Trekyards EP267 - USS Excelsior/Enterprise B Comparison (Part 2)

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[@rickmeyer9495]

I just wish the additional impulse engines on the B didn't seem to exhaust into the warp nacelles.

[@evangreen3080]

The salsa wouldn't separate if you stirred it more often, Mark... The immense impulse engines don't make sense, as smaller ones worked just fine (are these weaker engines that need to be bigger?) on both the Excelsior and every other ship ever, except for his E-E. (...Eaves must have deep-seeded impulse-envy.) I wish they were for the saucer alone, but then they wouldn't be on, blowing into the Bussards all the time. Here's another vote for shuttle bays. Or (as that's a lot of shuttles in 4 huge bays) just saucer extensions (like on the Miranda) would be fine. It'd keep the pleasing shape without adding other issues. Maybe they could have had interesting sensor pallets or cargo bay doors or window installations on them.

[@tabbirt7770]

Maybe the glowing thing on the front of the Nacelle is a specific shield generator to divert the Impulse exhaust.

[@shawn2780]

I'm not convinced on the accuracy of the warp nacelle height as compared to the original studio model. It seems a funny thing to say because these models are otherwise super accurate and the modeler's work has an attention to detail that's unparalleled... but if I'm not mistaken they're actually a bit too low. If you look at a side profile of the original studio model the tips of the primary impulse engine assembly should match up perfectly with the engine grills. On the Enterprise B model (at least my physical model) the path of the secondary impulse engines is *just below* the warp engines.

[@shawn2780]

The question I would wonder... I imagine Rob Bonchune would know.. Are these models based on the Jein physical model built for Voyager.. or the OG enormous studio model. I think it was the Jein model that had the messed up neck size and therefore nacelle height.

[@paulwalsh2344]

Now that that's been pointed out, I can't stop thinking the same.

[@stuartkeen5234]

The colour change and fins on the nacelle give it a real art deco look which makes it pleasing to the eye.

[@novax-ig9yt]

Samuel, I have to also say that you do a great job re-creating all of the ENT, TOS, TMP-era, and 24th century ships! They are always spot on! And if you are not the only one to work on them, that also applies to whomever also helps out behind the scenes on those ships!

[@hopscotch916]

The Ent-B could have superior speed and maneuverability after saucer separation compared to other saucer flights we've seen.

[@TheXeldrak]

I like to think that this long strip behind the bridge of the Excelsior is actually a single, very long walkway to the bridge with a turbolift at its end. Built specifically for Captain Styles, so that he can have a entrance befitting his ego ;)

[@Jack_Stafford]

Thank you for this very thorough side-by-side comparison! Such Majestic and beautiful ships and it really does help to have one image slide over the other in the exact same position to pick up the fine detail differences. While you're talking about it and showing it at the same time; I know that takes a lot of editing work but it really does add to the understanding on the viewers' side in picking up those fine differences that can only be seen with a fade or wipe between one model to the previous one and then back again. It makes all the difference of the world! Thank you _so much_ ; extremely thorough, good work that is one of your unique trademarks that we greatly appreciate! You guys rock!

[@laviliterthefirst]

Never noticed before but if you take the space lost by the impulse engines on the B and reshape it onto the hull it works out to be about the same...almost like they did it to keep the same space. (move some labs out of the saucer and slap them onto the secondary hull lol)

[@BammerD]

Also subtle changes not mentioned... the addition of phaser banks to the bottom of the secondary hull and the top of the secondary hull, just above the shuttle bay.

[@MarkGill42]

Another great episode guys, thanks for highlighting the Excelsior-class again. You've juuuuust about convinced me re the Enterprise-B - the angel is in the detail, to coin a phrase - but while I love the more subtle changes you highlighted (always fab to learn something new about an old favourite!) I still think all the addons detract from the clean lines of the non-refit Excelsior. The glowing warp grills that started to pop up in DS9 and Voyager help too. Either way, it's given me a new appreciation for the refit design. Great job! :-)

[@richardajoy79]

If I was the designer of the Enterprise-B, I would've removed the original impulse engines and put shuttlebays there. No real need for four impulse engines, plus it would give it more functionality during deep-space assignments.

[@CaptRobertApril]

In the original design, those WERE shuttlebays. Someone at ILM didn't get the memo and they lit 'em like impulse engines, and now we're stuck with 'em.

[@enterprise-h312]

+CaptApril Wait, if those were the shuttlebays then where were the impulse engines located on the original?

[@morkofork]

That was the Enterprise E that had the shuttlebay & impulse engines swapped I think not the B.

[@CaptRobertApril]

The B still had the original impulse engines. The two additional shuttlebays are even identified as such on the MSD on the back wall of the bridge. ILM screwed up and there wasn't time/budget to fix it.

[@morkofork]

Well every day is a school day as they say.

[@Heavensrun]

that half shot in the thumbnail is giving me conniptions.

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very totally cool and very nicely greatly fabulously well done and very nicely informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on the Excelsior and the Enterprise-B Conparison indeed, And I myself own both versions by Eaglemoss as well as both of the model kits of them, And I myself love the Enterprise refit version better than the original version of the Class, Any ways a job very nicely wonderfully well done as always Sir's!👌.

[@TrentonBennett]

I know I'm 5 years late to the party but ORIGINALLY the additional huge ass impulse engines on the saucer for the B were meant to be shuttle bays. Doug Drexler pointed that out as he showed a picture of the original MSD (Master Systems Display) from the Generations B bridge set showing it. Also there's a book I think it's the sketchbook for Generations and First Contact that also has said original MSD. For whatever reason at the last minute they were changed to impulse engines and Doug Drexler had to make the change to the physical MSD on the B bridge set. Why they went from shuttle bays to impulse engines is beyond me. It would have been better had they been left as shuttle bays.

[@peterledholder2170]

Thank you for the videos about the Excelsior Class Starships the are my favorite starfleet ship class.

[@terifarley4770]

Enterprise B is twice as cool as the original Excelsior! That being said the Excelsior was quite a beaut when it surprised everyone on Search for Spock! I think it was more of a cool impact than when the Miranda was introduced on Wrath of Kahn. Understandably, the Bird of Pray is really what the audiences where drawn to on STIII, the Grissom also really nice. Wow, so many cool new ships when STIII was released, back in the old physical model and lighting days!

[@paulwalsh2344]

I couldn't agree less. The USS Reliant showed unequivocally, for the first time in Star Trek cannon, that Star Fleet had a multitude of ships and designs, and yet there was a plausible, cohesive look and feel to starship design. I thought it was brilliant. And that type of Saucer/Nacelle motif was expertly varied in the FASA Ship Recognition Manuals of the time.

[@ravenebony2267]

I love the additional touches of color on the B

[@CartierEd]

I wish the Discovery series was instead based on one of these ships.

[@cosmictyger]

I agree with your "secondary refit" comments on the nacelles. There does seem to be a "jump"

[@enterprise1701e]

Well... there is the Resolute-class Advanced Heavy Cruiser, which could be the next iteration of the Excelsior-class. Even though she was launched in the early 25th century.

[@mikepapafoxtrot9898]

These subtle changes do occur in real world ships. If you look at cruise ships, even if they are the same class of vessel there are small differences as the design evolves during construction and techniques improve. They also have slightly different paint schemes. Warships have similar subtle differences. Some of it helps them identify each other if the technology on board fails. You can essentially use the subtly different silhouette to identify the vessel in question.

[@bdgvids8119]

Love NCC 2000 and the B great video guys

[@dhindaravrel8712]

The neck contained bulky transwarp engine components and as they were taken out it wasn't needed to be this big any more. Since shield efficiency increased when reducing the length of the neck, they went for it. How's that for an in-universe explanation?

[@kwaktak]

The additional impulse engine and flaring around the primary deflector on the secondary hull of the B were simply an attempt to integrate elements of the Galaxy class in order to establish a precedent in the lineage of starships bearing the name Enterprise. Reverse continuity but also cheaper from a film production standpoint because they simply added elements to an existing physical model.

[@mikestoast]

The additional impulse engines do not work. They are blowing back onto the nacelles, unless the Bussard collectors and these engines just create a loop of material, for what purpose, who knows. They really are a bad overkill

[@DrewLSsix]

Yttrium. they are impulse engines, not rockets.

[@mikestoast]

the material still is ejected out of them in order to provide propulsion. To quote Uhura "the thing has to have a tailpipe"

[@darman12able]

Yttrium unless the angle they seem to curve at is pushing diagonally. That way your still pushing the ship forward and the thrust isn't impacting against the engines; any sideways motion from that would be cancelled out by equivalent thrust from the other engine.

[@evangreen3080]

But then you're pushing into the ship trying to crush it? Shuttlebays work better, or just general Miranda-like hull extensions (no need for four huge shuttle bays either.)

[@paulcontos5965]

yay! ive waited all week for this episode!!

[@jasonparis5635]

Does any think that the addition of the extra impulse engines on the enterprise-b looks good or not?

[@saquist]

-Fins make since for heat sinks but only with the rest of the intercoolers in the back not the front -The Additional Impulse engines are fine if you believe they don't put out exhaust. -It's true the lighter blue stands out more. Most people didn't know Excelsior was painted in those areas. -Both ships have impulse engines in the wrong location for Center of Gravity trust. Where They are Wrong. -Excelsior DEFINITELY had lighted Thrusters in Star Trek VI and in III Even in TNG too -Enterprise didn't have lit thrusters in ST: IV -Excelsior and Enterprise-B Necks are EXACTLY the same. Exactly 20 fins for each. EXACTLY 6 fins Height inside the Torpedo tubes.

[@tim18wheels76]

One thing could be improved over the Enterprise B variant. Delete the two center impulse engines and replace with a massive shuttle bay extending back to same location.

[@RetroBerner]

Another great episode, still hoping for that Pacific 201 Daedalus :) Thanks guys!

[@houseofscifi4077]

Another interesting ship comparison video, gents. Samuel: I have to take exception with your characterization of Capt. Harriman. In comparison to Kirk or especially Picard, Harriman is clearly a jumped up dilettante without the virtues of either captain and is capitalizing on on past notoriety of both the ship and the captain. Can you imagine Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Archer or even Sisko asking for "advice" on their bridge? Anyway, sorry for the rant. :-) #jkhanssteiner

[@donaldhill3823]

Fins on a space ship engine would not say aerodynamic, they says heat-sink which even with a Warp Engine makes sense. It would not be the "flag ship" unless they put an Admiral on board. I think the phrase you want (or at least better suited) is "Ship of the Line" meaning (in Star Trek thinking) it is the most powerful/advanced ship and the one that leads the way for the other ships but not necessarily the flag ship unless an Admiral decides to make it his/her command ship.

[@watcherzero5256]

I always preferred the original excelsior, it was sleek and simple upgrade of the constitution with better armour, weapons and manoeuvrability. Ent B they added a load of bulk that ruined her smooth lines. The original is a European sports car that looks like its doing a hundred miles an hour standing still and able to rock a racing track, the B is an American muscle car with a ridiculous oversized blower sticking out of the bonnet so the driver cant even see the road and only fast in a straight line or round a NASCAR circuit where it only has to steer a gentle curve one way. Its no wonder Starfleet never built any more of B mod.

[@Starleet106]

In order to understand the evolution of the excelsior class you have to understand the development of the first model. Once again, I am a huge fan of this class and I think they have definitely earned their place in starfleet hystory.

[@FLAME4564]

though theres one similarity I notice between both these ships is the sensor dome or whatever u call that dome on the bottoms of the Excelsior and the B. The Enterprise B sensor dome to me almost looks identical to the one seen on the Excelsior Transwarp prototype.

[@paulwalsh2344]

@ 4:42 the number of Impulse engines looks more beefy for sure, but comparing the impulse engines between the Excelsior, Enterprise "B" and Enterprise "D" doesn't make sense. The reason for the positioning of the impulse engines on the "D" is so that both the saucer section AND the secondary hull are fully functioning vessels when separated, whereas if the saucer section is separated on the TMP Enterprise, it's to make the saucer section a sub-light lifeboat (but then how does the "D" saucer still have warp capability ? That always bothered me).

[@GarfieldofBorg]

The Enterprise-B's design is not a failure, but it was probably not cost effective enough for Starfleet to want to have a large number ships built that are of the variant design, which is probably why there are more Excelsior class ships in the original design.

[@swfbutler]

@2:11 "The Excelsior has that line all the way around" What is that? If it's the warp engine coils/field grill, then why are the tops of the nacelles blue as well? If instead the warp engine coils/field grills are on top of the nacelles (as they are on the Enterprise-E), then what is that line that goes all the way around the nacelle?

[@thribs]

It's only because the B was made after TNG was finished. For all we know the B variant was made exclusively for the Enterprise.

[@thribs]

Or is that just the B in disguise? You never see them together.

[@FLAME4564]

The Lakota did share the same design as the NCC-1701 B but with TNG-DS9 style phasers and quantum torpedos.

[@roberttauzer7042]

I guess it's matter of personal taste; for me excelsior is one of most beautiful, if not most beautiful design in whole ST universe. Ent B is not bad, most of changes are not horrible, some things look cooler but they just interfere in already pretty well rounded design. Good example are those impulse engines - look awesome but are hardly necessary and look like overkill. I would give Excelsior 5/5 for design and 4/5 for ent B.

[@danielcraig9666]

That's not true, fins could be for cooling purposes. If the B's nacelles are leaning more towards TNG technology the initial step toward that would likely be hotter. Fins are an excellent dissipation method.

[@novax-ig9yt]

Now in my head canon, and also for my 1:2500 model, the Excelsior was refitted to the Enterprise-B configuration. However, I wonder what the"in universe" explanation for the TNG early appearances of the Excelsior class ships like the Hood remaining as the original configuration. We know the real reason is because the Hood predates Generations, but I wonder why it would not have been refit.

[@morkofork]

How many of the tiny differences such as the length on the raised structure behind the bridge could be errors on the 3D model rather than changes made to the physical model?

[@power543]

Mork_of_Ork2001 several but the people who made them were try f to be as accurate as possible. But take it with a grain of salt as we said in the first part

[@orange_light_pictures]

I like both ships but, there are certain parts of the Ent B design or at least the way the model has been rendered that i don't like. First is the the edition of the secondary/new impulse engines, i think the way they come to such an abrupt end, so squared off on the top of the saucer, I don't like that contrast as much, i'd much prefer if they were integrated like the miranda class. Like into a triangular top half coming off the bridge, similar to the Ent E as well. The second thing is the "boat bottom" the way it connects onto the secondary hull on the bottom half, could have been a lot better, so it integrates slightly better and, not the add on as it was. There was another thing i don't think the parts of the ship you thought were torpedo launchers are such, i think there thrusters and the torpedo launchers are in the neck, and there are a slightly turquise ascent in the Ent B. Scratch that i've been watching the treckyards episode with John Eaves and, they showed a shot of the film generations and those two square openings on the neck are shuttle launchers, ma bad.

[@biostemm]

Do you guys ever run into any issues from Paramount/CBS, since you use segments of the ST theme(s)? Do you think the Excelsior's we see in ST:TNG had all the "modern" amenities we saw on board the Galaxy class?

[@reyperry2605]

The one thing I DON'T like about the Enterprise B is the new impulse engines. Everything else is an improvement.

[@alanhembra2565]

Enterprise B is the best. Just because we don't see more of them doesn't mean others weren't refit as well. Lots of ships we don't see in this universe.

[@davidmolina3328]

I would love to see both ships in saucer separation mode. I'm sure the Enterprise B would be faster and more maneuverable with the extra impulse engines. Why don't you show us?

[@inmjoh]

There are no impulse engines on the secondary hull so it wouldn't work.

[@hexmachine8263]

Would the thrust from the new impulse engines hit the nacelles? Cause they're in line with each other.

[@christophermills7693]

Ent. B saucer is also supposed to be able to separate from the Hull

[@NathanHeadActor]

The Constellation class had four impulse engines didn't it ?

[@GregoryMCMAHON817]

Very cool video.

[@akrizar4]

The front of the nacells reminds me of kelvin-verse

[@cosmictyger]

The colors make it look like a model... and disturbed my suspension of disbelief.... I think that the change on the nacelles could have been a BIT more subtle. However, I do like the return to the Art Deco sensibilities of the refit. I never liked the "ball" support of the nacelles of the ship. It seemed to conflict with that "feel".

[@TheCGJeff]

Never noticed this until now, but the Excelsior class you use in that intro is the wrong variant

[@power543]

The CG Jeff yep :) that intro is 2 years old!

[@saquist]

Time for a NEW ONE!

[@power543]

Haha you think I have time...although saquist I will say I did spend most of a day working o a new main trekyards 2017 intro...its...better ;)

[@saquist]

Hopefully you have persmission to use as many of the real CGI models as possible...it would be stunning. Hopefully you can advertise that in the intro. I'm hoping you do something extremely cinematic for the next intro...something like the ENT: Mirror Universe intro, showing the Real models and you and the Captain as well as your most famous guest! I hope it's thrilling and as awe-inspiring as the Fan made intro's on You Tube. I'd be willing to fund you guys to Hire Synthetic Orchestra to do a Unique intro piece for Trek Yards. It's time you've had something completely your own.

[@power543]

well of course permission is a grey area but we have talked to people at cbs and I spoke about real models and the person I spoke to didn't have a problem with the way we were doing things. The new into is a remaster of the first trekyards intro with I think 20 original models...lots of cool ones and way better done. A new intro of the kind you described does sound fun tho! :D

[@enterprise-h312]

In terms of what you said on the nacelles on the Excelsior looking simpler, didn’t Andrew Probert say that the nacelles on the Enterprise-D were meant to be transwarp nacelles? 4:28 This to me vindicates my theory that it was specifically tagged on to give the Enterprise something extra even though it made very little sense from a practical standpoint. The Vulcan captain originally intended to get the flagship refused command upon seeing the illogical additions to the Excelsior-design and so an admiral’s son and rookie got appointed to the NCC-1701-B. All kidding (though it makes a disturbing amount of sense) aside, those extra impulse engines would make a lot more sense if they had two on the primary and two on the secondary hull each. The Galaxy-class works so well because it has got impulse engines on both sections to allow them to work independently of one another. The Enterprise-refit has the impulse engines on the saucer, so once it separates the “stardrive” section can no longer engage at impulse velocity.

[@FLAME4564]

Well since the Transwarp project failed they were dropped to just being warp nacelles after the transwarp project was not successful

[@denistuohy6420]

i think that the B is a variation rather than an upgrade

[@stevenbaumann8692]

Turquoise color was really big between 1993-1997

[@evangreen3080]

Anyone who was anyone was wearing it. FASHION

[@stevenbaumann8692]

Evan Green 😂👍🏻

[@Revan2574]

USS Pegasus. That why they can combine it with the 'tech' to discuss the cloak.

[@cadengrace5466]

Its odd that the lead in video of the various Enterprise's passing by the viewer shows a regular Excelsior class and not the B sub-type and the episode is about the Enterprise B sub-type.

[@power543]

Caden Grace that intro was made 2 years ago before I had an ent b model.

[@cadengrace5466]

Oh, I assumed it was a bit long in the tooth; it just gave me a chuckle for the irony.

[@GRIMEYtheFATMAN]

Well, I just thought of it as a showcase of the 'hero' ships of the franchise, as I'm sure I saw Defiant and Intrepid-class represented as well...

[@nicholasdickens2801]

The impulse engines though are blocked by those pesky Warp nacelles.

[@denistuohy6420]

i prefer the excelsior over the enterprise B, but my favourite ship is the USS Lakota

[@kwaktak]

I never liked the Excelsior proportions. The front of the secondary hull seemed bloated like it had a pot belly. I've never liked the right angle on the nacelle struts on any ST vessel either. It all seemed to go against the almost organic direction that Probert took with Jeffries' original Constitution design.

[@dragoontype00alphaz19]

what about the lakota class Excelsior from ds9 that has some very nice upgrades to it new warp nacelles and impulse engines have been refined new shields

[@dragoontype00alphaz19]

forgot upgraded phases and quantum torpedos and new deflector dish list go's on lakota Excelsior still in use in 25 century

[@dougmclean8403]

The Enterprise B secondary hull would look bad-ass with the saucer separated.

[@Toycoma]

Refit 1701 nacells have to be the best looking in all of star trek.

[@sovereign_shadowquester]

I thought the Enterprise A refit was duck eggs blue.

[@arnthorsnaer]

Where are these images from?

[@jsmasters77]

I think the Enterprise B should have the class of Excelsior-Alpha Class and not Excelsior Refit.

[@louferrao2044]

My question is the following. Is the Enterprise-B a different class of Starship than Excelsior? Or is it an improved Excelsior class?

[@freagarthach4228]

USS Excelsior and USS Enterprise-B are the same class, the Excelsior class, it's just that USS Enterprise-B is the refitted / upgraded version, that's all. USS Lakota, too. Remember what O'Brien says when they engage USS Lakota? "It's way too powerful for the Excelsior class starship". People get confused, because fans, including guys from Trekyards, refer to almost all known starships not by their class name, but by their ship name (in almost all cases it's the Enterprise).

[@louferrao2044]

Thank you for the clarification. I do remember O'Brien saying that out the Lakota.

[@FLAME4564]

I think O'Brian had a good point. The weapons on the Lakota were TNG/DS9 era tech from those phasers to the Quantum torpedos.

[@richardajoy79]

My fave two Excelsior-class ships are the Enterprise-B and the Lakota, cos they have the alterations. The lame production Excelsior, never really did anything for me, so it was nice to see the Enterprise-B and then reprise the model for DS9's USS Lakota.

[@enterprise-h312]

I personally think that it would have been better if we had gotten Andrew Probert's Ambassador-class flying around in TNG rather than so many Excelsiors.

[@richardajoy79]

That was a great design. For all the different classes out their, they could of spiced things up more.

[@NeovenatorRex]

I have to disagree, for me there is something about the Enterprise B that makes it look bad. The additional part at the deflector just seems to be in ther wrong place, the Fins on the Naycells look useless, the new Impulse Engines destroy the look of the saucer... The Excelsior, however, is my favourite Starfleet Design, the Enterprise B my least favourite One.

[@NeovenatorRex]

I'd also say that the Galaxy Class fully replaced the Ambassador Class, beacause they share a lot of phisical features, the Excelsior Class however was more different to the Galaxy Class and could still be used for a lot of purposes and missiones, that Galaxy Class couldn't do.

[@brucesmith8566]

Are the windows on some ships also solar panels?

[@power543]

Bruce Smith nope:) not fed ships anyway

[@howpaul7553]

You left space dock with out a tractor beam

[@02ujtb00626]

the nacelles are lower than they should be in these renderings....

[@Jedi_Order81]

I really like the extra bulk added to the Enterprise B. I agree, there is just something about it that grabs my attention more than the Excelsior. Now the Enterprise C, that is an ugly design in my opinion

[@bigbrian2977]

i never liked the Excelsior look ,i liked the saucer but not the rest ,do u ever do one these on capts?

[@TheKeeperoftheCreed]

ok so not 2 minutes in do not find a compromise between the 2 designs. ffs someone please put me in touch with utopia planiaia and let me give them a piece of my mind in star ship design. ffs put me to touch who ever comes up with the discovery ships so i can tell them to stop ripping off sto designs for a game to make them canon.

[@positronicfeed]

You're talking smack about Captain Sulu's ship. It's not on.

[@xanderguldie]

12:50 dang that C looks ugly!