Trekyards EP265 - USS Excelsior/Enterprise B Comparison (Part 1)

[@CaptainM792]

The excelsior class is my favourite starfleet ship. Next to the sovereign and constitution class refit.

[@soljafon]

I feel like a sovereign is like all the best parts of voyager and excelsior

[@CaptainM792]

Sol's Fusion network Do you think the Excelsior is named after the Hong Kong Excelsior Hotel?

[@mattmon6118]

I think they are both fine ships, although I prefer the Excelsior to the Enterprise B. The extra bulk on the B feels out of place for me or. . . Too much without need. But I don't dislike it (they're both cool).

[@johndifrancisco3642]

Matt Mon, I was thinking the exact opposite! I like them both but I feel the Excelsior is more TNG and Enterprise B holds truer to the time period.

[@derekscanlan4641]

Matt - couldn't have said it better. in this case - less is more

[@JohnnyZenith]

I prefer the Enterprise B.

[@1willubhave]

I prefer the Enterprise A...takes a licking, keeps on ticking...

[@starsiegeplayer]

They did not replace the neck on the filming model when changing it for "Generations." The added impulse engines are problematic for me: they vent back into the warp drives.

[@SoremRasmussen]

That's what I disliiked about the added impulse drives as well. I also felt like the lower hull addition was intended to help create a bridge between the Ent-A and Ent-D. It always felt like an homage to the D secondary hull...

[@Morality124]

To be fair, John Eaves originally intended those to be part of the Transwarp technology, not impulse engines.

[@paulwalsh2344]

@ starsiegeplayer "The added impulse engines are problematic for me: they vent back into the warp drives." Good point. Never noticed that before.

[@-dvmakesdo1780]

that's because they are suppose to be shuttle bays lol, just another miscommunication making its way into canon.

[@daniellyon5011]

@@-dvmakesdo1780 Shuttlebays that require pilots to make immediate turns to avoid the Bussard collectors?

[@FastlaneComputers]

there's a in canon explanation for the shrunken torpedo tubes.... they won't be installed until Tuesday

[@paulallas7665]

Love the 1701B still my fav Enterprise today.

[@JEMHull-gf9el]

I've always loved those crazy long nacelles on the excelsior line of ships....So elegant.

[@gallendugall8913]

I like the weird balcony jutting out on the lower hull on the B. It makes zero sense, but it blends in very well.

[@gallendugall8913]

If they had moved the torp tubes down there it would make sense, or maybe if they put a skating rink in there.

[@edwardclarke7771]

Excelsior class and its refit are two of my favorite ship designs.

[@paulcontos5965]

I love the Excelsior and Enterprise B! so excited for this episode

[@frenchjr25]

The Enterprise B wouldn't be a refit since it was a brand new ship. It is just an upgrade in design of the Excelsior. You can only refit an existing ship.

[@maverickf14tomcat13]

Technically it is a refit. Just like the Enterprise in the motion picture was a refit of the Constitution class in the Star Trek tv series. So is the Enterprise B a refit of the Excelsior NX-2000. Both brand new ships in the making.

[@frenchjr25]

​@@maverickf14tomcat13 To be a refit the Enterprise B would have to be a modernization of an already existing ship, like both Enterprise's in the first 6 movies. Since it is a brand new ship and based that is based on an already existing design it is considered a variant.

[@maverickf14tomcat13]

@@frenchjr25 I just explain that. The Enterprise in the motion picture was based off the Constitution class of the TV series. Same concept with the Enterprise B which is based off the original Excelsior class. Moreover all the Enterprises refits throughout the movies were brand new ships being built based off its previous predecessor all the way to the original from the TV series. RECAP: -TOS ENTERPRISE CONSTITUTION CLASS -TMP REFIT OF THE CONSTITUTION (NEW) -STII SAME NO CHANGE -STIII NO REFIT DESTROYED -STIV REFIT (NEW) RECEIVED THE "A" -STV BASED OFF THE REFIT IN STIV -STVI SAME NO CHANGE DECOMMISSIONED -STIII The U.S.S. Excelsior NX-2000 (NEW PROTOTYPE) -STVII ENTERPRISE-B (REFIT NEW) EXCELSIOR CLASS Ps. The Enterprise finally received the letter "A" at the end of the film Star Trek IV The Voyage Home. All previous Enterprises never had a letter. BTW This is not my opinion or perspective it is fact. Based on all the information given on memory alpha Star Trek starships. Simply look it up.

[@frenchjr25]

@@maverickf14tomcat13 You are confusing the physical models with the fictional ships. And you are confusing definitions. The physical Enterprise B was a refit of the Excelsior model - the existing model was modified. But the fictional ship is a brand new ship and, because it is an updated design, a variant of the Excelsior class design. For the movies the fictional Enterprise seen in the first 3 movies is a remodeling (i.e. refit/modernization) of the ship seen in the TV series. The 2nd ship's history is not mentioned on screen and thus could be either a refit of an existing ship or brand new ship and thus a variant of the original Constitution class design. At the same time this is also Star Trek. Many times variants are given their own class - such as the Miranda and Soyuz are the same basic design yet are different classes. To be clear, a refit is a remodeling of an already physically existing object. A variant is a brand new object based on an update design of an already existing object. Learn definitions.

[@maverickf14tomcat13]

@@frenchjr25 For the record the constitutional class Enterprise is the second and the Enterprise B is the 3rd. Now that you know that can you name the 1st Enterprise?!

[@WillPittenger]

There is a book, "The Captain's Daughter" where the two ships face off.

[@mikestoast]

From TNG/DS9 we can see that the B is a one-off design, the rest of the Excelsior fleet never got the upgrades even 100+ years after. The Excelsior class is IMO one of the best designs, the most practical 'this would work' ships. It has the bulk yet the sleekness. I do like the neck reduction of the B, and would like to see that applied to the Excelsior.

[@JohnnyZenith]

I prefer the B.

[@ZYONCOMICS]

Enterprise B looks like the prelude to the D with that secondary hull. I also like the Ex very much.

[@paulwalsh2344]

... and I think that was the whole point... simply to fill in a "missing link". Not a bad design, but not really inspired. It took a while back in the 80's for the "D" to grow on me too, though. It was too curvy for my tastes and the glowing red "Bussard Collectors" seemed a backward step to me, even though it became the defining feature of starfleet design going forward.

[@xheralt]

That was part of the intent of the design. Except of course, there is the Ent-C between them that resembles nothing more than an upsized Connie. Due respect to Mr. Probert, but frankly I'm glad his intended Ambassador-class design didn't go through, although in retrospect, his more elliptical secondary hull would be a better transition from Ent-B to Ent-D, whereas the canonical Ent-C is a better transition from Excelsior to Ent-D. It's a case of, who knew what which designs looked like and when, in the production pipeline.

[@ZYONCOMICS]

@@xheralt I kind of feel the same way about the intended Ambassador-class design as well. I also would like the designers to think more on what era of time their designs would fit also. I do not like the Romulan bird of prey in Enterprise, they fit more in the TNG era.

[@CertifiablyIngame]

Still my favorite ship.

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very totally very cool and very nicely greatly wonderfully well done and very nicely informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on the Excelsior and the Enterprise-B Conparisons, And I myself favor the refit version of the Class of Ship a whole alot better Indeed, And I myself also own both of the Eaglemoss models as well as having both of the model kits as well, Any ways a job very nicely fabulously well done indeed Sir's!👌.

[@AwesomeSauceShow]

What is the in Canon explanation that there is no transwarp in TNG? As they had a working prototype in the Excelsior? Or did it became the regular warp just faster as the warp scales changed?

[@thribs]

The tech simply didn't work. Instead they just rescaled the warp system.

[@power543]

AwesomeSauce we did an episode on transwarp..please Google trekyards and transwarp and you can learn all about it

[@eXcommunicate1979]

My headcanon is basically as how you describe AwesomeSauce. "Transwarp" of the Excelsior simply became the new warp scale, which was a significant improvement to power efficiencies and speeds. Older ships, like the Constitutions, simply couldn't be refitted with the new tech, so were phased out. The "transwarp conduits" we see later really have nothing to do with standard warp. They're more like artificial wormholes, or "subspace tunneling." There's nothing really said in onscreen canon to say that the Excelsior testbed was a failure.

[@mynkir-sol2150]

Excelsior failed to engage Transwarp because Scotty stole parts that were essentially the Transwarp Drives' sparkplugs (explained in movie/onscreen). The Retcon is that Transwarp didn't quite work as hoped/intended, but did prove superior to the older warp drives, hence the new scale. But not super enough for a new name. Also, from the description of Transwarp that I recall, it capitalized on Interphase, and used a 'balanced interphase' to further cheat the laws of physics for ridiculous velocities. Real-World reason why they could not let it work 100% the way they wanted, besides more improbable techno-babble, is it would now be a 'smaller galaxy' in terms of how quickly a Transwarp ship could get from A to B, which is terrible for writers who need the ship isolated/on its own w/o any hope for backup. And wormholes would be obsolete...

[@paulwalsh2344]

According to the TNG Officer's Manual, warp speed was the speed of light cubed so that the speed of warp 10 would be 1000 times the speed of light. Transwarp used a transporter system to transport a warp field ahead of the vessel in order to boost warp speed up 50% (top transwarp speed was warp 14). The Enterprise "D" was the first ship of the line to use Ultrawarp which is the speed of light to the power of 5 so that a speed of warp 10 would be 100,000 times the speed of light, which became the de facto standard warp of that time. The TNG Officer's Manual was licensed by Paramount, but published by FASA. The cannonicity of this book is suspect though. It makes a few predictions, that turn out correct, but lets face facts, if a ship of the TNG era could go 100,000 times the speed of light, then within a year and a half it could traverse the width of the Milky Way galaxy making the premise of Voyager completely moot (if they envisioned ultrawarp as as the power of 4, that would have been much closer and realistic).

[@JasePow68]

I think I like them both equally. The B fixes some nagging issues with the NCC-2000, but introduces some others (placement of secondary impulse engines, too much business going on with the secondary hull additions around the deflector)... At smaller scales, the B looks better, while at larger scales the NCC-2000 looks better,...

[@ptaylor5014]

I agree with you on this, they both look their best in different scales

[@Real_McKinley]

I lie to think that the Enterprise B was an Excelsior Class Variant - the biggest and best of the fleet was the Excelsior Class, but the Enterprise was meant for a long-term deep space 5 year mission, so they added into the Excelsior design more sensors, storage, impulse engines, and basically anything to ensure she could perform in deep space.

[@eXcommunicate1979]

Realistically, there should be at least a dozen variations of the Excelsior, given its multi-decade production run. I wish we could see more.

[@NathanM125MB]

when I look at the secondary haul on the Enterprise B with the boat shape it kinda looks like the Saucer section to the Original USS Enterprise.

[@briandavion]

point of order your "upgrades" are what refits useally are. "refits" ala the TMP Enterprise are more accurately called a rebuild, and they're honestly rare (because it's useally cheaper to build a new ship)

[@MarkGill42]

Great video chaps! My favourite ship class, though I must admit I've always been the other way round to Stuart in that I prefer the traditional version (I won't say original as the transwarp prototype NX-2000 differs slightly from the NCC-2000 version) to the Enterprise-B variant. However, your analysis has given me a new appreciation for the B, especially your observations about the different neck. Nice to learn something new about a ship I thought I knew extremely well. :-) Looking forward to part 2!

[@enolastraight577]

3:50... what is the purpose of the big blue gaping hole at the rear of the keel?

[@michaelbudlong1738]

they should have made the old impulse engines a shuttle bay on the Enterprise B does not need 4 engines in saucer

[@tkon04]

Exactly! And spacious shuttle bays they would be and a precursor/predecessor to the Enterprise-D and E.

[@nukedathlonman]

Well, given that the warp nacelles don't actually propel the ship, since the Enterprise B has standard warp engine, perhaps it does need the additional impulse engines to achieve the desired warp performance (esp since the ship was designed for the failed transwarp drive). But visually speaking - no, it certainly doesn't need the additional engines. Wonder why the original impulse engine space wasn't reclaimed...Oh, to achieve it's targeted warp performance (at least, I'll keep telling myself that - LOL).

[@CaptRobertApril]

Originally, they WERE shuttle bays, but the effects department didn't get the memo and lit 'em up like impulse engines. A careful study of the big Okudagram on the bridge, however, identifies them as hangar bays.

[@armymatt83]

Reggie Reginato "Well, given that the warp nacelles don't actually propel the ship, " ah yes they do but they don't generate thrust like the impulse drive they generate the warp field which propels the ship at warp by distorting space around the ship. the impulse engines have nothing to do with warp performance.

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

To me, the B hull extensions only look good from a few angles. I get that they were there to be damaged. I really didn't like the nacelle caps on the B, but I find the teal detailing quite a nice touch. It's not really a refit or an upgrade. It's a sub class. The interconnecting dorsal wasn't actually different on the B. That part of the model didn't change in the film.

[@Starleet106]

both ships look great and add their own uniqueness to the times. being a huge fan of both the Excelsior class NX/NCC-2000 and Enterpise-B refit designs, both starship introduced us to a new era of Starship design in ST-3 The Search for Spock and ST Generations.

[@PatriciaCross]

It stands out to me that because Generations came out after TNG was over, it left the future design of the Excelsior class looking like its original design (roughly.) I can see the removal of the extra impulse engines once better ones were designed, and the nacelles would of course get swapped; but it is odd that it lost the upgrade to the secondary hull. I wonder if we are supposed to treat Generations as a visual reboot and assume all the Excelsior class ships in TNG actually looked like the Enterprise B. The Excelsior (both versions) has always been one of my favorite Starfleet ships.

[@jayaldridge9520]

I love the Excelsior and Enterprise B

[@decebal01US]

I always liked the design of the Excelsior, feels like a good upgrade from the Constitution Class ships.

[@GordonMassie]

Its like comparing a Ford Sierra to a Ford Sierra Cosworth, they both have the same body panels but you add a whale tail change the alloys give it a chunkier bumper and you turn a simple family box into a really cool car. Yeah I prefer the Enterprise B. ;p

[@JohnnyZenith]

What a brilliant analogy.

[@Jack_Stafford]

Bravo! These top-notch assets are one of the things that makes Trekyards so unique. And just as much the precise comparison of the two ships and alternating views back and forth so we can compare while you're discussing the differing details shows you really understand your fanbase! The Excelsior being my favourite ship, you can imagine I am over the moon with this two-parter using models that are as close to Cannon as possible! What I wouldn't give to get my hands on the files of the original Excelsior! Very good job and I love the upbeat discussion despite not being Captain Foley's favourite ship I believe it he was and knowledgeable fair and I really enjoyed Commander Cockings' renderings, choice of angles and enthusiasm for the episode!

[@thomaswashington5888]

I LOVE BOTH SHIPS!

[@xanderguldie]

At 16:00: it almost looks like saucer seperation. Even though I like the design I never understood the neck piece.

[@enterprise-h312]

To B or not to B, that is the question. What do you think of this theory, the Enterprise-B had that attachment after it was decided to make an Excelsior-class the next Enterprise and flagship of the Federation. So they needed something to differentiate it from the rest of the fleet and modified the existing ship (as seen in TNG on the wall with all of the Enterprises) after receiving criticism from the press that it “lacked effort” and “an insult to the name Enterprise to just give it to some Excelsior”.

[@RaydeusMX]

I choose 2B.

[@johndifrancisco3642]

I choose no bloody A, B, C or D!

[@foxpianocovers]

John Di Francisco I choose E

[@johndifrancisco3642]

Fox Piano, E is VERY cool. I chose the original because I grew up with it but in "reality" I would choose the Defiant.

[@ricreyes937]

i say "D-eez nuts" is the #1

[@GarfieldofBorg]

I don't have a problem with the look of either ship, but I do prefer the Enterprise-B over the Excelsior. In addition to not wanting to damage the original model for the Excelsior, I think the producers for Star Trek: Generations wanted the Enterprise-B to look unique in comparison to the Excelsior. Also, I do not consider the design of the Enterprise-B to be a refit design of the Excelsior class, since it was built from the ground up (so to speak), it was most likely intended to be a variant design that is specially equipped for mission profiles (like the equipment pods for the Nebula class starships in TNG). An in universe explanation for the differences in the designs could be that Starfleet wanted to make the Enterprise-B be an Excelsior class starship, but they determined that the Enterprise's original mission profile, and it being the flagship, required modifications that did not come standard with the design of the Excelsior class, and the engineering team responsible for constructing the Enterprise-B probably told them that major cosmetic changes to the design would be needed in order to accommodate the required modifications. Although Starfleet obviously approved those changes, they probably didn't want very many ships of the variant design to be built which is why (in universe) the Enterprise-B and the Lakota (from DS9) are the only known ships of the variant design to (canonically) appear in Star Trek. Another reason why I say that it is a variant design is because, to my knowledge, after the Lakota's appearance in DS9, all other Excelsior class ships that appear in DS9 and in VOYAGER (not counting the Excelsior herself) have been of the original Excelsior class design, NOT of the variant design. Regarding the smaller launch tubes on the secondary hull of the Enterprise-B, I believe that they were made to be smaller for the exclusive launching of probes, leaving the launch tubes in the neck for the firing of torpedoes. Yes, the Excelsior class has four forward launch tubes, even though only the two on the secondary hull of the Excelsior were seen in action in Star Trek VI.

[@Hawkadium]

Did they ever explain why they used that type of neck on those ships? I have expect it to bring the saucer section down so they ship can move into "super warp speed" lol.

[@CopturGobot]

i love the Ent-B upgrades and it was good to see them again on the Lakota in DS9

[@cosmicspooky]

the problem with the enterprise B is they wont have anything useful until Tuesday

[@CSX-fp9xk]

Great comparison video. The Excelsior and Enterprise B (in no particular order) are probably my second favourite starship after the Enterprise A/refit.

[@Maya_Ruinz]

I really love this ship, I can see the positives and negatives of both models but it fits in nicely in universe. Overall for me what sells this ship is the sleek, streamlined look of the saucer and how it connects to the hull, giving a curve into the deflector area, the look reminds me of a Ferrari F40. I also love that the idea behind its creation in universe is that its essentially a prototype starship built for speed but with the same firepower and presence of a frontline cruiser.

[@arnthorsnaer]

I’m very interested in knowing who created these renders / models?

[@eXcommunicate1979]

@9:44 Captain Foley, you're right. Feels like the B variant should have been the Excelsior, and then the later variants the smoother sleeker look. But at the same time, the idea that the B variant adds more labs, etc. for exploration and a wider mission profile is also good too. I can see it both ways. BTW, what's the speculation as to what the grill on the neck is for?

[@CommodoreFloopjack78]

Along with the Nebula- and Ares-classes, the Excelsior is one of my all-time favorites.

[@SchardtCinematic]

What is the big open area in the back of the ships? It doesant appear to be a shuttle bay.

[@dandanjobarnicles]

I always imagine that whenever a ship comes back from a 5 year mission it would go through an overhual and refit, so 8 years would be a long stretch.

[@simonkerr1899]

I've said it before and I'll say it again the Excelsior is a beautiful ship probably the most beautiful ship in the fleet. I'm guessing that captain Foley just hated the Excelsior because it wasn't the Enterprise.

[@paulwalsh2344]

But, c'mon, it's WAY too hard to top that TMP-TSFS era Enterprise ! It was beautiful !

[@poseidon5003]

It can be cool, while also being ugly at the same time. I love the ship, but it's not pretty.

[@JohnnyZenith]

@@poseidon5003 To me it's beautiful.

[@poseidon5003]

@@JohnnyZenith To each their own. In my opinion, a larger saucer would be an improvement.

[@xanderguldie]

Or people have different tastes. I don't hate it but it doesn't even crack my top ten.

[@NPractitioner]

Great ship. Remember trying to draw this from memory after my Dad took me to see ST:TSfS back in '83. Good times!

[@daric_]

The B refit just seems overly complicated by adding extra bits to the original model (which was done for the practical reasons you mentioned in the video), in particular with the nacelles and the neck. I do like the different placement of the impulse engines, though.

[@jordanreed3675]

11:39 about the torpedo launchers It looks to me like starfleet wanted to put more armouring around the launch port

[@CaptRobertApril]

If you're dealing with an already built ship, ala TMP, then it's a refit. If it's a brand new ship, it can't be a refit, because the ship is only now being equipped, i.e. "fitted", in the first place. In this case, we're dealing with the same relationship as the USS Nimitz to the Nimitz class USS Ronald Reagan. Some major differences between the two ships, yet nobody is calling the Reagan a Nimitz class refit, just a later design Nimitz class.

[@James-rn7dx]

It's not a Excelsior class refit. The Enterprise-B is an Excelsior class variant, probably built for a specific purpose and not intended to replace the original design. A refit would be a ship that's been is service that receives an upgrade to it's systems, a ship that was just built can't be a refit.

[@undertaker4518]

love that intro best yet!!

[@furiousfons5758]

I consider the enterprise B a Sub-class to the excelsior class, and thus is neither a refit nor an upgrade. there is plenty precedent from naval vessels past and present having been constructed as a sub class with preceding class vessels sometimes but not always refitted to the new standard. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town-class_cruiser_(1936)

[@Kaziklu]

It is neither a refit or upgrade. It is a different construction block with design modifications to fill a particular role that was taken up by other ships classes later in life. which is why we don't see this Hull design again even though the Excelsior Hull design is unchanged 60-70 years later I perfect example is the F-16 and it's variants. A F-16C block 30 vs block 52 have physical differences The Version the Saudi's have had built and the Iraqi Export Version and the Israeli version all have physical differences in appearance. Some through upgrades some through being built that way specifically to fill a particular role. I suspect the B was like this. It was a ship launched post Klingon Treaty (and before it broke down) and as such was likely fitted to be a science and command ship more than a multi missions ship like most large federation ships were. As such it was not built in any significant numbers. Much like the Ambassador class ships. Starfleet seemed to be made up primarily of smaller ships in the years after the destruction of Praxis it wasn't until war with the Klingon's in the 2340s that Larger ships were started to be built in larger numbers. The Nebula for example isn't seen until Best of Both Worlds as a class based significantly on the Galaxy class. The Excelsior was the most common star ship encountered by the Enterprise D appearing in 17 episodes (and 31 on DS9). The Ambassador appears in only 3 episodes as a contemporary ship to the Ent-D One of which is in the "Armada" to detect the Romulans so it's unknown if it was really in active service while only appearing once in DS9. It is clear that the Constitution was the primary ship in the federation well into the 2270s along with the Oberth and Miranda class ships. The Enterprise-B actually suggests something interesting. A period of Starfleet experimenting with new ship designs and systems. As ships like the Miranda and Excelsior designs were still in regular operation well into the 2370s While the Ambassador, Constellation, and the Enterprise variant of the Excelsior are no where to be found or are in the process of decommissioning. At or around the time of the Galaxy class being commissioned there were a number of smaller ships using similar design components that had already been put in service. The Nebula being the last of these and seemed to be a sister class to the galaxy. This would suggest that between 2290 and 2364 the Federation having gone through a number of design variations came up with the general components that made up the Galaxy which scale easily allowing for the creation of fleet ships fairly easily. Much as it was in the 2250 era with the Constitution era ships all having similar parts and the same thing in the 2270 refit period where the parts were all upgraded to match newer component ships like the Reliant. After Wolf 359 it would seem several ships of strong designs were pressed back into service and ships were built by Frankensteining parts. (Like the Centaur) Which may be the reason so many Miranda class ships are seen in DS9. Until newer classes of purpose built ships to deal with the Borg threat were built. It was in this period you once again saw more unique ships with fewer interchangeable components or parts that scaled in construction as easily. It also so a departure from the classic Saucer. The Enterprise B seems to be a start to this point where (if I want to make stuff up) the Excelsior originally being an NX design may have been selected to replace the refit design as the new standard component templates for future Federation ships. Plans that changed when Praxis went poof.

[@andrewswitzer6334]

We actually do see it again with the Lakota in DS9 (mostly, some subtle changes when they CGI'd it). And again it was to have the ship stand out from the other Excelsiors that we saw in the show.

[@Kaziklu]

you are right, I was remembering that as a standard hull. still of the 59 appearances only 2 have a similar hull configuration, which suggests it is a variant hull that is super rare... (because they only needed it to look "special" twice. I would have responded sooner but I got no notification

[@peridoodle2644]

I honestly prefer the B to the Excelsior. The B just looks much more capable

[@JohnnyZenith]

Me too.

[@na_1140]

It’s all the subtle changes put together with the big ones that make the Enterprise B more appealing. Like the color for example, I like the Turquoise coloring since it adds more flare to the ship itself

[@jamesmiles7987]

never been a big fan of the enterprise B. the excelsior just looks more smooth and classy.

[@JohnnyZenith]

For me it's the opposite.

[@jasonparis5635]

One question what are those square things on the front of the neck on the excelsior class. Are those torpedoe tubes because i know the tubes are in the secondary hull.

[@gorillazzilla]

The neck difference between first build Excelsior and the refit is the slight square off bit after the slits is lost on both the top and the bottom. So it goes from slats at the stardrive hull to the sauce section uniformly. I was wondering if you could pick up the Resolute-class/ Legendary Excelsior Miracle Worker Heavy Cruiser from Star Trek Online which going by the skin's flavour text said it was a mid 23rd century predecessor to the Excelsior class.

[@Trygvar13]

I always preferred the Enterprise-B. The addition to the secondary hull always looked like a Connie sauce to me which I really liked.

[@skagerstrom]

The "stance" of the Enterprise B is just awesome!

[@antwan1357]

Really wonder if both classes where called Excellsior . Now you guys know that this ship shows up in the dominion war , and I was told it was the older version of the Excellsior that was in it. Is that true?

[@JohnnyZenith]

Yea both were called Excelsior.

[@ANolsen]

Could someone like to where I can get the picture of them two together?

[@eXcommunicate1979]

Would love a high res render of that first image.

[@tabbirt7770]

I don't think the Enterprise B was a refit because it was built Brand New. I think it was the equivalent of a new model year. Excelsior 2.0. They made improvements to the Design as time passed and they saw where it was lacking. I'd lean it closer to an upgrade, but an upgrade while in progress. A refit also doesn't work because we still see Excelsior Classic in DS9 and TNG, had there been a refit eventually all Excelsior Class ships would have been changed over, and we would have seen refits in TNG and DS9.

[@eXcommunicate1979]

Exactly. The B isn't a refit at all, but a new build VARIANT of the stock design. In reality, given the Excelsior Class' multi-decade production run, there would have been half a dozen different variants of the ship as each new variant or "model year" would have incorporated new technologies and modified mission roles.

[@peccatumDei]

Tab Birt, I agree. We can see the same thing in the Nimitz class aircraft carriers of today. They are not identical ships, as running changes were incorporated into each ship.

[@Karagianis]

It's not that unusual for ships to have subclasses, this was just the design they'd moved onto for the Enterprise B's production group.

[@riochcogan8913]

Did the B have saucer separation and the prototype/ excelsior didn't?

[@markmayfield2228]

B was not a refit. It was an entirely new ship. NX to NCC Excelsior was an experimental to commissioned hull with the elements they decided to bring past the test bed phase. But Excelsior was an entirely different ship from the Enterprise B. As to which I like more...deflector dish model of the Excelsior (yes, I like the boat hull more) and the nacelles of the Excelsior (Enterprise B reminds me of Rocket Man); I like the dish of the B with the additional thrusters and the color scheme.

[@cybus01]

I really enjoyed the discussion of the Enterprise-B's shorter neck. Before with the Excelsior, the saucer section was raised slightly above the nacelles, but with the B it's a clean line across the nacelle lining to the impulse engines. The only problem I have with the B is the secondary hull. I think the Excelsior's hull but without the large cutout for the deflector and the smaller Enterprise-B deflector would be an interesting way to compromise between the two designs.

[@ashb1502]

Reference to your discussion about the neck being different between the Excelsior and 1701B, the Excelsior neck as a section at the top and bottom that is physically removed on 1701B. The section I mention doesn't have any fins on it, just smooth. This is not present on the B, giving it a more compact neck.

[@hawkstringfellow]

saquist i would like too see more of your ship it looks kool man how did you do that

[@FLAME4564]

hmmm That lower sensor dome or whatever u call that thing on the bottom of the Enterprise B saucer bares some kind of resemblance to the one on the Excelsior Transwarp prototype. Though to me the Enterprise B and Excelsior transwarp prototype both use the same lit sensor dome thingy.

[@ciscoduncan838]

I lean towards to the original class of the ship. Thanks for the video. 👍🏾✌🏾💯

[@steve2275]

1:23 not sure which one i like more the ent-b is aqua colored now i an tell the difference 14:48

[@Karagianis]

Maybe the Enterprise B had smaller tubes because they'd changed the mark of torpedo? Is there anything to say that a Mark VI torpedo was the same size as a mark VII? Or if they are maybe the newer torpedo leaks less energy so it doesn't need as much clearance exiting the tube?

[@jacobvaughn9276]

I can see why the captain likes the refit better, it fixed his biggest two gripes. it added a whole second deck along the bottom of the thin portion of the secondary hull, and moved the saucer down below the bussard collectors. fixed his issues with wasted space.

[@jacobvaughn9276]

giving the whole ship a thicker, less spindly feel.

[@bryanfederowicz3258]

That bulk on the secondary hull was for a cloaking device-- the Enterprise B was built before the treaty with the Romulans that banned the Federation from budling cloaking tech and also why there are few Excelsior classes that have that bulky lower hull. Also that's why it's next to the deflator dish since that is an important device to making the cloak work. If you just needed more labs and space, it would have been much simpler to just expand the hull towards the rear rather than next to the defector dish. The Federation certainly did have cloaking tech but had just decided not to develop it in order to maintain peace with the Romulans.

[@garyk3478]

The front of the Excelsior's secondary hull always reminded me of a boat's prow. I've always loved that. The Enterprise B's additions ruined that for me, and I never really liked that one. Then again, I never liked the Enterprise D, either.

[@MoA-Reload...]

I love the Excelsior design. The Enterprise-B variant for me though is an improvment. The original Excelsior always looked very sparse and almost incomplete, which works great considering she was a prototype test bed. You don't polish the chrome until you've got the thing working after all. Enterprise-B/Lakota for me are the finished, polished and good to go production models. Just a shame that the USS Hood pops up in TNG and they blew up a bunch of them in DS9 during the Dominion war. I would've been happy if Excelsior had been one of a kind.

[@danjam888]

Hey Guys, I only noticed this episode but it looks like the Excelsior has a more "blunt" nose for the secondary hull DIRECTLY below the neck, it almost continues the line of the neck down a small amount before tapering back to the belly, whereas the Ent B nose starts tapering more immediately towards the belly, before it is interrupted by the "bulge" I had never noticed this before, what are your opinions?

[@corranlindsay2629]

Since we still see the original Excelsior design in TNG and DS9, my sort of fan theory is that the original design is the model purpose built for operating within Federation space, and the Enterprise B Version had certain things added to make going 5-10 years in deep space without a spacedock more feasible. So it has more redundancies and more room.

[@One_Bar]

Don't forget the Constitution had a refit in between season 3 and TMP and had at least the bridge module replaced between Cage and No Man.

[@argotungsten4336]

I prefer the Enterprise-B more myself .

[@watcherzero5256]

One way of looking at it is the Excelsior was a test model, an X plane if you will. When you refurb that for multiyear exploration missions in deep space you need more engineering workshops to fabricate spares and maintain the ship in long duration mission.

[@mshnman]

"Nexk Week"? ;) 20:18

[@realbuckwell]

What do you guys think of Junkball medias ship reviews?

[@power543]

Sean Buckwell they are great :)

[@rpbrice]

I am a US Navy man, I would suggest looking at the differences between each ship in the Nimitz class. Even look at the differences of the ships themselves over their lifespan. 8 years is not too short of a time to see changes.

[@GregoryMCMAHON817]

Very cool video.

[@TexasCat99]

I like the B over the Excelsior. (I know - so few words)

[@tinman3586]

Me too. The Excelsior looks like it's missing something. The B looks so much more beefy that it's appearance makes it look significantly more advanced and powerful than the Excelsior.

[@chriscone1117]

It's funny how some things I'm more accepting of many opinions and "to each his own," but then for some reason it bugs me that Stuart doesn't love the Excelsior. I want Captain Foley to love the Excelsior! Love it, damnit! ;-) Look at it. Examine the data. It's objectively beautiful. Somewhere there must be a graph that proves it. 9 out of 10 dentists recommend Excelsior! :-)

[@thumb-ugly7518]

I imagine a preference for the "boat bottom" is a nostalgia for the Enterprise D, secondary hull.

[@sciguyjeff]

Thing I don't like about the B is the extra impulse engines are right in front of t he nacelles. Hope they put some really good shielding there to protect them from the impulse venting.

[@RobertJene]

sweet intro

[@MrReded69]

Hey Trekyards! Have you seen Alfabia JS's version of a Kelvin-Verse Excelsior?! I swear it makes it look beautiful! So good that I almost wish it was the Enterprise-A at the end of ST:Beyond!

[@chuc98]

The "boat bottom" on the secondary hull has always seemed to me like a nod forward to the Enterprise D secondary hull shape.

[@xheralt]

That was part of the intent of the design. Except of course, there is the Ent-C between them that resembles nothing more than an upsized Connie. Due respect to Mr. Probert, but frankly I'm glad his intended Ambassador-class design didn't go through, although in retrospect, his more elliptical secondary hull would be a better transition from Ent-B to Ent-D, whereas the canonical Ent-C is a better transition from Excelsior to Ent-D. It's a case of, who knew what which designs looked like and when, in the production pipeline.

[@godalmighty83]

In my head-cannon the excelsior was designed with the extra stresses and strains of transwarp in mind, when that didn't work they were left with a more Klingon style excessively durable hull and structure then strictly needed, this allowed them to operate for so much longer then first planned.

[@neophytealpha]

Perhaps an in universe explanation for changes was warp geometry. Where the Excelsior shape could be better for Transwarp but the B Enterprise configuration was better for conventional Warp.

[@jakegearhart]

My explanation for the bigger torpedo tubes on the Excelsior: The torpedos could have needed a different geometry to be able to fire at trans-warp.

[@lordlycius]

Could the torpedo tube size differences on the ships be because, The Excelsior as a path finding test ship, "May have had an experimental launching tube swap out system that could quickly swap out the standard torpedo tubes, with another set of over sized launching tubes for the launching of possible oversized space probes that may need to be launched enroute, on missions?" and that the swap out system was later eliminated from the production line model that was settled on for the "Enterprise-B & future ships of that line" and it was left from that point on as only the standard torpedo launching tube systems??

[@nukedathlonman]

I like both equally - they both have great design points, and no so great ones. Always wondered about saucer separation - that neck makes it look ideal for a prototype of that feature (maybe on a later variant, prior to the Galaxy Class). I know, Transwarp was the great experiment for the original Excelsior and not likely to sprout more experiments.

[@freagarthach4228]

So... Why are the bussards blue? Abrams?

[@adeskin1701]

Freagarthach, the Enterprise-B appeared in Star Trek Generations in 1994, fifteen years before JJ Abrams made his first Star Trek movie. So, no, the B's Bussard collectors are not blue because of Abrams since they predate his movies.