Troubled Teenager Shot Six Times by His Grandmother After Failed Drug Test | Sandra Layne Analysis

[@janibeg3247]

i remember this case. That kid should never have been dumped on grandma.

[@joanmcdonald3176]

💯💯💯

[@charlesreid9337]

So you blame literally everyone but the murdering psychopath 911. Perhaps you have heard of it. Or perhaps those are too many numbers to hold in your brain. Instead of sending her husband away and getting her gun add going to the kids room to kill him perhaps you could have called 911 and add the police remove him Nice job ignoring that she had absolutely no marks on her

[@charlesreid9337]

​@@robertruge2916she sent her husband away got her gun what do her grandsons room andmurdered him She did not call the police and ask him to remove him. She did not ask her husband to stay. She did not do any of the million things that would not involve murdering her grandson.

[@Callsignethiopia]

Or maybe grandmas shouldn’t mag dump their grandchildren

[@pebble312]

@@CallsignethiopiaThank you ^^^^ people really wanna blame the parents before the actual cold-blooded disgusting murderer 😂

[@JamesThomasJeans]

I've heard this 911 call. I dunno what really led up to the initial shots fired, but after that? The woman clearly executed this kid. She had him down, he was dead to rights, and she kept on shooting him. She wanted him dead. That's murder.

[@TheDramacist]

Yes, she had it all figured out. All except the 911 call. Why did this gruesome hag think death was the right & only option? His family were a mess. Had his parents or grandparents been better people, he'd have matured very differently.

[@caitchri2426]

I agree. One shot and screaming for him to get out? Okay, I could see shooting from fear or in defense. Two shots in the back? On top of 4 other shots? That’s murder.

[@Rebecca-hc5ju]

That call is one of the most excruciating I've ever heard and I've heard hundreds.

[@annjepsen1621]

​@@Rebecca-hc5ju Yes, it was totally heartbreaking!

[@madaemon]

That's my take, as well. Going to get the gun and coming back before the confrontation is understandable given his history and her age, as is shooting him once or twice in a moment if he did attack her. But he's the one calling 911 and expressing the terror of someone scared they're about to die. He was incapacitated and no threat to her from that moment on.

[@bthomson]

Parents who send unruly children to be cared for by their parents are not doing ANYONE any favors!

[@misstinahamilton5714]

Well said ! It is not a solution at all !!! Take care of your own kids !

[@kathywright7395]

amen

[@ursodermatt8809]

i had the same thought exactly.

[@nataliep501]

💯

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Imagine raising a failed parent then having to take their kid 😭

[@hopeforjustone]

If she was so scared of him then why would she send her husband away so she could be in that house alone with someone who she was scared of like that in this life.

[@S-terNichols]

Exactly! Premeditated possibly...and she seemed emotionally controlling. Sad none of them sought counseling early on.

[@Prismalpink]

Cuz she wanted to kill him and cover it up

[@sharonwheat3659]

Maybe she was trying to protect her husband.

[@AlastorsShadowDemon]

@@sharonwheat3659 Bullshit.

[@judyives1832]

She could have just called the cops, and revoke his parole which would have forced him to go into jail. That would have given him a chance to get sober.

[@theneontiger5280]

Out of control teenagers should not be left in the care of elderly grandparents. The parents of that boy set her up for horrible failure. Very sad story.

[@tharsis4340]

For sure, in ideal situations, but the mom had a brain tumor. Sandra made a bunch of awful decisions.

[@ticket2space]

Sounds like they set the child up

[@breanapadilla3661]

Telling her husband to walk the dog sounds like she intended to kill her grandson and didn't want her husband around to stop her.

[@Bethany0420]

Facts 💯

[@garygardner-j3f]

It does sound like you say but I thot it might have been to protect her husband from any fight that might happen, even the stress of another verbal one and like TG says she might have been afraid Fred would have kicked him out. Im just not sure it was so planned out. A complicated tragedy

[@ogmeatwad.6]

@@CaptainSnackbeard the 2 shots in the back while your grandson is laying down bleeding out is wild.

[@loki2240]

@@CaptainSnackbeard- And if she was so fearful (I'm not saying she wasn't), to the point of buying and wielding a gun, she should've taken the reasonable step of sending him back to his parents. If I feel like I have to be armed against a person in my home, that person can't stay in my home.

[@Juno.comment]

Her husband knew she meant business.

[@cheryljohnson7091]

"In a crisis, hydration is the key!"- another delightfully wry comment from Dr. Grande.🤣

[@babblingalong7689]

Dry humour, yeah.

[@janicewashington4318]

😂😂😂😂

[@mimax4498]

She wasn't afraid of the kid..she was angry at him.

[@GenXfrom75]

Yes! Anger isn’t fear. Thank you

[@GenXfrom75]

@marylevin9262 not always

[@ScottShedd123]

He caused her narcissistic injury, apparently she was a school principal. I watched a interview with her and the victim's family.

[@joe-31]

​@marylevin9262 nope

[@joe-31]

@@allisonisis 🤣👌

[@swelldritch2774]

The kid having a spice habit is really concerning. For those who don't know, synthetic weed is almost nothing like real weed. It can have extremely negative side effects like aggression, paranoia and even psychosis. Its also significantly physically addictive unlike the real thing. Not saying that justifies her actions, but its more than likely he'd been violent with them in the past.

[@chef7658]

i think the grandma did us all a favor. spice is its own breed of cancer like crack or heroin. if you smoke spicr you are dumb.

[@carnifaxx]

from this description it sounds like she was using it, too

[@charliehedrick6414]

My experiences with spice differ greatly. Grannie overreacted

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@charliehedrick6414 so what was your experience again exactly?

[@ryanbales8116]

K-2 almost killed me.

[@Jamesssssssssssssss]

I don't know how I'd react to this to be honest with you if my mother killed my child. I would probably have a mental health emergency.

[@raquellofstedt9713]

So woud I, seeing as my mom died in 2017, to start with.

[@Swansong321]

@raquellofstedt9713 genuinely made me laugh!😂

[@ronalda1000]

What if it's the other way around like the Ukranian girl killing her paternal grandmother 🤔 just saying

[@loki2240]

I'm not so much concerned about my parents intentionally unaliving my kids. But they both physically abused my siblings and me, 7 years ago my mother suggested that I hit my 3 year old son because he was throwing a tantrum because he hadn't had a nap, my dad SA'd at least one of my sisters, my dad is an unsafe driver, and they both have really messed up opinions about certain groups of people (if you can guess my meaning). My other siblings have let their kids stay with our parents over summer break (including the sister who was SA'ed, and she has a daughter). But my wife and I won't do it. I offered to stay with them, mostly stay out of the way, help out around the house, and my mother or I could drive when they wanted to take them somewhere. But my dad took offense to the suggestion that he's an unsafe driver (like the accidents and countless times drifting off the road weren't suggestion enough), and he said that's not the way they do things (even though my younger sister demanded that our mother drive her kids, and he apparently complied - he's an insecure person who's even more insecure around other males). My mother would rather complain about him than actually take action to improve her own life. So, she won't just say that my boys and I can be guests in what is her house too and she can drive them in her car. That was 2 or 3 years ago, and my sons don't really understand why they can't stay there like their cousins. I just keep telling them that we haven't been able to work it out, and there are other factors like my parents live 12 hours away, my parents are mid 80's and late 70's and have health issues, our other family trips, summer camps, and the boys' short summer break. They're still developing their sense of self and sense of family, so I don't want to tell them the really bad things that my parents have done.

[@raquellofstedt9713]

@@Swansong321 glad to be of service! Actually, I never worried as much about my mom- she actually saved my oldest once. My MiL being careless has worried me far more.

[@yamnjam]

She knew all she had to do was call the cops and have him kicked out. Instead, she hid the gun from her husband and sent him outside while she confronted the grandson. The fact she kept shooting over and over, even in the back, shows she meant to kill him. I don't buy the senile old lady act.

[@djg5950]

Obviously the jury thought that, too. She's in prison for the rest of her life for the decisions she made that day.

[@TronBonneVonne]

Not true. The police can't force somebody out of a home unless they get a restraining order or whatever the equivalent is in MI. Or, the person committed a crime that warrants immediate removal. Either way, you can't just have police come and remove someone you don't like, you have to go through a bureaucratic process, usually.

[@loki2240]

​@@TronBonneVonne- He wasn't her legal dependent or a legal resident of her home. He was a guest. I'm pretty sure she could've trespassed him from her home. And wasn't he 18 or about to turn 18 that year? And he planned to flee his probation violation. And he planned to steal her vehicle and $2K of her money to flee the probation violation. I don't know about MI, but officers in other states have responded to people having a mental health crisis, unarmed, nonviolent, at their own home (including minors) by unaliving them. I don't believe that MI couldn't have arrested him, let alone removed him from the home. And she probably lied about him hitting and kicking her, after speaking to her attorney. So, she could've lied about him having assaulted her before calling the police to arrest him for threateningto steal from her and flee. He was on his way to incarceration anyway. And lying about him assaulting her, to get him out of her house immediately, would've been better than taking his life.

[@dubaiedge]

​@@TronBonneVonnetrespassing.

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@dubaiedge i very much doubt you can trespass a family member.

[@nancyjames2358]

As a psych nurse, “doing a little spice” is not at all like “a little” marijuana. It took 4 police officers to hold down the 19 year old that came to my facility, and the shots did not work…he was screaming and banging on the window for several hours-VERY SCARY! Also, he NEVER was the same-he became psychotic from 1 weekend of “partying”. Saddest thing I ever saw. Imagine dealing with THAT as a 72 year old. This child was in serious trouble and needed help-but so did grandma-they were both failed by EVERYONE involved, and now he is dead and she will die in jail-TOTAL tragedy!

[@OtisFlint]

People have no idea how serious spice/k2 are. People have ended up psychotic for the rest of their lives.

[@lamblyn]

But to the point where she shot him multiple times like that, he had 6 shot gun wounds. She also had her husband leave the house before she killed her grandson.

[@jool5941]

I don’t understand how Spice is legal but weed isn’t

[@ticket2space]

Right but nothing was broken there were no injuries to anyone but the gunshot wounds

[@ticket2space]

He's the one who called the police.

[@sketchysketches381]

All the prep/practice and getting rid of Fred really pushes me towards the belief that she was hoping to kill him. There's just too many options for her to stop herself from continuing to ever see this as self-defense. Going downstairs to get more ammo after there's enough blood to track through the house is egregious

[@ar6146]

Yes, it was 100% premeditated murder. If you listen to Jonathan’s mom talk about Sandra, things start to make a little sense. She was an absolute monster.

[@saras123]

It was premeditated murder and I am really surprised at Dr Grande’s take on this. He presented the “he threatened her and wanted to steal her money” as facts when it was only the grandmother’s claim. The “let go” is also an obvious attempt after she heard he was calling for help. Even the video thumbnail of the victim is very disturbing. It left a bad taste in my mouth and unless I am missing something, like Grande has more details about this case that isn’t known to the public, I really felt sick watching this video and the way he portrayed the victim. If we are going to look down upon drug addict teenagers and think their murder is fine then we are really doomed.

[@mimax4498]

​@@ar6146she shouldn't have sent him to the slaughter house she knew. Should have been emancipated or institutionalized.

[@ar6146]

@@saras123 I think it may be an unfortunate side effect of his insane production pace…he churns out content like a machine, but I’ve noticed what appears to be a decline in critical analysis, which would make sense because how could you possibly devote enough time and energy to these complex cases when you’re pushing out new content every day…no bueno

[@saras123]

@@ar6146 the thing is, many of the cases I listed to here I hear for the first time from Grande and I always appreciate him humanizing the victims and not only bring up their good sides but even the bad and imperfect ones. And I usually trust his judgement but since I have read and listen to this case a lot, and seen the lack of remorse the old lady had throughout the trial, I feel like, what if Grande has twisted all the cases he covered to fit his narrative? Maybe he isn’t as biased and professional as I thought

[@luvmenow33]

Not only does she get her husband to leave but she never told him she bought a gun. She decided she was gonna kill him long before she actually did

[@TheDramacist]

​@joan-lisa-smith agreed. She had her ducks all in a row and her gun was ready. Had he not made the heart-wrenching cry for help to 911, it likely wouldn't have gone to court. She'd have gotten away clean. That poor dumb kid was experiencing a lot of psychological baggage as he flailed through puberty. Had he lived to adulthood, his brain would have finished developing by 25. The right support, love & counselling could have helped him make better choices. Instead, Gran made yet another horrendous choice for him. His family were awful.

[@VendieSolde]

​@joan-lisa-smithbs

[@13lilsykos]

Completely disagree. She was worried she was going to have to use it but I highly doubt she was planning some kinda of evil serial killer granny.

[@Sarahopal]

I've worked with a lot of foster kids. They often end up with grandparents. I know that keeping them in the family is best. But also, they are the ones who raised the people who were such bad parents they lost the kids. It's not always their fault, and people change. It's just a whole mess. I've seen kids go to the grandparents where I was absolutely shocked that the state thought it was a good idea

[@JessicaO490Z]

Yes this is true. As a school nurse I've seen some grandparents that have guardianship and it totally explains what happened to the parents. Whereas other grandparents their child was just an outlier and they're doing an amazing job. For me personally my grandmother raised three exceptional women, but my mom was not one of them. She chose to party too hard and eventually got addicted to drugs. The best parts of my childhood always involve my grandmother, and she's the one that helped teach me how people really should be.

[@Sarahopal]

@jessicaolson490 I'm so glad your grandma was there for you and sorry your mom wasn't. My mom is a schizophrenic drug addict. My grandma did the best she could though. I had one girl who was sent to her grandma while I'm practically yelling at her case worker "you realize grandma is the one who got her mom on dr*gs right?!?" Then another little girl whose grandma was amazing and begging for her but the state said Nah, let's send her to stay with her unstable aunt. It's a crazy system. And yes, I totally agree, sometimes the grandparents did the best they could and the parent was just an outlier for sure.

[@loki2240]

​@@Sarahopal- I think I responded to you in another thread. My parents abused my 5 siblings and I, and we all suffer from mental health issues today. I don't know of any of us being at risk of having our kids taken away, but I know I've sometimes struggled to parent well. Being better than my parents is a really low bar, and not doing what they did doesn't determine what I should actually do in a particular situation. While I've never been violent, I have slipped into authoritarianism sometimes when other approaches haven't been effective (at least quickly enough for my patience at the time). So, I have some sympathy for people who had poor parenting and are poor parents themselves. Being a good parent can be very difficult when one was raised with poor parenting.

[@Sarahopal]

@loki2240 oh 100% ❤️ I hope I didn't sound like I lack empathy for anyone involved. We are all doing the best we can. Sometimes the best we have isn't enough but that's what you have. My mom suffers from schizophrenia, addiction and DID. She was an awful mom, but she did the best she could. I had my daughter when I was barely 16 and I was a good mom for the first couple years. Then I really struggled. You get your coping abilities from your parents. If they don't have any either, then you aren't just born with them. They aren't able to teach them. I take care of 2 little girls sometimes right now. Their momma worked so hard to get them back and I love her, I want her to do well. She's just really struggling because nobody ever showed her that life doesn't have to be a constant struggle. She has zero coping skills. But she's doing the best she can and I applaud that. Every tiny win is still a win. So I do what I can to help and I try and show her coping skills. That's amazing that you were able to break the cycle. It can be insanely difficult to not fall into habits you were shown as a child. Some friends of mine started an organization here that helps struggling parents Before child services gets involved. So they can try to avoid ever getting into the foster system. They offer to take in kids (into vetted, stable families) for a short time so parents can focus on getting sober, getting housing etc.. when there's a fear that their kids may be taken. They are such a compassionate and awesome group. I wish we had way more groups like them. God bless ❤️

[@loki2240]

@@Sarahopal - No, I wasn't criticizing you at all. Just describing myself.

[@debswatching]

Hydration IS the key!

[@chesterpophamproductions2879]

When Grandma said "let go" she was telling him to let go of life and die.

[@iminabrons]

That's what I thought.

[@ravenrozeb3790]

I thought the very same thing. She wasn't in panic when she said that, so clearly she was encouraging the kid to just let go of life.

[@13lilsykos]

Speculation... You can't clearly or you know these things because you weren't there and could only hear it.

[@sketchyold]

Oh! Thank you for your brilliant analysis!

[@Big_Tex]

My grandmother used to pack a .44 caliber Magnum revolver. She loved to show it off to us. But she never shot any of us.

[@Strideo1]

Good thing you stayed off drugs.

[@loki2240]

Did she drink whiskey and chew tobacco, too? My great grandmother and great aunt got busted for making moonshine during Prohibition. My great grandmother lived to be 98, and my great aunt lived to be 106. Unfortunately, my grandfather was an alcoholic and a smoker, and he died in his 50's.

[@Big_Tex]

@@loki2240 she didn’t drink or use tobacco, but she was pretty crazy. She loved to tell stories of getting in fights 🤣

[@Sammsy1126]

She shot me

[@djg5950]

@@Sammsy1126 Are you a sheriff ? She shot the sheriff but she did not kill the deputy.

[@TheSlong123]

She also told her husband that she would tell him when to come back with the dog. He came back when he heard the sirens. And she did reload and shoot again while he was already bleeding out.

[@jhreader]

I believe that her actions were premeditated. She purchased the gun and didn’t tell her husband and then told her husband to leave the house. She sought the boy out in the house and continued to shoot him while he was on the phone with 911. Maybe she didn’t intend to murder him but she 100% planned and intended to confront him with a gun. What did she think was going to happen? She baited him and then tried to cry wolf. He may have been a challenging kid but he was still just a kid.

[@RE1GN_BLOOD]

This was a premeditated murder. Buying the gun and not telling anyone is a red flag then she tells her husband to leave and then shoots her grandson. This is pretty open and shut

[@evilweevle]

she bought the gun because he was clearly dangerous and feared for her safety (and rightly so). You think her intention was to kill him from the beginning? The kid sounds completely unhinged. I dont blame her for shooting him honestly. She shouldnt have gone after him and shot him more though. People cant act in a completely unhinged manner and then complain when people retaliate. Someone was going to be killed because of this kid.

[@MyEnemy]

People who leave those kinds of comments are usually young and have no life experience. The kid was a menace and they were too old to defend themselves. Anyone who's dealt with drug addicts knows how scary it can be.

[@Jimmy_Watt]

​@@MyEnemyI've never heard of a successful self-defense case in which the defender followed around the perpetrator for several minutes, and shot them multiple times after they were no longer a threat.

[@djg5950]

@@MyEnemy First, let me say, I am old. Never had kids so none of these problems arose in my life. Next, let me say; this is typical behavior of too many youngsters now-a-days. Some teenagers want to do what they want to do and not have to suffer the consequences for their bad decisions. They don't respect authority or wisdom that comes with life and experience. He may have had some problems and his mother thought by sending him to his grandmother to raise would be best for him and probably for herself and the rest of her family. Grandma wasn't taking any of that $hit and only saw one way to change things. Not sure how I would have handled this but buying a gun would have been the last thing on my mind. I could have been her, very easily.

[@victoriajohnson4420]

@@Jimmy_Watt The key is whether Sandra perceived him as no longer a threat. When the first shot did not drop him, she may have feared that he would continue to attack her. Once you hit or injure or even tase or shoot a drug addict, they may just become more maddened and pursue vengeance. Remember that Sandra was filled with adrenaline at this point, and was indeed a weak old lady pitted against a strong young man. I'm not even sure of her mobility, and whether she could have run out of the house and called for help.

[@fulanichild3138]

Those poor parents---divorce, daughter's brain tumor, out-of-control son who gets killed by grandma. Unbelievable trauma for all.

[@victoriajohnson4420]

Poor parenting, more like. They raised an out-of-control child, semi-orphaned their son by divorce, and then dumped him on grandma to take care of, drugs and all. Real trauma- for grandma.

[@loki2240]

@@victoriajohnson4420 - You don't know why the son had behavioral issues.

[@nanettevantriesteharder2469]

@@victoriajohnson4420 Poor parenting is often due to a pattern of intergenerational dysfunction. Certainly, this grandmother made poor choices, too.

[@raquellofstedt9713]

@@nanettevantriesteharder2469 Far from consistently true. If you dig onANY family, you can find material to support this or the opposite theory. Addiction brings with it its own pathology, and relational issues.

[@carnifaxx]

@@raquellofstedt9713 well, the addiction is a result of something as well...

[@daheikkinen]

The worst thing my grandma ever did to me was buy me socks for Christmas

[@whirlingidervish]

The older you get the better you appreciate socks as a gift.

[@rockyevans1584]

​@whirlingidervish it's never bad, this fellas saying it's the worst thing she did to him, it speaks to her demonstrable care and compassion. I had and have awesome grandparents as well, the worst I could say is when my grandma used to shut down our game of "see who can jump from the highest stair". Grandparents are the best, at least they can be

[@tinareaume7484]

His parents foisted him off on her. Shame on them.

[@lv7603]

@@tinareaume7484 probably no better don’t expect them know what shame is.

[@tonytandtherevengeofthecru9108]

I think you wrong on that one. There is a longer video on KZbin. That says that it was the grandmother idea that her grandson stay at hers.

[@twilightgardenspresentatio6384]

Mother had brain cancer, Grandmom was the only option anybody had Uncontrollable grown boy attacked her physically then got shot

[@tubester4567]

This why is why you dont piss off your granma, they are old and have nothing to lose.

[@greenearthblueskies8556]

@@twilightgardenspresentatio6384 WRONG🤦🏻‍♂️..the grand daughter had the tumor...not the mother...pay attention.

[@DigitalNeb]

This kid really needed better guidance. It's unfortunate that he got dumped off with his grandmother when what he really needed was a stay at a psychiatric treatment facility. I wish the state was more open to helping families seek long term commitment for family members with serious mental issues.

[@vladname9267]

Psych wards ain't much better unfortunately

[@HereWashThis]

Yeah, uh, he’s male. Males don’t matter much these days. Putting resources towards them means fewer resources for the ladies.

[@DigitalNeb]

@@vladname9267 yeah, but they don't shoot at you there, and they are actually trying to help people.

[@derkeheath5172]

It's virtually impossible in much of the country. Even if you luck out and find an opening, good luck being able to afford it.

[@tracycottrell5146]

Didn't reagan do away with state run psychiatric hospitals when he was the original "make America great again" guy? Maybe he was talking About south america. Maybe he should have specified

[@glum1208]

"Can I get you some water?" Is crazy wtf

[@trevorrogers95]

“Oh sh!t he called the cops I better pretend to be concerned about him.”

[@user-ub9xw8ro3y]

And just like that, Fred finally had a peaceful life.

[@ShelleyBean1808]

Ouch!

[@joanmcdonald3176]

😂😂😂

[@luvmenow33]

🤣🤣🤣

[@connorm3436]

11:03 why would she be worried about her husband kicking her grandson out of the house but not confronting her grandson with a gun? If he was left to live on the streets he would at least be alive and have a chance to choose a different path in life.

[@dubaiedge]

Because she's certifiable.

[@trailboss3131]

I think we need to build A LOT MORE mental hospitals, not prisons so people like Dr. Grande can study them.

[@erikhouston]

The kid called 911, asked for help, while his grandma drilled some more holes in his young body

[@killerqueen873]

@@RuneCarverLLC this was not self defense she shot that boy twice in the back and she could've just called the police if she really feared that he'd steal her property

[@bonchidude]

@@RuneCarverLLC Yeah but murder is not the answer.

[@bonchidude]

@@RuneCarverLLC There is a better solution. Put some thought into it.

[@markferguson3745]

Sounds like Grandma made an executive family decision .

[@user-xt9jl6rw9e]

😂😂

[@timcase3271]

Hehee

[@SukiSays23]

😉

[@hopeforjustone]

I worked as a mental health therapist for 10 years in the department of juvenile justice, the young man would have been considered an easy case to help correct his behaviors. I worked with youth that were way worse in behaviors and they had elderly care givers who never committed the terrible act this grandmother did.

[@SoManyBasses]

Respectfully, anyone that thinks a spice user is an “easy case” has never dealt with spice users.

[@hopeforjustone]

@@SoManyBasses yes I have! Most of the DJJ kids used it.

[@hopeforjustone]

@@allisonisis no.

[@feitme]

Worried about you handling cases when you're making blithe judgements on individuals you've never been acquainted with. Regardless of what grandma did and wanting to give him sympathy, you don't know if this guy would have been an easy case or not.

[@JDoe001]

Two in the back? Self-defense? 😒

[@Treblaine]

Remember, reality isn't like a video game where you have a nice clear crosshairs, you have to line up the sights over the target so they're largely obscured by the body of the gun and the hands. Also, a gun that hasn't been fired much often has a lot of oil in it that will vaporize into a cloud that obscures at the moment of shooting. It's really common for the attacker to turn at the moment the decision to fire and just not notice this soon enough if you're shooting quickly. Combined with age and panic, this should be an expected limitation of actions, culpability should depend on morality of the accused not a technicality of how their actions are imperfect and imprecise. So by itself, this doesn't prove much.

[@richspillman4191]

He wouldn't listen

[@JDoe001]

@@Treblaine I respectfully disagree. Using your own logic: being elderly with slowed reflexes, likely living with some arthritis… it is quite a feat that she was able to hit him/shoot him at all. It HAD to be deliberate (the TWO shots in the back). Murder.

[@Treblaine]

@@JDoe001 Does she have arthritis? You're just concluding she's guilty based on a condition she could have but you don't know if she had. This rough reasoning is why I think she's innocent, people are clearly jumping to conclusions.

[@JDoe001]

@@Treblaine I’ve never met anyone her age that doesn’t have arthritis; moreover, EVERYONE at her age has slower reflexes. It’s a fact of life. Do you personally attack people who debate with you regularly? That’s a sign of something. Insecurity? You can’t be wrong?

[@maxmeier532]

In some countries, self-defense cannot be claimed when you had the chance to retreat. Once you retrieve your gun and approach a perceived threat on your terms, it cant be self-defense anymore. It means that you were aware of an escalating situation, prepared yourself to act violently and possibly fatal, and at no point called the police.

[@lilinsulatorchick9665]

I started watching you because you were informative, well spoken, and professional. But I stayed for the funny ass quips like "in a crisis, hydration is key" 😂 love your humor man ❤

[@voyaristika5673]

74 years old taking over an out of control teenaged boy? How did THAT happen? Was she afraid to say no to her daughter? Did she offer? Crazy.

[@joanbaczek2575]

She refused to give the grandson back to parents because that would mean she had to admit she couldn’t control his behavior this woman spent her life abusing children her grandson acted out more from her mental abuse rather than withering to a shell like her kids did. This pissed her off she couldn’t tolerate the battle of the wills she wanted the final say ! Everything she did proves premeditation!!! Grow up!

[@diquadhumungersaur492]

every old woman gets remarried to a guy named "Fred".. not even joking,they must give them out free with arthritis prescriptions

[@Jamesssssssssssssss]

Who's this Flintstone fellow??

[@Bethbutucancallmechandra]

I married a old widow and oddly enough she required I changed my name to Fred beforehand

[@808Fee]

😂😂😂

[@Kc-dq7zj]

😆😆💀

[@djg5950]

@@Bethbutucancallmechandra You need to change your user name to FredHawkins for me to believe that, LOL !

[@ambergriffes6122]

Dr. Grande, you also consistently generate an interesting dialog 😂 It is much appreciated!

[@nassrakhan863]

The parents' failed the kid. He needed to be with parents, not grandma. I heard the 911 call the kid made to the police, that was really sad. He definitely needed help but he did not deserve to die for his bad behaviour. I blame the parents for this outcome.

[@yayakelley7771]

It’s been awhile since I heard the details in this case but I do remember that grandma damn near insisted he come live with her. She was going to be the savior who “saved” him. I also vaguely remember that the parents wanted him to receive mental health treatment but grandma wasn’t a fan of that.

[@ambergriffes6122]

​@@yayakelley7771yes

[@trevorrogers95]

@@yayakelley7771Wow. You got to be kidding me. That’s ridiculous.

[@Is43109]

Parents were in crisis themselves. Dont be too hard on them.

[@nicoleschultz7782]

He said that they were dealing with a brain tumor with the other child. Sometimes there's just no good option, or other option, in a situation.

[@jon590]

1/3 of Jonathan's GSW was to his back. The murder IMO was premeditated. Jonathan was wrong, but so was Sandra. It's just a sad situation that could've been prevented.

[@tripledair]

Sandra: Shoots grandson 6 times. Also Sandra: "let me get you some water" That's wiiiiiiiild.

[@fulanichild3138]

Maybe her lawyer could have made a dementia defense. The shooting seemed premeditated but totally irrational. She could have had him jailed instead and refused to take him in again.

[@djg5950]

"Let me get the first aid kit and patch up those holes. You'll be fine." LOL !

[@dubaiedge]

​@@djg5950that'll buff out, kiddo, take 2 aspirin.

[@reddishf0x237]

I'm ready to speculate without diagnosing in a situation like this

[@oregonsnob31]

At least you’re honest about it

[@Loreweavver]

Damn Skippy. I'm not licensed. I can speculate all I want 😂

[@carolbenson6524]

How on earth could she kill her grandson? So sad and upsetting.

[@frisk151]

Try to answer your own question... As. in, what could drive her to kill her grandson?

[@joycampi7233]

I listened to the 911 call & it was so heartbreaking! Is she guilty of murder? Yes!

[@doctorstreamspunk9996]

Sandra had no injuries. She clearly lied when she said she'd been attacked. Asking her husband to go for a walk before the shooting suggests that she'd already planned to do something he would not have approved.

[@ursodermatt8809]

yes, she had no injuries. what else do you clearly know?

[@GB-mu9ue]

She wasn’t attacked. That’s clear.

[@c.r.k.7162]

She could have just called the police herself since he was attempting to steal her car and money

[@loki2240]

And she could've sent him back to his parents long before that.

[@mimax4498]

​@@loki2240or a youth treatment program

[@Neilsowards]

Honestly, I think I would have said, at that point, "Here, take the keys to the car and here's some money. Go and see what you can do with your life." Then he would have left, gotten in trouble, and it would have been out of the grandparents' hands. It would have been in the hands of the system.

[@ursodermatt8809]

i don't think the police is any help at all.

[@laurenhoffman2751]

I don’t think that’s true if he was acting that nuts would grandpa just have left w the dog? Ya I am sure he used drugs but I think she’s exaggerating the behavior stuff. She’s just a psycho. When cops came he’d been shot in the back and she didn’t have a mark on her.

[@jeanbonneau10]

The fact that she went to the bedroom WITH THE GUN tells me her motives right there!

[@victoriajohnson4420]

It tells me that she was very afraid of him.

[@robertgiles9124]

Yeah. the MOTIVE was not to let this threat walk all over her in her own home. Goodbye Brat.

[@osvaldomedina173]

@@robertgiles9124 she confronted him and shoot him in the back...Are you really saying this is the right way of dealing with this? There was any history of him being violent?

[@kina18]

​@@victoriajohnson4420 Then go outside and call the police. Don't go to his room with a gun and continue the argument.

[@1realtruthrightnow742]

This shooting was planed planed planed. She had every intention of following through with her plan to kill him no matter what

[@kambrose1549]

Guns are not a way to deal with your troubles or to argue with grandchildren

[@Kaiverze]

Murica tho...

[@SwimminWitDaFishies]

How do you feel about this? Straight from the book of Mao Every Communist must grasp the truth, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party." Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung, Vol. II, pp. 224-225

[@snowmiaow]

My friend got taken advantage of by her adult grandson. She told him to leave or she was going to shoot him. She didn't have the gun out though. He left.

[@crktritual]

The evidence proves to the contrary

[@DroneStrike1776]

So are drugs and threatening your grandparents.

[@alphaomega1351]

Grandparent's should not have to deal with their children's headaches. 😳

[@stacyflood4319]

EXACTLY!!!

[@loki2240]

She didn't have to. She could've said no, from the beginning. And she could've sent him back to his parents long before she bought a gun and fatally shot him.

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Seriously 🤯

[@Forflipsake]

She was found to be a controlling bully throughout her life. Numerous times arrangements were made for him to go back because of her domineering ways and SHE those options because in her control freak world losing control would be a mark on her character that she spent so many years playing. She showed her true colours. She’s not a frail and kindly lady. She was a life long bully.

[@fruitsnac9088]

Their kids can't care for their own kids bc their parents were shit,duh

[@enterchannelname4542]

My uncle was troubled, and my grandmother shot him six times. He survived, and the police told my grandmother that if he showed up again she should try to aim better. (He was just her son in law.)

[@snaresparkles]

I live 15 minutes away from West Bloomfield (& Farmington Hills). I’m so surprised that I never heard this story.

[@uniquehorn1480]

And I thought MY old German grandma was tough, jeesh.

[@AnAdorableWombat1]

3:49 “I guess she figured that in a crisis, hydration is the key” This is so heartbreaking but that dang comment made me chuckle. RIP Jonathan. Rot Sandra!

[@jahwoo6292]

I don't believe he was attacking her. That's made up...

[@deckard5pegasus673]

She had NO injuries WHATSOEVER. Everything he is listing out in this video is what the psychopath grandma made up to defend murder. Obviously he cannot defend himself being dead. Ironic that the guy in the video tries to sell himself as "professional analyst" but does not do something as simple to clarify these are unsupported allegation with no evidence whatsoever by a convicted murderer.

[@MarioDSLife]

Always keep up your humor, it consistently generates laughter and an interesting day.

[@aarondavis8943]

There is no evidence Jonathan had attacked Sandra that day, or ever, or had ever attacked anyone.

[@LúciaKitten]

Thank you so much for your analysis, Dr. Grande! I appreciate you.

[@GhostShip-iv9rg]

Layne's daughter, Jennifer Hoffman, told Judge Denise Langford Morris: "Do not show mercy. She showed no mercy when she planned, stalked and murdered my son in his bedroom. Sandra Layne is pure evil and if given the opportunity would surely kill again."Apr 18, 2013

[@nixm9093]

Jennifer should have been taking care of her own child if she cared so much and thought her mum was dangerous.

[@rocknmetal4life94]

As someone whos done K2 not really knowing what it actually was, I can not believe anyone would willingly do this shit. It gave me severe paranoia/ anxiety for months and thats just one use. I can see how things got out of control, but the situation is just sad.

[@shawne7228]

She was angry and teaching him a lesson. She provoked him with the gun and then executed him. He's a bad kid and she's a bad person

[@ravenrozeb3790]

Exactly!

[@SuperStella1111]

She's a narcissist. He triggered her core wound.

[@tomjones2348]

Desperate people, so desperate things. This family needed help.

[@ChoppingtonOtter]

Everything can't always be the states (i.e the taxpayer) duty. My child's welfare and correct and loving upbringing is *my* responsibility, no one else's. This is only the families fault.

[@andrewdewit4711]

Grandma: “What we have here is failure to communicate.”

[@Balrog-tf3bg]

“So you get what we had here last week That’s the way he wants it Well he gets it I don’t know I don’t like this anymore than you young men”

[@bonchidude]

This was from a paul newman movie. The warden said that after paul newman's character kept escaping.

[@mikekares-b8q]

​@@Balrog-tf3bgThat Sounds like a Guns and Toeses song ,I don't like it anymore than you do .

[@SelfishFew]

Any "normal" grandparent would rather be dead than kill their own grandchild, no matter the kid's behavior. Some of the comments here siding with her make me feel like the world is full of more sociopaths than not.

[@219cem]

I know, right? 😒

[@andrewmattox1233]

Any "normal" kid doesn't demand that their grandparents give them money and a car. Lol. The kid is probably the sociopath, and never had any consequences growing up. The parents (who ever they are) were probably terrible parents. Granted, I don't think the kid should have been killed. He failed his drug tests, so he would be going to jail. *Grandma is off her rocker.

[@anhars1]

Grandma is evil!! One of the most evil acts one can do!

[@jodybrown4956]

Almost beyond comprehension why are peaple still having children ?life on earth War zone ,What part of end times ,looming Apocalypse do peaple fail to understand ,selfish peaple connecting with wicked spirits how ?pathway mind altering substances. Do drugs shake hands with the devil .

[@PackofNewportsPlease]

Boomers...

[@unmuddywaters4602]

Can you even imagine that while in the middle of getting divorced and taking care of a child with a brain tumor, then getting a phone call saying that your son has been killed by your own mother!!sheesh, poor lady

[@soavemusica]

And your drug-addicted son is cared by your own mother, because...? Poor boy, he just wanted to write poetry, bake cakes for his grandmother, and study to become an engineer.

[@OtisFlint]

@@soavemusica Stop making excuses for this murdering psycho.

[@chikendoodad]

​@@soavemusicaImagine your sibling having a brain tumor and turning to drugs and mischief to cope. Imagine just calling the cops when said unrully teen acts out knowing full well he will go to jail because of a failed piss test. If she was truly afraid why did she tell her husband to walk the dog? If it was self defense why did she keep shooting when he was on the phone? The fact the grandma wasnt injured says premeditation.

[@wrmlm37]

In the moment, she may have considered how things might play out in a few years, should her grandson survive and seek revenge. I am sorry for this outcome.

[@ColletteAileen]

I have a feeling she was never a very nice person. I bet she took some of her behaviors out on her students.

[@ii2bcnii]

"She was examined at the hospital and had no injuries at all" Her: i approached him with a loaded gun after talking to my husband about the failed drug testes and his behavior. He hit kicked me in the stomach and hit me in the head" >she was examined at the hospital and had no such injuries She just decided to shoot him dead.

[@johnjaqua930]

Bath salts and spice aggravate a person with bipolar disorder or mental illness It gives them extreme highs and lows I’ve seen it- person growls at you like an animal, then laughs histerically- Scary thing to see live, in front of you- I feel terrible for the grandparents- both of them.

[@jasonbender2459]

Bath salts are nothing like spice in any way shape or form. Different classes of substances, different mode of action and different side effects profiles.

[@johnjaqua930]

@@jasonbender2459 I’m aware two different substances…. Depending on what else someone is self medicating on. And their personal diagnosis. Both aggravate existing ailments worse

[@Wesley296]

No evidence any of that happened and your anecdotal evidence is worthless.

[@artemismoon7655]

I lean towards thinking her actions may have been more calculated than people are giving her credit for. I am sure the situation was getting to her. I can only imagine how stressed and overwhelmed and hopeless she felt. Like they would never escape dealing with him, things would never get better, and him being gone permanently was her only chance at having peace. Certainly not justifying her actions, but it seems like that could have been her frame of mind at the time. Makes me wonder if perhaps she wanted him out, but Grandpa was letting him stay and she was dealing with the worst of his behavior.

[@Taxthechurch]

I’m from Detroit. When I was younger my brother and I were terrorizing my grandma so she pulled a .22 out on us. She said it wasnt going to kill us just teach us a lesson. Michigan grandmas built different.

[@AB-un4io]

😂 True!

[@andrewmattox1233]

It is the same out in the woods... Country grandmas are the same way.

[@babblingalong7689]

Grannies are old school.

[@peterfazio9306]

Is it unimaginable that these misbehaving kids might attempt to snatch the gun from grandma thinking she would actually use it? And then what do the kids do with the gun now? Honestly, families in the US should avoid ever having firearms in their home.

[@andrewmattox1233]

@@peterfazio9306, In the US, we used to have Rifle teams at schools. Kids on the rifle teams would bring their rifles to school. The problems we see today didn't exist 100 years ago. 1960's is when this stuff started to happen. Multiple generations of child abuse and neglect, and drug addictions is the likely source of the problem.

[@elizabethwarman9028]

Hi Grande, excellent analysis. Be wary with Grannys with guns. As always I learn something new from your videos.

[@willelliott5052]

His parents should not have thrown him as a burden onto the grandmother.

[@joanbaczek2575]

That grandmother abused her own kids and kids think she not gonna abuse her grandchildren?

[@DesireeGonza]

She should have called the police and thrown him out. Then she should have gotten a restraining order.

[@halpyhal]

The 911 call is haunting. I’ll never forget it. That poor boy.

[@freedolphin3077]

She should've just said: "Get out of my house, or I'm calling 911" Damn, whatever happened to those??

[@jan_vyhnak]

Grandmothers. Never fail to feed you.

[@joedirt1965]

He had a choice cookies and no drugs or drugs and lead.

[@thelord7627]

She fed him drugz and sluggz....

[@miaknig3130]

​​@@thelord7627a PB (the atomic symbol for lead for those who haven't had chemistry yet)sandwich of bread and lead.

[@felobatirmoheb4884]

​@@miaknig3130 Pb, it's one element.

[@miaknig3130]

@@felobatirmoheb4884 lol

[@wrmlm37]

@3:49 Seriously though, sometimes, in a crisis, hydration IS key, so...:) TY Dr. G.

[@restingsmirkface]

She asked her husband to leave, then approached her grandson's private room WITH HER GUN. The grandmother escalated the situation.

[@twilightgardenspresentatio6384]

The grandmother held her legal gun in her home and used it after being kicked and punched by a man who was a family member She fired in self defense. He could have left.

[@lucianotapia840]

​@twilightgardenspresentatio6384 im sorry but going up to him after he then runs away to call the police for help to shoot him again, is clearly not self defense.

[@xvdifug]

@@lucianotapia840 Some may call it mercy.

[@HumanimalChannel]

She wanted him out of her life he probably made their lives HELL and she saw no end to it.

[@PackofNewportsPlease]

​@@HumanimalChannelkind of contradicts the claim that she was afraid her husband would kick him out, huh?

[@CitoyenDuMondeSocrates]

Thanks for the video sir.

[@Swansong321]

He shouldn't have been left in her care...she's a vulnerable elderly lady..it was too much for her to cope with..I'm sure this was out of her usual good character...tragic events

[@queenofscots839]

She’s a wicked witch

[@Sarahopal]

There was a little girl at the park yesterday when I took my girls. She was growling, blocking the slide and trying to punch my girls. I went to figure out who her parents were so they could help. This little old lady stands up. I am not exaggerating, she was 85 years old easily. Could barely walk, barely see, shuffled with a cane. It broke my heart. She felt awful but couldn't do much. Her husband was surprisingly spry for his age but still. She said this was her great granddaughter and she had raised her mother too. She seemed nice. But she had raised the last couple generations of women who lost their kids so..... 🤷‍♀️

[@garygardner-j3f]

Well said, I was trying to think of how to say it myself

[@loki2240]

​@@Sarahopal- My aunt got pregnant and married young. She only had the one child, but she and my uncle (her husband) ended up doing a lot to raise my biological uncle's 2 kids - and then they did even more to raise the 3 kids of 1 of those kids (their niece). They were also doing a lot to raise the child of one of the great neices they helped raise. But they had made a point to scale back some, including because they had 2 grandchildren they wanted to spend time with. And then my uncle passed away this past December. He was an awesome uncle, and he was like a father to 3 generations of other people's kids (who he wasn't related to biologically).

[@lv7603]

Yeah definitely.

[@jenniferchin429]

I love your sense of humor 😊

[@Mandrake42]

This is a ruthless one. Just so calculated and cold blooded and honestly the kid didn't even seem so bad, sure he wasn't a saint, but hunted down and murdered by his own grandmother? Just utterly chilling. There was a villain here. And it wasn't the grandson. I absolutely guarantee she still thinks she is the hero. She meticulously planned this, practiced with the weapon well before the day of the murder, she then used her newfound weapon skills executed him as though he was an animal. Which is obviously the best way to deal with a teen who is having issues. She was not scared of her life. She had the weapon. She had the control. She was the one in charge, and she hunted him like an animal and soullessly executed him despite him begging for her to stop. Its just chilling. That she has such overwhelming and widespread support in the local town is worrisome and if I was the cops I would definitely be looking into the deaths of troubled teens in the area. Murder seems to be the way locals deal with these kids. Doctor Grande is way off on this one. The kid did not deserve to die. There is no evidence that he actually attacker her but her word and she has already proven herself dishonest. Even if he did, Dr Grande ignores the fact that the kid was unarmed and ALSO has a right to act in self defence when someone is pointing a gun at him. I don't think attacked her at all and the medical evidence backs this up. I think he just wouldn't listen and so she took him out.

[@loiskondo8349]

Wow this is really different. I can’t imagine killing one of my grandchildren. Thank you Dr. Grande for your careful analysis of this case.

[@GenXfrom75]

She shot him, incapacitated him, but then came back and shot him some more. 🙄 That is not self defense.

[@bmartino9]

As always, I enjoyed your analysis. I respect your opinion and will continue to follow you and watch your videos. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@noregrets7469]

She killed her grandson and she had no legal right on her side.

[@lisamariemcnicholas5960]

OMG!!! Your song at the end honestly made me LOL! I absolutely love your sense of humor!

[@blueridgeocean]

She claimed he kicked her, but no injuries were found! Total lawyer bs

[@loki2240]

Yeah, the way that Dr. Grande told the story, it sounded like that claim wasn't made until after she met with her attorney.

[@vicvega3614]

Isnt there a 911 recording where hes screaming and she keeps shooting him? Case closed, crazy old b

[@saras123]

Dr Grande usually doesn’t make baseless assumptions so I don’t know where he got the “he attacked her” from

[@computeraidedyami]

she is strong

[@SwimminWitDaFishies]

Physical injuries, no, but what about mental injury? Do not discount that

[@katrinashostakovich3607]

Dr. G!!! You're so fascinating. Thanks for the video, its always nice to see ya 😊

[@billy4395]

I grew up with my grandpa was a troubled teen never brought trouble to grandpa never stole ( from him) he was there for me until he died I blame both parties

[@jessicawut]

I didn’t realize this case was going to be so close to home. When you brought up the guy in Farmington Hills who attacked his family with a baseball bat I was shocked, because I live here and I remember when that happened. The Cipriano family. I didn’t even hear about this happening just one city over. These synthetic drugs coming out of China are so insanely dangerous/:

[@camsonnenberg4399]

The boy's conduct may have been genetic.

[@reneegardner2286]

Not might be it is. Likely personality disorders running through that family

[@MrSeanman30]

Yup. Coming from the crazy grandmother down to his parents and then him, just for granny to take him out.

[@scriptblender2660]

It's never just genetics.

[@reneegardner2286]

@@scriptblender2660 part nature part nurture

[@BlueSparkshine]

​@@scriptblender2660 it's almost all genetics

[@kalikeleka]

I think that most people don't know what it is like to live in a home with a Jonathon. I'm not excusing Sandra, but to live in constant tension, constant worry, constant fear, never knowing what will happen next, wears down a person. He may not have been abusive at that time, but when you live with that hanging over your head, sometimes you just want to get away, you just want it to end. As an older woman, I'm sure she felt vulnerable with him around, and nobody should have to live that way in their own home. There were much better ways to handle it, but when you are living with that kind of stress day after day, it can be hard to stay rational. Very tragic, but ultimately, she should never have had to live with him in her home.

[@ChrisMillerCrazyHouse]

I remember her episode on Deadly Women . I think it was actually called Granny’s With Guns or something to that effect

[@Quantumtrix]

I see people like this boy everyday. I seen them expend everything around them and eventually ended up on KZbin.

[@EricDodsonLectures]

It's strange that we expect people who find themselves in life & death situations to behave in cool, rationally defensible ways, and with a high degree of moral clarity. In reality, life & death struggles are usually very chaotic and irrational.

[@JaegerDives]

This is the most sensical comment among the bunch.

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@JaegerDives maybe your answer is nonsensical? are you talking out of experience? when you were in a life and death struggle? probably not. i thought so

[@turtlejeepjen314]

1:54. don’t do drugs folks.

[@marcjohn9404]

This reminds me of the Byron Smith case, where he murdered a couple of teenagers in his basement because they'd been breaking in and stealing from him. Not exactly the same, but both cases where restraint could have allowed everyone to still be alive/not in prison. On one hand, in both cases, I really feel bad for the kids who died, and their families that loved them, even if they were involved in some really bad and dangerous stuff. On the other hand, FAFO. You do stupid stuff, you might pay the ultimate price. You can't walk around in life on eggshells, but if you continuously do the wrong things in life, and you disrespect people, and you make people feel threatened, stuff like that can catch up. There's violent people out there too.

[@Mpxyzm2by]

What a sad case. This poor woman, and that poor boy

[@ericquinn8578]

“Incarceration avoidance plan”. Dr. Grande never fails with the wordsmithing.