Trekyards EP217 - USS Kelvin (Part 2)

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very totally wonderfully cool as per part 1 and very nicely well informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on the U.S.S. KELVIN and on the very major differences of realism between the JJ Universe compared to the actual TOS Universe, And you are truly correct on registration numbers that there are no 0's before any of the numbers after 99 as in NCC-100 and on up period!; A very fabulously nicely well done job by you indeed Sir's!👌.

[@Turnip1981]

Mentioning when the timeline diverged is what I've always thought that that timeline originally diverged was Star Trek First Contact. When Cochrane got a look at the E he leaped ahead in his understanding of warp field theory letting them build bigger sooner. Thus, the NX-01 is bigger than the Daedalus was supposed to be.

[@creepyrobot23-50]

Nothing makes my day better than a new episode of trek yards! Especially when it's about one of my favorite ships!

[@thribs]

You can't be serious. This ship? :)

[@creepyrobot23-50]

Robert Hayes I like the design and an it's in the best scene in ST 2009

[@thribs]

I agree it's a good scene but it's a very ugly ship. In my Eaglemoss collection, it's at the back.

[@creepyrobot23-50]

Robert Hayes Well we all have our own opinions I guess.

[@TheCastellan]

well, it's better than the other stuff JJ spewed out.

[@isfj1009]

Hmmm. So.....JJ-Verse Enterprise-E will be the size of the Whale Probe!!

[@thribs]

and the J the size of Spaceball One.

[@Persian-Immortal]

JJ should be sent to Borg space... but he would definitely be unworthy for assimilation...

[@markplott4820]

Mega Maid Transform............Suck....Suck....Suck........LOL.

[@CaptRobertApril]

It should be noted that "The Making of Star Trek", and possibly the Writer's Guide, stipulate that the Enterprise was the largest spaceship ever launched by Earth. I refer back to my previous statement about folks making Star Trek who don't know squat about Star Trek.

[@CaptRobertApril]

"... largest spaceship ever launched by EARTH."

[@joebwfc21]

I'm so happy I found this channel, great job guys

[@Ken19700]

The TOS Enterprise isn't too small. The CVN 65 Enterprise was roughly the same length, much narrower, and carried a crew of 3,200 stationed to the ship and another 2,480 when the air wing was on board. That's with 85 aircraft and two rather large hangar bays under the flight deck.

[@chriscone1117]

Ken MacMillan Totally!! Have to disagree with with the Capt. Only reason TOS/TMP era ships seem "small" now is because of the ludicrous upsizing later. Yes, 5,000 people on an aircraft carrier! I recall A. Probert saying he intended the Galaxy class to crew thousands, but Roddenberry couldn't afford the extras to depict it. Even with 1,000 or so crew on a Kelvin or Galaxy it would be cavernous. You'd probably see another crew in the hallways once a week.

[@Ken19700]

I'd like to see what a qualified draftsman, someone who lays out the interior of modern ships could do with the inside of the TOS era Enterprise. I just assume that the in universe reasons for such a small crew involves automation, the size of the equipment, and some rather large storage tanks that in 50 years of Star Trek no one ever mentions but must be there. Propulsion alone requires three types of fuel, all of which would need several storage locations and transfer systems. Then there's a base source of matter for the replicators too. Depending on fuel efficiency of course, these ships should probably be 25% gas tank.

[@chriscone1117]

Yes! Lawrence Kraus in his "Physics of Star Trek" book addresses some of the real energy needs the Enterprise would require in order to do what it's depicted doing, numbers written in scientific notation that none of our regular adjectives like "huge" or "massive" do any justice to, but se la vie. I like some of the work-arounds. Whenever you need some magic done, create a new kind of "coil." I like Michael Okuda's response to the book with respect to the impulse drive. He ret-con'd the drive so that it variably submerges part of the ship's mass into subspace so the fusion exhaust actually has much less work to do.

[@JimMcCray]

Isn't the secondary hull upside down in addition to its being on the (aesthetically) wrong side of the dish? This observation is based on how the hangar in the aft is built out.

[@willpatterson2986]

the Kelvin is a unique design, maybe a test design by Starfleet for a colony transport ship. it is possible the timeline first changed when Enterprise E went back in time, may-be small unnoticeable changes which includes the renaming of the first warp five ship which is why the Enterprise D never had a model of the first warp five ship. wonderful job explaining the differences in size and comparing them to their 24th century counterparts keep up the great work! thanks again

[@MrStehooper]

Jesus.... How big was that dock on Yorktown base? That scalling is unreal!

[@JeffAM1986]

To clear up the issue with the hull number starting with zero. I am actually pretty surprised you two didn’t know this but yes, in contemporary naval terms a ship can have a hull number starting with zero, it happened/happens all the time. Also, others get this wrong more than you two but a ships hull number doesn’t have to be consecutive in the least, nor does it represent a total amount of ships in a respective fleet. In naval terms you could have 5 ships hull numbers: 1701, 01987, 530798, 1702 and 1705. While the ships may have been designed, launched and fitted out consecutively the hull numbers do not have to follow an actual number order. Thanks guys for all your excellent work.

[@MrSheckstr]

At 18:30 where you have the NX, baby kelvin, BIG kelvin, Connie, excel, then the E and are struggling with the size of the Kelvin and calling it both a scout and a colony vessels and I have a possible solution. Perhaps the hull of Big Kelvin could be the same hull as baby Kelvin with the added mass of curved edge wedge shaped modules attached to the outer perimeter of the primary hull. When the colony vessels reaches its goal those modules detach and are set down where ever the colony is to be established. Perhaps the aft portion of the dorsal section also detaches to be a small orbiting station leaving a smaller sized Kelvin type vessel that could more realistically be considered a primary craft in Starfleet a generation prior to the TOS era and or a secondary craft IN the TOS era.

[@red2001ss]

My guess is the Eaglemoss scale of 315m is based on the original size of the 2009 Enterprise of 366m. Seems to make sense to me.

[@thanasisgeronimos9124]

Trekyards can you imagine the JJ Enterprise D universe ??? omg

[@Ken19700]

The reason these ships are so large is so Abrams can have epic running scenes through the ship. It's ridiculously huge and it can take off and land on planets. He has destroyed Star Trek.

[@driftbandit4740]

Ken MacMillan, u are so wrong. So, closed minded.

[@dredg0r]

I watched it recently, I'm pretty sure you see the two levels used for housing shuttles in the movie as the Cpt. disembarks heading to the Narada. Just wanna say I love the channel! jolly good effort chaps. Once I become re-employed I shall donate to your cause. Keep up the good work!

[@InventorZahran]

This is the United Earth Starship USS Payphone, registry number NX-08, standing by for action!

[@Hapokas112]

Nice.

[@Mnogojazyk]

To quote something that Spock said to Scotty in "The Changeling" about Nomad's size [as a ship]: "Intelligence does not necessarily require bulk, Mr. Scott." In the debate about size vs. technology, it would be something like "Technology does not necessarily require bulk." As we have experienced with technology at least since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, technology usually reduces size while simultaneously increasing capacity, capability, efficiency, and efficacy.

[@thribs]

When the Narada came through, the Enterprise and Constitution were already being built. I still don't see how a destruction of one ship would have delayed the whole Conny line by 20 years.

[@thribs]

Mark Grant They must have been in development by then. It takes time to make a ship.

[@memphis7742]

The USS Kelvin is not the only ship from the JJ-verse with with a NCC-0xxx. There is the USS Biddeford from Star Trek: Into Darkness, with a registry of NCC-0718. Biddeford is a Newton-style starship. On the Kelvin, she was launched in 2225 - this is from the dedication plaque, seen in the latest version of the Star Trek Encyclopedia.

[@Theottselmaster]

JJ Borg ships.... the sphere will be the size of the death star!

[@donaldhartmiller6123]

morning gents-Ensign Donald Hartmiller here, trying to voice my opinion of the U.S.S. Kelvin. Here's what I've got to say, the Kelvin is bigger than the GRISSOM and it's much wider. The Kelvin is from the rebooted Star Trek movie directed by J.J. Abrams. I don't know all the stats, but this picture shows scale and size reference to other Star Trek ships and U.S. naval craft and spacecraft. Any comments good or bad, I'll take and accept.

[@nicholasdickens2801]

Ah love the second part thank you gentlemen :)

[@freagarthach4228]

It's kinda funny how they are desperately trying to justify Abrams's screw up. Look, there is a theorem: if you add 1 kilo of shit to 100 kilo of ice cream, you'll get 101 kilo of shit, and no matter what you do, you cannot make it back into ice cream. Don't even try.

[@miles2378]

Freagarthach because we are not giving up on star trek because a jackass was given the keys! If you don't want to hear a bunch of Star trek nurds talk about inconsistencies don't watch you tube channels devoted discussing star trek because we are a bunch of nurds!

[@thribs]

The stardates are also different in the JJVerse. There it's just the year. I don't see how the Narada changed that.

[@MrStehooper]

Probably the year JJ's goldfish dies. It's only canon, it doesn't matter.

[@TheCastellan]

or Delta Vega's location, or why Khan's a white guy now, or why the Klingons look like people at a fetish convention, or why Scotty has a goblin sidekick...

[@thribs]

TheCastellan The Khan one is actually explained in the comic. He had a face change.

[@barryward93]

could the registration number indicate where the ship was built?? so if the ship was built near Earth it would have a 4 digit number beginning with 1.

[@TransbianOwl]

This kinda works into how I deal with the registries, don't think of them as a single number but rather as a code that when broken down would reveal: Where it was built, who built it, when it was built, and the date it entered service... or whatever information they want.

[@Jack_Stafford]

I still think that registry numbers beginning with zero are nonsensical. Adding a zero before the Kelvin's doesn't change the actual number that relates to the chronological building designation of the ship in its series. Like the Constitution being 1700 and so forth . There's a reason it's not numbered 01700 because that's a nonsensical number. You can add any amount of zeros before it but, "because math" it doesn't change the value of the number. Just like the calendar year you would never say it's 02017 or say the vandals sacked Rome in the year 0455 AD. It's just illogical. I would make an exception for two digit registry numbers for experimental ships like the NX - 01 because they knew there would be at least 99 ships in the new Starfleet. But as we know by the time of Voyager there were five numbers in registry designations so there be no reason to waste paint if your registry number is 514; to add any number of zeros before it; would be like Enterprise being designated NX-00001 since registry numbers eventually made it to five digits. Rather than an in-universe excuse sometimes better just to say that things like this are merely errors... and give people credit for making good points when they're made. Like the scale of the JJ Enterprise. It's very simple; one can go by the windows and also when they showed workers building it,regardless of how large the interior sets appear. Just chalk it up to that's the way they made the movie. Trying to justify the impossible discrepancy between the two scales results in windows being 20 feet square or larger! The two can't be justified and artificially oversizing the Enterprise to account for the interior sets contradicts the window proportions on the model. It's better just to think of them like Mini Coopers, that they are amazingly space efficient and are much "larger on the inside than they appear to be on the outside"! As supporting evidence regarding registry numbers since starships are registered in a similar way to Navy ships you will find none begin with the number zero because once again, math, a zero at the beginning of a number is a null value before a "natural" numeral all the way to Infinity. You can put a hundred zeros before the number one but the value of it is still just one. They are numbered in a series for each class, just like the ships in Starfleet with exception of course for numbers that are retired like 1701 with a letter designation appended to distinguish one from another. But no ship's number begins with 0. So best to just admit these are errors in sometimes things just can't be justified like the Kelvins warp nacelle lighting up when George Kirk pushed the impulse engines to full. Just say that was a mistake and then move on to the things that we CAN discover and explain instead of obsessing on errors made by those movie creators who are less knowledgeable and don't study Trecknology to the degree that we do. Cheers; I appreciate the detailed look at the ships, especially the 3D models and in depth discussion of design!

[@MrSheckstr]

You guy seem to be struggling with trying to find a way to fit both the hull number AND the scale of the kelvin into canonical Trek Lore.... Let's face it either they unintentionally screwed up or just decided to ignore it to fit their needs in making the film. When you consider that the hull marking is actually the birthday of someone's papa it's show how little the were interested in keeping faith with trek lore. Let's face this is two examples where THEY got it wrong and we shouldn't be required to rewrite the laws of the universe to cover those mistakes up.

[@davidhernandez9985]

The Nebula Class is so d ooope.

[@jhicksobu19892011]

So if these movies are tied into the rest of the franchise, then the divergent point must have occurred before 2009. The only thing I can think of is First Contact when the Borg attack. That act of time travel and the subsequent battle, even though it took place in secret still would have caused ripples in the time line which would lead to these massive discrepencies.

[@TheCirclingMowass]

Thinking of using this fine ship for a Prime Timeline Star Trek Adventures rpg campaign. I don't care if it's overtly big on the inside, could have just been the engineering of the era. More room for larger components, more shuttlecraft, etc. NX was cramped, so maybe they had a period of literally raising the roof. 800 crew could also have been to beef up forces if things go wrong. Either way, working it out. I really love this ship, and am glad you guys reviewed it. Why is it so big? Might be based on how they designed the tech at the time, or it was to grant spae for modifying the interior at times...or no reason given at all.

[@togoboldly]

You could explain the size and style of the Kelvin as being seen in the movie after the timeline changed. The black hole the Narada came through was already active as the camera pans across the Kelvin.

[@mgummy91]

You two should read the current JJverse comics from IDW. They are considered to be canon for these new films. They explain clearly that this is an entirely different universe. Not a different timeline, a different universe.

[@homelessend8557]

Marc Gummerson which issue is it?

[@mgummy91]

During Star Trek: Khan there were several differences in the Eugenics Wars of the Kelvin Universe and the Prime Universe. If it were separate timelines caused by Nero's temporal incursion, then these changes wouldn't exist prior to the destruction of the Kelvin.

[@driftbandit4740]

Marc Gummerson, unfortunately there are alot of people would say that the comics are not cannon, which of course we both know that they are so WRONG.

[@nickryan4126]

The creators of the comics and movies say the comics are canon but CBS and Paramount only officially classify live action tv shows and movies as canon and it's up to them.

[@OpenMawProductions]

Whatever wobbly "canon" status the comics may have had because of the Bad Robots writers having input into them was ironically destroyed when both the Star Trek PC game and Star Trek Into Darkness contradicted the comics. Kirk claims in STID that he hadn't lost any crew up to that point. The comics show him losing a number of crew members.

[@jacobvaughn9276]

I get the feel of a colony/science vessel, used to help settle planets, and find new ones to settle...

[@donaldhill3823]

Registry numbers for build order works because every ship from shuttle on up to the large Star Ship are all apparently on the same registry list meaning number does not indicate total fleet size of capital ships. Instead it indicates number of space ships of all types ever built for Star Fleet which is not the same thing since ships get destroyed, lost, decommission and scrapped over time. This also works to explain large gaps between registry numbers of the same class because shuttles can be built at a higher rate. Out of order numbers could be contributed to not only the Shuttle builds but to delays in construction allowing ships to be commissioned out of order. They could try to make the numbers identify not only the ship build order but the yard it was built at and maybe even the class. The first 1 could indicate type and the 7 could indicate the yard for instance and the digits after could indicate the number of the ships built of that class in that Ship yard. This could explain you might see 4 digit numbered ships next 5 to 7 digit numbered ships. This would be the easiest way to explain the Registry numbers appearing to be out of order and fits with the NX numbers which would built by a research and development yard and only get a standard number after being refitted at a production yard. They never try to explain it that I am aware of so commission order ends up being the best explanation and high number makes sense when you look at a Federation that includes hundreds of planets over 200-300 years and the need for a large fleet to protect its self.

[@darrenholcomb2104]

It makes sense if the Grissom is a movie era - specifically Excelsior era, cuz thats when we first see it - refit of a much older hull from the Kelvin era. Just as Enterprise TOS to TMP had 2 significantly different hull appearences, relating to different levels in technology development, while having the same hull registry number.

[@enterprise-h312]

0:49 Well, according to “Star Trek: Discovery” that is exactly the case. 1:47 Why can’t the Oberth-class be designed by a Vulcan? There are other styles of ships. 2:01 The Hermes-class (USS Hermes) starts at NCC-585, the Saladin-class starts at NCC-500. 15:00 Far be it for me to argue against relatively compact ships, but the Enterprise-J is pretty big. Come to think of it, just how big would the JJ-J be? The size of a Super Star Destroyer? 16:48 Fail. 17:39 Longer distance? Would you mind explaining your line of reasoning there? Wouldn’t a ship with the mission profile of exploration need to go longer distances than a colony ship?

[@thribs]

The J will be the size of Spaceball One.

[@zeeppo_the_clown]

Yay Trekyards Wow!

[@benjima100]

could the registry numbers be like modern day pin codes, like something you would put into the computer as a search term and it would come up with the corresponding ship number?

[@TheCastellan]

21:40.....NO BREWERY! :)

[@vondan6320]

In the real world military registry and series numbers don't always make sense, they can be based on the military contract number, the design team/person designation, company designation or an end added designation to form the illusion of a series I always assume variant contract numbers means various manufactures, design teams and star fleet programs

[@samueljohnson7649]

can you do a video showing the difference between the NX-01 and NX-02?

[@gojirabeaver9105]

In Star Trek beyond they mentioned possible the excelsior so will it be the size of a Borg cube then

[@garbagefreak]

What if the reason the nacelle is so big is because Starfleet briefly experimented with including the impulse engines in the nacelle? Warp coils in the front and impulse in the back? That would explain why the aft of the nacelle appeared to generate thrust in Star Trek 2009. I can't think of any reason why the two couldn't be included in the same structure, but I'm no expert on Trek tech.

[@garbagefreak]

Furthermore, maybe that's what Admiral Marcus meant when he referred to the Vengeance's "aft nacelle" in STID (as a sort of colloquialism for the impulse engine). Maybe that design philosophy actually carried forward into the JJ Enterprise and the Vengeance.

[@OpenMawProductions]

The Kelvin has a visible impulse engine along the aft of the saucer rim though. More than likely the reason the Kelvin has such a big engine is because the interior has paired warp coils instead of just a single set. It also has a big saucer to get into warp, so it probably needs the gerth and length to generate a big enough field.

[@Deth1977]

I am remembering something from a previous trekyards episodes about the TMP Enterprise and how there was supposed to be visible plasma effects going between the 2 nacelles. if they had used that effect and we were to discover that they have 2 sets of warp coils in the single nacelle then the glow in the back of the nacelle plus the plasma exhaust out the back would make sense. it is not that the exhaust is propelling the ship the warp field is propelling the ship there just happens to be visible plasma exhaust coming out of the back. similar to the exhaust pipe of a car. it doesn't accelerate the car it simply is a way to remove exhaust from the engine to keep the engine from locking up. and the reason it may have lit up when the captain rammed the Nerada is that he was engaging a warp field in order to lower the relative mass of the ship in order to maximize acceleration given the short distance his ship was from the Nerada.

[@robduell3856]

Kelvin is from first contact time line. When star fleet got borg tech and upscaled their stuff. Then they get the scans of neros ship.

[@Ken19700]

Given its size, if the Kelvin is a colonizing ship it should have a complement of 10,000, with maybe 25% of that being crew permanently stationed on board.

[@TheCastellan]

5:06.....well, the Dauntless was an 01, and no one seemed to say anything. I don't mind a zero in a 4 or more digit number....it be like maybe they just had a random number makers for the ship making :D

[@mattmon6118]

So exciting. A new episode! Thank you both for the work you do :) P.S. I gave a possible explanation on the part 1 video about timeline stuff being the way it is. Hopefully you've seen it. If you have time I'd like to know what you think. :) If not, keep on being amazing

[@davidedward10]

Speaking of registry numbers, I still subscribe to each ship is assigned a number when ordered, thus registry is the hull number, and they are Not built in that order. Close enough to give a rough time of build, but no where near exact. As for the size discrepancy, JJ Abrams..........'Nuff Said!😝

[@timothypage252]

Think of the sheer amount of supplies they would need to carry, PRE-Replicator.

[@OpenMawProductions]

There's nothing small about an aircraft carrier. Replication technology exists. They already have protein resequencers aboard the NX-01 in the 2150s. The Enterprise of a hundred years later would definitely have the early version of replicators called "food processors."

[@watcherzero5256]

If you think trying to make sense of Star Trek registry numbers is hard, try and understand British Rolling Stock class numbers. They divide them into hundreds by type and then they sort of placed them within that 100 range according to relative power and following on from sister classes but then they would also assign a randomly out of sequence number.

[@drakkonusfrostburn4038]

I have seen a few sites the measure the JJ starships. They normally use the view screen/window on the bridge or a shuttle, since humans stand next to them. Those sites tend to conclude that the ships are not possibly as big as the "official" size charts. Funnily the JJ starships seem to be in line with the TOS or Refit Constitution class, not the Galaxy as these charts suggest. I would love to see an episode where Trekyards measure all the JJ starships and trys to figure what size the modelers/artist intended the starships to be.

[@derekrankin7842]

What if a ship or class is retired, would the registry number therefore be available again.

[@nickryan4126]

Not that l agree with the Kelvin' s size but how exactly does being bigger than a Connie break canon? We only ever saw one class of ship in TOS

[@TheCastellan]

A ship that big would be some sort of deep space explorer. You want something roomy if away for a long time.

[@tmikesecrist3]

one thing I do wish they did in star track would give that pre-fix. is Give the N some kind of meaning (maybe indicating navy or Starfleet) …. but going more like the navy.... A CC would be a command Curser, a destroyer would be DD, frigate would be a ff... so you could have an Enterprise ncc-1701, you could have the John Paul jones a friget with NFF-1701. ect

[@thribs]

Maybe in the JJVerse, the Enterprise is also a Light Cruiser.

[@Ken19700]

The reason there's a zero in front of the 514 is because of real world marketing. The Enterprise has four digits so everything gets four digits.

[@MrYTGuy1]

I really don't think we saw the prime timeline at all except through old Spock's memories. We never saw a tos kelvin, we didn't see the timeline shift. We experienced the events from the perspective of just that universe. Changes in a timeline can ripple backwards as well. That ripple means the universes likely diverged much earlier than when Nero actually showed up. Chaos theory would indicate that by the time we get to Nero the universe could have diverged by quite a big margin and be very different. That accounts for all the differences in timelines as far as I'm concerned.

[@naysaynever]

Trek Yards wow!! kinda got a ring to it, do it :)

[@saintwildfirerecords]

First the Kelvin bridge didn't look scaled to enterprise d, and also I could very much ascribe to the idea that Kelvin was a colony ship. Would explain the families in that timeframe

[@citamcicak]

Scaling is a pretty hard to do right in sci-fi in general. 289m of prime timeline constitution class fells small for its complement of people - and that's not the issue of technology compactness, but the living and work-spaces requirements for such a mass of people. On the other side, similarly lengthy USS Enterprise CV-6 (length 251m) had complement of 2217 people, and its successor USS Enterprise CVN-65 (length 342m) has maximum capacity of 5828 people. Admittedly the connie had private quarters, while the carriers had (both decommissioned, with CVN-65's steel being planned to be recycled into USS Enterprise CVN-80) had relatively crammed personal space.

[@emiliogreenwood8190]

Hey how many cargo ships and pass your ship Star Trek have

[@keirfarnum6811]

I actually think the larger size of ships in the Abramsverse make sense. Our technology back then wouldn’t have been advanced enough to be able to make powerful ships that were smaller. As technology advanced, they would probably be able to make more powerful ships in smaller sizes, until it became necessary to make larger ships again that were even more powerful. I have always felt TOS era ships to be too small; they hardly larger that an aircraft carrier of today. That being said, the Kelvin should be slightly smaller; say 1/3 smaller.

[@Hapokas112]

Nice.

[@Kaziklu]

Is the TOS enterprise that small though? I mean the Secondary hull is what 125-140m long and 8 stories high. I mean it is a large Office Building. My Office is two 10 Story towers that are about the size of secondary hull(just square). There are a few thousand people working there. It isn't super long but when you add 11 more decks in something as large as the Saucer a crew of 280 is about the right size. (it is actually kinda big really) The Arleigh Burke which is a modern ship that has a compliment of 223 is only 155m long. To put it in London Ontario scaling. Go to the corner of Queen and Clarence there are two building there. 200 Queen and one about the same height across the street. Those two building are about the size maybe a little smaller, than the secondary hull of the original Enterprise. Then add a saucer with a 120m Diameter that is 3 story's high at it's widest point and the Neck that is another 7 stories. The Saucer is about the size (actually about 30m wider but that tells you just how big) as a circular cut out inside the park land around St Paul's Cathedral which is basically beside 200 Queen. And about the size of the Church without the Tower.. That is a really big ship. It isn't small but has a crew just a little more than that of a US Navy Destroyer and about the same as the older RCN Iroquois class Destroyers just much much bigger. 280 people in a ship that is 155m long and 15m wide (at it's widest) The Original Enterprise is really very large.

[@NakkiNyan]

Light cruiser and heavy cruiser in military terms does not relate to ship size, light just means light weight for speed so less armor and smaller caliber armament. Kelvin may have needed a bigger crew to make things work, by the 1701 it is refined to the point where you can run with a smaller crew and easier ship to mass produce since it is smaller. It also explains why it needed so damn many people just to run the bridge.

[@markplott4820]

I'm warming up to the Kelvin, but it needs to be a Scout class vessel, I can also see a Colony/Transport vessel of the same Size. even in the TOS era ships in Scout class were armed with Phasers but rarely torpedoes. as a Scout class vessel it easily fits in with the Cage Connie and the TOS Connie.

[@Gravage]

I have the Eaglemoss versions of the Kelvin and the JJ Prise. If those are even remotely to scale, then it seems that Eaglemoss is agreeing with the original scale, not the magazine printed 350m. That being said, I know Eaglemoss doesn't really bother with scale on their models. But it seems odd that both of these models are gigantic compared to previous ones.

[@HENNAZT3RMIN8]

I heard the larger scale on the JJ ships is due to a licencing issue where Eaglemoss can only release JJ ships as Specials

[@socialAbomb]

ok here is a theory. the jj movies is not an alternate timeline. it is an alternate universe or dimension. like a mirror universe. then also seeing the scale next to a carrier, to be honest the jj scale seems more exact. the prime seems small.

[@90lancaster]

Giant size inspired by shell of a First Federation ship they supposedly found in this era or by the size of the Xindi Aquatic Cruiser.. There would be still some giant ships about in the Galaxy at this time - the Hirogen have a few as do the Vorn - I don't recall how long it was since the Kazon pinched their fleet off someone else but even if it was after that the original owners would still be about. I did hear some other say more like 325 Metres for the Kelvin based on other scale issues. And yes I agree with Stuart I prefer Narada timeline as the name too. I don't feel the need to copy Kelvin timeline just because Simon Peg said it once and Eaglemoss ran with it.

[@miles2378]

90 Lancaster Kirk and crew had several runnins with time travel so the Narada changing the future would cause those events to happen differently.

[@ShadowStarNX-00]

Here is a good way to explain ship registry numbers that works The registry fits the name Only not when the ship was actually made example the Enterprise constitution class and the Enterprise Galaxy class were not both the 1701 ship built all the Enterprises were not built at the same time I'm but they are all 1701 Ships registry name should always match in situations where it doesn't the theory could be that the registry was required to change a sister ship by the same name had been recovered and put back into Active Service Example a Excelsior class by the name of Saint Ann goes missing a new ship is built Galaxy class and is named the Saint ann Then the original one is recovered when put back into Active Service one of the two ships has its number altered so as to prevent identification errors

[@JosephWiess]

I sort of figured that the Kelvin was an exploratory cruiser, medium or large.

[@OpenMawProductions]

Thing about the Kelvin escape scene... You don't need shuttles. Have the Kelvin do that thing that all Star Trek ships do in a crisis... Launch escape pods. The scene would work just as well if we saw Kelvin launching escape pods. Have a few people evac on three or four shuttles and everyone else evac on pods. There was no reason to blow the ship up to eight times the size it should be.

[@OpenMawProductions]

Also *nothing* about the idea of it being a colony ship makes sense either. I can see it being a DEEP DEEP DEEP space cruiser like what the Galaxy Class was intended to be early on before the creative direction changed. Because the Kelvin is a lot like the Galaxy in that regard. It's big, it has a lot of room, a big crew, obviously it has families of some kind because Winona is preggers on board (By the way, where's there older son during that point?) IF you wanted to colonize a planet, why wouldn't you just send some smaller ships to do the job? Send a couple dedicated Conestoga class ships with a small escort. The Conestoga ships get broken down to build the settlement and the other ships go off to patrol the area. Bam. Makes WAY more sense than building this ridiculously big ship that does not fit the historical continuity of Star Trek, even if we're buying into the notion that Enterprise/First Contact are a different chain of events.

[@OpenMawProductions]

The TOS Connie is the size of an aircraft carrier, which arries THOUSANDS of people. The original Enterprise is not small.

[@OpenMawProductions]

Also, if we were to go with the colony ship idea... Why the HELL was the Kelvin anywhere near the Klingons? Like, listen to the radio dialogue at the beginning... They're within SNEEZING DISTANCE of the Klingon fleet.

[@OpenMawProductions]

The problem with that shuttle cutaway is it deliberately undersizes the shuttles. The JJ shuttles are HUGE by comparison to the TOS shuttles. They're big. They are wider, they are longer, they are taller. In every way they are bigger. You're not fitting 24 shuttles in that drive sections and keeping the ship at a reasonable size.

[@jocax188723]

So is Samuel saying 'Orbeth' a Trekyards running gag now?

[@seanbrown207]

I buy the 315m with bulkier and less-refined technology and then Starfleet miniaturizing as technology becomes better, advanced, and more efficient. Modern analogues: as mentioned, brick cell phones of the 1980s -> far smaller non-smart phones of the late-90s/early-00s (with early/primitive web browsing). Mainframe computers of the early-20th century (that took whole rooms) that could only do basic computational calculation and were slower than later computers and used vacuum tubes -> desktops starting in the 1980s that had far faster CPUs and used advanced transistor circuitry. Enterprise-type aircraft carrier nuclear engine (A2W reactor) -> smaller and far more powerful and efficient Gerald R Ford class nuclear reactor (A1B reactor). I don't buy the crew complement numbers I've heard (800-something). I think that's just a case of the JJ team thinking bigger is better as opposed to the more realistic and real-world Enterprise scale (a lot of scientific and real-world engineering considerations went into the TOS designs). After all, the Original Series Enterprise is the size of an aircraft carrier and has 300 years more advanced technology than the 1960s, which seems commensurate.

[@Uzzy66]

Where is the Beeta Quadrant?

[@moinaknath7519]

Consider that the Vulcans made a 600 m long ship in the 22nd century. The Vulcans are Federation members so why couldn't the Federation make a 655 m ship 100 years later?

[@davidhernandez9985]

Even just a little the Kelvin is better to look @.

[@shinjofox]

I really don't see it as being part of the prime universe. I have long maintained that the split off point occurs during the Enterprise tv show. Possibly during the Time War possibly earlier.

[@NaD-o2p]

What if the scale for the Kelvin is all over the place in the film because they are events being told from the perspective of different survivors? Not everyone will know the exact dimensions of the ship because let's face it not everyone will... I now that can be a bit far-fetched but it is a possibility. The reason there are so many shuttles is because in the heat of the moment those observing from the shuttles thought they saw more than what were actually there and as for the nacelle generating thrust I have two theories: my first theory is that they simply stuck an experimental impulse engine at the back of the nacelle and my second theory is that it doesn't generate thrust, again those who observed the events just thought they saw it do that as they got confused by the flashes of weapon fire and explosions and whatnot... Again far-fetched but eh I'm trying XD I do like that fan cut out also... So I'm sticking with that :D

[@Kainlarsen]

Abrams hated Star Trek. That's why he couldn't be arsed to do it properly.

[@gremice31]

Love the show. Please can you adjust you mic gains so we can't hear your breathing through your nose!

[@mysticvirgo9318]

Back to the idea of engineering being in the nacelle,, There is nothing in cannon that says the bussard HAS to be directly adjacent to the warp coils. all Bussard is meant to do is collect deuterium n such. doesn't feed directly into the nacelles.. so I suppose, with that line of logic, that one could place an engineering section between the bussard and the coils

[@Pooptydoopoop]

I want to say it's a science vessel because why else would you need so many shuttles besides doing all those science experiments going back and forth grabbing things to test or what ever and I thought the official size is only about 1300ft. for something around there

[@andrew72329]

I’m glad the ships are bigger in the JJ universe. I don’t get what your major problem is with it

[@i2aiden]

huge hole in your colony ship theory is kirk was supposed to be born on earth in iowa lol not some colony on an alien world

[@thribs]

Riverside Iowa to be precise. They have a plaque and everything.

[@i2aiden]

i could swear the guys mentioned that it could have been a colony ship multiple times ti justify its size and colony ships are usually one way trip ships that can land on the planets surface when they get to the site they selected they use the ship to help build. and yeah i assumed she went into early labor like you mentioned

[@buster8277]

If you scale from the bridge.... there is no way it can be bigger then Enterprise E. The original Enterprise (TOS) has a bigger bigger bridge, and the hanger bay is HUGE!!!

[@hallmonitor1]

Registry numbers are just that; registry numbers. Think in terms of the real world U.S. Navy. Ships are given a number, not based on their build, but simply for paperwork purposes.

[@deathdragonsoul]

I think the reason the time line changed is because of everything in enterprise TV show as yes they save the federation in the show but they was in war when they shouldn't of be. like think what time Line should be if Q don't introduced tng enterprise to the borg and the federation dint have the time to prepare. so the time line always messed up what you guys think

[@stevenbaumann8692]

JJ Abrams has a bad habit of taking cannon and hitting it with a train. There's a zero in front of the 5 because Abrams is insane.

[@hisokamorow1816]

Why is everyone hating on jj. U know he probs didn't choose the scale on the jjprise of the USs Kelvin. It probably would be the designer of the ship. So blame the stupid scaling on the designer not jj abrams

[@MrRandomcommentguy]

Anything in JJ Trek can get away with not having to "fit" - the whole alternate timeline thing was just to placate the fans and I think it was a mistake to introduce the concept.

[@donaldhill3823]

The Grissom we see could also be a refit explaining why it looks radically more futuristic then the Kelvin. Having the 0 in front of the 514 is most likely a JJ mistake. Real ship numbers never start with 0. TOS ship sizes make sense to me based on Space ships we have now pushing forward a couple hundred years. TNG always seemed too big but JJ pushed it off the scale of logical. I can not even imagine what JJ would do with TNG ships. Again JJ works better for me a reboot not a parallel time line. I loved the JJ movies my self but the ship sizes internally and externally do bug me. ---- I will add that your analogy for Tech getting smaller does not work well with Capital Ships. Yes your phone is getting smaller but Air Craft Carriers for instance are getting bigger. Ship size is very much and going to be dictated by its mission and crew requirements as well as the equipment (including Engines) it needs to support the crew and mission.

[@helrod]

But the JJ ships needed to be that big ... how else could they have fit in those giant warehouses and beer factories ito the starships ? After all we must remember the starfleet creed .."To go brewing where no one has brewed before"

[@derekrankin7842]

I am sorry guys but you have 60's blinkers on, You cannot replicate the original styling of the original show and expect anyone born after the 80's to accept the design. It would not work, JJ Abrams had to make hard choices on the styling and grand scheme of things I think he made the right ones. Having to choose between a glowing deflector and the original dish deflector is a no brainer. If you went back and gave gene rodenberry the ability to show ships like this or the original models he would go for this no doubt. He was constrained by time, money and technological limitations, Abrams was not.

[@tonys623]

It wasn't about the styling you idiot, it was about the size. It proves that JJ and company have no idea what the fuck they are doing. They tried to turn Star Trek into a fantasy film when the franchise is supposed to portray science and technology accurately. This is what separates Star Wars from Star Trek.

[@MrYTGuy1]

No one can tell what gene would want except him... I could just as easily say. "If you go back in time and ask him then he'll tell you I'm right about whatever I say". You don't get to decide what he would want. Quit pretending your personal preference is somehow more correct than any other, then try to puppet a legendary dead man to back you up. Pretty illogical.

[@techstepman]

light cruiser is a cruiser with light weapons...not light as in weight.

[@ariesrcn]

They (the production company) screwed up the size scale by a lot. Of Kirks period (either timeline) would NEVER have been that big. They tried to make the inside larger to look cool, that is the only reason and even then they screwed up the scale.

[@joeyrutherford6316]

I hate to use a timey-wimey time travel explanation, but could it be possible that the entrance of the Narada and Jellyfish caused reverberations both forward and backward in time? This might explain why everything looks so different in the JJverse. I don't think we've ever seen evidence of this in Star Trek, but it might be a possible explanation. That being said, I'm not a fan of the JJverse movies, and I believe that all the problems of those movies are going to spill over into Discovery. From the terrible and canon-shattering ship design to the need to dumb-down Trek for "general audiences."