehow pull this off on a creature like a shapechanged dragon could be fun. Or if you managed to have someone polymorph a rakshasa into a humanoid and then magic jar it. The limited magic immunity could be some counterplay to dispel magic.

[@benry007]

Does the dispel have to be on the jar or on the creature to end the spell? It seems like a pretty big weakness.

[@zen_surfer]

does encasing the jar in a lead box stop a dispel magic? if anything the target is not visible.

[@muddlewait8844]

What happens if you cast Imprisonment/minimus containment on your comatose body while you’re possessing someone else and your body is holding the jar, assuming the save fails?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

What happens is I get a headache!

[@smaugswrath3144]

Also helps with 3.5, with some tweaks. Very cool!

[@MonkMan693]

Another great video. Question: How do you keep your original body alive? You can bring it along, but how are you feeding it? Can it chew? Swallow? Bonus question (hard): Can you think of any way I can add Magic Jar to my "spells known" on a Sorcerer (or at least use it)?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

1: definitely not chew. I don't know enough about catatonic states regarding swallowing. Seems like that would be more reflexive. 2: Buy you DM snacks and tell them someone as clever as they are will allow your sorcerer a spell that they wouldn't be able to access any other way.

[@MonkMan693]

@@TreantmonksTemple I was afraid of that. I think sorcerers would have the best use of this spell. I still think keeping your body alive is going to be problematic, so I don't know how you have stay in your gem or humanoid shell for weeks.

[@SystemLordNemo]

@@MonkMan693 Sorcerers can have wish spell and it can replicate the magic jar. So high level game is needed. For lower levels I'm not sure but something that might be called "the ring of spell storing" and wizard in your party might get you limited castings of the spell.

[@MonkMan693]

@@SystemLordNemo I think Ring of Spell Storing only works for spells up to 5th level, and MJ is 6th.

[@zen_surfer]

@@MonkMan693 unless said ring of spell storing is THE magic jar (of another necromancer

[@SystemLordNemo]

It seems that this spell won't protect your body against lack of food, water or generally aging. It however can save some one in some desperate situations when they are dying. There are also some maybe morally uncertain applications like possessing an infant before it develops a personality of its own. This could be kind of locally approved semi immortality perhaps in some cultures or organizations. Also I wonder if this could transfer a soul to non sentient humanoid war forged or even golem?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

It's a little subjective. I mean technically the spell doesn't protect your body from a lack of breathing either, or a lack of blood circulation. If it's assumed you don't need those, then your body would not require the fuel of food/water or even age normally...DM is going to have to decide how that works

[@ChristnThms]

I read and reread the description, looking for that too. I think most DMs would use that lack of specifics as a leash on you- he could make you return to your body periodically, to feed it and take a dump.

[@archmagemc3561]

This is why your a warforged wizard. They don't worry about any of that.

[@Redacted_Ruler]

This spell has far too many risks to use normally, however it combines very well with a casting of the clone spell while your using magic jar.

[@inkyfingers317]

What if you used clone, then cast magic jar, would that allow your body to die while you waited to possess someone, then if they died your spirit would simply go to your clone?

[@UnbornHeretic]

It says when the spell ends, the container is destroyed. Therefore it is still there. Can mending fix it?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Mending fixes a single break or tear. I'm thinking the container gets shattered.

[@nickm9102]

Is there a possible use of Contingency that would add to the fun?

[@ldl1477]

Contingency Counterspell if you are targeted by a Dispel Magic?

[@nickm9102]

@@ldl1477 I don't know about that, Counterspell is a reaction and if I recall correctly it has to be an action cast and only targets you. So this won't work.

[@roscoeivan8739]

I think the hit dice works like AC calculations from multi-classing. Pick one source not combine them. you could take the creatures hit points Or your class feature not both. I also think that by a strict definition of "assume." you the player are assuming the form even if your body is still unchanged. There is also the "valid target" argument for many of those situations.( i.e the gold dragon or orcus) the target would be valid so long as it stays in humanoid form but once changes the target would no longer be valid and the spell would end. Even so great vid. keep up the good work.

[@richardmontecalvoiii3224]

What is the hp equation for possessing a fellow PC? and how do we track damage between the body?

[@tpete096]

Amazing video, I can't wait to try this spell out...

[@spencernoble6824]

My 13th level Wizard used it to steal the body of Arkhan the Cruel. It was amazing. My hit points tripled, I gained innate spellcasting, and since Multiattack is not a class feature, I retained it. With Tenser's Transformation, I was unstoppable.

[@GamerCorin]

I have a question - how would this interact with True Polymorph done on your vacant body? As in, after you've successfully possessed another creature could you then use True Polymorph on your own body to turn it into something your familiar could carry or wear? If you turn your body into an item, can you return to it? What if you turn it into a tiny humanoid? (If that's plausible w/in RAW, your familiar could be wearing whatever has the soul in it while your body is somehow tied to/riding it.)

[@phoenix_viridis]

I think that if you want to keep your original body in working order then you have a time limit on how long you can leave your body since the spell does not preserve it while your soul is away. Your body still needs to eat and drink and breathe though you can assume that the requirement is reduced since it is catatonic. Also, your body is defenseless while you are in possession of another body. Something as small as a poisonous spider that drops down on the body when no one is looking could be your demise. I see this as a good ambush spell though. Have it set up somewhere in a place that you can hide your body securely like under the floor of a house. Let your familiar or other mention guard over your body. I wonder if you could combine this spell with tiny hut. Your soul probably would not be able to penetrate the dome of force but in theory your body is within a hundred feet still so maybe you could wait it out. If nothing else a glyph of warding with dispel magic could be set up in advance using the trigger of magic jar ending as the trigger to dispel tiny hut and allow for your. I guess the next question is if tiny hut would end if your soul left the hut. From my understanding, it should remain so long as your body stays inside the hut but I'd talk to the DM before hand to clear that up.

[@kekero540]

Using magic jar alongside clone to take over the body of a powerful warrior. One time my DM let one of the players cast revivify and used magic jar to take over the body of the group fighter. Mainly because the fighter wanted to play a new character anyways.

[@studynot757]

This is a spell that needs a backup Clone before you start using it! Also - the section you quoted from the MM says “Spellcasting Class feature” as part of the text. I would say the a creature with a “class feature” that says “18th level soellcaster” would equate to class levels. At least to me.

[@jameshardie7678]

Excellent video as usual. Since you didn’t mention it during the video, I’m curious what your opinion is on the interaction between Magic Jar and Find (Greater) Steed? If I’m a bard with both, when I cast magic jar, since the spell only targets myself I should be able to extend it to my steed too right? So both our souls are now in the jar and either or both of us can slip out and possess someone. The steed soul could even just flow into your body to pilot it around and keep it safe while you are “out” - making sure it eats and drinks, etc.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

You are the initial target, but the spell does target others later. Basically, it doesn't work the same reason cone of cold doesn't.

[@kholtsclaw5266]

I believe your ruling on the Archdruid is a misunderstanding by labeling it a spell caster it can be assumed the archdruid has those spells as part of a class feature, as the druid classes hit die is a D8. It can be assumed that the archdruid is a prestige class or a subclass with prerequisites.

[@nickm9102]

Thinking up some wierd stuff. What are your thoughts on using Clone to make a clone, posess the clone and keep your body cared for. That way you have all your physical abilities when you need them and can posess as needed. On an unrelated note now I wast to true Polymorph a Terrasque and use Magic Jar to possess it and drop the Polymorph.

[@adamwillis1024]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but how would demiplane interact with your body being required to be within 100ft?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

That may vary based on DM. I have to think a lot of DM's are going to consider another plane of existence over 100' away.

[@adamwillis1024]

@@TreantmonksTemple I see what you're saying, but what about spells or abilities that let you see into other planes for example? They're not far away, just inaccessible to most people.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@adamwillis1024 I agree. When you cast Etherealness you don't actually move though you are in a different plane of existence. I'm just saying you better check with the DM before assuming they see it that way.

[@JaxWylds]

Noob question: If a creature is shapechanged to a humanoid form (e.g. demon/Orcus to human), are they sent back to the Abyss using the Banishment spell? If that's the case, then my intuition would say they are still a demon and would not qualify for Magic Jar. In other words, Magic Jar is all about the (humanoid) soul, not the form of the body. What am I missing in my logic?

[@masterd4964]

What if you kill your body, cast clone (as orcus so the clone would be an orcus clone) and then you death ward? Then you would for sure be perma orcus. That would also make your chances of magic jarring an ancient gold dragon more possible than ever.

[@gabrieldoncatto3074]

you probably could use wish to create a magic jar during combat, although im not sure it would be so useful at level 17

[@joshuajetton2388]

I watched one thing where they polymorphed a dragon into a commoner then possessed it with magic jar, then undid polymorph. As a dm for my families table I would think this would work as well. I'd love to hear others thoughts on this though. (I am heavily simplifying this as well. The other spells needed required an army of spellcasters.) Also would cloning the target and killing the original not be a way to cheat magic jar as well as long as you don't die?

[@joshuajetton2388]

Sorry I didn't let the video finish.

[@mateusdmt5505]

To my understanding the possesion gives you control of the posessed creature body. While an ArchDruid does not have class levels I dont think you would be able cast their spells since they are tied to their own devotion to nature or by their faith itself. Doing so would imply decoherence with other elementar charateristics of the game. By that what I mean is that abilities inherited by the possessor would be ultimatily defined by the inate factor of whatever monster abilities which are not necessarily phisical such as the Giths psionics (those under the "inate spellcasting" and not "spellcasting" descriptors as some might have both). Same wouldn't apply to Legendary actions which should never be inherited.

[@CaffinatedCoffee]

I'm really surprised you didn't touch on how the clone spell can interact with Magic Jar.

[@Lastofthesigilites]

Are there any humanoids beasts? I was looking around and bugbears seem to fit

[@master_rafiki]

Sign up for Patreon! Your content is just too good. More!

[@DStrormer]

So I was discussing this on another forum and I'm curious what you might think. Can you True Polymorph the container to become a creature in its own right? The container isn't magical in and of itself, and the soul trapped inside isn't wearing or carrying the container, so I'm thinking you could in fact Polymorph the container to become a minion following along behind you with your victim's soul trapped inside. Take it a step further, if we assume you can then is it still the container for the purposes of Magic Jar while Polymorphed? If so, can you return to it and possess another creature? Can you possess the creature that the container now is?

[@Battleguild]

Now...is the living souless body considered a creature or an object? The spell Sequester requires a willing creature. (A great way to preserve the body, if legal.) While your soul is disembodied, could you be considered willing from inside a gem?

[@martinbowyer7906]

I wonder about the interaction of magic jar and clone. Say you MJ possess a Githyanki S. Commander, then cast clone on yourself in that body and allow it to mature. when you doe would you come back as the Githyanki?

[@squallshot]

What happens if a simulacrum casts the spell?

[@bryce4724]

plan on doing this as a necromancer after i construct an iron golem

[@abelcain4726]

Sage advice said creatures have the proficiencies of the armor they’re wearing even though it’s not specifically listed (also page 9 of mm)

[@claytoncardoso4538]

The target of spell it is the jar, not the possessed body. So dispel magic targeting you body don't ends the possession. But any effect that removes possession (aka clerics) turns into a double save-or-die if you are far from the jar and your body (hint: use Sequester - 7th on your body). Be careful, cast Clone too and don't befriend clerics!

[@Meto_50]

How would this spell work when cast via wish? Since you don't need material components for wish, would the spell create a container?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Not sure, but that's how I would run it.

[@kevindotson4567]

forgive the ignorance of this question, but, could a magic user possess the body of a green slime?

[@TimothyHemp]

Woooo this the spell I'm most looking forward to on my wiz!

[@acm4bass]

A catatonic state is unresponsive essentially, only maintaing responses like a gag reflex or some rudimentary pain reflexive response defined as stupor. The spell doesn't explain how your catatonic body is fed, watered and how it eliminates. I would consider the body to start failing relatively quickly. As a dm I might represent this by having the body sustain a level of exhaustion per day, giving the spell an effective duration.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Technically, if your body dies, it doesn't end the spell, but then you REALLY don't want to get hit with a dispel magic!

[@nevyns9285]

That's where true polymorph comes in. In the Recluse Saga, there were "wizards" that extended their lives by moving body to body, destroying the soul of the original person.

[@erloke]

Finally a use for the Sequester spell

[@nevyns9285]

@@erloke completely forgot about the suspended animation portion of that spell

[@acm4bass]

@@nevyns9285 Interesting, if you true polymorphed your body into something that would be capable of casting spells and subsisting without consciousness, you body would avoid the logic issues of the spell.

[@SuperDre1990]

Can you use wish to make it permanent?

[@luiswi]

Depends on your dm

[@undrhil]

Just Wish to be Orcus...

[@acm4bass]

Wish in 5e is reduced significantly from prior editions. Now it mimics any 8th level spell but disregards spell component and othe spell requirements like casting time, or if you do go big you have a 30%chance to lose the spell from your book and self forever. And you would be putting th e dm in the drivers seat to determine effect. Efreeti shenaigans apply.

[@undrhil]

@@acm4bass so what you're saying is ... there's a chance....

[@Almighty_Mage]

@@acm4bass Wish is for simulacrums to cast

[@gxbmb]

can u carry the body in say a portable hole? with some way to create air?... say put some plants and a light source in said portable hole?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Maybe? It's extra dimensional so I don't know if that counts as within 100 feet.

[@anonym3]

Well, about the casters: they are noted to be an 18th level spellcaster and thats why I would not consider them to be a good target

[@Wouldyoukindly4545]

Soooo. If I shapechange into a dragon, I not only get the Dragon's hp, but I then add all my hit dice (with the Dragon's con mod) to this number? That is insane.

[@sesimie]

What an intriguing item! Since I'm still new at D&D i tend to discover items while playing. hopefully i make my saving throws from now on inspecting gemstones and crystals!!

[@M0ebius]

It’s not an item exactly. It’s a spell.

[@sesimie]

@@M0ebius I was semi RPing....My characters tend to pick up shinies!!

[@zen_surfer]

can u cast another magic jar while inside someone else's body?

[@Spiceodog]

What if all the demon lords are actually billion year old wizards who magic jar’s them, but nobody knows the other is actually another wizard so they’re just being cruel and sadistic to keep up the charade, not knowing everyone else is in on the joke

[@nastube4052]

Once you possess something, could you cast imprisonment (sleep) on your catatonic body (which would automatically fail, I assume) with the condition that it be freed from imprisonment if the soul is returned to it. This would allow you to make your body immortal (although still vulnerable), while you also immortally continue to possess new bodies. In this way your body won't eventually die on you from old age.

[@nastube4052]

Also, if you used "minimus containment" it says the target shrinks to 1 inch and is imprisoned inside the gem. It says that nothing but light can pass into the gem even by teleportation. When you return to the host body on magic jar, you are not teleporting, you just do it, if it is within 100 feet. Would you then pop out of the gem as the imprisonment breaks or would the gem block the soul? What if the condition is that the soul is TRYING to return to the host body outside the gem. Which would then end the imprisonment and let the soul in. This would be quite handy as you would only need to carry two gems around, one with your body, and your "magic jar", without having to tote around a catatonic host.

[@nastube4052]

Also also.. the scribes wizard's capstone feature would allow you to use a reaction to prevent death, and then you could safely return to the jar before making that dreaded Charisma save...

[@Scotch20]

Just use a a clone spell and be done with it.

[@nastube4052]

@@Scotch20 well damn, that's a good idea. But you if you use imprisonment you could get back up in your own body in the same fight rather than appearing in a clone..

[@RavenWolfStarcraft2]

Wow Thanks Jeremy for that answer on class features. Don't add the words, "yes, so this works in this way..." So perfectly clear! It's kinda moot anyway though, going from a Wizard low low HP to a Kobold's 5HP, just the shear increase in tankiness makes this spell one of the best in the game. Really though, this spell is far too nuanced. I don't think I'd take it just because it seems generally not very useful, and when it is, it really is but requires a lot of potential set up. And it just reeks of if the DM doesn't nerf or play into it, it's either too much or nothing. That end was just amazing though, really good and funny.

[@imbetterthanyoubyfar]

I'm probably a bit late to the party here, and the rules-as-balanced probably vote "no" unanimously here, but- 1. What if we were to fool the magic into believing a creature was a humanoid by use of Nystul's Magic Aura? Obviously, we'd need to possess a form with arms so that they can cast somatic components, and we probably want something small to large so that they don't have too much trouble getting around with the party (medium being best for mobility and spellcasting reasons), but who's to say we can't take over pitfiends and archons without polymporph shenanigans? 2. Are physical feats and ASIs considered as class features? Obviously, those from the Variant Human wouldn't count, but what if your wizard picked up Tough at 4th level for whatever reason? These obviously won't be pushing any stats past 20, but it would be interesting to see how some of these could push various BSF-y builds into more viability. Questions aside, there are a few oversights here about how you could cast Magic Jar more effectively - 1. If your party kidnaps a high-level NPC or five, you could easily have them restrained and get several attempts over several days to possess them. Suddenly, a monster with a Charisma saving throw proficiency is actually particularly *good,* because that improves your own charisma saves as well. 2. There's nothing particularly bad with dying as the new creature with magic jar. You're dying just as if you'd died in your original body, but this one's a lot tankier. That said, there are some exploits to minimise the impact of dying there, even less so than with your normal body - 2a. You could easily have your original body Revivified back home. Perhaps you have connections with a cult of dubious morality, or the adoration of an understanding cleric who doesn't mind your Magic Jar shenanigans, or maybe you've multiclassed and gotten access to Revivify somehow. Then, you could occasionally go back and cast Contingency or Glyph of Warding to cast Revivify on your body whenever it dies. At the very least, you could have Gentle Repose cast as a contingency/glyph, which gives you plenty of time to come back to life relatively cheaply. 2b. Your death probably means your party's in a lot of trouble, especially if you were playing a god wizard. Perhaps this is a good time to get back to them, all freshened up and ready for battle. If you're allowing materials from adventure books, then Galder's Speedy Courier could be a fun way of shipping back your dead and very valuable body back to the aforementioned temple or safehouse, followed perhaps by another Gentle Repose to keep it safe for when you next want to take it for a drive. If LLK isn't allowed, well, I'm sure someone can come up with a better solution than I have. You should always bring along something from the area you're adventuring in, which would allow you to use Teleport to the area with your associated object, re-entering the fight fairly quickly. (Edit: You could always dismiss your Familiar from Find Familiar to have it bring a bit of dirt)

[@N-cromancer]

I like to imagine Caramon carrying Raistlin's inert bodies around in a magic Jar scenario EDIT: OMG the githyanki innate weakness to magic jar explains Vlaakith's reign a lil bit more dont it? I bet you that cursed crown or whatever is her phylactery, she just possesses any gith powerful enough to take it from her and wear it.

[@royjaskowski905]

Hmmm You create a simulacrum (A). The simulacrum (A) immediately casts magic jar (A) and leaves a body (A). You cast simulacrum (B) and simulacrum (A) body disappears ceases to exist, it was illusion based after all. Is Magic Jar (A) still up and running, just no body to go back to? Without no existing body (not even a dead or transfigured one) to go back to, in destroying a distant jar might soul (A) do nothing (stay in possessed body) and make a case for perma posession?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I would imagine if you create a new simulacrum, the old one (including the soul) would cease to exist which I think would end the magic jar.

[@patrickcoleman8018]

So random question. If I am a Old One Warlock, could I use my telepathy while within the jar?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Because the GOO telepathy does not require an action, I think you could. If you have telepathy that requires an action (like ghostwise halfling) you would not be able to because "the only action you can take is..." limitation.

[@blshouse]

@@TreantmonksTemple The Ghostwise Halfling ability does not require an action either and should likewise work. The abilities are identical.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@blshouse You're right, I wonder what I was thinking of?

[@jashua2776]

can magic jar work with clone?

[@applecrow8]

You've angered the wizard. Roll Initiative. The wizard wins. They cast 'Protection from Rules as Intended'. Your turn. I immediately surrender.

[@Mr2Syderguy]

Awesome video, I think that in my campaign, if a player got to the level of this spell I would allow them to use it and it would be more of a direct body swap. keep your mental stats get the physical stats. I would use the base race. this is a great spell for a villain though.

[@leodouskyron5671]

This video is almost most view. Though yeah The best use for it is to give an unwindable situation to a party or villain. It is the ultimate kidnapping.